Something a bit different, but newsworthy and interesting.
Aaron Smith-Levin has just interviewed Jeff Carlson, the former ED of Buffalo Org and son-in-law of Elli Perkins who was murdered by her son. Though there has been extensive media coverage about this murder and how scientology contributed to the tragedy, Jeff has not spoken publicly about it before now. He decided to speak after watching The Aftermath.
Aaron provides an introduction to the video:
On Scientology & the Aftermath, Mike and Leah have consistently expressed their desire to not attack the beliefs of Scientology but rather the abuses and destructive behaviour within Scientology.
Something which I believe has become more and more clear throughout Season 2 of the show is that in many areas it is difficult to distinguish between the beliefs & the abuse; they are inextricably linked.
Arguably one of the most glaring examples of this is Scientology’s beliefs regarding psychiatry and the field of mental health in general.
Scientologists believe that psychiatry is the sole cause for any societal decline; the driving force behind all negative conditions we see in the world. Scientologists see psychiatry as nothing more than a tool to enslave and control populations.
As a direct result of such beliefs, Scientologists are expressly forbidden from seeking out any mental health treatment outside of the remedies available to them within Scientology. Those “remedies” are not based on any science or actual research. They are based on a blind faith that everything LRH ever wrote about the mind and spirit is true.
By definition, medical treatment for mental illness is completely out of reach for anyone within Scientology.
So what happens when people in Scientology develop mental illness? Numerous examples have shown us that terrible things happen.
Jeff Carlson agreed to speak with me about one of these terrible examples that occurred within his own family. He decided to speak out about this after watching the Aftermath episode featuring Elizabeth Gale discussing the suicide of her brother, Philip Gale, who had been born into Scientology and was denied treatment that would have likely saved his life.
Jeff’s family experienced a remarkably similar tragedy. What happened in Jeff’s family was reported in the media in 2003, but Jeff was still in Scientology back then and has never publicly discussed these events before. That is what we do here.
Denise A Rosin says
I just watched the interview with Jeff Carlson. Elli was a very close friend of my mother in law. I will never forget when we where told about what happened she waa devastated. My husband and I were getting ready to get married and Elli with the whole family were coming. To see this questions come to me for Jeff, do you or have you been to see Jeremy and are you in contact with Don and Danielle at all?
Stellar video Aaron! Awesome info and insights, and great rapport with Jeff.
Golden-Era Parachute says
I’ve known about this. I talked to other Scientologists about it, and they hadn’t even heard of it. Not surprising. Glad this went public, and Buffalo Org has annual protests because of this tragedy from what I’ve been told by locals.
Python Swoope says
She drank the Kool Aid …..and Paid The Price! The list of names becomes longer each day!
Shame on you. She didn’t deserve to be murdered
I’ve always noticed there is a huge “disconnect” between Scientology (“the church”) and CCHR, when it comes to mental health solutions.
CCHR is, or certainly should be, in the know with regards to legitimate alternative mental health treatments, considering the work that they do and the non-drug pioneers they have, at one time or another, affiliated themselves with or supported.
Typical church members, however, seem totally unaware, turning to “the tech” or vitamins (or both) for answers.
What use is CCHR if it can’t connect people up with legitimate programs and sources of support? I know staff numbers are declining rapidly but seriously…what do they actually do anymore? Is it now just another fundraising tool for the church?
This is a great interview, Aaron and Jeff!
Mike – thanks for posting this interview. Aaron thanks for this interview and Jeff thanks for participating.
A couple of months ago I was flipping the t.v. channels and came across this horrific story of the Perkins family on one of those investigative shows. I was in shock, had no idea. I still had many questions so thanks for filling in the blanks. Of course I have 50 other questions but I realize you can’t have a 3 hr. interview.
Aaron you are a great interviewer, probing, always asking the right questions. As an ex, old timer and trained auditor, I hate to use the jargon BUT your presence and “TR’s” are impeccable.
These vids are valuable and helpful, please keep making them – Aaron, Chris, Mike … everyone!
