My posting this morning is really a lighthearted piece of fluff that has little bearing on anything important.
However, there are two other stories that anyone interested in this blog should read. They are actually important.
First, go to Tony Ortega’s blog and read his very well put together piece about Jillian Schlesinger. A remarkable young woman who walked out of the Sea Org at the HGB only weeks ago. And watch the interviews Karen #1 has done with her and posted on her YouTube channel. (Note, there is a second interview video after this one).
Second, read the latest article on the South African blog. It is a clear, documented expose on the “Ideal” Org strategy from the microcosm of South Africa. When you reduce things down to the detail and specifics like they have done with intimate knowledge of the scene in the orgs in South Africa, it becomes impossible to hide the truth.
Thank you, Mike
Thank you for giving Jillian a voice. The way you allowed her to tell her story in the video makes it very real to others how good people can be used and abused by the RCS. I can tell that she is a brave person and a very nice person and is very deserving of your help. You are an angel to so many people, Karen. Thank you.
Espiritu, you are so right about Karen. I think she may have done even more than giving Jillian a voice. By taping and publicizing Jillian’s story, she may have given her some protection against retaliation by David Miscavige and his thugs. As with Leah Remini, in her own different way, the public nature of Jillian’s departure casts a spotlight on RCS and its crude methods of “handling” dissidents. They can’t move against her without drawing further attention to this unsavory side of the organization.
There was a time, before courageous defectors like Mike and so many others began speaking out, when Miscavige didn’t have to worry about this. Or at least he didn’t bother to. But now he’s in a weird position where, the louder someone talks back to him from outside his circle of domination, the more he is forced to retreat into silence, at worst issuing a few mean-spirited “Karin Pouw” statements that make the organization look petty and contemptible.
As this trend continues, it becomes safer and easier (relatively speaking, because it’s never that easy) for people to leave. Defectors can now count on the support, protection and companionship of the community outside RCS. Any of Jillian’s friends still inside may discover this and take heart. A prison built on fear can be “cracked” by hope.
Excellent post, Richardgrant.
Regarding Jillian, I was shocked to learn about Sea Org members removing dangerous, toxic particles without the use of safety googles, respirators, gloves or suits.
There are laws which govern working with hazardous materials. Where is Cal OSHA?! Surely a church is not exempt from following these regulations and you would think they would WANT to for the sake of the people doing this type of work. I can’t believe they are getting away with this in current times.
I hope one of the SO workers takes photographs for evidence, files a complaint with Cal OSHA, and whistle-blows. The workers would also be entitled to compensation as well, I believe, “church” or not. There are lawyers who specialize in these type of claims and a class action lawsuit on behalf of the Sea Org workers’ exposure to hazardous materials would be fitting.
Jens TINGLEFF says
Ah, but that’s just a traditional way for the Damnation Navy’s slaves to show the religiousness!
Enter following into a search engine and be sad (well, I was sad): blue asbestos Lawrence Woodcraft
Jillian’s survival story is inspiring, being very close to the scene while being in the SO, I can very easily sympathize with you and what you has been through. Very well done Jillian for being able to observe the obvious and make a courageous statement! Jillian, I remember seeing you around, congratulations on your new beginning!
Alex castillo says
Sorry to be a pest, but I request that my post in your previous subject be repeated here.
I just want to TR3? what I said before. If it’s OK with you, here it is+my PS
MESSAGE TO DAVID MISCAVIGE AND HIS OSA CRIMINAL BRAINWASHED BOTS:
David, you must realize by now that you have really been found out for what you are: a criminal, evil being who has been attempting to hide behind the image of LRH, the man who trusted you, the man you so horribly betrayed, the man you wanted dead so that you could carry out your dirty, greedy intentions of becoming an almighty powerful individual. Yes, you have been found out, not just by Scientologists but by the rest of the world. The cult you have created, way far off what Scientology was meant to be, is now recognized as a SCAM and you are no longer recognized as a religious leader but only as a clever Cult Leader with the ability to instill fear on others who believe in your scam. You fleece lots of money off those who believe in your lies, you punish those who doubt you, you recruit children into the sea org so that they become your cheap labor force regardless of how much they risk their well-being and health to serve you, Among the intelligent people of what you call the “wog” world, no one would ever come near your cult to seek help or advice.In fact, the “wogs” (apart from the true Scientologists who are out here watching your insane and evil behavior-of which we are many more than those who follow you today) are the majority on this “uncleared” planet. We are really watching you, David Miscavige. For many of us, you have become a scourge. You are now something the world of decent people can do without. You do not deserve to be a part of the human race. You will soon be put out of action just as criminals of your kind eventually are.After being found out, David, you still have the chance to run with the money you have stolen from thousands of believers and disappear like some of the Nazi criminals did. You are doomed to utter failure. Give it up.
I know you from the old days in Clearwater. You did your best to destroy me because I was loyal to LRH. I know who you were then, I know who you are now, you are one and the same. You never changed, only got worst.
