Some somewhat random observations about the 20/20 show last night.
First, I am sure that scientology and David Miscavige HATED the show. They hate anything that is not presenting total puff PR for scientology. If it is not just glamour shots of scientology buildings, glowing statements by glazed-eyed “winning” scientologists or images of Miscavige yanking ribbons on new empty buildings, then it is “suppressive propaganda spread by merchants of chaos.”
Miscavige does have reason to be upset. This show exposed a lot of the bad aspects of scientology to a larger audience than the A&E Show. For that, ABC 20/20 deserves kudos.
They also deserve a pat on the back for devoting an hour to this program. CBS and NBC have not done so.
That being said — this show left a LOT to be desired.
It was a disjointed hash of random pieces of information. Clearly they had put a show together and at the last minute, scientology insisted that they interview Muffins Yingling. And, because NOBODY gets to interview “scientology” spokespeople these days, they took this as a “we cannot pass up” opportunity. So they shoe-horned her stuff in. It was both a good and a bad move.
The single most noteworthy thing about the whole show (not just to me, see Twitter and the comments on the 20/20 site) was how bad Muffins was. She looked terrible. Her answers were evasive and inconsistent. And she looked like she was in one of those movies where people try to blink out morse code messages when they are being forced to do a video to prove they are alive for a kidnapping extortion plot. Ms. Yingling is NOT a scientologist. Despite working for Miscavige for 25+ years, she has never had any auditing and never done a scientology course (she is a failed dissemination cycle). She knows nothing about auditing, sec checking, TR’s or anything else — just what she has “been told.” And that alone is a serious indictment of scientology, the masters of communication and the shatterers of suppression have not a single scientologist who can go on TV to represent them.
But in some ways, this has its upsides. There is no scientologist in history who could maintain a straight face answering questions about Joburg sec checks and TR’s like she did. Everyone who has ever done TR 0 bullbait knows she was lying. Everyone who has done Grade 2 knows she was lying. And it is “easier” for someone who does NOT know, to lie. But that being said, ironically Muffins COULD use some TR 0 — she blinks 100 times a minute and apparently has a hard time looking at Dan Harris.
So, she showed the world what a “scientologist” looks and acts like (even though she isn’t one). But of course, because of the amount of screen time she was afforded, she managed to spout a lot of the scientology “PR lines”, though I suspect few believed a word she said.
The lengths 20/20 went to in order to present scientology’s “side” was sad. Tons of footage of scientology buildings and events (and I note they saw the error of their ways so EVERY shot now has extras populating it). Repeatedly asking questions based on the “dead agenting” allegations of scientology about Leah and me and anyone else on the show. Perhaps unlike any other news media, 20/20 act as surrogates for scientology. They talk about “alleged” PI’s following (even though it was DOCUMENTED right on the show that they were PI’s). They slight Leah calling her a “semi-professional anti-scientologist” and allow the church to claim “Leah is just doing this for money” without asking Muffins the obvious question — is she doing it for money. Muffins has absolutely NO dog in the fight, as she says, she raised her sons Catholic. No family members disconnected from her. Nobody comes to her with their lives having been devastated. So, in fact, she is exclusively doing the dirty work for money and NO other reason.
20/20 cobbled together footage from old interviews with me and Marty Rathbun. It was weird and very out of context.
I thought Serge Gil was very relatable, credible and heartbreaking. But they did not even skim the surface of his story – as powerful as it was, it was a completely watered down rendition of what I know Serge has to tell.
When it comes right down to it, the final question Leah asked Dan Harris was the most telling of all. When asked what he thought about scientology losing its tax exempt status he proclaimed it was not his job to have such an opinion. Leah summed up what everyone watching it felt “Dan, you’re an asshole.”
Just imagine Dan Harris and his team doing a show about defectors from North Korea. Would they fill half the show with phony footage of the worker’s paradise provided by the N. Korean propaganda ministry? Would they give credence to the North Korean spokesperson who came on the show claiming the defectors were all just doing it for money as “professional anti-North Koreans”? It would be absurd. And Dan Harris would not be “neutral” about whether N. Korea should be prevented from violating human rights.
Of course, 20/20 could argue that Scientology is not N. Korea. That would be true. But it is perhaps even MORE outrageous and newsworthy that these abuses are happening right here in the United States! 20/20 have been “investigating” scientology for YEARS. They know the people they have interviewed (a LOT more than those you saw on the show) have told them the truth. They KNOW and yet they don’t have the courage to do real investigative journalism. They try to be “objective” and “balanced,” but that sort of “neutrality” is NOT compatible with true investigative journalism, which at its core is someone with the courage to uncover and expose what others have been unwilling or unable to reveal to the world. Sure, give those whose dirty laundry is being exposed a chance to respond, but don’t give them a free pass to present their propaganda without challenging THEM on what they have discovered. Dan Harris is no Mike Wallace. But he could be. He has more material than Mike Wallcae ever had. He is just lacking one thing. Mike Wallace’s balls.
I’m curious to know what will become of the droopy eyed, wishy washy, contradicting attorney that was selected by the church to answer questions. I am still at a loss as to why a catholic who has little to no knowledge about the church and it’s practices was selected to give responses to questions she very clearly did not know the answers to. Can they stick a catholic in the hole too?
Why wasn’t Michele Miscavige mentioned in this article? I’m so confused on the legalities of a missing persons report now. No one has heard from or seen her or provided proof she is healthy and ok and being where she wants to be. Yet many rumors of sightings of her looking frail, disheveled and scared have surfaced. I’m at a loss.
Leah’s responses to everything I felt were good- I wasn’t offended by her calling the interviewer an “ass hole” I think she was being silly and made it obvious. I think it’s her personality and I like it.
I’m curious to know where the church plans to go from here- There are way too many different reports, interviews, documentaries, and other special docuseries like shows that are now airing with numerous different former members (some who have not yet even been on the A&E special yet) who are sharing stories with so many similarities to all the others out there. The problem for the church is that due to so many stories from so many different people from all over the country- it isn’t looking good for them. The very fact this church is notorious for responding back to all these allegations with hateful, slanderous, mean statements and name calling really isn’t helping them. They claim to want to better mankind- Can a rep from the church please explain to me how creating hate web sites, releasing hateful statements calling these people names, and insulting who they are as people whether insulting their jobs or life in general is betting the planet? I’m not sold on that. And I think it really shows more about what this church is then it does the people who freed themselves from the control of this church and have chosen to speak out.
Also- legally, how can this church claim “tax exempt” and “non-profit” when they clearly are profiting? I thought their were laws in this country also about MINIMUM wage? How are these people getting away with paying it’s employees .40 cents a day?
I could carry on and on with questions I have and other things I notice of the church and it’s evil “COB” And every time I watch another episode on A&E or read another statement released by the church I have a dozen more.
No church would release such hateful, mean, and catty things about a former follower. Most churches would either A. Ignore the person and choose not to comment, or B. Say that they will PRAY for the person and hope them the best. I’m still at such a loss as to how someone gets so brain warped that they agree with a church that clearly is full of it by stating they want the best for man kind. We all learned young that talking badly of others is not ok.
Expecting young people not to want to have sex, marry and have children is not only unrealistic, but horribly unfair, and coercing a woman of any age to have an abortion is egregious to say the least.
Holly Dieringer says
Did not see the 20/20 episode but have followed your aftermath series as well as the BBC documentary and a few others on YouTube. I find myself sad and angry,confused and disgusted over and over again. Please keep doing what you’re doing we have to bring this group down.
I hope that Leah and you do an episode of Serge Gil on the next season because the 20/20 presentation FELT botched. I don’t know his story, but you can tell by what he did say that it is compelling one.
I loved this special. Awesome information. But yes- I was left wanting more.
I’m so shocked to see a church publicly share such horrible videos of family members and former colleagues saying such awful stuff about their loved one/former colleague. It’s so unprofessional. True or not true it shows more about THEM then it does the person they are attacking. There is a saying “what Susie says of Sally says more about Susie then it does Sally”
The church needs to think about that one. Maybe if they came forward with statements and videos that weren’t filled with bitterness and anger and blatant exaggerated untrue accounts of the people they are putting on blast people would consider the two sides of a story analogy. They sort of ruined their chances of that.
I can’t get over how disgusting I find their videos and hate websites. The statements they release. All of it. It’s so trashy and makes the church as a whole look like a complete joke and carry high school campus filled with gossipy teenagers. Not cool.
The attorney they had speaking looked to be on drugs. And clearly knew nothing about what she was defending. And admitting she was catholic in fact proved she clearly knew nothing of the church practices.
One thing missing- Shelly miscavige wasn’t brought up once. I think it’s very clear everyone is starting to understand wherever she is- it’s terrible and awful.
Mike-I have been OBSESSED w/reading & reading abt Scn ever since the A&E series. I’d read the USA Today special several yrs ago. I’m SSOOOOO pissed abt all the abuses. I’m currently abt 2/3 the way thru Headley’s book & he mentions Liisa McPherson & a hit & run committed my asshole D Miscavige. That mother fucker should go to prison for that & all the awful things he’s done. Put him in a hole like Shawshank!! I’m a retired cop so that’s how I’m wired-JUSTICE. Anyway, I’d think after this series & all the books out there that there’s MORE THAN ENOUGH for both the FBI & IRS to investigate. Am I right? Oh how it’d be SSOOOO worth it to voluntarily put the uniform on agn & march onto the Int base & hook D Miscavige’s ass up & throw him in jail!!
I know tonite is the end of Leah’s series ?, but I hope to read abt the whole thing crashing down-SOON!!
God bless you, Mike. I hope you & Leah succeed!!
Omg I’m obsessed with it too! I find myself praying throughout the show that SOMEONE help these 2ND AND 3rd generation scientologist that don’t know any other way
Muffins is no different than a criminal defense lawyer here. Such lawyers are paid for their services to defend accused clients. Now, regardless of public opinion, or how much evidence is made available to the guilt of the client, that lawyer has one job to do, and that is to defend the client. And under the constitution, regardless of how guilty one is, they have a right to a fair trial and a competent defense lawyer. Is it the lawyer’s job to find out the “truth” behind the charges, or is it to defend? It’s a job, a dirty job most often when the guilt is overwhelming, but a job nonetheless. It’s all about the money. She’s getting paid very well to be a “spokesperson” for the “church”, even though she’s not a member. I’m sure she doesn’t want to ask any questions or investigate beyond what the official Miscavige position is in fear of losing her client and her handsome payments.
It can’t be any clearer, and the public is becoming steadily informed of how destructive this cult is. It’s a poison to the human race, which is ironic since its founder did have the motive to uplift humanity (however skewed his vision was). It’s just another example of what can happen when one man’s perception of what is best for the world somehow spreads and infects others to such a degree that they share the same grand delusion. And I do lump ALL religions into this skewed perception routine as every one of them was invented by a man with a mission of how to save the world.
I do hope the IRA grows the balls to repeal that tax exempt status. From what I understand, Miscavige had launched a ton of lawsuits against individuals within the department, and they finally came to an agreement to give scientology that status if the lawsuits were dropped? So was it blackmail? If so, shame on the US government for allowing this to happen. And I wouldn’t be surprised to find out that Miscavige then paid off some of the government officials for that status.
What amazes me is how this wicked cult has sustained itself in spite of the public fallout that has been happening ever since it’s inception when psychiatry was at war with Hubbard. Will scientology ever be beaten down to a dismal shadow of itself? I certainly hope so. Then the souls that are trapped in its grand illusion will at least be offered an opportunity for real freedom, as opposed to a deluded life of slavery under the guise of spiritual progress.
Mike, keep up the good fight!
Unless you are filtering out responses from active Scientologists, I haven’t seen one person defending their Scientology church. Not one, not on this blog or the Tony Ortega blog, not on twitter or facebook . I think that is interesting. If you are filtering them out, Thank You.
Your work here is healing for all of us who have had the CoS experience. Thank you doesn’t seem to be enough to express my appreciation for all you and Leah are exposing to the world.
Behind you 100%
I saw ONE comment in another thread that was someone saying how well $ci-woo (auditing) and the Introspection Run-Down work on psychosis. But I would assume that if any Scientologist would be on this site or Ortega’s they’d find themselves in some expensive SecCheck auditing sessions.
I think the reason we are not seeing any Scientologists respond is because they are not allowed to access the internet or look up any scandals against Scientology because knowledge is power!
Hey! What about me? But no sensible “serious” Scientologist would bother to comment here anyway!
One thing that Leah said in an episode was that (and I’m paraphrasing here) when we make fun of Scientology, we are making fun of the pain and suffering of the people in it, and the people who are out, but have been disconnected from loved ones Prior to the show, aside from the existence of Scientology, I knew little to nothing about it, so I was in absolutely NO position to judge. Nothing has changed in that respect. The whole thing just breaks my heart. Thinking about people who believed in something so deeply, that they gave up their children, their lives, their money.. so much. If Miscaviage wasn’t the small, cowardly man that he is apparently is, he would have done GOOD things with the COS instead of allowing the power to go to his head. As idealistic and perhaps as naive as it sounds, he (Miscaviage) would have realized that he had good, loyal, and incredibly smart people working for and around him. Perhaps he would have appreciated them, and together they would have done incredible things with the church and it’s technology. Abolished the terrible LRH practices of disconnection, coerced abortions, separting parents and children, the RPF, The ‘Hole’, fair game, making parishioners go up the bridge, only to continually come back down, charging exorbitant amounts of money for the courses and text books etc. They would have made the COS the type of place that people want to be, and WANT to join – NOT speak out against. The church could have been the type of place that they portray in the videos and ‘commercials’ that they show at IAS events. They could have possibly made even MORE money, and used it for the good of the EVERYONE. Membership numbers in the COS are declining. Miscaviage isn’t as smart as he thinks he is. He’s shooting himself, and the COS in the foot. As the old saying goes, ‘What goes around comes around.”
Wendy Kroy says
What is Miscavaige’s reaction going to be? Will Yingling be fired?
Sandra Trujillo says
Execellent job in20/20 we need to expose more !!! this should be stop here and around the world they are bring people to this wonderfull country witj lies and keep them working as slaves into Fot Harrison Hotel !! Flag Crew staff working 12 and14 hours a day for less than .50
cent hour. its terrible how this people take avantage.
I completely agree with Leah and her mission. However, for her to call Dan Harris an “asshole” was totally unprofessional, disrespectful and uncalled for! I agree with his response to her question when asked what he thought about scientology losing its tax exempt status he proclaimed it was not his job to have such an opinion. Him giving his opinion would have been unprofessional. And to say that “Leah summed up what everyone watching it felt” is I think a pretty huge assumption!
Mike Rinder says
YEs, you are right. Not everyone agrees. Though they cut her laughing immediately after making the joke. Leah is a comedienne. There are many moments in our series that are lighthearted too. If you edited it to make it appear the comment was serious it would create a different impression. But not everyone can be happy all the time with what someone says.
Sad to see nobody saw what myself and many others did who are outside the cos inner circle but have a legal degree – abc got for the first time the church to admit on the record there are punishments for a parishioner not disconnecting…never heard that admission ever before…on the record now and connects the missing dots. And they admitted, parsing through all the words, admitted on the record minors can be exposed to sexually explicit material through basic practices and showed a interrogation form with sexual questions for a six year old. Unheard of. you don’t get that when you just have people who you agree with say whatever they claim is true.
Ivan McDonald says
I thought Leah was being funny. Made me laugh.
Leah, is an American woman who speaks her mind. That’s a big part of her appeal and why so many love her. I would agree with you about the asshole comment if she were part of the British Royal Family. Where etiquette and protocol reign supreme. Dan lacks the testicular fortitude to speak the truth. Hell, he was the one interviewing and exposing the abuses/cruelty. For him to “have no opinion” is a lie and you could see it in his eyes. That question made him nervous. Mike Rinder, I’ve watched you over many years and am so glad you escaped and have a happy family/life in Clearwater. Discounting the PI’s, fake neighbors, cameras tucked in bird houses, etc.
I took Leah’s rejoinder as tongue in cheek. She has an acerbic wit and personality that has always gotten her into trouble. I can identify with that personality trait. She wasn’t entirely serious. I think 20/20 left it in because they took it as a joke. It was a character moment showing Leah being herself.
bbock… spot on!
They are close. That’s why she knew she could say that. How could you not see that?? And she was joking.
Greg McNeill says
During Muffin’s interview, I was reminded of Martin Short’s brilliant parody of the guilty 60 Minutes interviewee. If you’ve never seen it, youtube it and see if you don’t agree that she is just as smarmy.
I thought she was the definition of a swarmy lawyer. When she was blinking so much, I thought it was a “tell” that she was lying, making it up as she went bringing on sweating that made her too shinny.
Also, they should of had someone to take care of makeup and wardrobe. It definitely wasn’t flattering to her at all.
Mike Meadows says
I’m amazed this is called a religion. No God to worship just a dude who liked to pretend he was a sailor. The Sea Org people look fucking ridiculous in their Navy wannabe getup.
I thought I saw this attorney on the Exorcist. Her eyes actually rolled back into her head while she spoke. Kind a creepy. Is that really the best Scientology has to send to state their case? The things they do to children is beyond disguisting. Government really needs to find out what’s going on in this Jim Jones place.
Paula Tyson says
I agree…what part of Scientology even resembles a ‘church’…
Carol Cohen says
I totally agree with your comments MM! Not to mention, and maybe it’s just me, but he was such a creepy “Dude” to!!! For the life of me I don’t get how he ever got a following of any kind. I gag every time they run a clip of him. Ughhh so gross! And David Miscavidge is a smarmy smug ego maniac! I hope there is an investigation into this obvious Cult a.k.a. “Church”. Any organization that makes you “disconnect or rat” on family doesn’t deserve to be tax exempt! Keep up the awesome work A&E!
I agree that this was a disjointed account of Scientology, but it did reach a wider audience. Those that would not have normally have seen anything on Scientology, other than the creepy celebrity factor.
Some things notable though:
– no real Scientologist responding to the stories told by former Scientologists.
– no proof of ANY HELP TO PEOPLE, just buildings – Uh?? What do you do in those buildings? Who are you helping? Where are the testimonials of those who are helped by Scientology?
– It seemed creepy that Ms. Yingling is comparing leaving her sons with a Priest the same as what these children of Scientology have to endure. Didn’t it seem kind of weird? I mean….really?
– Her comparing where it is appropriate for a 14 year old to engage in explicit discussion regarding sex with an adult? The only purpose I can think of, is if that child has been sexually abused and is discussing it with a police officer, parent, psychologist or any person there to assist them. Ms. Yingling never mentioned that, she only alluded to teens that may be sexually active or aware. That was disturbing.
– the comments about Marty Rathburn. They were incomplete and confusing. It seemed like he was being described as now bending to the church. Like he was dismissing people who are actively working to help those who need to get out; or who are and need compassion, empathy and assistance. It made it seem like the Church won in his case.
– They also quoted Mr. Rathburn, and I paraphrase, that he found the Anti-Scientologist movement a “cottage industry” and that it “was acting like Scientology” – this was said apparently in January. Tony Ortega then makes a comment about Mr. Rathburn’s turnaround, yet I looked on his blog and cannot find anything regarding that? Maybe I just can’t find it or it is January 2015? I looked in 2016 and any posts for this year and cannot find anything.
– For those who don’t get A&E, or who haven’t been exposed to any previous documentaries regarding Scientology, this will at least reach out and maybe get more people interested.
So, while lacking in some good content, I think it is helpful for your cause.
Keep up the good work!!!!!
