The Reddit AMA (“ask Me Anything”) special has now aired, and now it’s on to Episode 4 tomorrow (The Rise of Miscavige).
As always, I am interested in your views – including criticisms and things you think might be better explained or covered.
I also suspect there are quite a number of new people who are coming to this blog for the first time. To all of you, welcome.
I thought you might find it instructive to be directed to some earlier postings I have done that may help explain some things if you just watched the show or are curious about the bizarre scientology statements about Leah, me or anyone who has a differing opinion of their infallibility and dares voice it.
Perhaps most important is to understand the mindset scientologists have about those who criticize any part of it:
Dealing with Critics of Scientology — The L. Ron Hubbard Playbook
And here is a fairly short explanation of how disconnection is used in scientology (and how they try to spin the practice):
Disconnection: the PR and the Truth
An overview of the efforts by scientology to smear Leah Remini:
Scientology Dead Agents* Itself
And finally, a recent post about the unenforceable agreements scientology tries to hold over people’s heads to make them fear speaking the truth:
Thank you to all who continue to send messages of support and love by text, phone, email, FB, twitter, instagram and even stopping us in the street or at the grocery store. It has been quite overwhelming. I cannot hope to respond to everyone. I try to read everything and that alone is a challenge. If I do not “Like” your comment or Tweet or respond to your message, please understand it is appreciated.
Many wonder what they can do. Call your Congressman and Senator to do something about the ongoing abuses. Write to the IRS. Support and comment on media articles and blogs that cover the abuses (like Tony Ortega at the Underground Bunker) and express your support to A&E for stepping up and taking on scientology.
Watch Leah Remini: Scientology The Aftermath every week and tell your friends to do so.
Don’t ever think you have no voice or there is nothing you can do. There is plenty.
The support of Leah and everyone else involved is invaluable and appreciated. Please don’t stop. Knowing there are a lot of people out there on our side is comforting and gives strength.
Mike, thank you and Leah and A&E and everyone else who has participated and will continue to shed the true light on what Scientology is all about. As a child, and as an adult, I have had experiences with three different cults. Most recently, it was Scientology. I interviewed with a Dentist and was so excited to learn that they put a very high value on continuing education. They said that were very involved with learning about new technologies and ways to communicate better with their clients. As a student of life, this really spoke to me and my personal and professional goals. I felt the interview went quite well and was called back the next day and offered the job. I felt like they saw something in me that was worth investing time and money into additional training in the dental field. I felt special. They asked me to come back the next day for some testing that would help them asses my strengths and weaknesses in order to find the ways I would best serve the practice. I agreed. After taking the almost two hour ‘test’, I left. I began to feel slightly uncomfortable as I am a very private person, and I felt these questions/answers were exposing who I was just a bit too much. I disregarded the voice in my head that said “something is not right” and went into my first day of work the next Monday. As it happened, the dentist and his wife, the practice manager, were in Clearwater for training. I was given a binder, the biggest binder I had ever seen in my life, crammed full of page after page of policies I had to sign and agree to. Again, this seemed quite strange to me as it was different than any first day of work I’ve ever had. As the day went on, I saw posters in the back that had ‘L. Ron Hubbard’ written at the bottom. Not being very familiar with Scientology at that time, I took a mental note, but said nothing. I then began some training on how the dentist describes and names his instruments. This is typical as every dentist is different. I was practicing, and when my supervisor left the room, I happened to see a piece of paper on the counter. It was all about me. What type/color personality I had, what would motivate me, what would overwhelm me….etc etc. The moment I read the things on that paper, I could feel my face getting all red, and something inside me boiling up. I was mad. “Who do you think you are telling me who I am?” I became extremely uncomfortable and wasn’t sure if I’d last the day, but I did. I went home and got on my laptop. I started searching for the ‘testing’ they’d done on me and on Scientology in general. I stayed up all night, researching and coming to the conclusion that this was no religion, this was a cult. And I was now employed by people who were very involved with this cult and wanted me to be involved too. I emailed the dentist the next morning and thanked him kindly for the opportunity, but that position was not a good fit for me. Well, let me say, things did not end there. With a normal position, an employer may ask why, but things would probably end there. Not in this case. I was called–incessantly–but I never responded. By now my heart and soul knew that I was dealing with a cult and there was no point interacting further. A classmate of mine did not head my warning and accepted a job there a while later and experienced similar things. She quit and was harassed in the same ways and worse, she was also followed, which forced to hide at my home. Disgusting practices of a cult. Until this experience I cannot say that I ever thought a business would be able to do things like this legally, but under the guise of religious freedom, they do. I will continue to support you, Leah, A&E and everyone else who is involved with this movement you are creating. I am so thankful I had past experiences that gave me the intuition to stay far away from Scientology. I will also continue to pray for all who are still in Scientology. May God bless you all. You are in my prayers.
L Yash says
Seems like Katie Holmes planned ahead of time, she waited for Cruise to be far away on location filming a new movie, and she made a quick escape from COS. She well knew what was coming down the path, and that would have been for their little daughter Suri to go for her “first auditing session”….holding “the cans” while the Auditor probed her little mind to see if “mommy had bad thoughts about DM or COS”……..brain washing her into complete loyalty and obedience to the COS cause. .Katie didn’t want that to happen, nor did she want to lose complete control over her daughter.
One question I do have Mike is…..the required standard of education for children per the every state that COS has “churches” in…..just HOW are the children of COS members educated? Seems like many former members have stated that they have NO High School Diploma or real education. Keeping the children under educated keeps them loyal to the cause, they don’t know enough to get OUT or how to find a way out of their “parent church”. Keeping the children living in fear that people on the outside are “Evil”, and the only true savior for their spiritual souls is and always will be COS.
They take the parents funds away to prevent them from leaving as well, if you willing give ALL, as Ron M said…they walked away with a few dollars in their pocket. The ONLY thing to do would be to start life all over again when one is in their 40’s, 50’s, 60’s, and all their retirement funds, IRA, bank accounts are drained.
This is a sick society, where emotional and physical abuse is rampant. There should NEVER be statute of limitations when it comes to child sexual abuse, and any adult who was physically assaulted, especially the physical assault that were witnessed should be able to prosecute the abuser.
As I posted before….DM and the rest of the hierarchy will NEVER make true public appearances, they remain safely behind walls of their ivory tower while the rest of the COS who have escaped have to begin anew…..rebuilding their self esteem that’s been ripped from them, and rebuilding their lives, knowing left behind are loved ones who have yet to realize what’s REALLY going on….all too sad….
Julie Bonaduce says
First, Thank You. I’ve not had direct experience with Scientology, but I’ve watched a similar brand of manipulation ruin the lives of people I love. In watching your A&E special, and recently re-watching “Going Clear,” I had a question: Do you think Miscavige is fully aware of how absurd and dangerous all of this is? Is he a true believer in the doctrine, or is he desperately trying to protect his golden egg-laying goose? Is he honey and locusts, or P.T. Barnum? He has to be stopped either way, and I confess I’d prefer he spend the rest of this – and every subsequent- lifetime being the special toy of an especially violent inmate named Dozer. I’m just curious how much of his crime has been first degree – in full knowledge and awareness.
It would be folly to try to paint an accurate portrait of one as complex as David Miscavige with just one person’s biased opinion. The man is an enigma to even the wisest of men and women.
Some say he is teaching us harsh lessons because his love is so great he wishes to shock us out of our self-imposed constraints. Others say his benevolence is camouflaged by his impatience with those who can’t see his great vision for the future of the universe.
Muffins Yingling says he is constantly apologizing for this failing and has awarded extravagant financial amends to everybody he fears he may have offended. She says he has been deeply hurt by the unintentional treacheries of Mike and Leah and the rest of those who have been drugged and tortured by the Psychiatric Industrial Complex. He understands what has been done to them and remembers them in his prayers. His sense of having failed them has caused him to drink immoderately on rare occasions.
People just can’t seem to agree about him except to say he is enchanting, that flowers bend toward him when he walks by and birds are drawn to fly over him where ever he goes.
Kelly H. says
I have really enjoyed this show and have gotten several friends to watch as well. A huge new Scientology center was recently opened about a mile from my house in Atlanta and what do you know, a postcard plugging Dianetics came in the mail this week!!
Keep up the good fight, I admire both of you for taking on this organization, I really hope this series motivates authorities to ask their own questions.
L Yash says
After doing some internet surfing I found COS in Philadelphia, PA…..never knew that before. I viewed the website and listened to their “sales pitch” & can understand how someone who might be “looking for something” can easily be sucked into this.
I can only imagine the amount of money the top money making celebs have “donated” to COS. If Leah it costs her says millions and others say hundreds of thousands to stay in the good graces of the COS and “move up the bridge, that’s mind boggling.
More frightening is the type of information COS has in it’s files to use at their OWN discretion against some of these top money making celebs…..information that could be extremely damaging to their personal life. The COS would certainly use that highly personal information from their “auditing sessions” against these people, and that is certainly horrific.
Sharon Webb says
I am fascinated by the Aftermath program and the resulting good it hopefully will do but I have to say all the Scientology lingo and abbreviations are just sooo tedious and pretentious. I wish I could say I will boycott Cruise movies but I never watched them anyway.
Vicki Lodden says
I highly doubt the family members still in Scientology would listen/view them, or even be allowed to. They probably wouldn’t even know about them. I do agree though that it would be therapeutic for the disconnected members.
L Yash says
One thing I would like to see is what type of home does David M live in that is paid for by COS. He certainly has to be living in some type of luxury mansion with his high level staff waiting on him hand and foot. COS takes away all of the “parishioner” finances which leaves them basically broke and dependent on COS to have a roof over their heads, food in their stomach, yet they are expected to go into great debt to continue to purchase COS books, tapes, DVD, CD’s and pay for their own auditing sessions……sickening.
Mike and Leah,
I have become extremely intrigued by your show. As a person of faith, I fervently believe in the concept of free will. When a person gives that part of themselves away, they lose their identity as an individual. Watching Aftermath has helped me reinforce that belief. I give both of you all the credit in the world for standing up for what is right and just in this world. Don’t let anyone stop you.
Can you not get godaddy to take down the hate sites? They are using your name in their domain names. I am sure that this is a violation during the domain purchase process You should run a Whois search on each hate domainti find out where it was registered. Then apply to have them revoke the domain.
I think it would be useful for disconnected members to have a place online to go upload via audio or video their stories. As a therapeutic tool but more importantly so family members still in scientology can go listen and view.
At the holidays and birthdays captive people are very receptive this could help get families back together.
Im referring to Columbia’s Guerrilla Ad Campaign in the Jungle. They managed to get one third of the guerrillas to just come home.
Please look into this. Its proven and works.
Kathleen Liggett says
Do you really think they on the inside celebrate Holidays and Birthdays like we do. You have to remember the isolation from the outside world, they have
No TV or internet. They have no idea of the real world. Another comment about Tom Cruise, did you ever wonder why Nicole Kidman fled without her two adopted children who were given custody to Tom.
Patricia A Zubal says
I have no personal experience with Scientology nor do I have any friends in Scientology. I think you (Mike) and Leah are doing a fantastic job of breaking down the complexities of Scientology for those of us with no direct knowledge of this organization. Scientology seems to have its own language with many, many abbreviations which is sometimes hard to follow on the blogosphere, Keep up the great work and look forward to watching the remaining episodes. My hope is that your message gets through to the right people and will make a difference for so many families.
I moved to Tampa from Massachusetts about 15 years ago. One of the first things I noticed was the personality test offers in Ybor when I would go out with friends. I remember driving to Clearwater for the first time and my father explaining that is where Scientology is based. He pointed out the people in uniforms and the huge building. I remember thinking that they owned half the city, but didn’t really think much further….until now.
