Redo Objectives is surely invalidating, because you are as the result of the Objectives orientated in Present Time .. but it doesn’t say two things a) how long is Present Time, and b) in which Present Time I should be orientated .. there are more than one ..

Following, if someone found out that he can confront and look to the environment, and kicked out some agreement not to do so .. which seems as the only problem in regard to the Objectives .. than he needs no redo for the same process .. it is simple .. if you go above you will expand Present Time from a second, a day, a week, a year, a lifetime, being in this universe, being there et all ..

I have seen an OT V who came every day in the church for checking his Ruds .. did not understand, because why he did it not himself .. it is part of his present time .. so I think that there are people around who do not know where there are (Confusion) ..

Confusion is claimed as an ethics Condition .. but nobody found ever out that Confusion is a Case Condition .. naturally it is, because you can pick it up in every Present Time .. has nothing to do with anything else .. you need only disorder ..

Sometimes I thought that Scientology gives some order (positive) and at the same time some disorder (negative) .. so it creates a Dichotomie and Action .. but it has to has run down in a confusion .. probably the primary goal in all this Scientology ..

Once I thought that LRH will run down some purposes of others .. will create his own purpose as the only purpose .. but his purpose is to eradicate your mind .. but after all, your mind is yourself .. nothing else there who can create it ..

Back in the “bad ol'” days we used to tell people that we were “expanding” their grades if we found they’d been quickied or bypassed so they wouldn’t feel invalidated.

I mean the original OT IV rundown was designed to handle this.

Yet it seems that all they do over there is invalidate cases which is basically suppressive.

So on, I came not higher on the Bridge than Objectives .. could never grasp what I could or should do with this mind processes .. I have a lot of imagination .. but audit this as case made me more unhappy than happy ..

So on, my Objectives were a well done cycle, but it belongs also to my well auditor who has let me find out that I am my mind myself .. there is no mind et all .. it is always me .. so on it became impossible to handle my mind with processes and Rundowns .. because it did never handle anything about me .. my formal Question was always: do you want me as a Magican .. and if, you should ask other questions .. made never progres about ..

Redo Objectives and Purif is maybe good idea, because I have never seen a Scientologist who has grasped what he did with his mind processes .. foremost to all their blame always others for failure .. never reflect that they had to agree first .. and it is impossible to become OT which such stuff in mind .. nearly totalytity impossible ..

I stay since 25 years with some OT V and OT VII .. all of them have trouble to be OT .. and I think after all .. the church has trouble to get out an real OT .. it looks to me as the basic problem of all LRH works .. he did not found the clue how to bring a thetan in powers .. he made it very complicated to fish out a thetan who can do what he wants .. so you will never see an OT if everything goes more complicatet ..

Redo Objectives is only an attempt to redo all auditing .. also a start again purpose .. but it will not work .. there will be no OT at the end of processes .. does no matter how often he repeats the same process .. never starting the process is closer to OT .. but this is not in realm of current Scientology .. not yet .. surely not ..

Having little-to-no experience with ex-Scientologists/independent Scientologists, I guess my relationship to my own 10+ involvement is veiled in a “don’t ask, don’t tell,” state. I’ve been inactive for 5 years and only very recently started the process of unpacking my experiences, my observations & my discontent.

However, like Penny, Ty was not only my FSM but my ENTIRE family’s FSM. For over a decade he was almost a distant but beloved member of our family, even officiating my sisters wedding. He is a kind, compassionate individual who is filled with humanity. I think he believes in Scientology for real reasons, reasons many independent Scientologsts claim themselves.

I know for a fact Ty is not merely consumed with money, though I wouldn’t be surprised if he has made a great deal less of it in recent years. I say this because as I am reading through-I sense a general lack of dignity given to individuals who have not made the same conclusions regarding church – and the immediate speculation that it’s because of some monetary gain. Some of the best, hardest scientologists I know are not rich. Most of the are not in the Sea Org. Anyone who has ever devoted any time to the church knows that its ability to isolate even it’s unorthodox members & effectively persuade them to refrain from reading anything critical is uncanny. Unparalleled, too, perhaps.

Ty is a soft-spoken man who loves his dogs & his church. Have we really earned the right to laugh at him for that? Isn’t that why we are here? Because we loved it too; so much that what forced us to leave still haunts us?

Best,

“For those of you who have wanted to do it, either as a set-up for Superpower, or because you have heard of the wins other OT’s are having on it at Flag or just because it indicates to you personally, this could make the logistics of doing so much easier.”

Longest, most convoluted run on sentence ever.
That is all.

Thanks for the update Mike.

I’m glad to read that he is doing well 🙂

Ivan is in Los Angeles with Mary Jo Leavitt. He is in touch with a lot of former church members (self included) and is doing well.

Jane,

To answer your question about Ivan’s whereabouts or what he is doing.

I have no idea.

As I wrote he made a brief cameo appearance on Marty’s blog sometime back.

What he’s doing now is anyone’s guess ‘cept for those people who know him personally.

Anyhoo.

Wherever Ivan is I wish him well.

Not to get off thread here much, but go to Tony Ortega’s site to read the excellent interview with actor Christian Stolte. Here is a little taste of it:

“My “opinion” of Scientology can’t be dismissed, because it isn’t even an
opinion. It’s a massive compilation of documented crimes.”

Yowzer!