Lacey Sheridan says
I have to agree with the cottage industry comment. It seems that many people can’t move on from Scientology; it still dominates their lives. Sad.
Ivan McDonald says
It is sad that this horse shit dominates their lives but, apparently, this is what happens to people in cults and to people who have been abused.
I think there has to be a “cottage industry” (to use their term), because it has to be stopped. It is easy for those who have not been raised in this environment to judge. We can’t even begin to imagine what their lives are or have been like.
Maybe in actively helping those who are in or out of Scientology, bringing awareness to the egregious actions of the church, telling their stories to help others to come forward etc. IS THEIR WAY OF MOVING ON.
I just don’t know how having every aspect of your lives controlled and manipulated for most of your life – then to have to learn almost everything for the first time at an adult age – can’t dominate your life. It is your life.
I did find the info on Marty Rathburn and quite frankly, I am extremely disappointed in him. To come forward with such power to help bring down a little midget dictator and his realm, to then abandon everyone, is sad. Especially, as he was one who caused so much pain, damage and destruction. He OWES all those he hurt. To me, it is way worse to come forward and help and then say; “Oh, ooops, don’t feel like doing this anymore. I just want to go and hide”.
Maybe the COS has something on Mr. Rathburn, so he and his wife decided to back off from their law suit. Maybe they settled out of court, either way, he has truly failed those he hurt by making these comments (re: Ron Miscavige, Scientology & Me movie, etc.), not making himself available for interviews, stopping writing about Scientology on his blog etc.etc.
True change and reparations are not easy. It is hard and that is what makes it meaningful.
Very sad and disappointing on all fronts, Mr. Rathburn. So for the rest of us participating in this new groundswell of interest to help destroy the COS and heal the survivors is important. So, they can move on with their lives.
“1 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2 For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you. 3 Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye?” (Matthew 7)
Thank you for the lovely reminder.
Leah needs to put out more episodes and get Aftermath into syndication around the world.
I AGREE 100%! THE MORE PEOPLE AWARE AND TALKING ABOUT THIS CAN HOPEFULLY GET THE GOVERNMENT TO FINALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT THIS ATROCITY! HOW THEY HAVE NEGLECTED TO DEAL WITH THIS IS UNACCEPTABLE. SCIENTOLOGY MUST BE TAKEN DOWN. IT’S A HARM TO TOO MANY LIVES. NO ONE SHOULD STAND ON THE SIDELINES HERE. IT’S DAY OF JUDGEMENT IS COMING!
ALSO THERE SHOULD BE MORE SEASONS OF THIS SHOW. KEEP GOING AND KEEP THE PRESSURE ON THEM.
I kind of felt sorry for Yingling. They plopped her in a chair with bright lights on her in a barren room, almost an interrogation setting. Makeup did a terrible job and did nothing to make her appear reasonably attractive, allowing her to look pasty faced and haggard.
Even under those circumstances she did what she was was supposed to do as a lawyer and dodge and hedge on detrimental questions about her client.
I almost didn’t hear a word she said because I was so distracted by her sweaty chin. 🙂
Mike, they (20/20) should have disclaimed all of the scientology supplied footage. I’d hate to think people around the world actually think that their buildings, churches, orgs, or whatever are actually that bustling.
I’m surprised Ms TingaLingYing doesn’t just toss up her hands after a few questions and say ‘ok, you’ve got me. I can’t defend this shit anymore.’ Serge’s story sounded believable to me. Leah in her own book talked about Bullbaiting when she was a young teen, and the adults saying all sorts of sexual stuff like ‘hey, you’ve got some bit tits there!’ to get her and her sister to react. If a bunch of people have the exact same story, I believe them over a lawyer saying ‘well, I’ve been told that sort of stuff doesn’t happen.’
So many people have the same stories about Scientology – it’s impossible not to believe them. The fact that Scientology spends vast amounts of money on private investigators to find and bring back people who blow; renting houses near defectors to spy on them; setting up cameras to spy on people 24/7….. it sounds like Scientology has a LOT to hide. I’m sure if the Fair Game policy said it was fine to kill any enemies of the Church, there would be a graveyard full of ex-scientologists right now. It’s a very scary cult! I’m so glad it’s finally being exposed by Leah, Mike, and crew!
A legal point that I haven’t seen anyone make thus far regarding Muffins: she’s a tax attorney. (Maybe that’s obvious, but give me a minute.) I’ve found that a many people don’t realize that attorneys specialize. Yingling actually has a Masters of Law in Taxation, which makes her extra specialized. Let me use a medical comparison to illustrate exactly what that means. If Muffins were a doctor, she would be not only be a specialist, like a cardiologist, she would be a cardiac surgeon who specializes in valve replacements. For the most part she wouldn’t bother with anything else, and maybe she’s the best cardiac surgeon in the world, and does valve replacements all day long, but she sucks at other aspects of medicine and has a really crappy bedside manner.
Now what this means in regards to tax law is this: tax attorney’s are mostly paper pushers who specialize in the tax code, meaning weird little loop holes that they can exploit to save their clients boat loads of cash. (I can’t even read that stuff. It makes me crazy.) It’s not hard to see what CoS wants with her. However, I’d like to know who’s brilliant idea it was to put her in front of a camera. It was like hiring your accountant to MC your New Year’s Eve party. She was an unmitigated disaster. There are lawyers who specialize in dialogging with the public; they are good at it; they can make a tremendous amount of money doing it. She is not one of those lawyers. She was unsympathetic, standoffish, and condescending. Everything about her screamed liar. Even worse, she was thoroughly UNLIKABLE. I think that it was actually a good thing that ABC gave he so much air time. Scientology lost big the moment that they put her in front of a camera.
If DM wants to make this a regular thing, maybe he should buy her some spokes-model lessons. Charm school maybe?
Ella R says
She was put in front of cameras as being the person in the world most aware of what she mustn’t say with regard to tax exemption. She is the one best placed for the carefully worded answers required
“The person in the world?” Like the Jesus of tax exemption?
It goes without saying that the CoS tax exemption is a major contributor to DM’s cash cow–one that he fully intends to keep on milking. But there’s a reason that OJ had a legal *team*: each of them brought different strengths to the table. Hell, he had several attorneys that just specialized in DNA. So while Muffins may tell her clients that she is “the one,” her television performance clearly indicates that she is not the total embodiment of all things legal.
It’s just as well, DM will continue to burn the CoS down, with or without help. Angelina Jolie’s PR people couldn’t turn his train wreck around.
Anne Drozdowski says
I’m glad that my husband and I are not the only ones who thought the attorney for Scientology was lying and it was really awkward to watch. One minute, if that, into watching her, you knew she was uncomfortable.
May I just thank you, Mr. Rinder, and Leah Remini for taking this on and getting the word out there? I was horrified to see what Scientology was about. Sending hugs to those who need it and prayers for your continued courage and strength.
Cof$ came off creepy as hell. Who makes Hollywood style smear videos? Why not just interview them in person? (I know why, of course) Creepy.
How to spot a liar: she looks out of the corner of her eye; she blinks constantly; she turns her head; her answers are evasive, often attacking the attacker.
Martha Miller says
I agree. The blinking and the dodging made her completely unbelievable. Weird too that her children are Catholic and she’s not a Scientologist! Love what Leah and Mike are doing. It’s real and believable.
Rose Raboch says
THE CULT OF SCIENTOLOGY
My heart breaks when I hear or read about the VICTIMS OF THIS SO CALLED RELIGION and my anxiety flares. It’s an f—ing cult people!! I believe every word the Victims say when they tell their stories. Why would anyone have a reason to lie about what they know is the truth. They are not benefiting in any way from telling their stories, they lived it! I read the book by Jenna Miscavige Hill, who is the niece of the crazy abusive leader of the cult, David miscavige. Why would she lie about the abuse she suffered at the hands of her own uncle. When members finally realized that what they have been told to believe for years by that church ( cult ) was wrong, they escaped their abusive grips. THAT makes me happy. For those who did escape and are brave enough to come forward, being called a liar by other members of the cult is frustrating and disheartening. They are not doing it for the money. No amount of money would ever be enough compensation for what they all suffered! I am not a religious person but what other church do you know of that tears families apart once they finally realize the church is run by people that actually belong in hell (if there was one). On the other hand, what family member would believe and take the side of the church over their own flesh and blood. That is the power of brainwashing. (Cult) I can’t see myself ever falling for or believing in something that someone else told me to believe in, especially when you can see and feel in your heart that the things they do to members is not right or normal. ABUSE IS ABUSE!! I would like to see this cult seriously investigated.
SERIOUSLY WTF!! Which independent organization is in charge of making sure the things that go on in this church ARE NOT ABUSIVE? There is no way this church should be recognized as “A Religion” and the IRS is wrong! This cult should be taxed to death and the money could go towards helping people in a good and honest way. Better yet, the cult should be condemned.
Leah Remini and other ex-members, “I am sorry for all the haters and non-believers, I love you and believe you.”
To you, Master of Deception and the biggest criminal of all David Miscavige, ” I wish there was a hell because there would be a special place reserved just for you”.
Debbie Martin (@DebbieMartin12) says
I watched a show the other night about Charles Manson. I was shocked when they presented the tactics that he used to lure these people into his twisted world. Scientology uses these same tactics. It made the hair stand up on the back of my neck.
I cracked up laughing when you got in that P.I.’s face. Brilliant.
As far as them being objective and “balanced”?
While I agree when reporting you should always get both sides.. ABC could have been more tough on the cult of Scientology. (hi Monique Yingling!)
A note to Mike Rinder’s daughter-
Of course you father was not there for you as a child–your father was being a slave to Scientology. No parents are there for their children when in Scientology.
Martha Miller says
I thought the same thing when the daughter made that comment. I believe she knows the truth but is spouting out what she is told to say. She was raised in Scientology so this is what she knows. Maybe soon she will feel differently.
I know, I sent Mike an email asking about that but got no reply. I am sure it is a tough subject for him to discuss – I get that. I just dont get how these people bring their families into it KNOWING about the disconnection policy. Leah and Mike both mentoned that you never think you are going to leave but HELL even if my cable company said “once you sign up thats it” if you leave we chase you down. I would NEVER do it. Why roll the dice like that?
L Yash says
Kudos to Mike Rinder for very smartly and noticeably placing both his hands behind his back when he confronted the P.I. so that the P.I. could not accuse say on camera: “Did you see that, he was going to hit me”….. as DM did with Marc Headley.
My other comment was that I don’t know of a Church that does NOT encourage procreation. Having current church members birthing children GROWS the congregation, a steady source of income for those churches. To not have a church grow through it’s current membership having children seems to indicate sooner or later there will be LESS members to financially support the church…..
Mike Rinder says
Let’s make sure the real story is told, as it is easy for things to be misconstrued as scientology is such a complex subject rife with specialized jargon and acronyms.
The ONLY people in scientology not permitted to have children are Sea Org members. The most dedicated “clergy” of scientology. Catholic priests and nuns are not allowed to have children, they are not allowed to even marry. Buddhist monks do not have children. Scientology does promote procreation for the general members. Don’t want people to have the wrong impression.
L Yash says
What I was confused about was did the Sea Org members KNOW ahead of time that they would not be permitted to have children before they “moved up the ranks”. One MIGHT think that is the first thing CO$ would WANT to do is to have their TRUE loyalist Sea Org members have children who would move right up to Sea Org as they age, so that is unfathomable to me to forbid the higher ranked members childless on HIS orders..
Seeing lovely Claire’s pain at being forced to have an abortion about tore my heart out….as she said “some things can’t be healed”….
Yes, I do understand there are certain religions where it is not “permitted” to have children, or marry, i.e. Priests that’s been well documented. The CO$ rules and regulations are foreign to me and many others, WITHOUT Leah, you, Marc, Claire, Aaron, etc we would STILL be sitting in the dark not knowing much about CO$.
Thank You for explaining the Sea Org issue and also explaining some of the abbreviations that are used to us “newbies”…
Japanese Buddhist monks are allowed to marry and have families. Just for the record. 🙂
What’s weird about Scientology’s ‘priestly class’ (Sea Org) is that many of these people were recruited very, very young and made to sign ridiculous contracts. They don’t tell them they can’t marry, but then it seems they often separate couples for long periods of time anyway and if there are any children, they are raised apart from their parents in barracks. Subsequently those children have no or very few options to be raised & become part of the Sea Org. It’s rather dismal.
Dr. Maria Taheny says
In all fairness most religions with a priestly class recruit from the youth. Most perceive it as a vocation going back to the Ancient Hebrews. The difference here is Sci failed to see the consequence of viewing abortion as a solution which equates new life as unimportant. This is why Catholic priest vow celibacy and chastity. It is not to say sex and babies are bad but to show that it is a life choice that is made before, not after, a new life begins.
Maria, I see your point of comparison. But typical of cults, Scientology takes recruiting of the young to abusive extremes that do not really compare. I think what may be being referred to, that you are responding to, is the recruiting of children (at least in the past) younger than high school age and even before puberty (in contrast for instance to Catholic minor seminary, which begins at high school level and is preparation rather than actual commitment). I also can’t think of another legitimate priesthood, that requires child recruits who are still high school age to largely or completey abandon their parents and families, as effectively happens in the Sea Org. And then of course there are all the abuses, from the lying to parents about what they are actually giving minor children permission for, to violations of child labor laws in the hours and conditions that minors are subject to once they join.
Yes, many religions recruit from the youth, but (in modern times anyway) they are generally not made to sign life-long contracts and begin ministry while under age, unschooled, and unaware of the tenets of the faith. Even those that did/do, the acolytes continue to learn & study and aren’t expected to spend years in unpaid hard labor. In the Catholic church a youth may attend a seminary (High School age) where they study & learn about many subjects including their faith and are expected to attend college before decisions & commitments are made.
I’m not sure I follow?:
“The difference here is Sci failed to see the consequence of viewing abortion as a solution which equates new life as unimportant. This is why Catholic priest vow celibacy and chastity.”
Scientology used to allow married couples to have children but, from what I’ve read, they found that the raising of those children were problematic/expensive (as the Catholic church did). Scientology’s ‘solution’ of coerced abortions is a horrific one, to be sure, but I’m not sure how you follow ‘that is why Catholic priests vow celibacy and chastity’. Abortion is not the only option. Many faiths allow marriages/families/children and considers marriage & children to be a celebration of life. Scientology also splits up marriages, forcing out a pregnant wife (who refuses an abortion) and turns her husband against her. There are a myriad of abuses.
The (Roman) Catholic church was well over 1,000 years old (12 century, I believe) before they took a definitive stand on celibacy. Most of the first priests were married (as are Jewish priests/rabbi’s/Catholic Greek, Orthodox & Eastern rite, ministers of protestant faiths). Many faiths also have orders which are monastic and celibate, but is not expected from all of those who serve/go into ministry. At least some of Jesus’s apostles were married and their families traveled with them.
L Yash says
Does “Sea Org” permit long term birth control implants for women that prevent pregnancy? Married couples are going to engage in sex and without birth control she may become pregnant.
The other question I have is in regard to the two interlocking triangles I’ve seen displayed…..I would assume the letter “S” in the middle is for Scientology, what do these two triangles represent. .
I know of a widowed gentleman, the father of three grown children who were now adults, self supporting and living on their own, and he as a widower entered the Priesthood in his early 50’s and became a Priest.
Thank you for showing the link for the long list of former Scientologist, it was awesome to see so many have escaped the hold of CO$.
My other question is do you think most of them would write letters, testify about the abuses or even picket Clearwater and Hemet if called upon to do so?
Rob L says
First, Mike, easy for me to say and hard for you to do, but, keep up the good fight.
Any visibility on this topic is good, so ABC gets credit for that. I am, however, disappointed in the lack of discussion of the tax exemption. There is a new administration coming in 12 days who is not so beholden to Hollywood. Perhaps there’s an opportunity there.
Looking beyond the obvious flaws of Yingling and her statements (“… I don’t know about that, but I’ve been told….” – priceless), one must look at the decision itself to use an attorney as their spokesman. On it’s face, it makes clear Miscaviage is on the defensive.
Visibility and patience. The law will catch up with them.
Who is not so beholden to Hollywood? I’m puzzled by your comment. How is the outgoing administration beholden in a way that the new administration would not be? The new administration is far more.. comfortable/a part of Hollywood than the old one. Especially at the outset.
Mike Wynski says
WalkSoftly, the answer will be found in the total amount of campaign contributions from Hollywood to the Obamao Admin and supported PACs vs. the Trump campaigns take.
The answer is really too simple to NOT know if one knows ANYTHING about campaign funding in the USA.
Amen Mike. So you have to ask yourself what 20/20 was afraid of….. and we all know the answer to that: lawsuit. I also suspect someone at ABC has close ties with Tom Cruise.
Alice Graves says
If I had serious alcoholic eyes like Ms. Yingling, I would be blinking all over the place and averting my eyes so the cameras couldn’t see, too.
For many professionals who make great livings defending the indefensible, drink or drugs are the only outlets of comfort for their uneasy souls. Don’t expect her public persona to get any better – that would be impossible given what she has to live with inside her skin.
Sue Paschall says
I’ve been following Mike’s blog and reading about the scientology matter since Leah”s show started. I’m a Christian and as such I am mindful of not judging others, however the practices of this group has tested me to new limits. The lying in particular has said it all for me. People who live a life of integrity do not lie about others, lie by omission, or mislead people thru denial, deception, finger pointing, attacking others … the list goes on and on. DM’s lack of accountability says it all for me because people will continue doing what works for them and will not change what they don’t acknowledge. Leah, Mike, and many others have demonstrated true courage in taking on the giant. I pray the truths they’ve reveal will set them free from their own pain, and liberate others. God bless them
Ivan McDonald says
I’m sorry, I can’t take a Christian seriously when they say people shouldn’t lie. The whole is Christianity is based on lies.
Stop bashing christians.
Yeah Ivan Christianity is based on lies? Never mind the 10 Commandments or the Golden rule,etc. People who have gone astray and lie do not represent the religion.
Or when they say they arent being judgemental, and then make a whole lot of judgements. And include a few faintly veiled antisemetic comments in there too. “Hollywood”…. quit bashing christians, that is their forte.
Let’s CUT TO THE CHASE.
OUR secret is that you know that we know that you have been peeking (LOTS) at the internet. Dave could never ask you about that.
BUT, Dave knows that we know that you PEEK.
This makes eye contact difficult and your life increasingly miserable. All you can do is repeat your repertoire of ‘catch phrase’ no answers and denials. Innuendo. But when you actually DO KNOW otherwise (so what if no one ‘told’ you), you are a LIAR.
At 65, you are fading FAST.
What happens when Wiki puts your URL history on the internet? Prosecution. You and Dave. By design, Dave has painted both of you into the same corner.
BTW, has Dave refused to pay you for your horrible performance? Is that what is preventing you from going under the knife to deflate those bags under those eyes? Maybe if you had sent some muffins to Dave, he would have provided a makeup crew. Nonetheless, applying that makeup at the stop lights on the way to the interview, did not work well.
James Olack says
This so called “neutrality” that the media tries to deliver is the reason so many people can deny climate change and why we’re stuck with a narcissistic misogynist a la Hubbard for President. What all these so-called journalists have yet to figure out is that neutrality is not about giving equal weight to both sides. If fifty scientists say climate change is real, and one says it’s not real, you don’t give each side an equal platform. If you do, equality causes a loss of neutrality.
Preach!! I personally was under the misguided impression that journalist ARE SUPPOSED to uncover the TRUTH NOT BE NEUTRAL.. How can u find the truth on a subject if you do not ask the hard questions? Shame on DH 4 NOT DOING HIS JOB..
