Mike Rinder's Blog
Something Can Be Done About It
March 15, 2019 By CW Guy 85 Comments
Xenu's Son says
Thanks, RB for showing how the IQ of the last still-inns is inexorably moving to room temperature.
Truer words were never spoken!
Keep drinking ladies, turn off the phone, lock your doors and Google Scientology.
Tom Cruise Is David Miscavige’s Bitch says
When is Regraded Being going to up their game and do a series starring Tom Cruise and David Miscavige, John Travolta and Ron Miscavige, etc. ? I’ll start framing these and hanging them on the wall of Xenu’s cave under the mountain. ?
Save Teegeeack! says
While you are using your “Super Powers” to lift up that mountain, do you think you might ever have an accident and drop it on his tiny head?
If that could happen, I think it should happen sooner rather than later. Otherwise, he may shrink even more – to the point – where he becomes clear and turns invisible. If that ever happens, his disembodied voice would squeak, “I am your leader. I see all. I hear all. I know all and I beat up on all of you dumbfucks too! All hail your mighty leader …… Me! …… Big Big Dave! From now on …… you all shall address me as “Big Dave”. But please please please … Don’t step on me. OK?
It may not be such a good thing for him to become clear because if he ever did, people would be able to see right through him and understand all the deceitful bullshit and that would be a very black day indeed. But, you know what? That just could be the only way black(s) could ever become a part of The Scam.
So, maybe you should wait ’til Martin Luther King Day?
jere lull (38years recovering) says
I’ve heard tell that saunas are a traditional after-binge hangover remedy in Finland, which makes the purif an extremely expensive place for sweating it off. Didn’t do squat for me back in ’79-’80 as the only thing I had to sweat out was the previous Xmas or New Year’s celebrations at the FH. JUST as efficacious was lying out by the pool or on the beach, both places where it was OK to catch a catnap, as long as you had someone to wake you up before you got too burnt.
Saunas are marvelous. There’s nothing like relaxing in a hot sauna and getting all your muscles totally warmed thru and your skin flushed and THEN taking an icy cold shower. Fantastic for the circulation. I don’t have access to a sauna so instead every morning I take a very hot shower and finish off with icy cold. (Don’t do this if you have heart trouble or high blood pressure.)
That said, for the cost of the Purif (about 5K, last I heard) you can have your own sauna installed.
I man I dated a while back lived in a small 1 bedroom apartment, was addicted to saunas, and so had a sauna installed right in his living room!
Hey, whatever floats your boat. I live for hydrotherapy.
Kat LaRue says
does the cult require members to do a physical before this ritual? The health benefits are true, but the hazards are also very real. Some people should not be doing this for legitimate health problems, but I don’t see scientology requiring a doctors note- they just want their 5,000.00. I guess the deaths at arrowhead didn’t turn the lightbulb on.
I’ve shot this sort of nonsense down in flames some while ago when there was a “discussion” about Niacin and the Purif. I used to administer the Purif when I was on staff so I know what I am talking about, unlike the guessing, “imagined” and made-up scare-mongering nonsense posted above.
it is a proven medical fact that saunas may be beneficial for some. It is also proven medical fact that some people should avoid saunas because of the possibility that it could KILL them. Anyone with heart/cardiovascular issues should avoid a sauna unless cleared by a doctor. Heat my also interfere with prescription medications, and may cause severe dehydration if not closely monitored.
There is no argument that counters these simple facts.
Oh! Here we go again. So what you’ve said is the equivalent of “if you cross the road, you should look out for cars.” Thank you for that piece of blindingly enlightening information. Just read the many HCOBs on the Purif, it is all there contained before you state the obvious again.
No Fool. I was also trained to deliver the purif. The HCOBs do NOT contain even a 1/10 of the warnings they should regarding the medical dangers. The R/D as Hubturd designed it can seriously harm even healthy people.
That you were informed on the scientific medical FACTS regarding this on an earlier thread yet continue to push this quackery as safe shows that you are an insane criminal. De fact and de jure.
I think if Dave COB is reading this he should get the Org concerned where Wynski was supervising the Purif to FES the folders.
FP, you’ve administered what, a few dozen Purifs? That doesn’t make you an expert on the administration, and possible dangers, of Niacin – at least not by real world standards.