Alex Castillo 1973-1980 OEC,FEBC, DSEC HEJSC trained and experienced Flag Management Evaluator during the time LRH was alive
Alex castillo says
March 26, 2014 at 8:25 pm
Further to my previous message, realize, David Miscavige, that you are not only dealing with Mike Rinder and Marty Rathbun. You are now dealing with many others who have been witness to your insane craving for power, from way back when your cloudy, whiskey memory can’t recall. We are too many for you to even figure out who is trying to make you quit. Think back to 1978-1980. The days when Scientology was actually succeeding in helping people, when Orgs were not “Ideal” but just full of people wanting to have a better life. Think back of when Flag Management was effectively using real stats and was using LRH’s Data Series to help Orgs improve their performance. Think back when you so “cleverly” got rid of all of us who were there for the real purpose of helping others succeed. Just think of how you got rid of all of us. Think back of what Scientology was then without you and your REALLY SQUIRREL methods. How can you call others squirrel when you have turned scientology into an unrecognizable, unworkable, mind damaging cult. That was you intention then, and it is your intention now. But, like I said before, the world is aware of who and what you are. No where to hide, David. And too many of us making sure you don’t go somehow unpunished for your very much High Crimes against Scientology and the Human Race.
Laurie Dlm says
Laurie Dlm says
Take That Little Man !!!!!!
Alex…….tellin’ it like it IS!
DM can run, but he can not hide. Besides all of the well known Scientologists like Mike Rinder, Karen de la Carierre and others, every day there are more and more Scientologists who have figured out where DM is at and now have him in their cross-hairs. He has destroyed something very precious to a lot of people.
He is nearing the end of his game. Soon no-one at all will believe his bullshit because of the disconnect (pardon the expression) between what he says and what he does.
Robert Almblad says
Regarding the Jillian Schlesinger story… thank god for this father’s wonderful and continuing support for his daughter. Without his support, this poor soul might have remained in the Miscavige’s slave camp until death from old age. I am referring to Heber who is now 78… and we probably will not hear about him until well past his passing…
The Jillian Schlesinger story means there is some hope for us 40 year Scientologists and their young families inside the RCS. Save them and get them out!!! Inside the bubble they do NOT see the horrid world that David Miscavige has created.
LRH said this type of spiritual technology is normally used to enslave people, but that is not necessarily so with Scientology. Well, he was dead wrong in predicting the future of Scientology. It’s now a mental slave camp….the psychiatrists have nothing on David Miscavige, he is king of the psychs, that’s for sure.
Richard Lloyd-Roberts says
Having watched Jillians video and read Tony’s blog I am amazed that she has come forth with so much information and so fast. Her escape story is very similar to how I got out. Things must be really bad inside the SO and I feel for her. Given that she must have been looking at the outside world for some time and if she was travelling to orgs (my post was similar) I bet you a million she was reading your blog way before she left.
Joe Pendleton says
Yeah, it’s often tragic and yet, very often funny and sometimes hilarious.
I see no chance of any change or reform in the Church of Scientology whatsoever (in a positive sense).
First of all, anyone who fully comes to realization about the course the CoS is pushing them towards full OTHER determinism across the dynamics, LEAVES. Not ONE individual has stayed and actually confronted those around him or her about what one has observed or realized. Not one. They always leave and whistle blow to those OUTSIDE, never to those inside. I include Mike, Marty, Debbie, Karen, etc ….. and yes, folks, I certainly include MYSELF.
But you also have to realize this arc towards a sort of fascist third dynamic has not only gone on through the thirty plus years of Miscavige, but really took off during the mid 60s. I was shocked a few years ago when I re-studied the SS2 materials. PL after PL of LRH coming down hard on staff members, especially juniors for some reason …… stats don’t go down, they are HELD down ….. seniors, beware that your troubles stem only from non-compliance …… 40 types of dev-t people cause? …. how many crimes and high crimes people are committing? …… ah, yes, ETHICS PRESENCE (use intimidation and flows, rather than actual intelligent plans and orders to get people to respect and follow you) …. degraded beings …… and it goes on and on and on. And what DID Ron really mean when he said “groups thrive when ethics are savage” in PL Conditions, How to Assign ? Am I to be accused of being “literal”? Yeah, it’s only NOT one of the definition in the dictionary when Ron might look bad if you choose ANY of them. Then you have to decide to not be literal and get his meaning between the lines.
The CoS will eventually just shrink down to nothing. Practically no one will get in. And slowly but surely people leave, die or just slink into going to events and trying to hide their real phone numbers. Thirty more years? Could be. (Of course, if Davey can keep working Eastern Europe and some parts of Asia on young people who have never heard of Scienology and want an interesting job and a trip overseas ….. or the new upper middleclass Asian who is interested in the promised super powers that will lead to more wealth ……. well, who knows, there might be a resurgence of sorts with THIS public and a “second act” for the CoS).
In any case, the probability is that Dave will die in office in his mid to late 70s, surpassing even Colonel Khaddafi’s time at the top.