“…the reason so many people can deny climate change and why we’re stuck with a narcissistic misogynist a la Hubbard for President. ”
I was wondering if anyone else was seeing the same stuff I was seeing. However, I don’t think neutrality is the only problem, there are a lot of extremist and conspiracy programs out there who have quite a following and they have skewed ‘journalism’ alongside ‘infotainment’.
Mike, the show was a little disjointed, but to those who tuned into the 20/20 show with new eyes, they were really floored to see that “spokesperson”. We all started to blink a little too much as we watched her, and no – we didn’t think it was because of lights, or allergies. Pressure? Well, if you noticed she even rolled her eyes under that blinking. *snort* We felt annoyed, and she was not believable.
I had already watched other shows, so for those who hadn’t gotten caught up, they had some very good questions and interest. That made them want to dig in more. That is the most important thing. To reach other people who have been too busy with other things, that they haven’t watched or done the research yet.
That “spokesperson” [the lawyer] was a gift. That is one big score for the “good” team.
Agree with every point. The goal is to expand awareness. We did.
I Yawnalot says
In the war with Scientology, this is just a skirmish. However, everything said and done, especially on air is now public record. It’s all valuable ammunition. The most dangerous aspect of any combatant is patience and a good memory. Deadly tools in the right hands. Another good tool is urban camouflage, that is, another life, like family, kids, career and such, something the Scientologist does not have. Even the Scientology tools of ARC can be turned against a Scientologist – just wait – they will fuck up and dig their hole a little deeper!
michael cox says
Hey, I think Scientology comes out looking like a dushbag in this 20/20. Really. And I am an ex and a big fan. I am Jeff H’s friend. I think that this 20/20 is still a score for the side of good. Baby steps.
Holli Hargis says
It is douche bag. Great insult btw on of my favs
Just the fact that Monica Yingling denied Joberg sec checks all scientologist, current or former, know she is lying. That in itself is huge. Just like when they deny disconnection. I also love Leah’s A&E series and think it will make a big difference.
Dan Harris is actually pretty great. He wrote 10% Happier which I loved and I follow his podcasts. He’s done many in depth interviews that I have found very helpfu in my own recovery from scn.
I hope you can feature Serge in your next season. He has a more of a story that needs to be shared with a TV audience.
I’ve enjoyed and learned from the superb comments tonite, so I just want to add my voice to the chorus of warm and sincere thanks to you, Mike Rinder, for all that you do. You are the BEST.
I really enjoyed McMuffin Yingling offering contradicting answers to the 20/20 interview. In addition, her personal e-meter was buzzing at warp speed when, her eyes rolled back in her head, searching her mental hard drive for obscure answers. The Vatican is the richest and smallest state in the world, only to be followed by Scientology. Wonder how church members, barely keeping their heads above water in foreign countries, liked seeing all the massive $cientology Buildings oufitted with gold trim ?
I am in Australia watching Leah’s show as soon as some kind person uploads the latest episode to YouTube. I really hope A&E can sell the series to one of our local TV stations as I was told by a friend on Friday that he was approached in Sydney by a person asking if he wanted to do a free personality test. This man knew nothing about Scientology and initially asked the person approaching him, if he was something to do with the Mormon church. I filled my friend in about Scientology. I’m no expert on the subject but after seeing Going Clear, My Scientology Movie, reading this blog and Steve Cannane’s book, I have seen and heard things that beggar belief.
Leah and Mike are a terrific team with so much compassion for the people they interview.
How could any human being listen to Serge, see his distress and the damage he has suffered, then call him a liar. I don’t think there is a hell but I wish there were so that Yingling could find out what it’s like to suffer.
Julie P. says
I live in Queens, NY, but don’t have a tv, so I also depend on the kindness of Youtube strangers for Remini show uploads.
Leah & Mike’s show has been incredibly moving to watch. I survived an abusive relationship, myself, and the parallels between what I experienced & what the ex-scientologists suffered is astounding. Brainwashing, crushing of self-esteem, outright physical & emotional abuse, detachment & isolation from my family & from the world at large, and the resulting dependence on my abuser are just a few of the miserable parallels.
It’s been almost 5 years since I left my abuser, but watching this show is actually helping me feel less alone, less weird, for what I experienced. The show is gripping, and it is helping me continue to move on, in my own life.
Thank you, Mike & Leah, for all of your compassionate work!
e g.g.e. says
Mormons do not ask people if they want a free personality test
I just watched the 20/20 episode. As far as it being disjointed, it seems that ABC thought up the theme “A war without guns” and the interposing of old tape of Mike and Marty fed into that, in order to make an updated timeline of where the current push back on the church began, leading up to Leah’s activism. Whatever… it’s okay.
Monique Yingling was a great contribution in that she is a complete disaster as a spokesperson for the church. What church has a paid lawyer who isn’t even a member of the ‘faith’ be a spokesperson for it? It speaks volumes that not one Scientologist could be trusted by David Miscavige to speak for the CoS. He trusts no one but the woman he pays. Why are there no upper level officials, or executives taking on that role? Apparently, they can’t be trusted either. This is not a good look.
I hope Leah does a second season and has a full hour of Serge Gil, if he’s ready to do that. I hope he’s doing okay, and wish him well. The best thing he said to me was to disconnect from the toxicity that is the culture of the church. A church that has its parishioners make discredit videos of their own family members. It’s very disgusting.
I would think what the church was going for in the retaining of Yingling is (first a top tax (evasion) law firm) but also what they would view as a ‘legit’ outside source giving them approval and legitimacy as an organization. While that may have worked for awhile, as time has gone on her answers ‘I’ve been told’ and ‘From what I’ve heard’ begin to ring very, very hollow. Of course she doesn’t know squat. Only what has been told to her from those who are paying her. That damages her credibility immeasurably. And it damages the credibility of Scientology. Win-win.
You’re right, Mike, ABC tended to set up for the knock out punch, and then drop its hands. But I am not seeing it quite as negatively. That was my first opportunity to see Yingling on the screen, and she was awful. She swayed not one single person. Overall, CoS lost very big, because the show played to a wide audience, Harris mocked the Church’s deceit, and CoS was clobbered on every segment — including their ridiculous defenses.
The thing that I find frustrating is that, to do any show on Scientology, you have to spend half of the time explaining Scientology. Viewing the tenets objectively, the man on the street sees the CoS as wacky. At this point, we need to show the general public that the CoS is more than wacky, they are corrupt and dangerous.
Now, let’s get Serge on Aftermath next season!
Mick Roberts says
You’re absolutely correct Ross about how most people view CoS. My limited knowledge of CoS used to be that it was a group that was just wacky (Xenu from South Park, Cruise dogging Brooke Shields, and a founder that seemed a bit creepy from the few videos I saw of him from time to time).
I didn’t understand how abusive and dangerous it was until Leah left the church. My wife and I were huge King of Queens fans, so one random day I remember I was just looking through some news sites on my computer, and I saw her name mentioned and I was curious what she was up to at that time after King of Queens. As I read the story, I started thinking “Man, this sounds like a really bad group”. Then along comes the Going Clear documentary a couple of years ago which kept me interested, but learning the “language of Scientology” (as you alluded to) was just too deep for me. Finally, with the Aftermath series with Leah and Mike, and seeing the personal stories and how they deeply affected me on an emotional level (which is tough to do for me), that’s when I really took an interest in this topic and can understand the conversation quite a bit more when these “Hubbard words” are discussed.
Somehow finding a way of explaining it for people like the person I was pre-Leah, so it can relate to regular folks hearing about this for the first time, is vital to getting the word out about how truly damaging this organization is. Leah and Mike have taken an enormous step in that direction with the Aftermath show in my opinion, based on how I’m even hearing about it from some of my friends now.
Yeah, I think that Aftermath is one of the biggest steps toward getting the public to see and care. Many people, including here, are intrinsically interested because of their personal contact with the CoS. That is great, but the war will be won when we can bring in those like me who have never had any contact. I was compelled by Scientology’s story years ago, when I first read about Leah’s escape (covered best, as I recall, by People magazine). The story of CoS is intrinsically fascinating, but pretty complex. But it is still, nonetheless, just a matter of exposure — the more times the topic hits the public’s awareness, the more it is apt to sink in as national conventional wisdom, that Scientology is an evil force.
Ms Yingling does not look at all happy to be on the show. I wonder what goes on in her head re: her Church clients.
J. Kirby Van Zandt says
I shall now call her “Blinky”.
I agree! Plus that, she looked as though she took a really strong sedative and could hardly keep her eyes open. She looked awful ~ but I bet SHE doesn’t work for FREE:)
A strong sedative or muscle relaxer. SOMA came to mind because it’s side effects can be rapid blinking, aggitation, and if abused severe body twitching. She seemed relaxed but not relaxed…SOMA.
So, I had my mom watch 20/20 with me today after she told me that she got through all of the Aftermath episodes. Aftermath was my mom’s first exposure to Scientology. She immediately asked if she could borrow the books I have on Scientology, and so she got all 10 of my ebooks that I downloaded on her tablet! She thought that Yingling was abrasive and came off as a typical scummy lawyer, always skirting the truth. She also said that David Miscavage comes off as a huge creep in the rare interviews and appearances he’s done. She was extremely moved by Aftermath and is now hooked to finding out the truth.
SP Browning says
I’m a never in. I thought that Muffins was struggling to respond as Dan walked her through various questions regarding the exposure of children to sexual material by the church during auditing. The existence of the Joberg questions really kills the church.
In America we have a large Catholic population which is used to a radically different form of confession. (Supposed to be anonymous, no notes taken, no cost, and no scripted questions)
I would suggest that in a remaining episode that Leah have Serge on, and really go after this issue. “Were you forced as a teenager to ask older men and women about their sexual practices? How so?”
It puts the creepness factor up to a 10 of 10.
You’re doing great work Mike!
You and Leah did a great job in your appearance 20/20.
Although I know you are frustrated about the “soft shoe” that ABC did on $cientology be assured that anyone who watched the show was not fooled by M Yingling’s spotty and almost laughable defense. It was clear that either she does not understand how $Scientology works or she does and was lying. Her response to the questions about Jborg Sec check would have been funny had the subject matter not been so serious.
Martin Luther King said this about the Civil Rights Movement and it could certainly applies to the work you,Leah, Tony and many others are doing to this trapped in this vicious cult:
“The arc of the moral universe is long, but it bends toward justice.”
Keep the good work up.
Mike Rinder says
YEs, you realize my “appearance” on this program was cobbled together from interviews done a long time ago… I made no statements currently.
You were there “in spirit”! AAAROOUGH!
This is where I often get confused, when they put in old clips. Is Marty Rathbun (Sp) on the good side now? Or did he return back to the dark side? It’s giving me whiplash:(
Also ~ I have questions too ~ who was the last to leave the church? Any new defectors?
No I did not realize that Mike- but having said that it was still a victory for those in the right- being you Leah Tony and others! Not an overwhelming victory, which I daresay will never happen in one swoop, but a victory none the less.
Lets look at it another way- you kicked $cientology’s A$$ without even showing up in “real time” ;>) !
Martha Miller says
So true. You rock, Mike. People are hearing your message!
If anyone wants to read the Jo Berg Sec Check in its delusional police state like madness. Here is a link. This is from the mind of L Ron Hubbard.
Notice that these things are considered sins in Scientology.
And notice that having sex with another race other than your own is an interrogation question.
Remember that when folks are telling you how great and wise L Ron Hubbard was and is.
You heard about Sec Checks. It’s when the auditor interrogates you to find crimes.
Read this weird one. This one is top dog looney toons. And Scientologists pay to have these questions asked.
YOU WILL NOT BELIEVE IT!!
We must expose this dangerous cult and save our kids from it.
Barbara Carr says
This is stupifying. The fact that people, intelligent people, actually paid people to ask these questions let alone answer them is beyond my understanding. Thank you for allowing us to see this. It makes me want to vomit, but it certainly brought the evil home.
Joe Pendleton says
Haven’t had a chance to read the comments yet to this post. Mike, I got everything you said in your comments on this and here’s my immediate take after seeing the video. It’s just REALLY bad pub for the CoS. It’s another story on network TV painting the CoS as a crazy/bad organization and I think that’s the main and essential takeaway that any non-scientologist will have after watching it. Their takeaway will in NO way shape or form be: hey, I think I’d like to get involved with these people. It will most certainly be: STAY AWAY! And I think that’s the bottom line, much more important than any other consideration about the program. (*and yeah, Leah was fucking FANTASTIC!)
Joe Pendleton says
And I also thought that you and Marty came off very well in making your points.
Doug Parent says
Nobody makes Scientology look worse than Monique Yingling. Good job David Miscavige on that assignment. Your true opinion for Scientology as a subject and for Scientologists, being as low as it is, communicates PERFECTLY in your choice of spokesperson. Well done. No one, absolutely no one… loves to denigrate Scientology more than you David Miscavige. Thats clear….. “crystal clear” Hi Tom!
Mike, I watched the 20/20 episode last night, and I was so angry! Why is this idiot Lingying, or whatever her name is, representing Scientology, when she is a wog? She doesn’t know what she’s talking about, obviously. I was so pissed off at her attitude! She drives me crazy. When will Miscavige come out of hiding and defend his beloved “religion”? So, so pissed off.
Yes Miscavige is in hiding. Maybe he should be referred to as David Chickenshit Miscavige henceforth.
Justin Testin says
Given his propensity for violence, you could alternately mispronounce his last name “McSavage”.
This. Is. Awesome. McSavage. Kudos!!!
Chee Chalker says
I know there are a lot of ‘LRH good, SOB bad’ people who read this blog, so I apologize if this offends anyone
I think LRH was a pervert. The obsession with masturbation, allowing young girls and boys to ask older men sexual questions, the fear of homosexuality (yet engaging in it himself during his Pasadena days (as many have reported) etc etc.
SOB did not invent all this stuff. SOB is just fruit from a poisonous tree.
As far as SOB is concerned….this sums him up IMO (a quote from ‘Spinal Tap’:) “they’re wading in a pool of retarded sexuality”. (Apologies for use of the ‘R’ word. The movie is almost 40 years old(!))
Yes Chee, all of this madness is from applying the writings of L Ron Hubbard.
He is still lodged in some minds as a benevolent force worthy of emulating.
Emulating from the standpoint of auditing his deluded imaginings.
I sometimes think Mike that you should create a press pack of How Scientology Deals With Critics: L Ron Hubbard’s Playbook.
This way journalists will have source materials to ask Scientology Lawyers.
And when the lawyers start lying, just have them quote Ron’s writing on creating deception.
They can see a behavior and then quote something that mirrors back their behavior.
That can be powerful.
Kim Davidson says
“Muffins” blinks more than in one hour than I do in a 24 hour period. It’s a shame that Scientology must have eaten Dan Harris’s balls for lunch. Bravo to Leah Remini standing for what she believes in, Mike Rinder for having such courage to keep all of us in the loop, and quite frankly, “asshole” is a nicer word than I would have chosen for Harris.
The work you are all doing is to be applauded and commended. Watching 20/20 last night really pissed me off having to sit and listen to Ling Ling Ding Ding spew her lies, all while her answers were pretty much the same, SCRIPTED by the MORONS of this torrid organization. I am very well aware plus more of what goes on within those walls. It’s sickening.
I am hoping that your work continues and the exposure will find its way to those that deserve justice for the losses of family, the heartbroken parents of those family members that still remain in the depths of hell, and those that escaped and are trying to assemble some kind of life outside. Thank you Leah Remini and to you, Mike Rinder and your team. You are bringing what was once in darkness to light.
I guess better a puff piece than no piece at all. They did do a terribly superficial job. And Leah sure found that journalist annoying and I can see why.
20/20 fluff news reporting. Not surprised.Had I not already seen all 6 A&E episodes I would have been confused.
Muffin Y. was unbelievable. The constant blinking, flip flop answers she gave reinforce the underlying message that cos is BAD to the bone.
I did learn some disturbing information from Serge. Bull bating and the joburg sec check process. WTH. Minors sec checking older adults about their sex lives, really! Oh yeah it’s OK because your just old thetans in young bodies. The treatment of minor children should be enough for the LAW to get a clue and shut this fake religion down.
How do the underage children legally get a pass out of school?
Thank God Serge has escaped and received the counseling he truly needed.
I hope Marty R. is OK. Good, decent people harassed for attempting to live a life of freedom.
Thank you Mike & Leah for all your hard work.
I’m with ya Stacy and have questions, too. I’m curious to know how the underage children are exempt from attending school. Is the SO masquerading as a ‘school’ and no one has ever checked their credentials or followed up on the reports of people leaving there who say they have no education? I’m also curious about what documents, if any, the parents have signed to allow their underage children to live at various orgs. and/or ‘work’ at the SO. Have the parents appointed someone at SO to be their kids’ legal guardians for the time they’re away from home?
Marilyn p. says
I completely agree with you, ms. Ying Ling couldn’t stop blinking, brainwashed into standing up for them poor lady and all those poor people disconnected from families saying that their families that left are liars, they all have a blank stare in their eyes, they can’t think for themselves, it’s scary they think they can hide but someone does need to get in there to see what’s going on , they make parents sign their children to them this is just like another version of the flds poor, poor lost souls
Andrea Guglielmo says
Mike, You and Leah are phenomenal to say the least! This 20/20 episode wasn’t nearly as informative as your documentary. Leah thank you for calling Dan an asshole that put it mildly…..and the scientologists that commented during the program were catatonic…..We need the IRS would to audit the so called church and collect over a billion dollars in taxes and that attorney Monique Yuengling looks like she’s on something…with her blue eyes…lol one blew east one blew west. YOU AND LEAH ARE COURAGEOUS , INFORMATIVE, COMPASSIONATE, AND DETERMINED!!!
I will stay stuned!! AMG730..from NJ
Mary Kate Horbac says
What i don’t understand is that i thought it was the law that children were REQUIRED to be in school up until a certain age. And what happens to the poor people who leave who no education? At least some have managerial or audio/visual experience.
Carol Gaines says
The Fundamentalist Latter Day Mormons (FLDM) on the Arizona/Colorado border also do not get and formal education other than memorizing quotes from the Prophet Warren Jeffs. The US government does nothing about them either. We would rather worry about children in other parts of the world not being educated than to correct the issue here in the United States with the children in Scientology and FLDMs in our own country. It is truly a shame.
Carol Gaines, so true. I think of ‘churches’ like Scientology, Jehovah’s Witness, Warren Jeff’s FLDM, etc.. when I hear people discussing religious freedom. I DO believe religious freedom is important, but we need to have some laws/oversight so that the unscrupulous do not abuse this power/our laws.
We make it way too easy to homeschool, especially for religious reasons. In many states the parents don’t have to provide any proof of actual learning, just sign a paper saying they are home schooled. I know of people who have moved states just to have less regulation. I don’t know the laws for the relevant state but there are millions of uneducated kids out there.
Mike Wynski says
Shyla, that is called human rights. You should study the subject sometime as it is obvious that you are clueless.
My friend pulled his kid out of a public school to home school because they were NOT teaching US history but WERE teaching his 13 year old how to use sex toys.
Then you’re okay with “homeschooled” Scientology kids who learn nothing but Scientology. I’m not.
L Yash says
Under Educated kids as well…..some of these religious zealots do not allow children to read the Literary Classics like Romeo and Juliet, Scarlet Letter, Tom Sawyer, etc because they contain “dirty words and sexual innuendo”….that my dear is not allowed in “their world”….