I just listened to this one and the one with Mike Laws. I just feel different. Feel more like myself, like maybe I could just… be OK again. Somehow hearing the easy banter, the truth, the stories, having it pulled apart and explained… normalized some of the stuff in my head.
I think I may be able to just allow myself to Be. Can’t explain it… but it’s so damn helpful.
And part of that helpfulness I know includes the idea that OTHERS are watching and listening too.
I wish I could convey how good these are.
Since I can’t go trotting off to therapy, these are fulfilling a bit of that need.
Thanks beyond measure.
Happy Texan says
Dearest Secretfornow, I’ve lurked here for years and have rarely commented. I feel compelled to reach out to you. Your comments touch me deeply. There are many here cheering you on so I’ll add my voice too. It is wonderful to hear you sound so hopeful.
This blog helped me peel my own personal onion on this so-called church and I am happy that you are finding hope and healing here. I know I have.
While we all know a few people who weren’t able to shed the scars from their time in scn, most do and find wonderful and fulfilling lives for themselves on the outside. Of course the risk is that you’ll leave friends and/or family in and no one can advise anyone else on what they should do but just the fact that you are here on Mike’s blog and reaching out to others is a clue that you’ve already taken the hardest step out. For me, that first step was a doozie.
I haven’t taken the opportunity to formally thank Mike for this blog, everything he has done to speak out and proving so much support for those who have left. Thank you Mike, you have helped more people than you know.
Happy Texan – yes, you said it perfectly, exactly what I want to convey to Secret – “This blog helped me peel my own personal onion on this so-called church and I am happy that you are finding hope and healing here. I know I have.”
And “…but just the fact that you are here on Mike’s blog and reaching out to others is a clue that you’ve already taken the hardest step out. For me, that first step was a doozie.” And a doozie for me also.
I’m still decompressing and yes, thanks Mike for giving us all a forum, a place to come to every day to chill.
HP…..your comment touched my heart. You are a lovely person as is secretfornow. Maintain that light inside you!
Happy Texan says
Thank you Ms.P & Teen. Yours are familiar names on this blog that I enjoy seeing ?
Thanks SO much, Texan. It’s a helluva onion. For me, the OUT was almost an instant… I’d say I went from devout to out in about a heartbeat, and it was stunning. It was just like I took a red pill. The cause was horrific, and the aftermath has been difficult. Near 40 years in, I feel like I’ve gills and I’m trying to breathe.
THIS blog – Mike always seems so Joe Cool – and Tony’s and now the Aaron/Mike/Chris vids, have done SO much to keep me sane in some ways, while I deal with the fallout of the Happened.
Something just switched off in the last couple vids and I pulled out of the death spiral I’ve been on since then. Nuttiness is scary.
I have no answers. But something awful switched off and I’ll just go with that.
I wonder if other people feel one of the aspects of relief I feel…while listening. There is this one “extra” aspect, knowing IT’s PUBLIC. That, for some reason is a big deal to me.
I feel like they’re talking with me, because I track with everything, I know this stuff and have lived it. But just..talking about it…like, right out in the open all normal and explaining all the time what things mean….
Holy ..I wonder if I would experience something similar if I just gave up clothes and went around naked all the time.
It feels that way. Like all the secrets and truths are just being shouted from the rooftops.
I’m a never-in, but your comments are both inspiring and intriguing. You explain the process of enlightenment and decompression so well. The no-clothes metaphor helped me understand … plus its sudden whimsy provided an unexpected chuckle.
I hope you continue to feel better. I suspect the more you get reacquainted with yourself, the more strength, talent and humor you’ll find.
Aaron Smith-Levin says
I absolutely love hearing that, thank you so much. That is why I do these videos.
Oh, you are so welcome.
In cult speak, I have blow down after blow down after blow down listening, and then just recently everything just shifted and I had a major stable win. I totally blew this total nuts/shattered valence and suddenly came into PT.
