13 years of massive international expansion” generated by the “ideal org program” has not seen the orgs in these cities make it to ideal
And not a SINGLE org in the entirety of the Eastern Unites States has achieved the size of “old St Hill” (which by definition is the “make-break” point — below which orgs are unviable and staff are not paid well according to LRH). This includes the “ideal orgs” in NYC, Washington DC, Buffalo, Cincinnati, Atlanta and Miami (Tampa is part of Flag and does not fall under the “EUS Eagles”).
Note: * means they have had a vacant “ideal” building for a decade or so….
Bonnie gets all sentimental and teary about how wonderful Miami ideal org opening was and that “spiritual freedom is open to their city”. Well Bonnie, what about the ideal org right there on 46th St? Or the one up there in East Harlem? They just don’t seem to be making any impact whatsoever…
As a final note to Bonnie the PR & Marketing Queen – that LRH quote you selected really doesn’t help your cause. At all. Sort of negates the idea you need a building to “set your eternity in place”…
I live and have grown up in the town next to Battle Creek. First, not to besmirch the fair citizenry of that city, but the economy has taken a huge hit there since Kellogg’s made drastic job cuts several years ago, and the town is kind of a wasteland. I have a hard time imagining there is a lot of money to get from anywhere in Battle Creek to do anything to help that org. Second, the Seventh Day Adventists (sort of how Kellogg’s Corn Flakes came into existence as part of a treatment at the “Battle Creek Sanitarium”) still have the market cornered there on extreme religious ideology. They are only very closely followed up by the very large Dutch Reformed community that exists in west Michigan (people in these parts call the political leaders of Grand Rapids the “Dutch Mafia” for instance). There is a town on the lakeshore named Holland that has an internationally renowned tulip festival every year complete with a parade of dancers in wooden shoes and the governor comes dressed in traditional Dutch attire to lead the “sweeping of the streets.” Church attendance is very high in this area and many people still actually speak some amount of Dutch.
The only time I’ve ever heard of Scientology activity in the area is several years ago when someone told me about how they were court ordered to a narconon facility (that has since been force closed by the state). They did not have good things to say. There are several Scientology affiliated drug rehab facilities in Michigan, including a “detox” facility in Battle Creek, a “rehab” in Adrian, and a “rehab” in Manistee. I know that there are court complaints of Nation of Islam members being used as security at the “rehab” facility in Manistee and providing substances to the patients there.
I think the Battle Creek org is likely an empty shell at this point. They are probably paying for heat in the winter to keep the pipes from freezing. I very much doubt anyone is actually there. I’ve been meaning to drive by however to see if the lights are on.
Just finished reading Janet Reitman’s book! Great book…she explains how these buildings/real estate is like McDonalds franchises…that’s how the cash really flows – from ideal orgs. Which sounds like the old “mission” days, actually. The more real estate, the more cash flows..but what happens when the org members leave & there is truly nothing but an empty building? Where’s the cash flow then?
Mike Rinder says
It’s not an accurate picture. Cash does NOT flow. The buildings are investments to prevent too much cash accumulating.
Hey Mike, the man! Do you have an idea of when your new season of Aftermath will start? I saw the 2 hour exellent show and don’t want to miss anything ..
All of those vapid quotes from LRH could be applied to anything, to any side of any argument or debate.
Any of his logical utterances were nothing that hadn’t been discovered by many philosophers before him, and which were most certainly plagiarism.
And his convoluted and meandering pronouncements were no wiser than a preteen’s immature poetry, or rage, about the world. Especially the rage part, that translated into revenge and bitterness, which was then woven into the fabric of scientology’s cruel policies against “critics”.
Fink Jonas says
True, I been listening to Alan Watts and Hubbard sounds pretty much like him, even the jokes are similar, so yeah no need to pay for the bridge.
And to be clear, Watts has more cred than LRH could ever hope to have had. He had a master’s degree in theology, was an ordained Episcopalian priest, seriously studied Buddhism, although stopped short of being a monk, and was very interested in the synergy of the science of psychology and Buddhism. More of a serious autodidact than LRH ever thought of being, he read widely in various disciplines – I kind of think of his stuff as the Jeet Kune Do of philosophy. He has respect from his intellectual peers, which LRH did not, (other than some fellow sci-fi writers) and didn’t seek to monetize or weaponize his personal perspectives of helping humans deal with life. Worlds of difference. It pays to expose oneself to all kinds of schools of thought before you pronounce yourself a Messiah. And it’s telling that the ones who have the nerve to do, generally prohibit their followers from studying outside information so that people don’t realize they are often derivative and not that original after all.