But the game of exposing the abuses done to people’s dynamics in the name of religion is a noble game to play and I salute Mike Rinder, Marty, Karen, the South African folks and all you who are playing it.
Robert Almblad says
I agree with what you said, at least in essence, but lets not be so quick to assume no one inside the bubble is not still holding their position. Maybe Heber or Dianna Hubbard or others? I have NO evidence that this is the case. It is only a wish or hope on my part.
But I agree, it seems people inside the bubble have just been crushed into oblivion and are only shells of their former selves (slaves of Miscavientology). Or, they were people inside the bubble with strong backbones that escaped and then blew the whistle on the abuses INSIDE the RCS, maybe hoping our government or some international humanitarian group might help save the day.
Despite the early failures to alert governments, I think there is some real progress on this legal and PR front…see current court battles.
Anyway, don’t give up hope on our US legal institutions or that some people inside can help. Miscavige is not omnipotent. He is just an ordinary bully.
RCS is in the cross hairs of many US Institutions. LRH and the likes of Mike, Marty, Mr Evil Miscavige and many others beat-up these US legal institutions over the years. That’s for sure! And, because karma is karma, RCS WILL see these institutions revisited on the legal front.
A cog takes as long as it takes. One cannot force it, only coax it. There are still more people who will cog and get out.
After all, Jillian got out just 3 weeks ago. There is still hope.
Joe Pendleton says
Robert, it isn’t always a matter of being “crushed into oblivion” or being a shell of one’s former self. That’s not what happened to me (or the vast majority of people I have known in the CoS for almost 44 years now). Most of us agreed VERY quickly to operate by the dictates of the leaders and “follow orders.” The sad fact is that this human species of ours that we have taken on as beings, is very VERY prone to going into lock step agreement on the third dynamic; at first for all the usual reasons of craving for acceptance, friendship, validation, affection, and in many instances on this planet, protection. Then of course comes the fear of not only shame and punishment when one is threatened with the loss of any of those things, but the actual loss itself, which can drive one completely down the tubes (and in many societies and groups actually leads to death). And in this craving for acceptance on the third dynamic, as we all know from historical study, human beings have been known to commit some terrible, terrible crimes ….. and those who don’t commit the crimes themselves, shut their eyes as tight as they can and learn to keep their mouths shut as well.
But …… I did not expect this to happen in Scientology. I thought I had joined a group that was of another breed, light years more enlightened than the abberated people that had written Earth’s history in such pain, insanity and blood. it is truly fortunate for all that David Miscavige rules a group that is so small and that has no state or military force.
Joe Pendleton says
And Robert, if I may add one more thing please to your comments: Diana Hubbard and Heber Jentzsch are free beings in a very essential sense (and I would include Sara Goldberg’s daughter, the many OTs and auditors who have disconnected from me, and many other people that we have discussed on the blogs in that category). They all claim above human case gain, superior knowledge about life and an exalted ethics level. They do not have to continue to choose to keep their eyes or their mouths shut. They have to choose to stay the way they are … and they know that deep inside. (I wonder how many people on this blog agree with me that there is latent gain when one leaves the CoS. What I mean is that I think a lot of the case gain people got from their training and processing still exists within them, and that when they get rid of the postulate that they have to remain deaf, dumb and blind to stay in the CoS ….. that case gain and knowledge seems to get “woken up” in some cases …. just a thought.)
Another nice post, Joe.
I’m a big fan of yours and read what you write wherever I find it.
And remember, “probability and outcome, Mr. Jordan, probability and outcome.”
Joe Pendleton says
Mr. Jordan? …….. Alanzo, you are a man of wide-ranging knowledge I see.
Yes. Very wide-ranging.
I actually used the text of Plato’s “The Republic” as a coaster for my beer as I poured over Buck Henry’s script for “Heaven Can Wait”.
Joe Pendleton says
Alanzo …. forget Buck Henry please my friend (in this regard) … I think you can still go to youtube and download the original 1939 version of “Here Comes Mr. Jordan” starring Robert Montgomery and Claude Rains …. far far superior to the remake. I await your comments after you view it. For those of you who have not seen it, it is indeed foremost a movie about thetans and bodies …. and some romance, murder, boxing and saxophone playing thrown in as well.
Seen it twice!
It’s superior. How FAR superior of a movie it is will probably require a few double blind studies.
Speaking of Boxers and Thetans and Bodies, there is a spanish/english/french film starring Penelope Cruz (doing her best Tom Cruise imitation) in a 2001 EuroMovie called “Don’t Tempt Me”.
One of my favorites, as well.
War Horse says
Hallie Jane and Mike,
The oldest and snidest trick in the book is “You’re the only one who…”
As in, “Nobody objected except you”,
“Everyone is fine with it other than you”, “You’re the only one complaining about…”
Third dynamically, this usually translates to “Every other org managed to…” or “Yours is the only org which can’t …”
Crude, but still (unfortunately) VERY effective.
The isolation strategy.
