Love this installment! Please notice delusional thinking prior to knowledge report. My very good buddy, Joel X, KR’d me for smoking some pot at a party. It was he who handed me the joint but he had an amends project which was expedited by snitching on me. I informed him our friendship was over and that I was going to get some auditing at the Free Zone just in case he doubted I was serious. (I did get some FZ auditing to seal the deal with the CoS) But what astounded me was that my reaction took him completely by surprise!
I’m not so smart, really. Lucky, no doubt, and blessed maybe. But real smart is left for the wanting. I just happened to ask a good question at the right moment, then had the resolve to keep looking for an answer.
1974.
I’m approached by a guy with a smile that was just a little too clean, telling me he had the answers. I said, no, you don’t. If you had the answers to my problems, I would know it already, dipshit.
(sorry, it was just too fun to add that last, didn’t really happen). The point is, I was skeptical, and that’s what saved me, after I was trapped, a most noteable factor in the sequence, after I was trapped. Smart? Well, if you say so, but I say there’s room there, there is still an empty part, or void, that my smart is yet outside of.
Beware of such voids, for if there is an entity in that void that entity has the power to control you to the degree that you knowingly or unwittingly allow him, or it, thing of your imagination. There is a way to protect yourself from such a danger, and large that danger is. And, it is simple, a simple thing to do. So simple in fact I won’t tell you too quickly lest you forget, lest I insult the intelligence you do possess. Instead, I’ll take my long walk just about now, very much needed, and leave you with a quote from my favorite philosopher, still, Albert Einstein. Goes as:
For the scientific method can teach us nothing else beyond how facts are related to, and conditioned by, each other. The aspiration toward such objective knowledge belongs to the highest of which man is capable, and you will certainly not suspect me of wishing to belittle the achievements and the heroic efforts of man in this sphere. Yet is equally clear that knowledge of what is does not open the door directly to what should be. One can have the clearest and most complete knowledge of what is , and yet not be able to deduct from that what should be the goal of our human aspirations. Objective knowledge provides us with powerful instruments for the achievements of certain ends, but the ultimate goal itself and the longing to reach it must come from another source. And it is hardly necessary to argue for the view that our existence and our activity acquire meaning only by the setting up of such a goal and of corresponding values. (Albert Einstein, 1939)
Now,
that’s not me, I just struggle to understand.
What he is telling me there is:
Question everything.
(yeah, I couldn’t hold that back, simple as it is)
But, a few words that really stick out for me in that marvelous paragraph are:
“…must come from another source.”
You have to laugh, when you compare that to the Hubbard opinion.
Well, that was a little confusing,huh?
And silly me again, I assumed everyone would know exactly what my shot at Hubbard’s opinion exactly was and is, again stupid.
I should add the last sentence now*, for comparison on what I perceive Hubbards opinion would be in contrast to that sample in quotes, um, I do see that as being “…must come from me.”, which is hysteria, again in the relentless stylings of our Lost Messiah, whos name I just don’t care to speak. -mm
Speak all ye, in the campaine to be Understood. Love out to Ann straight from the out-1D
;D
*[ …and the evil overlord of souls, his voice equally menacing as his para-military garb, shiney sword with Golden brace, stands above the multitudes, all eyes upon him, says “I am source.” ]
-Thanks Einstein. I get it.
(I think I do, ha.)
I have been reading scientogy books and listening to lectures for 30 years now and I have never come across anything about communicating with spirits in anything I have studied on scientology in that time period. !
Doloras, I am most pleased to make your acquiantance. Why don’t you join Ann and myself for some spirits and perhaps candlelight… conversation. I can’t help but admire your foto, constantly. Perhaps we could compare sketches, the three of us, say, my place? Did you say thetan? I love it when you talk dirty.
“Those guys will think twice before writing anymore bad stuff about us again.” Sadly, I bet many out there think that when the reality is the reporting of the “bad stuff” is more copious than it ever has been before. And — it’s only multiplying. (Maybe 47x and straight up and vertical.)
Bad stuff meet the age of the Internet. Internet met the bad stuff alleged about CoS….oh wait…that is a well established acquaintance with no signs of “disconnection” on the horizon.
RB, you set the bar, my friend. As a cartoonist, satirical caricaturist myself, I salute your incisive lampooning with graphic simplicity! –That even (especially) a bubble dweller would at the very least, if grudgingly, have to admit as the stark truth! Great job done, by superbly communicating the harsh realities of this reeling, lurching church of the DMon.
Flag staff don’t get near a newspaper, radio or television. They are transported back and forth to work every day and are watched over at all times. The only information they get is what is fed them as approved by Miscavige and his flying monkeys. If you did a survey of the 1,000 staff at Flag and asked them who was the Vice President of the United States, I guarantee at least 85% wouldn’t know. Maybe even 95%.
Hi Mat Pesch,Those flying monkeys absolutely terrified me as a kid and an adult.Now I know why.They work full time for David Miscavige! I never saw TV,read a newspaper or mag for four years.The only difference was I had to take the city buses in Hollywood but most times the Sea Org Uniform kept all but the total crazies away.Always Ann.
That’s because 85 to 95% of Sea Borg at Flag are from other countries. If you say the words “Joe Biden” to them, they’ll probably ask if he’s an OTV and an IAS Patron.
Nailed it again RB.
Scientology, giving mental a bad name.
Don’t you just love the concept, “if you’re not a scientologist you’re wrong!” Splurge on it…
Pouw then said Jackson was telling people he was communicating with the dead, including Hubbard. That indicates he is “delusional” and “certifiably insane,” Says a women who signed BILLION year contract.
YEAH, THAT IS HOW IT GOES. ONE DAY THE GREATEST BEING THERE IS, AND THE NEXT YOU ARE AN SP. JUST LIKE THAT. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO GET DECLARED AND NOT BE BOTHERED ANYMORE IS TO SAY HELLO TO MIKE RINDER AND THAT’S IT. BOOM YOU ARE AN SP. IT’S A JOKE
My dad used to do that, write everything in capitols. I would get bugged about it.
