One of the first “ideal orgs” was San Francisco.
Dear Leader yanked its ribbon way back in November 2003. That is nearly 16 years ago now…
They’re still at it — trying to get themselves to St Hill Size — calling themselves an “elite” team. As if this makes them so.
It was the same tune two years ago — though they were a little more overt:
Of course, they may STILL be the “next” org to make it to St Hill Size, because there hasn’t been one in the intervening 2 years…
But then, we remember this.
From 2006 — the SFO Org magazine “Gateway”:
And inside they proudly listed the names of “over 100 staff”…
It would be REALLY interesting to see how many staff they have today and how many of these people are still there.
And finally, just for good measure, that magazine included their completions. The ideal, St Hill Size San Francisco org did not list a SINGLE Clear made.
There have been a number of orgs declared “SH Size” since Hubbard proclaimed it could be accomplished in just a few weeks like it had been at St Hill in the 60’s and Boston in the early 70’s. None of them have continued to prosper despite being above the “make-break” point. As with everything in scientology, it’s hype without substance.
Andy S says
What’s this about “St Hill size” surely St Hill Manor is just an English country house not especially large in size. It only boasts 30 rooms and can only hold 300 people at a time.
Is this another lie perpetrated on the US members of CoS or is this all they can muster in the present climate.
I read recently there are only about 2-300 people in the UK who identify as Scientologists so I guess they could all fit into the manor comfortably.
Anyway it seems that they are renting it out to all and sundry for business meetings and concerts like any other country house hotel that wants to supplement the costs of owning a pile like that. This leads me to think there isn’t much Scientology going on in this place at all and they have been pretty much been cut loose of funding from Clearwater.
Keep up the good work.
Off Topic and many of you probably know about this story in Time Magazine. But for anyone who has never seen it, I found it to be one of the most informative and most entertaining looks at this scam.
I also found a wonderful and hilarious site that I’d never before seen that lampoons this scam and does an excellent job. I think you will really enjoy this one:
Look at the poor guy in the pic for the ‘Be apart of an Elite Team’ ad (apart?)…his face has bags on bags. I mean really…when was the last time this poor fellow had a good nights rest? So they’re begging, er I mean advertising, using this guy. If I was in and was being constantly harassed to join staff (I mean lets be real no one considers joining staff on their own anymore) and I saw this guys pic that’s all I would need to know….No Thanks!
That’s the Big Being, disagree-with-MEST, tone 40, I’m-kicking-ass-and-winning! pose in my super-cool cult uniform photo.
These folks fancy themselves as being universe-savers.
He’s actually a nice guy. I’ve met him.
I’m sure he’s a nice guy…as most scientologists and exes are. Most SO joined up with their hearts in the right place…hoping to help but then they end up getting those hearts turned into stone and doing the ‘tone 40’ pose like Mark calls it. But this poor guy looks like he needs about a week of good hard sleep. The SO anymore just look ragged and sleep deprived.
The staff in my (former) little org were, and surely still are, at heart, good, well intentioned, helpful people but the bottom line is they are members of a criminal organization, enablers of a major criminal and, as such, criminals themselves. Knowing or unknowing, that’s what they are. Give them their due; possibly with the best of intentions then, possibly with the best of intentions now – they’re criminals, as yet unapprehended, not to be trusted.
Mark that is funny AF and so true!
Hey all of you Still In Lurkers! I just saved you $300. Even better, now you don’t have to attend the next WISE Prosperity Seminar 🙂
Robert King says
I wonder how much longer they can keep up the scam…
Their stats are crashing.
Wonder what happens to the billion $$$ they have in liquid assets when the door finally closes ?
Robert, barring something unforeseen those billions will stay in the off shore accounts to be used by DM to buy some small island where the CoS HQ (his retirement home) will be built.
Stay tuned for the upcoming, revolutionary release of GAT 3. COB has finally found the WHY for inadequate expansion and low staff pay. Here it is. Wait for it. “THE KIND HAVE BEEN LEADING THE KIND.”
