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The Face of the Freewinds: “A Wog”

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For many years in the early 2000’s, the “face” of the Freewinds was Carol Miles, the “Executive Officer”/”Public Officer.”

She was the face and voice (with a wonderfully genteel english accent) of Freewinds promotional videos. She narrated tours of the ship and appeared at the end of each Freewinds video  with a pitch for people to come and partake in the Freewinds experience.

There has been some earlier commentary on the internet that mentioned Carol. She disappeared from public view around 2007 (like me), and as with Heber, Ray Mithoff, Guillaume Lesevre and so many others, nobody dared to ask where she was and eventually she was forgotten.  Mention of her has been erased. Videos she appeared in have been destroyed. She, like the others, became a “non-entity.”

In fact, she was being “handled” under the brilliant guidance of CO CMO Ship (Sue Price) with her special style of “executive C/Sing”.  Carol’s “handlings” didn’t go well.   She made threats and became a security risk.  And what happens when someone becomes too much of a PR threat?  They get shipped off to an outer area and ultimately to the scientology prison colony that is the RPF in CLO ANZO, in Sydney Australia.

Quite a number of “problem” staff have been routed to the ANZO RPF.  It is thought to be so remote that anyone sent there has effectively been “disappeared”.  This includes the 3 Gold staff who were banished to the ANZO RPF after they pissed off Dear Leader.  Those 3 (Karl Whitcher, Kip Engen and Nicolai Ciferrelli) were assigned to do the RPF twice through.  They ended up being on the RPF for years and years. They may still be there for all I know. So too Chris Guider who refused an order from Miscavige to physically assault someone when he was the “IG MAA.” (Chris long since left the Sea Org with his wife Valeska Paris Guider who was also sent to the ANZO RPF). Another was Rikke Jenssen/Galbiatti/(now something else) who was one of the RTC Reps who oversaw the “handling” of Lisa McPherson.

But I was reminded of all of this when I came across this message from the then CO CMO Ship, Sue Price. Valeska Guider had given this to me many years ago and I had forgotten it even existed.

Sue Price calls the “face of the Freewinds” a wog. The most derogatory term she can think of apparently.

And she admits that in 10 years aboard the Freewinds as an “executive” she got “no auditing and training.”

She apparently became suicidal (“1D destructive thoughts” is a scientology euphemism for threatening suicide”) and Sue Price’s handling is to tell her to “knock off the drama” and that this is caused by “O/W’s”. Period.

Such compassion and care. But this is such a typically Sea Org attitude and view.

Of course, her concern is the bad PR, so information about her must be kept under wraps.

 

ADDITION:

A very rare photo of Carol provided by one of our readers:

 

 

 

Comments

  1. A bit of backstory on Carol Miles. In the 1990s I was in Marketing and we were tasked with scripting and producing a promotional video for the Freewinds. We wrote the script and then got to the stage of casting – who would be the spokesperson for the Freewinds? The most obvious choice was the Commanding Officer. For the life of me I can’t remember his name now – a somewhat overweight, shlubby guy – ex GO as I remember. He was filmed doing the script and was truly awful. So we cast a wider net. Someone suggested Carol. At the time she was a singer at the onboard cabaret. She was filmed doing the script and was great. Good presence, very confident, and very attractive. She was approved. But we had to give her some sort of title as we couldn’t just put “Carol Miles, Freewinds Cabaret Singer.” So we brainstormed a bit and came up with “Executive Officer.” It was meaningless, she was not in charge of anything, but it sounded good. And so it went – She was put in an officer’s uniform, the video was filmed and approved, and Carol became the face of the Freewinds.

    Reply

    • Thanks for the background Jeff.

      How typical. Everything is smoke and mirrors.

      The guy you are thinking of was Milt Wolfe. And yes, both he and his wife Laura were ex-GO.

      Reply

          • That’s true, but they can put much older documents on the Web that were created before the WWW ever existed. Ever heard of scanning? So, one can have a “Google footprint” that includes such documents.

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            • Duh. Bill, that doesn’t make it a 40 year old footprint on Google . Just because one puts a .jpg with a passage from Jesus on a web page doesn’t make it a 2,000 year old web presence. LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

              Reply

            • Pedrito, what you wrote and what you meant are two ENTIRELY different things. I will give you an example.