The audience becomes numb after awhile, you know…
That was the idea behind bull-baiting, right?, the “Training Routines, to make you numb.
“Oh no man!!! Don’t take this like an invalidation, but you are so totally wrong” – Good one, RB. This is symptomatic of the cognitive dissonance.
An OTVIII who is at cause over life one day, is an SP the next day. Is it the tech that made him lose it? Was he always an SP and no-one noticed through all those elig cycles? There just is not a “good” answer to that question anyway you cut it.
I always found it curious that LRH said that Suppressive Persons occurred in the general population a a rate of 2 to 3 % while somewhere around 50% of all long time Scientologists and “OT’s” were eventually Declared by the “Church.”
Hi I Yawnalot, You are so right with your post! When there is a buck to be had David Miscavige can swoop in and grab it before one knows it is gone.Now that’s Magic With Money!Love all your posts.Always Ann.
OSD, you are bit off base. TONS of the people who worked with Hubbard <'70 (those who made St. Hill boom) were declared with HUBBARD's knowledge while he was still alive.
Remember, Mayo, who saved El Con's life was also an SP per El Con. I DO agree that it was criminal to help keep him alive.
No, OSD. Many/most were declared while DM was just a kid or a young staff member. El Con was WELL known for off’ing people who he thought were too popular with staff and public…
TESTIFY jrfool, go ye forth to the mountain and TESTIFY,
(the mighty mountain here being nicely convenient)
Thanks for that 8 out of ten of the first 100 ratio, it will stick in my mind.
John Locke, can you back up that number?, I need a second source.
Somebody.
That’s what I thought, Gimpy. However, was it Hubbard (who was in seclusion) or DLHDM? I keep thinking it was the dwarf. I’d really like to get some clarification on this issue. DLHDM started taking over in ’82 with the mission holder slaughter.
Now, John Locke says it was Hubbard who declared everyone. I really don’t know.
Pierre Ethier, an LRH-trained Class XII like Karen DLC, once made a list like that out, and it turns out that 48 of the first 50 Clears were declared SP at some point, mostly while Hubbard was still alive.
Hi OSD, I think you do not need to stand corrected about anything.You are a great poster and I love hearing from you on whatever you want to say.You have helped me more than you know.XO to you two, Ann.
Mark Marcosays
noted, thank you, gracias Espiando…I’m always looking for proof the tech does not work, you know, imagining I’m being attacked by the bubbleheads on live TV, which is funny. Some things you know just ain’t gonna happen. I could attacked, I suppose. But if live television is involved I’ll most likely have to provide my own camera. Thanks for the ammo.
ps
In the real world, btw, I operate from the assumpton that the tech, in its entirety, does not work, then apply the critical method to find a datum to refute it, knowing I’m far better off from that angle. Naturally, a Scn-gist angle would take the opposite view. I am prepared to destroy that view.
Cindysays
Yes, it is amazing how many OT VII and VIII’s are later declared for just saying “hello” to Mike Rinder or Marty Rathbun or others. In talking to a SO member after my declare, she said that it isn’t that you were an SP all along, but rather than you are now doing Suppressive Acts like speaking out. Yet when you read the Creed of a Scientologist, it says that we are free to read and comment upon the works of others. Apparently they don’t follow LRH on that one.
My friend (an OT8) also commented to me to not ask for my money back that I have on services because if I did he would not longer be able to talk to me and it wasn’t worth our friendship. I just kept quiet.
Cindy said, “Yes, it is amazing how many OT VII and VIII’s are later declared for just saying “hello” to Mike Rinder or Marty Rathbun or others. ”
Why would you be amazed Cindy? That is a suppressive act and per El Con is an offense that someone can be declared SP for. LONG standing policy (HCO PL).
Cindy, thanks. This reveals to me more evidence of trickery on the part of the church. Now I would have to prove those words to be malicious deciet, words penned and printed by LRH. A person declared for that reason, (viewing other sources) would do just that, and thanks again.
Declaring OTs has to be counter productive for the church. It is again difficult to believe, the actual demonstrated ineptitude of this so-called leader, and his rampant personal destruction of his sacred house. Makes my job all the easier.
Wendy M- you just presented the question I keep asking myself. How could so many OT’s (whatever level) or even clears be in for 15, 20 or 30 years) and leave and be declared an SP or sent to that hell hole place.
Was an SP and the church found never out before .. what a tech .. does not work well in all ways .. how is it possible to find an OT VIII as a suppressive .. who is crazy here ..
This makes me wonder (as a “never in”) though : Do Scientologists who are still in have revealing conversations like this with each other, in which there is a disagreement that ensues, and one or both parties inadvertently reveal something that is on their minds that isn’t “Party Line” that later merits a Knowledge Report and inevitable grilling by church authorities?
Seems to me that with the increased group paranoia fostered by DM these days, it would lead most members to be REALLY “guarded” about what they say to each other, for fear of being sec checked, etc.
I suppose people still slip up now and then and say things that get them in trouble within CO$, but I wonder if overall the members these days are much more tight-lipped and careful in what they say to each other?
Hi Bruce, A great question.I can’t begin to know the answer today bloggers who know could help me with that,but if I was a still in and still alive in Sea Org,today I would never open my mouth! Between cameras in auditing rooms and probably a lot of other places David Miscavige is all eyes and ears I would surmise.Always Ann B.
Hi Ed, Good to meet you.I understand where you are coming from.However for me from 78 – 2015 when Mike’s Blog and I connected I was under,over and through the radar.I kept my Sea Org story to myself for years.Well I’ve told it all here and each day I feel that I did the absolutely right step.Times can still get hard, nightmares and such but the sunlight of telling all is beautiful. Always, Ann.