I left the Org in San Francisco
The hungry reg still calls for me
To do my Purif and TRs
By selling my new car
Thursday stats have chilled the air
My reg waits there in San Francisco
With that hot chick from RTC
Now that I’m far away, San Francisco,
The Org is ancient history!
Perfect parody, Scribe!
I love San Francisco and I love that song.
The best location to open an Ideal Org is North Korea.
George M White says
Lloyd Latch died in 2014 at age 84. His obituary talks about him being a chiropractor in San Francisco and the volunteer work he did for scientology. I wonder how many more of the people on this list are dead.
I lived out there during the 80’s and on staff 3-4 of those years. I recognize some of those names. About 5-6 of them that were staff at the mission. But…Lloyd Latch?? He ran those chiro clinics that sent a ton of people into San Fran Mission and Org back then. He was regarded as almost a celeb. I was at his house and it was at least a million dollar house back then…probably more. He joined staff?? I bet that was a “postulate” contract only. And those completions? One auditor at class 4. One internship of class 4 and I know him, very nice guy…he’s a Class 8!!! Another re-do going backwards on the bridge. Weird blast from the past.
Very postulate since he died 5 years ago. (See the link to his obit in my comment above.
Oh, I see the original is back. Cool. Thx. Have a good one.
Hey, I’ll try one more time, this time without the controversial part. Thx.
Hey there, fellow anti-cult activists. I’m a regular poster on JWsurvey who became aware of this site after Leah Remini’s piece on the Witch Tower. I assume some ex-Scatologists check out that site, and vice versa, so if you’ll indulge me, I need to be selfish and try to get out a message here. Could just be coincidence, but I recently said some very nasty things against the Witch Tower, on JWsurvey, that is, nastier than usual LOL, and now (for 2 days so far) I can’t access their site. I get a message like “FORBIDDEN access by the server”. Tried sneaking in other ways, same result. Like I said, could just be a coincidental glitch. Could be JWsurvey thought I was being too extreme (NEVER suggested violence or any terrorist-like shit, btw). Could be the Witch Tower has hacked me. But I believe it’s likely WT may have threatened JWsurvey with their now-famous “legal action”, so the folks at JWsurvey had to cut me off. That’s my best guess. I’m just here to let folks know that ol’ “gruntled” is alive and well, and that I shall certainly pursue OTHER avenues! And that WT is probably up to more of their dirty tricks. I hope you post this for me. Thanking you in advance, and thx for your patience.
Gruntled, I just tried, never having gone there, and am getting the same message. Maybe they got hacked. Lol
The WHY for the San Francisco Ideal Org not achieving St. Hill size: Too many gays in the bay area.
That will queer it alright…. 🙂
There are definitely more queers than clears there!
Joe Pendleton says
I thought that was the why for the Battle Creek org!
It’s the why across the boards for every Org on the planet. The psychs have done it again. Time for a fundraiser!
What an utter waste of a beautiful building.
Your read my mind, my dear Aqua….I was thinking the same thing….what a gorgeous building…
Lol I was thinking that too! I guess that proves that money can buy you a lot but it can’t buy you (the way to) happiness.
On the other hand, there’s nothing more boring than poverty.
Mike, can you ( or an ex-Scientologist ) explain in a few sentences how finances are used in an individual Org? To me, it seems they can only pay their expenses with what they themselves bring in? What if they can’t cover the utility bills, etc. Will Scientology’s upper echelon pay them? Etc ? Is there a Treasury Dept? Sorry for all the questions. With dwindling staff, I’m surprised individual orgs aren’t closing. Can orgs just lock their doors? Lol
Local orgs don’t make very much. A good portion gets sent to management and to pay for book supplies that they are ordered to buy (like money laundering). Whatever’s left gets divided into paying staff and paying utilities and bills. That’s why staff get paid almost nothing, no toilet paper, no heat, etc and often some public person has to be regged to donate to pay the utilities or insurance.
They are forbidden from closing. A Sea Org mission would be sent to take over.