I don’t know how to say that in Wog. 🙂 But I just feel ..so… Me-ish. Like, I can almost see and feel the strength of before, only now and here without the wrongheaded ideas. Without having to be IN. 🙂
I was SO strong in Scn, and then it all shattered and it’s been a bit of a rough go. The mental stuff has been – – – difficult. I think OT VII is schizophrenic and can cause massive mental trauma.
Something lifted and I’m glad and I’m going to build on it and feed THAT and I’m going to keep listening and re-listening.
<3 <3 <3
Best to you and your sweet family.
But here’s an old favorite by Morris Albert, reworked so it can be dedicated to World Renowned Ecclesiastical Leader Mr. David Miscavige!
Captain, Sir – if you’re reading here:
This will create a Romantic Mood for those times when You be chillin’ with the Communicator With Benefits.
To the tune of “Feelings”:
Stealing, nothing more than stealing,
Conning all my people
With so many scams!
Teardrops, falling down on my face,
Tears of helpless laughter
At these stupid Clams!
Stealing, oh, oh, oh, stealing!
Oh, oh, oh, stealing!
Before they get wised-up to Me
I’ll get the Most I Can –
Stealing! ha ha ha stealing!
They’ll wish they never joined this cult!
They’ll never trust again!
There – you see, Sir? I just knew this would make you feel better! What’s that? Oh, you’re welcome, Sir. Anytime.
Aqua – LOL – you too funny – You have now ruined this song for me.
Sorry about that, Ms. P. I also used to like this song a lot, back in the day. But for some reason it turned into the go-to song for satire. We’ll share our loss together 🙂
A good followup to Thank You For Listening.
What happened to Jeremy? Is he still in jail/mental institution? Is the rest of family still in the Buffalo org?
Jaye R says
I wondered about Jeremy et al as well.
Heartbreaking! I know from experience if someone, no matter how crazy, doesn’t want treatment, unless it can be proven they are a physical threat to themselves or others, there’s little recourse for family. The story might have ended the same way if she had tried to get him committed. But at least there might have been a chance. And how horrible to have that conflict on top of watching her son deteriorate! Awful.
Mary Kahn says
Aaron, I love your interviews!
I have been waiting and waiting for someone to address this, either on the show on here on the blog. I remember when this happened and the people I was in contact with at the time who knew Elli personally were grief-stricken and shocked. I had thought Mike and Leah would address it, but then again, only people who are actually coming forward are the subject of interviews, so that answered my question as to why it hadn’t come up yet. But Jeff (Carlson) is/was family, and it is good to hear him talk about it and get a more complete picture of the events. It is shockingly sad that this happened. The remote possibility that Jeremy could have been diagnosed and treated (albeit with psych drugs) will never be answered. I believe that even after Jeremy began meds following his being institutionalized, he feels he would not have committed this awful crime.
Question for those who are “policy experts”: Is there something in LRH’s writings about a person who may be so far gone that they would need “sedatives” or is this hearsay? If this is somewhat true – could this have been applied in Jeremy’s case? IDK – grasping at straws, I guess, but Jeff’s interview answers a lot of questions.
Harpoona Frittata says
“Is there something in LRH’s writings about a person who may be so far gone that they would need “sedatives” or is this hearsay? ”
Well, since Elron famously noted that what’s true is what a person has directly observed for themselves, the fact that Elron died with a butt full of Vistaril in his system, speaks much louder than words there, imo.
Lol!! Well said..
Treating Schizophrenia with vitamins??? I used to work for the NY State psychiatric hospital system. I’ve seen what good treatment can do for depression, bipolar disorders and schizophrenia. Some people do get actual cures, most just get remission and a life long regime of drugs and talk therapy. Some disorders just can’t be cured, yet.
The use of Clozaril has done wonders for those who can tolerate it. That alone proves that some psychiatric disorders are chemical based. Can the purif fix that?
Jeremy Perkins spent 15 years or so in a state run psychiatric hospital, he is now in a sort of half way home that is closely monitored. He may never be cured, but he may find a life that suits him. We can only hope.
