I had put up an earlier report showing the Las Vegas org parking lot with ONE car taken at 7pm on Saturday. That seemed a bit unfair as orgs shut their doors at 6pm on Saturday apparently and you couldn’t expect anyone to be there “after hours” just because they like the place.
So, I asked if someone could swing by and take some new shots during the week and during peak production hours.
Special Correspondent Mark Fisher obliged and sent in these photos as well as a good write up to put this in perspective. Mark Fisher is an old time management person — a trained evaluator, in fact he was in AVC authorizing evals as to purity of form and subsequently became “Corporate Liaison” which was the cut-out for Miscavige when he was “COB ASI” and theoretically (at least on paper) was not controling the church (hah…)
He knows of which he speaks (writes) and his views are interesting.
I went out to the Las Vegas Ideal Organization again this week during a weekday and took photos outside to see how many cars were there. This Las Vegas Ideal Org was opened by David Miscavige himself 2 or 3 years ago to great fanfare!!! Millions of dollars was spent to buy this location and then renovate it into Miscavige’s image of what an Ideal Org is.
These were taken at 4:00 PM in the afternoon on a Thursday. The parking lot is huge and I counted a total of 25 cars in the lot. (Ed note — there is no viable public transportation so the 25 cars represent the total staff and public at the org)
The location of the Las Vegas Org is one of the worst locations in the city to have an Org. It is located down a side street in one of the oldest parts of town and if you tried to give a lifelong resident of Las Vegas directions to find it, they would have trouble. Thank goodness there now is GPS systems that will take you there!
In order to properly evaluate a given situation, according to the Data Series written by L.Ron Hubbard, you have to have an “Ideal Scene” to compare it to.
Back in the early 1980’s and LRH was still alive, someone asked him what he wanted for his birthday. He supposedly stated that he wanted all Scientology Organizations to be “The Size of Old Saint Hill”, the last organization that he ran as Executive Director in the 1960s and was considered the model size of an expanding and prosperous Scientology organization.
Management in the 1980s put together the production statistics of Old Saint Hill and published them in a booklet that was sent to all Organizations so that they could compare their current production against the production expected at Old Saint Hill.
Here is a chart from that booklet listing out the key statistics.
Since the main production concentration of any organization in Scientology is Auditing (counseling) of Scientology Public and the training of future Auditors in the Scientology Academy, let’s take a look at those statistics.
Old Saint Hill was delivering over 1,000 hours a week of Auditing. If you had each Auditor delivering 5 hours of processing a day, 5 days a week (leaving some time for their own study and administrative work) you would need a minimum of 40 full time Auditors on Staff. It would then take approximately another 20-25 other technical staff to support that production (Case Supervisors, Tech Services and Qualifications Division personnel).
Since an Ideal Organization according to LRH policy has 2 Technical Personnel to every 1 Administrative Personnel, you are looking at a minimum of another 35-40 people on Staff working as Executives, Registrars, Human Resources, Book Sellers, Treasury personnel and Public Division personnel.
This would give you a minimum of 100 people on Staff in order to deliver to the Scientology Public. Based on the booklet number of Gross Income divided by Staff – Old Saint Hill had 250 people on staff.
And how many Public would be in the Organization on a given day in an Org the size of Old Saint Hill? Based on the chart, Old Saint Hill produced 136 NEW student and pc starts per week – 544 a month. And that is just new public. It doesn’t count the existing public getting sessions or training each week.
An Ideal Organization would have approximately 750-1000 people there throughout the day.
Now compare those numbers to the photos of the Las Vegas Ideal Organization? 25 cars? There is no Public Transportation nearby to bring people to this location.
If this place was even a Quarter of the size of old Saint Hill, their parking lot would not only be full, the staff and public would be parking all along the streets leading to the place.
Seem impossible? Talk to any veteran Scientologists or former Scientologists who were around the Organizations prior to 1986 when LRH died. Scientology Organizations were booming and expanding like never before. Led by veteran and experienced Executives both in the Sea Org and out. Organizations were beehives of activity.
And I’m not just talking about the Flag Land Base (which was booming after the release of NOTS) or the Big Blue Complex in LA. Some of the largest organizations in the world were located in Orange County and the San Fernando Valley of California. Miami and Washington DC were huge organizations at that time. Now they are pretty buildings that are empty in comparison.
In Europe, Guillaume Lesevre was the Commanding Officer for Europe and was opening up new missions and Organizations all across the continent. Italy was booming at the time. The same was happening in Mexico and Latin America.
As has been pointed out on this blog again and again, the definition of an Ideal Org was changed by David Miscavige from “the Size of Old Saint Hill” to “a Real Estate Investment with money “donated” by an every decreasing in size Scientology Public.” Miscavige can then crow about his new empty palaces at his annual televised events.
Like a Hollywood movie set, it is all smoke and mirrors and a façade meant to keep the charade going and bilk as much cash as possible from the following flock of sheep.
Denver “ideal” org
Another Special Correspondent happened to be in Denver on Sunday. It was “Open House” at the Denver “ideal” org on Sunday.
Here’s how it looked (obviously no Rockies game at the stadium that day)….
About 8 cars including the old “VM Van” that all orgs were forced to purchase and the vast majority are inoperational as the orgs cannot afford to maintain them (good luck on maintaining a huge, marble encrusted, overlit building).
Idle Orgs is the perfect name for this brilliant “COB strategy”…
Thoughtful wrote:
“LRH” is a crashing MU.
Now that this term “LRH” has been cleared for you, apply some logic and judgement to it:
Logic 8 says: A datum can be evaluated only by a datum of comparable magnitude.
I assume that you are saying that with all of LRH’s faults, he is still a genuine spiritual leader.
Fine.
Now apply Logic 8 to LRH and compare him to other examples of genuine spiritual leaders.
