The media reports that Paul Haggis is now being accused of sexual assault. He responds that scientology may be behind these claims.
There is good reason to believe this is no crazy conspiracy theory. Here is why.
L. Ron Hubbard, founder of scientology, took a very dim view of anyone critical of scientology. Whether politician, reporter, disillusioned former follower or his own family members, Hubbard designated them as “enemies” — not just of scientology, but of mankind. And he laid out in detail how those enemies were to be destroyed.
Hubbard decreed that anyone speaking negatively was “Fair Game” and could be “deprived of property or injured by any means by any scientologist without any discipline of the scientology. May be tricked, sued or lied to or destroyed.” He created a department in scientology devoted to silencing these “enemies.” When “Fair Game” garnered negative press, he cancelled the term because “it causes bad public relations” but did not “cancel any policy on the treatment or handling an SP” (“SP” or Suppressive Person is another term for “enemy”).
There is a long and well documented history of scientology going after its perceived enemies.
Most prominent are the well-known campaign to silence author Paulette Cooper (journalist Tony Ortega wrote the definitive book on this subject) and former Mayor of Clearwater Gabe Cazares (See this article containing the FBI file on the matter). For those who may be unfamiliar, the actions disclosed in scientology’s own documents are not for the weak-kneed. Paulette Cooper was literally framed for an elaborate bomb threat and was being prosecuted for the crime. Gabe Cazares was framed in a phony hit and run accident and had documents planted in government files that falsely made him a bigamist. There is much more, including efforts to set up lawyers and even Federal Judges, setting people up to be arrested for drug trafficking and held in prison overseas. And these are just the things that have been exposed to public scrutiny. Some of these schemes have been extremely elaborate.
Scientology is notoriously secretive. They go to enormous lengths to cover up their involvement in any of these activities, not the least hiding behind lawyers who act as barriers to disclosure under the “attorney/client privilege”.
Scientology tries to claim they “cleaned out” the “criminal elements” who perpetrated illegal acts to frame Ms. Cooper, Mayor Cazares and others. But, like Hubbard and his “PR handling” of Fair Game — there is no changing how scientology goes about dealing with its enemies. They may try to put lipstick on the pig, but that pig is still rolling around in the mud and filth, being fed swill by scientology just as it always has.
And here we get to an underlying fact of scientology. If it was written by L. Ron Hubbard it CANNOT be changed. And it will remain the operating policy of scientology until the end of its days. I have described a lot of this in an extensive, annotated post on this blog Dealing with Critics of Scientology — the L. Ron Hubbard Playbook
Be sure, scientology is still up to its old tricks today. And as they become more desperate, those tricks become more desperate. Just recently, a private investigator hired by a scientology operative was convicted in federal court of hacking me and Tony Ortega. More PI’s were arrested for carrying illegal weapons who had been following David Miscavige’s father. Other PI’s came forward and spilled the beans about operations that had been ongoing for 20+ years against a prominent defector (and others). Spies have been placed in houses across the street from whistleblowers. Spy cameras have been installed. Trash stolen. Anonymous smear sites and on and on. Plenty of examples have been documented on Leah Remini: Scientology and the Aftermath, here and on Tony Ortega’s blog, in the Tampa Bay Times and many other media.
What does Hubbard say about dealing with enemies?
First, everyone who ever speaks out about scientology abuses has crimes. This is Hubbard dicta:
“Now get this as a technical fact. Not a hopeful idea. Every time we have investigated the background of a critic of scientology we have found crimes for which that person or group could be imprisoned under existing law. We do not find critics of Scientology who do not have criminal pasts. Over and over we prove this.”
Even if you have no evidence of the crimes, be certain they ARE there and act accordingly.
“… act completely confident that those crimes exist. Because they do.”
This is how scientology enemies are to be treated. They have sordid crimes for which they could be put in prison, so even if scientology frames them for something they DIDN’T DO, it’s justified as they have, in their minds, gotten away with much worse and have just not been caught. To the dedicated scientologist, they are doing everyone a favor by removing the criminal from society because they know the person is engaged in even more harmful, unknown crimes. And they are CERTAIN of this because Hubbard tells them so. This sort of insane conviction that they are righteous and justified in destroying the lives of others in the name of a higher cause is no different than religious martyrs, suicide bombers and torturers of the Inquisition down through the ages.
But perhaps most startling about scientology is that one does not have to speculate about their activities. Hubbard wrote it down in explicit detail, explaining to his followers HOW to go about framing “enemies.”
There are a number of Hubbard documents detailed in my earlier post about “costing the person his job,” “a covert operation is intended to embarrass, discredit or overthrow or remove an actual or possible opponent,” “People attack Scientology; I never forget it, always even the score” and “always find or manufacture enough threat against them to cause them to sue for peace. Peace is bought with an exchange of advantage, so make the advantage and then settle. Don’t ever defend. Always attack.
For the purpose of this post, I want to focus on one specific piece of Hubbard’s writing entitled INTELLIGENCE PRINCIPLES.
Here, Hubbard explains HOW to go about costing someone their job and manufacturing enough threat against them to cause them to back off.
He offers examples of how to CREATE FALSE RUMORS AND LIES:
Example: Gosh Porge is located as an antagonistic source in the Bureau of Mines. Study Bu of Mines. They frown on corrupt and bankrupt employees, it is carefully worked out by survey. Gosh Porge receives a check for 250 pounds from the Aluminium Company of America at his office for “tip off and patents sent” and “his wife” runs up fur coat bills at Harrods who sue and “a man in Soho” wants his 1800 pounds gambling debt and “a mistress” calls his boss and demands the return of her diamonds “Gosh borrowed” and as it keeps up, even Gosh Porge’s best denials won’t prevent his being sacked.
This is a red flashing light screaming “we are telling you what we are doing”. Paul Haggis is a professional film-maker. How do you cost him his job? Well, the “survey” is very easy. It’s almost the ONLY thing talked about in this business these days. Certainly, direction to create fake debts, false checks and phony “mistresses” is no big leap to fake rape victims. And certainly the outcome “even Gosh Porge’s best denials won’t prevent his being sacked” is right on target.
Hubbard goes on with another example with more fake “complainants”:
And “Legal areas” like lawyers are a point of hit also.
Without consulting Legal Bu Bish Smish is suing C of S for truckloads. Survey his attorneys covertly. One finds they detest “people from the City”, very prejudiced against money clauses. So City blokes start appearing on their lines for Bish Smish – will he win the suit? Broker wants to know can Bish Smish cover his margins?
City bowler hat beats up lawyer with an umbrella because Bish Smish said he was going to get the lawyer to sue him over the “blocks of stock” Bish Smish swindled. Keep it up. Soon he won’t have any lawyer!
I know nothing about the women accusing Paul Haggis.
What I do know is what Hubbard directs his followers to DO about someone like Paul Haggis. Especially when their own Danny Masterson has been called out for raping women. I have not spoken to Paul Haggis about these accusations, but it is certainly not unrealistic to believe scientology is behind these accusers. The connection would be well-hidden. It may take years for it to be disclosed trying and by that time the damage may well have been done.
But the truth has a way of seeping through the cracks no matter the best laid plans of mice and men.
I ended my earlier post on this subject with this, and am repeating it here:
To summarize the scripture of scientology excerpted above:
- Everyone who speaks publicly about scientology without authorization from the church is deemed an enemy (Suppressive Person)
- Scientology is at war with its enemies/critics and they are to be obliterated and destroyed
- All critics are enemies and all critics have crimes
- No expense should be spared to stop a critic – they must be muzzled and shuddered into silence
- Any action is “fair game” when it comes to stopping critics/enemies
- This includes use of Private Investigators and covert operations and agents
- It also includes creating fake “complainants”, threats and smears, even discussing “unknown” crimes as if they were real
- If they cannot find enough threat, they will manufacture it
And scientology claims this is all “religious scripture” while cloaking themselves in a mantle of “we are victims of bigotry and hatred.”