Bruce, to answer your question, I don’t know about SO members, but I imagine they are scared to death to talk about anything that isn’t DM approved. As a former public, I can tell you that only two years ago, my best friend came to my house and demanded to get on my computer, after which she brought up every email written to or from her and erased them so as to remove all traces that she had ever discussed Debbie Cook’s New Year’s Eve email. She said that her husband and her had actually emailed Debbie telling her that they believed her and supported her and knew her from their days in Charlotte, North Carolina and knew she was “a good girl.” She erased that and then said to come to her car to talk with the windows up. She was afraid my house was bugged. So in her car with the windows up, she told me that she wished DM was dead and that someone would take him out “for hurting our church like he’s done.” Strong words. Yet her next step was to tell our other mutual KA drinking friend that she had disconnected from me because I was disaffected. And then she went on to route onto a Div 6 correspondence course so that it looked like she was “on course” and active as an OT VII, and that because she’d disconnected from me (while I was still in good standing), that proved her loyalty to DM and all things DM. That is how 1.1 and paranoid some public were 2 years ago. The whole DM regime breeds 1.1 Covert Hostility because no one dares come out and say anything. I can only imagine it has gotten worse in recent times.
God, what a story Cindy. I recall in your exit story you said that one of your friends told you that she hated David Miscavige. How can she still be in the church? She must not be very active and like you said, doing home extension courses to keep up the pretense. A painful existence.
BTW, I know someone who is going through something like what you did right now. There are spies in the guise of ‘friends’ and ‘public’. This person has been warned, now if only they would listen.
Hi Pepper,I agree so with your post.A very young Ann found all that out the hard way.Would that your friend would take heed of your very wise words.Love,Ann.
Similar scenario in the early 40s in Nazi Germany if you mentioned foul of da Fuhrer. Back then they shot you, with the Cof$ the bullets are declares and sec checks.
In every sense imaginable scientology is the best example of a dictatorship presently on the planet. Yet they are advertising and selling you freedom. Self-determinism is the alleged goal of all auditing – yeah right… and miscavige is their top auditor like Hubbard was in his time.
Nothing about organisational scientology has your best interests at heart, nothing! But if someone gave you a flyer on it you could light your pile of leaves with it.
“Pouw then said Jackson was telling people he was communicating with the dead, including Hubbard. That indicates he is ‘delusional’ and ‘certifiably insane,’ Says a church that has a BILLION YEAR contract!
…and requires you, on OT3 up to OT 7 to talk to disembodied space aliens, or as Bruce put it, “space cooties.” And what’s this about Hubbard being dead? I thought he was alive and well at Target 2? What am I missing here? Ms. Pouw, are you delusional? Or, maybe you haven’t done OT 3 yet? Would you like to tell you what it’s all about? Yes? Well, sit back and relax. You see, 75 million years ago…….
LMFAO!!! Still laughing! I can just see him now: (cough, cough, wheeze, sniffle, cough…Wel, cough, whezze, come to Wal, wheeze, cough, mart. Gasp, gasp, fart, gasp…please pick up the cans…
Create an enemy to have an enemy.
hat’s been around day one and
after the discovery that the best way to control people
is to lie about them.
Bigger the lie the more effective
(never use small lies)
Dear Henry,
Yes, this is the GO/OSA playbook.
But really the credit goes to Adolf Hitler who wrote
the ‘Big Lie Theory’. B1 in the GO only borrowed it.
In re: Jim Jackson, of all the folks left alive, Mr. Jackson would know where the bulk of the skeletons are hidden. Particularly the for profit corporations that sprang up as needed, and disappeared just as quickly. IMO, Mr. Miscavige has nothing in the “Torah” or the “Talmud” he can lean on to justify abusing Mr. Jackson.
True, but he’s got his version of the Hadith, the Sayings Of The Profit. L. Fraud must have wrote something about abusing his former accountant. He said shit about everything else, up to and including the proper way to clean windows.
RB, you have great insight into the minds and hearts of Scientologists. Here you showed two sides of where a Scientologist can live, and it can be a little schizophrenic. Have a great day 🙂
Yep that guy on the right is a model scientologist. I have family and friends who felt the way the guy on the right did and stayed in after reading off the church’s banned materials. Those are the ones that really scare me and I mean the kind that scare me in life – no conviction, no loyalty but to themselves, no value on personal integrity – life’s just an ride they got on and they’re happy to let someone else steer. Living dead is what I call that though I’m sure it’s a bit bitchy and a down right wrong generalization for many but for the most part I think it’s how it is.
Yup. I know someone “still In” who knows about the abuses at the top (in fact, his own son was beaten up at INT and in the RPF’s RPF, before he left the SO and is still active himself), has had 40 intensives of sec checking as his last auditing, has disconnected from his boyhood friend, disconnected from two step sons he helped raise, etc. (there is a lot more) and who just recently, I got a text from him saying he would like nothing more to communicate with me but his mentor is LRH and it says plainly in Green on White, I need to do A-E. One doesn’t get much lower than that.
McCarran, talk about hitting rock bottom. The guy is in total delusion and it’s sad. People like this are reinforcing the ethos of the cult and are a bad influence for others around them. He did you a favor. Maybe one day you can do one for him when he needs it and is remorseful.
RB has pretty much covered the mindset of those who are left stuck in the cherch of latter day planet savers. A sad and yet dangerous group who have tossed their own moral compass into the abyss.
Know them for who they are. Trust them to follow and believe in their mentors. Their actions will likely cause pain and destruction for those they come in contact with. Fortunately the members of the Cult are easy to identify and avoid!
Hi McCarran, So sad but I knew some in like that too.An old saying Blood will out and those who cannot ever ever let go of Ron or David or cos will never know the healing power of change.I realize now Ron did not carve his words in stone,he did and said what he wanted,when he wanted.Also this just made me recall in 75 there was talk of carving all Ron’s words about Scientology on stone pillars around the world so future generations could see how great he was!I’m not sure that one got off The Sea Org drawing board but I could definitely be wrong.Always Ann.