” Stats. Our 3 most recent Ideal Orgs in Mexico, Pasadena and Seattle get more than 2000 new people to take their first step on The Bridge every week.”
What amazing bs. Too bad she can’t be arrested for such lies. I spoke to one of my best friends last Spring, before I was declared, about Seattle. He was on course there 2 periods a week for appearances. He, his wife and daughter just moved there and he was strong-armed onto course.
He told me there were very few people on courses. The place was “not busy.”
Really should be illegal to lie as blatantly and as often as it is done.
Right Sheldon! And it is even worse for Pasadena Org. The only few that are there are veteran Scns, mostly OT’s, who are trying to keep up appearances. New people? None. And no outreach to get new people there.
Gene Trujillo says
The technique of implying that everywhere else in CofS is doing well and it is only the org where you are at that is struggling has been used since before I joined staff in ’90. I thought that since every other org was rapidly reaching St Hill size that it must just be us. As I gained more experience, it slowly dawned on my that almost all of the orgs were struggling, and there was really little effort to run them as financially solvent groups, and that some people knew that was the case all along.
I had to piece it together over years because among veteran Scientologists who knew that to be the case, no one will tell you up front because it is “enemy line” to say the orgs are mostly small and struggling. The promo said there were 10 million Scientologists and I didn’t even suspect that was a lie at first so I initially thought most places were much better off than my location in the backwater of Seattle.
If I had understood what I was really up against without having to piece it together over years, regrettably I probably would been on staff at least for a time anyways – I did eventually resign myself to a lifetime of poverty for the sake of the universe – but I would have directed my own life much differently so as to avoid long term damage.
Well done for getting out, Gene, and speaking up. The CoS specialises in belittling individual members so as to deter others in their flock from speaking up. It’s a common bullying tactic as seen in any schoolyard, work or neighborhood group. The object of an SP is to make you look and feel small.
Gene Trujillo says
Thank you. There are a lot of bullying tactics in play in CofS that are used in any police state/authoritarian dictatorship. It took a while for me to understand that because typically they were used by people who for the most part sincerely thought they were using said tactics to “help”. Thus, I naively didn’t detect danger at first – but they were really just dupes working to make everyone Miscavige’s slave (after he took over from Hubbard), and really have few qualms about the tactics used.
Jose Chung says
Complete Global Crash is not far off.
D.M.——What’s You going to do when they come for you ?
Being partial to Miss America, I hereby nominate Jillian Schlesinger as the new “Miss Blown for gOOD.” i would hope that Leah Remini would crown Jillian, :).
Yes, Jillian is beautiful inside and out. And that beauty is one of the reasons DM marked her to come up to Int and work directly under him. He favors having young and good looking women working in CMO and at Int with him. I am so glad that whatever thwarted his plans and resulted in Jillian ending up in the PAC area and then able to blow…. it’s mind boggling. But once Jillian had doubts and was thinking of leaving, she was powerful enough to pull in what she needed to make the escape. I am very proud of her. I hope her heroic actions make others take the plunge and leave too. As Tory says, leaving is as easy as walking across the street. Do it now. Don’t wait till the bitter end. Get out now. Life awaits!
I though about what you said here and when I first read Jillian’s story, I wondered why she didn’t go up to Int too. There could be many inane reasons, as we know how Int operates, but I had a theory. Jillian’s father had escaped from Int himself years earlier and Miscavige, not trusting anyone deemed Jillian “untrustworthy” because of her father’s history. Just a thought I had, that may not have any actual relevance.
Pepper, I think you’re on to something here. Jillian explains the “outside influence” idea in a video or in writing at the Tony O site. And they labelled her dad as her “outside influence” and said it in a derrogatory way. Once when he phoned for her, someone gave her the message, “your outside influence called for you.” (meaning her dad had called her). So I think you’re right that is why she didn’t go uplines. Thank God! It would have been much harder to escape from Int and she would have been damaged psychologically much more from being closer to DM.
Mike Rinder says
Pepper — I just checked the spam file and there were 5 comments from you in there. No idea why. I have just posted them all, and hopefully by “unspamming” you it won’t happen again. Perhaps you could try another test now. I will check the spam folder in a while and see if you have been plonked into there again. Sorry.
Hallie Jane says
My thanks to Jillian for her courage and service. I’m sure she thought she would be helping others, by joining the SO and I hope she finds an on (her) purpose, vehicle to do that in her life.
She’d make a wonderful teacher. She had much dignity for a young woman and I encourage her to take advantage of every opportunity, to get on her feet and reintegrate into real life. My heart goes out to her. The South Africans are taking the bull by the horns, what a mistake dm made to declare so many feisty people at once. Bad idea. The evidence of fraud and corruption continues to pile up. I really hate the concept, that if one doesn’t make something go right, that one is somehow, some kind of degraded being or pea thetan. This really comes across in dm’s behaviors. That was such an insidious mind fuck for staff. that everything you did, or did not accomplish reflected on what a pile of overts you were. Add the evaluative and unnecessary sec checks, and you have psychological damage that is hard to undo. It creates a worst tangle of introversion. I believe that’s why dm likes tc so much, because lots of money means you can get things done, without doing any of the actual work yourself. In the construction trade there’s a joke saying, “the glee of OPM” (other people’s money), because when you’ve got lots of someone else’s money, it tends to flow more freely and without stress. Dm has been in the glee of OPM for quite some time now and he’s completely out exchange and out of touch with reality. I take comfort in the belief, that people do reap what they sow.