              A newspaper named the Daily Rag has been in operation for 10 years. You submit a story about Columbus sailing to America. You cannot state that Columbus has a 570 year footprint in the Daily Rag.

              Understand?

              Reply

            • Haha! Pedrito, I understood what you meant immediately but this is what happens here – people like Wynski (literally) misconstrue what one states and there follows a to-ing and fro-ing over the misconstruing. All good fun, well, sort of!

              Reply

        • I didn’t know that Google compiles records about people. Do they do this with everyone or just people who appear in the news? It seems creepy to me. References are made to what the guy was doing from all over the place.

          Reply

          • I’m aware that anyone be “researched” on the internet. For curiosity I googled “Mike Rinder Scientology” and MANY references came up, the good, the bad and the ugly. Apparently Google decides on its own to compile information on people and make it readily available. The giant tech companies want you to spend as much time as possible on their site which increases advertising revenue so I guess that’s one of their “features”.

            Reply

  2. Having trouble reading the memo due to obscure acronyms. What is EU, ABOSH EU and wog? What is the dirty laundry of Freewinds that needs to be hidden?

    Reply

  3. Seeing that image confirmed it for me and throws me back quite a way. This is indeed the Carol I recall all those years ago popping up in the video ‘ads’ for the ship and all of us in London org feeling so proud to have one of our own ‘making it’. She was/is indeed one of the warmest and friendliest people you could meet and it just seemed (at the time) so fitting that she was now the face of the most wonderful, friendly and caring place on the planet.
    To now learn how awful it became for her and how disgracefully she was subsequently treated is quite upsetting.
    My guess is she was exposed to too much that was diametrically opposed to her own decency and values and she finally put her foot down.
    I really do hope she made it out and has reclaimed her life again.
    It would be worth a little celebration.

    Reply

  4. Maybe saying his name 3X does the trick, so FOOLproof, Where did you disappear to?

    Reply

  5. Another person who vanished off the face of the earth is Andrew Barton who was for a brief time, the MAA (Ethics Officer) at OSA INT

    Reply

  6. Wow. That letter has so many layers of information exposing how corrupt the cult truly is. She’s suicidal so they claim it’s her ows and mainly worry about their PR. It shows their Complete lack of compassion! There’s no concern over her well being. And she had no training or auditing in ten years as an exec! They will never last. They chew off their own hind leg constantly. 😑

    Reply

    • This is why i say that sea org members, former and current, should put together a class action lawsuit against scientology for failure to uphold their end of the bargain they made upon becoming sea org members. Specifically, they were promised free courses and auditing, etc., to get them up the bridge. Instead they were cheated out of it. Any sea org member could have progressed further up the bridge had they gotten a minimum wage job and just paid for that crap.

      Now, i know that no current sea org member would sue, and the contracts are probably written in such a manner that scientology gets everything and sea org members don’t get anything – but the additional bad publicity would be nice to hear, as would a non-scientologist lawyer’s opinion on their contracts.

      Reply

        • Lol, no kiddin’ eh? Well, the ones who would, wouldn’t sue; and those out, wouldn’t, which leaves…freezoners? Dunno how many free zoners are former sea org though. Like they said about why nobody noticed the rapture: “It was, like, one guy.”

          Reply

  9. So typical. I hope Carol was able to make it fully out. There is no doubt that Scientology would have done everything possible to prevent that from happening. Even if she did make it out, OSA will never let her out of their sight and will work to keep her silenced. I hope someone can give us an update.

    Reply

  10. Any armchair detectives on this site ..please go for it !
    These days with the Internet anyone can be found !
    I am going to be working this my end as well.
    Wouldn’t it be great if we tracked her down and found her?
    How can someone in this day and age vanish into thin air ?

    Reply

    • It would be great if she had living relatives who could be contacted to file a missing persons report on her and once she was located, they could take her in and she could have a place to go live and destimulate and heal.