Even if say you’d administered 100, and if the purif caused significant harm to 1 in every 500 people who did it and killed one of out every 5,000 (probably in the ballpark, based on reports*), you’d only have had a 1-in-5 or less chance of encountering such cases yourself (not to mention the factor in Scientology, that problems might have been hidden from you), and yet that would be an unacceptable rate of adverse outcomes in the big picture (well, maybe not to Hubbard, who said he would rather have people dead). That’s the problem with your – and Scientology’s – anecdotalism versus actual science, you haven’t really observed enough, or rigorously enough, to be making the sort of conclusions that you think you can, particularly when people’s mental and physical health and well-being are at risk.
Sometimes I think those who continue to believe in Scientology, are mostly just the ones who happen to have been lucky enough to have lived charmed lives, and not had anything of the possible really bad things happen to them. Foolproof, I think even you might agree with something similar when it comes to remaining CofS members – those who are still in, just haven’t (yet) a bad enough run-in with the organization’s underlying abuses and injustices, and inability to deliver, to grasp the bigger picture.
* 6 deaths and numerous severe non-fatal outcomes listed just at these incomplete sources, when probably no more than about 30,000-50,000 people have ever done the purif: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Purification_Rundown#Adverse_outcomes
This is about the same level of information presentation as saying “100 people die every day from prescription medication overdose – so therefore all medicines, doctors and drug stores should be banned”. In fact probably much more than 100 people are killed every day by so doing. Scores (? – again probably much more) are killed every day by doctors messing up. As for psychiatry they probably kill scores every day as well. So when you state “all doctors should be banned” and “all psychiatrists should be banned”, then you might have a point. But of course all you are interested in is trying to denigrate Scientology.
Cue Mike now with a “whataboutism” comment – well, ok, what about it then Mike? Why don’t you create a blog on psychiatry who kill dozens EVERY DAY! Never mind the MDs who probably run into 100s. Or Big Pharma?
As for attacking Narconon, which is often done here just because of the Scientology connection, who else is actually doing something in this dangerous field of drug addiction? At least they are trying with some good degree of success.
In all the several hundred Purifs I administered we had 1 minor problem because a dude was not lining his stomach as prescribed. The same problem as is with medications “do not exceed the stated dose”. I smacked him in the kisser like Mike used to do and the problem was solved (joking here for those who literally understand).
No one here tries to denigrate Scientology- it does it all on its own.
Rather a lame reply again eh? So what is your agenda then, psychologist? “No one here tries to denigrate Scientology”, er, have you read the comments and articles here or are you only concerned with your own?
FP, my illustration by an example of statistics and some evidence of adverse outcomes from the purif, of the shortcomings of your sort of andecdotalism, is by no means comparable to the sort of whataboutism that you attempted to respond with. Any discussion about such a pseudo-scientific subject has problems with the “level of information presentation” because of the lack of proper empirical information about the subject itself, and the rhetorical tactics that true believers resort to.
And are you really unaware that Narconon is an insignificant player when it comes to drug treatment? Have you really never heard of the famous Betty Ford Clinic – which, now merged with the Hazeldon Foundation, is easily 10 times the size of Narconon worldwide? Or the renowned Mayo Clinic’s Addiction Program, which treats more people at one site, than all of Narconon? And the National Institute for Drug Abuse (NIDA) has a budget of over a billion dollars a year, most of it spent supporting research initiatives?
I assume even you wouldn’t defend Narconon’s obvious false claims of 70-100% success rates. Like Scientology – the CofS and independents – it wouldn’t be failing and shrinking if it really had something that extraordinary to offer the world, would it? The best information available points to a Narconon success rate of 6.6.%*, compared to an average of 10% among programs. You don’t really have any clue as to whether Narconon “doing something” worthwhile, or is actually hurting people by diverting them from more effective modern, evidence-based treatments, do you? Narconon, which is withering on the vine of its own shortcomings failures, would be long gone if it weren’t propped up by Scientology for ideological reasons.*
As for the purif outside the context of Narconon, it’s a false equivalency to compare it to medical and psychological interventions, many of which are for severe and even life-threatening conditions, when it only claims to address “spiritual well-being.” For medical procedures that are elective and cosmetic, an acceptable rate of fatalities is about 1 in 10,000, and between cases filed with authorities (the Portland, OR case that Scientology settled out of court, and 2 deaths in Italy) plus unofficial reports, the purif rate is almost certainly higher than that.