Gayle, I like your term “living dead” in the context you used. It is true. It also made me think of how I use the the term ‘a living death’ to describe the practice of disconnection.
And no, you are not a generalizing bee-otch for saying what you said. You were very specific 🙂
Fricken Hysterical RB! A CLEAR example of how Scientology creates so much conflict in member’s lives. Scientology IS THE 3rd Party to ALL CONFLICT~ It is such a hateful group of people pretending to be “theta” but LOVE is repelled in this group. They really have audited out any care, any love or any “theta”.
Hi Idle Morgue, You speak the truth.All care, love, and theta got washed down the drain quite some time ago.RB is so amazing every Fri I receive so much from the body of incredible work that we are gifted with here. Love,Ann.
This scenario must be playing out in one form or another almost everyday now. I cannot imagine what it took/takes to be in the Church over the last 2 decades.
She’s at it 24/7 every fucking day?……huh?
Old timers disease? Now wait a minute buddy I can still kick your young ass! I promise you will go exterior with full perceptics. And when I’m done I’ll send your pummeled body to the MAA and let them figure it out.
DM writing as Karin Pouw can’t duplicate the truth. Jim Jackson doesn’t have Altzheimer’s. But I heard that his former partner, Marty Greenburg, the other founder of Greenburg and Jackson CPA firm, does have Altzheimers. So Karen, as LRH says in green on white, similarities are not identities. To further prove that his mind if sharp, Jim Jackson had a doctor test him and do an MRI on him and both tests came out 100% good. His mind is sharp and he has no disease of it. Spreading the rumor that it is opposite this is jus the church doing Black PR to smear an opponent, and they didn’t even get that right as it is his former partner that is afflicted and not him.
Hi Cindy, Yes isn’t that Black PR the best smear tech known! Both my late parents passed from terrible forms of Altzheimers and I would not wish their brain deterioration on anyone ever.To say Mr. Jackson has it when he does not is a crime in my way of thinking about it.But again that Old Black PR really makes me know why I now call The Church a Cult.Those that practice it are very out of touch and frightening to me.I know.Always Ann.
Yes, Ann, right out of the GO and OSA playbook that if you can’t dig up real dirt on your attackers, then lie and fabricate it and shout it from the rooftops… and they call this a church…
RogerHornaday says
Love this installment! Please notice delusional thinking prior to knowledge report. My very good buddy, Joel X, KR’d me for smoking some pot at a party. It was he who handed me the joint but he had an amends project which was expedited by snitching on me. I informed him our friendship was over and that I was going to get some auditing at the Free Zone just in case he doubted I was serious. (I did get some FZ auditing to seal the deal with the CoS) But what astounded me was that my reaction took him completely by surprise!
Mark Marco says
I’m not so smart, really. Lucky, no doubt, and blessed maybe. But real smart is left for the wanting. I just happened to ask a good question at the right moment, then had the resolve to keep looking for an answer.
1974.
I’m approached by a guy with a smile that was just a little too clean, telling me he had the answers. I said, no, you don’t. If you had the answers to my problems, I would know it already, dipshit.
(sorry, it was just too fun to add that last, didn’t really happen). The point is, I was skeptical, and that’s what saved me, after I was trapped, a most noteable factor in the sequence, after I was trapped. Smart? Well, if you say so, but I say there’s room there, there is still an empty part, or void, that my smart is yet outside of.
Beware of such voids, for if there is an entity in that void that entity has the power to control you to the degree that you knowingly or unwittingly allow him, or it, thing of your imagination. There is a way to protect yourself from such a danger, and large that danger is. And, it is simple, a simple thing to do. So simple in fact I won’t tell you too quickly lest you forget, lest I insult the intelligence you do possess. Instead, I’ll take my long walk just about now, very much needed, and leave you with a quote from my favorite philosopher, still, Albert Einstein. Goes as:
For the scientific method can teach us nothing else beyond how facts are related to, and conditioned by, each other. The aspiration toward such objective knowledge belongs to the highest of which man is capable, and you will certainly not suspect me of wishing to belittle the achievements and the heroic efforts of man in this sphere. Yet is equally clear that knowledge of what is does not open the door directly to what should be. One can have the clearest and most complete knowledge of what is , and yet not be able to deduct from that what should be the goal of our human aspirations. Objective knowledge provides us with powerful instruments for the achievements of certain ends, but the ultimate goal itself and the longing to reach it must come from another source. And it is hardly necessary to argue for the view that our existence and our activity acquire meaning only by the setting up of such a goal and of corresponding values. (Albert Einstein, 1939)
Now,
that’s not me, I just struggle to understand.
What he is telling me there is:
Question everything.
(yeah, I couldn’t hold that back, simple as it is)
But, a few words that really stick out for me in that marvelous paragraph are:
“…must come from another source.”
You have to laugh, when you compare that to the Hubbard opinion.
Mark Marco says
Well, that was a little confusing,huh?
And silly me again, I assumed everyone would know exactly what my shot at Hubbard’s opinion exactly was and is, again stupid.
I should add the last sentence now*, for comparison on what I perceive Hubbards opinion would be in contrast to that sample in quotes, um, I do see that as being “…must come from me.”, which is hysteria, again in the relentless stylings of our Lost Messiah, whos name I just don’t care to speak. -mm
Speak all ye, in the campaine to be Understood. Love out to Ann straight from the out-1D
;D
*[ …and the evil overlord of souls, his voice equally menacing as his para-military garb, shiney sword with Golden brace, stands above the multitudes, all eyes upon him, says “I am source.” ]
-Thanks Einstein. I get it.
(I think I do, ha.)
Ann B Watson says
Hi Mark Marco, As usual a thoughtful post.That out-1D love just rang the door bell. Thank you the package glowed like moonlight.XO Ann.
ealadha says
I have been reading scientogy books and listening to lectures for 30 years now and I have never come across anything about communicating with spirits in anything I have studied on scientology in that time period. !