(other than some fellow sci-fi writers) I’ve found no indication and LRH had any degreee of respect for ANYONE. He didn’t respect his fellow SF writers; he played them.
I lived in NE for 40+ years & Never heard of them nor saw any building. The more I hear about them the more they seem much like Jim Jones & we know how that ended out & hey Mike whens your show on I saw it that one day but that’s it I sure hope I still get that station I down graded my stations due to cost & don’t have a DVR or VHS anymore but I enjoyed the show other than those disclaimers so the same,same,same from them… Good job guy’s & I don’t think DM needs those disclaimers for every show just because some ppl choose to tell there side what harm would that do to a so called religion Oh wait there all Lying never mind Disclose away lol I don’t read them anyway I have a Brain,no money but it’s okay…. 🙂
Nattering Never-Ins says
Here in the Metro-Detroit area, there is only the one Co$ on Middlebelt Rd on the West side, really far from anything … at all … the building purchased in downtown Detroit just sits there.
As the late great Ernie Harwell might say, it just sits there, like a building by the side of the road. It is PRIME Business and Convention space down there!
Our local NOI organization, Shrine of the Black Madonna, has not popped up in the news speaking on it, but, if I may stoop to generalizations, my locals tend to be suspicious of ‘certain types’ that characterize most of Sci. Especially when ‘certain types’ never quit demanding work and money!
Detroit’s Motto is – from what I remember all of MY life:
“Slavery Days Are Over.”
I find it interesting that New Haven is an ideal org, in fact, I’m rather shocked.
For giggles I looked up Scientology in my state and discovered that there was only one, and in New Haven of all places. This amused me.
I went to the maps to see exactly where and had a chuckle. It’s right around the corner from the college I commuted to. Must have passed it a dozen times and never even knew it was a Scientology building.
While you might think it’s a good location near a college … it’s in the wrong direction of campus foot traffic. At least it is now. Maybe when it first opened it was an “ideal” spot.
Additionally, New Haven? Talk about a struggling city. While I could write a novel on the failed infrastructure and government corruption, I will digress. Suffice it to say, nothing is ideal about this location.
Curious to know when it actually opened. My grandfather and cousins grew up there and back in the day it was a city with potential. Last 20 years, people have been bailing like rats off a ship.
I guess Scientology doesn’t have the power to turn it around.
Buying in depressed markets- that sounds like Spanish Lake, Mo. I wonder how many $cientologists in good standing are realtors?
I visited the New Haven org a couple of years ago. I don’t think things have improved
Hi, Societalbane, mega thanks for the report on my home town. I was curious about the $cion org (or was it a mission?) in New Haven and couldn’t find anything current on line, so thanks. I believe it’s on Whalley Ave, so that would be out toward SCSC (or that was it’s name when I once took courses there). I’d be curious to know if they ever get out there on the Green and do any body routing.
I just ran a Google search on $cion in CT and saw that there’s supposedly a mission outside of Hartford – but there are three different locations listed: Collinsville, Rocky Hill and I I can’t remember where the third one was – definitely not in downtown Hartford, that’s for sure. There’s a google photo of an older house in Collinsville (grew up in CT, have no idea where Collinsville is, so let’s say it’s not a major thoroughfare). But then there’s a photo of monstrous scientology building with camera arms sticking out, resembling a weapon of war more than a church. Apparently this edifice is located somewhere else and has nothing to do with the local mission. Typical false scientology advertising. All the info at the New Haven org and the (possibly defunct) Collinsville mission consists of slick pablum from the @cion propanda center in LA.
Off topic: yeah, New Haven has gone down hill alright. My wife is also from there and we occasionally drive down for pizza and a nostalgic visit to the Peabody Museum. Thanks again for posting.
Mea culpa for the typos.
Hey bixtram, nice to bump into a local.
I’ve seen 2 missions in Hartford area listed on the web, next time I go to Westfarms mall I’ll be sure to check them out.
Regarding New Haven, I was attending SCSU on Fitch and Cresent street. The student parking lot was about a block or so from the church. It was about 2008 and there was no body routing as far as I saw in the 2 years I attended there.
I did some research last night and discovered that in 2011 the city attempted to foreclose on the building and were behind on utility and service bills.
You’ll notice in the pic – no Scientology logo on the building. If you are really curious, court documents of the case are available online as well.
