Leah and I talk with attorney Ford Greene this week. Both fun and informative.
Ford appeared on one of the Aftermath Specials with 9 or 10 other people and unfortunately didn’t get much airtime…
I will add the link to the podcast when it becomes available:
Ford has fascinating insight into litigating with cults, and especially scientology.
He went into the Moonies in 1974 to rescue his sister, but ended up brainwashed himself, staying for 8 months before walking out. He said it took a year after walking out to deprogram himself at which point he resolved he had a personal responsibility to stop cult abuse of First Amendment religious liberty protections.
From 1976-1978 he worked as Moonie deprogrammer as memorialized in Josh Freed’s book “Moonwebs: Journey into the Mind of a Cult” which in turn provided basis for feature film “Ticket to Heaven.” Ford entered law school without a college degree in 1978. Admitted to practice law in California 1983.
In 1988 he won a seminal case against the Moonies in the California Supreme Court (Molko v. Holy Spirit Association) establishing that brainwashing without knowledge and consent was not protected activity under the First Amendment and imposing liability for fraud and intentional infliction of emotional distress when deceit is used by a religious organization. Also in 1988 he won a jury trial acquittal of deprogrammers charged with felony kidnapping in Denver Colorado based on use of defense of necessity that deceit, fraud and coercion of the Moonies was so bad that it justified breaking of criminal law as a last ditch effort to stop it.
In 1989 he started litigating against Scientology by accepting representation of Vicki and Richard Aznaran (she was the former Inspector General of RTC before Miscavige ousted her).
He was part of the legal team who collected almost $8.7 million from Scientology on behalf of Lawrence Wollersheim in 2002.
He represented Jennifer Gorman against Scientology for childhood sexual abuse.
He represented Gerry Armstrong in his battles with scientology
He also won a $1.625 million punitive damages jury verdict against Ananda Church of Self Realization. and has litigated child sexual abuse against Fellowship of Friends cult.
His insight into litigation with cults is unparalleled.
Of course, he has endured many scientology Fair Game attacks including two criminal investigations, multiple state bar complaints, civil lawsuit, ongoing surveillance, spying, noisy PI investigations, taking his garbage and more.
If all that’s not enough, in addition to his cri9minal defense practice, since 2007 he has been elected four times as council member for the Town of Anselmo, CA where he has been mayor three times.
Practices criminal defense on a daily basis.
Because they are so noteworthy, I am including some quotes from courts in key decisions Ford has won:
The California Supreme Court in Molko:
“For it is one thing when a person knowingly and voluntarily submits to a process involving coercive influence, as a novice does on entering a monastery or a seminary. But it is quite another when a person is subjected to coercive persuasion without his knowledge or consent. While some individuals who experience coercive persuasion emerge unscathed, many others develop serious and sometimes irreversible physical and psychiatric disorders, up to and including schizophrenia, self‑mutilation, and suicide. The state clearly has a compelling interest in preventing its citizens from being deceived into submitting unknowingly to such a potentially dangerous process.”
Molko defines brainwashing.
“Brainwashing is ‘a forcible indoctrination to induce someone to give up basic political, social, or religious beliefs and attitudes and to accept contrasting regimented ideas.’ The specific methods of indoctrination vary, but the basic theory is that brainwashing ‘is fostered through the creation of a controlled environment that heightens the susceptibility of a subject to suggestion and manipulation through sensory deprivation, physiological depletion, cognitive dissonance, peer pressure, and a clear assertion of authority and dominion. The aftermath of indoctrination is a severe impairment of autonomy and [of] the ability to think independently, which induces a subject’s unyielding compliance and the rupture of past connections, affiliations, and associations.’