I read Leah’s book due to my always being a huge fan of hers..it lead me to Going Clear and all the other documentaries I could find. I can’t say I will ever look at any of the buildings around here the same way.
I will also be reaching out to my congressmen. I know I don’t have the same voice as I personally have never been a part of it, but I offer my 100% support not just to you but anyone who has been touched or affected by this group.
Just Keep Fighting – A
Robert McConnell says
It would be nice to see this series lead to possible legislation around religions and cults i.e. consumer protection. While people have the right to religious freedom, they also have the right to at least a minimal level of respect– complete with civil liberties intact. We have the right to question authority without retribution and to question the direction of social organizations. Many groups alienate members from their friends in families in different ways. Plus, the control needs of many cult leaders often don’t respect the boundaries of what things are their business. For example, If I am gay, this is my business– regardless of what anyone else has to say about it. I think that the key to empowering the individual and creating legislation is to tease out the civil rights issues. This would involve looking at how many different organizations violate individual rights. Also, collecting existing laws around physical, sexual and mental abuse issues. It also involves refining laws around bullying, slander and liabel. Cults are here to stay. They are part of being human because we are social animals. The impact of cults are very powerful. They can help us quit drugs or they can help us smuggle drugs. It’s really a matter of how functional or dysfunctional the group dynamics of the groups are. I’ve been involved in many different cults and I have a lot to say on the subject. I would like to see or be part of a task force that explores legislation by government and religious freedom. I believe in religious freedom. However, I also feel that the government has a duty to protect the consumer from abusive cults. I, also, understand that legislators have no idea about what kind of legislation to write. I am very moved by the series.
Mike and Leah:
What a wonderful team you make. Blowing sparks off each other in the most positive sense. Producing true tragicomedic entertainment which double nails the messages.
The way you put this program together, even while going over old ground in a new format, highlights the lameness of the COS incredulous response. It must be causing severe cases of Koolaid regurgitation.
One of the blur of comments said Mike looked or sounded evil in his defense of the church when he was spokesman. Sorry not to have the wording given by the commenter. But when i saw Mike-as-international-spokesman around the time Anonymous was giving the church indigestion, I didn’t believe his words for a second and laughed at them. It is incredibly difficult for plain-speaking Aussies to convince people of bullshit when you can see their faces and eyes! Sorry Mike to ruin your reputation! Stick with the real you.
Someone else said Leah interrupts and talks over. WRONG… [thank you Mr. Trump]. Just part of that NY charm of keeping a passionate conversation animated and in high gear. Just listen to Larry King interviewing her to see someone really good at interruption. And Leah I’m so proud to see that a Hollywood actor can live a realife part so well. [So called method school?]
I’m playing catch up and have yet to watch to Episodes 3&4 of the main series but wanted to support you efforts. Beautifully done.
I agree with Tony that Leah does not interrupt or talk over the speaker. Take a look at the O’Reilly show on FOX. There is a perfect example of constant interruption and talking over the guests in a way that is painful. O’Reilly seems proud of it because he reads emails from people complaining of this almost daily. It’s weird!
L Yash says
When you are very passionate about something you are more than likely bound to interrupt the flow of conversation. Having lived this lie for decades, and now knowing the truth Leah at times can’t contain herself in an strong attempt to save others from the same fate.
What religion makes you sign a contract basically signing all your rights away. A “religion” that forces you to pay for “auditing sessions” where you are interrogated with more or less a lie detector test to reveal your inner most thoughts, fears, indiscretions, ideas, only to have someone who is a COS “enforcer” correct you. What religion takes away your right to come and go from the facility at will, locking you away in a secure facility (prison) behind barbed wire fencing and refusing to let you leave when you want to, what religion takes ALL of your finances making it impossible to escape because you have no financial backing. What religion steals your children away and leaves them limited educationally so they can’t exist outside the walls of COS. What religion deems you a “Suppressive Person” and more or less forces your family to totally abandon any future contact with you.
The only fear I have is that as Mike indicated that COS “implode” would be something horrific like a Jonestown or David Koresh issue happening , where the Sea Org or higher level loyalist begins executing it’s members.
I’ve not missed an episode and I thank Leah, Mike, and the former members for their strength in character. We are writing our elected officials today!
Yeah. About Leah interrupting when people talking is so not true! I have watched every second of this show and that is not true.
I’ve never heard of a ‘religion’ that was so hateful and corrupt, except for cults and extremist.
As a Christian, the Bible shares about loving God and loving people, that’s it! Following these basic guildlines makes serving, sharing and living peaceable with others, attainable.
God would also NEVER demand money to achieve knowledge, Growing and leaning is FREE! Titheing is an offering that’s between you and Him, but there are never a required amount.
I pray that those that have left this cult, will find a true peace and will know how much God loves them unconditionally!
Peace to you and Leah!!
Mike B. says
Took your suggestion, during the Reddit episode yesterday, to contact my local representative. Besides the countless stories of abusive of adults, the child labor is especially concerning. Senator Portman of Ohio has an new email in his inbox. This WILL be investigated. Thank you for all you and others are doing to draw attention to this disgraceful organization. Best Wishes!
Leah and Mike I am watching every episode and supporting you both in what you are doing. I have a question? Through everything that has happened from your childhoods with SCN where do you both stand with faith? Or religious beliefs? I am a Christian but I was curious to what you think and how you feel and raise your families now since you no longer are in SCN. Much love to you both.
Idle Morgue says
Bethany there is no “faith”. There is only LRH – who is God. You don’t have faith – LRH frowns upon it and even has some reference. Scientology is not for the namby pamby panty waist dilettante.
Old Surfer Dude says
Wow! Mike was right! There are a lot of new “faces” here. What can I say…the more the merrier!
John Brownlee says
I wonder if Scieno Sitter is still being used. It could explain why members are never privy to the real news about the church. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scieno_Sitter
veronica studnicka says
You are bravo! GOD BLESS YOU!
Just saw the preview of the new Aftermath episode on Miscavige. This looks really interesting.
Old Surfer Dude says
I thought I had it down. Put in my email and password in. Still no access to Leah’s show. I probably got black listed. Story of my life…
If you signed up you should be able to see it. Call them, they’re very helpful and will get you going. +1 888-348-1248
Click on the heart icon to make it a favorite so it’s easy to access.
I signed onto sling tv. You can call them. Sign up for as many months as you want. Then turn it off if you want.
I dumped tv years ago. So I’ve had no access. Now I do just for this.
Call them, they’ll walk you through it. Download their app and presto.
Sling tv. Google it.
I Yawnalot says
It could be suggested by available and obvious evidence that the operating policy of Scientology is one of premeditated and organised hate. They are not alone with that type of religious philosophy but their origination and headquarters is in one of the freest and most advanced societies on earth. It doesn’t make any sense that the bastions of freedom allow such an outrage in their own backyard. Law and order sure has turned a blind eye on this group. Isn’t their an American oath to defend against enemies both foreign and domestic? Look, don’t listen applies.
The “defend against enemies both foreign and domestic” thing is part of the oath sworn by anyone entering any branch of the US military, the one that I took all those years ago. Unfortunately, we can’t sic the US military on the cult.
Everyone who has enlisted in the armed forces of the United States has made the following promise:
I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God.” (Title 10, US Code; Act of 5 May 1960 replacing the wording first adopted in 1789, with amendment effective 5 October 1962).
I Yawnalot says
Pity, because the governing authority of Scientology masquerades as a para-military entity. They even advertise themselves in uniform and with swords no less for recruitment purposes. They call people sir, have a rank structure and even a billeting system which is more than close to being a barracks – what part about that isn’t military in orientation? I wonder if there’s an obscure law that deals with forming private militia within the sovereign borders of the continental US without taking that oath you so generously supplied above? Religion with military aspirations generally has a ghastly history wherever it occurs, just saying…
Hey Mike. I have a couple of intertwined questions. First off. Is DM the only one not drinking his own Kool aid and realizing that it is a straight up business or are there others high up who realize and work towards that too? Or does he have everyone so brainwashed from the accountants to the sales staff? I have to imagine those people who convince others they need more levels of learning must be trained in hard core high pressure sales techniques.
Second, wouldn’t you as an executive be above the people imprisoning you at gold base? Or is the corporate structure set up so that no one is in charge of anyone else with the exception of Kim jong un…I mean DM?
And also, do those of you who were in high up places (and basically spent your whole life in the org) get outside training in things like finance, marketing, corporate law and all the other things that make a business run or did you guys just figure it out as you went along? If so that’s pretty impressive. And for someone who spent their life on a boat and in a compound how does DM run such a complicated corporation with no education?
Sorry to be so long with my questions but it’s all just so fascinating to me. Keep up the good work!!
David Kralemann says
Anyone that could take the crap that LRH put out is seriously delusional. Doesn’t anyone get it that this guy was a science fiction writer?? Research how he thinks the world was started – the whole Xemu thing. Good grief. How friggin ridiculous can a story be? Seriously. He even said himself that the best way to get rich was to start a religion. Hello. It is no wonder that they want to get people into the org as early as possible. Anyone with any common sense at all can see what a scam this is. I love that Leah has called him out on tv as nothing but a coward. I’d love to see someone kick his cocky little ass. It wouldn’t take much….
Also, if LRH was so “advanced” and “evolved” or whatever, then where is he? Shouldn’t he be able to operate without a body by now? I mean come on, he and DM are supposed to be these super spirits or whatever. What a load of crap.
Christine Faber says
I remember as a teenager visiting my grandmother in Clearwater and hearing about the Scientologists and seeing that huge building. Never thought about it again. Fast forward 35 years and I see the previews for the Leah’s show. I live southeastern Wisconsin so you know there are not too many scientologist around in this area. I watched every episode and looking forward to watching the episode tonight with the monster’s father. I am mortified that any one is treated like that in an “organization”. You cannot call it a church by no means. It is in every way a cult. I even have my employer watching the series. I do know this going forward, as an avid movie watcher, I will never again watch a movie by, Cruise, Travolta, or any other actor that is involved with Scientology and sits by and allows this to happen children and their families.
Thank you for enlightening the rest of the world about the false imprisonments, rapes, abductions (children taken away from the parents) .
I hope something is done about these people legally and morally.
Robert Peterson says
It’s nice to hear from another anti-Scientologist from SE WI. I was born and raised in Fort Atkinson. All Hail Xenu !!
After seeing the last episode and seeing Mike burst out in tears i was wondering if you all still do not believe in psychologists now that you are out of the church or do you still distrust them. I am asking because you are all victims. It is giving ex church members heartache,nightmares etc. In my country when people are victims we have something that is called victim help. People you can talk to so you can get rid off this bad experience you all had.
The last episode made me cry and i do hope something can be done to make them all stop. I will never understand cults and why people stay,but when it does happen and it just hits you what you are doing i hope everybody can get out and live there life accordingly, happy and free. I admire Leah so much for what she is doing. I admire all of you for keeping this up when the church harasses all yall. Keep it up and i hope it works.
I just want to thank you for exposing this cult to more people. I’m a Christian. Always have been, always will be. But I read Going Clear last year and I’ve read Leah’s book. It makes me sick that anyone would use religion to hurt people, scientology, Christianity, or any other religion. Thank you again. Truly. I pray you and your family, Leah’s family, and others involved in this series stay safe. Blessings to you.
Mike Roper says
It was terrific. My only wish is that you had gone into more detail when speaking about the “cross” — it’s possible connection to LRH’s affinity for the occult/Alistair Crowley, for example, and it’s apparent use to make the whole thing look more “religious.”