Also found an article by a local reporter in 2013 describing how they vacated the first floor to only occupy the second due to costs. It’s a lengthy read and he only discusses New Haven specifically towards the last 5 paragraphs.
Glad to hear you get to pop in from time to time and enjoy a meal. Personally, I only go there when I have to, such as fix my phone at the Apple Store lol.
Nice to meet you and enjoy your summer.
More thanks, Societalbane, for further info on $cion in New Haven. No evidence of the plague up here in VT (knock on wood). There may be a few snowbirds with summer homes, but if so, they’re silent. I invited Cathy Schenkelberg to come put on “Squeeze My Cans” locally (in Brattleboro), found a very receptive small theatre owner. It’s too far out of the way for her, but who knows? Maybe some day.
Call Me Snake says
I love New Haven, I know a few people who live in and around New Haven, it’s my favorite city in Connecticut. What exactly do you think is struggling about it?
Some urban blight as everywhere else, I suppose; moribund downtown, crime, corruption, etc. There are some nice areas and upscale pockets, though and there’s Yale, of course. Last but not least: great Italian food!
Gene Trujillo says
As far as I am aware, the Proportionate Pay plan has not ever paid the staff well for any significant length of time at any org of any size.
Even when St Hill was “St Hill sized” it paid the workers a normal fixed wage. There was a directive of some sort in the old blue “ED packs” that talked about switching to the Proportionate Pay plan after Hubbard left as one of the reasons that it began to fail. I wish that I still had that reference.
The real reason for the Proportionate Pay plan is to transfer the risk of not meeting payroll from the organization, where it belongs, to the worker. Then they can just ignore the needs of the staff. If anyone suggests doing otherwise, they are labeled as “selfish” and “1D oriented”.
In CofS, suggesting that the staff should be paid for their work is bad. I have seen an HCO Interrog from up high searching for those dastardly people who feel that the staff should be rewarded for their efforts.
Human trafficking the staff OTOH is completely acceptable. After all, it results in more free labor for CofS, the most ethical group in the history of the universe. Never did see an Interrog searching for those who would threaten someone’s family to force them to work for free.
Essentially the Class V org staff work on a commission basis, as I see it. Nothing wrong with that. Lots of people earn a living on straight commission. Except it behooves anyone working on straight commission to know a good deal about their product, who buys their product, and last but not least, in what esteem this product is currently held by its customers and would be customer. That’s why the Class V staff members are so f**ked. They operate on assumptions. Lots of effort, time, etc. – lots of good intentions, all based on assumptions. They assume that someone whose name is not in Central Files knows nothing about Scientology. Big mistake! That person is hightly likely to know plenty about Scientology, and none of it positive. I do feel sorry for them, but then, at some point one has to wonder, “How much longer can you twist and turn away from what is so obvious?” To me, the long term CL V staff exhibit a seemingly inexhaustible blindness, obstinacy or both. Or maybe they’re just stupid.
Gene Trujillo says
“Essentially the Class V org staff work on a commission basis, as I see it. Nothing wrong with that.”
There is the blindingly obvious wrong thing that it has never lead to the staff making anything close to a living wage.
I consider it to be like a MLM scam. As long as you build a large “downlines” and they kept selling, even a little, it all adds up. The person at the top gets a fortune. Sure is nice for them, if they can stomach it.
My 2 Cents says
Many of the entrereneurial missions of the late 60’s paid their staff much better than orgs did. As Distrib Sec (Marketing Director) of our local mission I made a flat salary of about $1500/mo in today’s dollars. That’s not much, but it was enough for an idealistic 21-yr-old to live on, especially considering the free auditor training that was also part of the deal.
$1500/mo was not a bad salary AT ALL in the late 60’s. $375 per week went a hell of a lot further then than it does today! And with free auditing (which they actually GAVE you, i’m assuming) it sounds like you had a very good job at age 21.
My 2 Cents says
No,no. I made a little over 200/mo in the late 60’s, which would be about 1500/mo today.
I think I made something like $20 per week at my org in the early 70s. Had to supplement by working a temp job on my day off (Saturday’s).
Gene Trujillo says
Yes, some of the missions at least had consistent pay for a while. They had a lot more freedom with their money – and everything else – than the orgs.
I am told that Hamburg org also paid consistently for a while in its heyday under Weibke Hansen because she made a point of making sure that they were. I also heard that was part of what lead to her removal – it was “squirrel” to take care of her staff.