Also keeping these kids under educated keeps them from being able to find jobs that pay well, and it keeps them from achieving CRITICAL THINKING….
they can’t compare what they have been taught to anything else because they’ve never been allowed to have access to it….and so it goes……Mind control
Mike Wynski says
L Yash, Tom Sawyer was banned in the public school my kid went to in 1992 in California due to it being “racist”. It is best to let a parent decide rather than some unaccountable censors, of ANY stripe.
Unless YOU think you know better than children’s parents?
L Yash says
Knew a child who refused to dissect a frog in Biology…they let it slide…….Some reading material may be deemed inappropriate by the or a parents who object to it.
There were times there were Book Burnings because of racial slurs, sexual innuendo, or profanity.
it’s a different word now with some reading material declared “racist” and not “politically correct” and those readings may be judged by the school district as inappropriate reading material.
Mike Wynski says
No L Yash, it isn’t really different. You just have a different set of fruitcakes making the decisions today. Today it is primarily government nuts doing so.
If you’d rather have the government override what YOU want for your children, fine. Just don’t be tyrannical enough to try and force it onto others.
Theresa Nault says
I don’t want to detract further from the topic, but why do Harvard and Yale have recruiting personel for homeschoolers, if they are so uneducated? My homeschooled daughter was on the Dean’s list when studying for her university degree.
Home school children slightly outperform public educated children on every level, and by a larger margin, they out perform them in social skills. Are some falling through the cracks? Yes, but so are they in the public system.
Parents have always been considered the primary educators of their children. Take that right away from parents, and you have a state controlled population.
Quality of education can vary greatly.. in a public school, a private school, or a home school. I’ve seen good & bad in all 3. While I’m not a fan of standardized testing, this is the strongest case for it, to make sure, no matter how a student is educated, that they meet minimum standards in (especially) core subjects. I have seen wonderfully intelligent, well behaved home-schooled children and I have seen (usually mothers) struggle with an unruly difficult-to-teach child. I have seen teachers in formal school settings deal with difficult children too. I know a home-school mother who had 4 children; 2 easy to teach and 2 difficult to teach who she eventually sent to both public & private schools. However, in math for example, she only wanted cubits used for teaching. I won’t even go into her view of history & science. It’s stuff like that which doesn’t usually serve the student well going into adulthood.
I worked at ACT, the college entrance exam company, and homeschoolers do slightly above mainstream kids on the ACT overall. However, I have a granddaughter who has been homeschooled much of her life in a strict Christian fundamentalist home, and I read one of her textbooks on science. It has sentences such as, “God designed bees so they would carry pollen….” On every page, outrageous knowledge claims were made tying everything back to God. So she might do okay on a test like the ACT by the time she is old enough to take it, but there is something seriously lacking in her education.
“Home school children slightly outperform public educated children on every level, and by a larger margin, they out perform them in social skills. ”
Interesting. Links to studies please.
Theresa Nault, I have to refute your claim: you stated that “Home school children slightly outperform public educated children on every level, and by a larger margin, they out perform them in social skills.” I totally disagree. Home schooled children are proven to be lacking in social skills. They have not had group interaction, so they haven’t formed many abilities learned from interacting with others, children and adults alike.
I’ve had conversations with teachers who overwhelmingly say that homeschooled children are far behind their peers in social skills, they are in many ways socially inept, don’t have group work skills, nor conflict resolution skills, are not perceptive in social situations, have difficulty forming friendships, are unable to take leadership roles or think “outside of the box”.
My children and others have told me of how previously homeschooled children in their classrooms focus entirely on themselves, always rushing to be the first to answer, even when the teacher tries to tell them “it’s someone else’s turn now” and they might actually learn something by letting someone else give an answer. They don’t share, they don’t recognize subtle hints and cues in behavior, they are missing critical interpersonal interaction skills. I realize you are biased because you say that your own children are home schooled, but this is largely the perception about children who do not attend school with others for valid reasons. Please look at the research and studies online and published opinions from educators, physicians, and others.
The biggest impact of the whole show was when Muffins “Blinky” Yingling said that it was sometimes appropriate to ask a 14 year old these sexual questions. I can guarantee that no parent will feel okay about an organization with that attitude.
Nobody could make this shit up! A billion year contract? WTF!!!
Eleanor Milward says
Someone DID make it up!! A science fiction story teller with a history of mental illness!(ask his first wife,) that is why Scientology does not like or forbids psychiatry! He even said himself “If you want to control people make up a religion”And he did !!
It was definitely weak compared to the show on A&E. I love Aftermath, I record it every Tuesday. I have been wanting this cult exposed ever since I watched Going Clear. I was horrified, disgusted, anxious, and pissed off all at the same time. I sadly cannot listen to Bohemian Rhapsody anymore and I love Queen. If that song comes on in my car I can’t change the station fast enough because it makes me uncomfortable. That’s just 1 more reason for me to hate DM, of course it’s at the bottom of the list. While having a vodka tonic after watching Going Clear , (seriously needed it after that crazy shit) I wished there was something I could do to help free those still in it, especially the children. It would be amazing if any network on basic cable would show that documentary on a repeat reel so it could be seen by as many people as possible. I love you and Leah and the work you guys are doing to help stop this cult. Please never stop fighting for the many families who need you. It is truly sad that this Is happening in the U.S….and it’s tax exempt at that! David Miscavige is an evil, coward, child abusing, sociopath, psycopath, and much, much more who needs to not only be stopped but put in jail for life. As a girl standing at 5’2 & 120lbs. I’d love to have a go at him.
Wouldn’t work, Linds. His armed security gaurds, without whom he will not appear anywhere, would prevent you from mussing his hair! 🙂
Kathy H. says
Miscavige lives in a high-security bubble, surrounded by guards…which makes Ms. Yingling’s whining about death threats even more laughable.
Lol??? ugh…but he’s such a little bitch…??
Carrie Apperson says
Mike, is Dan Harris a Scientologist? As I’m watching this 20/20 episode, I had to pause it and try and figure out what was going on because it seemed Dan was not very kind in the way he spoke to/about Leah. I feel like this was leaning in favor of Scientology and am completely SHOCKED!! I watch your and Leahs show and I’ve followed her since leaving the cult and am totally outraged nobody with the power to investigate these people and this organization haven’t done a thing! My heart breaks for the ones that fear leaving this cult because they don’t want to lose their loved ones. I think the organization/cult is disgusting and it needs to be brought down…but how?! Everyone involved in exposing this cash cow, abusive, terroristic, life sucking, mind stealing organization has my attention and the attention of tons and tons of others, but I’m sick to my stomach that nothing is being done to stop them! Keep doing what your doing Mike, I have faith and lots of hope that it will amount to something that will get the attention to be investigated and brought down and hopefully David Miscavige will get what he deserves, as well as his steadfast, brainwashed suck ups!!!!
Well said!!!! I do have to say that when I started watching Leah’s show it was so mind blowing that I had to keep reminding myself the story was in the present tense!! That’s how disturbing it is!
Brenda Crosby says
I thought the same thing Carrie
Marc Frank says
The show is doing great and creating a lot of Buzz on all of social media, and its about to become massive. The both of you have pretty much opened up a full can of, 100 percent PURE WOOP ASS.
This is why I didn’t even bother to watch. After years of seeing network TV totally abandon investigative reporting and countless balls dropped on Scientology stories, I had a sense that this would be lukewarm used bathwater slosh, as described. And it sickens me to watch that stuff.
Of course if it had gotten good reviews here I would have happily watched later, but now no need. Thank you all who cooperated with Disney (lay it at the feet of the owner) for trying.
Oh dear…Threats against Dave Miscabies- tell the two people that care.
Old Surfer Dude says
Really? Two? That support the dwarf? I could have sworn it was one…
Muffins and DM himself of course.
L Yash says
It is ONE…….Me, Myself and I…….(DM)
You can find two people who’d actually care?!?
I can only find one: himself.
No, Davie counts as two. (He is schizoid.)
Nick Clay says
Meh I don’t think Tom likes lil’ Davey much unless he needs some free slave labor or a new girlfriend or something. Tommy bot pretty much just likes tommy boy when push comes to shove IMHO.
Marc Frank says
20/20 Most likely put the show together quickly because its everywhere on all social media and becoming a hot topic before the other networks. Like you said, and it was bittersweet, The both of you have created a following that is getting bigger everyday and with strong legs to stand on. The short of a long story, the series has opened up a full can of WOOP ASS
20/20 could have made a bigger impact if they took their time “putting the show” together & did real investigative journalism…….this topic deserved a whole lot more effort!!!
Michael Fairman says
“Fair and balanced” “reporting” has destroyed journalism.
Mike Wynski says
LOL, Michael journalism died by the mis-60’s. You are a few decades late
Kathy H. says
“Journalism died by the mid-60’s”? I think Woodward and Bernstein would disagree with you.
Investigative journalism is supposed to expose the truth, not some manufactured false equivalency where you prop up a side- especially the side of an abuser. At least that’s the way I approached my reporting as a former newspaper journalist. Broadcast news are the biggest offenders, mostly because it’s more explosive and grabs viewers’ attention when conflict is heightened, thus higher ratings and an increase in revenue (because they can jack up commercial advertising prices.) The result is not just shitty journalism… It’s anti-truth. John Oliver did a segment on this a few months ago, complaining about the equal number of debate panelists on each side of an issue on news programs. Instead of showing 3 people arguing the science behind global warming and 3 against, he brought out a panel of 3 global warming deniers and then 97 people to argue for. That’s what journalism is supposed to reveal…the truth. As far as last night’s program, can you imagine the victim of a Catholic priest coming forward to tell details of inappropriate sexual discussion as a pubescent, and the investigative reporter saying it’s not his job to judge whether or not that’s disgusting? Or how about any other child abuse victim? Good for Leah… as far as so-called “investigative journalists” like Dan, they need become reacquainted with how to pursue truth and reveal it.
Kathy H. says
Your comment made me think of former NBC news investigative reporter Michael Isikoff, who left the network in frustration, claiming that then-anchor Brian Williams was against airing hard-hitting investigative stories, because he “didn’t want to be polarizing”. The priority now is popularity and high ratings.
Zenster Zenly says
Well said. In addition, several weeks ago CBS Sunday Morning show did a piece with Nicole Kidman that emphasized her love of family with absolutely NO mention that Scientology broke up her previous family by ordering Tom Cruise to divorce her and then brainwashing her adopted children against her (She is a SP) LAMESTREAM media is all puff pieces these days and is basically useless.
Mike Wynski says
Kathy, where were those two when Johnson openly stole the election to get to Washington? You see, journalists CANNOT be partisan. THAT is a HUGE part of the definition. 😉
My thoughts exactly. Not the first or last “investigation” to make the error of thinking that there are only two sides to a story and both have equal weight.
While I think the show did do some good, overall I was left feeling frustrated. It seems in this era, journalists mistake fair and balanced inquiry with false equivalency. They give equal credit to both sides, even though one side’s case is clearly more believable, compelling and significant, and they KNOW IT but they think they have to be “neutral”. I think it’s likely that the Church laid down some guidelines, and insisted 20/20 present the Scientology propaganda or they wouldn’t participate. 20/20 went for the shiny, glittering nugget. Too bad it was fool’s gold.
“Dan Harris is no Mike Wallace. But he could be. He has more material than Mike Wallcae ever had. He is just lacking one thing. Mike Wallace’s balls.” Well said, Mike. Total truth. We good journalists like in the old days: Mike Wallace, Dan Rather and others. Nowadays they think they are being fair and neutral when in reality they are practicing Spectatorism. Spectatorism is where you have no balls and you just sit on the sidelines and observe everything happening and don’t pick a side and fight and don’t do anything to make it better or to solve problems.
Maybe Dan was afraid the church would sue him if he went after her more. But as you pointed out, even suing is not on the table nowadays as the church hasn’t sued since they sued Time magazine in the early 90’s. (Whatever happened on that lawsuit anyway? Did Time “win”?)
I also was disappointed that aDan didn’t ask the obvious question to Muffin Yingling: “Have YOU been paid by the church of Scn to be here to talk to me?”
Ok, never in here, so that’s outta the way. When I had a major surgery and after I had lost a few folks that were very close to me, I started surfing the net. Was bedridden for 6weeks. I do not know what made me start looking at the Scientology stuff. But lucky for me the first things I ran across, were the Truth Rundown in the St. Petersburg Times. Which then put me to Tony’s site, in the very beginning. And I was hooked. So for someone like me that watched the 20/20 show, I am in agreement that it was not necessary to have Ms. Yingling to counter everything that was said. However I forced my Husband to watch this last night with me. My hubby does not give 2 shits about scientology or anti scientology. If it does not involve racing forms or stock info, he has no interest. But he did watch the show with me. I said not one word to him about it, while it was on. After, I asked what he took away from it. His words were, I would not hire that woman to clean my septic tank, if we had one. Talking about the lawyer. And then he said, I shit you not, ( Now I l will not be able to watch Tom Cruise again.) So if nothing else, I will not be forced to watch Top Gun, on lazer disc no less, ever again.
I can see where Mike and others that have been abused, may think scientology got off easier, by having a view point on 20/20. But trust me, those of us that have never been or even paid attention to anything going on with scientology, we got it. And are getting it more and more with Leah’s show. Where Scientology is concerned, all news is good news, only not for Scientology.
Mike, you and Leah keep up the good work, you have so much support, more then you may even know. The last thing I want to say is that I am so happy for all of you that did manage to leave, and then prosper in life. And I am not talking about money. But you have a fulfilling life.
Really cool to get that outside perspective – thanks!
You are most certainly welcome.
Wow. I guess it is possible to sell one’s soul to the devil (Yingling). She came off as unbalanced. Her body language and words definitely said ‘liar’. Perhaps that is why they showed so much of her. They could claim to give ‘the other side’ voice, but that ‘voice’ did not serve them in a credible way.
They said, ‘much more’ on Marty Rathbun ‘later’ but then nothing? Or did I miss it? I missed the original broadcast so I watched it online.
Tasha Gunderson says
Also, the Shelly Miscavage “missing/not missing” aspect needs to be looked at a lot closer….
Completely agree. Leah and Mike…….. YOU CAN MAKE THAT HAPPEN!!!!!
gato rojo says
I hope the same can be done for Heber. Other than Annie and a few others who have already passed while being covertly “imprisoned,” his story is the one that saddens me the most (of all the stories I actually know about. I’m sure there are more).
Mike and Leah. Just wanted you both to know how important the message is your sending out to all the misguided in Scientology!!!! Your A&E series is a complete success!! I only hope it gets to the unfortunate people associated with this cult!!!! Exposing this issue to the world will help others become free from the bonds of Scientology. Without people like you showing all of us the true evils of this (cult business). The world would simply pass these people bye. I reside in the Clearwater area and see it first hand. Please keep up the great work your doing!!!!
Marilyn p. says
I’m afraid that they’re so brainwashed and there that they will never understand there’s so deep into this crazy Sikh religion and all the b******* that they’re saying to make them believe that they’re doing good and being away from their family because they don’t believe in what they believe in is right oh boy what a disaster I really really feel bad for them and I hope there some way just like hit them in the head and make them real life all of this is insane wake up and smell the roses
I watched the show, and although I am already fully convinced of Scientology’s abuses and corruption, I don’t think anyone with any sense would have believed the lawyer. She pulled all of the lawyer “tricks”: rufusing to admit ANY wrongdoing, disaagreeing without outright denyng, shifting focus/blame to the opponant while evading a question, showing zero emotion except feigned indignation at the accusations. If the Church wanted to fight its case, they should have brought in actual witnesses to the day-to-day ongoings of the church and not simply a talking piece. She called everyone liars. She looked into the camera and said a witness of child mistreatment/abuse was lying for personal gain. It was nauseating.
(And those pre-taped clips of the scrubbed-clean, wide-eyed scientologists were SO creepy–very “hostagey”!).
It made for a good 40 minute commercial for Aftermath 🙂
While it might not have been well-done it carried forward the exposure.
I guess Dave is going to have to take Muffin’s place now as he always has to handle everything himself due to the screw ups of his minions. Muffins performance was really poor. Had me shouting “LIAR!” as I watched her machine-gun blinking face speak bold-faced lies about the Jo’burg and how some questions would be omitted and how not many ever are given it. Yeah right. Altering a sec-check form, lol. Maybe what she said is true in a way, most scilons never get to Grade 2. Because the Jo-burg is done as part of Grade 2.
It’s pretty hard to keep one’s composure when the answers you must give are against your own beliefs — blink on Muffins. Hope you have a good stock of Ambian for those sleepless nights.
One important lie: EVERYONE who goes up the Bridge in auditing gets a Jo’Burg Sec Check. EVERYONE. It is on Grade II. So unless a CS specifically intervenes, the young kids get it too. When I received the Jo’Burg I didn’t even know what some of those words meant because it was so obviously not in my wheelhouse. We had to clear what “sodomy” meant among other things.
Gus Cox says
Yep. I watched Muffins lie her ass off about that too. I was born in the “church” and the crap I learned way too young would make a sailor blush. That bit about “strict protocols” when dealing with minors is a load of shit.
There’s not just the bullbaiting that the kids are directly involved in, either. In the practical courseroom, I heard the other bullbaiting sessions going on (I guess in Scientologese, you could say I “cross flowed” them, lol). And it wasn’t just the bullbaiting! Some of the originations “handled” on TR-4 were pretty bawdy too. “Do birds fly?” “You’re giving me a hard-on.” Funny, but not around an 8 year old.
My overall impression of the show is perhaps better than Mr. Rinder’s, I think. Mike’s right, it wasn’t exactly hard-hitting, but I think it was still very, very bad for the “church.” Whatever editing compromises were made in order to shoehorn Muffins Yuengling (she can’t even spell her own name) in there were worth it. Not just her dissembling, but that Scientology sent a freakin’ *tax lawyer* as their spokesperson in the first place! Bad.
I got the impression Leah was joking around with Dan when she called him an asshole – I laughed.
Mr. Rinder has far more background knowledge of Serge’s story, and everything else that was shown, than I do, so he knows what’s missing. But I don’t know (much of) what was missing and neither do the general public who were watching. All that beautiful B-roll provided by Scientology looked goddamned creepy. Their spokesperson was, well, not good. Overall, a very bad impression of Scientology. Everyone speaking against the “church” came across very well. Everyone speaking for the church came across poorly. Especially Serge’s and Mike’s families – that was fucking creepy.
The very positive thing about this 20/20 episode, IMHO, and I think we all agree, is many people who saw it are going to go watch “Aftermath.” Man, they better brace themselves.
Here is Serge’s backstory
There’s nothing funny about calling someone an asshole.
sussieqt – that’s just your personal opinion, and you can’t expect everyone to conform to your rigid views. It was between Leah and the interviewer, in the context of their conversation, he may even have laughed when she said it. Lighten up. If you read the posts here and notice that a dozen people took it lightly, and thought it was funny, and you are the only person who saw it as offensive – maybe it’s just you.
Muffins Yingling = BAD CHOICE FOR A SPOKESPERSON! You would think, with all the money CoS has, they could scrape up a credible representative. The fact she isn’t a scientologist makes her answers baseless.
I hope your show on A&E is picked up for a second season.
I LOVE YOUR SHOW. You and Ms. Remini make an awesome team!
Thank you for being brave and sharing your stories with us.
Bruce Ploetz says
Lies of Monique Yingling:
1. A JoBurg sec check given to a minor would have the more inappropriate questions taken out – LIAR if you get a JoBurg you get it all and maybe a few dozen tailor made questions added. No Scientologist would take part of a technical action written by Hubbard and take parts out of it. Ridiculous.