It would be easy, and somewhat understandable, to dismiss this as “over-the-top” exaggerations. To believe that even if all these statements are accurate, they are simply allegorical. But the real world examples of scientology in action, on display for all to see, say otherwise.
In scientology, the words of L. Ron Hubbard are NOT treated as allegorical. They are not taken as suggestions. They are given the weight of absolute, unalterable truth. The most heinous crime you can accuse a scientologist of is not fully understanding and applying the words of L. Ron Hubbard exactly as he wrote them. The expected attitude of a scientologist is to take his words and apply them with “a fixed, dedicated glare.”
The full Hubbard document “Intelligence Principles” is below. Note, it does not bear the signature of Hubbard. Virtually everything he wrote about the covert operations of scientology is unsigned. He wanted to avoid personal liability. The Snow White Program he authored is not signed by him either and it may have prevented him being indicted. But nobody in scientology has ever claimed these are NOT authored by Hubbard. They are the law of scientology.
David Buono says
Mike, I am a Dunedin resident, but more importantly, I have been around Pinellas county for well over 40 years. i am not a follower of Scientology. I would like nothing more than to put Scientology down for good. I have watched Leah’s show about it and hate it even more now.
I am a US marine. I fought for freedom and believe in freedom.
I want to help you rescue people from their grasp. I will help you in any shape or form I can. I am a 6’4″ man, I can be scary if need be… I will help you liberate anybody who wants out of Scientology.
Contact me through email first then I will give you and only you, my cell phone number. I have seen a lot of very quiet Scientology buildings outside of don’t town Clearwater.
I am interested in helping your cause.
Until I hear from you, I will be here.
Oh No! Oh dear!
I jest realized this blog page is from the beginning of 2018.
I know that I am off base. But to be two full years off base, well …. there is jest no excuse. I yam sorry! So sorry!
As soon as I heard the news report about Paul Haggis I said to my husband Sco is behind this. This is their MO! They’re opportunistic maggots looking to exploit the situation.
I cannot and will not place Mr. Haggis in the same group as Weiny and Danny. Nope! I call bullshit. They are messing with the wrong guy. Go get um, Paul.
Susan Elliott says
Thank you for this. I also think the accusations are suspicious. The man is innocent until proven guilty.
Wynski off topic but in case you don”t know I thanked you on Friday’s thread.
Thanks Aqua. Been busy taking care of a special needs kid with a flu.
Understood, Wynski. Hope he/she feels much better soon.
Old Surfer Dude says
I hope she/he gets better soon also.
This is O/T, but interesting since it compares to new Scientology Media Productions facility,
yah gots to read the article to get the comparison to scientology and TV evangelists, LOL:
Somebody show me the miracle of Clear and OT?
“How do televangelists get away with this? It’s easy. It’s the same method the Church of Scientology employs: getting 501(c)(3) status and declaring your corrupt, poor-robbing business model a “ministry,” which, as John Oliver demonstrated, is a painfully simple process. They then ask for large tax-exempt donations and keep as much of it as possible to buy acres of land, mansions, and jets worth $65 million. Joel Osteen, pastor of megachurch Lakewood Church in Texas, for example, lives in a 17,000 square foot home worth $10.5 million dollars. His entire net worth is estimated to be about $40 million.”
Here’s Joel, what rhetoric:
substitute God with LRH and you understand scientology/hubbardology, LOL
To me, it’s suspicious that the first alleged victim did not make an accusation publicly or file a lawsuit as the first step. Instead, she privately made an attempt to collect a multi-million dollar settlement. Then, Paul was the first to sue her (not counter-sue) for extortion/defamation. Then, the other accusers came forward. I’m not sure that a real predator would be the first to make the issue public with a lawsuit. Weinstien had many private settlements with NDAs, no defamation lawsuits until the accusers went public.
Plus, this would fit so well with CoS fair game policy. The perfect time to make up an accusation is when the public is most primed to believe it. Certainly more people know that a great many powerful men in Hollywood and around the world are sexual predators than know about Scientology or their fair game policy. If there was no Aftermath show, it would be a slam dunk for CoS, because hardly anyone would know about them and would have a hard time believing that a “church” would do such things.
Since none of the sexual abuse claims have actually been tried, all of them are just accusations right now. It makes it hard to be a supporter of victims, but to cast doubts about particular accusations. Believing some but not others would make anyone sound like a hypocrite. CoS cashed in on that dilemma big time.
“Paul Haggis is now being accused of sexual assault”…
Hey COB, did you load this latest round of foot bullets, or did one of your SP underlings give you this idea.
You are ALL f***ing rank amateurs.
We all know scientology is behind this ridiculous attack, and of course, as usual, this will only end in you and your mental sickness being further propagated into the public consciousness. How DUMB are you??
WAYC, you said, “We all know that scientology is behind this ridiculous attack….”
Respectfully, that may be true but its not good enough!
By that logic, Co$ “knows” that anti-Scientologists are behind the accusations of Danny Masterson!
At this point, nobody “knows” ANYTHING.
Are we here going to descend to this extremely low analytical level?
We can garner all kinds of circumstantial evidence and speculate according to our likes and dislikes but to actually DECIDE with such a paucity of evidence, even if its just the court of public opinion, is to me deeply disturbing, To me, this smacks of living in Massachusetts during the Salem Witch Trials, or in Europe during the Inquisition.
Ok, maybe I’m over-reacting. 🙂 Let me rephrase: it bothers me a lot 🙂
The Obvious difference is that Masterson is still involved with the crock, and Haggis is out and talking publicly about it. That makes him an enemy of the crock and fair game to have his life destroyed.
I don’t know Haggis. He could be guilty. But, he did sue the first woman for defamation; that’s usually not the act of a guilty party. Usually, the first inclination is to try to keep it quiet.
Your points duly noted and I agree, smorbie.
I support Paul Haggis 100%. Innocent until proven guilty. It IS still a thing in USA, right? What I know:
1 – All rapists are cowards. There is no such thing as a coward who speaks out against Scientology. They
don’t exist. I know because #MeToo.
2 – Scientology’s Intelligence Principles have been in play for half a century, streams of evidence and
victim testimony exist. I know because my husband and I have experienced many of each step.
3 – A Fair Game target is Never taken off your back. You are always on a list. I know because after a
long lull, suffering the slings of most of these steps, lost jobs, income, smearing our reputation on the
blogs and forums, dangling our home ownership for a year and so much more, got a call and another
phone hack during week of no power, Hurricane Irma,. We had uninstalled VPN to save precious
battery time. It was one of the non-Scientologists who had spied on us previously. We checked and
found some of the veteran OSA volunteers in Flag/Clearwater had recently vacationed with them.
4 – Those Principles eliminate any possibility of a) OSA not knowing about a crime and b) OSA not using
and abusing knowledge of such a crime and sitting on it for years. These sudden, simultaneous
three unnamed women have stated they will not talk to the authorities. Scientologists or not, a
billion dollar bully with a bottomless budget has no scarcity of people who can be bought. Women
who #MeToo, jump on board a lawsuit, but refuse to speak to authorities, should not be considered
for, well, anything. Hard to imagine any lawyer who would include.