So after COB buys a building, he can basically just walk away and never look back. The scientologists then struggle to make the org work. You think that staff would resent the COB and walk off the job. Instead, it seems, staff bust their asses off keeping the org running. It baffles one’s mind!
COB doesn’t buy the building. The public is regged mercilessly to raise money to buy the building, renovate it, and furnish it. When they finally do get their ‘Ideal’ org ready to open COB rushes in makes a speech and cuts the ribbon then leaves. Fun part is once the building is bought and paid for by the public, COB claims the building for Scientology and then starts charging them rent…on a building they bought.
It appears that for the small and failing orgs left that remain to get an “ideal” facility, Miscavige is probably using international management funds to finish the job once other fundraising is exhausted, so that he can keep up a pace of yanking several ribbons a year. I believe that even early on, the IAS was credited with subsidizing some of the “ideal” org buildings.
I’ve never seen solid confirmation of just what the ownership and rent arrangements for the new facilities are – if I recall, someone looking at records found at least one case of what seemed to look like local orgs that still owned the buildings. But I’m guessing that they wouldn’t be getting much in rent given the failing finances of most of the orgs, and likely are increasingly having to forgive that and other “uplines” payments due in order to keep the orgs open, which have long been used to suck all the money out of them anyway.
It’s indeed an exploitative mess, but it’s almost certainly not even working out as a lucrative venture for Miscavige. As comports with my knowledge of real estate investments and finances, and also according to John P. Capitalist’s analyses, the “ideal” org debacle is really burning through money and destroying wealth, with unnecessary projects that are wasteful and badly mis-managed. But Miscavige is keeping up his image with the faithful, and keeping the IRS off his back.
Gus Cox says
2006 – that’s 13 years ago lol.
To paraphrase Little Cap’n Davey, the only expansion going on is Tom Cruise’s, ahem, in Davey’s… ahem ahem.
George M White says
I do not think we will ever see the press exonerate Hubbard in the United States because Scientology is so corrupt. But here is a video on Madame Blavatsky made in Russia in 1991 after she was suppressed by the Communists. Crowley mocked Blavatsky calling her disorganized. Hubbard never gave her any credit even though he copied hundreds if not thousands of ideas.
Perhaps the ideal orgs should display this video:
Ammo Alamo says
Personnel Procurement Officer – known on the street as a Pimp, these people are professionals at deluding those they procure into no-win dead end employment at Scientology staff positions.
Flag Waving – A big flag of the United States might get you thinking it’s an organization proud to be American, but you’d be wrong. They downplay their history of felony convictions for serious crimes against the U.S government.
Were they counting the Anons who came to party in their ‘stats’ for going SH size?? I’ll bet they miss the caek…
Should Be Declared SP says
I live in San Fransisco and occasionally make appearances to keep my family in tact.
The Org there is completely dead.
There is no such thing as “Saint Hill” except in the mind of the brainwashed Scientologist.
How much can they take? They have been peddling that promise for 6 decades now.
Any idea of what their actual stats are? Also, who holds what posts – curious as to who is still there since my SFOD services in the 90’s.
George M White says
When I entered the 5th Avenue Scientology Mission in 1972, it was far from ideal. But Scientology was new and only the Village Voice pre-Ortega was publishing negative articles. If I had walked into an “ideal org”, I would have walked out in a heartbeat because I would have sensed the scam. So Miscavige you are all wrong.
Absolutely right George.
As crazy as Scientology was in the 70’s, it had a vibe. With all the emphasis on Miscavige’s MEST, there is nothing left.
As someone posted the other day, Scientology is run by a non-scientologist.
1970s-style orgs aren’t attractive to potential recruits in the 21st century – they probably all should have been updated modestly in the 1990s to seem more professional. But typically, Miscavige reacted way late, and then way overdid it.
Still, I also suspect that Miscavige concluded towards the end of the 1990s after the Lisa McPherson debacle and several others, that he needed to cut back and carefully control the risks of delivering services, which Hubbard based on old abreaction techniques that the “psychs” abandoned long ago because they have too high a rate of adverse outcomes (not to mention which, the sometimes impressive-seeming “insights” and “breakthroughs” turn out not to produce much in long-term results).