2. You can stay connected to a Suppressive Person, you just can’t go up the Bridge. – LIAR if you stay connected and don’t handle you are considered a Potential Trouble Source. You will get all kinds of special expensive procedures to “handle” your “condition” until you give in and disconnect. There are a lot more details but Monique gives the impression that it is not a big deal. It is an expensive and harmful big deal.
3. I am told blah blah blah… LIAR you are on national TV making statements that you were coached to answer. You are not a Scientologist, never went near the Hole, haven’t spent one minute on the RPF. You don’t know, Monique, and you have been lied to by experts. I guess that is what a lawyer does, but why can’t they send someone who knows to carry their water? Oh, because everybody else who tried that failed and is on our side now. Or imprisoned on the Int Base like Heber.
4. All those who are speaking up about the abuses are liars trying to make a buck – LIAR, Monique, if you had a daughter that was held against her will or forced to abort or worked for days straight on hard manual labor you too would be raising the roof about it. You just haven’t seen it with your own eyes and are paid to say whatever Dave thinks will make an impression.
Good money but rough on the immortal soul.
“You are not a Scientologist, never went near the Hole, haven’t spent one minute on the RPF. You don’t know, Monique, and you have been lied to by experts. I guess that is what a lawyer does, but why can’t they send someone who knows to carry their water? Oh, because everybody else who tried that failed and is on our side now. Or imprisoned on the Int Base like Heber.”
Word. Free Heber.
Eileen McCarthy says
I have never posted anything on this blog or any other blog but I feel compelled to say that I believe that Mike Rinder is correct. Dan Harris is no investigative journalist and should be more properly called an entertainment interviewer.
Yes. This^^. ABC, especially does a lot of cross over between real journalists and light news “presenters.”
If Harris had balls, as soon as Yingling sat down and the cameras started rolling, he should have asked: “As the head of the ‘Church’, why isn’t David Miscaviage doing this interview–or any interview–instead of you?”
Harpoona Frittata says
Providing $cn with equal air time to rebut the very serious and well-supported allegations that have been made against the cherch, and lil davey in particular, would have been completely acceptable IF they used it to actually mount a fact-based and direct set of rebuttals to those allegations. But that was never $cn’s intent; they continued to serve up meaningless blanket denial statements and unconscionable ad hominem attacks, some taken from the kind of cookie-cutter hate sites that the cherch creates to natter about and personally attack all of those who were featured on Leah’s series in exactly the same way. To not pick up on the fact that no actual, detailed and specific rebuttals were presented and then allow the cult to go on at equal air time length is some very poor investigative journalism. Luckily, the cult is so inept and ham-handed in their vituperative black PR efforts that it had to have been transparent to anyone who was critically analyzing the show.
“I thought Serge Gil was very relateable, credible and heartbreaking. But they did not even skim the surface of his story – as powerful as it was, it was a completely watered down rendition of what I know Serge has to tell.”
So did I ! Like every one of the those featured on Leah’s series so far, he came across as authentic, emotionally congruent and believable. Your heart couldn’t help to go out to him…that is, unless you were the cult’s leader, in which case the idea of getting his family members on cam to personally attack him in vague and general ways without ever addressing the actual specific details of his allegations must have seemed like the best way to reek vengeance on him.
20/20 completely failed to make explicit, not just the details of Serge’s specific allegations against the cherch, but they never mentioned Leah’s either, at the time she became to seriously question the cult in the wake of Shelly’s disappearance, or any of the other ex-members’ very direct and detailed allegations for that matter. Indeed, just listening to the way that 20/20 told it, you’d be very hard pressed to identify any of the detailed, specific and serious allegations that anyone featured on Leah’s series had made. Without that context being provided in their report, $cn’s vague generalities and blanket denials don’t stand out as what they are, attempts to dodge, deflect, distract and dead agent their accusers.
Dan Harris’s lack of depth of knowledge about the history of $cn or its very strict playbook of counter attack and fair game made him look like a hapless and credulous onlooker who was thoroughly unprepared to delve into the subject that 20/20 was attempting to take on. And ABC comes across as if they’re still afraid of the cult’s penchant for frivolous but costly litigation. A shabby and cringe-worthy performance which, luckily, still managed to make the cherch look horrible, seemingly by accident.
I’d like to see Ms Yingling wiggle her way out of questions from Chris Mathews or Megan Kelly.
Barbara Carr says
Kelly, also my first choice.
I just watched the 20/20 episode. Parents educated in child sex abuse as well as child advocates and therapists working in law enforcement and social work all learned what a fertile ground scientology is for victimizing children. First, children aren’t considered children in scientology. The practice of scientology provides a way for abusers to broach the subject of sex with children, and even command them to think and talk about sex. And if something happens, the last place a scientologist would turn is to anyone connected with psychology or psychiatry, so abuse is likely to go unreported. Naturally, scientology parents and staff are completely ignorant of how to protect children from abusers because all of that information comes from research done by psychologists. For people trained in this area, these things just jump out.
Also, everyone learned that the Church of Scientology is really fucking smug about their tax exempt status.
I think 20/20 knocked it out of the park!
Gus Cox says
I agree. Yes, there was a *lot* that wasn’t covered, but plenty *was* covered. Dan could have gone for the throat, and he should have IMHO, but it was still good.
WHat happened to Marty? Thats what I want to know.
Marne O'Shae says
He and his wife were harassed unceasingly for four plus years. Almost as bad as being in the Hole. They made a choice to stop the madness. Good on them. They have done their share of the work. They deserve a little peace and happiness in their lives. I hope they have found it. In our hearts we can thank them for all they have done, and now, leave them alone.
L Yash says
I am sure DM and CO$ took their choice to stop as a Victory for both DM & the CO$ as in “we were able to stop them”….too sad for Marty and his wife to have had to deal with years of harassment. When all comes to a head Marty….victory will be SSWWEEETTTT! Hang in their everyone!
Matt Salsbury says
Fair and balanced is a fine concept when you’re talking about social issues or legislation, but when you’re talking about an organization that has a long list of serious allegations that go back decades.
They weren’t shy about hammering the Catholic Church on sexual abuse and covering it up. There isn’t another side, what the Church did was evil. Being fair in that situation means investigating throughly and presenting the truth.
Scientology shouldn’t be treated any differently. It may not be North Korea, but evil is evil, and we shouldn’t be reticent about calling it out.
Geraldine Pietronico says
Why can’t the lawyer stop blinking and can’t look the journalist straight in the eye.
You are so right on, Mike, as re 20/20’s utter lack of cojones.
“Dan, you’re an asshole.”
Gotta love that Leah.
But when all is said in done, IMO the overall tone of this piece was a disaster for Co$ because raw public are not going to discern the piece’s pluspoints and (to us) glaringly obvious outpoints. Never ins will merely absorb the overall message which IMO is “something definitely is very wrong here”.
Put it this way – what “church” other than the Church of Scientology has a well known personality like Leah Remini going the distance with all these shows and interviews to expose its abuses?
And what CHURCH has its ATTORNEY go on national media to defend its principles and practices? Really, its unheard of. That Co$ can’t even risk putting up SOMEBODY from their organization to defend it, that their attorney has to be trotted out for this, to me, SCREAMS, “Guilty, guilty, we’re so guilty”, even if Yingling had flawless TRs and were not blinking 100x per minute. That’s my opinio.
If I were a never in, with not too much info about Co$, and with what ilittle nfo I had being largely bad to at best questionable, the above 2 points would be going around in my mind. IMO they are each yuuge outpoints on the part of Co$.
Excellent comment, Aquamarine, Even when the Catholic Church had the disgrace of some of their priests molesting underage boys, they didn’t bring an attorney on to defend themselves. It is the antithesis of what a church is and stands for to have attorneys on retainer. Even when Miscavige in the taped event when he yelled, “The War is Over” and “we have tax exempt status now” he never once mentioned the word church or anything spiritual like “we have been recognized as a real religion.” No that was never said. It was all about tax exemptions and tax exempt status. That alone proves to me that it is not a church but is a business.
nail…. meet hammer. What I can’t figure out Cindy is why Dave, the second largest being doesn’t ask Tom, the third largest being (in the universe) to step up and pull off another mission impossible. Meet the press.
A conversation heard in Hemet:
“Please Tom, you can do mankind a huge favor here by really getting ethics in. I know you said that is what you like to do …… ruthlessly get ethics in ……………Tom.” And do it fucking NOW goddamnit!!”
Yes Coop! Where is Tom Cruise, the 3rd highest Big Bean in the world on this one? He is silent. And his silence speaks volumes.
Gus Cox says
Not only that, but a fucking TAX attorney!
I wonder why $cientology couldn’t use one of their own people for the interview? Could it be that all of their people are too…… BRAINWASHED? And that they would come across as staring zombies? Naaah.
A friend of mine just watched A video of last night’s show. She was never in scientology. This was her reaction:
“Sheesh… …and that attorney…? She was god awful…”
She also just got aetv and is watching episode 1 as we speak. She wants to be up to speed so she can watch the finale in real time. Good work Monique Yingling.
She should watch the Going Clear movie first. It lays out a lot of background info especially for Mike Rinder so when you see him in Aftermath you know what he has been through (roughly speaking)
Even as a Catholic it should not be difficult to understand what a scientologist means when saying that ‘you are taking on the beingness of a weasel’.
How many wrinkles is that neck scarf covering up? That white makeup did not cut it on the eye bags.
This woman calls herself a Catholic?
Not so much Monique. How do you live with yourself? You’ve sold your soul to the devil.
And DM is the AntiChrist that you’re warned about in the Bible.
Also MIke, this is all death by a thousand cuts. The negative PR is constant and volumeness.
And will continue. As long as the stories are good, the characters believable, and production companies make money; the cuts will continue.
I completely agree. I thought the show was a C- at best. Calling you, Leah and anyone else speaking out “enemies of the church” made a not so subtle comment on your actions. Quoting Rathbun on his stupid anti-scientology cult thing also seemed to provide some validation.
They did very little investigating at all.
To me, the biggest fail (and there where so many to choose from) was when Muffin made her comment about raising her kids in the Catholic church and Dan didn’t jump all over it asking why would Scientology send a non-Scientologist to represent them???
Laurie McGowan says
Mike, my heart breaks for you having to see your daughter on tape saying “I wouldn’t really call him a dad, etc.” Hopefully one day soon your children will see the reality of things and resume a relationship with you.
(And thank you for everything you do. Never lose hope.)
Gus Cox says
There’s one thing 20/20 should NOT have left out – The reason Mike’s daughter “didn’t see much of her Dad” or whatever is SCIENTOLOGY. No parents see much of their kids in that goddamned cult.
That Scientology would go make videos of children and family members like that is appalling. Not one person watching would have thought, “gee, that Rinder must be a pretty bad guy” when viewing that footage. *Everyone* seeing it thought, “WTF kind of creepy cult would go get video of the dude’s KIDS?”
Maggie C says
I think you are totally blind if you could not tell the lawyer was lying on every question asked. Dan could have asked way more important questions than he did – not too swift I’d conclude! I do have to say that some of the clips they showed of Scientology’s events looked liked some kind of circus act instead of a church! The people who believe this stuff have to be brain washed as to me it’s just unbelievable that anyone could go for this crap. Yeah there might be a few things that are good for one, but on a WHOLE, NO WAY! Whoa be to all these people when the Lord Almighty (the one and only TRUE God) appears at the end of time! Plus no one into this cult has truly proved how they make the planet better! Where, How?
I watched the program and I feel Scientology was damaged by it’s representative attorney Yingling. The recent post you made about the human trafficking aspect of Scientology prompted me to contact the people in charge of investigating it and I was surprised at how much interest they had in what I had to tell them. After filling out a questionnaire on line, I was contacted by phone and asked questions for an hour. They are very much interested in what people have to say about minors and adults being used as slaves by Scientology. Here is their website. If you know anything about Scientology’s use of children, foreign nationals, or others being used please report it and something will be done about it. https://humantraffickinghotline.org/
You can also email them at email@example.com
Roger Y says
Mike, I agree with your view point on 20/20, but it still is a powerful show. Scientology’s attempt to show themselves as positive fails miserably. Anyone with half a brain can see the creepiness they ooze. And having “Blinky” as a voice for theCo$ is the icing on the cake. 100% unbelievable & a sell-out. The best part of this show is Leah. She is believable & credible. She is a force to be reckoned with, & that is an understatement.
I still want to know what happened to David Miscavige’s wife or did I miss that she’s been seen and is alive and healthy
Nope ….. still waiting on LAPD to provide the details asked for by Leah.
Buber Zionist (@buberzionist) says
The Church of Scientology looked horrible. Yingling looked horrible and sounded horrible. Her eye makeup looked horrible. She told people she’s Catholic bcoz she’s embarrassed that anyone might think she’s a Scion herself.
No need to worry that this broadcast didn’t make Scientology look bad enuff.
Wognited and Out! says
My friends asked why a “Catholic” Attorney getting paid by Scientology is speaking on their behalf – how would she know what happened to these people?
Wow – and they did not even do the Bridge…or get trained…and they have their perceptics spot on
If you check out the Facebook feeds for 20/20 it’s not as disheartening as one might think – I think the Church fell on their sword by using Yingling as a spokesperson; she has no credibility in the eyes of the viewers.
Kathy H. says
It’s amazing isn’t it? Scientology’s public image is already a complete joke, and the decision to put that woman on camera only made things much worse.
Yes, 100% consensus: the lawyer is lying. Over a thousand responses. I’d call this not good news for the most powerful and ethical beings in the known universe.
Well, it was the best the cult could muster up; an attorney; a non Scientologist; and an avowed Catholic; a person who has never even done a course in the subject. Those are the qualifications for the person representing the cult on national TV.
Imagine how bad it would be if Dave showed up!
Are you there good buddy? Whanna give it a shot? We are patiently waiting………..give Leah a call and schedule an interview.
Rebecca Howell says
I’m a pretty objective person and I can definitively say that Monique Yingling came off as mean-spirited and a total liar. The eyes were disturbing- the rolling back in her head, shifty-eyes, blinking like crazy. Her face was red and her eyes were bloodshot. This woman is in poor health. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist ( or even a Scientologist) to see through her.
Mike: Your comments on this program are spot on. It was choppy and cobbled together quickly in a reactive manner so ABC could say. “Oh yes, our investigative journalism of scientology is on- going and breaks new critical ground constantly” [image an LRH voice over saying that] but it is clearly watered down gutless reporting. I sent an e-mail to ABC, though they only want a tweet, commenting on their heavy use of footage supplied by the church and regurgitated comment from a liar who seems to ignore anything about COS unless it comes directly from them.
As you point out fortunately much of this “for the first time” reaction from the church backfires. COS no doubt provided ABC with talking heads from their professional autofluff machine that are still in the church, or are actors who have been paid for their service. And street-walking lawyer Deadeye Dingaling (DeDi) is not exactly a great humanoid specimen to pick to speak on behalf of a church of millions of enlightened thetans. We all know the Pope of S would screw it up pontificately but can’t they find just one of their clears to put on the hot seat? Or are they scared whoever it is will blow just as the program is going to air.
The emotional pain in Serge Gil was disturbingly palpable. He didn’t have to lie! Unfortunately this program did him an injustice as the pain apparent in his story deserves to be exposed fully. By now no doubt the ad hominem “Who is Serge Gil” website will be up quoting the heavily coached family saying they know every inch of him is a lie. And next time he appears the church can say “proven liar Serge Gil again spouted his hatred of our sacred church…..”
I was tired and missed the sotto voce Dan you’re an asshole comment from Leah. L. has more balls than ABC that’s for sure. It was a good way to end.
I have so enjoyed the comments here today. But remember that ABC and A & E are businesses and they are in it for the money. They make good money with their businesses and have to keep an eye out for legal problems.
The $cienoes know that. By parading Blinky Mcblinkypants in late in the game, they caused a minor fender bender with the show. Other parts were cut or glued back in poorly. The Rathbun situation needed a better set up and conclusion. Serge’s story got some good detail. That is a very nice win.
By giving Blinky so much time, ABC hedged its bets and retained the ‘fair and balanced’ meme they need. They did show Blinky as a totally unreliable commenter and let her discredit herself perfectly.
But that cut out time that could have been spent with other ‘Aftermath’ stories. Claire Headley’s tales of coerced abortions needs the widest possible distribution. The rapes of the youngsters by the older ones is a well known (to us) occurrence. The general public needs to see that part of the clambake too.
Blinky is going to get a private ‘atta-girl’ from Mr. 4foot 13. She kept more damaging info off the air. DM will count that as his private win.
ITA – the Rathbun story left out too many details, but it still managed to imply that someone who had been harassed by church, filed a lawsuit and then suddenly backed off was doing it under pressure. Also, they set up the story to make it look like he is still essentially a believer and just wants to open his own profitable franchise, that his beef with CoS is less about dogma and more about management practices. I mean how can a church think it can sue for “copyright infringement” when it’s “scriptures” are made public? You are either a business or not.
Xenu needs a Lawyer.
Maybe she is interested.
Maybe she is Xenu, escaped from mount Blinky
” ……….. remember that ABC and A & E are businesses and they are in it for the money. They make good money with their businesses and have to keep an eye out for legal problems.”
So they are like the cherch then if I understand you correctly?
I agree it was not perfect, but I also think that CoS has a reputation for aggressively and viciously whining and litigating if it does not feel it receives ‘fair and balanced” coverage. I’m sure that stories abound of what a nuisance they can be tying up legal teams so media companies tread softly. Remember, the general public still views this as a “religion” and “religious freedom” is a very sensitive subject along with other First Amendment issues.
Using the word “alleged” is common in broadcasting, even if video proof is available, simply as a legal CYA term. It’s “alleged” unless it is proven in a court of law and I think the legal team at ABC probably pored over this to make sure they were not opening themselves to frivolous and unnecessary civil litigation.
I also think it is why the CoS point of view seemed relatively unchallenged by people who know more inside information. However, we have to remember that the general public doesn’t necessarily know all this and may react negatively at this point to any coverage that is perceived as biased. The last thing you want to do is turn off people and make them think a “church” is being openly challenged or harassed. That being said, I agree with those who see that the editing and some scene selection, particularly those designed to showcase CoS point of view, was pretty masterful and subtle.
NOTHING can counter the twitchy and mendacious performance of Ylingling. She gave herself away by her nervous body language and defensive posture even more especially because the interview was not heavy-handed at all. To be that flustered by simple questions that are not even very probing gives her away. He didn’t have to call her a paid hack, she performed like a badly trained seal. And, like everything else the church writes about its detractors, the verbiage sounds so amateurish and inflated.. A real church would know how to frame arguments without sounding like a vindictive, petty high school girl. Spiritual organizations don’t launch ad hominem attacks on their “enemies” like the rhetoric from a third rate nuclear power.
All that cheesy backdrop footage of CoS events was perfect. It looked like dated, Soviet bloc footage combined with Amway convention crowd scenes. And the spooky the clips of people chanting to the large portrait of LRH were very Mao-esque. As an introduction to mainstream America, it worked fine. Light on the details, heavy on the visuals. It will make interested people positively disposed to do their own due diligence, dive into the convoluted morass of details, and draw the right conclusions.
As far as IRS tax-exempt status goes, is anyone going after them for their donations and assistance to Pam Bondi? I know that Trump is in massive trouble for the $25K donation his “foundation” gave her campaign. IRS Revenue Ruling 2007-41 prohibits religious organizations from partisan endorsement of any kind for any public office campaigns, including using church property and resources to assist them. While it rarely reverses tax exempt status initially, it can result in steep fines, both organizational and individual. If CoS is violating those regulations, either with local candidates like Bondi or at a national level, people should be calling the IRS to complain. Against the church and DM himself.