$cientology would just declare him an illegal pc and ban him from any $cieno activities. So much for the ‘manual of the human mind’.
There “has” been some limited success in treating schizophrenia with thyroid (T3) but it’s unfortunately not all the time. Sadly, there is no cure, as you’ve mentioned, especially for the most severe type of paranoid schizophrenia, which is what I believe Jeremy was diagnosed with. The other sad thing is that the efficacy of these drugs can change in a person over time, so that the patient has to move on to a new drug after the former one stops working.
In the old days, schizophrenics who were dangerous to themselves or others were put in asylums, isolated and chained.
.My friend’s son became schizophrenic at 17.
Shortly after he was first incarcerated in a home,( long story) his mother obtained his release and soon after that I was around when he had an episode.
His whole face changed, he was not himself. Even his voice got deeper, hoarser, it was not his normal voice but a stranger’s. He was filled with incoherent hate, like there was a demon in there -an actual demon in this child, a boy I’d known from the age of 8.
Given a shot of something he calmed down but it was a limp, not there kind of stillness wherein he was utterly slack, his eyes vacant, staring at nothing. From being afraid I went to being overcome with pity for him.
His was and still is an extreme case. He’s been in various homes for years and I would imagine on many different drugs. He’s a middle aged man now. If not drugs for his type of mental illness, then what – leg and arm chains, like in the Victorian novels?
When he was not himself, it was frightening, and I don’t scare easily. I did pick up that he could hurt or kill me, or somebody, when in the grip of whatever that was.
Then, after the drug, it was just his body there, and nothing, really, looking out of his eyes – no one there anymore. And that was awful too, in another way.
Scientology doesn’t have the answers to such problems, nor, obviously, do I.
Let me jump in and say I have a good friend who is severely schizophrenic and has to take some pretty strong anti-psychotic meds. He is able to hold a job, have a happy marriage and plays a mean dixieland trumpet. He sometimes “goes off” and has to be hospitalized for a couple of days, but those incidents have become rarer. He also gets good psychiatric monitoring.
He occasionally has “visions.” If he ever started hearing about “body thetans,” Xenu, the “whole track” and all the rest of the scientology nonsense, I think it would kill him; seriously. Not only is scientology useless for treating mental illness, it’s downright dangerous.
Agreed on all, bixntram. New meds have come out since this person became schizophrenic. He was diagnosed as an extreme case and a danger to himself and others if/or when not on medication. He’s never had a job. His entire adult life has been spent in institutions. His mother loves him very much and has always been very much present in his life. And I completely agree that Scientology is both useless and dangerous in the treatment of mental illness.
Bonnie Johnson says
Pretty clear to me why Scientology doesn’t seek help for psychotic people outside and that’s because of LRH.
I seem to recall reading something written by LRH when he was introducing Dianetics, perhaps in Amazing Stories , something like “Dianetics is not for the truly insane; that is the realm of Psychiatry.”
Obviously this was when he hoped to partner with psychiatry, before they rejected him. Too bad he changed his mind about that. So much harm has come from that decision.
Wow in advance. Just this intro knocks it out of the park. Thank you to Aaron for all that you’re doing. I’ve been listening to the youtube vids by Aaron, Chris and Aaron and Mike. There is an amazing relief to hear the words, concepts and truths spoken out loud and know that this is broadly available to everyone on the internet and that people are listening.
These videos help in so many ways, on a personal level to someone like me, relief for those having the courage to speak out and tell all, and more importantly and more broadly, the expose of truth that can lead to the walls coming down forever.
I’ve been so massively thankful to you guys and have been wanting to really somehow thank you all for doing the vids – they add steel to my spine and give relief and hope.
The story of Rex Fowler would be good to broadly expose as well.
Thankyou so much Jeff Carlson!
This is so devastating, to me, it proves Keeping Scientology Working (RTC’s job) is wrong.