* “Scientology’s other groups had to prop up Narconon”: https://scientologymoneyproject.com/2016/08/19/new-scientology-financial-disclosures-reflect-the-dire-state-of-its-chief-drug-rehab/
And it’s failed financially, and closed entirely, in one country – Some countries force Scientology to open the books: Here’s one report on how bad business is https://tonyortega.org/2018/08/29/some-countries-force-scientology-to-open-the-books-heres-one-report-on-how-bad-business-is/
** Swedish study analysis reported in English at https://www.northpointrecovery.com/blog/explained-narconon-connection-scientology/ at the end of the section “How Successful Is the Narconon Program?”
Yes Kat, they are required to get one from an MD. ALWAYS being sent to a cult MD if one is available). However, per the FDA the amounts of some of the vitamins given are at dangerous, life threatening levels. Niacin being one of them. So, one can be in good health and still die on that program or get permanently damaged.
That is absolutely an issue as well. Everything in moderation is something this crazy cult apparently never heard of. Now I’m reading about someone attempting to run down another person with a car at Miscavige order…that’s getting too crazy to ignore!
Kat, David MissCabbage learned from an even more evil person. Hubbard.
When Hubbard’s earlier wife was threatening to expose his insanity he kidnapped their infant daughter, flew her to Cuba (before Castro) and threatened to kill her and feed her to the sharks if his wife didn’t do what he wanted.
Yes, when yet another point of yours is blunted you can always move on to another subject or two, or three, to deflect attention from your lack of knowledge. A “cult expert”, even a budding one, has got to really know his/her stuff, well, somewhat anyway
Mike Rinder says
Your “logic” is horribly flawed FP.
It’s the sort of circular logic that conspiracy theorists and flat-earthers use.
“You don’t really know the facts or understand what WE understand. You are uninformed of the amazing information we have. So you are in no position to comment about it.”
It keeps skeptics and facts at bay (at least in your mind) because you can simply tell yourself that it is perfectly logical to reject anything presented to you if it doesn’t fit your worldview.
You should talk to a flat-earther or a holocaust denier or a fundamentalist christian sometime. But I am sure the result would be that you would be completely sure they were fools and that you remain one of the smartest people in the world.
Ah well, I keep trying.
You are waffling Mike. Wynski does the same as Kat. So the presumed negative of the MD is invalidated so now we move on to the “dangers of Niacin” – which is another load of hogwash as you know. (Peacemaker will now spend hours desperately digging up 1 case where someone was allergic to it or whatever story can be presented to the world (well, here anyway) as “proof”.)
Remember the little tete-a-tete about the Barley Formula? Same principle – dudes start ranting about it until I provided the link that shut them all up where Hubbard was recommending breast feeding way back in 1952.
FP, you’re not blunting or invalidating anything, others just get tired of your endless circular arguments and fallacious argumentation, and give up. It’s indeed like dealing with a flat-earther or other conspiracy theorist – probably because Scientology’s “space opera” conspiracy theories underlie your rationalizations.
I can spend 5 minutes and come up with accounts of multiple deaths and all manner of adverse consequences from the purif, including from individuals who themselves suffered long-term health problems afterwards, which is just the tip of the iceberg. Scientology and Narconon don’t provide any proper accounting of such adverse outcomes, like responsible programs and institutions do, so we only know that they have a problem that they feel the need to hide. Even the FASE studies of the early 1980s (undertaken because Scientology recognized that successful research would provide a powerful tool for convincing the world), stated in one of the papers that the rate of adverse reactions was about 3%*
Have you ever been on an airplane that crashed? Presumably, not. Does that mean that airplanes don’t crash? Obviously, not. Your limited personal experience is inadequate to accurately assess or understand the risks. If you claim to have seen only one case of problems, and Scientology’s own research admits a rate of 3%, your reported experience obviously doesn’t reflect reality.