Mike Rinder says
HJ — a key part of this technique is to convince people that THEY are incompetent, out ethics DBs but everyone else is doing great and “straight up and vertical.” One of the interesting things about South Africa is that it is so isolated and the lines that the bloggers have into the orgs there cover the ENTIRE SCENE. You cannot pretend things are “going well in Cape Town when they are not in Joburg and vice versa.”
Hallie Jane says
“Comparison is the thief of joy”.
Theodore Roosevelt 🙂
Another facet of debilitating and introverting the staff is the wanton and capricious misuse of the o/w tech (sins), in the effort to handle these incompetent, out ethics DBs. This is only one case type of many, and apparently, it’s the only case that is possible or important in the rcs. They really think sec checks will handle anything. If that were true, Catholicism would have cleared the planet by now. Over time, it has become acceptable to discuss anyone’s o/ws with any one at any time, real or imagined, and you have an unlimited supply apparently. Eval, inval, badgering, ridicule and derision will beef up any case, on any subject, not to mention the complete lack of regard for people’s privacy and spiritual safety. Can you imagine another religion’s minister treating people in this way? Their churches would be empty like ours. It’s not possible to get results under these circumstances and to try is gross out tech. This amounts to psychological torture and is creating a whole generation of resistive cases. Drugs and psychs can have their damaging effects, but bad auditing uncorrected is also on a short list, of things that cause a case to be resistive, ie, auditing is thwarted and it becomes more difficult, to help the person get gains. Damaging cases is one of the characteristics of a suppressive group, so if it quacks like a duck………… I spent years fixing this type of thing so this really pisses me off, especially for the selfless, hard working, altruists that might be on staff.
It seems like now the whole Sea Org has turned into an RPF.
Laurie Dlm says
Very good point! What sort of Condition are they applying ?
Mike Rinder says
NOTE: I will be repeating this over the next week a number of times.
My email subscription software has some compatibility issues so I have replaced it.
If you would like to be notified of my posts by email, please resubscribe on the front page.
The Back in Comm article is absolutely an eye-opener!
Sydney Osborne aka xclassvstaff says
Go Jillian Schlesinger!! Great story.
Roy Macgregor says
Very interesting to hear Jillian mention that the West US orgs she was visiting were empty with only a few people around and using “ideal” course rooms for storage. This is a very telling relevation and important because Mike has been working incredibly hard to shout from the rooftops “something is wrong with radical scientology!” and a testimonial from a recent staff member who was actually in those orgs really underscores the point that this is absolutely true. Close your eyes, plug your ears and shut your mouth all you want, but you cannot change the FACT that Scientology is toileting. Mike is leaking peripheral documents from OT Committees and such like that strongly indicate that orgs are failing, but when a person who has actually been inside and able to count that number of staff and observe the place says she was seeing around 5 staff in some of these orgs that just slams the point home.
I agree an interesting twist on its “all bad over there”.
Now it’s all bad over here and so good over there.
Suppressives and Management or S&M like “Mommy Dearest” probably hoping that the staff will introvert on their sins or something like that.
Had a boycott (like as if Tony’s Blog or Micky Ds is gonna fold up because I stop going to them 😉 ) of Tony’s blog but decided to sneak over and check it out because you put the link there and to my pleasant surprise found a balanced and objective account of what happened which brought back fond memories of the planning that went into my own “Escape from the Church of Scientology”.
Too bad Kurt Russell has moved on because I think it would make a great sequel.
Mike Rinder says
Robin, Tell the story of how you escaped?
Not really much to tell Cindy.
I just worked it out so I would get an “Ethics Investigation” asked the MAA if that meant I was suspended from course and badda bing badda bang I was outa there like Snaggle Puss doing an exit stage right 😉
However the above took planning like knowing what policies they’d apply sorta like A Ethics Officer His Character and Ethics Gradients and which ones they wouldn’t like for example Amnesty Policy and Staff Member Reports.
Since I’d been in Scientology for three decades at this point and since they ignored policies on Amnesties and Awards.
In other words tended toward “willful misapplication” thus it was pretty certain that they were going to spend an inordinate amount of time on this “investigation” and I knew I’d eventually get lost in all this bureaucracy.
Which is exactly what happened.
Never underestimate their robotic stupidity.
Yes, robots are easier to predict than live, sentient beings and you used it to your advantage.
Rory wrote that Mike was shouting from the rooftops that “something is wrong with radical scientology!”
Yes, I agree.
There IS something wrong with radical scientology: There is no such thing as radical scientology.