They prefer the remorseless human trafficking types, like my own ED, to anyone “worker oriented” enough to think that the staff should be rewarded for their efforts.
L Shelley says
“… with each org that has opened their floodgates to Planetary Clearing.” Do these people even realize the rate that the earth’s population is growing. Currently about 150,000 a day.
With the CLO EUS in control I am not surprised. The level of dev-t and off policy administration would dink any ship.
When I think of the words “dink” and “ship” together in the same sentence, I automatically think David Miscavige and Freewinds… especially the dink part.
… as in tiny 😉
Jonathan Mark says
In the 1970s the Boston org was located near Kenmore Square and Boston University. There were lotsa body routers out on the street. I thought of them as “Scientology weirdos.” The Scios wearing clerical collars seemed particularly odd, since the young Scios wearing them were obviously not ministers. But the location was conducive to getting college students roped in. Even I walked in one day just to see what was going on. I used a fake name so they wouldn’t call me.
Now the Boston org is in the suburbs somewhere in an area with little foot traffic. Even if Boston “goes ideal” it is still moving backwards. The Boston org recently gave up on its plan to renovate an abandoned building in a rundown part of town which would still have been inferior location-wise to the property it had owned in Kenmore Square.
Selling the Kenmore Square location showed that CoS is all about its real estate portfolio, not dissemination. The abandoned building in the rundown part of town had more upside investment potential.
Shirley Hubbert says
Does anyone know when Season 2 : Scientology and the Aftermath will start. ?
I can’t wait…
I Yawnalot says
Yes the wait is not all that pleasant, but if you think about it for a second and reverse it. The prolonged sweaty squirming and dread in anticipation of season 2 fermenting within the Cof$’s upper management structure and OSA is fair compensation.
Yawnalot, the dread in awaiting the latest onslaught against his crumbling sanctuary must be driving the paranoid Miscavige deep into his scotch bottle.
He is, everyday, losing membership heads to slap, membership necks to strangle, and membership stomachs to sucker punch.
His lovesick best buddy forever Tom Cruise just bombed at the box office with the Mummy.
And all the while, David must wait in agony for the next unstoppable force… the relentless attack, the wave after wave blitz from Leah and Mike, and the exponentially growing public outrage.
This isn’t ever going away, Dave. You had better try, somehow, to extricate from this mess, and honesty and atonement is your only possible salvation. A golden parachute isn’t going to save you.
A Diamond says
Mike? Many of us are wondering. Only time frame I’ve heard so far is “later this year”. Is there a scheduled start date yet please?
Mike Rinder says
No date yet. We have to finish putting it together!
“The location is passed by the hundreds of thousands daily,” yep, she nails it there, alright!
Will someone clue in Ms. Bonnie that NY Org’s location is also ‘passed by the hundreds of thousands daily’ and per their Facebook Page they average 1 Clear per year?
Come on, Bonnie, now, really! You are headquartered around the corner from NY Org, are you not? In your position you have to know this. Anyone can know this! Their pathetic stats are an open book! You cannot be ignorant of this. So, I ask you, how do you make it okay with yourself to spew out this utter BS to people who trust you?
Dave Fagen says
By believing it herself.
I get it. But, wow.
Latter Day Scientology: A bridge to hell
Old Surfer Dude says
+1! Yep. Right on the money, Jim!
But, then, Hubbard himself, looks like he was kicked in the head by a horse, had dotting grandparents and relatives who foster his narsistic mind into what everyone in Scientology suffers into “being like Ron” today.
What a long sad unhopeful ending.
Greatest interview of Jon Atack done by Jeffrey Augustine, a true REAL expert’s interview, best I’ve ever heard in my opinion, gives the best info summarized, the interview just builds up and is well worth listening to the end of it:
I agree Chuck. It is excellent and history I’ve not heard covered in an interview.
I Yawnalot says
Been thinking about that and that’s where the empty space phenomenon really excels in the con of Scientology – the is NO BRIDGE!
There are no auditors or will there ever be, no real live, honest to goodness thinking people in or connected to any those expensive shinny empty buildings. Those that donate to the creation of such spaces or give their time are following a hollow, just an ideal emptiness of a dream.
The really sickening but obvious truth is, organised Scientology is one BIG whopping LIE in the guise of their latest scam of being a real estate acquisition venture operated and forwarded by a bunch of criminals lead by Miscavige. Prior to that it was a repackaged and then repackaged materials and courses con, over and over. Their format of operation is now forged with what they can get away now that they can afford the best of legal advice. It’s never been about spiritual gain or helping anyone, heaven forbid! Because selling empty space and wasted time is a hell of a lot more profitable.