You don’t have concrete proof of anything you claim, or believe – the research, and science, aren’t there. Instead, you’re accustomed to arguing based on theories and anecdotes, the same as other true believers, and the adherents of various sorts of pseudo-science. So let’s get down to the real-world litmus test: How do you explain the longstanding failure of Scientology and the “tech” to produce results that impress anyone other than true believers? Why isn’t Scientology – including the independents – or Narconon, taking the world by storm, and instead failing and on a trajectory towards extinction? If Scientology could produce “clears” and “OTs,” then shouldn’t it have an outsized representation among the world’s most recognized and admired people (as some religious and ethnic groups, do)? If Narconon works so well, then shouldn’t it be growing by leaps and bounds due to popular demand for a solution to the scourge of drug addiction – and have been long ago proved for the world, in FASE’s attempts at research?
Is what you really believe – and hesitate to openly admit, because you know it sounds so farcical – that Scientology is somehow successful, but that is just being suppressed by a vast conspiracy, of space-opera “psychs” or whatever?
* Scientology’s studies also had to abandon Hubbard’s premise that drugs are stored in fat cells, and actually disproved his claim that toxins are sweated out – if the purif does anything, it just stimulates their excretion in bodily waste, as other research shows
Now that you mentioned it, I never recall Hubbard using the word: MODERATION. It is not in the Tech dictionary (1970s) so it was not in Hubbard’s universe.
One could argue Hubbard was immoderate in all things.
Wynski, is it always an actual MD? I thought they now used their pseudo-medical practitioner members like chiropractors “doctors” (DC) for things like that, since they no longer seem to be able to sell Scientology to the sort of people with the rigorous thinking abilities necessary to become an MD or other professional with scientific or technical training requirements.
It will vary by State because laws vary on who can deliver a licensed physical so that the Org can be held legally harmless over the person dying while on the program due to health. In some States it could be a D.C. or maybe a Nurse Practitioner. Check State laws.
The point was that they use a Cult member whenever possible to give the legal medical OK. Not what medical license each State requires to do so.
When I did the purif, we had to do several days in a public sauna because the org’s sauna needed repair. There were several non-scientolgists in there with us to sweat out alcohol. I was told that it worked wonders. I was new in scientology at the time and it validated the process for me at the time.
My husbands family is from North Dakota. First time I went to the family farm we did a LOT of drinking. We would sit in this little dive bar and play dice with all 10 people who lived in the town, sometimes even at the same time lol. The first time he turned to me and said “I’ll be back in a bit, I’m gonna go take a bath with the guys” I asked him if there was something he forgot to tell me?. But then I learned if they were drinking all day they would take a sauna in the afternoon to sweat it out and keep going. When the guys came back then the girls would go, aka me and the bar tender, she would be just as drunk as us lol
I’ve looked into the subject, and the scientific truth is that the body’s main mechanism for eliminating toxins, is urination. If saunas do much good in that regard, it’s mostly because in response to the heat, most people drink lots of liquids – which triggers that primary flushing mechanism.
A lot of pseudoscience – and marketing scams – have to do with similar confusions about the actual causes of effects (or just involve the placebo effect). When I was a teen, my mother bought me an acne treatment that you had to put on, let dry, and then scrub off, which took a lot of work – I finally figured out that probably all it was really doing, was forcing me to do all the face scrubbing I should have been doing anyway.
No, You Can’t Sweat Out Toxins
“Back to that grain of truth: Small amounts of heavy metals and BPA from plastics do make their way into sweat, because these pollutants dissolve more readily in water. But there are more effective ways to remove high levels of metals from the blood, such as chelation therapy. And you pass more BPA out of your body in urine than in sweat.”
“Sweating definitely won’t help clear the body of mercury or other metals, according to Donald Smith, a professor of environmental toxicology at UC Santa Cruz, who studies treatments for metal poisoning. Almost all toxic metals in the body are excreted through urine or feces, he says. And less than 1% are lost through sweat. In other words, according to Smith, you’ll do far more detoxifying in the bathroom than you ever could in a sauna.”
Seems a bit “off” that the bubble-dweller would use the term preferred by pro-Cannabis folks and not ‘weed’ or ‘ marijuana’, which are outdated and no long in style it seems.
Meanwhile, Cannabis and alcohol are two of the few substances which the Purif MIGHT sweat out of the system. NEITHER is stored in fat cells, and heat does nothing to dissolve fat (or Tubby might have wound up quite a bit less tubby, which might have been an improvement.
Old Surfer Dude says
I’m sorry, but, did you mention cannabis? Just wondering you understand. Just wondering.
Weed gummies and internet entheta, perfect combination!
Unfortunately I suspect they will end up ratting each other out to Ethics after the buzz wears off.