” ………………. CoS has a reputation for aggressively and viciously whining and litigating…………….”
Enough said! Well, they do natter a lot too!
Mat Pesch says
The A&E series which is very clear and easy to follow. The 20/20 show was the opposite.
Once again Leah was very professional, straight forward and believable. Monique Yingling was the opposite. She distance herself from Scientology by making it clear many times that she was not a Scientologist and was just repeating what she had been told. Not only couldn’t she look at the interviewer, her eyes kept blinking and her eye balls literally ROLLED UP IN HER HEAD!!! WTF! I have never seen anyone do that before unless they were being knocked unconscious. I think the audience saw good normal people speaking out against Scientology. They saw Scientology using hired creepy PIs and lawyers to cover their ass and do their dirty work, exactly what they are known for. Obvious conclusion, stay away from Scientology as it is a creepy, dangerous cult. What the A&E series to get more information.
Leslie Mosley says
I am wondering if anyone is ever going to talk about how scientologists force their employees to take Hubbard courses. I was forced to take courses when I worked for a veterinarian. I don’t see how that is legal!!
It is not and should be reported to your local Labor Board. It interferes with your religious freedom. if they want to hawk their wares as “trademarked” scripture, then they have to treat it as religious doctrine all the time and not just “self-help” stuff.
It’s not legal. Courts have found it to be a form of religious discrimination. Tony Ortega has covered a couple of lawsuits about this kind of thing.
Barbara King says
This is not a church! When do you ever hear anything about God. Women forced to have abortions, young girls raped, not allowed outside contact, beaten, families separated, children raised by others. Vile and disgusting. People like Tom Cruise, Kirstie Alley and John Travolta are endorsing this crap?
” When do you ever hear anything about God.”
They don’t like to confuse the issue Barbara. They are to busy dealing with more important matters.
“Women forced to have abortions, young girls raped, not allowed outside contact, beaten, families separated, children raised by others.”
And don’t forget enforced child labor, sleep deprivation, low or no pay and offloading their elderly onto public health care when they are done with them.
Rob Williamson says
I stopped reading after the first couple paragraphs because Rinder began finding fault. I’m not saying your critique was incorrect, but I think unimportant compared to ABC jumping on the bandwagon in a big way.
I appreciate everything you are doing, Rinder.
Mike Rinder’s comments were absolutely spot on. I agree totally, it’s exactly how I felt while watching the show. Shortly after it began, my optimism faded into disappointment. By the end of it I was thinking “they could have done so much better”. It was choppy and disjointed, it didn’t follow a subject through and really talk in any depth about it, rather kept skipping from one point to another without really exploring it, so it was confusing, even to someone like me who has been reading about Scientology for years.
The interviewer seemed a bit condescending to Leah and it appeared to me that she was barely holding in her annoyance at his attitude. I did catch that comment she made to him, so I think my view of that was correct, although she said it in a joking way. On the other hand, he seemed very accepting of Yingling, the church lawyer, and more respectful towards her. It was a bit disappointing to watch the difference in how Leah was treated than the church lawyer. I was perplexed by the clips from older interviews of Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun – those interviews have been done and were aired already, perhaps years ago – why not get all new material, and talk to those people more now?
It was supposed to be about how Leah is fighting the church, but didn’t talk all that much about her series. The most surprising thing to me was when Yingling said that ‘maybe’ the ‘Sec check’ questions were appropriate for a child, I thought she came off very badly in her answers in that portion of the interview. As others noted, her constant eye-blinking and failure to hold a gaze was disconcerting. She probably wasn’t the best choice to be interviewed, especially since she is not a Scientologist and said she raised her children as Catholic. Why not interview someone who actually is a Scientologist?
There was entirely too much footage of I.A.S. promo videos and “We Stand Tall” and so forth, it seemed kind of like a CofS advertisement. Too many topics presented in such a short time, not held together cohesively, touching briefly on important points but never following up on it, leaving more questions than answers in our minds. All told, it could have been much better.
However, I was glad to see 20/20 addressing this, at least it is a subject people are now openly talking about, no longer intimidated and afraid. (Remember how at the end of the South Park episode “Trapped in the Closet” about Scientology all the credits at the end read ‘John Smith’ for fear of being sued).
Credit for this new era of free speech about the Church goes to many brave and caring people who made it their work to bring forth information and tell the world what is going on. The list is too long to name everyone and some people worked and still work behind the scenes, preferring not to be known for what they do.
The group Anonymous brought a lot of attention to it. Former high level executives of the church started talking openly, including Marty Rathbun, Mike Rinder, Jefferson Hawkins, Tom DeVocht. “The Truth Rundown” was published by the Tampa Bay Times and writers Joe Childs and Thomas C. Tobin – opening our eyes to what was going on behind the scenes. Tony Ortega is a trail-blazing journalist who writes a daily blog discussing the CoS. Ex-members who published books brought more attention such as Amy Scobee “Abuse at the Top” and Marc Headley “Blown for Good” and Miscavige family members who came forth with their books including the current leader’s niece Jenna Miscavige-Hill who wrote “Beyond Belief” and his father Ron Miscavige Sr. who wrote “Ruthless”.
Personal stories of tragedies such as the deaths of Lisa McPherson and Karen De La Carriere’s son Alexander Jentzsch shocked us and touched our hearts, and made us want to know more so that this does not happen again. News of members being put in “the Hole” and toxic policies such as “Disconnection” came to light and motivated people to want to try to end such harmful practices.
Every single person who spoke out, continues to speak out, makes a video, writes an article, or is an activist in any way, has my respect.
Thank you to all, and to Leah Remini, “Troublemaker” who continues to bring awareness to the issues with the Church of Scientology and expose the truth and who started her own journey with a single question: “Where’s Shelly?”
The most notable and memorable for me was the facial expressions and demeanor or the lawyer.
What I intuited from her was a veiled feeling of great discomfort. Her eyes were blinking like crazy and she did not look into the interviewers eyes much.
She looked like she was tired of lying for Scientology. She looked internally strained while being all confident and lawerly.
She was a perfect study in duplicity.
Her days of spokesperson are ending I feel. You can only lie so much until it corrupts your soul. Her sunken hiding eyes betrayed the tenseness of a liar.
She gets millions for lying and covering up abuses for the church.
She says she’s a catholic. I have some quotes from Jesus:
“Watch out for false prophets (profits). THey come to you in sheeps clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. By their fruits yes shall know them”
And here’s one for Monique:
“Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, will enter the kingdom of heaven. Many will say to me on that day, Lord, Lord did we not prophesy in your name and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?
Then I will tell them plainly, I never knew you. Away from me evil doers”
She denigrates the good name of Christ.
Her lies are plain to see. And money is what gives her such talents for lying.
A Christian? I don’t think so!
Monique may be ok as a lawyer with lying and defending her client. No legal laws broken.
But Monique, there are higher laws than legal laws. Laws that once broken are recorded in your soul as conscience, as karma.
Those are the break in moral law, laws of decency. You may be proud of protecting your client. But you have corrupted your soul in the name of profit.
These Universal Laws of decency do care about your legal education and diploma.
How can you call yourself a Catholic and lie about family abuse.
You are despicable!
Correction: do NOT care about legal education and diploma.
Dave, you’ll have to find another lawyer victim, greedy for money. Someone who is fresh and unencumbered by years of lies and moral corruption. This one looks all used up and corrupted.
Find a nice pretty one or young man who looks honest. Then as the years roll by we can watch them slowly descend into the beingness of Golum.
Cathy Leslie says
How you articulate helps me greatly. Spot on Brain,
Harpoona Frittata says
“What I intuited from her was a veiled feeling of great discomfort. Her eyes were blinking like crazy and she did not look into the interviewers eyes much.”
If you turn the sound down and focus in on Moyingalingading’s non-verbal behavior, then you’ll be certain to notice that she does not just blink often and rapidly, but does this eye-lid flutter thing that is much more distinctive and has been observed in others who, for example, have just shot up some good heroin or are experiencing brief, absence seizures.
It appears that, due to the stress of having to perform the least desired job in the cherch, Ms. Yingadingaling was experiencing momentary take-overs of her consciousness by her many unaudited BT’s, which at times seemed to almost gain the upper hand and take over for long enough to disorient her on her return from those mental lapses. What’s remarkable about her performance is that, whatever stress that she may have been under, it had nothing at all to do with Dan Harris’s line of questioning because he ws pitching her big fat softballs the whole time, then never following up on her vague, misleading and outright false statements.
“It appears that, due to the stress of having to perform the least desired job in the cherch, Ms. Yingadingaling was experiencing momentary take-overs of her consciousness by her many unaudited BT’s,”
I may have been wrong all this time about BTs. You may be right.
I’m sorry Marildi, Foolproof and Truth Teller. That is the first time I ever doubted myself on this. I’m sorry for doubting you guys?
Do you think it was a cluster in her eye lashes?
Maybe a druggie LSD cluster dramatizing 60s strobe lighting?
Or maybe just one powerful BT trying to escape through her mascara?
I may have to rethink this Harpoona. I’m freaked out. I may be red tagging!!!
James Hill says
Cupcake Lobsang Rampa — I mean Muffins Yingling — was completely unconvincing. Was 20/20 blowing sand in her face to make her blink so much, or was this not just a manifestation of cognitive dissonance? AND — she’s not even a Scientologist! WOW! In fairness, I’m sure ALL the other members of the Co$ were fully engaged with their precision prancing/flag-waving to “save the planet.” I want to see David Miscavige –“the pope” — come out of his spider-hole and defend himself and his mind-control cult. Expect a reversal of fortune soon, your popiness!
Terra Cognita says
A couple of things. One, I suspect that upon survey, 98% of people who watched the show would NOT believe Yingling. It’s almost inconceivable that Miscavige would choose her for his spokesperson. Maybe he really is trying to do away with himself and his church due to his mountains of crimes and misdeeds.
And two, is Yingling related to Ying Ying? They kind have similar eyes, right?
I think Dave will find new fresh uncorruted lawyers to corrupt. Her performance was abysmal.
Monique has made her mega millions or possibly billions from her time as a scientology schill. She should defect to a private island NOW while she still has a shred of dignity left (whoops! Too late). Mike Rinder had the grace to bolt and run when put in an untenable situation like that with Sweeney and BBC – and he was penniless.
The show was a train wreck, but that was not really a bad thing, IMHO. Any sane person could not have believed the POW-type videos or Monique and it had to make people wonder why so many former high ranking execs were speaking against things. It will be interesting to see the ratings on the next show.
Apparently Monique was dispatched in such a hurry she didn’t even have time to gather a basket of muffins from the “workers paradise”.
It was on too short of a notice Valerie. All they had to offer was beans and rice.
But but but it’s a “workers paradise” at Gold Base. Monique lied so herself in 20/20 when she brought the muffin basket. *blink blink blink*. There just HAVE to be slave-made npmuffins all day every day in a workers paradise. Right? *blink blink*
Funny, when things get uncomfortable with regards to scripture, they expect “its no longer part of our scripture” to make it all go away.
DM did it in the Ted Koppel interview. In response to the LRH lecture talking about the Van Allen Belts, DM said it was no longer part of Scn scripture. Not so, it was on the SHSBC.
Regarding the Joburg Sec Check that Muffins dismisses, it has always done after attesting to Grade II – everyone did it. Does anyone know if it is still done in the church?
Dan Harris in my opinion is an a-hole. Certainly if i was looking for a hard edged ask the tough questions interview Dan Harris…………………………..would not be in my top 100
Robert Almblad says
Yingling is obviously a poor spokesperson for Scientology. This was well known by DM before he put her on the 20/20 show. This had to be a “last resort” decision for him. I am sure he was painted into a corner. So, whatever forces compelled him to use her will likely be repeated over and over into the future…… PR? what a joke…
i agree with those who thought that 20/20’s approach was effective in its own way. true, they gave the scios a lot of air time, but i felt like it was more a matter of giving them enough rope to hang themselves. everything they did and said made them look more & more crazy – from that giant-ass box of tapes & binders to putting Blinky McBlinkerson out there to speak on their behalf. i think dan could have been more hard-hitting, but he did push back on several things she said. it all just helped to make her replies sound more feeble, imo. had he been more of a pit bull, i think she would have been more defensive and clammed up.
i don’t know why they wasted all that time on the Marty stuff since they didn’t have any conclusive info aside from Tony O scoffing at how “bizarre” the whole thing was. sure, it’s puzzling, but really only to those of us who have been paying close attention all this time. the intended audience has no clue, and 20/20 could have devoted much more time to Serge’s story, like Mike pointed out. there was so much left out, but hopefully what they did leave in was enough to send ripples of “wtf’s” out into the world.
it would for sure be great if more news agencies did their own investigations and dug a lot deeper. i don’t think that was the goal of this show though. i think they just wanted to cover the fact that there is a disturbance in the force, and they did a fair job of helping viewers get a foot into the “why” of that. i can totally, totally understand the frustration of those who are waiting for the house of cards to fall (i mean, we all want that, but those who were in have a deeper need for this, i think) but like Mike has said before, it’s ALL of these efforts coming together that will ultimately prevail. 20/20 pulled out a few more Jinga pieces from the stack for sure.
I have been watching Aftermath and sharing it with my children who are 25, 21, 20 and 14. I share it with them because these are ages (along with others, really) when people look to feel included and accepted. To connect when you may feel you haven’t. I don’t want my children or anyone to fall prey to the tactics of belonging by Scientology (or any other cult to be honest). Not only do I applaud those who have been betrayed by this organization to come together and heal and accept and warn but I am thankful this is being openly shared to the tactics can be dissected for avoidance by others.
Love it. Great commentary. To me, the 20/20 show was disjointed and near impossible to follow. Whoever edited it needs to be fired. “Muffins” was disheveled and uncomfortable. How many times she said “..it could have happened, I don’t know, but..” would have made us all blackout drunk if it was a drinking game. Geez, at least in the 80s/90s when you were interviewed I was at least confused. At best (for SC), a person might want to investigate more on their own because Muffins was awful. I will be surprised if Muffins isn’t fired. Miscavige can’t be happy today, which might be the best outcome of the 20/20 show
Yes. I agree with you Mike; it was a patchwork piece and somewhat disjointed. But all in all, the church looked bad. No one will watch it and think about signing up.
Agreed, horrible editing and unfortunately, Dan Harris does not have the depth for this type of interviewing. They really could and should do a series of interviews to properly cover this.
Thank you for saying exactly what I was thinking.
It was awful. Sure any press is good press, but the show was horrible.
I hope Serge gets to actually tell his story at a place that will do it better than Dan Harris’ mess of a “interview”.
Because that 20/20 was safe pointed shlock.
I hope that Serge benefits somehow by his story being, at the very least, introduced. Perhaps last night’s show will be a spring board from which his story can be more widely known. The Marty stuff was definitely a disappointment.
We have to acknowledge Dan for at least leaving Leah’s “asshole” comment in the piece. It gives us all a mantra to share back to him.
Chee Chalker says
Does Muffins blink that much in real life? Or is this a result of being under pressure?
Elizabeth Hunter-Stefan says
Unfortunately I never saw this program but by the comments made here it leaves one to wonder how could 20/20 reporter be such a push over and I mean it in the nicest possible way. To interview someone who is NOT even a scientologist is even more absurde . I think it was quite comical that the scientologists had hustled to place extras in their empty buildings. After the A&E program no-one with any brains is buying the Scientologists’ BS anymore.
Steve Friedl says
Isn’t this entirely explainable by having very bright TV lights in your face and not being used to it?
Mike Rinder says
Yes. But she IS used to it. See earlier 20/20 shows she was on and AC360 and others.
She has been doing this for years. Her blinking has gotten worse as has her lack of eye contact.
Roger Y says
We see non-professionals interviewed on TV everyday & non of them creates a wind storm by blinking as she does. We refer to her as “Blinky” in our household.
I’m sure that is the reason Steve. It affected the other the same way!
George Layton says
Was she the only one with bright lights in her face or they only one not use to it? Or a troll that is use to lurking in the dark shadows beneath a bridge?
For Steve not Mike
The blinking and eyes darting is the result of having to think so quickly to come up with lies.
Watching the show from the perspective of a ‘never-in’ instead of as a former member, I saw a dirty organization scrambling desperately to prevaricate, make excuses for and deny information I had no doubt whatsoever is true. To say Muffins Blinkling wasn’t credible is putting it charitably. She made absurd denials that she couldn’t possibly know about.
Dan Harris’s pussy-footed journalism let her off scott-free except for his facial expressions which showed he wasn’t buying ANYTHING she was selling. I presume he was instructed to be a pussy and that understandably pissed Leah off. (“You asshole!”) He deserved that.
Blinkling did deliver an enormous gaffe for those who caught it when she compared the church of scientology to the Catholic church in trusting it to the unsupervised care of children!!! Whoops! Another missed opportunity for Dan to act like a journalist.
It bothered me a bit that the show’s ending leaves the impression the church is a growing and expanding enterprise but overall, it delivered a bloody nose to both it and David Miscavige. I found it a very satisfying experience.
As another “never in” I agree. This story will go a long way, Mike towards your goal of stopping new people from joining and becoming victimized, and it delivered a huge blow to the foundation of the “church”.
Kelly, I am a former scientologist and Sea Org member. I chose to view the show as a never-in, however. From that perspective I was delighted by it. As a former member and long-time critic I am aware of it’s many deficits, particularly Dan Harris’s namby-pamby line of questioning to Muffins. Still, I think it delivered a nasty beating to the church. And of course, Leah gave Dan a little ‘ethics handling’ as they say. I don’t think he’s a fool he just knows on what side his toast is buttered.
Joe blow says
Scientology is nothing but a cult and there is no way in hell the government should allow them to be tax exempt it is nowhere near a church and the asshole that runs it should be taking out my personal fucking thoughts I cannot believe our government has let this cult grow to this size it’s ridiculous IRS do your fucking job and stop the tax exempt on that fucking cult
Penny LeBlanc says
Joe blow says it all, the IRS should be doing its job to quash the COS Cult! We all believe Leah Remini and the ousted elders . Since when does God need money for acceptance in a church, that is because it is a cult people. Keep going on Leah, we fully support you and wish you the best in squishing that beast!
L Yash says
For Ylngling to say “I raised MY KIDS CATHOLIC””…sorry but WTF!!!!!!
She is the “mouth piece lawyer” for CO$ but HER kids were not raised in the CO$ cult religion.
First off, the constant blinking and eye flutters as well as her total inability to maintain EYE CONTACT, she constantly looked away or around indicates she is not telling the truth.
She denied quite a bit, or made small remarks about “well maybe this might be used or that might have been asked”….of course the knows damn well those questions were asked of innocent children and adults as well. What RIGHT does a “church” have to ask such highly personal questions, especially those of a sexual nature of ANYONE since they aren’t Licensed Professional Therapist or Psychiatrist that might need this information for a medical or psychiatric reason
In addition Yingling seemed incapable of sitting still, she was constantly “making re-adjustments” in her seating position, not being able to sit comfortably and maintain her composure seems to indicate she was aware she KNEW she wasn’t coming across as anywhere near honest.
I have a feeling DM might be sending her to “the hole” or for “re-training”….Yingling was a TOTAL embarrassment to CO$, and DM must be losing his mind.