Do you think the lower orgs have been simply been reduced to the “irreducible minimum” (Hubbard condemnatory two word phrase)?
The only things going, I see, are 3 sectors:
a) buildings (Int Landlord Strategy, which is under EEI Establishment Exec International Executive’s “point of business” strategic responsibility)
b) Income. Gross Income Executive International’s strategy
c) Celebrities. WDC CC (Watchdog Committee Celebrity Centres) sector
And from the ASI strategic views, this adds up to the LRH Image strategy which is ASI’s major wish of Hubbard’s, per the ASI advices.
so empty is fine, so long as money funnels UP, and the celebs holding the fort, Cruise and Travolta, just by not quitting, are doing their parts.
WDC FSO’s sector is Flag making appropriate money, of the richer dupes funneled up to Flag, which pays for Flag’s upkeep.
I think Miscavige’s managing seems to be “working” as good as it can be, especially when the quackery of Scientology kills some people and causes nonstop turmoil in followers’ lives.
Flag’s money seems “stable” in the million plus dollars a week amounts, I always want to know Flag’s current weekly income, that would so tell of the overall problems.
If Flag can’t pay it’s weekly maintenance bills for all its’ buildings, due to not enough weekly money being made at Flag, that’d be so important to hear of that on the ground news, from some new defecting Flag Service Org Treasury division personnel who defect!
I Yawnalot says
The lower Orgs are simply the sacrificial lambs imo, the front line cannon fodder. They are nothing more than bait. I gave up trying to understand the Scientology system of organisation, even though I studied it. I reject the whole shebang as a failed intelligence exercise. What keeps Miscavige rolling in the dough stands as a wonder of deception. If there’s anything to be learnt from organised Scientology it’s how it survives on the lies it is built on. In years to come I can imagine the academic will have a field day explaining it all.
Your in depth explanations of it’s structure Chuck I find amazing but in essence confusing.
“…sacrificial lambs…” Yep, that indicates. I felt sorry for the staff of my little org. They were at the mercy of the “orders” from above and yet they tried so hard to follow them, follow the orders from above without invalidating us, their public. Quite a tightrope they had to walk. Plus they had to put on a brave, cheerful face for our sake, as to do elsewise would have been “out PR”. I’m seeing this now all in hindsight. I’m ashamed to admit that for many years I believed them to be actually happy! They were really good at projecting enthusiasm about being on staff! Only in the last few years when I started reading the blogs did I get insight that what they were projecting was not real cheerfulness and enthusiasm but a facade for the sake of PR. Now, in fairness, I have to say that we ALL do this sort of thing to a certain extent, but man oh man, they were good at it! So good, that even now I’m harboring some doubt and wondering if perhaps it was, some of it, for real, after all.
I Yawnalot says
We tried to do the right thing…
Your words are appreciated… but we were both fooled! Live a little and have some fun are more than sufficient. That’s more than enough amends.
GASP! The next thing you’ll be telling us that there is no spoon. There is a spoon, a SPOON, I tell you. I’m using it to eat my food with….hahahahaha…heeheehee… no spoon. Am I using my fingers…wheeee…I’m Edward Spoonhands…see, I’m using my spoons…
When all the dirty laundry finally spills from the basket, I wonder what will happen to these lavish buildings. Will they be regarded as stigmatized properties (where something really bad has happened in the past), nearly impossible to sell?
Harpoona Frittata says
I’ve already begun writing a grant to secure funding to turn these empty and soon to be abandoned Idle Morgues into sanctuaries, so that the multitude of rudely evicted BTs can finally be re-homed.
$cn is abusive and exploitative, not only to individuals and families, but to the dislodged spirits that the cult has mistreated as well. BTs are thetans too! No one has the right to treat them as inferior spirits that can be tossed out of their meat body, co-habitations with the kind of utter disregard that the cherch has shown for them!
I wish there was a “like” button, Harpoona. I think I read you to say, “Who cares?” Perhaps a wrecking ball IS a better solution.
One might hope they would be turned into safe havens for those who need a place to live once the fiasco organization hits the skids. As bad as it is, a crappy meal and a roof over one’s head is all they have now…..when the shit hits the fan, they will be left with not even that. Way to sickening to comprehend, a “life’s worth of work”…and for WHAT ???