The Dalai Lama
Ghandi
Name a few of your favorites and compare them to LRH.
Ask questions like “Do genuine spiritual leaders lie to their followers in the magnitude and type of lies that LRH did?”
Compare and contrast, etc.
You must be able to use judgement on the cleared concept, in its proper context, once the concept has been cleared. Clearing the term is only the first step to thinking about things in a logically consistent and sustainable way.
Alanzo
Excellent analysis Steve. I hadn’t thought of that before.
LRH also was another thing.
LRH was a man.
Just like everyone else. We all have good and bad in us. We all have out ethics and good actions within us to varying degrees.
He was no perfect person. Middle ground is the way to go. While I hate the out ethics and bad actions and lies he was responsible for, I also find it impossible to disregard the positive things that I learned and the personal gains that I made through training and processing. I just read with a more critical eye.
I definitely remember what it was like with orgs being a friendly place and orgs bursting at the seams. Back then it was fun just to hang out in virtually any org. No reg would bother you. You could just hang out and visit. Chat with Clears or OTs.
It occurred to me, Mark, while reading your write up that DM has simply put in his own “ideal scene.” Consider the Int base or any place cornCOB inhabits. What do you have? A cavernous (beautifully UGLY) multi-million dollar building that is virtually empty except for 4 or 5 robotic degraded beings. That IS his “ideal scene” that apparently he thinks everyone wants.
I started a restudy of the Solo Course materials today, because I intend to get moving on the Bridge again. Very interesting to read KSW after reading Larry Wright’s book and even better: Bare Faced Messiah by Russell Miller. These books are utterly one-sided because they totally ignore any rightness in the tech, any value of auditing or training… however they are invaluable in that they shed light on LRH’s own hidden track of horrific and appalling out ethics, in the wake of which floated the wreckage of broken lives.
There is no substitute for total transparency, else nobody really can understand who or what LRH was — how he wasted thousands of dollars in the early orgs, stole from people left and right, betrayed trust, cheated on his wives, and so forth on up the track, even while he was developing auditing and breakthroughs like the Data Series. Once you know the truth about LRH — not only the good he did, but the bad — then you can start to understand who and what he actually was. THEN when you read KSW, it really becomes amazing because you can see the lies, the missed withholds, the crazy, the wrong, and also the rightness there. As Marty originally pointed out, it’s the middle path that is the right path. Scientology was neither all good nor all bad. Ditto with LRH — he was definitely not all good by a long, long stretch. And unless a person knows both sides, he really doesn’t know LRH at all. And this his “understanding” is built on unreality.
I have another name for “understanding” built on unreality. I call it PTSness. LRH was very suppressive to many people, and even to his own movement. It would be correct to have people naming him as a PTS item, because he could be quite cruel.
Eventually we will have to pick up all the shattered pieces of Scientology because the CoS is never going to do it. They can’t. They veered off the edge, went into the abyss and lost their minds. And their souls. LRH operated on a number of wrong whys that stand out clear as day in KSW. Too bad for all of us no one was ever able to get his ethics in.
Anyway, one of the first issues on the Solo course checksheet (from 1982) is a little issue called “Misunderstood Words and Cycles of Action.” The issue explains how misunderstood words stop cycles of action, prevent production, even prevent perception. The can lead to total organize (DM) and also to irrational demands to only produce (also DM), and in this issue LRH is really talking about Crashing MUs.
Have you ever tried to point out the value of something in Scientology to someone who was unable to see any value there? Perhaps that’s an example of a Crashing MU preventing perception. But what might be the Crashing MU?
As I mentioned, without knowing LRH’s track of overt acts — that he was violent with his first two wives (just like DM), that he went to the most extravagant lengths to defame people he feared as rivals or that he feared might expose his own out ethics, etc, — no person really knows who or what LRH was. Without knowing that LRH also instilled in Scientology the whole incorrectly included militant policy (evil purposes) that “never forgets” and “always evens the score” with critics… then a no person really understands what Scientology is.
So here are two huge Crashing MUs blocking virtually everyone since the earliest days: “LRH” and “Scientology”. These are both key words associated with the subject. And they are Crashing MUs. And if you want, you can add “Dianetics” too since LRH was busy declaring people squirrels, while engaging in the most insane out ethics imaginable. Example: with a national bestseller and thousands of people looking up to LRH as the man with the solution to planet earth, LRH was a rock star. And like any rock star or US president, he was sleeping with so many women it wasn’t funny.
Before you decide that LRH was all bad, watch the videos by Ken Uquart who knew LRH possibly better than any man living. See what he says about LRH, because he knew both sides. LRH was not a sociopath, but he was out ethics. And anyone who tried to get his ethics in got shit canned by LRH’s Gestapo tactics.
“LRH” is a crashing MU.
Yes, I very much am “the same way.” Thanks, Mark, for your balanced comment. To reinforce the point, I do consider the Data Series Evaluator’s Course a treasure received.
Mike none of my comments are “going in’ the system
I might have figured out the problem. If you post a long one it doesn’t go. So I’ll try posting shorter ones.
I took photos of Mountain View and Los Gatos last Wednesday but the card reader to my computer wiped the disk instead of downloading the photos. So, you can believe it or not as you choose. So, I was at Mountain View at 5 pm. This is in an industrial park area and has zero foot traffic. It’s sandwiched between two computer type companies. MV has an upside down L shaped parking lot. I counted 16 cars in the side lot and then walked through their corporate neighbors and took pictures of the back lot. It had 7 cars, including the VM van. I went back at 7:30. There was one less car. I did get some strange looks from all the people walking around the campus neighbors as I carried my camera to the Scientology building. There where about 6 groups of people walking around the corporate campus building discussing work as I passed by to take pictures of the parking lot. I didn’t see a single soul at the Org.