      Reply

  11. One of the very rare photos of Carol Miles, I found on the Internet a while ago:

    http://i.pgu.me/+sLmpA+Z_original.jpg

    She was a lovely, friendly person (that was her character) and she didn’t need to fake it as others do/did in the promo and PR, foremost DM-enforcer-pet Sharron Weber and David Miscavige themselves – in their schizophrenic way. Carole was genuine!

    She didn’t fit the cold-chrome-steel image which was propagated and executed by David Miscavige & his enforcers behind their PR-facade and a fake smile.

    It pains me to know that they messed with her and her mind. I wish so much that Carol is able to escape the Orwellian clutches and can free herself and maybe even speak out one day.

    She didn’t need to fake it like

    http://i.pgu.me/+sLmpA+Z_original.jpg

    Reply

    • AFAICT, the only boat that could be big and grand enough for Davey would be a Super-Panamax: 1200 feet long, with 10,000 staterooms, each with adjoining private hyperbaric chambers to stave off the bends after going down too long AND a dive boat which can float into its “garage” at the stern of the ship to ensure it’s always available.

      Reply

  13. There’s an interesting implied accusation of “criminal neglect,” presumably by higher-ups, in that letter, Not criminal in the real-world sense, of course, but within the Scientology bubble.

    We’ve also seen similar covert critiques in some of the “recovery” letters which concede that things have been done wrong in the past. Somewhat typically, scientologists seem to have a lot of “Freudian slip” showing; there seems to be quite a bit of repressed criticism and even dissatisfaction seeping out through the cracks and between the lines.

    And I’m surprised that any country besides the US would put up with a pseudo-religious group running a virtual prison camp, but I guess that Oz has a bit of similar wild West attitude going on.

    Reply

  14. This one’s for you Sue:

    I’ve grown accustomed to his hate
    He always makes the pain begin
    I’ve grown accustomed to the tune
    He hammers night and noon
    His rage, his frowns
    My ups, my downs
    Are second nature to me now
    Like breathing out and breathing in
    I was serenely independent and content before we met
    Surely I could someday be that way again
    And yet
    I’ve grown accustomed to his look
    Accustomed to his voice
    Accustomed to his hate

    Proudly tendered as a gift to Dave

    Reply

  16. Good stuff, Mike. Good underbelly true stuff.

    The concept of “dramatizing” is like an institutionalized gaslighting:

    “you know that thing that is bothering you? Whatever you happen to be currently traumatized by? (death, pain, injury, loss severe injustice, etc.)…?….well, you’re not REALLY upset about that. All this bad feeling and emotion is coming from bad things you have done recently or sometime in your trillion year existence… or bad shit that happened to you before.”

    What you’re upset about is not what you’re upset about, and any display of negative emotion IS OUT ETHICS.

    Pull up your pants, stop acting out your emotion, handle it with Scientology. Write your o/ws and take responsibility for your own condition.

    “dramatizing” goes back to the first books and writings of Hubbard, it’s all over and through scn.

    As I continue to step back and look…I identify it as an important behavior control mechanism. Those who were in know full well what that word does when it’s being hurled in accusation by seniors. You can’t fight back, and you use it to self-police not only your actions, but your own evaluation of your own motives and natural human reactions.

    “Dramatize” is used to dismiss the validity of any emotional response to anything bad that happens.

    You’re always responsible for your own condition.

    I can leave Scientology,…. but I can only work and hope to someday be free of its terribly twisted network of evilly wrong thought control ingrained within me.

    I reject it, and wrestle with self damnation for feeling and aching.

    Reply

    • Beautifully stated,Rip.
      It’s the self-policing bit that’s the kiss of death, because that’s when the adherent commits emotional abuse/ gaslighting against himself/ herself.
      I remember signing a minimum of 3 “affidavits” over a period of a decade about my pre-scientology suicide attempts while I was in the cult. The purveyors of the ” modern science of mental health ” and of the ” only valid technology of spiritual freedom ” can’t be bothered with such ” dramatizations ” or the possibility of their recurrence. They also, contrary to their loud proclamations, offer NO ” solutions ” or effective treatments for psychological traumas and mental illnesses.