No education, no money saved, left adrift on their own, a scary thought. At the very least with any luck and love…the ones THEY oh so willingly disconnected from to stay loyal “to the cause”….will welcome them with open arms & hearts…..& help them start life anew.
(Balletlady), one thing the Sea Org does for a person that can be considered positive is that it instills a work ethic. There is no job an ex SO can take on that will be more difficult, time consuming and/or financially unrewarding for the hours put in. Many SO have become successful after leaving the cult, sharing on the internet that ull time jobs they’ve held, or the hours they’ve put in to build their own businesses are cake walks compared to the effort and time and low pay they experienced in the Sea Org. Many have come back and done well in their business lives and home lives, in spite of the incredible suppression they endured, suppression many still must overcome although they hide it in their day to day lives with people outside who would never in a million years understand what they endured or why they stayed.
Glad to hear that some members have made it on their own once they leave COS. They sure as Hell make a lot more money too. I would think some might also be offered extended educational opportunities as well. Some colleges accept “work experience” as part of college credits.
My concern is for the older folks who at 60+ must find an income to live on, as well as affordable housing with no real income in place. Social Services would help, but is not the answer the older folks need. Hard to imagine giving 30+ years of one’s life and get no retirement etc.
You are right about the senior citizen SOs. If they’re still physically fit they’ll be OK if they leave. If they’re not fit to work the cult offloads them. I know one ex SO who married (for the 5th time, she had already had 4 husbands in the SO) when she was offloaded for health reasons after decades of service. Its so wrong. I look at the kids of the Still Ins who’ve joined the Sea Org because they really are fit for nothing, trained for nothing, and have probably already wasted some years on staff at a Class V org producing nothing and getting losses…so they join the SO. That’s their “solution”. They don’t believe they’ll ever be old. Who does, at that age? They don’t really get that they’re committing to NEVER having children, this lifetime at least. But I digress…
Harpoona, that is an inspiration!
Only when one leaves scientology can anything be done to benefit humanity. Anything done while “in” only benefits David Miscavige and his willfully ignorant celebrity useful idiots.
I Yawnalot says
A lawyers and local govt bureaucrat’s extravaganza! Nothing like a good old criminal/scapegoat brought to justice to grease the wheels of a legally exclusive feeding frenzy! There’s gold in them thar Scientology enterprises… yeee haw!
If the Flag Service Org is making 1-2 million bucks from the funneled up the lines outer orgs’ public who get funneled up to Flag to pay for the exorbitant overpriced top of the line Flag quackery pseudo-therapy-exoricism, IF the money is being made, then “it’s working.”
So important would be for us to know what the weekly Flag Service Org weekly gross income amounts total up to.
I suspect, if local merchants are NOT clamoring for unpaid Flag Service Org purchases, then Flag Service Org IS making enough to make this whole setup stay afloat, sad to give that opinion, but that’s the sad fact.
if FSO weekly GI is big enough to cover Flag Clearwaters’ staffers maintenance costs, then it’s “working”.
The empty lower showcase entry level portals to this big scam are “working” in this whole lineup.
Thank you, Chuck. Your points all are well-received. That it has worked and is working are notions that deeply sadden me. So, I intend to drill my own hole in the ever-floating ship
The question is: Working to what? They’re selling fairy dust. Even Bob Duggan has to realize that sooner or later. Or, perhaps his ego couldn’t stand the rejection?
The foregoing comments belongs far below in response to Chuck Beatty’s comment regarding “it’s working” somewhere below.
Stephen Hutcheon says
Australia is no different – ideal orgs in Melbourne & Sydney, more empty then they were five years ago – I feel sorry for all those people that went too actual or near bankruptcy donating for these expensive empty buildings, and the numerous relationship of husbands and wives that ended up separated or divorced, as a result of financial pressures – very sad and so very wrong.
Old Surfer Dude says
There’s only one creature getting rich here. The dwarf…
I Yawnalot says
The invisible vultures are circling, of that there is no doubt. Ding-a-ling licks her chops everyday in anticipation of that inevitable mistake that Miscavige will not see and blunder into that brings the whole house of cards down. The last trustworthy person on earth is a Scientology employed lawyer! Just to pay for her silence… geezers, how many zeros can one put of a check?
I Yawnalot says
Tim Fitzgerald’s (et al) ruined life stands in testament to your words Stephen. He’s lost the lot, family and all!
I’ve known this but to see it laid out like this and the significance of actual empty buildings for over ten years! WoW! david miscavige’s only game at this point (being the control freak he is and lacking any true love for the church of scientology) is to keep on hanging on – for dear life – to who and what he’s got left to work with. The toxicity of this group stinks to high heaven.