The first Court of Appeal decision in Wollersheim compared Fair Game to the Spanish Inquisition’s practice of neutralizing heretics:
“As we have seen, not every religious expression is worthy of constitutional protection. To illustrate, centuries ago the inquisition was one of the core religious practices of the Christian religion in Europe. This religious practice involved torture and execution of heretics and miscreants. Yet should any church seek to resurrect the inquisition in this country under a claim of free religious expression, can anyone doubt the constitutional authority of an American government to halt the torture and executions? And can anyone seriously question the right of the victims of our hypothetical modern day inquisition to sue their tormentors for any injuries—physical or psychological—they sustained? We do not mean to suggest Scientology’s retributive program as described in the evidence of this case represented a full-scale modern day “inquisition.” Nevertheless, there are some parallels in purpose and effect. “Fair game” like the “inquisition” targeted “heretics” who threatened the dogma and institutional integrity of the mother church. Once “proven” to be a “heretic,” an individual was to be neutralized. In medieval times neutralization often meant incarceration, torture, and death.”
The Wollersheim anti-SLAPP case language discusses how Scientology abuses its power to silence critics.
“When a party to a lawsuit engages in a course of oppressive litigation conduct designed to discourage the opponents’ right to utilize the courts to seek legal redress, the trial court may properly apply section 425.16. We hold that in making that determination, the trial court may properly consider the litigation history between the parties. The legislative rationale in enacting the statute is consistent with such an analysis because acts which are designed to discourage the bringing of a lawsuit are no more oppressive than acts which seek to prolong the litigation to a point where it is economically impracticable to maintain and pursue it to a final conclusion. When one party to a lawsuit continuously and unsuccessfully uses the litigation process to bludgeon the opponent into submission, those actions must be closely scrutinized for constitutional implications.”
During our discussion we talk about the tactics scientology uses to hoodwink courts and in particular the Sea Org control of all things scientology. Though Ford was not a lawyer in this case (it was the IRS and scientology going head to head), the Church of Spiritual Technology v. United States ruling stated:
“After carefully examining the record and attempting to understand the nominal corporate structure of Scientology it is apparent to the court that it is something of a deceptis visus. Real control is exercised less formally, but more tangibly, through an unincorporated association, the Sea Organization, more commonly referred to as the Sea Org. This group, in the nature of a fraternity or clan, began with Scientologists who pledged themselves eternally to Scientology and who accompanied LRH in his sea-going spiritual research in the Mediterranean”
Excellent as always. The Firm comparison made me laugh seeing how Tom Cruise is the one who brings the Firm down!
Excellent interview! I’ve listened to every one of the Fairgame podcast episodes. His perspective from a legal standpoint was very interesting. It still amazes me that Scientology is still around. Should have been shut down a long time ago, and certainly should have never been given tax exempt status.
This was a great episode (the best so far) because Ford actually has something important to say. While its great letting people air their grievances you guys need to be focused more on the prize here – bring that house of cards down. Instead of focusing on individuals maybe your foundation should be building a legal team (if that’s possible) or at least some compilation of the legal stuff at play, and more importantly the arguments that WORK. Its not about whether the rape victims are right or not — its in the court that that decision will be made, not the press and not the blogs and podcasts. The ‘facts’ are always way too emotional and easily used to distract and confuse no matter how hectic they are. Its the points of law raised by Ford and his successes that are missing from nearly everything else going against the COS. Focus on creating or retaining some lawyers who ARE knowledgeable – some crazy bunch of young legal zealots who can pull in to every case like some kind of mad A-Team. Ford can be a teacher (I hope). Less focus on the ‘crimes’ more on getting something legal done. Most of your funds should go towards this goal IMHO. This is how you will help everyone, not airing their awful experiences. Mike you are so frikkin knowledgeable you could educate anyone – find the right students – call for them, advertise for them, etc etc. This is how you can best serve your cause. Let Leah deal with the emotional stuff and the public and awareness, you know how it works, what works and what doesnt. Like no one else (other than Marty). You can fill the gap regarding “lazy lawyers” and get a team of hard-ass muthas to take the fight to court and win fair dinkum proper. With the help of Ford and your experience and others you probably know who fit the bill, you can really achieve something real here. Time to be the man in charge of the OSA again – but AGAINST the COS. You are the man for the job. And ffs mate, wheres the book of your experiences?? That’s the one I want to read godammit. The real sh*t, warts and all. You are already forgiven, lift the lid properly! JUST DO IT!! And whatever else, keep going, you WILL prevail.