Mike, unfortunately there surely have been suicides due to the atrocities and human suffering from the barbaric actions of the “church”, of which I use that term loosely. No doubt, any suicides most assuredly would have been covered up…the person/persons have simply gone missing, or another convenient source of blame would be applied. God speed to you, Leah and the others.
Jay Arnn says
I realized that you, Leah and the rest of the former Scientologists were speaking truth after reading what the Cult of Scientology has written about you all. It amazes me that an organization could spend such energy on hatred. So much so, that it is a hatred commensurate with the Nazi party in 1930’s-40’s Germany against the Jewish peoples. I confess that I know very little about Scientology, nor know any Scientologists, but I do know cult behavior and this organization fits right in. It is concerning that it is referred to as a Church rather than a cult. If you and the rest of the individuals who are trying to save families from the destructive aims of this organization were spreading false accusations the cult would be best to ignore it rather than spend such energy on smear campaigns of their own. This is a very good indication of cult behavior. It is very sad that their greed will continue to prey on innocent victims and destroy families.
Our need to belong, to be a part of something bigger, to be loved, plays into the Scientologists hands. They use that core need to exploit under the veiled cover of making one better, ethical, stable mentally and financially – sounds great, but in the end it is only to separate the individual from their money and if you question – you are separated from others – vilified – disconnected. Not to sound like a bible thumping Christian – because Christianity has its cults just as bad as Scientology – however – the true Gospel is inclusive not exclusive. Jesus sat with the tax collectors and prostitutes – he hugged the leper – even dined in a lepers house. God created humans to live in a circle of love with the Father – Son – and Holy Spirit: Any religion which destroys the family is a religion which is Anti-Christ – pure evil and of Satan. The family is the basic building block of God’s plan and it is inclusive of all – unlike Scientology – a questioning attitude is supported by the Gospel – many times the disciples questioned God – and many times He gently brought them back oh His shoulders. Many are frustrated because man made religion (like Scientology) is flawed – the requirements – the rules – the fake posturing eventually cannot be met and people become exhausted from either trying so hard without results or the change is only an outward change – a beautiful covering for a rotten to the core fruit that no one wants. The truth about our spiritual being is that we were created by a loving Father – who asks us to first hear the word and then decide to believe and in our belief – we rest in the finished works of Jesus who prepares us – His bride for the feast. God does not want servants – God wants sons and daughters to share the inheritance with – inclusive not exclusive. Sadly, so many Christians are lead to believe that it is their sin which separates them from God – and to those that teach this – they need to be pulled down from the pulpit just as the leaders of Scientology and all cult religions should be. Sin is not the issue – but self works to earn salvation makes the cross of no effect. The drowning man doesnt need instructions on how to swin – he doesnt need encouragement – he needs a Savior – someone to rescue him and get him to shore. The key here is to recognize that we are all drowning – no matter where we are in life – no matter how good we thing we are or how bad we think we are. When you rest in your rescuers arms, they are able to safely get you to shore – when you fight and try to save yourself – you drown. All we are asked to do is rest – so sad that so many believe that they can find happiness by spending thousands of dollars on courses and instructions when all they need is the love of the Father – the family – and the knowledge that they are loved even in their darkest moments. True Christianity is not an invitation to become obedient – to change outwardly – or separate oneself from others – rather, it is an invitation to be loved.
Mike, loved the last installment. One idea is to bring up old people. The SO has no use for old people if they can’t produce and keep up the schedule and work load. They off load them to their families if they haven’t already disconnected from them, or they put them in state run old folks’ homes and met Medicaide pay for it. So you go in being promised that the SO will take care of you for life in return for your billion years of service to the SO. But that is a lie. They don’t take care of their old people. Bring up Claire Reppen as an example and put Mike Reppen’s story on there.
Mike Rinder says
Thanks Cindy. Yes, the elderly are a real concern. They are the other end of the spectrum from children. Needs more exposure for sure.
L Yash says
The part about the COS “spy” reporting that Ron M. “might be having a heart attack” and then hearing his son say more or less “if he’s dying, let him die”……now we know what they think about older people. Then again having a 12 year old working hard labor, not being well educated, and having sex with a 40 year old woman isn’t normal either,
Please keep this going, someone out there has to listen be it the IRS, FBI, CIA…..hello our Politicians, is anyone home?
1. I do the greatest good for the greatest number
2. Most old Sea Org members aren’t any good
3. Fuck ’em
Jeffrey Augustine hosts a podcast called Surviving Scientology Radio (Mike Rinder was guest #1!). In one of the episodes with Aaron Smith-Levin as a guest, Aaron tells the story of a man who was supposed to be doing one of the OT levels in Clearwater (I can’t remember the man’s name). He arrived, stroked out, and was dragged out to a bench outside, unconscious.
An ambulance was called, no one went out to meet the ambulance. He was in the hospital for weeks as a John Doe. Scientology did not notify his family of what had happened. The man suffered memory loss and needed treatment to get back to normal. It was Aaron’s mother who went to visit him and identified him when she heard.
All over what? Not having an ambulance call associated with the Scientology mecca after Lisa McPherson? This man had a family. I hope they were not expecting to hear from him for weeks, because otherwise, what were they told?
That story is not even rare, or shocking… Really screwed up things like that seem to happen an awful lot around this church.
For the most ethical group on the planet, they should get up to some amazingly bad stuff.
Sorry, I meant to reply to rivercs below. I’m not sure how to delete this :-/
I’d just like to say that my boyfriend and I are completely engrossed with the show. I’ve been curious about Scientology and it’s practices for years although I was raised Catholic. The promise of spiritual enlightenment and total freedom along with seeing the celebrities Scientology has attracted throughout the years had me thinking this somewhat ‘exclusive’ religion could be something worth exploring. Months back I took the free personality test online and have had some members of the Church reach out asking me come in and get the results several times. After googling for myself and recently watching ‘Going Clear’ along with following yours and Leah’s show on A&E – I can safely say this is a religion I will definitely be staying far away from. Thanks to you, you’ve saved me my time and potentially a lot of money and heartache.
Was wonderful, love the clarification on what’s needed, and what will be addressed next. Please have more Paulette Cooper and Karen De la Carrier…they have so much more to share. <3
Mike, I am in Europe, how do I do to watch the show ?
Is there any recording of each episodes ?
I was able to purchase a season pass on amazon prime. Is that available in Europe?
John M says
Mike, the show makes it seem like you are still a Scientologist….just disagree with Miscavige and leadership. Can you come out on a future show and state that Scientology is rubbish, a cult and you no longer practice any part of it!
Kathy H. says
Hey John, have you watched all of the shows? He’s made it perfectly clear in numerous ways that he is as disgusted with everything they stand for as Leah is. At least it’s been very clear to me.
There are plenty of people who say they have benefitted from one part of Scientology or another. To call it “all rubbish” seems rather ignorant or simply a matter of opinion, not necessarily fact.
Xenus Brother In Law says
Another brilliant episode. Well done.
Observations? As stated by a previous poster Leah has a tendency to “speak over” others. Perhaps you could get her to shut up and wait her turn……!! lol.
Don’t tell her I said that for god’s sake……. She’s an absolute babe and comes across as being very concerned about the abuses of the CoS, obviously for very good reason.
Keep up the good work.
Great job Mike and Leah! I have been dvring the series and catching up on it as I can. It is very well done and I hope eveyone in the world eventually watches it! It is 100% REAL.
I was only able to catch the first half (will catch up later), but wow, what an informative show! I’m not a fan of journalists in general (in my experience they are selective in what they report or tend to sensationalize in order to make a name for themselves and sell their books), but I’m sorry for what Ms. Cooper suffered. We were told like everyone else that she was a suppressive. I remember the FBI protest at the time, but did not know the back story, so this was especially interesting.
One thought I had, though I’m not sure it would be real to some viewers, is to understand why people are drawn to Scientology and what the actual “hook” might be. Leah has mentioned this in part, but I would take it a bit further. I believe that more than a few people, on some level, perhaps buried beneath a lot of social invalidation or other indoctrination (or pain and suffering, or prior misdeeds), KNOW they are spiritual beings, separate from their bodies, and that they have lived before. So when someone finally acknowledges this, they go “ZING!” and their ears perk up, ready to hear more.
The Buddhists and Hindus speak of the endless cycle of birth, death and reincarnation (I would add amnesia), with the goal of trying to escape this cycle, so this is not a new idea. The more one has suffered, the more one becomes desperate to escape this cycle by any means that is offered, willing to do (almost) anything or put up with (almost) anything that brings one that hope; the “almost” being the border of one’s self-integrity, honor or feeling of self-worth, the “Church” now having crossed that border for many who have left or are leaving.
In the West, Hubbard enunciated the Buddhist/Hindu views in more “scientific” terms, without the accompanying mysticism, which made it more approachable and understandable to westerners. He offered a means of “escape” from the birth/death cycle, as well as restoration of one’s memory and basic identity, which may or may not have been workable or true. I think this was more of a “hook” than wanting “mental powers” or “success”, at least for some of us who came in back in the day, and who were not raised in the “Church”. Just a thought…
L Ron Hubbard’s Scientology has no resemblance to Buddhism or Hinduism.
First of all Hinduism and Buddhism had a moral system.
The Eight Limbs of Yoga from Patanjali stated that if certain moral injunctions were not followed liberation would never happen.
Telling me the truth, not being greedy and non violence are a few of these injunctions.
A simple study of Ron’s life demonstrates he followed no moral injunction sanctioned by the wise.
The Buddhist Eight Fold path has similar injunctions. Especially non verbal violence and violence in general.
Ron was a liar, greedy for power and money (as told by Mayo) orchestrated violence against women (Paulette Cooper)
When you dedicate your life to these teachings and study them you discover L Ron Hubbard nowhere to be found.
Ron was a con man who believed in his own deception.
Its an insult to the Buddha and other saints to put a man who wished for suicide in their illustrious category.
I have a family member who is out of the church and won’t go back. This person has read the Debbie Cook email and a few other things, is aware of The Hole, beatings, abuse and disconnection abuse. That is why the person won’t return to the church and says that they cannot be trusted with the well-being of people, including public. Of course, as a public, this person has experienced all of the things that Scientologists do, and that is detailed here on a daily basis. One thing I know, is that this person is afraid of the church and considers that it can be dangerous because they verbalize it.
However, this person refuses to look at any more “entheta,” including Leah’s series, which I think is really helpful. This person could be considered to be a true believer in LRH and the tech, says that the tech is “perfect” and believes that LRH is the greatest humanitarian who gave up his life so we could have the tech. I realize that this is someone who believes very strongly – in spite of knowing what Miscavige is up to but how could this be addressed? I believe that there are many individuals or families that deal with this on some level, and want to help their loved ones, but how???!
Leah touched on this a bit when she described how her family members would tell her that she “needs help,” when she thought to herself about how they were the ones who needed help. This particular aspect may not be good for the show, but it is a valid point of how Scientology can affect a person’s mind, and how much this hurts the other people that they live with.
Dear Hennesy, not long ago I was almost that person. I to believed in the tech and was absolutely sure that the real problems of the church were wrong people in charge and high prices). I have a wife who cut the ropes almost immediately after she stepped out of org for the last time, she stopped communicating with any scientologist we knew (except my brother and her mother who are still in), stopped to use “tech” in her every day life and even talk about scn. I’am another story, scn for me was like drug addiction, I know that it is bad thing, I know that iam risking, but I used to relaps time after time. But every relaps period was shorter and shorter and now I can even go to the org as a real 1.1 (and get undetected by the world leaders in communications). It happened day by day, I found new things in life, I stopped to live in the bubble, I found new friends. Time is as an excellent cure and each man has his own pace of dissafecting.