Then I went to Los Gatos at about 7 pm. At least the area surrounding the Org is busier than Mountain View. I saw two staff members smoking outside and one in the window of the second floor. As for cars, it had more cars than MV. I’d estimate about 25 – 30 cars. Very few cars, perhaps 6 -8, where parked in the lot where the dedication ceremony was held. The rest where on the other side of the building. However, there’s an apartment building across the street and part of the lot looks like it’s shared with two other small building, although one is for lease. I was going to count them from the pictures as I took them as I drove by but that didn’t work out the way I’d planned. I’ll stick with my initial estimate of about 30 cars on the high side.
I’ll try to go by again. I also go by SF Org and Sacramento Org fairly frequently so I’ll give them a shot.
Thanks for all the comments here from everyone. Regarding the debate about the Data Series, I was happy to reread that Data Series Issue on Sanity that was posted. It reminded me of how much I did learn studying the Data Series and how it made me a critical thinker.
I don’t know where LRH got the Data Series from, but it doesn’t matter to me. I find lots of truth in there that I have been able to apply to my life. I also see the contradictions in the man. Here he is talking about the Fixed Idea and how it can ruin any sort of objective evaluation of a situation or scene and he himself (LRH) was definitely full of fixed ideas himself. Being away from the control of the Scientology group allows you to take an honest look at what was right and what was wrong.
LRH was by no means perfect. None of us are. But I still cannot deny the gains that I personally made through the knowledge I gained through processing and training. I am sure many of you are the same way.
Worsel,
Excellent point!
Greta
Excellent responses to Alonzo from Mike and Lordburg and others.
In order to unstick a person from the period of track or incident they are stuck in when they are 5, 10, or 20 years after the incident or longer still fixated on it and still railing against it and about it and trying to gather converts to their fixed idea, one would look for and handle Out Lists, Wrong Items, Injustices, MU’s in earlier similar religions or subjects, failed purposes, failed help, MWH, and many other things.
Some LRH references on this are CS Series 44 and The Book of Case Remedies. But to some people, just reading those references would make them wrong and by all means, they absolutely HAVE to be right! So of course they wouldn’t read those references, much less ever pick up the cans for a session to correct these case outnesses, injustices, failed purposes, out lists, etc.
I think an Ideal Leaving Scientology program would include doing just that: have a free ARCX Session or two or three to handle all the out ruds, injustices, wrong items and other things mentioned above. That way with the charge moved out of the way, the person can now move forward with their life unburdened of the charge and thus more able to create their life with more free theta and more attention units at his/her disposal. No more being stuck on the time track.
I would be willing to do some ARCX sessions and I”m sure many other Indie auditors would do it also just to help clean up the mess left by DM and his minions. Scientology as LRH wrote it does have the ttech to correct itself. But people need to be willing tto pick up the cans and want the help for this to happen.
Cindy wrote:
“In order to unstick a person from the period of track or incident they are stuck in when they are 5, 10, or 20 years after the incident or longer still fixated on it and still railing against it and about it and trying to gather converts to their fixed idea, one would look for and handle Out Lists, Wrong Items, Injustices, MU’s in earlier similar religions or subjects, failed purposes, failed help, MWH, and many other things.”
I recognize your compassion and care for me here in wanting to help me to see how it is my “case” that makes me have the ideas that I have about Scientology and L Ron Hubbard.
But can you recognize that to reduce my ideas to “case”, and thereby label them insane, is a technique you may be using to avoid confronting the issues I raise about Scientology which may make you feel uncomfortable because they challenge your stable data?
I provide my reasoning, and the evidence which supports it, for almost every point I make here on Mike’s blog. But you have to ignore that reasoning and avoid that evidence in order to keep believing that with just a little auditing, I won’t be “dramatizing my case” in that way any more.
Facts are facts, Cindy. No auditing can make them go away.
I’m not insulted that you are basically calling me insane. It’s how you have been taught to handle ideas and people that question Scientology.
I’m just wondering if you can address the points I make directly, as well as my reasoning and my evidence, rather than trying to audit them away.
Can you?
Alanzo
Who needs a terminal when you can just dub in both sides of the communication?
Cindy wrote:
Who needs a terminal when you can just dub in both sides of the communication?
I hope that I understand your reply to me correctly. I think what you are saying is that I am imagining things you said which you did not say.
If that is so, please clarify.
I swear to God that I will do my best to duplicate and to understand what you say – even if I disagree with it.
Alanzo
A former friend, who was head of the OTC in Vegas at the time it went Ideal, said that many big donors such as Larry Perna, made promises of large donations for the Ideal Org and then never made the checks and promises good. They had such trouble just getting the money collected that was promised. I was told that the church stepped in and ponied up some of the money for Vegas because “it was so vital to planetary clearing that we have an Ideal Org in Las Vegas.”
I expect there are more never-ins here than you imagine, Lordberg. Mike does an excellent job allowing open debate and calling people when they go too far. That and Mike’s biting humor make this my favorite blog.
Thanks for your defense here, 4Chan –
The ideology of Scientology does not allow for it to be even discussed on open forums, let alone questioned and scrutinized, as Mike Rinder is allowing me to do here on his blog. (Ref. PAB 37 A Manual on Dissemination)
Lordburg12 is only trying to be “ethical” by trying to silence me here because of what I have to say about Scientology and L Ron Hubbard.
Because of these teachings from L Ron Hubbard, Mike actually risks losing readers because he allows me to post my viewpoints here. This is a testament to Mike Rinder’s considerable social courage and to his intellectual honesty. I can only hope that Mike’s readers have the confront to face what I have to say and to scrutinize it themselves with as much logic and reason as they can muster.