Hubbard’s despair of failure that Hubbard admitted to Sarge Pfauth as told in the “Going Clear….” book final pages and in the snippets of that interview which are in the “GOing Clear….” DVD movie for viewing, are the most important final L. Ron Hubbard “source briefing” a Scientologist needs to think long about.
Hubbard admitted failure. He admitted, there to Sarge, at Creston, what LRH could NOT admit in Keeping Scientology Working.
The RTC job is Keeping Scientology Working.
Hubbard failed to let this huge admission of despair and failure, to be shared.
It needs to be a blockbuster revelation. Somehow, the Sarge and Wright interview, and all the details of L. Ron Hubbard’s FINAL despair needs to be shared and pierce into the minds of the Scientologist trapped in Hubbard’s “Keeping Scientology Working”.
Hubbard had suicidal squirreling orders to Sarge, which need be absorbed by the Scientologists.
Hubbard failed at his own medicine. “Going Clear….” final pages interview with Sarge just is such vital information to get out and be absorbed.
Hubbard’s entrenched anti-psychiatry prejudices, and Hubbard’s Guardian’s Office/Office of Special Affairs Intel/PR spin-the-story tactics “won” by getting psychiatry to back down, and stop countering SCientology and Hubbard’s quackery.
Left to stew in Scientology’s/Hubbard’s anti psychiatry prejudices turned into policy, and the result is society backs off.
Only the media, that’s the way I saw it, when I started speaking out in 2004, only the media is the societal group that is still countering Scientology/Hubbard’s deadly abuses and nuttiness.
But it’s so important to widely expose Hubbard’s final despair and thoughts of failure.
You are on the right analytical path here, IMO.
What I have discovered is that Hubbard was really a very private person who flushed out a lot of occult ideas early on in his life. He was immersed in the 19th century notion that the occult was superior to science. He justified his lack of empirical research by relying on Theosophy and Blavatsky.
He gave no credit to these people but in reality they formed his personality.
Hubbard then developed a lot of “modern” ideas which he passed to his followers. He was convinced that he had control of mental health and barred meditation and psychiatry. It is not surprising to me that he had thoughts of suicide and ended in failure. All of his life rested on the weakest notions of the occult. In truth Hubbard was a failure at science and the Occult and the esoteric truth.
If one looks only at the “transactional” nature of Scientology and/or its deadly abuses, the entire picture gets fully covered in emotion. The beliefs of Scientology only apply to personal detachment from the subject. These beliefs are not subject to fair debate in public forum since they are mostly analytical in nature.
Now to me Hubbard was nothing more than a fat security guard who served for a time as an adjunct of the LAPD. So I gave $120,000 to one who made $2.50 an hour and who read a few occult books. I learned the hard way.
I’d agree George & Chuck, and also his KSW was developed from reading Le Bon’s works on the creation of a “crowd” coupled with what you said. “The crowd” is a blueprint for creating a cult although that was not Le Bon’s intent, it was to recognize a cult. Hilter read Le Bon.
It’s 1984 as well.
In the end, we were “useful idiots” I’m sorry to say.
Thanks for the reference to Le Bon. I’ll check it out.
To: The President of the United States
Members of Congress
. The Attorney General’s Office
CSW (Completed Staff Work)
Situation: Scientology has sunk into new levels of depredation and its abuses and practices need to be stopped.
Data: References (partial list): All episodes of Scientology and the Aftermath, The Tampa Bay Times Truth Rundown Series and the featured video on this blog.
Solution: Revoke all tax exemption for the Church of Scientology, indict David Miscavige on criminal charges and return stolen funds to Church parishioners.
This is OK.
Dave Fagen says
Jeff, if you’re reading this, and are willing, could you please give us any information on how Danielle is doing these days, if you know?
Jeffrey Carlson says
Dave, sorry but Danielle and I divorced over 11 years ago and I have no contact with here anymore.
Dave Fagen says
I thought that probably was the case, but was wondering if you still somehow knew, even though I did understand that the chances of that were pretty low. Thanks for answering.
Hey Jeff – what’s the name of your youtube channel. I loved this vid and would like to check out yours. Btw I’d definitely watch you and Jeff review the Path!