Being produced on the heels of Remini’s A&E series, ABC’s 20/20 special last night was an incredibly unsuccessful and timely (hot topic viewership-grabbing) attempt at primetime Friday night expose’ journalism. It was in a word: Amateur. The production quality was less than noteworthy and Dan Harris remains nothing more than a morning Pop Culture Beat Mouthpiece. I’m not even a former Scientologist. I’m a media watcher; Harris, ABC and 20/20 continue to be a subpar little brother production in the News Magazine/Investigative Journalism genre. The only thing missing was the producer guy from TMZ laughing and sipping from a mug as he leans over an office cubicle surrounded by unremarkable twenty-something minions with pads of paper and pens in hand.
” DM must be losing his mind”
He lost it a long time ago ………… if He ever really had control if IT in the first place.
Time to git after those pesky BeeTees good buddy. And BTW, why not offer Ding-a-ling a free TR’s course before her next interview.
L Yash says
The old statement “Of all the things I’ve ever lost, I miss my MIND the most”…….so true.
Thing is DM mind has been lost a long time ago when it comes to being normal…….DM apparently thinks he is normal & will NEVER see that however. In the Realm of King DM, everyone ELSE but him is nuts.
M. Yingling made a fool of herself, and as DM’s CO$ Lawyer, she made a complete FOOL out of CO$ and DM. That’s why I can see DM apparently ORDERING people about in a frantic manner trying to do “damage control”….as in WTF did SHE DO???
Has M. Yingling ever SEEN any of those questions that were displayed to her? She sure as Hell came across that these documents were totally foreign to her. I was also surprised that SHE was the only “lawyer” available, in some instances a TEAM of Lawyers who have been present for this interview, where the lawyers would have had their private little conferences before answering any of these tough questions Dan asked.
Love your mention Newcomer….give Dingaling a FREE CO$ course, she NEEDS it. Oh, BTW WHY not have a group or one CO$ Lawyer who knows their sh** instead of a buffoon.
LEAH, you were top notch as usual, very cool, calm, collected, well spoken/articulate, didn’t hold back or shy away……you put Dan in his place.
” Oh, BTW WHY not have a group or one CO$ Lawyer who knows their sh** instead of a buffoon. ”
I think Dave is finding it pretty difficult to get one of those type of lawyers to work for him!
Ms. B. Haven says
I agree Newcomer, Ms. Yingling desperately needs that TRs course. NOW!!!! Perhaps she could twin up with Jenny Linson and do the GAT II Pro TRs Course with a couple hundred extra hours of ‘blinkless TRs’ thrown in as a special bonus. She shouldn’t get it for free though, that would be ‘out exchange’ and a clear violation of sacred policy. She will have the opportunity to get a whole new take on billable hours, scientology style.
ABC 7 Eyewitness News Los Angeles producer named Lisa Bartley came and interviewed Karry and I on camera for several hours after an earlier 5-6 hour pre-interview once. It was ostensibly for an investigative series they were doing on the C of S. Unfortunately, the only segment that actually aired was the one on Stefan and Tanja Castle’s escape from the Cult.
Lisa called us many times after the interview to give us updates on the status of the segment. She said that it was “held up in legal”, etc, etc. and in the meanwhile, the FBI suspended it’s investigation and the church bought millions of dollars worth of advertising on the ABC News website, according to Marty Rathbun. Subsequently, the investigative series “died on the vine.”
I for one am glad that ABC is at least confronting this subject again, although I do agree with Mike that Leah Remini has more testicular fortitude than any of these mainstream media “investigative reporters.”
The Church of Scientology is becoming a very hot topic to and for the media. The reason why is because L. Ron Hubbard’s works are available on the internet from the Dianetics book up to and through OT VIII. A person no longer has to wait years, sell their house or forfeit their children’s college education waiting for a “church person” to approve their understanding of what they got involved in Scientology for in the first place. The Church of Scientology only wants the public to accept and make known what can be considered good about the church, with no mention of their crimes and amends in this society or how they rose up from the ashes this society was formed out of like everybody else to become the “salvagers of planet Earth” they claim to be or rather profess to be. 20/20 is a good way to clear up a lot of misunderstandings about the Church of Scientology, its beliefs and its actual practices. 🙂
Dead men tell no tales ( Bill Straass) says
That’s right, Scooter. I was interviewed by her too.
All in all it was an indictment on $cientology as I saw it even with the poor composition and lack of integrity in calling a spade a spade. Lack of professionalism. Not good journalism ABC.
Blinkling was absolutely horrible. Typical scumbag lawyer, evasive and just plain not believable.
How awesome is Leah Remini? “Dan Harris, you’re an asshole.” Priceless.
Kathy H. says
Leah has zero tolerance for bullshit. That’s why people trust her.
Dave Galanter says
My wife and I have come to adore her because of it. So glad to see her fighting for what is right.
Joanna Kelley says
I noticed the rapid eye blinking of Muffins and have never even been inside a Scientology building. I was, however, a legal assistant and knew she was lying out her ass. I don’t get why it’s O.K. for her to make a pile of money off of Scientology, but people who have been hurt and damaged by Scientology are “professional anti-Scientologists” and somehow not to be trusted. She most certainly has a financial stake in the success or failure of Scientology. Who does she think she is fooling.There are all sorts of Scientologists and people associated with this cult benefiting financially from it. I thought the piece was rather shallow and lazy. It’s nowhere near the quality of the show on A&E.
Ann B Watson says
Thank you Mike.Your piece and the comment about 20/20 investigating Scientology for years helped me remember sharply that in 1974-1975 @ some point the late Peter Jennings came to ASHO to film a segment on The Sea Org.It was really make it go right for days before.I recall muster all in the SO uniforms & everyone Big Smiles.Anyway the crew hung around for the day and messed about with microphones,but I never saw the finished piece.I think legal clued ABC in and they backed off the project.In 74 things were much harder to get out,as in the truth about the cult with no Internet.You are a master at sorting through what is shown on the media stage about Scientology and showing what is true and what could use work.As in your comment regarding ABC,brilliant.Love Leah & Serge.?
Tasha Gunderson says
Mike- I totally agree. I was disappointed in ABC. I do hope at the very least, it reached people not yet watching the A&E show, and cast more doubt on this organization. This hopefully will compel people to look into it deeper and take action. A good start would be with the IRS.
I could tell as soon as Yingling started talking that she was spewing a lot of bs!! She could not look Dan in the eyes when she was talking! And her demonic blinking, to the point that you could only see the whites of her eyes, is a CLEAR indication that she was lying…Her body language said it all. I don’t know anything about Scientology other than what I have learned from this blog and the A&E program, however I think it is safe to say that we all know a great deal more than this demon spawn, Yingling. If that is the best that Miscavige had to represent the CoS for this program, I would say that he failed miserably…I HOPE he HATED the show!!! It means someone, other than him, is winning!!!
Mike, I agree. I thought it seemed disjointed and shallow. They could have done a whole segment on what tax-exempt status is, interview FBI and IRS folks but no. The way they did it made it seem like a schoolyard fight, and this is much more than that. The best thing it did was make people aware of your A&E show, and the bigger audience you get there, the better in the long run.
Michael Crosby says
So Leah called Dan Harris an asshole. I LOVE THIS WOMAN! And at The Bunker it’s bemoaned that the LA Times doesn’t get involved, especially since Scientology is right in their backyard. But this is MSM, main stream media–NO BALLS.
I too love Leah’s directness. However, had I been prompting Leah this is what I would have her say instead:
“Dan, you are a broke-dick politically-correct bobble-head.”
Also, I wonder if botox would have helped Monique’s eyelids and eyeballs? Obviously her TR-L is unflat.
In my opinion 20/20 did a great job. There was a subtle “editorial” commentary throughout. For example, weird music played behind many segments when Scientology was portrayed.
The body shots of Yingling and Remini (the primary antagonists for the peice) show YL as frumpy, terribly dressed etc, eyes out of control; while Remini looks professional and authentic. The two were clearly counters to each other and Remini won.
The last shot where Yinglings eyes actually rolled up until only white showed was like something from the exorcist. That alone will creep out most viewers.
Many Interesting editorial choices were made in this regard.
Conversely, antiscientologists were shown respectfully.
The choice to keep Leah calling the interviewer “an asshole” was also interesting. It calls out everyone watching to take a stand.
I think 20/20 did a surprisingly interesting and artful editorial job. This will interest many mainstream audiences in learning more through Remini’s show.
Marcie Paddock says
I so agree with you. Thank you for putting it into words!
While I have a litany of complaints about how the show mishandled a Golden opportunity to fully expose the abuses of the Cult, the bottom line is Liar Blinkblink did them no favors and obliterated any remaining remnants of credibility.
And, my favorite line of the night: Well, there are consequences to every choice we make in… (stutter/shiver/headshake/blinkblink) in life. — Liar Blinkblink
Dan asks a question (can’t remember the question) Monique Blinkalink shakes her head no blinks violently and answers yes. I laughed out loud.
L Yash says
Did seem to notice that she shook her head both YES and NO at the same time..
My thoughts exactly!
I was also kinda confused about the Marty rathbun part…. were they implying that he was paid off and that’s why he doesn’t talk publically abput Scientology anymore? Or is he just tired of it? That story didn’t really conclude anywhere
Thanks Mike for all you do.
Completely out of place segment of the show.
I have wondered the same thing! I stared watching the A&E program and with extra time off work I have spent many hours trying to understand, well…. all of it. The most intriguing to me in general is Where is Shelly? But then 20/20 briefly mentions Rathbun and I find myself perplexed. So what happened to Marty?
SN: although this subject has piqued my curiosity out of extra time on my hands, I genuinely feel for those in and out of the CoS. I cannot imagine the fear and pain of discovering the flaws in a lifetime of boundless faith.
Yes, I was confused by this too. I actually started growing concerned that they are holding his family members hostage and threatening them if he continued to speak out. There is more to that story and I want to know what it is.
Follow the money.
When Ms. Yingling stated that she’s Catholic there was an opportunity for the interviewer to try to draw parallels between the victims of her church and those who have been victimized by Scientology. Sadly, she was unchallenged and allowed to continue to continue her disparagement of people like Mr. Gil.
All that blinking made my eyes hurt and all the “tells” that showed truth was not her aim just reinforced the slime that is Scion.
Hopefully Ms. Remini’s second season will continue on with what is really happening. Since ABC ownes A&E, maybe they were hoping most of the information about CEO and the cult would come from the other show, you alls.
Concentration on revoking IRS saying this mess is a religion will be overturned. Think of all the monies going towards the National debt.
Wognited and Out! says
Blinky Yingling said “THE PSYCH’S” are just a catch phrase….Scientologists don’t mean they hate Psychiatry as a generality.
FLUNK! FLUNK! FLUNK! Monique Yingling!
Oh – David Miscavige may want to chart the stats of LIES told by Scientology Spokesholes and # of blinks by Scientology’s LYING LAWYER – Monique “Blinky” Yingling.
David MIscavige is just going to have to fire her and do these interviews himself…
Hee Hee Hee
The reason why they blink so much is because they are a bunch of Speed Freaks, in and out of reality, not your average heroines, my turn to shout, cks will bounce!
and why isn’t he doing these interviews himself? He seems like the most obvious and reasonable person as the leader of the “church” to share what they are all about to the public.
He is a fucking coward and he hates to appear stupid and be ridiculed. There’s not much He can do about the stupid part.
I agree.The show on 20/20 was pieced together and choppy. It was definitely not as good as your A&E show..but its getting the word out there…baby steps.
Zenster Zenly says
Leah was great as usual. 20/20 did the typical “lamestream media” journalism. You cannot expect lamestream media to actually get to the real essence of a story anymore. Remember Matt Lauer? At a “foreign policy” interview all the schmuck could ask Hillary about was Emails. Still, it is worthwhile that Leah got her story out to a wider audience. Do not worry too much about 20/20 spending a lot of air time giving the “Scientology side” – from doing my own little poll – I bring up Scientology as often as I can when I chat with a stranger while our dogs greet each other and the results are 100% of the time people agree with me “what a bunch of stupid assholes Scientologists are” So Leah had the absolutely best optics when talking to a Scientologist last night.
xenu's son says
Same words here in Europe.Especially from young people.Scientology is done.Stick a fork in it.
I expectthat with the coming implsion my son will be flushed out.
Dan Koon says
Mike, my feeling is that they could have given Dingaling the entire hour and those viewing it still would have come away with a negative impression of Scn. So, overall, I think the overall effect of the show will be to bump up the audience for the remaining episodes of Leah’s show. Will there be a season 2? You damn betcha. At least 20/20 cut back on the amount of screen time she got compared to Ron Miscavige’s episode last April. Ron was missed about the show and will never deal with them again. It was the same guys producing and editing as on Ron’s show. I think ABC feels they have to present the church’s side of the story or risk being labeled as “unfair and unbalanced.” Thanks Faux News, for that.
Kathy H. says
As 20/20 put this show together, it’s easy to imagine a nervous ABC legal department trying to water down the result, to avoid any chance of being sued. Whether they were pressured by Scientology to give both sides, or whether they were excited to actually get a church rep willing to go on camera, ABC seemed more concerned about potentially pissing off a famously litigious organization than doing their job, which is supposed to be hard-hitting investigative journalism. It just makes me respect A&E that much more.
Mike Rinder says
They have the same legal department as A&E does (I don’t mean literally the same people, but similar type lawyers that every media company has — in fact A&E and ABC are all owned by the same parent. Disney). Yes, I know their legal department gives them problems. But they could do better. The Aftermath certainly does.
Sarita Shoemaker says
Unfortunately I personally did not get to see the show…BUT from the posts on FB from my own Never-In friends, Monique Yingling (Muffins is a funny nick name) helped prove how much of a low life she is. Each and every comment was negative for scientology,
Thank you for everything you are doing to help give us courage Mike and Leah.
There are also those before you exposing, shouting, screaming, rallying me/us to tell our story and support each other.
I’d say 3 years ago I began (secretly and in fear) reading the blog sites from Marty, Tony and you EVERY DAY.
Then, on Facebook I read the posts from Sinar. I wrote him PMs and he replied without judging me.
I met Karen DLC and Jeffrey at the Premier of Going Clear and they were also so kind to me and my husband.
I began watching Chris Shelton break down information like a puzzle.
Off the top of my head all of these people helped me feel SAFE about life, about being out of the church, about telling people I knew my own story.
Then I posted on Mike’s blog who I was and that I on the team of those pushing to expose the truth – at least what I could support from my own personal experiences – about scientology.
I’m pretty sure that’s when a Suppressive Person Declare was issued (that I have yet to see).
I have met with current Scientologists in secret (for their sake and the sake of their families and their careers) to give them hope to leave. They are ALL very capable humans and could make it easily outside of the church. They just can’t stand the idea of losing their own family members…YET.
It’s easier now TO SPEAK OUT because of all of you.
Leah and Mike have taken it to a new level for me personally. Not filled with hate or anything like that. Just filled with the urgency to make the facts and truth known.
I love it and appreciate it so much.
She got the nickname Muffins after the Ron Miscavige 20/20 episode when she was sent to shill for scientology on 20/20. She had the same repertoire of blinks though not quite as violent and claimed that Hemet was a “workers paradise” and brought along a basket of “fresh baked bread and muffins” from the bakery there (packaged in plastic with labels) to prove how well fed the workers were.
L Yash says
Sometimes you can only save YOURSELF…..the “others” aren’t ready yet or may never be ready to leave possibly the only thing they have ever known. Having to “disconnect” (HATE that word) from your blood FAMILY is unimaginable as is to hear THEM speak out against those who’ve had the courage to leave is heartbreaking.
You are all to be commended for your bravery and courage to “blow”, and begin life anew, and to speak out about the horrors inflicted upon yourselves or others. Sadly, the guilt some of you feel about “getting your children or family involved” in the first place is understandable. As Leah said, “Who wouldn’t want to save or improve mankind and the Planet”.
In time CO$ and those who have caused others great physical and emotional pain, separated you from your family and friends and taken all your finances forcing you to take ANY job you can find to pay your bills, may JUSTICE come to those in CO$ who have harmed others.
For yourselves, you are now free to speak out and tell ALL of US the TRUTH that CO$ had been keeping hidden for decades under the cover of “The Church”.
You are stronger than you think….united we stand in supporting your cause!
Thoroughly enjoy the reporting on this Mike. You and Leah have made more of an impression than you will ever know. My family is engrossed every week and friends and coworkers alike. Waiting for US law to finally step in and say enough is enough. Abuses, tax games, sequestering, The Hole, deplorable harassment, etc. We all know brainwashing is legal but physical brutality is not.
ed kette says
20/20 with Leah and Dan Harris already available:
Thank you for providing the link!! I’m just hearing about this now and was really disappointed I missed it.
Yes, it seemed very disjointed and focused on ,”the church responds.” I was disappointed seeing……. Muffins? Blinking her way and never fully committing to an answer. It was distracting and fascinating only to learn she has never been subjected to Scientology. As a viewer it just seemed that this was thrown together as a result of the success of the show and public interest. I think you nailed it that the host lacked the guts to stand behind the fight. Leah’s comment summed it up nicely.
I agree the show was half-baked. Yingling obviously was lying, evading , deflecting, and a piss poor spokesperson. The lack of eye contact was blatant. I felt bad for Serge. He had way more to say. It’s like they squeezed him in. 20/20 did a rush job here. And Leah- preach. Dan is an asshole. The ball is rolling and there’s no stopping it now. Talk about Rolling Thunder….
Great review Mike. I really wish we could get the team at Frontline (PBS) to tackle this. It would be a smaller audience, but they still do a decent job of investigative journalism. I am going drop them a letter about this actually…there is so much interest right now…and it cannot hurt.
MarcabExpat (@elsie900) says
Frontline would be a great venue for some serious journalism on the tax exemption issue! They’re not afraid to dig deep and get into detail.
If you are in talks about extending the program to next season, which is a WONDERFUL idea, I would suggest you do similar work with other cults like Jehovah’s Witnesses — how they get kids in, make them work for the church, discourage education, and disconnect when they decide to leave. I would look into Mormonism, too, and Christian Science, and all of the dead children buried in Utah, and those Western states that refuse to hold religion accountable when parents withhold medical treatment from their children because of God. The nation needs to see all this, because disconnection and abuse happens in other religions besides Scientology.
Ken, I believe that its more effective to work on one at a time and here its devoted to Scn.
I do agree that other “religions” have problems ..,. Being an x JW, and I have never heard of the things that these loss souls are going through
Phyllis Henley says
The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints (Mormons) promotes love for God and families.
The members have free agency. There is no comparison to The Church of Scientology. Check out website
http://www.lds.org. Thank you.
He’s probably talking about the FLDS. The Mormons have got their issues too – mostly about hiding what they know of their “holy texts” from their parishioners, and the stuff they’ve put out about how children should talk to their friends about their gay parents… And how they treat people while they are on Missions. I would encourage you to watch documentaries on the mission network – how they make kids pay for their own missions and they are not allowed to be alone for 2 years at a time, talk to their families but for certain holidays are are completely isolated from their communities. It’s actually pretty exploitative. And the LDS church makes a lot of money off it.
Robin Soletzky says
Why did they need a lawyer to represent Scientology? Why doesn’t Miscavige speak for himself or is that against the rules? I read LRH’s Dianetics in my teens. He was a “science fiction” writer and that’s all. If they are supposed to be a religion like Christianity or Judaism to become exempt from taxes, how come I never hear them speak of any form of “G_D”? It’s just layers and layers of expanding your horizons. Most people do that with meditation and not E Meters. THEY ARE NOT A RELIGION AND SHOULD PAY TAXES!!!
ed kette says
The best for you in this year.