I am rallying around these bold points made by blog participant “Mike” to our blog maestro and catalyzing force, Mike Rinder. The team of Leah and Mike is filled with superpowers. The piercing and precise revelations from attorney Ford Greene, and the other gentleman to whom you’ve talked based in Texas, attorney Ray Jeffrey: Could they be brought to preside over, as this Mike describes, an A-Team of hungry, super educated lawyers to extract the rest of the necessary blocks in this Jenga game? Get Taylor Holley on this team, with her cogent mind.
We know, Mike Rinder, you must hear this every week, so I will simply add to it: a memoir you would write would be stunningly well-received. Some of the stuff you lay down that you saw or participated in, it’s jaw-dropping and always revelatory.
We are all here to support you, Leah, the Aftermath Foundation, Chrissie Carnell-Bixler and the other three women, Valerie, the Garcia’s, everyone who appeared on the “Aftermath” show and is coming onto the “Fair Game” podcast. We will keep writing our public officials, paying attention, inviting more and more people to tune into the “Aftermath” series and “Fair Game” podcasts, and finding ways to participate in the forward motion.
Transformation is afoot. #exposure
Hear, hear! (or is it Here, here?). Rereading some of the above I just want to say, I do not mean to put down you guys airing people’s (horrific) experiences, just more to say – Mike: more ‘Head of OSA’ tone 40, less “LeeLee” … ya sure know DM & crew ain’t gonna be pulling any punches, his whole existence is at stake!
🙂
#legalATeam
To blog community participant “Mike,” as a fellow participant in this blog community, I read your message as a robust “Hear, hear – You guys are powerful and unstoppable, up the game [if you are not already*].”
I put an “*” here because there are things Leah and Mike do behind the scenes that the rest of us don’t know about. Where we can take action to support, Mike is explicit, such as providing the list of US congress members on the legislative committee deliberating un-doing forced arbitration agreements; inviting us to call, email, or write letters.
I hear what you are putting forward, the urgency and need to be willing to bring what it takes, the credo: “Don’t bring a knife to gunfight.”
Perhaps in Sea Org Scientologese, we would say, “Don’t bring a plate of rice and beans to a five-star chef plated multi-course dinner.”
Totally agree re lawyers being ill-educated on scientology. Scientology’s (religiously) ritualistic nature may not be as apparent as other faiths – and those evaluating its practices through a theistic lens will likely be blind to it – but it’s blatantly obvious to anyone who scrapes beyond the surface. The CoS has been screaming about this stuff for decades, roping in numerous academics to help sell its churchiness. Heck, it’s all there on its own frikkin’ website (see http://www.scientologyreligion.org)
Judge Kleifield clearly had an issue with the word “ritual” despite the fact his ruling referenced scientology’s “exclusively religious” claims on a separate point. He even suggested the plaintiffs didn’t fight this point hard enough. Ffs.
My heart goes out to all that had to go through that but curious if anybody knows it’s Delphi Health. Org is involved in that
My ex/former fiance was a Moonie, as was his entire family. He left as a young adult, but he’s since disconnected from me (he says it has nothing to do with it). The similarities between the horror stories he told me (and what I witnessed firsthand) and what I’ve read & seen about Scientology…it’s so similar. I don’t know how much I’m allowed to say here but there was exorcism, forced marriage, and so much other physical & mental abuse.
Thank you for not letting ghoulish abuse like this continue to hide in shadow. Thank you for shining a light on “churches” like this!
This is the beauty and the wisdom of Leah & Mike taking on a podcast. So many intriguing and persevering people in the “Aftermath” series. Now, in the podcast episodes, we get to further unpack their experiences and intellect. Thank you “Fair Game Podcast” team.
O/T. List of governmental legal proceedings against David Gentile and GPB Capital. Updated 2/16/21.
(Added State of Georgia Commissioner of Securities Notice of Opportunity For Hearing and Proposed Order to Cease and Desist.)
A. Federal Criminal Indictment.
The US Department of Justice Press Release:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/pr/gpb-capital-founder-and-ceo-among-three-individuals-indicted-private-equity-investment
The federal criminal Indictment:
https://www.justice.gov/usao-edny/press-release/file/1364431/download
B. Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) Civil Complaint.