5 – Scientology’s core control mechanism, “ethics”, demands each member to “confess” to a similar
crime if you report it internally and admit you deserved it. I know because they coerced me to confess
I must have raped someone in another life.* They also demand you never report crimes to authorities.
. Is there a rapist that starts at the age of 60? I only know I have never heard of such a creature.
* Most therapeutic step I ever took to reclaim my self after life in Scientology Sea Org was marching into Flag to retract that statement that had bothered my heart and soul for almost 40 years and demand they record it in my folder. So Paul Haggis: I want you to know I believe you. I support you. I thank you.
I love this THDNE! This whole thing just stinks & other allegations (being a survivor myself…) have not felt like this. I’ve thought on whether it’s because I have personal feelings on this but this whole thing is just too … something that doesn’t feel genuine to me. I’m ok with being wrong but my gut tells me I’m not & to take the tougher road on this one!
Surly you’re not implying that operatives of DM and the Co$ would do something like:
1. Cull Paul Haggis’ PC and ethics folders for any woman he may ever have had contact with.
2. Send PIs and OSA operatives out to contact every one of these women looking for potential dirt.
3. Design a pack of materials to convince these women that Paul is a TERRIBLE monster who must be punished.
4. Cajole these women into feeling they MUST take action (even if the thought never crossed their minds before this.
5. Imply that with the current environment there might be substantial financial rewards as well as the cathartic effects of righting a wrong.
6. Provide the names of a few very aggressive lawyers with the integrity of Gloria Allred or Monique Yingling.
7. Do all this while never mentioning the Co$ and covering their tracks so no roads lead back to them.
The most ethical group on the planet would never do such a covertly hostile thing…would they?
Not saying this is anything other than speculation on my part.
But I sure hope Paul’s own lawyers and PIs pull the strings on any of the women’s reasons for speaking out now. Who have they been talking to?
The Co$, by their actions, has thoroughly convinced me that NO ONE can or should trust them with anything they wish to keep confidential. They are one of the most unethical groups on the planet.
Mike Rinder says
Clearly you have done your homework Les.
Astute and I suspect v accurate.
There it is, LDW, laid out clearly as a step by step loading of foot bullets into the suicidal pistol held in the hand of the biggest nitwit on the planet David Miscavige.
You know, it might be more lucrative for Haggis’s accusers to turn against the church of scientology for being cajoled to make this attack on him. Book deals and movie offers and who knows what… OH PLEASE MAKE THIS HAPPEN!!
Arnie Lerma says
Anti-cult Activist Ms. Ida Camburn, who wrote the letter that resulted in the famous letter from Congressman Leo Ryan ( https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/1976_Congressman_Leo_Ryan_letter_to_Ida_Camburn#/media/File:1976_Congressman_Leo_Ryan_letter_to_Ida_Camburn.jpg ) said that this document, OPERATIONS OFFICER, was the most important single document for fellow activists to read.
Quotes from above:
1. Initially plan out at least 3 channels of attack with the data you
have at hand.
5. Ensure proper security is planned in an operation, ie: use of an
untraceable typewriter, paper without fingerprints, proper covers by
FSM’s, etc. (See security write-up and security section data in hat
materials of Ops US hat checksheet)
10. A believable source must be provided in an operation, thereby
“filling the vacuum,” so that Scientology isn’t dubbed in as source
of the attack. All Ops are planned in such a way that they in no way
could be traced back to the Church.
(6) The major target of the Op is based on a *real*, current situation.
(7) When hitting a group or individual, hitting their finance and comm
(8) Getting an enemy to attack another enemy.
Mike Rinder says
YEs, that document is terribly incriminating, though not authored by Hubbard. But it is a roadmap of the mindset that pervades “Intel” to this day.
Mike, thank you for this important article, one of the best yet! This hard to confront truth ( for some) about the C of S criminal side needs to get out. It is obvious to me that the C of $ and Davey are behind the false accusation of Paul Haggis of sexual misconduct or even rape. It is a jump on the bandwagon thing because everyone else is doing it, as well as payback for Danny Masterson. I loved reading the actual limited-distribution policy that you provided too. One thing: how do you know that LRH didn’t write the article that was in the link to Arnie Lerma’s site above? He never signed ANY of the black ops policies just so that they could not be traced back to him. So my guess is he did write the article in the link that Arnie Lerma provided. I don’t have any proof, but just my hunch.
Mike Rinder says
how do you know that LRH didn’t write the article that was in the link to Arnie Lerma’s site above? He never signed ANY of the black ops policies just so that they could not be traced back to him. So my guess is he did write the article in the link that Arnie Lerma provided. I don’t have any proof, but just my hunch.
It’s much better than a hunch Cindy. I know EVERYTHING Hubbard wrote about the GO/OSA. I had to collect it all. This was NOT written by him. If memory serves it might have been Mo Budlong, but that may not be true. But it is not Hubbard.
Old Surfer Dude says
Is Mo still around?
Thanks for that clarification, Mike.
Mike, thank you for posting this. I asked you earlier if you thought that CoS was behind this. I do. It’s too easy considering Danny Masterson ( payback) and the atmosphere in Hollywood. Plus the wanna take down a big boy, and right now they can’t touch youand Leah without going through the army of fans the show has created.
Thank you for this reminder of what ruthless bastards they really are….
Harpoona Frittata says
4. When I’m no longer around to straighten things out, then apply KSW ruthlessly and all of my Scn flock will thrive and, in time, earn the miracle of my return!
Fail to follow my eternal spiritual truth dictates and this one thin sliver of hope in this tiny window of time will have passed in the blink of BT’s eye, and then, all will surely be lost!
Old Surfer Dude says
Holy shit! I think my time has passed in the blink of BTs eyes. Does anyone else have problems with their BTs? I mean, they’re always making fun of me.
While some of mine are problematic that way, laughing at me, hiding the remote, etc, others are quite helpful. They’ve been cleaning my house and cooking dinner for me for many years. This is why I simply can’t be bothered to spend the time and money required to get rid of them; they are just too darn useful.
Do your BTs do windows, smorbie?
Only first floor windows, I’m afraid. Mine are too lazy to climb a ladder.
CO$ Money Doc says
I’ve written here and elsewhere of my distain for Hubbard’s concepts of “intelligence operations”. Specifically, regarding the inherent ignorance of Scn’s smear campaigns, being constantly credited as “intelligence gathering”, and the product of some supposedly omnipotent “intelligence organization/operation”. Hubbard’s documented “Intelligence Principles” are nothing of the sort; in his typically turgid style, Hubbard’s many missives on the subject, simply represent some twisted Hollywood ideal, yet are nothing more than laundry lists of tactics for reputational ruin, or road maps for fair gaming if you will, that lack any semblance of strategic acumen or methods suggestive of nuanced analytical processing.
While Operation “Snow White” involved some examples of impressive tradecraft, in the form of infiltration and targeted gathering of a broad selection of sensitive information, it was on the whole, nothing more than a sophisticated burglary, given that the GO completely failed in its ability to exploit the information obtained, and critically, failed to prevent the resultant extensive blowback; blowback which ultimately, and almost fatally, crippled Scn at the time, and arguably, into the present day.
The broad remit of espionage’s “black arts” can certainly leverage the use of reputational ruin, black mail, and other means of discrediting or eliminating the influence of a particular target. Scn’s campaign against Paulette Cooper is a textbook example of this, yet this effort fails spectacularly in adhering to a primary tenet of intelligence: any operation, be it overt or covert must align with the over-all furtherance of an organization’s primary goals. “Miss Lovely” ended-up exposing Scn once again, as a sinister, paranoid, and ultimately untrustworthy entity, devoid of any moral or ethical foundation. Hardly the best way to protect and enhance one’s brand, let alone expedite planetary clearing…
The targeted collection of information (raw data), the transformation of that information into intelligence, the interpretation of the intelligence and the dissemination thereof, to the correct people in a timely fashion, is the essential function of an intelligence organization.