To see that Mike Rinder, the former head of OSA, has turned out to be kind of guy he is has been one of the most astonishing experiences I have had in my recent life. As a former target of OSA myself, I was sure that Mike Rinder MUST be one of the most pinheaded fanatics that Scientology has ever produced.
To see and to experience Mike Rinder’s actual tolerance, his intelligence, his curiosity, his sense of humor, and his humble honesty has given me hope that there is redemption for all of us after Scientology.
Alanzo
Thanks Alonzo. Very kind of you. As you know, I try to keep a balance between offending and educating and catering to a specific public and not acting like that to which I object so strongly. It’s not always easy and I don’t always do it right, but that’s what I am aiming for. I appreciate the fact that you understand. And I appreciate your willingness to communicate. Sometimes you frustrate me. But most of the time I find your comments to be pretty intelligent and offer a perspective that I may not always agree with, but challenges me (and hopefully others) to look.
Mike wrote:
“The point of this article is not the Data Series. It is the state of the orgs. You seem too willing to head off on a tangent — if someone mentions the Data Series in a post, you want to derail this thread with your “Confirmation Bias” to “prove” that Hubbard was full of shit all the time about everything.”
Sorry for veering off-topic, Mike.
I see you challenge ideas from L Ron Hubbard all the time, even calling some of them “falsehoods”.
So when I present a wog idea to be superior to one of L Ron Hubbard’s ideas in Scientology, is this such a crime that it justifies your straw man above?
Here’s more on the superior wog idea of the Straw Man Fallacy, which LRH carefully omitted from teaching Scientologists in the Data Series, while using it on them constantly:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Straw_man
By the way, this colossal omission – and many others – are further evidence that wog logic and critical thinking skills are superior to the Data Series.
And with that, I’ll tip-toe away, so that the blog can finally return to its original topic.
Carry on.
Alanzo
Mike, it has also been obvious to me, via many interactions with dear Alanzo, that he is indeed fixated upon discrediting anything originating from LRH. The ‘bait’ infamously used by former DM aide, Tommy Davis, in upsetting John Sweeny, in ‘that’ video, — was the word ‘bigot’ (dfn. n. a person intolerant or not receptive to ideas of others, esp. religion.) In my own road of re-awakening, (or enlightenment) particularly via the presentations of former Buddhist, Adyashanti, I have learned the immense value of simply — ‘letting things go’.
Ironically, Alanzo seems quite unable (perhaps more unwilling?) to do that! Of course that is too much to ask, when one is absolutely determined to prove others WRONG!
To once again repeat my now boring refrain; — ” let it go,…. Al…”
I saw a tumbleweed roll by…
I can just see auditors in the centuries to come running out this period in Scientology history in narrative R3RA incidents: Auditor to PC: “Return to the time when you were a Scientology staff member or public…” PC replies – “God, this is a nightmare. We were moving along quite nicely and then suddenly everything changed and the Orgs emptied out” Auditor: “Move to that incident” PC “Yuk! Auditor: “What is the duration of that incident?” PC: “Let’s see, it started about 1981 and carried on from there, up until about 2014 at least. God that was a real engram! Far worse than being zapped in an implant station. Far, far worse!”.
Typo: I meant “And I dread to think how the 1 or 2 students (if the Org is “lucky”) who reluctantly turn up are treated on course these days”
I have just realized that COB’s understanding of “Clearing the Planet” means of course clearing out all of the Orgs of its people, you know, who we used to call er, students and preclears. These days I suppose they are just “customers” or “clients” or “donators” or – whatever. He is definitely clearing the Orgs out of anyone who dares to show up once in a while – they don’t bother ever again – if they have any sense or any sense of worth anyway. I have read that to even get onto Solo NOTs these days one “must be a Patron” which AFAIK is $40,000 straight away, before even paying for the course/level. And I dread to think how 1 or 2 students are treated on course these days – badgered out of existence by firstly the “supervisors” (sic) and their weird non-LRH ideas of how to supervise (the blind leading the blind – but this time for real),and then stung for donations and other nonsenses when the yrun the gauntlet to get to the street after course time. All this is of course counter to LRH Policy and counter-Tech. And they that are still in there believe all this nonsense and that COB has “made it all possible”. Yes, indeed he has! They should do TR0 on an empty course room and Org and they might have a cognition.Of course there are several LRH Policies which state that if stats are down they are being held down. Or have these been “revised” now? Actually the old timers (who are still “donating” to this scam) should all be shot from guns as they at least knew how it once was. The newbies have at least that excuse. “Clearing the planet” – yes, it takes on a different meaning – all Orgs cleared of students and preclears – that stat is straight up and vertical! And on top of all that, as if that wasn’t enough, there is a nasty taste of undue pressure and heaviness as well in the Orgs. It is all so “serious” now! Seriousness = mass. All started in late 1981 when that fool COB took over the place.
You may be on to something there. The attitude seems to be “come in when we call you in to donate or to ethics, otherwise stay away.”
One Audi at Las Vegas…a wealthy public? Surely a staffer would have had to sell it by now.
Mike Rinder,
“….if anyone in Corporate scientology was actually applying what is written in the Data Series it would not take them long to come to the conclusion that the entire activity is operating as a squirrel, suppressive organization.”
Hear Ye! Hear Ye! Thou speaketh Sooth!
Mike wrote:
““….if anyone in Corporate scientology was actually applying what is written in the Data Series it would not take them long to come to the conclusion that the entire activity is operating as a squirrel, suppressive organization.”
This is an interesting point that Mike makes, Leonore.
The problem is that a Scientologist can not apply the Data Series within Scientology to question or challenge any Hubbard idea, or Miscavige order: Within Scientology, the ideology must always be true – especially when it is false.
This has always been one of the fatal flaws in trying to use the Data Series to improve anything inside the Church of Scientology.