      Reply

      • “my pre-scientology suicide attempts” It takes courage to admit that, Mark. I made one attempt in the distant past, which had to do with IV drug abuse. I’m glad your attempts failed – or we’d be deprived here of your thoughtful and articulate insights. Wishing you all the best.

        Reply

        • Thanks, Bix. Once I escaped from that fog of delusion and cult fuckery and began to regain my wits and a semblance of self-esteem, I decided that any public posts I made on any blog about scientology would show my face and real name…and my real thoughts and emotions.
          Thank you to Mike for providing a forum like this.

          Reply

          • You both (Bix and Mark) survived suicide attempts and then Scientology. That’s something to pause on…wow. I am glad to know you’re both here, and apparently stronger for it. Life is a fragile thing, and it’s good to be able to look back on the truly shitty stuff with more understanding and self esteem.

            Reply

    • Right on, Rip. Dramatization is again one of those mechanism that got elevated to an absolute truth. Whereas it can be occasionally true. LRH was reckless in the game of having tremendous flashes of insights on particulars and rocketing them into universal rules. As prolific as his writings. That is what ego, narcissism, and lack of conscientiousness for the purpose of expediency will lead to: A group of individuals operating with absolute faith in intermittently applicable principles. The partial truths he came up with or learned from others were the reasons I started and stayed. I’ll never forget that, as there are and will be many more such individuals. The far from absolute applicability is the reason I left, as it led to debacles in the lives of too many people.

      Reply

    • In my experience, staff were definitely not allowed to dramatize, because they had a job to do and there was no time or energy to help them. Public could dramatize, because they were paying to be helped.

      I often thought that, although we had the tech of resolving mental trauma, staff were expected to rise above it. That’s what made them superior to the public.

      Reply

      • “no case on post”

        “staff don’t have a case”

        “there’s no excuse for any failure that ever occurred any place in history, except this: there was just not quite enough carry through and push through”

        …there are many more such quotes.

        ………

        I’m so effing glad this is in my review mirror.

        Reply

  17. I remember donating for the Freewinds in the 1980’s. There were so many people at Flag looking with anticipation at the future. Little did I know at the time that it would turn out to be such a waste. I remember married couples joining the Sea Org together. It was such a strong movement. Every time I went to Flag, which was most weekends, flying in from Canada I met new people. The trick was to give you a briefing and then to ask for money. I do not think I could have lasted in Scientology if it was not for the new people swarming into Flag. You had to wait in line to eat lunch. They had crowds of people all over the Fort Harrison. The real “face of the Freewinds” was in the early days based on hope. It all faded out when Hubbard’s religion was finally unmasked as a fraud. So now the Freewinds is nothing more than an old ship. The ship will one day hit the scrap pile and the insanity called Scientology will be finally closed.

    Reply

    • Hi George, In the late 80’s there would be 50 to 100 public in the Fort Harrison HGC waiting area at any given time. They would be calling friends, reading, talking, playing games, etc. There was a lot of excitement. A few short years later you could only find 1 to 5 public in the HGC waiting area at Flag. The public that were left were hiding from all the different reg units desperately trying to get their money. It was a COMPLETELY different scene.

      Reply

      • Apparently the organization wide “regging” ( demands for money) worked. Why have just one person, the registrar, demanding money if you can get the whole crew pitching in? The CofS real estate portfolio seems to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars.

        Reply

        • I guess somewhere along the line DM made it an obligation for most staff members to produce income and they went along with it. The greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics.

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          • Yep, even the waitresses at the Sandcastle eating place were pressed into regging service. What’s next? The maids will be trained to empty out the pockets of your jeans when cleaning your rooms at the Scn hotels?

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          • Richard, didn’t you by the nature of your work as an auditor, happen to be in the position in a mission or org that probably produced the most income?

            Long before DM came along, Hubbard was telling his followers to “MAKE MONEY. MAKE MORE MONEY. MAKE OTHER PEOPLE PRODUCE SO AS TO MAKE MORE MONEY.” [his original caps] DM seems to have learned at the feet of the master, and to have kept things going as the market for 60s-style woo continued to collapse by following Hubbard’s example and just getting more ruthless and rapacious as necessary to keep Scientology going, squeezing more money out of fewer people with price increases and the introduction of new things to charge for.