Hubbard constantly confuses specific niche tactics, with the methods inherent in propagating a strategic intelligence campaign. Subsequently, a lack of formalized intelligence then leads to poorly formulated strategies based on guess work, or in Scn’s case, a “strategy” spurred by spite, malice, and revenge. This lack of analytical processing is something the professional cannot ignore, regardless of the dimension of war or in Scn’s instance, a specific desired outcome, that an organization or nation-state is expecting or fighting for. The inability to objectively identify threats (“PTS”), in the medium to long term, compounds the inability to acquire and position the necessary sources, for instance “public relations (PR), thus paving the way for intelligence failures, or more so “flaps” or Scn’s chronic PR disasters.
Here then, is a broadly agreed-to set of intelligence principles, as applied by intelligence professionals across a variety of private and government bodies. They are not listed in any particular order:
1. Planning: Rigorous, methodical planning ensures that the correct information is received at the most favorable time and place. Planning also ensures that the intelligence requirements are met (the “product”). This assumes the 5 Ps of planning – Proper Planning Prevents Poor Performance. Planning is an action which needs to be considered well before any deliberate action is planned. Planning will furthermore assist the collection effort in identifying strong and weak points as well as opportunities and strengths.
2. Exploitation of all Sources: All overt, covert and clandestine sources available must be objectively exploited. These sources need to be carefully considered in order to prevent one source compromising another. Additionally, this provides collection planners a means to independently confirm they have the necessary information or if sources need to be identified and recruited. This includes all forms of liaison with outside bodies and agencies. Technical intelligence (TECHINT) and satellite intelligence (SATINT) are sources that require consideration but should never be viewed as the primary sources as they can effectively be used to feed disinformation into the intelligence process. Human intelligence (HUMINT) is by far the most timely and accurate source of raw data.
3. Time: The adage “Time spent on planning is never wasted” holds true. Essentially, this requires planners and analysts to be “forward looking” and pro-active and not wait for a negative situation to manifest itself before any effort is launched. Scn constantky fails in this regard, as they tend to be far more reactive than proactive. Time is essential in ensuring the following actions can be realistically achieved:
• Identify, recruit and train covert sources (agents)
• Tasking of covert and overt sources
• Deployment and/or positioning of TECHINT and SATINT sources
• The collection of information
• The feedback/reporting process
• The interpretation of information
• The dissemination of the intelligence product
4. Relevancy: The collection effort must be relevant to the intelligence requirement, and not based on whim, caprice or vengeance. This ensures that time, effort and resources are not wasted (SeaOrg slave labor notwithstanding). When relevancy becomes discarded, collection for the sake of collection can lead to wastage of assets, funds, and can adversely impact morale. Furthermore, irrelevant information and intelligence can mislead strategists and planners.
5. Control: The collection effort must be carefully controlled, but not manipulated, to ensure economy of effort, prevent unnecessary duplication of effort, and minimize compromise. Control is a prerequisite for directing sources correctly and efficiently.
6. Access: Without access, there can be no collection. Access needs to be well-planned in advance with back-up access points positioned in case of source compromise.
7. Flexibility: Flexibility will allow the collection effort to rapidly switch from one target to the next. However, without planning and access, there can be no flexibility – or at best, only limited flexibility.
In closing, intelligence planners need to be very familiar with the grand strategy of an organization, as well as the subsequent tactical (“street level”) strategy. Compare the aforementioned with Hubbard’s ramblings, and it’s clear he never had a clue. Scn never mastered any of these precepts, as Hubbard’s constant meddling never allowed for the independence of thought so vital in effective intelligence analysis. Had he allowed the GO/OSA to develop it’s trade craft, as well as allowing the sharing of information, in furtherance of an agreed-to goal, one can only wonder where Scn would be today. Megalomania is fatal in the Intel business; analysts, assets, and operatives must be able to objectively apply their craft efficiently, accurately, and with reasonable leadership.
Eeben Barlow’s MILSEC blog was used as a source in preparing this post.
If I could just summarize:
Hubbturd’s intelligence tactics were basically playground bullying done without forethought and organization and without clear effective leadership.
I have to disagree. A lot of what they have done has been extremely well organized and very, very frightening.
Making the IRS buckle from sheer exhaustion is certainly no small feat.
I Yawnalot says
My God the scientology organisation & the mind set it creates is an extremely ugly & evil thing.
Old Surfer Dude says
I was ugly & evil once. But that was when I was still in. I’ve been reformed.
You have a beautiful, mellow soul. I often disagree with you, but I find your presence peaceful
‘Kirstie Alley, actress and Scientologist, called writer Yashar Ali “hateful” after the Huffington Post writer pointed out her seemingly contradictory responses to rape allegations against Danny Masterson and Paul Haggis.’
Old Surfer Dude says
Kirstie Alley can kiss my ass! She posted that there were 20 MILLION members. And that’s just laughable! At their pinnacle they had about 100,000 members.
She also said shit about Leah. Bitch…
I agree. She’s gross in every way.
Give her a break. Cheers was, what 30 years ago? She’s got to do something to stay relevant since her career has largely been moribund since that time.
She’s an idiot, of course. But easily swatted like a fly and ignored.
Yes, apparently, she believes she’s still got to do something. Maybe the cult tells her that. This poses a problem, since she’s an empty-headed, potty mouthed 65 year old who never had much talent to be begin with, so now, with her looks gone her solution is to give endless interviews furnishing endless stream-of-consciousness ruminations on the vicissitudes of her weight gain/weight loss stratagems. peppered with vulgarities passed off as wit. Oh, and every now and then, an interview expressing her longing to meet a nice man, wherein she shares her inner pre-teen with us, coming off as a wistful 13 year old girl in a senior citizen’s body.
True, I really don’t like the way she palms this crap off as “entertainment”. She should just retire and enjoy her money and eat. Or, just decide and lose the freakin’ weight and get acting jobs and go out on dates. Thousands of men would go out with her! Just decide, and stop dithering and calling it entertainment, Kirstie, because its not!
But fair is fair, I do like how she advocates humane treatment for the plight of animals, be they house pets, circus, farm, wild or endangered – I really like that she cares about these creatures because I do too.
Gross in every way? What the Hell? What do you mean?
She is far more gross in many ways that we have ever ever even considered.
In fact, (are you sitting down?), if we were to hold a contest for the most ugly and most grossest creature what ever did fart upon the surface of our planet, she would come up as the one creature who could uglify most any situation without ever even trying. When it comes to “uglification”, that monster is truly a winner in every single category. In fact, she is also a winner in all the dogegories. That is pretty hard to do when you do not even qualify as a cat. She truly is a doggone dog! Woof! Woof! Woof! (and Arf! Arf! and Barf!). Would you like to hear more my dear? I got more, you know.
Thanks for such a clear explanation. The Paul Haggis accusations makes real what Scientology is all about.
I don’t know the truth. But for now, knowing Scientology and its utter despicable acts in the past, I’m 100% standing in Paul’s corner.
Computer Guy says
I am standing in Paul’s corner 100% too
Old Surfer Dude says
My back is sore so can I just sit in Paul’s corner? It’s an age thing.
🙂 Thanks, I needed that, OSD. ‘Nite, everyone.
I Yawnalot says
Old Surfer Dude says
Aquamarine, even my aches have aches.