Doloras LaPicho says
So you’re not OT3 yet? “Spirit” means the same thing as “thetan”.
Ann B Watson says
Hi Doloras LaPicho, Thank you for your post.You always make great comments and sense.Always,Ann.
Mark Marco says
Doloras, I am most pleased to make your acquiantance. Why don’t you join Ann and myself for some spirits and perhaps candlelight… conversation. I can’t help but admire your foto, constantly. Perhaps we could compare sketches, the three of us, say, my place? Did you say thetan? I love it when you talk dirty.
Wille AKA Good Old Boy says
Karen P. surly SCOHB. That’s a given man! I can see DLHDM throwing darts at her pie face now. Wow what a circus. Theta Avengers! my ass.
Bravebloggers says
“Those guys will think twice before writing anymore bad stuff about us again.” Sadly, I bet many out there think that when the reality is the reporting of the “bad stuff” is more copious than it ever has been before. And — it’s only multiplying. (Maybe 47x and straight up and vertical.)
Bad stuff meet the age of the Internet. Internet met the bad stuff alleged about CoS….oh wait…that is a well established acquaintance with no signs of “disconnection” on the horizon.
RMycroft says
And “Karin Pouw” doesn’t think at all before burping out one of those responses.
racingintheblood39 says
RB, you set the bar, my friend. As a cartoonist, satirical caricaturist myself, I salute your incisive lampooning with graphic simplicity! –That even (especially) a bubble dweller would at the very least, if grudgingly, have to admit as the stark truth! Great job done, by superbly communicating the harsh realities of this reeling, lurching church of the DMon.
Mat Pesch says
Flag staff don’t get near a newspaper, radio or television. They are transported back and forth to work every day and are watched over at all times. The only information they get is what is fed them as approved by Miscavige and his flying monkeys. If you did a survey of the 1,000 staff at Flag and asked them who was the Vice President of the United States, I guarantee at least 85% wouldn’t know. Maybe even 95%.
Ann B Watson says
Hi Mat Pesch,Those flying monkeys absolutely terrified me as a kid and an adult.Now I know why.They work full time for David Miscavige! I never saw TV,read a newspaper or mag for four years.The only difference was I had to take the city buses in Hollywood but most times the Sea Org Uniform kept all but the total crazies away.Always Ann.
Espiando says
That’s because 85 to 95% of Sea Borg at Flag are from other countries. If you say the words “Joe Biden” to them, they’ll probably ask if he’s an OTV and an IAS Patron.
hgc10 says
Can’t they find out the VP of the US from one of those HCO PLs?
I Yawnalot says
Nailed it again RB.
Scientology, giving mental a bad name.
Don’t you just love the concept, “if you’re not a scientologist you’re wrong!” Splurge on it…
MostEthicalPimp says
Pouw then said Jackson was telling people he was communicating with the dead, including Hubbard. That indicates he is “delusional” and “certifiably insane,” Says a women who signed BILLION year contract.
I Yawnalot says
And plays navy 24/7.
teddy bears says
YEAH, THAT IS HOW IT GOES. ONE DAY THE GREATEST BEING THERE IS, AND THE NEXT YOU ARE AN SP. JUST LIKE THAT. ALL YOU HAVE TO DO GET DECLARED AND NOT BE BOTHERED ANYMORE IS TO SAY HELLO TO MIKE RINDER AND THAT’S IT. BOOM YOU ARE AN SP. IT’S A JOKE
Mark Marco says
My dad used to do that, write everything in capitols. I would get bugged about it.
The audience becomes numb after awhile, you know…
That was the idea behind bull-baiting, right?, the “Training Routines, to make you numb.
Wendy M says
“Oh no man!!! Don’t take this like an invalidation, but you are so totally wrong” – Good one, RB. This is symptomatic of the cognitive dissonance.
An OTVIII who is at cause over life one day, is an SP the next day. Is it the tech that made him lose it? Was he always an SP and no-one noticed through all those elig cycles? There just is not a “good” answer to that question anyway you cut it.
Moonshot says
I always found it curious that LRH said that Suppressive Persons occurred in the general population a a rate of 2 to 3 % while somewhere around 50% of all long time Scientologists and “OT’s” were eventually Declared by the “Church.”
TrevAnon says
It may be possible that SP’s more than other people are inclined to join the COS, get discovered and declared. 🙂
The COS has a long way to go if 2-3% of the general population actually is an SP, as that would be at least 147 mln people.
http://www.worldometers.info/world-population/
Old Surfer Dude says
I may be way off base with this, but, didn’t DLHDM declare something like 90% of all the people who once worked with Hubbard?
I Yawnalot says
He’d declare Hubbard too if there’s a buck in it.
Ann B Watson says
Hi I Yawnalot, You are so right with your post! When there is a buck to be had David Miscavige can swoop in and grab it before one knows it is gone.Now that’s Magic With Money!Love all your posts.Always Ann.
Old Surfer Dude says
You mean there’s not? Boy, that’s going to piss him off…..
John Locke says
OSD, you are bit off base. TONS of the people who worked with Hubbard <'70 (those who made St. Hill boom) were declared with HUBBARD's knowledge while he was still alive.
Remember, Mayo, who saved El Con's life was also an SP per El Con. I DO agree that it was criminal to help keep him alive.
Old Surfer Dude says
My bad then. But, didn’t DLHDM have Hubbard’s ear at the time, John?
John Locke says
No, OSD. Many/most were declared while DM was just a kid or a young staff member. El Con was WELL known for off’ing people who he thought were too popular with staff and public…
Gimpy says
I’ve definitely seen a list of names which supports your statement – people who worked with Hubbard – nearly all have since been declared.
jrfool says
If memory serves…… something like 80 of the first 100 Clears were declared. Thou shall have no god(s) other than LRH.
Mark Marco says
TESTIFY jrfool, go ye forth to the mountain and TESTIFY,
(the mighty mountain here being nicely convenient)
Thanks for that 8 out of ten of the first 100 ratio, it will stick in my mind.