Major upgrade in Statuses expected.
Ms. B. Haven says
Lady in red sez:
“Do you know if it’s mostly WOGs talking about us or is it true that a lot of ex-Scientologists are saying bad things about the church?”
How about both. Both groups are saying lots of bad stuff about the cult and they’re just pointing out the obvious. Occasionally some fool will drop in to defend by attacking and trolling but they can never come up with anything but indefensible drivel to try and lend credence to their cult and it’s con man founder.
‘Lady in red sez:
“Do you know if it’s mostly WOGs talking about us or is it true that a lot of ex-Scientologists are saying bad things about the church?”
Doesn’t matter, as they’re BOTH simply discussing the TRUTH about scn, which is like wolf bane to scientologists; can’t be combatted
“Don’t ever let them make you disconnect from your mother. Ever.”
“I had to divorce Ted last year because he wouldn’t stop look at…”
Brilliant that these two lines were spoken by the same character, one after the other. RB, were you laughing or crying when you wrote that down?
Midwestern SP says
Wow RB – you are so good at this. I am an ex member lurking on the fringes of the internet. Thought I would pipe in and thank you for making me laugh each week. I loved this one. I am noticing a lot of divorces between Scientologists, especially in the past 5 years. A good friend of mine got a divorce because the 2-D Scientologist kept “donating” money every time he/she did a service without his/her permission. He/she could not stand it any more and told them to stop donating their money – they were going broke. Scientologist divorced the other because they were not “scientological enough”. WTF? not “Scientological enough”. Wow! I suppose the high pressure criminal regging and breaking up families due to financial ruin has been going on forever within Scientology but I am seeing divorce stats shoot through the ceiling lately. There are several other people from our tiny Org divorced over the past 4 – 5 years. The 3rd party IS Scientology.
I would bet that a fairly large portion of the divorces were due to one or the other looking into the cult and waking up, while the other refused to believe. Its really sad, and is yet another way this cult breaks up families. Isn’t one of their touchpoints the way to have a happy family and marriage? I wonder what the stats are doing to that little program…
No, no, I’ve heard that it is mostly psychologists who tell their patients to sleep around and even sleep with their counselor! I wonder what those stats are…
HGC10:”The 3rd party IS Scientology.”
SO true, even ‘back in the day’. ANYthing is justified in the eternal quest of stats.
I Yawnalot says
Oh yes, the money grubbing treadmill of $cientology… nothing ceases to make to keep the nausea out of being reminded of it! Well… I guess a couple of ‘gummies’ might help in the short term. Good one RB.
“I found that they only make you disconnect from people who might impede your ability to contribute to scientology.” And there you have it.
Damn! You beat me to it, Valerie! But, yes, that truly is the way it is. Hand over your money now. Right now!
You beat me to it, Valerie.
Am I cut off?
@aqua and OSD you are both In mynwill don’t worry. The executor has been directed to divide my bottomless pit of debt between the two of you equally. A guarantee that no scientology reg will ever come sniffing around your door.
Is that why the ‘famous’ people don’t have to follow the same rules? The fact that they can contribute money and status (fame) probably exempts them from some/most of the ridiculousness. I imagine Cruise probably chose to disconnect on his own and wasn’t required to (the asshole pantywaist that he is)
And.. two more on the way out.
That’s how things roll these days. Deal with it.
(Corn on the COB): What the fuck is going on here!? Where’s my bottle? Fuck! Where is it??? I need a drink now! Do you understand what I’m saying??? Fuck me! I have to do everything myself! Everything!!! Fuck this shit! I’m going back to sleep. If ANYONE wakes me up, they’ll in the RPF for a long fucking time!
I do this when I visit NYC….keep maybe $20 to $30 in $5 & $1 bills in a secondary wallet…maybe a bus pass but NOTHING WITH PERSONAL INFORMATION ON IT…the “other cash” is secreted on my person.
If someone wants your car keys..TOSS THEM as far away from you as you can. I also walk with the “sharp end” of the ignition key pointed outward to “stab” someone who may try to harm me. Do NOT wear ANY jewelry….gold or silver….it draws attention to you.
A purse with a strap slung over the should is easy grab for someone riding by on a bicycle…they’ll rip it off your shoulder & pull you to the ground to steal/rob it from you.