Just think if david miscavige were a BENEVOLENT dictator…. Well, never mind, too much water under that bridge (no pun intended). Back to “keep on hanging on” until he turns over what’s left of this wreckage called The Church of Scientology and ride off into the sunset with his scotch, his money and his groomed sycophants.
I would like to hear from someone who was on staff at one of the first handful of ideal orgs. I’d like to hear what was said at staff meetings, product conference, ad council, and what the whisperings and veiled comments were after a couple years of being Ideal.
I can imagine how it’s spun – the inescapable in-your-face reality that the org didn’t boom. The staff leaving, wandering away, the toll the heavy ethics push to get the goal – depleting erstwhile stalwart supporters ….
Empty course rooms, low stats, same struggles, now just in a shiny new expensive-to-heat/cool building.
Is it just the same old spin? The SPs, psychs, prison planet earth stuff?
I figure eventually when the ideal org program is completed or abandoned people will eventually forget the Int Strat, Field of Dreams. But it must be painful and bewildering in the in-between times.
I don’t envy it. I have empathy and ….. a bit of morbid interest.
Old Surfer Dude says
Whoa! Just a shade below Dante’s Inferno. Thy master is delusion..
Some people get all misty eyed visiting sacred sites like Stonehenge, The Western Wall or Rachel’s Tomb. Scientologists blub at bland office blocks. http://bit.ly/2t9mu4B
Even though I’ve now been a Lapsed Catholic longer than I was an Observant Catholic, I got a feeling of spiritual solace and awe when I visited Notre Dame (the cathedral, not Touchdown Jesus) and Chartres. When I’m driving through downtown Chicago back to my residence in the suburbs, I take an occasional pass-by the now-vacant-for-a-decade site of the Chicago Idle Morgue. My feeling? Hang a huey and get on to the Eisenhower, and maybe take a shower after I get home because the mere sight of that place makes me feel unclean.
This time last year I was sat at the top of a Burmese temple in Bagan, Myanmar, watching the most jaw-dropping sunset bathe the ancient landscape beneath me in a beautiful pink, serene glow. It was a deeply humbling moment; “spiritual”, yes; almost surreal. It was truly a life-enriching experience and far more potent and genuine than any silly sci-fi “cognition” gained from a quack regression cult.
On the other side of the world, the same sun rose over an ideal org. A gaggle of sweaty, sleepless, polyester-clad cultists were no doubt seen chaining cigarettes and downing espressos, rallying themselves for another soul-destroying day of stat-chasing the shit out of an empty building.
Brilliant comment! Thank you
Espi I have a photo of a bum bedding down for the night in a sleeping bag in the doorway of that empty ideal org in Chicago from 2010.
At the time I had no clue it was scientology owned, it was just an old library that my daughter’s girlfriend was pissed had closed because it was within walking distance of their home. She said, “at least they could have done something with it after they bought it.”
I didn’t get into caring about scientology until late 2011 when they began stalking me and laughed when I made the connection when someone posted the address of the Chicago ideal morgue. When I went back in 2012, the building had deteriorated further and my daughter had left the neighborhood due to the decay.
I seen it since. My daughter has left the state so I doubt I ever will. Not sad about that.
That should have read I haven’t seen it since, I need to proofread before I hit post. OSD I blame it on you. Do you care. I was suffering from CRS?
“The location is passed by hundreds of thousands daily.”
This is true.
“Passedd” is the operative verb. 🙂
And holding their noses when they do.
Old Surfer Dude says
And passing gas in their general direction…
I Yawnalot says
I’ll second that ‘motion.’
Old Surfer Dude says
I third that Loco Motio.
There are now FAR more scamology staff than there are active public in the CoS (USA). That is NOT going to change for the better. The bacteria are starting to eat the corpse…
Wynski, the closest plausible numbers I’ve seen to that, are that it might be running close to even, if membership is down as low as 15,000, and with staff around 7,500 – a number that I believe comports with John P.’s analysis and other sources. Do you have evidence for an even more lopsided proportion?
Regardless, I think this trend spells real trouble for Scientology with the IRS, because the organizations start to become more something like a communitarian religious group or even a private club, which get classified differently and then have different tax and reporting obligations.
PeaceMaker. I’m talking number of people taking a service in an org in a week. There are FAR more staff than public on lines on a weekly basis. It has been that way for a number of years now. Any other “membership number” is completely subjective as to be a scientologist is to be doing the bridge
I’d like to believe that, Wynski. Not saying I don’t. Just saying.