Radical Scientology is standard LRH Scientology.
For some reason, years ago some Independent Scientologists (we won’t say who they were) came out of the Church and decided to position the Church of Scientology with “Radical Corporate Scientology” to distinguish it from “Independent Scientology” as a marketing technique.
It has been used to somehow suggest that the Church does not apply regular old standard LRH scientology: his ethics, tech, and admin, but some other radical form of it.
The Church of Scientology applies standard LRH Scientology, and there is no such thing as radical scientology.
I’m not attacking you, Rory, just pointing out that this use of “radical scientology” refers to something that does not exist. And that a more accurate term for what you are referring to when you say “radical scientology” is “the Church of Scientology”.
It’s the entity that L Ron Hubbard created, right down to how they must wash the windows with newspapers.
Radical Scientology = The Church of Scientology
Mike Rinder says
Alanzo — you may be absolutely correct that Radical Scientology = The Church of Scientology but I think you are missing something here.
As I recall the genus of “Radical Corporate Scientology” is was to distinguish the philosophy of scientology from the organized practice and to avoid calling it a “Church”. RCS became a substitute for CofS. It was not a “marketing technique” though it was an identification technique.
Radical Corporate Scientology certainly DOES exist, and yes, it IS the Church of Scientology. I certainly do not like calling this a church.
There are all sorts of Scientology practitioners these days outside the control of the church — much to the disgust of corporate Scientology. At one end of the spectrum there are those who are still pretty much “fundamentalists” and believe they have the answer to everything in the written and spoken words of LRH, though don’t practice Fair Game or disconnection because they believe he canceled those things, all the way to the other end of the spectrum of people who will not label themselves a Scientologist but continue to use some of the philosophy and application methods developed by LRH.
The problem is that “Scientology” as a subject has been equated with “the church of Scientology.” Nobody who is not in the church wants to be associated to it. I guess you could call that “marketing”…
BTW, his name is Roy not Rory.
Wow. For months, maybe even years, I’ve been seeing “Rory” when it was always “Roy”. (Sorry about that, Roy.)
I get what you are saying, Mike.
But for me, the label of “RCS”, tends to suggest that the Church of Scientology is somehow “squirrel” as in a radical version of scientology and not really the intended way Scientology was ever supposed to be by LRH.
I believe it allows people to dwell under the mistaken idea that the human rights abuses, and even the criminality, that we are seeing from the Church of Scientology did not come directly from following LRH issues and orders and policies and tech, or from the fervent intent to follow the written and spoken words of LRH 100% standardly.
What Marty has been showing, and what many critics of Scientology before him have shown, is that the criminality and the abuse which comes from the Church of Scientology is 100% standard scientology, and not radical at all.
So I do see your point.
But do you see mine?
Mike Rinder says
Alanzo, yes, I do see your point. As I said, I think radical scientology (i prefer to call it fundamentalist scientology) IS the church of scientology and the foundation upon which it is built is that the word of L. Ron Hubbard is gospel and must be followed to the letter in every respect in order to be a “good” church member. And that includes all the Guardian Orders and Disconnection and heavy ethics. What is NOT found in the writings of Hubbard is the vulture culture, and that is a departure. They have attmepted to cloak it in “on Sourceness” but its always a stretch as there is plenty of LRH writings that say NOT to do “fundraising” and yet it has become the norm. So, I cannot completely agree with you for that reason.
“As I said, I think radical scientology (i prefer to call it fundamentalist scientology) IS the church of scientology and the foundation upon which it is built is that the word of L. Ron Hubbard is gospel and must be followed to the letter in every respect in order to be a “good” church member. And that includes all the Guardian Orders and Disconnection and heavy ethics.”
Yes. And even the instructions to follow the word of LRH as gospel and to the letter come directly from L Ron Hubbard.
What is NOT found in the writings of Hubbard is the vulture culture, and that is a departure. They have attmepted to cloak it in “on Sourceness” but its always a stretch as there is plenty of LRH writings that say NOT to do “fundraising” and yet it has become the norm.
Yes, I certainly agree with you there.
You have shown very clearly, using LRH’s own writings, that “Hard Sell” regging was never supposed to be for new buildings or for getting straight donations for the IAS, but was to be applied for blood to selling scientology services on the Bridge to Total Freedom.
It was very easy to transfer over the instilled fanaticism built into reges by LRH (with his “hard sell” tactics and instructions to “never be reasonable”) from selling Scn services right on over to buying Miscavige new buildings and building up his IAS War Chest.
Once you saddle up that fanatic pony, you can ride him any where.
We do agree. I’m glad you took the time and energy to discuss this with me, Mike, and to let me see a little more of where you are coming from.
I appreciate it.