Hopefully, Independent Scientologists will have more social courage and intellectual honesty than they were allowed in the Church, and will be able to apply the Data Series to L Ron Hubbard’s statements, and to the ethics, tech, and admin of Scientology itself.
Like Mark Fisher and Mike Rinder are doing with this article.
Alanzo
I second that.
That was for Lenore.
Thanks, Mark. I love to see real stats and clear reasoning. I’m an old timer and I have first hand memories of several lively and booming orgs (outside of St. Hill & PAC).
I think that it’s a kind of “frog in a pot of slowly heating water” phenomenon that a lot of old-timers who WERE around in boom times stick around and fail to utter a peep of concern at the dismal scene today. Little by little, they justify the erosion of real products and accept, little by little, the slow implosion.
Your publishing stats like these Old St. Hill stats – if any dare look – hits one right in the face like wrestling with one of those old Bobo dolls.
Thanks again. Good stuff!
To hgc and commenters on counting cats….. Why not? They are only hanging around because these strays are looking for mice and rats. More predators in the parking lot are a good sign. So let’s count the rodents too. Mmmm…… I think I just saw a couple of roaches eating silverfish. Yeh – the stats are up!
Alanzo, Mike answered your post far better than I could. But I just have a question for you: Since it’s apparent that you hate LRH and all the tech, find no value in it and wouldn’t wish your worst enemy to partake of it, why do you keep following this blog? Obviously, most people here have had wins and successes in the past. Since you haven’t, wouldn’t your time be better spent commiserating with those on other blogs who share your rancor?
The audience on this blog has had ample time and experience to make up their minds and it seems fairly obvious they aren’t going to be swayed by your idee fixe. Maybe it’s time to get a life of your own.
I am not a fan of LRH or scientology.I come here to get a front row seat to watch scientology being dismantled piece by piece.You guys rundown corporate scientology and I assume they do the same to you,i believe the term is intercine.Either way scientology loses.
Anyway I thought the idea behind this blog was to have opinions on scientology discussed in a honest an open forum, how is telling people with a difference of opinion to go away helpful to this discussion.(lord12)
I read this blog everday for this reason and would hate to see any censorship or people driven away because their opinions of the benefits of scientology differ from others.
Freedom of speech should not be supressed otherwise we are no better than a certain tyrannical midget.
Mark, it is so valuable for you to communicate a sense of perspective as to what is happening in the world of Scientology today.
All of us old timers remember how things were in the REAL golden age of tech. For example, when Chris Montgomery (Class VIII, FEBC, OTVII) ran the SHSBC at ASHO in the 1980’s, all three (as yet “unrenovated”) floors of the BC wing were packed with students and she was graduating around one Class VI per week if I remember correctly. Then she was declared for refusing to accept new quicky Int Management checksheets and the BC has been in a continual downward slide ever since.
The problem is that newer Scientologists don’t have this perspective. They think that what is happening now is “the usual”. Well, what is happening these days is not “the usual”. It is the result of the know-best, squirrels in Int Management who have been corrupting the Tech and crashing org stats. Here is a visual testimony from my friend Bob Mongiello, a real Scientologist, who tells about what was “the usual” in Riverside, California back in the 1970s:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye032xYnKZc
Thank you for sharing this video. I have seen it before and the Riverside Mission was an example of what I was talking about in the 70s. It wasn’t just orgs. Some missions were much larger than the orgs. As time passes, we get further and further away from this more Ideal Scene and it is easy to forget comparing it to today’s empty buildings.
I so miss Guillaume. One had the sense that he genuinely liked and valued staff members, and this manifested in how he spoke to them, treated them, managed them. I heard a story about him once, not sure if true, that before he rose to command in Europe he had held the post of Crew Cook. The FP was dismal for the week and food allocation had been cut. As the story goes, Guillaume went fishing and single-handledly caught dinner for the crew.
Alanzo, LRH didn’t do everything right but The Data Series is one of the things he did do right. But you’ll have to study it without a “fixed idea” and also without a “confirmation bias” to have reality on what I say here. Your comment reveals that you haven’t done that yet. Plus the idea you present that you know what LRH was thinking and trying to achieve….wow, let me know if you have any takers on that as I have some swap land I’d like to unload.
Worsel’s posted comment with the Data Series quotes as they pertain to “”ideal orgs” was right on the money.
Good report. It seems more like four years since Vegas opened. It is in the most ridiculous location. If you had a good imagination and dreamt the worst possible location for an org this might be what you come up with.
Alanzo and Mike,
I agree with Mike, in that if you really use the Data series, you can navigate successfully through the crap that anybody throws at you INCLUDING Hubbard.
I don’t know why some Scientologists have so much trouble using the tech to spot when Hubbard screwed up. Just because he did does not mean that everything he created is crap.
My opinion is that Hubbard was a master at using white and black Scientology, and used both all time. If you learn them well and can detect them easily, and really accept that he was no saint and was full of it, you can get over Hubbard and Scientology.
Mike + 1. Would you warn me if ever I piss you off, coz you can really rip strips, when you want to!:)
I happened to be in Las Vegas in 2010 about two weeks after the Idle Morgue was opened so I decided to drive by to give it a look. I totally agree to the statement, “Thank God for GPS” because I would never have found it on my own! I visited in the afternoon on a Tuesday or Wednesday as I recall. The parking lot looked just as empty as the above pictures. I walked up to the receptionist and asked for a tour. There were a few staff milling around in Div6 – No public to be seen. Two other people walked in behind me and requested a tour, also. We were led around the place and shown the different divisions. I counted approximately 25 staff and virtually no public (There were 3 students in the Academy studying & doing drills). It was pretty and looked great but what was lacking – Public/Students/PC’s. And this was just two weeks after it opened. It was definitely an eye-opener considering all the hype that was put up when it opened. This was one of the experiences that led me to question and eventually leave the Corporate C of S.