Chelsea Dyer says
What is it with Miscavige and buildings ?! Nobody gives a flying fuck about their big fucking fancy schmancy buildings !
Hey David Miscavige,
NEWSFLASH DUDE, Nobody is impressed with the buildings and you’re still a giant douche ????????
Old Surfer Dude says
I Yawnalot says
You see, he doesn’t give a flying fuck what anyone else thinks about the empty buildings or him. He’s got the billions to prove it! That’s all that matters to him. He knows it’s a scam, and from his perspective – so what? What are you going to do about it? Assholes think like that.
If cathedrals converted people to religions we’d all be Catholics after a tour of Italy, Spain or France, for starters.
Ah, these people quote LRH just to make it look sanctioned by him. The actual relevance doesn’t matter.
Old Surfer Dude says
Re the cult: “”Nothing really matters, nothing really matters to me.”
“I was alive and I waited waited…”
I Yawnalot says
Puts a whole new perspective to, “dead men tell no tales,” doesn’t it? I think Hubbard is worth far more dead than he ever was alive… a speculative assumption with a few avenues to explore hey?
Old Surfer Dude says
As never in – I thought Scientologists were keen on “exchange” – like in you give & get in exchange – that’s why they don’t help homeless..there’s no even exchange. What about all these buildings? Does “exchange” work on donating to bldgs & getting nothing back? Is that “out exchange” or a whatever?
Dave Fagen says
It’s true that they get nothing back, but it’s what they THINK they get back that makes them think that they are following the principle of exchange. They think that by paying for this “Ideal Org”, the exchange that they are going to get back is an improved civilization in which to live, because they think that the “Ideal Org” solves all the problems that have been preventing Scientology from expanding – and they think that the expansion of Scientology is the ultimate solution to the world’s problems.
Ask NOT what Scientology can do for YOU
Ask what YOU can do for Scientology…….
Ans: Give them ALL your $$$$$
Barbet, the principle of exchange is selectively applied in the cult. The Church of Scientology does not concern itself with the correct and fair application of the principle of exchange and limits its attention on this to ensuring that IT ALONE is contributed to. The cult must ALWAYS receive its correct exchange. THAT is insisted upon, always.
Otherwise, the operating if not theoretical principal is pretty much along the lines of “virtue is its own reward”.
One’s “reward” for contributing is that one has HELPED.
And, frankly, THAT would be OK if it were actually TRUE. It feels good to help, to know that one has helped, albeit with money, or effort or time.
So, this would be fine, if it were true.
Except it isn’t.
That one has helped by donating is a delusion on the part of the donor and an utterly cynical, fully aware, lying con job on the part of Co$, the recipient.
Donating for Ideal Orgs or the IAS helps no one who needs help and builds nothing that will help anyone, anywhere.
All it does is make an immensely rich cult, and its corrupt leader, richer.
xenu's son says
“No field has ever been the same as another which has accomplished the goal of ideal.”
As the cult s circling the drain the last remaining Sea Org members are hittting new levels of illteracy.
I Yawnalot says
Yes, good point. It’s apparent illiteracy is a prerequisite for SO & staff membership alike. Being intelligent gets you thrown out or forces you to leave.
That makes me feel better, Yawn 🙂
I Yawnalot says
I consider your feelings more important than any fact Hubbard ever come up with. Live a little, love a lot and smile more than frowning and life takes on a wonderful perspective. Actionable peace – the best of all the pursuits available to us humanoids.
Ann B Watson says
It just goes to show an Ideal Org is no Org at all. Just another way for dm to shore up his increasingly dwindling and restless flock. He can have all the money in the world but throwing it at a church/cult that is rotten to the core or using money to harass and Fair Game the cult’s supposed enemies will get you no-where fast. Dm you will be a dust note in the book of the ages Scientology buried and left without so much as a glance back. Thank you Mike.?
Donna mainville says
I am really looking forward to season 2 you are both making Scientology a thing to be disgusted with.please continue with this amazing information series.
The Church of Scientology opened 63 years ago. That is quite some time. An entire lifetime. Recent information on TV from eyewitnesses states Scientology head David Miscavige is harming church members and imprisoning them against their will in the church to force fake confessions out of them prior to expelling them for triggering his dislike of them or temper. This opens the doors to the end of the Church of Scientology not a portal to spiritual freedom for Mankind. 🙂