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            • Sometime between 1975 and 1980 I worked for about a year at the Salt Lake City mission and about six months at the Las Vegas org. I wouldn’t describe either one as bustling but I guess they made enough money to get by since I was never pressured to recruit people and as far as I know outright donations didn’t exist back then.

              Someone at the Vegas org who knew Hubbard told me he avoided Vegas because it was “still too hot with radiation” from the 1950s testing.

              Reply

              • The residual radiation probably wouldn’t bother the average Joe but maybe it stirred up Hubbard’s body thetans.

  18. Does anyone know if Carol Miles made it out i.e. out of Scientology?

    Reading about the ANZO RPF has made me wonder if Miscavige has maybe moved the notorious ‘hole’ to another country…out of the prying eyes of the US media and law. It makes me wonder what execs like Leserve, Mithoff, and Heber J think about ‘Dear Leader’ now after literally decades in a prison. They were right there beside him as some of DM’s self described ‘Young Turks’ when he took over the whole show…and like Stalin before him he got rid of all of those who helped bring him to power. It looks like some of them would wake up (Heber though is too old and ill now I believe, based on reports, to do much) and realize Miscavige has gone insane.

    Reply

  19. This letter crystallizes the total disregard the cult and OSA has for individuals. Someone is clearly suicidal, upset and banished, and all they are concerned about is bad publicity? The letter also vividly and decisively shows that ““wog” is definitely a derogatory term within the cult. Don’t see how foolproof can dispute this, but I’m sure he will try his hardest. If it wasn’t meant derogatorily, they would not use it in this context. This cult is so reprehensible in so many ways it still boggles my mind.

    Reply

    • Kat, I admire your confrontation of the LA police and the results so far. Thank you for that.

      Regarding Foolproof, I think he only responds in two situations: mostly 1. when he thinks he spots a weakness he can attack; but also sometimes 2. when his own ego is threatened. So far that idea has held up under testing.

      Reply

        • (Foolproof). I’m trying to think of something I can say that’s relevant. Unfortunately I can’t. Plus people will laugh at me.

          Reply

        • He’s probably in his Lub O’Tard themed bedroom trying to decide if he should buy O’Tard Essence of Kool Shaving Lotion or replace his now worn out O’Tard Plastic Raincoat with Pre-Cut Pocket Holes.

          I wouldn’t worry too much, he probably won’t be able to resist inflicting his now tiresome “wit” and “wisdom” upon us. Which all too soon will turn into petty name calling and nastiness when anyone dares to contradict him.

          Reply

          • Well, Mike usually doesn’t allow me to respond to your (childish) posts probably to make out that you have “won” the debate – he doesn’t want to upset you, you see, what with all the posts you make here.

            And here am I being accused of name-calling and nastiness and we see the kindergarten stuff above! “Lub OTard”? The irony eh?

            p.s. I do have a picture of LRH on my wall – one of the nice ones, not the one that Mike uses all the time. But I don’t smoke menthol cigarettes however!

            Reply

            • FP —

              You’re such a hypocrite. You’ve made up the dumbest names for a handful of people here, including me. Yet you have the nerve to say someone else doing the same thing is nasty and childish.

              Try to come up with a justification…. I’ll wait.

              Of course you have a pic of Hubbard… LOL!! Now that’s funny 😂

              Reply

            • What’s Tubby going to do, leave off doing all his “research” out there in the universe, reanimate the bones that are left his of corpse and come to where I live and to tell me off for calling him a mean name?

              “But I don’t smoke menthol cigarettes however!” Look at the words “O’Tard Essence of Kool Shaving Lotion” and then reread what you wrote, if you have problems use your O’Tard dictionary and look up the various words and make note of the differences.

              What’s the bet you won’t thank me for trying to help you but go off on a little rant?

              Reply

              • This is what happens when you only understand literally. Anyone who can read well knows you have just made a fool of yourself.

              • FP always uses the “taking things literally” argument when he has no other way of defending his bullshit. It’s so tired.

              • Foolproof says
                August 15, 2019 at 7:21 am

                “This is what happens when you only understand literally. Anyone who can read well knows you have just made a fool of yourself.”