Yes George, Hubtard was better at covering up the scam than DM. But, that’s hardly something to crow about…
So apparently going Saint Hill size in scientology is a lot like going clear. You can do it then be told you are not Saint Hill size then work for it again over and over and over…..
Xenu's Son says
Thanks, Mike. Really enjoy the spotlight on individual orgs.
Old Surfer Dude says
Oh, the individual failing Idle Morgues?
Larry Siegel says
“There have been a number of orgs declared “SH Size” since Hubbard proclaimed it could be accomplished in just a few weeks like it had been at St Hill in the 60’s and Boston in the early 70’s. None of them have continued to prosper despite being above the “make-break” point. As with everything in scientology, it’s hype without substance.”
I joined staff at Boston Org in 1979 and stayed there for 7 years. Had I not read that Boston Org had achieved SH size earlier in the 70’s I never would have suspected it. I got paid an average of about 30 cents/hour and many times had to search hard to find toilet paper in the building as we couldn’t afford it.
Paul Cocovinis says
Actually finding tp in the building is a sure sign you are well on your way to St Hill size. We managed it in London several times in fact but on each occasion our hopes got dashed with the arrival of another bloody rates bill. Or final demand on the electricity. Or refund request.
SF org has tp. My wife had to “go” one time while we were in the city and the org graciously allowed her to use their facilities.
No attempt at regging either! (Which would certainly be an outpoint from the scientologist perspective).
Mary Kahn says
Yes, in the 80’s, when public were walking all around the Big Blue complex between ASHO and AO and hanging out on the steps by the hundreds for lunch or on breaks, there was frequently no toilet paper. Even when things were supposedly good, they weren’t good.
Old Surfer Dude says
When it’s hard to find toilet paper, I would suggest you just quit. Walk away. Don’t turn back. Keep your eyes forward.
Whenever there was a lack of toilet paper in the Org, I used to say to myself ‘no shit.’
I say let’s start a Go Fund Me for toilet paper in every org. FDR coined the expression, “A Chicken In Every Pot.” I say we donate and use the slogan, “A Roll In Every John”. And for Christmas, the Ideal M’orgs will ges a roll of Ideal COB toilet paper. What photo of Him should we use, I wonder. Standing behind the podium, or maybe hugging Tom Cruise…Your thoughts?
I got in the habit of bringing my own toilet paper. I’d put a 3/4 finished roll that I kept for bringing to the org, into my purse. Besides, when and if it was there at all, the org toilet paper was the kind you find in park bathrooms and gas stations , etc. – scratchy 🙂
I remember the days when ASHO didn’t have money to supply toilet paper in the org. So people started carrying it in their purses. Although it was an inconvenience for us and an embarrassment for the org, no one ever beeped on it and put two and two together to spot it as an outpoint. That’s is how brainwashed we all were.
Francis Khoury says
Be “apart” of the elite team?? 😉
That’s the first thing I saw. Ok I will happily be apart of the elite team by steadfastly not joining them. Freudian slip much?
Mary Kahn says
Most people try to keep “apart” from being “a part” of this church.
It’s just so “ignant” to be unable to spell.
But so many people just seem to love to revel in their “ignance”. I just don’t get it.
Does any of you folks get it?
I’m guessing they meant to say, “Be a part from the team.”
In other words, “Stay away from that team”. That is the only way it would make sense for me.
Old Surfer Dude says
Funny part is, there’s never been an “elite team”. Ever. Never has been.
It’s a typo – it should say effete.
Oops. That’s embarrassing… but par for the course.
The game they’re playing is far too serious for proofreading, dammit!
Grammatical errors are so common lately. Is hard to believe that Americans are writing these promo pieces. Possibly the people who write them are foreign with ESL.
Becoming “Saint Hill Size” has always been the epitome of Scientology stat pushing.