Roy Macgregor says
Just to jump in with a point of view here. You make good points Alanzo. But think about this. All religions have passages that are harsh and passages that are gentle. Christianity, Islam, even Judaism (a very harsh religion) has some softness in it. A lot of what you get out of a religion is determined by the preist or pastor who leads a particular congregation. That persons personality determines whether he breathes fire and damnation or if he breathes love and tolerance. This is not something that is perculiar to Scientology. Perhaps only Buddism contains no writing such as “an eye for an eye” or “stone the unbeliever” or “disconnect from whoever we tell you to”. Thus you end up in all religions with factions, some soft, some hard. You have factions that are kind and loving and factions that are brutal and harsh- yet they look to the same source writings for their guidance. I believe very strongly that you could have a kind and loving Scientology if you had a leader that was not a vain and steriod-crazed psychopath as the top dog. I hope that one day there will be a branch of Scientology that looks at all the writings of L Ron Hubbard and says “wow, he must have been in shitty mood the day he wrote that” and just more or less disregards it as not in keeping with the overall tone of the activity. However the offical “Church” of Scientology is not that. It is lead by a man who wants a “cold steel chrome” attitude to his fellows. He likes to hit people with his little fists and appreciates others who like it too. It is very appropriate to give some special name to David Miscavige’s implementation of the Scientology philosophy. Having so much knowledge of David Miscaviges actions, plus so much knowledge of L Ron Hubbards writings gives a unique perspective. In my opinion, L Ron Hubbard wrote a sea of stuff about love and good will. He wrote probably 100 or perhaps even 200 pages of paranoid and brutal material on the subject of stamping out detractors. He wrote thousands of pages of love and goodwill to all men. His spoken words in terms of lectures are also thus balanced. There are a few lectures where he gets angry and advocates harsh treatment. (DM knows these verbatim and plays them over and over for staff). They are there within a body of thousands of lectures about love, goodwill, understanding and paranormal feel-good stuff. So if you were to try to extract the essense of this, distill the flavor or feel, you should come up with something that has a lot of love and very little harshness. That is not what David Miscavige and his supporters have found. They have searched and searched and found those 100 pages of harshness and ill temper and spent millions of dollars and built whole organizations (OSA) that do nothing but dramatize that ill temper as hard and fast as they can. To say that LRH was never ill tempered and mean is to say he was never a man, never human, never had a bad day. But if you look across ALL of his works, and just count pages of love and pages of hate you come up to 1000 to 1 ratio. Haters love to quote LRH when he was in a shitty mood. I have never seen a critic that says “I listened to 25 hours of lectures and in all that time I heard 12 minutes of harshness”. To a sicko like Davey Miscavige, those 12 minutes are everything. And since he has clawed his way to supremecy, so it is with all of Scientology in this day. But it was not always so, and will not always be so. Also, just to drop in my own personal axe, DM has not only accentuated the few nasty things that LRH wrote, but he has also MASSIVELY violated things that LRH did write- refusing refunds (a big no-no according to LRH), massive SP declares (Another big no-no), refusal of recourse (a huge no-no), demanding donations with no service in return (a massive no-no according to LRH), huge changes in technology ( A shoot him dead no no according to LRH)- I could go on and on. So yes, David Miscavige’s Scientology deserves its own name. And it deserves a gravestone as well. On that point, I think we can all agree.
“I believe very strongly that you could have a kind and loving Scientology if you had a leader that was not a vain and steriod-crazed psychopath as the top dog. I hope that one day there will be a branch of Scientology that looks at all the writings of L Ron Hubbard and says “wow, he must have been in shitty mood the day he wrote that” and just more or less disregards it as not in keeping with the overall tone of the activity.”
This is a totally valid point. Any two individuals can read the same sentence in a religious text, have no MUs whatsoever, and see two different things, depending on their overall temperament, or just their temperament that day.
So yes, there ARE possibilities that Scientology can be applied in a loving, and life-giving way.
So we agree there.
But when your calculus of the ratio of LRH’s writings only counts words and pages to find his intent for Scientology, then I have to make another point to you. And this point is generally overlooked.
It isn’t the number of pages he wrote, it is which pages and words will get you shot for not following them to the letter, and which pages and words do not matter to anyone if you violate them in the authority structure LRH set up?
For instance, The Creed of the Church of Scientology “What We of the Church Believe” contains recognitions of inalienable rights that the Church of Scientology supposedly believes, and by firm LRH policy the Creed must be hung on a wall that is the first wall a new person sees when they walk into any org or mission.
Yet if someone violates a point in the Creed of the Church of Scientology “What We of The Church Believe”, what punishments of hellfire did LRH set up for them in his structured hierarchy in the Church?
Yet the HCOPL on Suppressive Acts, which LRH wrote himself in 1966, say that going to the press about Scientology (speaking freely about your own opinions – in contradiction to the Creed), remaining connected to a squirrel group (although you supposedly have a right to your own group – in contradiction to the Creed) will get you expelled AND Fair-Gamed.
So which of the pages and writings did LRH really mean?
The rights-recognizing Creed on the front wall of ever org and mission?
Or the Fair-Gaming Suppressive Acts HCOPL?
Which is on the front wall of every org?
And which is buried in a big fat green volume that you only become aware of after you are totally entrenched as a Scientologist?