I feel your pain, OSD. Ouch. I feel it. I really do. Now we both feel it. I’m suffering too. Believe me.
End of Kumbaya moment.
You’ve got these BOOTS to wear OSD!
Don’t forget! You are our host, our Master Of Ceremonies on Huntington Beach! This is a huge responsibility. And we could be partaying a LOT sooner than we think!
Seriously, the cult could dissolve at any time.
Forget their blowing smoke PR – the cult is in serious trouble.
This Beach Bash full of former Bots that you’re throwing will do more for your aching back than any shot of cortisone!
Feel better, OSD 🙂
I am in Paul Haggis’s corner too. Scientology has just demonstrated how low they are. So pathetic of them to cheapen the legitimate sexual abuses going on in Hollywood… They are just the WORST people on this planet.
OK. Computer guy. Could you please exhale just a bit? I want to join you. Please? If you were to exhale a teeny tiny bit, I bet cha I could probably exsqueeze into the corner with you.
Exsqueeze me, Please?
A diamond says
Mike and Nathan, I’m not getting my daily emails for this blog again ?
A diamond says
Can you see this?
Marie guerin says
Hasn’t it been said that the “metoo” movement is cathartic for the women involved , that speaking up with actual names to the press is part of what makes the movement , shedding the old fear and secrecy?
The anonymity makes it suspicious.
Also , any misconduct of that magnitude would most likely have been reported in session.
And they sat on this for so long? 1996 .
The thing is that the church is involved in every press article as possible foul play.
Could it be another foot bullet?
What a shame if this damages Paul Haggis’s carrier.
Thank you Mike for posting this quickly.
At this point I have strong doubts about any woman who comes forward. We’ve seen this used against members of both parties in government. Sometimes there is proof (couldn’t happen to be nicer guy, Franken), but often there isn’t.
Anyone can accuse anyone else of anything. It doesn’t have to be true to ruin someone. We have to be cautious about believing crap like this.
Mike thanks for this article. Paul has done massive damage to Scientology in Hollywood.
I would not put it past Miscavige to go to any length to damage Paul.
My thanks to you also, Mike. Someone on this blog made a comment a few days ago – I think it was Newcomer if memory serves – that he had heard from someone, not read it but heard from someone, that Paul Haggis was counter-suing one of the women over this, on the grounds that he (PH) was out of state and recovering from back surgery at the time of this alleged rape of this woman!
Now, aside from all we know about Our Favorite Cult’s impressive playbook of dirty tricks along with vast sums spent using them against vocal critics like Paul Haggis, if the above is true and PH is indeed counter-suing this woman on these grounds, and can back it up with proof (and how could he possibly counter sue without such proof? ) then I don’t see how there’s even a case in this instance!
Someone has actual proofs. I hope it is Paul.
Mike I absolutely refuse to believe these disgusting allegations against Paul Haggis. This is someone out to discredit him and/or make a buck. Please let Paul know we (I) stand with him and am willing to help in any way possible.
Old Surfer Dude says
I too thought this is Co$ the minute the first article about Paul Haggis came out, I keep waiting to read that these women are in that cult.
Old Surfer Dude says
I’d bet my bottom dollar on it.
As a strong supporter of the #metoo movement, and a woman who has been subject to workplace sexual harassment, I am inclined to believe accusers. However, in this case, I must admit that my first thought after hearing of the Haggis accusations was Sci GO Ops. We all know that they didn’t really disband the GO, they just renamed it. I’m torn by my reaction, but with our knowledge of the “church’s” MO, as detailed by Mike so well today, I can’t dismiss my initial skepticism. I’m withholding further judgment until we know more. I’ve always liked and supported Paul Haggis, especially after his defection from CoS. If the charges prove to be true, I hope he receives the harshest punishment. As well, I hope he receives the same media coverage if the charges are proven false as he is for the scandal unfolding now all over the web.
This is why presumption of innocence is big part of the law. While I support executing rapists and despise those who use power to demand sex, it is good to stand back and let the facts come out.
Mike, is this the same Eric Saldarriaga? Just for giggles I searched the name and I found an obituary in Queens:
Mike Rinder says
Looks like it could be. Not an uncommon name though.
I guess i’m just from the other side of the country and those Italian names aren’t as common here. It just seemed to fit, with the age and location as well.
Tierney Clark says
Before i even got to the section where you mention Masters, the thought popped into my mind about him, and all the other people in the cult who have been accused of sexually abusing someone, and how Scientology backs them up, by accusing the victims of not handling their “thetans” well enough to “handle” their situation. It is ok for a Scientologist to sexually abuse anyone, even their own children, (see the awful statement from Elron himself about passionate kissing a child: ugh!) and the cult leaders act as tho they were complaining that the offender did something as lame as yelling at them. But when they can’t find any other way to discredit Haggis, AN EX-CULT member, they pull out a sexual abuse story? Do they not think that anyone with half a brain won’t see the irony in this tactic????I guess you can only get away with sexual molestation if you’re a Scientologist. I obviously do not know Paul Haggis but I just don’t see him doing something like this. We will be watching
Cat W. says
I’ve been worried about something like this since the flood of sexual abuse claims started rolling in. I’m a survivor of abuse myself, so part of me was glad that “people are talking about it” and “the truth is coming out.” But I could never feel that way without conflicting other emotions in the mix, because I knew about Scientology. I felt uncomfortable with trial by Twitter because I knew Scientology was fully capable of rounding up a bunch of women to make false claims. I don’t believe this is happening in most cases, but it only takes one to make the pendulum swing back harshly.
I’m not saying it’s impossible that Haggis is yet another of our former beloved celebrities to turn out to treat women horribly. I’m saying I’d first need to know for sure whether those women were Scientologists or in the pay of Scientology before I’d think about believing them. Yes, Scientologists lie. That’s not bigotry; that’s a demonstrated fact. “We have no policy of disconnection,” for example. It’s part of their religion to lie, so they do. They even redefine lies as acceptable “truth.” No, guys, it’s still a lie and it’s unacceptable. Two lies about it don’t make it true. Unethical behavior on behalf of your church does not make it ethical.
I hope Haggis does not turn out to be an abuser, because the mix of conflicting emotions gets harder and harder to deal with. I respect his ethics that made it impossible for him to just get out of Scientology and stay quiet about it. If he knew about people being hurt by this organization that he was a part of for so long, he had to say something. Now THAT is ethical. He should give classes to former Scientologists on the meaning of ethics.
If you find out more, please let us know, Mike. Either way.
What A WOG Saw says
This is really really well said and dead on. Personal story…As an outsider, a WOG and someone with no ties or experience with scientology up until about 2.5 years ago other than a snip of Going Clear, I had no idea what they were capable of…Until I met the most gorgeous, fun and charismatic woman of my life here in LA and fell in love hard. By the time I found out she had any ties at all to Scientology I was already so hooked I somewhat convinced myself it would be ok. It helped that she said, “Oh my family is in Florida, I don’t see them much and none of us have much assosiation with the church at all. I haven’t even stepped in the church in 4-5 years” That turned out to be lies but what I saw, learned and experienced in the next two years is fucking up my head today 7 months out of the relationship.
Turns out she came from one of the most deeply tied families in the cult and while she had distanced herself she had a lifetime of crazy upbringing, brainwashing and severe childhood sexual abuse (never reported but certainly audited) which will no doubt will effect the rest of her life. The person I loved turned out to be one of the most manipulative, narcissistic self serving destructive conciousless liars to walk the earth. Lies as “acceptable truth” is just the beginning.