John Locke, can you back up that number?, I need a second source.
Somebody.
Old Surfer Dude says
That’s what I thought, Gimpy. However, was it Hubbard (who was in seclusion) or DLHDM? I keep thinking it was the dwarf. I’d really like to get some clarification on this issue. DLHDM started taking over in ’82 with the mission holder slaughter.
Now, John Locke says it was Hubbard who declared everyone. I really don’t know.
Espiando says
Pierre Ethier, an LRH-trained Class XII like Karen DLC, once made a list like that out, and it turns out that 48 of the first 50 Clears were declared SP at some point, mostly while Hubbard was still alive.
Old Surfer Dude says
I, once again, stand corrected.
Ann B Watson says
Hi OSD, I think you do not need to stand corrected about anything.You are a great poster and I love hearing from you on whatever you want to say.You have helped me more than you know.XO to you two, Ann.
Mark Marco says
noted, thank you, gracias Espiando…I’m always looking for proof the tech does not work, you know, imagining I’m being attacked by the bubbleheads on live TV, which is funny. Some things you know just ain’t gonna happen. I could attacked, I suppose. But if live television is involved I’ll most likely have to provide my own camera. Thanks for the ammo.
Mark Marco says
ps
In the real world, btw, I operate from the assumpton that the tech, in its entirety, does not work, then apply the critical method to find a datum to refute it, knowing I’m far better off from that angle. Naturally, a Scn-gist angle would take the opposite view. I am prepared to destroy that view.
Cindy says
Yes, it is amazing how many OT VII and VIII’s are later declared for just saying “hello” to Mike Rinder or Marty Rathbun or others. In talking to a SO member after my declare, she said that it isn’t that you were an SP all along, but rather than you are now doing Suppressive Acts like speaking out. Yet when you read the Creed of a Scientologist, it says that we are free to read and comment upon the works of others. Apparently they don’t follow LRH on that one.
Pete2 says
My friend (an OT8) also commented to me to not ask for my money back that I have on services because if I did he would not longer be able to talk to me and it wasn’t worth our friendship. I just kept quiet.
John Locke says
Cindy said, “Yes, it is amazing how many OT VII and VIII’s are later declared for just saying “hello” to Mike Rinder or Marty Rathbun or others. ”
Why would you be amazed Cindy? That is a suppressive act and per El Con is an offense that someone can be declared SP for. LONG standing policy (HCO PL).
Cindy Lou2 says
Hello Mike! I am not an OT but an SP!
Mark Marco says
Cindy, thanks. This reveals to me more evidence of trickery on the part of the church. Now I would have to prove those words to be malicious deciet, words penned and printed by LRH. A person declared for that reason, (viewing other sources) would do just that, and thanks again.
Declaring OTs has to be counter productive for the church. It is again difficult to believe, the actual demonstrated ineptitude of this so-called leader, and his rampant personal destruction of his sacred house. Makes my job all the easier.
Cindy Lou2 says
Wendy M- you just presented the question I keep asking myself. How could so many OT’s (whatever level) or even clears be in for 15, 20 or 30 years) and leave and be declared an SP or sent to that hell hole place.
Friend says
Was an SP and the church found never out before .. what a tech .. does not work well in all ways .. how is it possible to find an OT VIII as a suppressive .. who is crazy here ..
Old Surfer Dude says
Ok…ok, I am.
Bruce says
This makes me wonder (as a “never in”) though : Do Scientologists who are still in have revealing conversations like this with each other, in which there is a disagreement that ensues, and one or both parties inadvertently reveal something that is on their minds that isn’t “Party Line” that later merits a Knowledge Report and inevitable grilling by church authorities?
Seems to me that with the increased group paranoia fostered by DM these days, it would lead most members to be REALLY “guarded” about what they say to each other, for fear of being sec checked, etc.
I suppose people still slip up now and then and say things that get them in trouble within CO$, but I wonder if overall the members these days are much more tight-lipped and careful in what they say to each other?
Ann B Watson says
Hi Bruce, A great question.I can’t begin to know the answer today bloggers who know could help me with that,but if I was a still in and still alive in Sea Org,today I would never open my mouth! Between cameras in auditing rooms and probably a lot of other places David Miscavige is all eyes and ears I would surmise.Always Ann B.
ed says
My observation is you keep your thoughts private but follow the party line anyway. Even with family. I’m fully out but under the radar.
Ann B Watson says
Hi Ed, Good to meet you.I understand where you are coming from.However for me from 78 – 2015 when Mike’s Blog and I connected I was under,over and through the radar.I kept my Sea Org story to myself for years.Well I’ve told it all here and each day I feel that I did the absolutely right step.Times can still get hard, nightmares and such but the sunlight of telling all is beautiful. Always, Ann.
Old Surfer Dude says
They do if they want to stay out of the RPF’s RPF……
Cindy says
Bruce, to answer your question, I don’t know about SO members, but I imagine they are scared to death to talk about anything that isn’t DM approved. As a former public, I can tell you that only two years ago, my best friend came to my house and demanded to get on my computer, after which she brought up every email written to or from her and erased them so as to remove all traces that she had ever discussed Debbie Cook’s New Year’s Eve email. She said that her husband and her had actually emailed Debbie telling her that they believed her and supported her and knew her from their days in Charlotte, North Carolina and knew she was “a good girl.” She erased that and then said to come to her car to talk with the windows up. She was afraid my house was bugged. So in her car with the windows up, she told me that she wished DM was dead and that someone would take him out “for hurting our church like he’s done.” Strong words. Yet her next step was to tell our other mutual KA drinking friend that she had disconnected from me because I was disaffected. And then she went on to route onto a Div 6 correspondence course so that it looked like she was “on course” and active as an OT VII, and that because she’d disconnected from me (while I was still in good standing), that proved her loyalty to DM and all things DM. That is how 1.1 and paranoid some public were 2 years ago. The whole DM regime breeds 1.1 Covert Hostility because no one dares come out and say anything. I can only imagine it has gotten worse in recent times.