We have been viewing these reports on the Idle Orgs for quite awhile. Based on the preponderance of evidence, David Miscavige has achieved the lofty status of “Ideal Failure.” Unless he wishes to claim credit for the destruction of the Church of Scientology, in which case he might rather go by the label of “Ideal SP.” Which is it, Dave?
An old friend of mine Larry Perna former ED LV F, gave me a tour of the unfinished ideal morgue Las Vegas building back in 2008 when I was then under the radar. He told me personally that he was in $100,000 + in credit card debt and had donated much to the building. But he sure was enthusiastic.He has been part of the Las Vegas field scene since 1982. I’m sure he donated even more since I last saw him.
It used to be a Jewish Synagogue. The location as Mark describes really sucks. Having been on Sea Org Missions to Las Vegas org probably about 10 times in the 1980’s, I’m actually surprised there were 25 cars in the parking lot on a Thursday after 2:00, but they are likely staff cars for the most part. And because it’s a Thursday after 2:00, you have 3 org’s doing “Stat evolution” (SO Members know what that means).
They used to be on Sahara Ave, in a slightly dumpy area from 1980-2010 but there was a lot of auto traffic and plenty of restaurant options within walking distance.
Thanks for the article and data.
These qoutes from Data Series 8, May 10, 1970, SANITY, apply:
“An observer has to be sane to sanely observe.”
“The “idée fixe” is the bug in sanity.
Whenever an observer himself has fixed ideas he tends to look at them not at the information.
Prejudiced people are suffering mainly from an “idée fixe.”
“History is full of idiocies‑and idiots‑with fixed ideas. They cannot observe beyond the idea.
A fixed idea is something accepted without personal inspection or agreement. It is the perfect “authority knows best.” It is the “reliable source.” A typical one was the intelligence report accepted by the whole US Navy right up to 7 Dec. 1941, the date of destruction of the US fleet by Jap planes. The pre‑Pearl Harbor report, from unimpeachably reliable sources was “the Japanese cannot fly‑they have no sense of balance.” The report overlooked that the Japs were the world’s greatest acrobats! It became a fixed idea that caused the neglect of all other reports.
A fixed idea is uninspected. It blocks the existence of any contrary observation.
Most reactionaries (people resisting all progress or action) are suffering from fixed ideas which they received from “authorities,” which no actual experience alters.
That British red‑coated infantry never took cover was another one. It took a score or two of wars and fantastic loss of life to finally break it down. If any single fixed idea destroyed the British Empire, this one is a candidate.”
“The reason a fixed idea can get so rooted and so overlooked is that it appears normal or reasonable.
And somebody or a lot of somebodies want to believe it.
Thus a fixed idea can become an ideal. It is probably a wrong ideal. Incapable Jap pilots would be a wish for a navy. It would be wonderful! Red‑coated infantry were supposed to be brave and unflinching.
In both cases the ideal is irrational.
A rational ideal has this law:
THE PURPOSE OF THE ACTIVITY MUST BE PART OF THE IDEAL ONE HAS FOR THAT ACTIVITY.
A navy that has an ideal that the enemy can’t fly is stupidly avoiding its own purpose which is to fight.
British infantry had the purpose of winning wars, not just looking brave.
Thus one can analyze for a sane ideal by simply asking, “What’s the purpose of the activity?” If the ideal is one that forwards the purpose, it will pass for sane.
There are many factors which add up to an ideal scene. If the majority of these forward the purpose of the activity, it can be said to be a sane ideal.
If an ideal which does not forward the activity in any way is the ideal being stressed then a fixed idea is present and had better be inspected.”
Therefore, the activities called “IDEAL ORG PROGRAM” is not more than a fixed idea, That’s what it is.
A superior logical idea to the one that LRH is offering in Data Series 8 is the “Confirmation Bias”.
The concept of a confirmation bias reminds you that you presently have a worldview, or set of beliefs, and that you have within you a bias or tendency to accept ideas which CONFIRM your existing worldview or set of beliefs.
The reason this critical thinking concept of confirmation bias is superior to LRH’s concept from the Data Series is that you are reminded that you should be questioning things in your search for truth, and that you should be very wary of accepting ideas which confirm your already existing beliefs. This concept teaches that you should be extra careful to examine ideas that confirm your existing beliefs because you have a built-in BIAS TO ACCEPT THEM WITHOUT THINKING.
In other words, using the Confirmation Bias to think with, you are always on the lookout for ideas that you accept JUST BECAUSE THEY CONFIRM YOUR EXISTING MINDSET.
It teaches you to always be on the lookout for, and to question, those.
LRH never wanted you to question ideas that might counter or undermine your Scientology Mindset. He wanted your Scientology Personality strictly intact and unquestioned.
So he gave you the “idea fixe” in the Data Series to think with instead. He could get you to use that label to reject anything that questioned your existing Scientology mindset.
For more on the Confirmation bias, look here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias
Alanzo
Alanzo, this is too much of a convoluted argument for me to follow, I think because you are straining to try and prove that everything that L Ron Hubbard wrote is somehow false. There is nothing in the Data Series that is designed to “circumvent” a “confirmation bias” — in fact, the exact opposite would appear to be true. You cite the concept of idee fixe as somehow contradicting the “confirmation bias” and I would say that idee fixe is EXACTLY what is being warned about in the Data Series — the preconceived idea of what is right. Or in other words, a “confirmation bias.”
The point of this article is not the Data Series. It is the state of the orgs. You seem too willing to head off on a tangent — if someone mentions the Data Series in a post, you want to derail this thread with your “Confirmation Bias” to “prove” that Hubbard was full of shit all the time about everything. Perhaps you should take your own advice here and look at YOUR worldview and whether you are only looking at things from that perspective.