In this time what I saw from her friends, Church affiliated circle and Hollywood associations (all the major names we hear all the time) was just a series of unconscionable and incestuous behavior that blew my mind. At the end of the day it was all justified in their own minds. They could do no wrong.
My special someone, who spoke of marriage, future plans and devotion to me had multiple personalities and no morality. She lied, cheated and even stole. She exhibited these behaviors while I looked after her and essestially gave her my whole world. She continued this behavior while lying to my face in time of personal family tragedy, sickness and death. When I figured her out she essentially disconnected and smeared my name like I’d never existed and moved right on to a new relationship opportunities that had been started while we were together. MANY OF THEM. We basically lived together between our two homes prior.
My point here and this is nothing new, is that the cult creates or reinforces behavior that is nothing short of immoral and horrendous. Behavior that is justified as ok because it’s their own truth. They are capable of anything. Its not in the least bit surprising to see them going after Haggis. They will turn on anyone at any time because nobody matters. There will be a million lives to come to do things all over again. We are all temporary in this “unit of time” (her words) to them. They have no souls and only look for immediate gratification no matter how hollow or immoral it is.
I don’t mean to make blanket statements but it’s my experience. No morals, no empathy, no credibility and no shame. They don’t know the meaning of Ethics.
Thank you Mike. This information just needs to be repeated and repeated until all media knows Scientology is more like the Mafia.
The more the truth of Hubbard and his violent needs to destroy people, by revealing his own writings, becomes known, the more society will continue to take their claims as psycho horse shit.
Thank you Mike.
Old Surfer Dude says
I had a horse once named, Psycho Horse Shit. Surprisingly, or not, he won every race that he ran.
Ha ha ha!!
No, the mafia is far more ethical, and far more competent than that gong show scientology.
And mafia were devoted family members.
Hey whatareyourcrimes! You are right. Hubbard was worse than mafia. That is true!
As you said, when all is over, the damage will have been done. I have no idea if Haggis is guilty of the claimed offenses, but if he is tarred with Weinstein brush, Miscavage will dance a jig.
Anyone could be behind this ‘smear’. Someone(s) who want discredit the #metoo movement, someone who just wants to cause some more confusion in the press to hide something else.
Any way it happens, it takes a sizeable sum to put this together. Who is paying?
Old Surfer Dude says
My first reaction to this is Scientology sent out trolls to make Paul Haggis look bad. I’m sure the women were from the cult!
Of course Scn sent out trolls to make Paul Haggis look bad. If people are offering to pay millions to women to say Trump raped them, then the church can pay women to say Haggis did inappropriate sexual things to them. Davey has billions of dollars at his disposal and no paper trail. And he can use all the OSA and Guardian’s Office tricks to make it impossible to trace the payment to these women trolls back to him. So of course he would pay women to say Paul did that to them. The thought that comes to my mind is, “I am a vengeful God.” DM is a narcissist and a sociopath who thinks he is God or at least has the power of God. He thinks millions of people listen to him and has said, “Power is when people listen to you.” Sadly, he hasn’t seen that his “millions” of followers have dwindled to maybe 20,000 max, including SO members, and of that number many are under the radar and not on board with him any longer.
Cindy, we know that Miscavige is a little thick, but even he is smart enough to know that his membership is like flies on a dead rat… dwindling as the body further dries out.
Yep, they may have removed a bunch of GO folks as a show of “doing something about” the Snow White catastrophe and other flaps but Hubbard’s “tech” definitely remains in place and it is the “source” of everything still being done today. Even Miscarriage can’t change that. Right?
Gus Cox says
They “removed” them publicly, but most of them didn’t go anywhere. They ended up getting jobs at clam businesses like David Morse & Associates and Sterling Management. As usual, the “removal of the bad apples” was all bullshit.
What A WOG Saw says
Singer Enterprises much?
Old Surfer Dude says
Sadly, they have been wallowing in the mud and dirt so long that that is their only reality. Hard to be or do spiritual things when they are caked in mud.
Old Surfer Dude says
‘…wallowing in the mud and dirt.’ That sums it up fine for me.
My Inner Space says
I am extremely torn about this. I’ll admit my first thought when I heard this is that Scientology is doing this. But the #metoo movement drummed into us that we have to believe all alleged victims unquestioningly! If we believe Danny Masterson’s accusers, should we not believe Paul Haggis’ accusers. The reason the #metoo movement became so newsworthy is a) because it seemed to be everywhere and b) it was from men that we just didn’t think were like that. But because of fair game and because Paul and his daughter angered the Church by appearing on Aftermath it is certainly more plausible that they are involved. if this goes towards trial I am sure the accusers will be taken apart in no time if their accusations are false. But I put a challenge to you, Tony Ortega, Leah, Aaron, Terra Cognita and anyone who has skills and/or contacts to uncover the connection between these accusers and the church if there is any and expose it to the world. Even if that includes hiring your own PIs to fair game them back.
jeanne wolff says
My Inner Space,
you state it so well they will have to do the work and prove the accusers are lying. After watching and listening to Paul Haggis on the show, I am shocked by the accusations. Sadly, he has to work twice as hard as the accusers to prove his innocence. I believe the truth always wins. Just so sad the massive amount of BS one has to go through to find it.
Gus Cox says
Looks like the first one obviously lied given that Haggis was in a back brace recovering from surgery at the time she said the “violent physical assault” occurred. The other two haven’t given any specific times of the events they claim. It sounds very fishy – nay, clammy – to me.
This. False accusers face serious repercussions.
Not sure what country you live in but in the US, one is innocent until proven guilty, emphasis on the word “proven”.
Rape is not easy to prove even when the woman reports immediately afterward. If its reported 16 years later…good luck!
That doesn’t mean it didn’t happen, it means that the EVIDENCE that a rape occurred is lacking or possibly insufficient to even charge the man let alone convict him, because there have to be legal reasons to CHARGE someone with a crime.
“Innocent until proven guilty beyond reasonable doubt” applies to all Americans whether we like them and want them to be innocent, or hate them and want them to be guilty.
That said, my money’s on Mr. Haggis’ factual innocence AND – far more impressive than simply lack of evidence for his accusers to get him charged and/or convicted, his ability to conclusively PROVE his innocence – even though,legally, under our justice system, he doesn’t have to!
Tierney Clark says
I agree that on the face of it, we think, well if this one did it, why didn’t that one? What’s the difference? In my thinking on it ( and i could certainly be wrong), Masters is still in: therefore he has the full backing of the cult. They will use the same above “standard” to protect him that they will use to try to destroy Paul, who is OUT, and much to their chagrin, is spreading the truth about the cult far and wide. The double standard here is not lost on anyone who follows the cult’s activities via Ortega, Rinder, Rimini, and all the YouTube guys that post daily. If a person is molested within the cult: it’s on the victim to “deal”. But what better way to destroy an ex cult member than to use an abuse charge against him, knowing that the rest of the world doesn’t think at all like the COS does, therefore will jump on the me too bandwagon. You’re right. But maybe with enough people making this tactic known, he will not fare so badly. I’m certainly going to post the church’s double standard, every time i see an article about Paul. I hope he can rise above this if he is indeed innocent
My Inner Space says
Mike I think your commenting system or blog has a virus. I got two emails from your blog with an attachment saying that someone made a reply to my comment. As you can see there are no replies and if I had asked for notification it would not come with an attachment.
I get this too. About once every other day.
Old Surfer Dude says
What, your back going out? I heard that!
A Sordid Fruit says
For me, the point of the #MeToo movement is that my first instinct is to NOT disbelieve an accuser, and that’s how I believe we should think. It is not the same as automatically believing an accuser, which could very easily be used to harm good and innocent people.