If & when I am able to venture back to 46th St in NYC I will request some cards to distribute. My small standing room only favorite Pizza Parlor is basically right next door.
Thanks for the advice! Im planning on trying to follow some of the sea-org peeps to where ever they are staying to see if I can leave the cards around there. I cant imaging it will be in the really bad sections of DC, but you never know. I lived in mid-town Atlanta while I was working for Emory, so I know some tricks. I also worked for the federal prison system while I was doing my masters in forensic psychology. Keep your fingers crossed that someone gets one of the cards and leaves- if that happens, it will be worth the trouble!
J. Mark says
The D.C. Scientology org is on the edge of Dupont Circle, which is a nice area with a large gay population. The crime rate there is low.
cool! Thanks J. Mark. I guess I can leave my ninja moves at home!
Oh Darn! I can’t edit my previous posts and so I want to add something. Upon re-reading my previous post, it sounds goofy – as if the reason I don’t want anything bad to happen to you is because I would miss your posts. I would hate for anything bad to happen to you or anyone else who posts here because you all are dear people and I feel like we all are soldiers fighting in this war against The Scam. I feel a kinship with all of you and I would hate for anything bad to happen to any of you. Honest!
I’m very sorry if I have been “spamming” you today with so many posts. But I really wanted to say something nice to Kat because she is such a terrific tiger. I’ve previously called Leah “the Lionhearted” and Kat strikes me as a good pairing with Leah because she strikes me as a Tigretss type of lady.
Tat is probably the nicest thing anyone has said to me! Much thanks. All things being equal, I think of everyone here as a fighter.
*that- Im still having issues with posting before editing!!! lol
OMG! You couldn’t make it up! Oodles, loads, mounds and mountains of gushing and fawning praise being swapped here! Wonderful! Amazing! Mike – why don’t you invite Kat on to the A-E program – she’s obviously lining herself up with a new career as a “TV cult expert” and it may stop her monopolizing the contents section!
Agnes Black says
Dude, it’s kinda obvious Kat is one of the folks watching the blog while Mike is on a cruise. Are you THAT jealous someone besides you is getting attention. That’s the puffery and ego you get from patterning yourself after a narcissist, and degraded being LRH. Shouldn’t a “big being” not care about minute details such as this? There was nothing, and I mean nothing, about LRH that was realistic or humble.
And please tell me why you’re following said degraded being?
She’s “watching the blog” is she? Funny, but her volume of posting was also enormous before Mike went on the Titanic (waste your time and check it out) so your little fawning theory seems to be radically flawed. Still, when she becomes a renowned “cult expert” you can get her autograph – after all – what is left for a psychologist to have as a “real” job apart from “cult expert”?
Interesting. The name of the town in the above story is “New Hope”. The first time I saw that, I thought it said, “No Hope” and I was reminded of the terrific 1995 film “To Die For” starring Nicole Kidman. That was set in a town named “Little Hope” (I think).
Thank goodness Nicole finally escaped The Scam. That was not easy, since there was no Aftermath Foundation at that time. So, good on you, Nicole! Besides which, Nicole is a great actor. If you ever get the chance to see this film, I bet you will really enjoy it. I know that I sure did.
That movie is based on a true story- I enjoyed it immensely! And Im glad she escaped, but she paid a pretty steep price since her two children stayed.
Roger Larsson says
If people can’t be killed off with fears or money they can’t be controled. Control is sanity. Insanity is freedom. KRC is to report outpoints. KRI is to have a blind eye.
I’m headed for a conference in DC in the next few weeks and will be taking some aftermath foundation cards to place around the org there. can anyone tell me where there are good locations that get heavy business from visiting sea-orgs or members? I beleive they have several sites that are located there, but I’m not familiar enough with the group to know where they go.
The Org is at the corner of 16th St NW and P St NW. That would be your best option. There are a few restaurants on P that may let you leave cards, but I have no idea where the scilons do their business. You see them go in the org, you see them come out, but they get in cars and go wherever. Never seen any (in uniform) in/around Dupont Circle neighborhood.
The old org is now the OSA/National Affairs office. That is at R St NW and 20th St NW. You’ll be hard pressed to ever see anyone in it, or around it, that are Scilons. And they are all OSA, so that’ll be a harder nut to crack. There are tons of restaurants and shops on Connecticut Ave that may allow you to leave cards.