Robin S. says
In honor of his memory, Elizabeth Gale’s brother was Philip Gale (not Jeremy).
To be a scientologist means you have to agree to a whole lot of insanity. Denying mental health treatments to those who need it is one of the cruelest beliefs enforced by the “church”.
Old Surfer Dude says
Amen to that.
They should be held liable.
Well, my story is that my wife was on staff (won’t say where, we still have family…) and had a psychotic break some years ago, literally on org premises. She has never been the same since. For 10 years we persisted with scn solutions, which included many, many PAB 6s. I know that’s technical for many, but it consists of peace and quiet, doing physical work and exercise. Utterly useless, but according to the org they never worked as they ought to only because my wife was ‘out-ethics’. The woman was not herself, for Christ’s sake! That led to a looong and expensive trip to ANZO for auditing that included the famous Introspection rundown.
She came out of all that considerably worse than she went in. Frankly, a zombie. She remained on staff as a completely useless staff member for another 10 years, with ethics being rammed down her throat and mine. I was regarded as being equally to blame because “it happened on my watch”. Not the org’s you’ll note, despite her being there 16 hours a day. I got onto auditing lines during this time, primarily to try handle her situation (vicariously) and you can imagine the make-wrong I endured as my auditing made absolutely no difference. This situation, and the lack of results from scn, resulted in me and my wife leaving scn.
I was of course still vehemently anti-psychiatry, and it took several more years to finally (and painfully, as it still went against my beliefs at the time) to search out a solution through psychiatry. She’s now diagnosed bipolar and been on medication about five years, and it has made a small improvement – but at least it is an improvement even if a major disappointment. But in contrast, scn had made her worse. I would still look for a solution through psychiatry, and based on some of the comments here can see the solution is probably to add some psychoanalysis to the mix, which is currently missing. My wife remains rooted in the scn mindframe, however, and misses no opportunity to stop taking her medication.
Where present-day Scientology is failing today is in not utilizing its own technology. Hubbard said to manage CONTROL, one must START-CHANGE-STOP. Scientology is so fixated on a mindset, albeit LRH’s, that they are unable to assess where things can be improved, therefore nothing changes.
The abuses ARE part of the body of work produced by Hubtard. Ergo, those who promote scamology & Hubtard are criminal.
Agreed. It’s crazy how the CO$ institutionalizes abuser behavior, eg, gaslighting, projecting, selfishness, aggressive lack of compassion…
This below is from May 2017
The field of mental health still has some barbaric practices, however unlike Scientology they have made advances and there are many excellent therapists out there that get results. Hubbards massive generality about Psychs is damning. And his pipe dream that Scientology always works when applied correctly is pure science fiction. As a result we have stories like this and like a Michael and Devona Lewis’s son.
Mary Kahn says
The greatest message of Season Two of Aftermath is that the belief system of the church and the oppressive way it drives its belief system home to its members is that it leads good people to do bad things and/or prevents good people from doing the right thing. Ellie should have and probably would have sent her son to get psychiatric help if it were not for the threat of losing the right to do any more Bridge in scientology. Did the church cause the murder of Ellie or the psychotic break and mental illness of her son? No. But it prevented the right thing from being done that could have helped him and prevented an unthinkable situation. This fear lead to murder and has lead to suicides, and deaths of many others.
Whatever the narrative is, it is the threat coming from the church of scientology and the instilled fear that causes or contributes to so many abuses. The belief system of this church is a “prison of belief” system that dictates the huge spectrum of abuses that the church causes, instigates or contributes to.
Mary – a great post and when you state, “Ellie should have and probably would have sent her son to get psychiatric help if it were not for the threat of losing the right to do any more Bridge in scientology.” Yes agreed and makes my blood curdle.
Here we have yet again another mother who’s BRIDGE was more important than her child. Like all the others we are learning about on Aftermath.
Sad state of affairs.
Excellent summation, Mary.