Also, the lateness (within the industry wide cycle) of the allegations is suspicious in and of itself…
Elapsed time is not of itself suspicious. Many victims of sexual violence don’t tell. It is one of every countries dirty little secrets.
zemoo, yes it is when that late game time breaks with SIMULTANEOUS, MULTIPLE accusers.
I agree Wynski. It is a coincidence that all his four accusers come out at exactly the same time? More proof that this is fake and trumped up FAIR GAME against Haggis.
Old Surfer Dude says
Suspicious and coincidence are not proof. Its “thinking” like this that degrades our justice system and degrades all of us. Its “thinking” like this that in fascist countries puts people in jail or ruins them or executes them on suspicion alone. Its disgusting, is what it is. Disgusting and dangerous and QUITE stupid. One doesn’t like or approve of somebody so that person who is accused of someone HAS to be guilty and vice versa. Really dumb, I have to say. We can all speculate on someone’s guilt or innocence based on circumstance and our own desires for that person’s guild or innocence. Sure that is the court of public opinion, fine. We can each “decide” all kinds of ridiculous shit about someone based on the above. Have fun doing it and being stupid because one day someone just may decide to to judge YOU based on prejudice, coincidence and so forth. Bad karma.
Sorry for the misspellings and vitriol. Nothing personal. I just hate injustice. I hate people being tried in the court of public opinion. Its not right. Its not right if I like a person or if I hate a person. Injustice degrades and endangers all of us. This is just me.
Again, my money is on Paul Haggis’ innocence as well as his ability to handle whatever is being thrown at him, standardly, legally, whether or not the accusations stem form the cult’s dirty black pr ops or not. My instinct is that he will come out on top of this, with everyone thinking well or better of him. I can’t think with this until I have more data. I presume him innocent as is his right. And of course because I want him to be. But I’m making these distinctions.
I suppose we should wait for the CoS to be convicted in a court of law before we judge or discuss their abuses then. To be fair, right?
Incorrect dwarmed. If YOU personally watched a person you KNEW murder a person, you are perfectly ok in “judging” them.
Do you understand the difference dwormed?
My point. How many people in the public (readers/commenters/viewers of Aftermath) discussing CoS actually witnessed these abuses first hand? For example, unless someone has personally been beaten by DM or witnessed DM beating someone, they would be in no position to believe all the people coming out with their stories or to think DM is a bad person. CoS denies DM did these things and he has not been convicted of a crime. I am betting many commenters on this blog or viewers of Aftermath have not personally witnessed these crimes. Still, when the testimony and evidence mounts up, we feel free to comment on such activity and even believe the accounts. I have no right to believe anything Mike Rinder says is true, I have no firsthand knowledge of it, but I still do. If we shouldn’t be doing that until there is a conviction in a court of law or unless we have direct knowledge of such actions, then what is the point of this blog or the Aftermath show? It can’t be for the benefit of the people with direct experience with these activities. They already know what really happened. The act of exposing abuses to those who don’t know is inviting the court of public opinion. It’s supposed to make people aware and concerned about the organization’s behavior, suspicious of their claims.
All I’m saying is that deciding to believe accusers or the accused in sexual abuses cases is similar to deciding to believe that CoS is guilty of abuses, when it comes to all the people in the public who weren’t there to witness it firsthand. We certainly can’t decide they are guilty legally (CoS or sex abusers), but we have the right to be concerned about their abuses and discuss that concern. If we are not supposed to come to a personal opinion about the evidence we are provided in these forums because ‘innocent until proven guilty’ and ‘we don’t know what happened’ and ‘convicting in the court of public opinion is bad’, then what are we doing here? What are we supposed to do with this information? It’s very tricky in both scenarios. Are we inappropriately judging people or organizations that are still legally innocent if we believe accusations or inappropriately judging accusers if we think their stories sound fishy? Are we ignoring them altogether if we refuse to believe anything until there is a legal conviction? Most of these crimes will never be tried in court and there will never be justice served and we will never know what really happened. What do we do with that?
dwarmed, you must be new here. A large % of the posters here witnessed abuses by the church. A VERY large number…
So, they can judge away on the CoS
As well they should, Wynski.
I think you may be missing my point, though. If you feel the *only* people who can judge or have an opinion about abuses are those who have directly witnessed them, then what is the point of exposing those abuses to the general public? I thought the purpose was to make people aware/disturbed enough that the bad PR pressures CoS to end abuses or people put pressure on the authorities to do something or at least don’t fall into the same trap. That requires people judging an organization for which they have no direct knowledge. I don’t think it’s possible to stop systemic abuse if only the victims are able to combat it. When the perpetrator has unlimited funds and can buy the an army of lawyers, police, judges, fake witnesses, etc, the victims will never get justice through official channels. The public needs to be incensed as well and demand change.
The same applies to the sex abuse cases. We have to balance our distaste for trying people in the court of public opinion with the need for overwhelming public awareness/anger to have a chance to stop any abuse by those in power. I doubt we will see even one of these cases make it to a criminal court. My initial response was to point out that we can’t, as a society, reserve judgment entirely, waiting for the justice system to work things out. It won’t happen. The only thing we have is to change people’s attitudes and the culture at large.
If I misunderstood the purpose of this blog, and it is instead meant to be solely for ex-Scientologists to support each other, I apologize for my misunderstanding.
@dwarmed, Are you saying you think we don’t have a right to judge them if we were abused by them?
I think you if you were to ask for an accounting, you would see huge lines of those of us who comment here with our hands in the air because we were either abused by them (yeah count me in that group) or we witnessed their abuses (oh, yeah, count me in that group too).
I am lucky to still be alive and lucky to have the mental and physical treatment I need now. It took six surgeries just on my nose after I escaped to get it where I could breathe again. I still have a 12″ scar on my left arm. Those are the outward physical scars. They’re NOTHING.
PTSD is the hard part and it’s real and I still suffer mind shrapnel more than 30 years out.
If you really believe that we should all sit with our heads hung in shame and pretend that the abuses didn’t exist, shame on YOU.
Yes, I am exceptionally upset today because I saw a woman who sat here in our office today and hid her face with her hair while a man told her not to tell me her nickname but her true name. After they left the office I said to my business partner “he beats her” he said “I was just going to say that to you.”
Who the HELL do you think you are to judge those who have finally gathered together the courage to speak out against the abuses they suffered for so many years?
DM is a bad person. Why do I know that? I’ve met him. I know that from FIRST HAND experience. There you go. Perhaps you should read a few (thousand) more of the incidences and books, etc. before you start passing judgment on the people who are finally speaking out.
IMHO, you are as bad as the people you purport to “teach” by passing judgment on people who are finally being brave enough to speak out.
@Valerie, what the heck are you talking about? Did you read all my comments? That is the total opposite of what I was saying. I absolutely think EVERYONE should be able to judge this cult’s abusive behavior as bad, not JUST the people who experienced it, but ANYONE who is upset by terrible injustice. I was responding to some comments that seemed to express the idea that ONLY those with direct firsthand knowledge of these situations are in the position to judge at all and I disagreed with that. I feel justified in believing DM is evil incarnate, even though I have never met him. Same with Harvey Wienstein. That may be me trying them in the court of public opinion, with no real proof, but I’m ok with that. I believe those who have spoken out against the abuses.