Thank you Victor. I understand the flip flopping. It scares me to see someone that I care about do this. Especially when they say that they are thinking about going into the org and “handling” their situation (reading the internet), and in spite of everything they learned too. I have read some accounts of people who did this for a period of years and others, hardly at all. Thanks for reminding me.
I’m curious about something… What ending do you wish/foresee for this exposure? (Not a Scientologist, never hav been and don’t know any) I ask because this is a cult that obviously intelligent people fall into. Is there anything worthwhile about it? Do you feel it needs a reformation or should be disbanded altogether? Obviously Miscavige needs to leave as head, but if he should ever be forced to do so what do you think will (or should) happen? I’m genuinely curious. Thank you if you can respond and if you can’t, that’s cool too. Like I said, you are all very brave people but I’ve been fascinated by this and truly wonder what you think should happen with all this exposure. Keep up the great work!
Mike Rinder says
Stacy — I have written a lot about this on the blog in various articles. I think the organized church of scientology hierarchy should be disbanded and the practice of scientology can continue for those who wish to do so. They can succeed or fail based on whether what they do helps people and doesnt abuse them.
I will have to go back and read them. Fascinating. Thanks for your response and keep up the great work. Many, many people are rooting for you all!
Catarina Pupillo says
Why can’t the LAPD produce Miscavige’s wife? I would think that someone somewhere would force them to produce her.
Mike Rinder says
They are in the pocket of scientology. And unfortunately a religious organization can hide behind their “freedom of religion” and accuse everyone of bigotry and hatred and police and others are terrified of being labeled as such…
Since it’s thought that Shelly is at the Lake Arrowhead facility, I don’t understand why ignore LAPD and file the missing person with the San Bernardino Sheriff Dept.
Mike Rinder says
I guess that’s sort of an oddity.
First, when Leah filed her report, she had no idea that she might be at CST. She was told nothing.
For someone to NOW file such a report, they would either have to be in the jurisdiction of the San Berdoo Sheriff’s Office or they would have to say “I believe she is in your jurisdiction” — but if you believe she is in their jurisdiction she is not technically a “missing person.” Perhaps someone could say “this is her last known sighting” or something.
Not really sure how these things work but it’s an interesting question.
Thanks Mike, As well there is no evidence that Shelly was ever an LA County resident (we all know she wasn’t). She resided in Riverside County, as last seen. Just wondering.
Dear Mr. Rinder
Thank you and Leah Remini for doing so much to expose this scam that is harming so many families. I have never been involved in scientology but a couple of major lawsuits involving the “church” have taken place in my city/county (Bexar, TX) as well as one county over where my best friend lives (Comal, TX) and we’ve followed them with great interest.
Though I’m not fighting for somebody in my own family, I don’t feel like I can just sit by while these abuses to other people’s families continue to take place. What could they possibly get out of denying a mother the right to see her son’s body before he was buried? It wasn’t enough that she was forced to divorce her husband (why and where is he, btw?) and disconnect from her son who then DIED due to lack of medical care by “OT VIIIs”? Unfortunately I know that wasn’t even the final indignity visited upon Ms. de la Carriere as part of their smear campaign against her (and anybody willing to speak out against them) but as the mother of an only child, also a beautiful son, it’s the most heinous and I’m still very upset about it.
When you were asked on last night’s episode what we, the general public, can do to fight this you said we should contact our elected representatives. I am going to speak to the local and state representatives I know personally and I will write to the ones I don’t know and help organize others to do the same. What I would like from you is some guidance in composing these letters. What specifically should we be asking our representatives to do in order to effect change and bring an end to this? Any help you can provide is greatly appreciated and I am willing to help in any way I can.
Thank you again. Keep fighting the good fight!
Mike Rinder says
Thank you for making the effort.
Thank you, again, for the effort and personal sacrifices you and your family are being forced to endure to educate the general public about the abuses of scientology.
I also appreciate your explanation on this blog of exactly what tax-exempt status is and what it means. I think it’s really important for people to understand that some religious organizations get tax-exempt status, but simply having tax-exempt status does not make an organization a religion. There are obligations that the organizations claiming this status must meet in order to keep it that scientology is not doing and they are robbing all of us in the process.
Jeffrey Augustine has some great talking points here: https://scientologymoneyproject.com/2015/04/14/how-to-simply-and-effectively-report-the-church-of-scientology-to-the-irs/
Thank you for the excellent information. There is a link in the comments directly to a pdf form that can be filled in, printed, and sent to the IRS if anybody else needs it.
Harpoona Frittata says
In regard to Karen de la Carrierre you asked, “It wasn’t enough that she was forced to divorce her husband (why and where is he, btw?)”
Heber Jentzsch, Karen’s ex-husband and father of their now-deceased son Alexander, is now in his 80’s and has not been seen in public for years. Here’s an article providing more details of his internal exile to the cherch’s forced labor gulag http://tonyortega.org/2015/07/30/the-church-of-scientologys-forgotten-president-karen-de-la-carriere-on-heber-jentzsch/
Is he still alive?
Mary Smith says
Hi JPF, from my viewpoint in the church I would write about 1) removing the charity status with the IRS, 2) look into all the foreign people that they have working at FLAG (are these people truly free to leave as they keep their passports? and also they can only stay in the US so long on a religious visa.) I know of people that have been in the US much longer than 1-2 years. 3) child labor–when I was auditing I commented to my auditor about a 12 year Taiwanese boy they used as a runner. I had seen him for weeks. I said why isn’t he in school? Sure enough I never saw him again.
Thank you so much. What about the elder abuse issues I’ve been reading about? It seems that the way aging sea org members are (mis)treated is something advocacy groups (like AARP) and social service agencies should be taking a hard look at. Does scientology collect Medicare/Medicaid money for their care?
Andrew James says
HOW CAN WE GET THEIR TAX EXEMPT STATUS REVOKED? It seems the best way to bring this cult down is to hit them in the wallet.
I lost my best friend of 20 years to this scam of a group in 1975. I never saw him again.
Jeffrey Augustine has some great talking points here: https://scientologymoneyproject.com/2015/04/14/how-to-simply-and-effectively-report-the-church-of-scientology-to-the-irs/
Len Zinberg says
Thank you. You and Leah are masterfully unmasking the public facade of this organization and exposing the coercion and cruel deception that lies at it’s cold, calculating heart.
The public, and especially the Government should understand that both Scientology and radical Islam are similar in that they both create fanatical adherents who, in their delusions believe that the ends justify the means regardless of lives lost, or the suffering of innocents.
The ISIS magazine, Dabiq, is chillingly similar to Scientology propaganda, in tone as well as in appearance.
Wayne Borean aka The Mad Hatter says
Radical Christianity (Mike Pence is a radical Christian) and Radical Buddhism are just as bad.
In several Asian countries Radical Buddhists have run amok, killing ‘non-believers’.
In the USA Radical Christian groups like the David Koresh led Branch Dividians, a bunch of Pentecostal groups, and others have caused problems.
It all comes down to tolerance.
Susan Neill says
Hi Mike, I’m not a Scientologist but am watching the show and think you and Leah and all those you’ve interviewed are very brave and admirable. I first saw you interviewed on CNN and or 60 Minutes (not sure which) and frankly thought you were a very unlikable liar. Then I saw you in Going Clear and thought Wow, Mike Rinder. I remember him. Now he’s gotten out and he’s telling the truth and risking the wrath of those wackos! Again you’re very very brave!! One question though it may be an obvious one: Where does all the money go?? To the personal enrichment of Miscavage? Fair gaming?? Celebrity members’ comfort? All of these +??
Thanks and best of luck to you, Susan Neill
I know Mike is busy so I’ll throw in my 2 cents about where the money goes.
I’m sure Miscavige is nicely paid and has built up quite a bit of wealth. I would say though that this is where the majority of the money goes. Buying buildings – they have this crazy fixation on buildings. Bailing out their existing branches that are failing and probably cant even pay for their electricity bills. Legal fees – the church is extremely litigious and hire teams of very expensive lawyers. Part of the legal fees would include PI’s to harass and spy on and hack emails of their critics. But I think the majority of the funds end up in Swiss bank accounts. In the early ’70s, I personally counted out 2 million dollars into briefcases that were handcuffed to a few men on their way to deposit it into a Luxemburg bank that was in the name of the Founder. I don’t think that policy has changed too much from that time. The cult is evidently worth billions.
Here is a “church”, tax exempt, supposed charity organization. The only charity they care about is tipping the person who opens up their vault in Luxemburg so they can stash more of our tax payer dollars.
I am captivated by this series. I briefly attended the Scientology Center in San Diego CA. I found the introductory courses interesting and helpful. But I found the “praise” meetings unsettling with everyone getting up and shouting LRH. It sent up warning flags. My final straw was when I was being pressured to do the cleansing required before you could step onto the Bridge. Several of the people talked about how even your old sunburns would come out again during the cleansing. When I found out that as part of the cleansing I would be required to take Niacin (among other supplements) It became clear that this was a hoax, as I knew a common side effect of Niacin is something called a Niacin flush. It is a reaction to the Niacin in which your skin becomes red, inflamed, burns, and itches.Even so it was not easy to extricate myself from Scientology. I had people showing up at my home unannounced pressuring me to go back to the church. I had to threaten police action to get them to back off.
All of what is being said in this has the ring of truth, and it gives me the chills. I can’t believe they are still getting away with this!
Miranda H. says
I am simply immersed in this show and all that it is connected to. Thank you for what you have done and will continue to do to shed light on this ‘cult’ that is Scientology. My biggest question is, since leaving the ‘church’, have you found a religion/God? Are you now a follower of ‘something/someone’? Many thanks to you and Leah <3
To be fair, here’s someone who actually benefitted from Scientology.
Awesome TED talk.
B. Jones says
Great show, Mike and Leah. Hope you will be making a lot more episodes.
A suggestion, please do not let scientology words be said without a short explanation. Most viewers are non-scientologists. It can be as short as instead of saying, the Sea Org, say, the Sea Org, scientologys top management level… something like that.
I hope there will be whole episodes about 1) the Hole, 2) detainment against free will ie. on the FreeWinds and elsewhere, 3) regging thursday before 2 p.m.bank loans financial ruin, 4) gang sec checking recording and storing of and the abuse of confessional data to silence dissent, 5) mind control and brainwashing, net nanny software, dont read newspapers, dont question LRH, dont look for other information, Hubbard has all the information that is needed, 6) the FreeZone, what people has been doing in the FreeZone for some 35 years, and how they have been attacked 7) OSA, what OSA is doing, why, how, who is doing what, how fair game is carried out, in detail, 8) IAS, the real estate scam, 9) RTC, Miscaviges control and personal protection organization, 10) the parallels between nazism and scientology: dear leader, labor camps, mind control etc., 11) as many episodes as possible with individuals that have been fair gamed and abused by the cult. Thanks 🙂
And I hope there is an episode, maybe the last one about the deceptive and lies of the life of Ron.
Please have the experts like the authors of Piece of Blue Sky, Barefaced Messiah, Hana Whitfield etc on.
To deconstruct this dark church without dedicating a major part to the man whose injunctions, commands and doctrines are the unquestionable cause of these abuses will be a travesty.
It will be a great hole in the historical record. The world needs to know the man who created this.
Please do not avoid telling this story. I have heard the name DM many times. But not Ron.