Mary Kahn says
Saying, “St Hill Size” and “Clearing the Planet” are just part of the gobbledygook that are used to try and corral members into the groupthink of the church.
It’s the church about nothing. Nothing but big fancy buildings. And I gotta say that that building in San Francisco is really amazing. I gotta hand it to miscavige, he has managed to acquire some big fancy buildings – SOULLESS and STERILE – but big fancy buildings.
Heh! IRS! You’ve been had! (As well as every other tax payer in this country.)
It seems to me that it’s become more sort of a ritual of faith, than an actual goal. “Going ideal” is similar, though it at least results in a new facility that remains, even after the associated promises of actual improvements in results are failed and forgotten.
But doesn’t it still undermine Scientology’s credibility to be continually making such “postulates” that are almost never achieved – and that even when it’s claimed that they are, turn out to not be the substantial attainment that was implied?
Old Surfer Dude says
Do they push it with there noses?
Ex Staff says
Did Steve Latch get Declared SP? His name is not on there. He was a nut case.
Lloyd Latch? Holy Xenu – he is OLDER than Xenu. On Staff? I highly doubt it.
The Negley family are guzzling the kool-aid. They abandoned their son. They need to wake up.
I think I will be contacting all of these people.
I live in San Fran and would love to help them “go clear” for free. They need the truth. They need to stop assisting a suppressive organization that lies, deceives and commits crimes daily.
I lived in the SF area and actually established and ran a mission. I can say categorically that I do not recognize a single name in that list. There must have been a lot of short timers.
It seems to be another Potemkin Village dog-and-pony-show like “ideal” org staff-ups, where they get people from all over to sign staff contracts that are more “postulate” than reality. Though it seems that now they don’t even expect everyone to manage to make it to the initial photo shoot.
That’s both amazing and funny, Peacemaker!
Here you go, sign this staff contract so we can officially list you as staff, and that will help us get others to sign up, you see. And this helps us stat push our staff numbers up to the requisite 200 Saint Hill Size so that COB can call us Saint Hill Size at the event. Having said that, though, if, truthfully, you really CAN’T relocate and BE on staff here, well, OK, we’ll deal with that later, but right now, just sign this thing, there you go 🙂
Old Surfer Dude says
Tons of them.
Joe Pendleton says
Ex Staff, Lloyd Latch died a few years ago as did a few others on that list. Dennis Negley is so sick , he can hardly walk and is on dialysis four days a week in Beaverton, Oregon, where his daughter Devin lives (obviously no longer on staff at SFO). Maybe 20 of those people are still there . But I think Steve Latch is still there.
Dennis was one of the old OSA ex-staff volunteers, like Lance Whalin and Diane Woods.
He was a nice guy until he got mixed up with the GO (Quiros, Stodola, O’Gorman etc).
Ann Davis says
I would absolutely love to hear the results from contacting these peeps! I hope you do. ☺
Steve Latch was/is the Senior C/S – crazier than a soup sandwich (and really weird).
Most of those names on the Saint Hill staff list were hired just for the week or were on ‘Project Prepares’. False stats as usual. Mostly are really old timers and 2nd generation.
Last I heard, they had two students in the Academy.
San Franny Fag says
Two students in San Fran Academy? Straight up and vertical for that MORGUE!
They are expanding after all.
I was on staff for many years. It has always been empty and dead.
Joe Pendleton says
Not back in the 70s , it wasn’t … Then it was absolutely PACKED with students and pc’s … At one point in 1977, there were 24 people on the Dianetic Internship at ONE TIME … But alas, LRH himself fucked that scene … He really should have attended an Arte Maren seminar …
Yep I remember. Lots of gullible boomers getting fleeced by Hubtard. Until 99.9% of them grew up. That was the end of Scamology really. Having no exchangeable product the end was always assured.
I left in 1982. I provide historical footnotes. I’m becoming a dinosaur. Not everyone was gullible. The mysterious OT levels were hidden and unknown and you could still be free thinker. Us baby boomers get a bad rap.