Because I assure you, if anyone in Corporate scientology was actually applying what is written in the Data Series it would not take them long to come to the conclusion that the entire activity is operating as a squirrel, suppressive organization.
Yes, that is exactly what I thought Mike. Alanzo seems to have a bee in his bonnet (an Idee Fixe and bias no less – and ironically) about LRH and his statement that “A superior logical idea to the one that LRH is offering in Data Series 8 is the “Confirmation Bias”, is, when you read both sets of data dispassionately – patently not true. LRH said it all in that HCO PL from which seemingly Alanzo cannot extrapolate (that fact).It seems that Alanzo seizes any opportunity (in his mind) to refute Hubbard and his works but when you read what is stated with the 2 sets of data the idea that the Confirmation Bias is “superior” to the data stated by LRH is absolute nonsense. In fact one could almost say that the “Confirmation Bias” is simply a minor subset of what LRH has stated and is hardly breath-taking knowledge and I would not be surprised if the original author based it on the Data Series as is the case with much “later knowledge”. The fact that there are so many independent Scientologists challenging the (offical) Scientology mindset shows that application of the Data Series (and Scientology when correctly applied) works and to imply that Hubbard wanted Scientologists to follow some sort of mind set to accrue money for himself is really just an insult to his name and indeed a “confirmation bias”. It seems that some people (not just Alanzo of course – there are many over on ESMB as well) cannot stand the fact that LRH wrote massive amounts of sane and workable tech. I think Alanzo should look at this own bias and his almost hyena-like urges to try and feast on the carcass of Miscavige’s Scientology and somehow make out it is all Hubbard’s fault. Actually I didn’t even want to bother replying to Alanzo as he is simply just a wind up merchant that sees things through his own (?) not dispassionate and not impartial view, based on an Idee Fixe of his about LRH, but now I have and undoubtedly Alanzo will now reply and say that this is my “confirmation bias” – ha! But no I read the 2 sets of data dispassionately – unlike Alanzo. In fact as soon as I saw the word “superior” in Alanzo’s writings I knew who the author was before I even glanced at the author’s name.
This is a great article and thank you, Mark.
Miscavige isn’t worried about the Ideal Orgs being empty at all because opening a new building is pretty much his only product now. He’s spending other people’s money; never his own or that which he has control over, which is A LOT.
Excellent post! Fisher? isn’t that the one that was spied upon in Las Vegas by Captain Black heart’s minions?
Yes, one and the same….
It was dying in long island in the 1980’s & 90’s; No one “IN” could admit it. It is always the fault of the pitiful staff members (or their spouses, I guess.)
Fantastic analysis, Mark Fisher!!
And thank you very much for that graphic of the stats of Old Saint Hill!
Finally, The Unwashed have the benchmarks they need to evaluate the stats of orgs all around the world.
This may be old hat to the Int Base Liars, but to the Great Unwashed, “Old Saint Hill Sized” has been a complete generality which no one could ever get a hold of.
Sorry about the “Int Base Liars” part above.
As an old Mission staffer, I wanted to make that point on Mike Rinder’s blog.
It just feels so good. (:>)
Alanzo
I came back from London, England last night. During my stay I scouted the ‘Scientology & Dianetics Life Improvement Centre’ in Tottenham Court Road for about an hour. No activity at all, except for 3 staff members.
Full report with some pics here: http://tonyortega.org/2014/06/04/oy-vey-scientology-invokes-jewish-law-to-answer-lawsuit-by-attorney-vance-woodward/#comment-1419898753
Very informative Mark and Mike, thank you. The difference between dead and alive is truly perceivable, to anyone without a fixed idea. There was plenty of dev-t, errors and upsets in the 70’s and early 80’s, (I was an HGC Auditor at the time) but the difference was, live communication was occurring and things did get handled. We really respected each others point of view, and people would work and persist to make sure duplication and understanding occurred. Gains for the individual was the primary importance. It was common knowledge, that as-isness was the only point of what we were doing. Stat pushing was a serious problem but the tech staff held the line and Qual was very powerful. Nobody told Qual what to do. That was another key action of the dismantling of real Scn, the unmock of the power of Qual.
Totally agree Hallie.
Another fact that should be noted is that this is the parking lot for three orgs.
Las Vegas Ideal Day/Fountain and Las Vegas Celebrity Center.
Even the original location of the LV Org in the 70’s was better than the current location. It was in an industrial zoned area on Industrial Boulevard. It didn’t have much foot traffic but it did have a lot of cars driving by and could be seen.
Like Mark was saying, it would take a good GPS system to find the 3 orgs now.
As Corporate Liaison, Mark was the cut-out shock absorber from Miscavige’s wrath. Dave just couldn’t help himself from his typical sacking an ideal staff member. Without Mark, Dave’s shit began flying off the fan at an ever increasing rate.
Thanks for the nice comment. I think because I was closest to the shit that was DM on a daily basis, it was much easier for me to see how off the rails he was and when I could see no hope for change, I decided to leave rather than put up with his bullshit. I wasn’t the only one and nothing makes me happier than reconnecting with old friends from the Sea Org who are now out and living a happier life.
We in RTC hasten to point out that COB is focusing on quality and not quantity. The last thing COB wants in his spacious and glistening new Ideal Orgs are a bunch of, of, well, a bunch of raw meat pc’s with all of their bankiness, HE&R, Q&A, and endless demand for services.
That just wouldn’t work.
COB likes the idea of veteran and professional preclears, which is to say OT VII’s and OT VIII’s, endlessly redoing the Purif, TR’s, and Objectives. These older and highly experienced preclears are grooved in and know the ropes. No natter, no flashback, and none of the endless and whiny demands on the Org that a bunch of raw meat pc’s would make.