SEC Press Release:
https://www.sec.gov/news/press-release/2021-24
The SEC Civil Complaint:
https://www.sec.gov/litigation/complaints/2021/comp-pr2021-24.pdf
C. State Civil Complaints and Administrative Actions.
Alabama Securities Commission Press Release and Civil Complaint:
https://asc.alabama.gov/images/ConWatch/2-4-2021GPB-Press-Release-and-Complaint.pdf
Georgia Press Release:
https://sos.ga.gov/index.php/securities/secretary_raffensperger_joins_several_states_sec_to_bust_18_billion_ponzi_scheme
Georgia Notice of Opportunity For Hearing and Proposed Order to Cease and Desist
https://sos.ga.gov/admin/uploads/GPB_Capital_Holdings,_et_al1.pdf
Illinois Administrative Action:
https://apps.ilsos.gov/adminactionssearch/adminactionssearch?command=viewPDF&itemId=92%203%20ICM7%20PRODCMZ13%20SE_AA_MgtView59%2026%20A1001001A21B05B31436F0790418%20A21B05B31436F079041%2014%201051
Massachusetts Administrative Complaint:
https://www.sec.state.ma.us/sct/current/sctgpb/2020-5-27-MSD-GPB-Complaint-E-2018-0100.pdf
Missouri Press Release:
https://www.sos.mo.gov/default.aspx?PageId=10000
Missouri Securities Order:
https://www.sos.mo.gov/CMSImages/Securities/AP-21-01.pdf
New Jersey Press Release:
https://www.njconsumeraffairs.gov/News/Pages/02042021.aspx
New Jersey Civil Complaint .
https://www.nj.gov/oag/newsreleases21/GPB_Capital_Complaint.pdf
New York Press Release:
https://ag.ny.gov/press-release/2021/attorney-general-james-sues-private-equity-fund-manager-ponzi-investment-scheme
New York Civil Complaint:
https://ag.ny.gov/sites/default/files/gpb_not_assigned_the_people_of_the_stat_v_the_people_of_the_stat_complaint_2.pdf
South Carolina Order to Cease and Desist:
http://2hsvz0l74ah31vgcm16peuy12tz.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/02/GPB-02483064xD2C78.pdf
/
Brilliant lawyer; brilliant interview! Excellent information about cults. Thanks all of you for stimulating adventure.
Courts are stymied by cults. Majority of Lawyers have No Conscience. It is as if morality is subservient to money, wealth and false arguments. The conclusion is obvious and is agreed. Even on a National level the main issue is cults and followers. Scientology which wrote the book on cults over forty years ago has ingrained its mind control principles into the general population. This has been caused by a greedy business culture and legal profession which has blocked all reason in society and industry to its own ends.
Mike – I’d LOVE to see Ford Greene consult on the cases for Valerie and Chrissie This is an episode I am particularly excited to hear (though- LOL I think that about most of them) because Ford Greene is OG-scientology activism and genuinely understands the subterfuge that is the corporate structure of co$ to a degree that parallels that of former execs, like Mike and/or Mat Pesch.
*Note – For anyone newer to the subject or unfamiliar with Ford Greene, click the keyword link (above, at end of Mike’s post) that says Wollersheim. This case was massive and a decades-long effort by the co$ to avoid paying a judgment. Info about the inner workings and Corp structure became public that never had before and shed light on the fact that this byzantine structure was created SOLELY to shield from liability in any court cases brought and to funnel monies to LRH and later, David Miscavige.
I just listened to this episode. Really enjoyable.
Excluding – and for a long time already – that scn can be approached to the concept of being in some way a religion (except for its fundamentalist side as Mike said), what remains is that of being a disguised ideology.
The kind of extremist ideologies that sees potential enemies everywhere and fights any person or group that even seems to go against them.
A totalitarian / fascist ideology.
FASCINATING interview. Ford is so articulate and well versed in the law, it’s too bad that those suing scientology weren’t able to have Ford as their attorney or at least have their attorneys consult with Ford as to what they are dealing with in scientology. He has got it down!
Thank you Ford for becoming an attorney; you have a great legal mind.