And there is another seldom mentioned issue which is how the cult promotes the ‘advanced payment system’ where a person is encouraged to secure their ‘bridge to eternity’ at today’s prices by placing money on account for a specified service to be delivered at some point in the future.
At no time was it ever a consideration that the person would not end up doing that service, after all, $cientology is a one way affair ………….. you can get in but you can never leave. It’s a Hotel California!
Well these days there are a growing number of people who are saying ……………..”I don’t think I will ever do that course. Please return the money I placed on account but never used.” This is distinctly different from saying that you want a refund for services you did do but did not like the result.
After you do all of the steps required by the cults own policy to get a return of your advanced payment, the answer is “we are not going to discuss policy with you. You request is denied.” For the record, written documentation exists in present time to support this fact.
It is time to notify our legislators about the fraud known as $cientology.
You have another golden opportunity here to show the world that you can do the ethical action and return funds for which you incurred no liability. Interest on the money you have held is not even being requested, just a return of the advanced payments that you did not have to deliver.
What are the chances folks that the cherch is going to do the ethical action here?
Any comments good buddy?
“You’re an SP. Your only terminal is IJC.”
NL (No love)
another great show – really, really enjoyed it. i hope it didn’t fall too far under the radar, but the part with jeffery augustine talking about the contracts people sign was really revealing. leah’s reaction was spot-on.
i have to wonder how much of this is getting through to the scio’s tasked with keeping an eye on the media. do they have to watch all of the episodes from start to finish? if so, then it has to be crumbling from the inside.
one small criticism, and maybe it’s the editing, or maybe it’s just me being an introvert with a loud family and therefore i am hypersensitive to it, but i wish leah would listen more and interrupt less when others are talking.
Kathy H. says
Those contracts were a big eye-opener for this never-in. What kind of “church” requires members to sign contracts? (Of course, real churches aren’t run by someone laughably referred to as the chairman of the board!)
Carl Chris Christophersen says
Just keep doing what you and Leah are doing. I had not clue what was happening uplines. Even being in the Sea Org at Flag, I had no idea what dirtbag davie was doing, I am curious enough, and fortunate not to have had family members who were in, that, had I gotten a glimpse or heard a peep about what was going on, I would have looked. So keep it up — some of it might get through. Of course, as you know, in the S.O. you do not watch any TV and are not allowed to have cell phones — not to mention, we were on post, 16 hours a day — and LIbs went south for the most part. I have a good friend, an OT 8 (who had originally got me into Scn back in 1977), that had gotten very disillusioned, unfortunately after “donating” over $700,000 to the various “causes”, and dropped out — he is not the type to go public. He has reverte4d to Christianity and his only connection to COS is me. I told him about Leah’s Aftermath Special — he just emailed me that he is now watching and some things were really impacting him, since he had experienced the same abuse. He hated the idea of picking up the cans again. Keep it coming. I do hope you get Marty involved — I suspect that he knows more than you do. Very few know who Pat Broeker is, so getting him would not be effective. Showing those videos of Debbie Cook (who I understand has been bought off), are very effective. Also Ronnie & Bittie Miscavige, just being related to dirtbag and Ronnie (especially) knows the dirtbag would also be effective — it doth appear that they are also bought off. I am sure you know best — keep it coming.
Wayne Borean aka The Mad Hatter says
Ron appears tonight, so no, it does not appear he was bought off.
Mark Rathbun has made hints that he is doing something.
Debbie was sued by the COS, who backed off and paid her a settlement, which they wouldn’t have needed to do if COS hadn’t sued hr in the first place (and got a day of her testimony on record with the courts).
Harpoona Frittata says
“Mark Rathbun has made hints that he is doing something.”
What hints are you referring to there? I was under the distinct impression that he’d stepped completely away from doing anything like Mike and Leah are doing. Even further, he’s been quite vocal in being critical of many of the more high-profile individuals who are dedicated critics of the cherch, some of whom have been featured contributors to Leah’s series.
Wayne Borean aka The Mad Hatter says
Mark left a rather cryptic comment on his blog a while back. Most people would probably miss the reference he used, but I’m an omnivorous reader, and understood it.
I have no clue what he is doing, or intends to do, but his comment was quite clear. I suspect Mark is like me, and loves to say things that people aren’t likely to understand.
Harpoona Frittata says
Yes, I gathered that, but exactly what comment(s) are you referring to?
” I suspect Mark is like me, and loves to say things that people aren’t likely to understand.”
Boy howdy, but just wait until you begin to be unintelligible even to yourself…that’s where the true joy lies 😉
Hana Whitfield says
Dear Mike, What an incredible segment! So very glad you and Leah brought Paulette and Chris and Karen’s shocking experiences into the present. Your valuable work will help explain to Scientologists and the general public and hopefully government officials how Hubbard used undue influence and manipulation in his ideology – books, taped lectures, policies and bulletins – to con even the smart. Give people a worthwhile goal, restore their sense of hope, and reel them in. Hubbard constructed his ideology with clear intent … there’s no other way it happened. Can’t wait for your next segments! Hugs, hugs good friend!
Mike Rinder says
🙂 hearts to you Hana. You have been standing tall for a lot longer than I have! And always with such grace and dignity.
It’s very rewarding to read two ex members acknowledge each other’s ex member contributions to speaking up.
Rebecca West says
I believe you should haveadequate it clearer from the beginning that the wife of David I’d MISS ING still and make a,show going through the steps, on camera, going on the road, police to try and find her!!! Why are you sitting back doing nothing to rescue her. Even if she won’t go, at least you can get her on camera.
Wayne Borean aka The Mad Hatter says
Leah Remini is ‘doing things’ including having an attorney pressure the LAPD to release details of the investigation done when she filed a missing person report on Shelly. The LAPD has never communicated with Leah about the investigation, instead they told the media that Shelly wasn’t missing. When asked, the LAPD was non-specific about how they determined that Shelly wasn’t missing.
This leads people like me who have nasty and suspicious minds to believe there is something wrong with the LAPD investigation, and the that cops are trying to cover it up.
And how exactly would you do that Rebecca when she is being held behind a security fence that you would have to break down to get access. The only real result of that is that YOU would be prosecuted for tresspassing onto private property.
“Why are you sitting back doing nothing to rescue her?”
I loved how last night’s show informs the viewer the church NEVER refutes any charges against it but instead responds with smear tactics. Then on the next station break you see for the umpteenth time the church’s disclaimers about Leah and Mike and how they were kicked out of the church for behaviors not measuring up to high church standards!
Well, we just got treated to some more lovely examples of the church’s high standards of behavior. Karen de la Carrier’s story about her son is indicting on many levels and is a revolting tale. Paulette Cooper’s story is a horror story of demonic villainy and demonstrates the villainy is woven into the very doctrines of the church by its founder.
The big lie the church tells about its Fair Game Policy being cancelled is now publicly exposed as balderdash. One by one the church’s lies are being discussed knowingly and tellingly by people who are sincere, erudite and likable. All the interesting little details the church doesn’t want people to know about are being televised and many of those who don’t see the show will hear about it from those who have seen it.
The show ends with the question as to whether Chris Sheldon will finally get his own scientology smear website and video. It doesn’t seem fair that he be excluded. After all his hard work he deserves the honor. I would support a petition to the church to make it happen. Besides, can the church afford to praise him with scant condemnation?
Karen’s story about Alexander Jentzsch is horrible. Alexander’s story itself is disgusting. The statutory rapist never had to register as a sex offender because she was never reported to law enforcement and is walking free and clear to this day. Alexander at age 12 was used as a child slave worker cleaning toilets and floors at Flag instead of living a normal life. Probably made to feel guilty for the sex, that he created it or “pulled it in”, was out-ethics and a bad person for what happened to him. I sincerely hope that more children’s stories come out. I know someone who was recruited at the age of 12. He’s out now, but doesn’t talk about it because his parents are still in the church, and he’s hoping that they will come to their senses some day.
Harpoona Frittata says
Kudos to A&E for backing this hard-hitting series exposing the cult! However, there’s absolutely no need to put up the exact same disclaimer by the cherch or put up their smear quotes at every commercial break. Once at the beginning of the program and once at the end is more than sufficient. The cult isn’t going to sue and there’s no new informational value in endlessly putting up the same stuff to mollify the cult, so time to cut back on that and provide more air time to series’ topics of concern!
It never occurred to me the excessive displaying of scientology disclaimers had anything to do with the show sucking up to scientology. Instead I assumed it is done purposely to turn the disclaimers into a running joke.
I agree with Harpoona on the disclaimers showing at every commercial break. Enough with that already, Just show one disclaimer at beginning and one at the end. Why should we help the church drive traffic to their site of lies? Also I want to thank A & E for their bravery to handle cults in general. Today I saw a show on A &E about a fundamentalist Mormon cult of polygamists in Utah called, “The Order.” The A& E show as showing people escaping and asking for help to escape that cult. I was struck by the similarities of how that cult handles their members and how David Miscavige and his cult handles their members. Saying you’ll lose your eternity if you don’t disconnect from family…. the other cult says you won’t go to heaven and will go to hell instead if you don’t disconnect…. and if you leave the Mormon cult, everyone disconnects from you, same as Scn. And there are beatings, abuse both physical and emotional and spiritual in the Mormon polygamist cult, just like in the Scn cult. I applaude A&E for exposing all of them.
I became interested, and horrified, about Scientology when Jenna Miscavige Hill’s book popped up on my Kindle as a Kindle best seller. I thoroughly enjoyed it. I watched some of her talk show appearances on YouTube and liked them as well. I think that she would be a great addition to your program as she experienced the mistreatments as a child. She did hours and hours of manual labor, had little school time, and was responsible for dispensing medications. All at age 7. If she doesn’t want to appear on the show than you all should use exerts from her book.
Barbara Carr says
This the first time I*ve ever commented on anything to do with Scientology, although I*ve been absolutely fascinated by this subject for years. My thanks to both Mike and Leah for getting this out on a fairly mainstream tv show. Before this series the most informative one was ** going Clear. ** on HBO. I hope Aftermath will reach a much broader audience. I*d certainly follow an expanded version of this story if the option is ever available. I hope A and E will consider renewing this. I believe there is much more material than can be covered in the limited number of episodes now planned. The more we know the stronger we*ll become. I also agree that a plausible answer on fighting this skewed religion is contacting my government representatives. I so look forward to more information, and therefore more understanding of your struggle to shine a very bright light on a very dark and destructive organization. Please continue.
Kathy H. says
The ratings have been exceptional, definitely worthy of renewal, very high by A&E standards. A&E deserves a lot of credit for risking the litigious wrath of the church.
Mike … I find this religion fascinating, but not in a good way. For the first time last night I was beginning to understand the foundation this religion is based on. I have to be honest there’s no logic to this religion in my opinion. It’s confusing… This organzation prays on the weak, children and those searching for truth. What I find to be most disgusting is that an organization presented as a religion would charge people to find enlightenment . How can someone put a price on a spiritual connection ? I’m glad that Scientology is being revealed for being a scam.
Mike Rinder says
Thanks. I think logic and religion are almost mutually exclusive. Religion is based on faith. Faith does not require logic. If it did, it would be reason.
Mike! We are watching every second of Aftermath. Your A Good Man, Charlie Brown.
What church does not advocate keeping families together?? Free will?
You guys don’t stop!
Maria Doyle says
Watching the documentary it brings back memories of when I was a teenager in the 70’s and scientologists had myself and my friends go into their office on Yonge Street in Toronto. I remember feeling uncomfortable and not understanding what it was about. We ate the cookies they offered us and left. I am not a religious person and view any religion that separates and segregates families as a crime and they should be convicted.
I’m so happy you did this documentary. Hopefully you will save other families from this horrible cult.