COB’s Ideal Org strategy is so much better than the Founder’s.
The fact is that the Founder had Orgs in old downstat buildings with worn carpets, cracked linoleum, dingy walls, second-hand furniture, and even ratty old fluorescent lighting fixtures with yellowed and cracked plastic covers. Those old Orgs were awful and offended COB’s aesthetic sensibilities. COB would get so enturbulated after visiting one of those old Orgs that he literally needed to pummel those responsible.
Moreover, these downstat Orgs were full of preclears who actually wanted auditing in exchange for their money! These people were not onboard with the idea of donating large sums of cash to the IAS!
COB says “good riddance” to the horrid past of Orgs.
COB rejects the premise that Orgs should be about delivery. There is so much more money to be made — and with far less work — by just taking people’s money in exchange for IAS trophies that it makes no sense whatsoever to COB to be delivery-focused.
COB’s R Factor is this: Delivery of services is an overt when the IAS so badly needs money to defend our religion. Accordingly, COB instantly RPF’s any Sea Org member who begins to hobbyhorse on Orgs delivering services. Likewise, any public who starts to hobbyhorse on Orgs delivering services is given an SP Declare.
Welcome to the Golden Age of Tech Phase II.
Yeah, it really sucked that all those second hand couches in the missions HGC had so many people sitting on them.
If I’m not wrong I heard some crickets chirping in the background.
A God Awful Time II has practically emptied the Church. I for one will not accept the
covert invalidation of my training and knowingness. Looks to me that more empty
spaces = more members voting by NOT showing up.
Scientology should brag about its spacious, abundant parking facilities.
They use them to make money in Denver during Baseball games.
DM uses parking as coins for negotiations with the city of Clearwater, jgg.
Well said jgg2012. Ideal parking lots are square feet that need to be added up and counted in the org size. While at it the ideal landscaping and even surrounding sidewalks outside need to be included since the latter are so easily shut down to snooping wogs at events. Square feet of well-measured ex-building spaces could easily double the total org size in the Golden Age of Remeasurement.
Excellent article and stats.
Very informative data and I concur – between 1978 and 1981 at ASHO and AOLA there were so many students, pcs, public and staff that to walk down the stairs of ASHO required to not step onto the many public seating on the stairs. Also crossing the street from ASHO to AOLA offered you with many people walking back and forth. All smiling and looking well by the way.
Not too long ago I walked all around AOLA and ASHO and saw only two staff members; was during the morning and during a week day. No public, parking lot with very few cars, same story. The place was ‘dead’.
Thank you for the report.
It’s easy for people to forget what a booming org was like back in the 70s and 80s. All the current public see as an ideal scene is what is around them now. Those orgs and missions back in the day were full of life and it made you proud to be apart of something special that was helping yourself, family friends and mankind. Thanks for sharing the information on ASHO and AOLA during that time. It is the way it was in most large orgs.
Roger that Mark,
As wrote several times earlier. AO was so packed with public we had ’em lining up down the hallway and stair wells.
ASHO,
Yeah I remember someone in estates complaining how he had to paint stairway to the BC practically every week and that he thought that putting carpet on the stairs was a really bad idea because he’d just have replace it every month because of the heavy traffic and that I should shut up and stick to auditing 😉
Considering that all recorded stats are no longer standard and are only based on what DM wants to promote, I wouldn’t be surprised if he now promotes cats in parking lot as a weekly stat.
My phone misunderstood me, of course. I meant cars — not cats. =)
🙂 Same difference.
Yeah, but from how it looks the cats stat might always be higher.
To 2brian cox,
You got it right the first time.
Cats per parking lots Internationally is straight up and vertical.
No worries. He’ll be down to counting cats soon enough.
Mark, that was just an exceptionally great post. Nothing makes the lies clearer than seeing those old, actual stats. They really were just amazing. Thanks again.
The Orgs have been empty for many years with only staff members of 10-20 showing up daily. Typically, I was the only public getting auditing or on course. It felt lonely to be part of such a tiny group. I had no clue as to why no new people were coming in.
Thanks to the internet – I am no longer wondering why this for-profit Organization disguised as a church is empty. Wait until the members have some GAT II under their belt and nothing changes….more will leave.
I drive by the Idle Morgue almost daily and it is still empty with 10-15 cars in the parking lot – all DB looking vehicles so you know they are staff. The public are broke so no one is coming in anymore.
Thank you. Wow… it would have been wonderful to be there when it was booming like that. Thank you for sharing this.
If you’re real quiet, you don’t need to see these pictures. You can hear it all imploding.
Thanks for the excellent write-up and comparison, Mark. We old timers do remember when it was alive.
I agree the scene back then was less than ideal (most staff weren’t even fully hatted never mind Post Purpose and Product Cleared and getting Students through course in Check Sheet time was more the exception than the rule but in most Orgs most PCs were happy with their results even through in many cases the auditing wasn’t totally Standard) yet people were having wins and making gains because that was *intention* and *purpose* of almost everybody on Staff back then.
Personally I remember if a student or PC wasn’t happy with the results they paid for they got either a free GF or a SRL or if worse came to worse their money was refunded based on the review of the CVB.
Now it all seems to be about regging money and pie in the sky “promises” that if you give ’em your last dime a cleared planet will somehow magically appear.
Personally I think a lot of people who are giving them all this money honestly do want others to have similar gains to theirs and their intentions are good.
But you know what they say about the road to hell being paved by good intentions.
Not an all encompassing maxim but in the case of these “Ideal Orgs” and all these “Library Projects” and especially the IAS it does apply.
Nice job there. You’re also describing the attendant, unmistakable sounds inside a sanatorium. What else could one expect from a madman hell bent on total ‘mental destruction’, of those in his ‘care’?… Hades!