So I have to say that your calculus of numbers of pages LRH wrote is not a valid way to evaluate LRH’s intentions for Scientology. You have to look at the Awards and Penalties he set on the behaviors he wanted out of Scientologists with his Church hierarchy.
And you have to know about Operand Conditioning techniques and social coercion – that will tell you LRH’s real intentions for Scientology and Scientologists.
A brilliant view Roy…..Nothing to add but applause.
Alanzo wrote: “So which of the pages and writings did LRH really mean?
The rights-recognizing Creed on the front wall of ever org and mission?
Or the Fair-Gaming Suppressive Acts HCOPL?”
As on-the-money that Roy’s response above was, you hit it out of the park with this observation Alanzo. This is the exact conundrum that Scientologists need to confront, if there is going to be an honest and thorough reform.
I would further add to your observation though, Alanzo, that policy at one time was supposed to just apply to staff members and not necessarily the public (i.e. the general membership). At some unknown time (but clearly in full force by the 1980s), that demarcation point — where public were in one category with regard to Church policies, and staff were in another — was lost.
My view is that there was a sort of built-in “oh, everyone knows that doesn’t apply” to the general public through the 1960s and 70s, when the green (policy) volumes were not widely distributed and available. There were a number of these important “everyone knows” things that got lost when the old regime was replaced with the new one in the 1980s. Add in the loss of the balance that Mary Sue often added to the equation, the hyper-fundamentalism and psychopathy of Miscavige, and you have a perfect setup for the mess we have today.
And by the way, I’m not saying that certain policies by LRH should be continued and supported, just because they were possibly meant only for staff (and clearly by the 80s, I don’t think they were, even in LRH’s mind). I’m in favor of radically reforming the whole “Suppressive Person” witch hunt — and their mechanisms in policy — that exist in the RCS. And a number of other areas too, such as the hyper-focus on stats which also has seeds found in policy, sec checks, et al.
Any real reform must be honest about the whole thing: including not only retiring certain LRH policies, but creating other policies which don’t allow the same situations to recur. Unfortunately, I don’t know or expect this type of reform to ever take place, but this is what would be needed for any real reform to be meaningful and successful, imho.
I certainly swell up with pride reading you say that I “hit one out of the park”!
I wasn’t in Scientology in the 60’s or 70’s, so I don’t personally know about what public thought of policies, and which ones applied to them. But there is a guy named Robert Kaufmann who was in Scientology at that time, at Saint Hill where Ron was writing most of those policies, and he writes about their effect on public and staff at the time.
When Ron first issued the ethics tech, some of the penalties for liability and below were pretty draconian – having to wear dirty grey armbands, etc. Kaufmann describes what it was like to be a public back then.
The whole book is here for free:
I think this is one of the best books ever written on Scientology.
This is an interesting observation noted in the SA Blog: “While this goes on the staff and public are bombarded with successes in other areas which served to introvert staff even more in that they were just not making it happen in their area.”
This point of introversion goes hand in hand with invalidation/nullification with the enforced idea that they were not making it happen. Add to this the cold water buckets poured on the staff, as noted by Jillian, and the atmosphere of only shouting and fighting.
This is human abuse and, religion or not religion ‘practice’, is criminal.
I can attest to the stats of Mexico introducing an average of 1,300 people a week are a blatant falsehood. The Ideal Org is as empty as any other one in the planet.
And the so called leader gives another horrendous wrong why – Orgs are doing too little. Again invalidation/nullification. But by know we are aware that he can say anything to the sheep and they will believe it.
We will keep exposing the lies and abuses as we definitely do not agree with any of them. Thank you Mike.
Isn’t the sole purpose of the Joburg org for Davey to spending parishioners’ money flying to South Africa for vacation?
Oh, that Capt COB would actually be welcome anywhere. Even the top dogs in SA would be daunted; anyone would: lets be fair, he lives in another dimension, far above any of us. It might be fair to say that no-one anywhere, in the whole wide world, would dare invite the Capt to their table; he cuts to the quick and tells mean jokes, as anyone who has had a personal relationship with him will testify.
Roy Macgregor says
And Another from the South African Blog with is excellent is their examination of Radical Scientology’s expansion claim here regarding the making of auditors: http://backincomm.wordpress.com/2014/03/24/these-are-the-auditors/
OMG, just scanned the South African blog.
They actually brag about a mimeograph machine.
Oh wait, that is a target, a goal. Well then, good luck, aim high.
I guess a telex machine would be postulating too much.
Wouldn’t want to push your luck….
Don’t forget the ribbon for the typewriter.
Just Me says
Good Lord! I just read Brandy Harrison’s crib notes for her presentation at the African Ideal Org Convention three years ago. That girl is a few synapses short of an argument and a conclusion, isn’t she?
Your earlier piece may have been lighthearted, but in humor there is truth.
Absolutely! Without the humour, you are lost. At times, LRH came across as deadly serious, yet anyone who has had gains in Scientology will know, that was his target, that was the bulls-eye.