I liked the show a lot; I think the series is SMASHING.
I would like to see a hard hit on the mindset of JT (he doesn’t need to watch because….) or my son (I’m a bad parent because I’m not supporting his goals in and with scientology). Take a wrecking ball to that “logic” with a big swing and actually talk about the videos made by Christie’s parents, your son, my son and stupid comments by JT.
(How upsetting it would be to their world to look at, hear, watch, confront and know the truth.)
Yes. I know. There’s only so much time. Maybe when you film episode 10 Or in season 2. ???
Anyone have a link for the show? Thanks in advance. Peace xo Disa
Gary Webb says
Thank you Mike
Jane doe says
Check out Golden Era Productions and the deaths there. I saved a girl running down the street in Hemet right along side the studio she was naked with burn marks on her. She said they were making her do porn. I don’t want to be Gang stalked. But look in to this.
Mike Rinder says
Well, I was at that base for 15 years and I am unaware of anything even remotely resembling porn happening there. I am willing to believe a lot of things, but this one I take exception to.
He’s got a point Jane. Got any documentation?
I seriously doubt that the girl you saw Jane, had anything to do with the CoS. Porn is something that parishioners get interrogated or security checked for. You will not be allowed to continue your progress up The Bridge if you have an unchecked porn habit. Porn is considered to be an ‘aberration’ in Scientology, and any participation with it is penalized.
Leah and Mike and all – You guys are doing a wonderful job with a very difficult subject. In my opinion, you’re a class above for sticking to what matters, and both Leah and Mike put it Monday night. (I forgot who said it first.)
I agree! They are Sticking to what matters. It’s about the abuses; it’s about the abuses; it’s about the abuses!
Seems somewhat romantic: You and Lou against the world.
But isn’t it kind of a mood killer to have Mike, Leah, and friends slapping you around?
Link for episode https://rutube.ru/video/32d171449839f6bdf6df7e5dc83215af/?pl_id=1306538&pl_type=user
Yay Victor… Thank you ?
I have followed the stories and read a lot of books by those that left the organization. I was wondering what ever happened to Heber Jentzsch. I heard he was in the hole for quite a few years but it would have been nice to follow up on his whereabouts currently.
I read Tony’s book about Paulette and that is really a mind blower! Glad you got her to tell her story.
Katie Newby says
I have so much respect for what you both are doing. I left a religion/cult when I was a teenager & it amazes me how every ex-member of something, Scientology or otherwise, end up feeling so many of the same emotions.
Two thing I would love if you touched on would be the actual belief system of Scientology- what happens after death, ect… I notice Leah shys away from the topic but viewers want to know.
Secondly, does coming out of Scientology instill fear in ex-members about ever seeking religion again?
scientology teaches that after death we take up a new body and come back again, hence why Sea Org members sign a billion year contract, the idea is that they come back time and time again. Of course the fact that virtually no one has any memory of living a past life had to be explained as well which is where scientology goes all sci fi with what hubbard called a ‘between lives area’ who apparently run an implant station to make us forget our previous life, (I think I’ve remembered that correctly, its been e few years)
Scientology did kill off my interest in most religion, I’m very wary of looking at anything else now.
Mike Remeika says
I would like to respectfully comment on your statement that “virtually no one has any memory of living a past life”. You might be interested in books by Dr. Michael Newton titled “Journey of Souls” and “Destiny of Souls”. In these books he shares the memories of people who were deeply hypnotized and asked questions about what happened to them the last time they died. Fascinating reading. I suggest you also check out the reviews for these books. They are available on paper and Kindle.
A friend who has never been in wrote her congressman
just from hearing me talk about this series. Great work
by Leah and Mike. Love the way they go back and forth
from very emotional to serious analytical. So real.
Thanks, and I do not think it could be better, except it
should be going on after the 8 scheduled …
Diane Williams says
Mike and Leah — please cover how they became a ‘religion’ and their ‘war’ with the IRS. I think that will make viewers understand why it’s a ‘church’.
Diane Williams says
Last night’s episode was great. I’m glad you guys answered viewer questions. I felt so badly for the woman whose soname died because they wouldn’t get him medical attention. So sad and outrageous.
I really wish you would cover the whole Xenu thing. I know the story but there are many who don’t. It will give some insight into the madness of LRH.
Mike, thank you and Leah for all you are doing. I hope everyone who watches will make calls or send emails to make them lose their tax exempt status. I also hope the police will seriously investigate the missing person report on Shelly Miscavige.
Mike Cook says
Mike and Leah, you have done such an amazing job bringing to light the abuses of this oppressive Religion. Especially, appreciate your willingness to share your personal heart wrenching stories and finding other real people who have been negitively effected by being disconnected from their families. Keep up the great work and stay the course! My congressman will be hearing from me since the family unit is the most important in both my Faith and State.
Lisa G says
I’m not nor have I been a Scientologist, but I really appreciate you and others for coming out and risking what you have to help people stay away from this cult. Making people feel good about themselves in the beginning and feeling spiritual is what a lot of cults have in common and that’s how they lure people in. Lost people and people needing to find that spiritual place within are so susceptible to Scientology and other cults so I’m happy that you, Leah, and others are sharing your stories to make people aware to stay away. Thanks!
C.S. Morris says
I became interested in the travesty that is Scientology after watching a compelling HBO documentary in which you appeared. When I discovered that Leah was pushing forward with her tell all on A&E, I was both curious and excited to watch. The program is so compelling. It is also difficult to watch, knowing that so many people are living with the scars of the psychological, physical and emotional abuse they have endured at the hands of monsters. I have shed tears along with those who shared their stories; most especially those who have been “disconnected” from their families. It is a testament to the strength of said individuals that they speak out: knowing there are consequences beyond reason and legality awaiting them. Please know that I am committed to writing my congressmen and senators to push them toward beginning an investigation into Scientology and withdrawing the IRS acceptance of this corporation as a religion, thus paying no taxes. I hope, with all my being, that Scientology falls soon and falls hard. You and Leah have inspired me to join the fight!
A little off topic but isn’t today the deadline for the LAPD to respond to Leah’s (lawyers) request for details/documents re: leah’s missing person report on shelly?
It was my understanding they had 7 days in which to respond and produce specifics regarding their investigation.
Wayne Borean aka The Mad Hatter says
Do you want to make a bet? My guess is the LAPD will release a report so heavily redacted that it will not answer any questions, at which point Leah’s lawyer will request an unredacted copy and the dance begins again.
Has there been any handover of information that anyone’s aware of? Or even a public comment from the LAPD about leahs request?
I have literally been counting down the days waiting for some sort of revelation regarding shellys wellbeing and whereabouts.
Kathy H. says
Mentioning your blog on the show is what directed me to come here. You should regularly mention it. Thank you, Mike, for exposing this cult for what it really is. Unfortunately in today’s society many people don’t take notice of certain things until a celebrity lends their voice to the cause. You and Leah keep up the good work!
The way Karen de la Carriere was mistreated makes my blood boil. Like others have said, as I watch the show, I’m crying, pausing to stomp around, gritting my teeth as I spew obscenities…
I am still extremely angry about the treatment of the elderly in the so-called church. Reading the details of Claire Reppin’s last years also makes me furious! I know there are many more stories like hers to be told.
Thank you for exposing the evil nature of this group that I was once a part of. You will save so many people from ever experiencing the heartache that ALWAYS comes with it.
Mike Moretti says
Dear Mike Rinder
Just a suggestion…….
maybe part of the series should include something like………… you/we, give Scientology / Miscavige an amnesty, for him/them to come clean, and become a real asset to mankind, that they want so much to salvage.
Wayne Borean aka The Mad Hatter says
You make the assumption that David Miscavige considers what he is doing to be wrong. There is no evidence that he does, and a lot of evidence that he doesn’t. Mike has a lot of it documented here.
Dave would love that!!!! Perhaps we could have Andersen Cooper present it!
Mat Pesch says
Great show. I hope you use footage from the testimony of Debbie Cook when it comes to exposing the abuse of Miscavige. That testimony is VERY powerful footage.
Wayne Borean aka The Mad Hatter says
You and Leah are doing a wonderful job. Is it perfect? Probably not, but…
My never-in wife, who has been wondering for years why I’ve been so obsessed with Scientology, was in the room when I put on the first episode (I love DVRs) to rewatch it, and within minutes she was riveted on the tv. She watched with horrified fascination.
By the time we’d watched all the episodes, she was furious, and she hasn’t seen last night’s extra episode yet!
I really would like to see further episodes, going into details on certain subjects, like one on Shelly and her disappearance, one on The Hole, and of course other people who have had their lives and families torn apart.
I’d like to see an episode covering just Paulette with full details on the hell the church put her through.
EUGENE OBRIEN says
The best and most informative program on TV. Absolutely compelling and riveting shows. Thank you and Leah for being so brave and honest.
As I watched the Leah Remini Scientology documentary this evening I googled for more info and came up with the Aftermath Letters written by Karin Pouw. I was intrigued by the video they posted at http://www.scientologynews.org/statements/august-2016/mike-rinder.html
As I was watching it, I happened to notice two pieces of “proof” they showed when talking about the “abuse” done at your hands. One a report was from ‘Emergency Services’ which stated Catherine Rinder on 4/27/10?? (date hard to read) at age 56, was treated after an incident including her shoulder and “abuse” by her ex-husband.
The other report was from Desert Regional Medical Center which said ‘Cathy Bernadini’ age 60, was seen on 5/21/10, 4 weeks after an altercation in which her shoulder was permanently damaged by her former husband.
It’s amazing that they call you a “wife-beater”, but cannot get the facts straight. I am glad that in 3 weeks time I don’t age by 4 years. Anyway, that is one story put out by Scientology I hope no one believes.
Mike Rinder says
Well, this is the least of the problems. That these two reports have a conflict in her age may not be the fault of scientology. But what IS the fault of scientology is not including the conclusion of the incident report from the Pinellas County Sheriff’s Office (I covered this in a post on entitled Mike Rinder: “Lady Killer”), but for ease of readers this is what it says:
Based on the information I received during the investigation it appears that Michael was intentionally followed to the doctor’s office and confronted either due to his departure from the Church of Scientology or his desire to break his ties with his family. Although Catherine did receive an abrasion on her arm the injury was likely caused during incidental contact with Michael was attempting to move away from the group rather than an intentional battery.
Disposition: Case closed, solved non criminal.
I want to be one more person to say – Thank you. You speak to my soul. I hear you. I ache with you. I’m ready to hear more. Change is going to happen.
We hear you.
I Yawnalot says
I just watched episode 3. Bit of lag in this part of the world but geezers what a confusing muddle it made in my head. I found myself starting to subjectively disagree with the all out, “how bad ALL Scientology is and the meter never lies”. I have never had that experience with one but I have never used one suppressively either or had one used against me to make me wrong for non-compliance. Lots of ridiculous sec checks yes, but apparently before it was employed as a weapon of disgrace by the Cof$. I had to look very hard to undo the mental conditioning I had had trained into myself by the church and separate it out from the good times I also had. But evidence is evidence, I can accept it. That said, I guess I found out more about how I operate as myself at the same time. I knew when to walk away (just like I did to end my military career which sickened me thoroughly with what I was trained to do) So I was sort of pre-trained to be able to walk away from the Church.
The interview with Mary sat me heavily back in the chair and I saw my own extended family and my wife’s family ripped apart by the church and to be honest I was motivated to go find the ones responsible.
A very sobering episode and my dislike of the Cof$ grew a couple of notches.