                Wow, you really had to dig very deep to come up with yet another version of your “blistering” old yawn inspiring FP crap (1.5/10 on the Insultometer) when you have nothing but insults left to bolster your arguments. Keep trying.

            • “Well, Mike usually doesn’t allow me to respond to your (childish) posts probably to make out that you have “won” the debate – he doesn’t want to upset you, you see, what with all the posts you make here.”

              What a load of utter teenage snarky bullshit! If that’s the best attempt at a comeback you can devise then you have my sympathy. Keep trying, you will get there one day.

              By the way, is your poster the one where he’s facing front with glow in the dark eyes or the one where he’s turned away with his body bent slightly forward with his head turned to look coquettishly at the viewer, also with glow in the dark eyes Kool scented smoke puffing out of his arse?

              Reply

              • By the way FP, feel free to jump in and point out that I missed the “and” between “… eyes Kool…” in the last sentence I typed above. I’ve contacted Rupert Murdoch and the main TV networks and they’ve agreed that your astounding powers of observation will be lead news all over the country.

        • Foolproof is an Indie Scientologist who only cares about defending LRH’s auditing and training tech, and sometimes, LRH himself. He won’t defend Miscavige’s abuses or Ideal Org Fundraising or IAS fundraising. I have never met him and don’t know him or anything about him. I’m just paraphrasing what he has stated about himself on this blog.

          Reply

          • You speak sooth Aqua – unlike many of the other hostile and suffering flops on here! But then you’ve probably had Grade 2 have you not? i.e. “Relief from the hostilities and sufferings of life”. One can see the difference immediately, well, I can anyway.

            Reply

        • What do you want me to say about this? You dudes still haven’t cognited that I am nothing to do with the current Church. Nor would I condone mistreatment of staff. We all know that certain Executives have mistreated certain staff and probably are still doing so.

          I did however notice Mike’s clever juxtaposition of the word “wog” in this story to arouse passions and some further misconstruing and nevertheless I still wasn’t going to comment until you “summoned” me from the depths of Wynski’s reactive mind. And not even when Ms. B. Craven, sorry Haven, keeps on mentioning “some fools” in nearly every post she makes. (I do notice Chief Lab Rat – haha!)

          One thing I will say Mike on this, is that it is all very well to publish the poor girl’s story, but if she is still in the Church this doesn’t bode well for her future life either in the SO or in Scientology. Because you have done this story on her now she may or may not be regarded as a “marked card” or possible “security risk”, so perhaps you might like to ponder what the end result of your stories may lead to before letting rip? Just saying.

          Reply

          • This is a strange admission coming from you – you worry that by exposing the abuses someone suffered they may be subjected to more abuse in scientology? So you admit the culture of Scientology is to punish those who have been abused because exposing those abuses brings bad PR to Scientology?

            Or are you just trying to get me not to expose the abuses because it reflects badly on Hubbard’s creation?

            Reply

            • Yes. I will admit it is a double-edged sword. But this is what I am trying to impart to you. It would be silly for me to state that certain Execs have not ever abused staff, you know that from your own history on both flows. But no, it is not the culture of “Scientology” but only some certain Execs who misapply Scientology policy.

              I would probably think (if she is still in the Church) that she is aghast at your story, or even if she is not in the Church anymore, doesn’t want it “online” for all to see. It is that that I am talking about: I think if people come out of the Church and are happy to have their history published, then that is fine (when truthful) and they are agreeable to such, but when someone sees their “history”, which may be embellished or exaggerated, or even far worse than what is actually published, then it is a different kettle of fish. It is along the lines of Data Protection and what can or should be published about people without their permission. Something like that. I think you see what I mean and I am not meaning to have an argument here about what has happened to the woman.

              Reply

              • FP, if it’s not the “culture” of Scientology then why does it trace back to when Hubbard was captaining the original ships of the Sea Org, with the infamous chain locker, and abusive practices like “overboarding” people who couldn’t swim? There are also multiple reports, including from the “Pope” of Scientology and “world’s first clear” John McMaster, that people were not allowed to leave just as we read about in this newer account, and for instance that those who did manage to flee to embassies while in port, were tracked down and brought back on the false pretenses that they were just escaping punishment for crimes like theft.