Leah Remini’s Season I Episode 6 Auditing already available:
Erin Susick says
Seems like FBI Financial Crimes investigates far less schemes seen on American Greed than what Scientology executes. If the human rights violations aren’t prosecution-worthy, then the financial crimes certainly should be. Scientology far bigger than Madoff.
I enjoyed the show and hope it will boost the audience for your A&E series. Yingling was horrible. The blinking, the darting eyes — and in the end, I realized that a prostitute has more integrity than she does. Yingling takes money to lie for an abusive cult. I hope David has paid her well.
Patti J. Smith says
You nit the nail on the head. The show did appear to be “thrown together”, but hopefully will induce more outrage towards the “cult” and evoke investigation by authorities. The attorney was scripted and her body language said it all … she was uncomfortable and purposely evasive. Continue the “good fight”….you, Leah and all those coming forward have my full support as well as that of many others.
Cathy Leslie says
What about what the lawyer said about tests on children. And to go on an say that she trusts the Catholic Church. Isn’t that an admission of children abuse ???
How much is she being paid I wonder. ABC should of asked her that like they asked Leah.
I’m spacing well enough I hope.
Barb Teed says
I really liked 20/20’s including the “squirrel patrol” that portrayed scientology in a very poor light and the bully tactics used by the movement. Serge Gill was the heart of the show, and I felt Dan did a good job grilling the attorney (is that her REAL name??). Getting the scientology attorney on the record was huge!
I had not heard of “squirrels” or “bulbait” before and Dan did keep asking the attorney about this.
For non-movement members, keeping up with all the terminology is daunting. 20/20 had roughly 45 to 50 minutes to put everything into a program, that is difficult.
I have been on Dan’s side of the interview chair and have also been called “names” if my interviewee does not like my response to investigating. From that perspective, I must say I felt the 20/20 program was more critical of the scientology movement than being objective. I could tell just by being a journalist myself. I do agree with your blog paragraph that if this was a North Korea investigation, would the program be so objective? I once did a story about the lack of Veterans services here in my home state. I was very much leaning on the side of the Veterans. However, my editor needed to hear the side of the State veterans affairs people. I gritted my teeth but did indeed interview the officials, including the Governor. I also highlighted a Veteran who was not receiving services. The comparison between the two entities was stark and that comparison actually helped my article because the Vet vs the cold administration let the readers naturally go to the side of the Vet. Another story I wrote involved digging up a natural spring in my hometown and, as an environmentalist, I felt strongly about this issue. I still needed to get the side of city officials to go with my story. In the end, citizens came together and saved the wildlife and I won an investigative award for that article.
I have a family member still in the movement and thus I come from the side of hearing all sorts of things growing up. Both Leah Remini’s show and the 20/20 show last night helps me understand just a part of it.
Deidra Gay says
Isn’t all that the squirrel patrol did harassment and ‘stalking’ and isn’t that illegal?
Nancy Davis says
The 20/20 episode did seem quite disjointed and thrown together. The standout good thing, in my opinion, was that the attorney representing Scientology did nothing to redeem or upgrade their status in the public eye. For all the money and effort they spend on “spin,” they chose a horrible representative who made them look like the manipulating liars they are.
DM is losing this war. Every battle is barely being fought and when the Church attempts to fight, they send in a Non-Scientologist on National TV. Wow! Not one Church Exec has defended the Church since Tommy left. Why, because they don’t exist anymore! Thanks to the almighty himself. DM is digging his own grave and rightly so.
dan harris says
Leah was out of line for calling him an asshole. His job is to report stories, not to take sides. He was just being professional.
Mike Rinder says
WHat a wonderful coincidence your name is….
“Leah was out of line for calling him an asshole.”
She did it with comedic flair – and pulled it off.
As Leah always does! Mike, I am not a Scientologist, and your story and those of other former Scientologists have gripped both my husband and I very much. We watched last night’s 20/20 episode and literally laughed at Ms. ‘Muffins’ interview. The blinking was almost embarrassing, and even a little uncomfortable to watch. We didn’t believe a word she said, and honestly, how much credibility does she have as the Church’s ‘on retainer’ mouthpiece, who isn’t even a Scientologist? On a side note, I was very surprised to hear about Mr. Rathbun
And sure enough, another OSA troll rises to the bait! Ha!
We can all imagine that everyone at OSA was literally squirming in their seats watching this piece. They could only anticipate the ass chewing that was headed toward them from shorty! Damn, that would have been fun to watch.
Bulging eye balls, popping veins, lots of cool language ………….a true Cult Pope looking for a role in Pulp Fiction episode II.
Yo dan, Tell Dave hi from all of us out here on the fringes! And don’t forget to duck!
He’s absolutely right.
Well, ok! Now that ‘sussieqt’ has made the call, we know what’s right or wrong. Whew, what a relief. We don’t have to think for ourselves anymore, we’ve been told. What would we ever do without you? Thanks for deciding that for us, sussie!
Cathy Leslie says
Way to go again Ms Remini for staying your ground on 20/20. It’s too bad that he had to say what he said at the end and happy you said what you said.
Thank you Mr Rinder for what you are doing. Allowing those to have a voice.
Marti Carlson says
If you weren’t able to view the show last night and wanted to, here’s a link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxqt5msaVVg
I don’t normally post my comments on Tony’s “Bunker” over here, but thought folks who don’t get over there much might be interested in what the group that watched 20/20 at my place last night had to say. So, for your perusal…
Posted on the ‘Bunker’:
Since ‘Aftermath’ started airing, I’ve been inviting friends and neighbors, who previously had little to no interest in $cientology, over to watch. I started doing this for two reasons. First and foremost, I wanted to see the reaction of people who don’t have all the back story information of long time critics and exes. And second, to hopefully get them interested enough to get involved in the fight. At least to the point of writing letters to Congress, etc., if nothing else.
Last night I had about a dozen people, who are a mix of Catholics, Protestants, Unitarians, Jews, Hindus, atheists, and don’t want to talk about it, over to watch the 20/20 episode. During, and shortly after, the show they were also calling other friends for reactions to things being shown or said. Overall, $cientology did not come off well. At all. And none of them, not even one of the phoned friends, came away believing anything Yingling had to say, except, “That’s what I was told.” Some of their reactions are scattered around in my comments yesterday. Today I want to get them in one place, to give an idea how “regular folk” who are new to this are reacting to last nights show.
In no particular order:
– First question asked in the group, “Why does she (Yingling) blink so much? Especially when she’s asked a question?”
– When they actually read some of the “SecCheck” questions for 6-14 year olds off the sheet for themselves, then heard Yingling’s BS response to it, I’ll just say it’s a good thing she wasn’t in the same room as them.
– When Serge explained about kids being “ancient Thetans” in young bodies, so their old enough to handle anything to Dan, my neighbors about fell out of their chairs. Several people reacted with, “Does that mean they think it’s okay for an adult to have sex with a kid?”
– The reaction to Yingling calling Serge’s story a lie was overwhelmingly, “Who’s got the tars and feathers? That b*tch needs a ride out of town on a rail.”
– My Catholic neighbors were, “That’s not how confession is supposed to work!”, in reaction to the ‘SecCheck’ sheets. They couldn’t believe $cientology actually has printed “confessional” question sheets. Especially with such intrusive questions on them.
– When it was mentioned Auditing and SecCheck sessions were recorded, the general reaction was,
“That’s not a church, it’s an extortion racket. Why aren’t they being investigated?”
– Pretty much any time Yingling opened her mouth, the reaction was, “Lying sack of sh*t.”
– Yingling’s obvious insincerity made the exes who spoke out all the more believable.
– Everyone noticed $cientology was heavy with ad hominem attacks, and never really addressed the issues being raised by critics and exes. It went a long way towards validating what critics and exes have been saying about $cientology’s ‘Fair Game’ practices all along. The concensus was, “My God! This is a church?”
– Most of the group couldn’t understand why a non-$cientologist was on the show answering questions for $cientology. If not Miscavige, they thought it should have been some high level $cientologist executive/clergy. I had to explain these days there are no high level $cientologist executive/clergy except for Miscavige.
– Serge vs Yingling, someone quipped a local saying, “If I had to buy a cabbage, I’d take his. Hers are full of worms.”
– General reaction to the ‘Squirrel Busters’ segment, “Are those idiots for real?”
– General reaction to Serge getting help from a psychiatrist, “After what they did to him? Thank God!”
– General reaction to $cientology’s attacks on psychiatry, “Assholes!”
Yingling: “I was told…”
Exes: “I experienced…”
Yingling: “All the exes are lying…”
Neighbors watching with me, “WTF?!? Yingling’s just parroting what $cientology told her to say. She doesn’t have a clue what’s actually going on.”
Bravo for widening the audience of indignation and sharing the reaction here.
Way to spread the word. We have to keep pushing vigilantly until the public hits a critical mass of knowledge and indignation.
Ryan Kelly says
I didn’t like the show, but generally I don’t like 20/20 due to it’s effort to turn news into entertainment. I thought it gave too much focus on the nice buildings and not enough time to Leah’s message. They spent too much time on repeating Scientology’s dismissive explanations for why people were complaining about the organization and not enough time determining if they were true. It made this out to be something for people to watch from the sidelines, rather than something that people should be concerned about. 20/20 missed their opportunity to be taken seriously.
Ella R says
Clearly we were watching pieced together footage, but when Leah called Dan an asshole, I thought she was asking him for an assessment about whether all the people trying to hold Scientology to account are telling the truth.
I recommend you re-listen to the interview Ella.
He was …” asked what he thought about scientology losing its tax exempt status..”
No, I think Ella’s right. The editing’s a little choppy, but Leah and Dan didn’t refer to tax-exempt status specifically in this exchange. It was more about holding scientology legally accountable in general and validating exes stories. Here’s what I transcribed:
Dan V/O: But Leah Remini has no plans to slow down. She says she’s hoping more ex-scietnologists come forward to her–and ultimately, to law enforcement.
Dan: “What is your fondest hope–that you bring down the church?”
Leah: “That somebody’s willing to be honest enough to say, ‘What these people are saying is true, and I’m ready to prosecute.’ We need that person.”
Leah: “Damn right. What do you think about that, Dan?” etc.
Marti Carlson says
Great post. Similar to thoughts I had after watching. Too much time spent on cult rep and not enough on the incredible well of data about abuse. Oh my, Yingling’s eyes a gave a terrible face representing the cult – and BS was written all over her, which I’m sure was evident to most viewers. She looked pretty bad considering what her kind of money should buy. Amazing that she should comment on Leah getting a fair exchange for her work on the A&E show. I wonder why Yingling doesn’t give up her money for defending the cult if in fact it’s such an ethical altruistic results-producing non-profit (barf) organization.
You can put lipstick on a pig, but it’s still a pig. What a disaster she was.
chuckbeattyexseaorg75-03 412-260-1170 says
“….Muffins COULD use some TR 0….”
Yea, and some bullbait on her 2D buttons like in any standard Scientology crank-training course room. Let some 12 year old bullbait her in a standard Scientology crank-training academy Ideal Org. (not)
Scientology is crackpot, and advising some of that crackpot stuff on Scientology’s long term highly paid lawyer mouthpieces, actually good for her if she’s dodged doing any of the Scientology crackpot fake religion.
Who would wish crackpot Xenu “body-thetan” high-volume exorcism on anyone?
I kept thinking her eyelids must be fluttering due to overpopulation of her eyelid “body-thetans.”
She needs her OT 5 fast (not, and no one deserves to be weened up to believing in Xenu’s engram causing earth’s “body-thetan” problem for which only OT 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 are the supposed solution—it’s soul snipe-hunting with the Hubbard Ouija-Board-Emeter is what it really is).
Nobody needs any of any of it.
Leah and you and all who do shows are all Kha Khans for life!
I don’t know Chuck,
“I kept thinking her eyelids must be fluttering due to” the fact she might be asked :
1) If she was being paid by the cherch for her appearance
2) Whether she was a Scientologist
3) If she has ever done a course or received auditing
4) who provided her with the answers to the questions?
20/20 has an average viewership of 5.14 million. CBS 60 Minutes has an average viewership of 16.4 million. ‘Aftermath’ had a recent viewership of 1.8 million. By any stretch of the math, 20/20 provided at least 4x the audience of ‘Aftermath’. That alone is a victory.
Yeah, Dan Harris isn’t Mike Wallace. Dan does what the producers tell him to do, he was not lightweight, but neither was he a heavyweight. I wanted a pissed off Ed Bradly to do the interview. Ed was a head banger, he could just cock his and head and give a ‘are you shitting me’ look.
With all the additional stuff ‘in the can’, maybe another ABC show could air it? Hell, 20/20 could and should do a part 2 and exam the tax exemption as currently used by $cientology, Bennie Hinn, Joel Osteen and others.
Barb Teed says
“Ed was a head banger, he could just cock his and head and give a ‘are you shitting me’ look.” GREAT comment!!
Mike Wynski says
I AM glad 20/20 aired something. But, that show has been garbage for a few decades now.
I agree…I watch it out of habit mostly, but it is mostly garbage. Nightline is pretty awful now too. We need good journalism and our corporate masters are just not providing it because they are too worried about the bottom line. Sad, sad state of affairs.
I thought Leah handled herself very well. I would have liked to see some more hard hitting questions asked of Ms. Yingling about Scientology and discuss her history working with Scientology and how long she planned to continue doing that. I think making it personal may trip her up. I also think it is interesting that the media will offer and push their own opinion and agenda on many issues but can’t do that with regard to Scientology.
Media CAN paint any picture of Scientology OR critics that satisfies their bosses. You know this already.
Leslie Norman (@SouthernATLgal) says
My local ABC affiliate preempted the show for storm coverage in Atlanta (which didn’t even come to fruition!). I hope I can see the show online when it’s available, but I did see many of the tweets about it last night. I continue to applaud you, Leah, and all of the others who have been damaged by this organization for exposing them for the fraud that they are. No “religion” would treat their parishioners this way! Keep up the good work!
Marti Carlson says
Yes, it’s available online. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kxqt5msaVVg
Leslie Norman (@SouthernATLgal) says
Thank you! Just watched it!
Leslie….go to tonyortega.org. He has the show in its entirety. Its in today’s posting about the Call Me board. Scroll to the bottom.
Have a good weekend.
Leslie Norman (@SouthernATLgal) says
The full episode is on Tony’s blog (Underground Bunker) this morning.
Leslie Norman (@SouthernATLgal) says
Dr. Maria Taheny says
People who are taught as children to speak truth often make horrible liars. Forensic psychologists know to look for blinking eyes and touches to the cheeks or lips to know when a person is lying. The more blinks, the less the person believes their own lies. This is why Miscavige does not blink. He believes his own lies. Psychopaths never blink. They give overly intense stares without blinking as their body language communicates a determination to make others believe what they are saying, no matter how implausible. The body usually betrays a liar, either way.
And those who seek truth know this intuitively!
Marie guerin says
Thank you , dr Maria. I knew overblinking was a sign but never pushed it to “. They do not believe their own lies”
Dr. Maria, thank you for your commentary. I was hoping to see something posted from a professional concerning the $cn attorney’s body language. I was hoping the signs of stress and lying that appeared on my big screen were as obvious as I thought they were. Thank you for weighing in.
On Tony’s site there was an excerpt from a professional talking about body language and how to tell if they’re lying. It’s in the comments section.
Emily Dickinson wrote, “…pain has an element of blank…” a century before LRH spoke of engrams.
In 1950, Diabetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health claimed “scientific” breakthroughs for mental health. Hope was on the horizon. Subsequently, Hubbard brilliantly codified linear steps in scientific parlance toward transcendence.
Emily’s 19th C poetry was replete with transcendence sans stepping stones. “The brain is wider than the sky…” Or: “The Soul unto itself is an imperial friend…” I especially like how she dealt with her own emotional state in:
I can wade Grief —
Whole Pools of it —
I’m used to that —
But the least push of Joy
Breaks up my feet —
And I tip — drunken —
Let no Pebble — smile —
‘Twas the New Liquor —
That was all!
Emily simply takes a look at her situation, sees it for what it is, then moves on. Women can see things in a more holistic way than do men with their linear methodology. Both are required in a twin-like way, I say.
Today, in the 21st C, the scientific world is passing scientology by. There is no science in scientology today. This quote, “Any science that does not take into account all data pertinent to the function is flawed science” illustrates this fact. Scientology is flawed when it cannot/will not factor in the human quotient. It’s Borg-like. An individual has no autonomy within the group today. Yet, when I entered scientology, I learned one’s true individuality was augmented through scientology. One’s personal ethics was their best security.
Albert Einstein said, “People like us, who believe in physics, know that the distinction between past, present, and future is only a stubbornly persistent illusion.” Curiously, the most current scientists have improved upon Einstein’s theories suggesting consciousness/awareness is “the ground for all being” per physicist Amit Goswami.
Bruce Lipton, a cell biologist, has taken us out of the Darwinian mode of survival of the fittest towards bridging the link between matter and consciousness, showing with his research that we create health and/or disease with our thoughts. The cells of the human body survive through cooperation, as does mankind in the macro. These are the kind of scientific facts that may help human beings transcend if they seek such a path.
The HeartMath Institute has definitive data showing the influences of humanity’s thinking on the world itself. Earth’s electromagnetic pulse resonates within each of us and vice versa. We are all connected electromagnetically, and we can cause the flows to go smoothly, or not.
The last and final freedom, according to Holocaust survivor Viktor Frankl, is one’s choice of attitude. It is a freedom no one can take away. There it is as E.D. proclaimed long ago – an authentic self protects the whole.
typo Diabetics vs Dianetics
I liked Diabetics better.
Vic Krohn says
I appreciate this comment, Songbird. Well reasoned and well written Thank you.
Songbird: “Yet, when I entered scientology, I learned one’s true individuality was augmented through scientology. One’s personal ethics was their best security.”
Yes, that vision was how it started out. And the practical applications of it – truly groundbreaking in their potential to clear away barriers – are and will continue to be there for the taking, whether it’s called “scientology” or something else.
Excellent post, Songbird. Thanks for shedding some light on both the good and bad of “scientology” and on related teachings and developments. I believe that the more light given to all of these, the more the truth of each will be known.
Cynthia Ejiogu says
I agree Mike. I love the show and was glad to see a wider new outlet looking at the subject. But you are right it looked like at the last minute they cut in the “spokesman ” interview because no one has gotten them to speak since you guys came on. Keep up your good work. I was not raised in Scientology but i was raised in LA. Their commercials are a part of my childhood. I also had a father that hated them because he was a science fiction fan from the 50’s and thought LRon Hubbard was a hack. Had no real talent as a writer so started the whole religion thing because he could.
I’m from LA too and I remember them trolling Hollywood and Sunset Blvd. handing out pamphlets. Without telling anyone, my friend went to meet with them. They held her in a room for 2 hours and wouldn’t let her leave.
Yup, me too. I was raised in Los Angeles and the Scientology building had this weird “spookiness” to it whenever we drove by. I had no idea what it was, other than my parents clucking and shrugging their shoulders. I remember my dad reading Dianetics and just shake his head. Later, I actually reached out to Scientology in a moment of personal desperation, but they weren’t looking to help or recruit desperate people, even if their literature said otherwise.
David Mann says
Dr. Strabismus of Utrecht says
“Scientology is not N. Korea…” True, but it’s still a totalitarian state-within-a-state. That alone should warrant using some of the USA’s vast intelligence capabilities to investigate it as a matter of urgency, don’t you think?
Jens TINGLEFF says
and not being North Korea really shouldn’t qualify the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology for tax exemption…