The other “location” is the L Ron Hubbard house. The only person you will ever see there is the handyman, so don’t bother. But that is on 19th St NW between T and S.
Thanks for the heads up! I will definitely check it out and scope out likely places to leave cards. I wont hold my breath for the OSA group, but like I mentioned- if even one person leaves, Ill visit as often as possible! I generally have to travel a bit anyway, so I will try to find orgs near where my travels take me.
Hello Kat. I’m sorry but I have no idea how to answer you. I would like to tell you one thing however.
I don’t know when you last visited D.C. but when I last went people warned me that D.C. is an extremely high crime area. I checked that out and found they were correct. I suggest you look into this using Google. At a minimum I’d like to suggest that you refrain from going out at night and that you are especially careful never to go out alone. I’m sorry if I sound like some pompous know-it-all but I really enjoy your posts here and I would hate to have anything bad happen to you. At the risk of appearing to be a “blow hard”, I want to tell you of some trick I thought of (although I’m sure that other people have thought of this first).
Anytime I go out alone and I’m unsure of the place I’m going, I always carry something I call a “drop wallet”. For you, it might be a “drop purse”. A drop wallet is an old wallet that contains a bunch of junk (maybe a few dollars and some coins). The idea is that if you ever get mugged and someone tells you, “Hand over your wallet (or purse)”, you can give them something that has zero value to you. When someone is busy mugging you, they won’t really want to take a lot of time to examine what you give them to check that it is real. I’ve never had to use my drop wallet. But I feel a lot safer carrying one and hiding my real wallet somewhere on my person that is not visible or easily accessible.
In any case, I hope you enjoy yourself in DC. Going to the Smithsonian or some of the many excellent museums and other tourist attractions should be a lot safer than going out alone and if you’ve never been to places like that, I bet you’ll really enjoy it. I never got to see the Lincoln Memorial. But if I ever go back to DC, I’d sure love to go see that.
Have a great time, Kat and …. STAY SAFE Dear!
Skyler, When was the last time you were in DC? 1987? 1995?
You are incorrect. The areas of NW DC where the 3 Scilon buildings are located are not in anyway “high crime area”. Walking around Dupont at night is not dangerous*.
And some of the best restaurants in DC are on 14th St NW, which has undergone such gentrification even I barely recognize it anymore.
*Any place can be dangerous, and cities are cities, so care should always be taken.
Gtsix, I don’t know why I’m embarrassed to admit this, but the last time I was in DC was in 1976 for the celebration of the Tall Ships. OMG! I can’t believe that was 43 years ago. I was just a young dope back then.
I would not be surprised at all if you are correct about the high crime issue – given that it’s been such a long time since I was last there. I don’t remember any of the areas of the city at this time. But, since you asked me about DC, I would just like to mention something here now.
Kat? I’d like to say that when I last was in DC, I had never even heard of The Jefferson Memorial. I’m Canadian so my knowledge of your monuments is not nearly as sharp as it may be for an American citizen. But if I ever go back to DC, the two things I’d love to see are The Lincoln and Jefferson Memorials. I know there has been an awful lot of controversy surrounding Jefferson because he owned slaves. However, I think people have to give him some consideration since that was 250 years ago. I recently saw where that Jefferson said, “I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny”.
Doesn’t that sound like he would have been on our side when it came to the fight against The Scam? It is for that reason I would love to visit his memorial and see if there were any other quotes from him there. Anyway, at the risk of sounding like a “Know it All”, I just wanted to suggest that might be an enjoyable place for you to visit. Maybe you might get some good ideas about how to fight The Scam and then tell us about them? Anyway, once again, I hope you will have a great time in DC and I hope you will stay safe, Kat.
Thanks Skyler. I’ll post an update when I return. It’s still not for a few weeks, and I’m working on something for while I’m there. Something that I hope may move the bar a bit…
Thanks for the concern! I promise to be careful- its a great city, but I know there are areas that I shouldn’t wander!
Kat, like gtsix says, it’s hard to find a place where they congregate – and remember, people making $50 a week or whatever (staff of some of the specialized operations and front groups make a bit more) don’t really have the money to patronize local businesses much, other than to pick up a cup of coffee or a smoothie occasionally, or at least don’t have time to do more than that if they’re moonlighting to make real money.