EXACTLY my thoughts Mary – he is someone who wouldn’t be surprised or derailed by their tactics, as he’s seen and responded to it all before and has an innate grasp on their motivations and anticipating their next step! Something so inspiring about someone who got into the law the way he did, the cases he took on and just kept going!
I’m a lawyer and what Ford Greene said is absolutely true- there is no shortcut to preparation and doing the work. The attorneys in the Masterson case may have gotten a different result had they checked in with Mr. Greene, or read the volumes of tedious Scientology policies. Many people think being a good lawyer is being good at “arguing,” but I think the key is reading, and reading, and reading. And talking to people. I’ve been guilty of cutting corners, too, but it’s upsetting when the attorneys for the Masterson plaintiffs might have gotten a different result had they done more homework.
I hate playing armchair quarterback, but Mr. Greene mentioned a few wining arguments he made that the attorneys in the Masterson case did not. I feel bad for them, and the plaintiffs. They were still in the right, but as usual the judge was bowled over by the “difficulty” of parsing through Scientology’s first amendment claims.
Mr. Greene really prepared to the utmost, and beat a horde of white shoe attorneys. Wow.
Priscilla?
Did you ever see the movie “The Verdict”? I am not a lawyer but there is one quote from that movie that I really love and I hope it may apply here.
One elderly lawyer told the lead lawyer (played by Paul Newman), “People have an uncanny ability to see through the tangle to find the truth.”
It was words to that effect and I’ve always remembered that. Eventually, one of these judges will understand the issues and will see through to the truth and then, I hope, the blocks will all come tumbling down.
This quote does not exactly apply to our situation because this elderly man (oops. sorry. he was a doctor and not a lawyer. He was being paid to testify to help Paul Newman’s team).
It does not exactly apply because he was talking about a jury and he was saying that ordinary people (like the people on this jury) can often possess a strong ability to see through all the legal mumbo jumbo and recognize the truth.
I would hope that one day one of these judges will finally understand the truth about this cult and understand their position on the first ammendment is just a device to bolster their ability to avoid being sued.
Thank you very much, Mary, for accurately appreciating me!
So, common crimes aren’t protected by the First Amendment?
☺️ Only if they’re religious crimes.
Thanks for all of this, Mike. Just from the above information, this fella is one of the heroes.
I’m grateful for his work.
and to you for sharing all of this and helping him.
Really looking forward to this episode. I would have loved to have seen more of him on Aftermath, but there was so much other ground to cover and he’s a busy man. He seems like such a fascinating character in the long-running Scientology drama.
Ford Greene has nailed the actual control of the Clampire to the Sea bOrg. I knew that, but does the IRS know? Attacking the IRS tax exemption should be very easy. Yeah, that’s the ticket.
Auditing Scientology: Reexamining the Church’s 501(c)(3) Tax Exemption Eligibility
https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=3777276
Thanks Isnoinews
That’s why scientology paid the Wollersheim judgment on the very morning a 10-day evidentiary hearing in Los Angeles Superior Court was set to commence. The subject of that hearing was teed up to be the breadth and depth of Sea Org control over all scientology. Miscavige blinked as he did not want either our road map to become public or the judge agreeing that our view was accurate. Thus, Miscavige ordered payment of almost $8.7 million instead.
Mike, my daughter has a friend who just moved to Clearwater. They had been active in Personal
Improvement Seminars. I have been watching and listening to you snd Leah for years! I think this organization MUST be related to Scientology ! Can you tell me it is indeed connected?
You snd Leah are heroes to me! Keep up the brave, crucial work!!
Do you have a link for the personal improvement seminars?
http://www.personalselfimprovement.com
Thanks — I took a quick look. Nothing there sticks out at Scn and I dont recognize any of the names.
John Assaraf is in a video on the PSI link provided above. He was in the documentary “The Secret” primarily teaching the law of attraction (LOA). In my opinion, it’s best to go into any of these teachings with healthy skepticism. The LOA teachings are a slippery slope into believing in super powers, which inevitably leads to disappointment. If navigated well, personal improvement teachings can lead to a happier and more balanced life. Stay grounded, read a variety of teachings, keep learning, and most importantly keep an open mind and trust when something just doesn’t feel right. Your smarter self is constantly doing its best keep you on a healthy, safe and sane path in life.