Ann B Watson says
Hi Cindy,Wow what a post! Thank you so much! I’ll wager there is so much paranoia flying around now ,one could cut it with a Sword! Love,Ann.
Idle Morgue says
I believe you need to go earlier on the chain Cindy.
Cindy says
What do you mean, Idle Morgue?
Old Surfer Dude says
Wow! But…you’re still best of friends, right? RIGHT? Ok, maybe now……
Pepper says
God, what a story Cindy. I recall in your exit story you said that one of your friends told you that she hated David Miscavige. How can she still be in the church? She must not be very active and like you said, doing home extension courses to keep up the pretense. A painful existence.
BTW, I know someone who is going through something like what you did right now. There are spies in the guise of ‘friends’ and ‘public’. This person has been warned, now if only they would listen.
Ann B Watson says
Hi Pepper,I agree so with your post.A very young Ann found all that out the hard way.Would that your friend would take heed of your very wise words.Love,Ann.
I Yawnalot says
Similar scenario in the early 40s in Nazi Germany if you mentioned foul of da Fuhrer. Back then they shot you, with the Cof$ the bullets are declares and sec checks.
In every sense imaginable scientology is the best example of a dictatorship presently on the planet. Yet they are advertising and selling you freedom. Self-determinism is the alleged goal of all auditing – yeah right… and miscavige is their top auditor like Hubbard was in his time.
Nothing about organisational scientology has your best interests at heart, nothing! But if someone gave you a flyer on it you could light your pile of leaves with it.
Old Surfer Dude says
Excellent comparison! Enslavement in both camps.
Cindy says
Enslavement is Freedom. The church dramatizes “1984” by George Orwell.
FOTF2012 says
I love Regraded Being.
Yes, we all know what happens when you mess with pure theta! Actually, there is a YouTube clip on it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F6X9KcrXHwg
Ron dolittle says
RB is great as usual. Jackson is a great guy as well.
MostEthicalPimp says
“Pouw then said Jackson was telling people he was communicating with the dead, including Hubbard. That indicates he is ‘delusional’ and ‘certifiably insane,’ Says a church that has a BILLION YEAR contract!
Bruce says
…and says a “church” that teaches that we all have space cooties of alien spirits clinging to us that need to be confronted and blown off…..funny!
Old Surfer Dude says
…and requires you, on OT3 up to OT 7 to talk to disembodied space aliens, or as Bruce put it, “space cooties.” And what’s this about Hubbard being dead? I thought he was alive and well at Target 2? What am I missing here? Ms. Pouw, are you delusional? Or, maybe you haven’t done OT 3 yet? Would you like to tell you what it’s all about? Yes? Well, sit back and relax. You see, 75 million years ago…….
Overrun in California says
Close, but actually he’s alive and well and at “Target”. He’s a greeter.
Old Surfer Dude says
LMFAO!!! Still laughing! I can just see him now: (cough, cough, wheeze, sniffle, cough…Wel, cough, whezze, come to Wal, wheeze, cough, mart. Gasp, gasp, fart, gasp…please pick up the cans…
Joe says
LATE BREAKING NEWS FROM BENZINGA.COM!!!!
DAVID MISCAVIGE IS NOT A CRIMINAL PSYCHOPATH!
I don’t know about you, but I am SO RELIEVED!!!!
Old Surfer Dude says
Oh, thank God! But, he’s still a sociopath, right?
Ed Kette says
The world news are full of lies. The ones and only authorized (lies) come from our most beloved Dear Leader, captain Kim!
Jose Chung says
Create an enemy to have an enemy.
hat’s been around day one and
after the discovery that the best way to control people
is to lie about them.
Bigger the lie the more effective
(never use small lies)
Henry Jmaes says
Good morning Jose, it looks as though you’ve used the GO/OSA play book. It’s good you’re out. Henry
Jose Chung says
Dear Henry,
Yes, this is the GO/OSA playbook.
But really the credit goes to Adolf Hitler who wrote
the ‘Big Lie Theory’. B1 in the GO only borrowed it.
Old Surfer Dude says
What…if you tell a lie enough times people will believe it?
Jose Chung says
Chapter 10 of Mein Kampf Vol 1
“Big LieTheory by Adolf Hitler
it’s in the B1 hat pack
McCarran says
🙂 Holy shit. A good part of this conversation I have had before getting declared myself. Were you there RB?
Love the KR writing at the end (getting the EXACT Time, Place, Form and Event). Totally real and totally absurd.
lynnfountaincampbell says
Yes! And all the rest of the “knowledge” report mush-minded eval that’s supposed to pass for facts just because the time and place looked so factual.
dankoon says
One of the best yet, especially as regards James J. Jackson, Esq.
Henry James says
In re: Jim Jackson, of all the folks left alive, Mr. Jackson would know where the bulk of the skeletons are hidden. Particularly the for profit corporations that sprang up as needed, and disappeared just as quickly. IMO, Mr. Miscavige has nothing in the “Torah” or the “Talmud” he can lean on to justify abusing Mr. Jackson.
Espiando says
True, but he’s got his version of the Hadith, the Sayings Of The Profit. L. Fraud must have wrote something about abusing his former accountant. He said shit about everything else, up to and including the proper way to clean windows.
Pepper says
RB, you have great insight into the minds and hearts of Scientologists. Here you showed two sides of where a Scientologist can live, and it can be a little schizophrenic. Have a great day 🙂
Old Surfer Dude says
A LITTLE schizophrenic? And here I thought they were totally schizophrenic. Or maybe it’s me……
Still on your side says
Very funny, yet very sad. Regraded Being is a true cartoonist following on the heels of cartoonists who have, literally, changed the world with their cartoons: http://www.buzzfeed.com/victornavasky/15-historic-cartoons-that-changed-the-world#.svYpKwNOJ and http://www.slate.com/articles/arts/culturebox/2015/05/pen_president_andrew_solomon_s_speech_about_charlie_hebdo_at_the_pen_gala.html
dankoon says
Thanks for the link. Fabulously interesting cartoons.