In summary, great job Leah and Mike but geezers what a head trip. The Church of Scientology must go, there can be no compromise on that. Be a lot easier to pick up the pieces than to compromise in any way, shape or form with them. To that group of people born into that mess I feel the most. How to help them wouldn’t be easy and it must be a real struggle to live with. Best of luck, I really mean it.
Terri Gamboa says
Wow – Mike and Leah, your shows are just incredible, informative and mind blowing, you are spearheading a major transformation of exposing the church. You have given everyone a voice, a shoulder, a purpose and a chance for justice. Your show is so powerful, hard-hitting, warm and caring….. the first two of those always done well by the church but the 2nd two not done nor understood by the church at all.
We all gather with excitement and pride to watch each of your episodes and each one just gets better and better and more revealing. You are a great team together, very warm and with great rapport, so nice to see and a pleasure to watch. Please continue and know that we support you in every way and will do what we can to help when needed. We are making a donation to your cause tonight on your website. Stay strong and please continue to carry the torch, we will follow you closely and are right there with you cheering you on.
Mike Rinder says
Thank you so much Terri. It means a lot coming from you.
Sandia Sparkks says
I am a 64 year young woman and heard him myself on a talk show when I was about 15 years old where he talked about writing science fiction and how he was now writing a book about starting his own church because he didn’t want to pay taxes and he felt he could do this. I read his dianetics book and it was B.S. to me. I don’t remember what show he was on but it stayed with me about WHAT he said and why he was going to do it. This was the time of Big Cults so his belief was that there were a whole lot of people out there that would agree with his writings. I thought he was Crazy but even at that young age, I thought he just might be crazy enough to do it. To me, he looked like a nut job. He talked about how he could make people believe in his “Church” just like he made people believe in his science fiction novels and he could take the premise of his books and build a church that would grant him tax free exemptions.
Hey Dave, you feeling the squeeze yet?
Old Surfer Dude says
And no…you can’t be my main squeeze.
Drew Murphy says
You are doing an amazing thing by standing up and being a voice for those who thought they couldnt speak…Id like to wish you and your family all the best in the future. Fight the good fight and never give up!
Michael OKane says
I’m enjoying the show and the job you both are doing. However I’m curious about one thing, was scientology always corrupt? Were Hubbards intentions good when the religion was founded and was the corruption gradual or did it happen all at once.
Keep up the good work.
There are widely varying points of view on those topics. With regard to Hubbard’s intentions, some of us believe they were good and that the corruption was gradual. – and most people think the rate of corruption accelerated after Miscavige took over.
Believe me, Hubbard put a lifetime of very precise thought into bringing about the best results, and he had / has the very best of intentions. The entire story is not easy to tell, not knowing who you are, not being able to see and judge your reactions, not knowing to go faster or slower, not knowing when to be quiet and listen. No one had succeeded in precisely defining this phenomenon we refer to as “life”. Part of the problem(s) arose because individuals thought that by defining life, Scn was life itself, in a manner of speaking or thinking, and would assume all responsibility for them, if only they followed orders. The “Axioms of Scientology” are clearly labeled “Axioms of Scientology”, but because they do deal with life, over time, individuals somehow magically come to read those as “Axioms of Life”. I have talked with many who do that. Hubbard was not illiterate. If he had mean to to say “Axioms of Life” I feel reasonably certain he would have written that. These individuals didn’t see Scn as an objective study and methodology, and didn’t see clearly enough that each individual must take responsibility for his own life. The balance of responsibility was imbalanced. So those individuals became very easy to manipulate. Just re-interpret LRH, make it seem to say something else, and you have a ready-made following. The corruption started, as I see it, when Hubbard left the church. Mike would tell me Hubbard was fully in control past 1976. But during that time, he was in seclusion, only a handful knew where he was, and I see a difference in the church functioning beginning right around 1976. Prices went through the roof, changes to the original auditing format were made, the tone became less friendly and more bullying. During the 1976 – 1986 period, Hubbard, growing old, almost died. Mayo (Senior Case Supervisor International), I’m told, rescued him for another few years. I wasn’t there, this is just what I’ve pieced together. Perhaps the most easily understandable answer to your questions, is simply that many of the more intelligent, saner, and more socially adjusted individuals – in my opinion, of course – quietly left, or began leaving, the church after 1976, probably the most notable exodus being that which followed Mayo’s abrupt storming out ca. 1982. During that same time, many of the “old timers” who had been with Hubbard from back in the 1950’s and 1960’s were declared to be suppressive personalities. These were very probably the most proven productive and helpful individuals in the church. Probably the most notable example is the Saint Hill organization. I have read that something like 76% of the original staff were declared. How all this could possibly happen, possibly will be clarified tomorrow night on A&E. I hope so.
Don’t know if the above is a satisfactory answer to you, but I hope it may shed some sense of light on the whole picture!
One other thing that strikes me right in the face. If you ask a non-Scn, “What is ethics?” you will most probably get a thoughtful pause, then a reply along the lines of, “Isn’t that the difference between right and wrong?” But if you ask a Scn, still in, or now out, the same question, my advice to you is to duck right after you ask it. That goes back to personal responsibility, and the imbalance that was created, and it goes to the rampant downright abuse of Scn ethics – as in “disconnection” – in many areas. Ethics is the be-do-have of life. Aristotle spoke at great lengths about ethics, lectured on ethics. Hubbard created such an enormous vacuum between what he knew, and the commonly accepted explanations or not-knowns about life, that people gave up (mistakenly, in my opinion) their views, to adopt his. He became “the word”, to them, readily accepted. I’m not saying he was wrong (I have yet to find something wrong). I’m saying that people who gave up their views were, in my opinion, mistaken (wrong) to do that. Hubbard consistently counseled against doing so, but many people just went, “Wow! How wise!” and proceeded to follow even more blindly. (Life can be hilarious, if you can tolerate watching worlds burn.) And those individuals became easy to manipulate, by twisting what Hubbard has said, by evaluating how that should be carried out. Were it not for Hubbard, Miscavige would be just another unheard of man among millions. You apparently simply cannot make a great discovery without, as Hubbard wittily put it, being “Silly enough to want to become famous”. To me Scientology is at least in major part, about defining and developing one’s own personal ethics. Some may agree with me, but somehow I get the feeling most do not.
Wayne Borean aka The Mad Hatter says
Everything that David Miscavige does is straight out of the L. Ron Hubbard playbook.
Like you at once I wondered if the abuses were specific to Miscavige. They aren’t. Hubbard locked children in the chain locker of his ship, the Apollo, where if there had have been movement of the anchor chains, the kids could have been injured, or killed.
Things may have gotten worse under Miscavige. Mike and Terri Gamboa could comment with authority on this, both were on the Apollo with Hubbard.
Wayne the difference I see is that Hubbard also helped people. He audited people and traimned them on how to help others. At the same time, he ran his organization ike a Mafia. Miscavige does not help anyone that I know of, and never has. Thus he at best uses only one side of Hubbard’s “playbook”, the running a Mafia side of it, and completely leaves out the positive side.
Hey Michael, just read the above link that Mike has called: Dealing with Scientology Critics; The L Ron Hubbard Playbook.
Read all of the writings and look at the dates they were written. Then come to your own conclusion. Also, the worst happened to Paulette Cooper. Way before Miscavige.
Miscavige has his own style and frequency of abuse. But he learned how to abuse from these writings above.
L Ron Hubbard is source. It’s starts and ends with his instruction for abuse.
Diane Williams says
Watch the documentary Going Clear. It will give you huge insight into the mind of this madman.
Mike Wynski says
Michael OKane, a few things we know for CERTAIN.
1) Hubbard was a sociopath BEFORE starting Dianetics/scamology.
2) He lied about pretty much everything to do with his “creations”.
3) He lied in order to make more money off of his followers.
4) He was extremely vicious towards any criticism or attempts to disclose the truth about him, his real past and his creations.
5) He was willing and capable of committing major felonies to protect his dishonest conduct.
So, from that data, you can decide your question for yourself.
Hubbard ran a greedy Mafia-like organization, but I question whether he could be classified as a sociopath because he evidently had a positive side, too, as related by many people who knew him personally.
Barbara Carr says
Sociopaths will represent a good side when it makes them look good to others or feel good about themselves. They will show kindness and generosity when it has a pay back. They*ll tear up with sentimentality by only relating to someone’s difficulties as those difficulties would pretain to self. They generally have a great capacity for manipulation and actually cause others to think absolutely narcissistic actions are selfless. It’s sad, but we have to be on guard to keep ourselves and our loved ones safe.
I guess the question is, was he faking it? Some folks who knew him felt he was genuine.
Mike Wynski says
iamvalkov, Anyone who kidnaps their own baby daughter, threatens to cut her up into small pieces and feed them to fish unless the mother does what he wants IS a sociopath by definition. It is ipso facto in other words.
“Having a “positive” side is irrelevant with a person such as that.
The question you ask is a loaded question. You will note that there are people who post here who still believe that LRH was good and that David Miscavige alone is responsible for all that is wrong in scientology. I think the difference betwen the old timers and the newer people is that the internet allows people to research their questions without the fear we had back then. We simply “accepted” that we were faulty and that if we hung on long enough we could be repaired by scientology. Now the internet is allowing those willing to look to have the scales taken off their eyes.
I used to believe LRH’s intentions were good and the change in scientology came after he lost control. Then one day I read Bare-faced Messiah by Russell Miller which woke me up and forced me to start re evaluating the lies I had told myself and the atrocious deeds I had done in the name of protecting the “almighty” L. Ron Hubbard and I was humbled and embarrassed and to a degree angry that I had believed he was good for so long.
He was, as is generally the case, quite a charismatic man for a sociopathic liar, but he was a liar. He lied about his entire past history in order to make himself look like someone he wasn’t. This quote best describes what his entire goal in life was.
“Living is a pretty grim joke, but a joke just the same. The entire function of man is to survive. The outermost limit of endeavour is creative work. Anything less is too close to simple survival until death happens along. So I am engaged in striving to maintain equilibrium sufficient to at least realize survival in a way to astound the gods. I turned the thing up so it’s up to me to survive in a big way . . . Foolishly perhaps, but determined none the less, I have high hopes of smashing my name into history so violently that it will take a legendary form even if all books are destroyed.”
A letter to his wife Polly (October 1938), quoted in Bare-faced Messiah: The True Story of L. Ron Hubbard (1987), p. 81.
I recommend you read the book. It’s an eye opener.
Good that you posted the whole quote. People focus on the part about “smashing my name into history,” but almost never mention this was in the context of surviving “in a way to astound the gods” and that doing so would be by means of “the outermost limit of creative work.”
Basically, the whole quote is open to interpretation, and I believe most people read it with their minds already made up.
I watched the documentary “Scientology and me ” in 2014 which peaked my interest in researching Scientology and how people get trapped in this cult(or should I say “held prisoner”. Both you and Leah have done such a great job at bringing to light all the injustices, abuse, and broken families. I fully intend to write letters to our elected officials in Florida immediately. I am in awe of your bravery in standing up for what is right. I truly believe Scientology will fall apart as these truths are finally being spoken.
I have been watching from day 1 for many personal reasons. Years ago a friend of mine tried to recruit me when I was a teenager. Tonight’s ask me episode ended with that Jounalist’s compelling story that reminded me of my favorite mantra, “Tell the truth,” Even through the lawsuits and “Fair gaming” attacks and ultimate exhonoration HUGE PRAISE FOR THE FBI, Her story of one voice and her courage showed what bravery looks like. One day Mr Rinder you will be able to do something else because Scientology will come to its end! In the light of truth, nothing is hidden.