I sometimes check out orgs when I’m traveling. I go to the nearest place of that sort, order something, hang out and see if I can find a way to ask the staff if they get scientologists in there – mentioning the people in the uniforms with vests, which is the most obvious odd thing that stands out about them, is a good icebreaker.
Do you know if they go to local markets at all or if they are completely supplied by the ORG? I was thinking that if I can find where they stay, I might see if there are some local markets that some of them may pick up a few necessities or extra peanut butter and bread. Ill find a likely place to scope out the org that gives a good vantage point to comings and goings.
Oh, yes, they might occasionally grab things at a local market. Any Sea Org may have berthing somewhere, and local staff likely live in various places including shared residences, but I don’t know how you’d figure that out, and they could be far away.
And it occurs to me to mention, my basic strategy for at least getting inside an org for the quickest of looks around (though it can be expanded depended on how comfortable you are with keeping up pretenses) is to go in and tell them you’re looking for the Religious Science church (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_Science – check it out, it’s from the same era as Dianetics and Scientology) or something else they could easily be confused with, which leaves them to have to explain that they’re not what you’re looking for. But then before turning around and walking out, you could then ask them where to grab something to eat or drink, which would give you an idea of where they would go.
I appreciate your initiative in wanting to put out cards. Just be careful, they’ve been drilled in time-tested techniques for dealing with people, including skeptics and critics.
I will definitely try to go into the ORG, even if just to see how empty it is or if there are actual people in there! Ive never been in one, and I should be able to keep up the pretense, even while I ask some questions-
Kat, I don’t want to expose my exact approach, but my general suggestion is to put yourself in the mindset of someone who knows nothing about Scientology and is either “church shopping” or interested in church buildings, and walk in as if you were expecting to find a traditional church with a sanctuary and Christian-style programming – the sort of thing that they must get sometimes. Be prepared to deal with a request for your name and other personal information, whether you want to tell them you don’t give that out, or give them made-up details. When you find out that it’s not a typical church building, you can ask to see where they worship.
Try asking the same sort of questions as you might of a normal church – when are services, how many attend, how large is the congregation, what sort of child and adult education programs do they offer, what sort of volunteer work do they do in the community, what do they believe (maybe even about god or a higher power), and so on. You know that they’re going to give you predictable “acceptable truths” about those sorts of things, but it allows for a fairly structured interaction that you’re directing, and gives you something to talk about on the way to and from the chapel, if you succeed in getting them to show you around – and you can observe as much as you can, along the way. It also sets you up for an easy out for anything they try to offer, in that you can tell them that you either just wanted to see what their chapel looked like, or were looking for a more traditional Christian church (maybe even a particular denomination, like Christian Science).
Also keep in mind that OSA monitors these boards, and might even warn the DC org to expect a SP. If you think you might have blown your cover, you can limit your contact to walking in and walking out, or come up with a completely different and unexpected approach based on something you’re comfortable with pulling off, perhaps related to your personal background – and try not to look like your avatar.
Again, I advise not messing with or challenging them in any way – keep in mind that especially at one of their major locations like DC, you may be dealing with some of their nastiest people. If you’re driving, park a ways away, and be sure that you’re not followed by someone trying to get your license plate number (even a rental could be traced back to you by someone devious enough, or with the right contacts).
I hope you have put your money where your keyboard is and donated at least $50,000 to the Aftermath Foundation rather than just being a pamphleteer and a dilettante! Do this before Thursday 2PM deadline otherwise it’s the Decks for you! There are several Nigerian Princes living in DC who have contacted me lately asking how they can join the Sea Org and I referred them to the HAS FOLO! At least she can get her stats in roaring Affluence for a week!
unlike scientology, the aftermath foundation doesn’t require you to donate huge sums of money to help.
Yes, yes, I thought that or something similar might be your reply…
*whisper* foolproof feeds off contention. The best response to him is none. It puffs up his ego and makes him believe he’s “won” and you’re not wasting time and keystrokes attempting to show him the light.
Go left. Hitler, Stalin and Hubbard stands on the right.
Oh! Really? Perhaps you should read HCOB The Anti-Social Personality (written by Hubbard) where Hitler etc. are mentioned before attempting to juxtapose your Social Justice Warrior assumptions. Lucky I’m here eh otherwise no one else would correct your “data” and we are all interested in the truth, are we not?
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