Zephyr says
Awesome, thanks!
Greta
Gayle says
Yep that guy on the right is a model scientologist. I have family and friends who felt the way the guy on the right did and stayed in after reading off the church’s banned materials. Those are the ones that really scare me and I mean the kind that scare me in life – no conviction, no loyalty but to themselves, no value on personal integrity – life’s just an ride they got on and they’re happy to let someone else steer. Living dead is what I call that though I’m sure it’s a bit bitchy and a down right wrong generalization for many but for the most part I think it’s how it is.
McCarran says
Yup. I know someone “still In” who knows about the abuses at the top (in fact, his own son was beaten up at INT and in the RPF’s RPF, before he left the SO and is still active himself), has had 40 intensives of sec checking as his last auditing, has disconnected from his boyhood friend, disconnected from two step sons he helped raise, etc. (there is a lot more) and who just recently, I got a text from him saying he would like nothing more to communicate with me but his mentor is LRH and it says plainly in Green on White, I need to do A-E. One doesn’t get much lower than that.
Pepper says
McCarran, talk about hitting rock bottom. The guy is in total delusion and it’s sad. People like this are reinforcing the ethos of the cult and are a bad influence for others around them. He did you a favor. Maybe one day you can do one for him when he needs it and is remorseful.
Newcomer says
Right on the mark Gayle and Mary!
RB has pretty much covered the mindset of those who are left stuck in the cherch of latter day planet savers. A sad and yet dangerous group who have tossed their own moral compass into the abyss.
Know them for who they are. Trust them to follow and believe in their mentors. Their actions will likely cause pain and destruction for those they come in contact with. Fortunately the members of the Cult are easy to identify and avoid!
Ann B Watson says
Hi McCarran, So sad but I knew some in like that too.An old saying Blood will out and those who cannot ever ever let go of Ron or David or cos will never know the healing power of change.I realize now Ron did not carve his words in stone,he did and said what he wanted,when he wanted.Also this just made me recall in 75 there was talk of carving all Ron’s words about Scientology on stone pillars around the world so future generations could see how great he was!I’m not sure that one got off The Sea Org drawing board but I could definitely be wrong.Always Ann.
Pepper says
Gayle, I like your term “living dead” in the context you used. It is true. It also made me think of how I use the the term ‘a living death’ to describe the practice of disconnection.
And no, you are not a generalizing bee-otch for saying what you said. You were very specific 🙂
Old Surfer Dude says
Yep, been there done that! After a couple of ragers at my home, many of us were ‘living dead.’ How we survived, I’ll never know….
Idle Morgue says
Fricken Hysterical RB! A CLEAR example of how Scientology creates so much conflict in member’s lives. Scientology IS THE 3rd Party to ALL CONFLICT~ It is such a hateful group of people pretending to be “theta” but LOVE is repelled in this group. They really have audited out any care, any love or any “theta”.
Ann B Watson says
Hi Idle Morgue, You speak the truth.All care, love, and theta got washed down the drain quite some time ago.RB is so amazing every Fri I receive so much from the body of incredible work that we are gifted with here. Love,Ann.
John Locke says
This scenario must be playing out in one form or another almost everyday now. I cannot imagine what it took/takes to be in the Church over the last 2 decades.
Old Surfer Dude says
A feeble mind? A lobotomy? Electro-shock? Bad parenting? Being the most gullible person in the world?
Let me know if I’m close……
Potpie says
She’s at it 24/7 every fucking day?……huh?
Old timers disease? Now wait a minute buddy I can still kick your young ass! I promise you will go exterior with full perceptics. And when I’m done I’ll send your pummeled body to the MAA and let them figure it out.
Henry James says
“From your mouth to God’s ears” (though the after effects to HCO seems a bit overdone). Henry
Old Surfer Dude says
“From your mouth to God’s ears.” I’m sure she’ll be happy to hear it….
Ann B Watson says
Hi Potpie,You know I love this post.Always, Ann.
Cindy says
DM writing as Karin Pouw can’t duplicate the truth. Jim Jackson doesn’t have Altzheimer’s. But I heard that his former partner, Marty Greenburg, the other founder of Greenburg and Jackson CPA firm, does have Altzheimers. So Karen, as LRH says in green on white, similarities are not identities. To further prove that his mind if sharp, Jim Jackson had a doctor test him and do an MRI on him and both tests came out 100% good. His mind is sharp and he has no disease of it. Spreading the rumor that it is opposite this is jus the church doing Black PR to smear an opponent, and they didn’t even get that right as it is his former partner that is afflicted and not him.
Ann B Watson says
Hi Cindy, Yes isn’t that Black PR the best smear tech known! Both my late parents passed from terrible forms of Altzheimers and I would not wish their brain deterioration on anyone ever.To say Mr. Jackson has it when he does not is a crime in my way of thinking about it.But again that Old Black PR really makes me know why I now call The Church a Cult.Those that practice it are very out of touch and frightening to me.I know.Always Ann.
Cindy says
Yes, Ann, right out of the GO and OSA playbook that if you can’t dig up real dirt on your attackers, then lie and fabricate it and shout it from the rooftops… and they call this a church…
Ann B Watson says
Hi Cindy,I so agree with you.How about the Church of The Black Hearts led by the baddest of them all David Miscavige.Love,Ann.
Leigh Andrews says
If you can’t persuade them, punish them?
Henry James says
Seems Godlike to me Leigh. Henry
Old Surfer Dude says
Gosh, Leigh, you know a lot about the cult! And while they’re being punished, they blame themselves.
And, Henry, you’re right! It is Godlike……..well….Godlike in a cult like way.
Henry James says
Thanks for the assist OSD. Henry