Context: I started this commentary when Aquamarine expressed distaste for people on this forum judging Paul Haggis or his accusers or deciding they were guilty or not because we don’t really know what happened. Although I agree it’s a potentially dangerous thing to do because it could ruin reputations of perhaps innocent people, I then realized I do the same thing with CoS. I don’t have firsthand experience with their abuses, but yet I still feel strongly that the people that come out to tell their stories about the abuse are telling the truth and I do judge CoS harshly. I think it is necessary for the whole society to be able to judge (get horrified/outraged/upset) when they are faced with a mountain of evidence that something is very wrong. It’s necessary for those who were abused to testify and necessary for the rest of the world to hear it and take action if they believe it to be true, like demanding the IRS take away CoS tax exemption, demanding changes in our laws that favor abusers, etc. It’s possible some people could get judged unfairly by a false accusation, obviously a bad thing. But it’s also bad if we can’t judge anybody or anything unless we have absolute certainty, like a criminal conviction. If we waited for that to happen, cases would just disappear and public outrage could never be made to bear pressure on a corrupt system and demand it be better.
Maybe my posts run on too long for anyone to get my point or even want to read the whole thing. I don’t blame you. I am not judging anyone here, only CoS, DM and other abusers. I just thought it was a really interesting philosophical point, to balance an impulse to judge too quickly/unfairly against the need to judge at times in order to make positive change.
Dwarmed, it appears I started all this 🙂
Now, I understand your point and don’t disagree. I personally was never abused physically by DM or anyone in Scientology, nor was I mentally abused. Lied to, swindled, yes, abused, no. And yet I still believe that David Miscavige is an evil abuser even though I’ve never witnessed it or experienced it myself. Here’s why:
Since 2010 I’ve been reading a lot about Scientology. I’ve read pretty much everything there is to read on the internet and in books and in articles on Scientology.
And as you know there are hundreds of stories out there detailing the abuses sustained by ex-staff and ex-SO.
Yet NOWHERE have I EVER read or heard ONE ex-SO or ex-staff say, “You know, I worked around him and he was fine to me. He didn’t scream, didn’t punish people all the time, didn’t beat anyone, never beat me. He was a good boss, a nice man”.
The only people who praise DM are those who are still in. No- one, NOT ONE SINGLE PERSON of whom I’m aware, who is not OUT of Scientology, has anything good to say about David Miscavige or RTC.
Curious, eh? You’d think there’d be SOMEBODY out of Scientology who’d say, “You know, I’m not a part of it anymore but I had a good experience with Miscavige. I liked working under him. I don’t understand why people bad mouth him. He was fine to me and I never witnessed any abuse”.
Not one single person.
Coincidence? Theoretically, yes. But if he were a decent man you’d think SOMEBODY would stand up for him, SOMEBODY who is OUT of Scientology now, but with good memories of staff or SO experience.
Yes, @Aquamarine. That was my point exactly. I think when the evidence is so overwhelming, it’s impossible to deny the truth. Especially when people coming forward have so much more to lose than gain. Anyone coming out against CoS earns the enduring harassment of a billion dollar monster and there’s nothing to gain to compensate for that. So I believe them.
I feel the same way about the sex abuse cases in Hollywood. Although I don’t think we (the public) can say for certain what the truth is in any particular case, we can say there is a huge problem there and I tend to believe accusers. I only tend to doubt the Paul Haggis accusations because it sounds like CoS dirty tricks. With someone like Weinstein, I feel comfortable deciding he is a total scumbag, due to the enormous amount of evidence supporting that.
dwarmed, your type of loopy “logic” is why tyrants exist for any prolonged period of time. And YES, I did read and understand what you wrote.
@Wynski Please explain how what I said allows tyrants to exist, when I am saying people should take a stand against it. I wish our system would provide justice for victims, but it usually doesn’t. I don’t think you understand what I wrote at all.
@Wynski If it helps, my initial comment was meant as sarcasm, as explained in subsequent comments.
The truth shall reveal itself eventually, it always does. to me
There was always what was known as the “Hollywood Casting Couch” where a young, beautiful female was given the opportunity to get into show business IF she “cooperated. No doubt there were & still are females who would do what they had to do to get anywhere in the movie business.
Sexual assault was not viewed in the past the same way it was today, if one reported a sexual assault, they more or less bore the brunt of what happened to them as in “you were alone with him in his hotel room, what did you THINK would happen”….or “you went out with him & got drunk, it’s your own fault”……
Today the trauma of a past sexual assault that was placed in a drawer that was slammed closed & buried in the past have come to light of day. The SHAME, embarrassment & GUILT some of these women have carried for years is now out for public display.
The truth eventually comes out, we can only hope that Paul Haggis IS NOT one of those perpetrators.
“…you were alone with him in his hotel room what did you THINK would happen”…or “you went out with him & got drunk, it’s your own fault”…
Balletlady, at the risk of bringing the wrath of many down on me, I’m going to share the following:
1) When I was 15, my father permitted me to drink alcohol at home if I wanted to, so that I wouldn’t need to REBEL against being not allowed, and go out with friends to do it, or on dates with boys, during which I’d get drunk and go out of control. Not to mention drunk in a car with a boy driving who was also drunk, something that could get us both killed. My father KNEW what would happen, he KNEW the risks a young girl took when she got drunk with a guy. He KNEW how vulnerable that made her, so he permitted me to drink AT HOME with him there, and in that way took AWAY all the fun and sin and excitement of sneaking around to do it. Of course I tried everything, every drink, every concoction at home (he had a little bar set up ) and basically didn’t like it much. Drinking became immediately something that was “no big deal”. I was allowed! And I didn’t like it much anyway, so I didn’t need to go out and get drunk. Sure, I’d go out and there’d be plenty of drinking but I was not vulnerable because I’d nurse one drink most of the night. Plenty of times I’d be the one to drive everyone else home.
2) Not long after being given permission to drink at home, he let me know that at some point I might want to have sex. He said that was OK but that I should “use common sense” which was his WASP-speak for using protection. In high school I had a boyfriend, one boyfriend and we were together for 2 years and he loved me and was very respectful of me and would NEVER do anything I didn’t want him to do physically. When I was 18 and he was 19 we had sex and it was my first time and it was my decision and I already had had permission from my father for to do it since I was 16! Point being, I didn’t have to have sex because I wasn’t allowed.
My father was unusual, I grant you. But then, I had no mother at that point, and he was a realist, and at the same time not by nature inclined to helicopter over me so he mostly gave me lots of freedom and trust, appealed to whatever basic common sense I had, and hoped for the best! He taught me to take care of myself with men this way.
VERY long story short, NEVER have I ever been under ANY illusions about what would be likely to happen if on a date or for any reason I would go to a man’s hotel room , and/or if would go on a date and get out of control drunk! Same thing with clothing: we ALL knew, back in the day, not to dress a certain way, if we didn’t want to attract certain types of attention or remarks from men! This was Common Sense 101, back in the day!
OK, end or rant. I guess that’s what this has been. And none of the above should be interpreted as condoning or excusing rape – please!
Old Surfer Dude says
I totally agree with you, Mike. When the story broke, I immediately thought of Scientology. This is something they would do.
Thank you for this!
In recent months, it feels dangerous from a PR perspective & especially a personal one to come out with another perspective when these accusations have come about. Yet the timing on this, Paul’s immediate response to not cower or ignore… Then suddenly, viola, here are three more.
Yet this is far after when most other women came out. The whole thing stinks & I thank you for pointing this out to those not familiar with the CO$ playbook or who think it’s somehow in the past.
This took courage to post & its just one of many reasons why I respect you & your character!
It is also a few steps behind Netflix decision about Danny M.
Old Surfer Dude says
Masterson still hasn’t been arrested?
OSD, I don’t think so. They wrote him out of his show.
Old Surfer Dude says
What…no jail time?