The Jehovas Witnesses, and I’m not picking on them, simply pointing something out – have it in their doctrine not to accept blood transfusions. I believe that the courts have ruled on several cases. Hospitals and doctors have taken the JW’s to court on the issue of it being life saving interventions. I wonder if the same principle can be applied to mental health. Perhaps the non Scientologist members of a person could appeal to the courts on those grounds.
This would be a tough road to plow, Colleen, considering mental health treatment is considered “voluntary” unless it can be proven that an individual is a threat to self and/or others. The courts can and do help with mandating evaluations. Without a court order, the family, therapist, priest, clergy, teacher etc. can request an officer (PET team) to determine if an evaluation (5150 mandatory hold for 72 hours) can be done and are done more frequently thrn in the past.
I’ve treated patients who were released after 72hrs who should never have been simply because they responded “I don’t have thoughts of suicide” when they actually did. 72 hours is not enough time to evaluate, prescribe, and monitor efficacy of a change in drug dosage or an introduction of new psychotropic medications. I had one patient actually answer that she had thoughts, means, and plans of suicide during an exit interview and they released her anyway. As you can guess, she went right back in. All bets are off, and the law is behind you, if life threatening to self and/or others.
In my clinical opinion, the problem is not psychotropic medications..one variable is the lack of follow-up and aftercare for those whom have been prescribed these types of medications. I fervently believe that medication is not the sole answer but only a part of a total wellness plan needed for stabilization. This is where the mental health field has failed, IMHO.
Thank you for your reply. The best scenario then is to get a court order. I think the chances of continuing with prescribed medication increases if the person in question is not in contact with scn members of his/her family. And continuing medication is a significant problem with just about all persons with mental illness. They feel better and they stop taking it.
Since the courts have already established the road in other cases, the precedent has been set. It might not be such a hard road. But this is where, non scn family members come in.
People who have family within the church should do what the church does when members want to leave.
If the church can act aggressively and have a blowout, why cant people on the outside.
Kidnap them and decode them.
If its allowed for drug interventions, surely outsiders can do something similar, but within the law?
Interested Party says
I believe your heart is in the right place but that kind of involuntary treatment is the reason for criticizing Scientology. Doing the same to them isn’t likely to create more understanding.
Interested Party says
I never said this shitbag!
Jessica Baker says
There are now more safer routes that can be taken instead of just blood transfusions and not just jw are taking the steps to safeguard themselves
Jeffrey Carlson says
Thank you for putting this up on your blog Mike. This was not easy for me to do but because of the show you and Leah are doing you gave the courage share this story.
Gail Shourds says
I wanted to say thank you for sharing such a heartbreaking story that your family went through. I hope this will help someone else find the help they need and also hope that people will realize that the COS holds no support or assistance for members who desperately need professional help. God bless you.
Canadian Girl says
I hope you find peace ?
Happy Texan says
Thank you Jeffrey for sharing your story. It is so powerful. Another nail in the soon to be coffin of the CofS.
Jeffrey – thank you for sharing your story.
Courageous is exactly what you are, Jeff. Thank you for sharing and I’m so sorry for the tragedies your family has experienced.
Computer Guy says
WOW! :O – $cientology – contributing to family tragedies since 1950.
If it is not cruel and inhumane….it ISN’T $cientology!
Bruce Ploetz says
Dianetics started ripping up families in 1950 but Hubbard was no slouch at it before then. Bigamy, seduced his best friend’s girl friend and ran off with their money, kidnapped his own daughter and threatened to kill her to influence his wife, abandoned another wife with children, refusing to support them, all these events happened before he “invented” Scientology.
Geesh…when you wrap it all up like this in one paragraph…..you can really see the mental health issues, you know?
Thanks for bringing this up, Bruce. Hubbard was one evil son of a bitch. Upon hearing that his son, Quentin had committed suicide, the first words out of his mouth were: “The fucking idiot! Look what he’s done to me.” That about says it all for me.
Old Surfer Dude says
You got that right! And, what a great tag line! Very clever and TRUE.