O/T. Syncretism.
Nation of Islam Brother Luqman Muhammad (who recently started the Scientology Student Hat Course) advises members of the Nation to “Marry the Supreme Wisdom with the Supreme Tech.”
“The Supreme Wisdom” refers to the book “The Supreme Wisdom Lessons By Master Fard Muhammad To His Servant: The Most Honorable Elijah Muhammad For The Lost-Found Nation Of Islam In North America.”
“The Supreme Tech” refers to Scientology.
The reference to Scientology being “The Supreme Tech” parallel to “The Supreme Wisdom” is something that I have previously seen from NOI members in addition to Brother Luqman, and indeed appears to now be standard parlance in the NOI.
The use of the phrase “The Supreme Tech” in the Nation of Islam to describe Scientology Tech is hugely significant, and even more so is the consistent conjunction of that phrase with “The Supreme Wisdom.” “The Supreme Wisdom” is primary, indeed foundational scripture in the NOI. Writing about “The Supreme Tech” and “The Supreme Wisdom” in the same sentence — drawing a parallel between, if not almost equating, them — is very deliberate and sends a powerful message.
Original Facebook post:
https://facebook.com/groups/DianeticallySpeaking/permalink/3537133519718973/
My ESMBR post:
https://exscn2.net/threads/members-of-the-nation-of-islam-are-practicing-the-religion-of-scientology.55/post-77185
/
Thanks for the links. The average NOI Minister selling newspapers in the street says that they study Dianetics but not Scientology.
Scientology can be made compatible with Islam. I do not see a problem. However, Elijah Muhammed was very specific in stating that White Intelligence is inferior to Black Intelligence. Even the current newspapers make mention of this. Personally I see the split on this point down the road. Blacks will view Miscavige as inferior intelligence which is basically true. These Blacks will take control of Scientology.
From what I’ve been reading many NOI are at work “blending” scn and dn into their NOI studies or scripture, so far successfully and not seeing contradictions. They continue to say they are Muslims first and are just using scn and dn. Outside of the restrictions of the C of S they can choose their own interpretations. They can enjoy what Elron originally told all new scientologists that they can use what you want and leave the rest.
I wasn’t sure about the word syncretism so I looked it up and it rather sums up what I wrote above. For word nerds from http://www.dictionary.com
1. the attempted reconciliation or union of different or opposing principles, practices, or parties, as in philosophy or religion.
2. Grammar. the merging, as by historical change in a language, of two or more categories in a specified environment into one, as, in nonstandard English, the use of was with both singular and plural subjects, while in standard English was is used with singular subjects (except for you in the second person singular) and were with plural subjects.
First recorded in 1610–20; from New Latin syncretismus, from Greek synkrētismós “union of Cretans,” i.e., a united front of two opposing parties against a common foe, derivative of synkrēt(ízein) “to form a confederation” (see syncretize) + -ismos noun suffix (see -ism)
Ford Greene sounds like a real winner. It is ironic that Hubbard often talked about the Jesuits and the Inquisition. Attorney Greene used the story to attack Scientology. Great work.
I had a dream last night to attack Hubbard as an Ostrogothic Vampire. It made a lot of sense in the dream. He was actually a terrorist and sucked money out of people.
The comparison between fair game and inquisition fits perfectly.
The term inquisition should be extended as well to scn ethics and justice and “religious arbitrations”.
Most of the times – if not always – who calls a committee of evidence on someone has already decided what would happen to the person being investigated, well before the meeting. The rest is just PR and paper work.
There is no hope for justice.
Not only that, Loosing, but if the Committee members were to find otherwise after their investigation of the matter and were to be so impertinent as to say so in their findings they would find themselves in a bad situation. If they fail to agree with the Convening Authority who wanted the Interested Party shot, they will find themselves standing against a brick wall. Now the Convening Authority may well be in a similar pickle. His or her senior or their seniors may be behind the whole thing. This is how a great guy like Mike Rinder once “destroyed those the church wanted destroyed”. And how yours truly, before he kept the Freewinds going, once kept the trains going to Treblinka.
Heil Miscaviage!