Mike, thank you for your courage. The work that Leah and you are doing is so much larger than the ‘church.’ Stay the course. There is an army behind you. ?
It’s amazing TV. It’s a hit. Very moving. You guys Rock. I love you.
Will there be more on Hubbard? Seems a missing essential.
Maybe your doing that part later.
I applaud you and Leah for bringing light to such a complex conversation. The stories of everyone on the show are so heart wrenching, at times it is difficult to understand how a “religion” can possibly get away with treating people like this. Which bring me to my question. How is it that Scientology is known as a “religion”? What steps did they have to take to get classified or recognized as such?
Wayne Borean aka The Mad Hatter says
Scientology is not classified as a religion in the United States. No organization is classified as a religion. Because the the American Constitution, the US Federal and State governments are not allowed to classify groups as religions.
The Church of Scientology, like the Roman Catholic Church, etc. are classified as charitable organizations, and charitable organizations are tax exempt assuming they follow certain rules.
While the Church of Scientology doesn’t follow those rules, the IRS has not revoked their tax exempt status. There is a lot of background to this, including a large number of church members suing the IRS. Effectively Scientology buried the IRS with lawsuits, damaging the ability of the IRS to operate. Scientology also used private detectives to harass IRS officials. There is a pile of information on the Church of Scientology’s actions here, and at the Underground Bunker, with links to further information.
How is it that Scientology is a valid “religion” vs say, a social group, or what it really is is a cult? How do they qualify as a real religion!
They won a major case in the 1990s in which they were granted tax exempt status and so no longer were required to pay taxes to the IRS. It was a major victory, sadly, for the scientologists. This is why they can legally call themselves a “religion”
Wayne Borean aka The Mad Hatter says
See my comment to Tracy. Scientology, like all ‘religions’ is classified as a charitable organization.
Mike Wynski says
Liz, in the United States that is governed by the Constitution. The 1st Amendment. The government has no power to decide what is and what isn’t a “religion”. Otherwise the 1st Amendment would be completely gutted on that part of it and employers would be taking part of your salary for churches. Like many countries in Europe.
Lorna Carleton says
Great job Leah and Mike, and everyone else helping to make this a fantastic series. A show like this was a long time coming, and thankfully, you are doing it. Many lives and families will be saved the pain and suffering of those unfortunately abused by the church because of the care and courage of all of you. Thanks to you all.
Another thing, the reason for my previous statement is that several very good programs regarding these abuses have already aired, but this story can’t really be told without a more lengthy series such as this. And it’s done so well…A leads to B leads to C etc. Superbly explained in a logical fashion. Mike, button the top button and cinch up the tie, sorry, just sayin’.
Absolutely love the show & am proud of the work and dedication of you and Leah. The Bridge and the AMA were outstanding.
I am not part of Scientology but a former Church of Christ member, my Aunt belongs to a more conservative CofC (there is no head, each church governs itself with most same fundemential beliefs) and after leaving the CofC her family discommunicated from me and other family members. It is interesting seeing the parallels there (it’s a rare practice & is considered cult like even within the church). Having you & Leah speak of this and how damaging it is helps the backlash of this practice and how it is viewed. My friends watch the show and now understand what it is. Thank you.
NBS: I also grew up in the cofc. It took a lot of time and distance to deal with the fallout. Best wishes.
Chee Chalker says
Best show yet Mike!
Don’t forget me when this blog has 1000s of commentors!!
LISA KILBURN says
I think it’s great what you and Leah are doing, keep up the great work. I am curious how Scientology keeps all their big name stars believing all their lies?
Kenneth Shuman says
I have been watching the show and feel so bad for the things the “church” has done to people but my question is why do people stick with a religion that is based on a galactic overlord named Xenu depositing disembodied souls on earth? Why do people stay once they hear that story?
Lorna Carleton says
Most Scientologists never hear about Xenu until they leave the church. Only those who get up to higher levels on the Bridge. I was in the church for more than 25 years and didn’t hear about Xenu once.
Because they believe that L Ron Hubbard is the messiah. Perfect and the only human being to ever have found the truth of life.
In a word: brainwashed.
Surrendering one’s power of reason and free thinking is a form of self hypnosis.
And….. all your friends and family are there.
Some leave, some stay…and they justify it by saying it is just a story. Keep in mind the majority of scientologists do not even reach this level and never hear about Xenu. Also, why do Christians stick with Christianity after hearing about the virgin birth, raising the dead or Noah’s ark? They learn about that stuff on day one and stick around!
It is not *what* scientologists believe…it the behavior.
Happier Now says
That Xenu story doesn’t come up until you get way in “up the bridge”. I never got close. It seemed pretty normal at first, and after a while you get used to things that are added gradually. I was only taking courses (read a book and answer questions on what you read) and did some auditing. Auditing makes you feel pretty good… until you start getting “regged” constantly for larger and larger “donations” to “secure your eternity”. That’s ultimately why I quit after dabbling with it for a couple years; I realized they were only after money,and weren’t even following their own policies. The more I learned about Scientology from listening to Hubbard’s lectures, the more I realized the staff at the orgs didn’t even study it themselves, they gave it lip service and quoted Hubbard all the time out of context to convince you of any point they wanted to make. When I said “no” on donating I got more and more pressure, people double & triple-teaming me after course, then popping up at my house. BIG turn off. I started to understand they were desperate to keep the money coming in to keep the lights on. But I wasn’t in one of the high profile LA orgs and I wasn’t in the “Sea Org” (despised the ones I met, little pseudo militants). Found out about the whole Xenu thing from the internet later.
Doug Parent says
It’s not exactly on the first page from day one. You sound like you are just finding out about all this. No, it takes decades of indoctrination.
You’ve got to work up to being a fully indoctrinated kool-aid drinker. Once you’re mainlining the toxic brew, it takes awhile to kick the habit.
Why do people stick with Catholism after hearing about the Virgin Birth? Or many other incredible stories from the religions they belong to? Because they either believe them or don’t consider it’s important to believe them and still belong to that religion.
You don’t even need to get to the immaculate conception and the virgin birth. For example, there’s a talking snake in Genesis, and the story of Noah’s Ark and the flood says that rainbows are a symbol of the covenant between God and Noah and the rest of the living creatures of the world (“Whenever the rainbow appears in the clouds, I will see it and remember the everlasting covenant between God and all living creatures of every kind on the earth.” .So God said to Noah, ‘This is the sign of the covenant I have established between me and all life on the earth.’.” -Genesis 9:16-17)
Abrahamic religions in general hit you with the absurd stuff pretty much from day 1. People just say that some things are metaphors, or that things should not be taken literally but that the intended lessons should be learned.
I went to a catholic high school (never having been a catholic in my life… it was a weird experience), and they’re not any more or less deluded than anyone who accepts the story of Xenu. It’s all faith, and like they’re allowed to say “this is just a story that illustrates an important point that our religion seeks to teach us,” so are you. And, like they’re allowed to say “this is part of my faith and I believe it to be true,” so are you!
Faith always requires accepting ridiculous, unprovable stuff. If it wasn’t impossible to prove it would just be a fact.
I’ve never been religious in my life, but I have no trouble understanding the idea of faith, and how things that may seem strange or unbelievable to some of us, are an important belief to others.
I easily can see how someone who is that far into the belief system, the culture, and the practices of Scientology would look past Xenu. It’s not that hard to imagine how so many stayed after hearing that.
Xenu is brought up for the first time at OTIII. That’s hundreds of thousands of dollars and lots of years in. It’s a confidential level. Members are not allowed to discuss it with others who have not done it and frankly I never discussed Xenu with anyone while in even after completing OTIII. There are probably many more people outside of scientology who are aware of Xenu than those in.
Quite true, Valerie. I would add that there is a lot of helpful and true actions and information in the lower levels leading up to OTIII, which lead one to expect more truth at the higher levels. Then it comes across as a bait and switch to some people, when they finally get there. But I have also met people who liked the level and felt they benefitted from it.
Catherine Bettencourt says
I happen to be browsing and ran into this site. http://alley.ethercat.com/cgi-bin/door/door.cgi?235
That is a great site that has lots of stories from exes.
Anons use it as a source for new entries for the biog list:
My Inner Space says
I used to really like Tom Cruise. Especially during the time when he was helping people in broken down cars and rescuing people. But the fact that he is at the top level of this organization where people are being abused and he is surrounded by all this free labour basically or servants and he thinks it’s ok for people to be treated like crap because he’s a celebrity. He’s either really nuts, or he’s not a good person or at this point he’s totally scared about what they’ve got on him. But look at what it’s cost him. And he still doesn’t see it. I think you are so brave Mike. And I’d like to say as a daughter who was estranged from her father for 30 years (not over religion) that your daughter may one day come back to her dad and want to be with her dad. I hope she does.
Chee Chalker says
I’d like Tom Cruise to explain how the thousands of people who are in accidents every year are helped because there are only so many scientologists to go around.
Tom said “…..you know you’re the only one who can really help…”
How many accidents has Tom Cruise actually helped? Does he drive all over the country going from accident to accident?
Once the planet is cleared and everyone is OT there won’t be any accidents. Maybe that’s how he helps. He disseminates to billions and everyone runs to their local Org, and BAM!
A world without insanity
Except there is still Tom Cruise….
Great job Mike. This series will be the coup de gras for the “church” in my opinion. Even my 75 year old, born again, evangelical, mother is watching it! This program is reaching far and wide and, I believe, signals the death knell for this insidious organization.
Hi Mike, I thought it was excellent. The stories were even more appalling then all the last. Again, I want to help and will do whatever it takes. I agree with leah that once you know something how can you not do something. I would like to see exposure on the elderly church members as well. Let’s start movements, petitions, marches, whatever it takes!! But be very careful and safe. They are not a joke as you know!
Just saw it. Hard hitting. Great to see Paulette Cooper’s saga told, even if it was in such a short time frame – I understand you had a lot to pack into more or less 45 minutes. This show is a major step in exposing the human rights violations of this so-called church in general and David Miscavige in particular. I feel the tide is turning.
The series is amazing and I admire the courage you have facing both the church and your personal loss of family. I was in Hollywood, at the Center on H’Wood Blvd. I can see how one is taken in. Watching the show made me realize after the initial contact, things get strange. I guess I don’t understand why they go so ferociously after those who leave. Is it all about protecting this reputation and losing money? Do the Sea Org people making prison income have to find external sources of payment? I don’t understand why anyone with no money, and an average citizen who no one really hears, is a target of such vile surveillance and harassment. The entire organization sounds crazy and how are they allowed to get away with neglect of children? Thank you for what you are doing. Keep fighting! Blessings to you.
Meredith Allen says
I have been watching the series and am so captivated! I moved to Palm Harbor 4 years ago and whenever I passed by the building in Clearwater I always would have a strange feeling. Windows blacked out, all the uniforms. Growing up with a Christian faith, I never knew about Scientology and watching this series just blows my mind! You are doing amazing work to inform the world! Kudos to you!
maria partsinevelos says
I bought a condo at Clearwater Beach, every-time I pass the buildings of Scientology I see the members of Scientology. They are never smiling, their heads down, they just walk from building to building. The way they are dressed in 90 degree weather is unbelievable to me. They look like zombies. They look miserable to me what are they doing to these poor souls?
I just watched it. Hugely powerful. Karen de la Carrière made me weep. It’s not the first time I’ve had an extremely strong reaction – crying, swearing, hollering “No!” and nearly running from room to room in my house – and I’m a never-in. The destruction of families is what affects me most.
My Congressman will be hearing from me tomorrow morning. He’s not just my representative; he’s a personal friend. I know for certain he’ll take me seriously.