                And then of course there are Hubbard’s various policies and writings, including the infamous exemplary accounts of ruthless behavior in “Responsibilities of Leaders.” It seems like the current trend is for even apologists to face the reality of what has now become undeniably obvious, and admit that Hubbard was, for example, a “tyrant,” in an attempt to salvage the “subject” from his failings.

            • BTW Mike, I have wanted to post this for quite a while but I read your cobber Marc Headley’s book “Blown for Good” and it was the best book on the (shenanigans of the) subject I have ever read! It was written without any (great amount) of HE&R or vitriol or untruths and in a straightforward manner and contained lots of interesting information, mostly about INT Base of course. I recommended it to an auditor friend of mine and he found the same as well.

              Now before you all swoon and gasp with disbelief that I have stated something positive in your directions – one can compare George White’s silly little book about “New OTVIII” with Marc’s very good book and state that the difference is like night and day. But when an author states something without any untruths as Marc has done (AFAIK – but it seems so) and compare it with George’s absolute nonsense then Marc deserves plaudits for NOT following the usual line of unnecessary embellishment with such books. I will send a commendation to Marc’s Ethics File (but Dave will remove it – we know!)

              Reply

              • What the hell is wrong with human emotion and reaction?? Honestly, be serious now. People have ups and downs in life. It’s absolutely NORMAL for them to have emotions and reactions. Stifling emotions is not a good thing for anyone.

                But Hubbard wanted people to just shut up about it and continue on acting as if his “tech” helped their emotional state. If it actually helped, so many people who have left the cult wouldn’t be so fucked up.

        • George – the reason that I have seemingly disappeared is that I ran New OTVIII, you know, the April Fool’s version one that you er “did”, and spontaneously combusted! Can you believe it? (Oh! Of course, silly question – you did believe it!) But I managed to put out the fire by wearing my Lucifer costume – fighting fire with fire eh?

          Reply

      • I’ve noticed that as well- usually the word “wog” is one of his buttons, but I guess he’s hiding. I’m not really surprised.

        Reply

        • Actually of course it is your button, even when it was painstakingly explained to you. Shame that it was never used as racist slur in Scientology, despite your insistence that it must have been and your chagrin when Mike admitted it never was. Spoilt your little game on that one eh?

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      • Cat, I think that FP also responds when his cherished beliefs are threatened. Going on the attack here allows him to distract himself from the fact that even the indie Scientology scene is failing and shrinking as he watches, and that the only real explanation for that is that the “tech” doesn’t really work like it’s supposed to – his faith-bolstering anecodotes aside.

        That’s a variation of common cult thought stopping and indoctrination techniques, and is one of the reasons that members are often sent out to proselytize the public – better to have them arguing with non-believers, than starting to argue with themselves about the obvious contradictions, inconsistencies and failures.

        Reply

        • So that’s who she is! The “Face of the Freewinds” – yes, she was, for years and years, this blonde young woman with the lovely British accent presiding over the Freewinds events. And then she disappeared and Napier and Sharon Whatshername took over. Since being out, from time to time I’ve wondered occasionally, “Where is that girl? What happened to her?” Carol Miles. Gosh, I hope she’s out. That would be great. And if she’s out, it would be distinctly wonderful if she’s not being kept quiet with a NDA.. OK, .I can dream.

          Reply

          • FP —

            I can’t help but laugh out loud when you talk about having “wonderful sessions”.

            Yeah, I’m sure sessions with a crude lie detector are oh so much fun!

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            • Oh! Hahaha! Giggle-giggle, chortle chortle. And another “hahaha!” But this is me laughing at you – you haven’t got a clue what you are talking about.

              Go and see Marty and Mike’s interview with Jon Sweeney on youtube probably, and you’ll see who is worried about the use of a “crude lie detector”. No, better not, you might get even more worried than you are. And you really shouldn’t believe everything you read from people who are worried that their lies might be detected by your or rather their so-called “crude lie detector”.

              Reply

              • Why would I be worried? Come on now. Please, spare me.

                I wouldn’t listen to Marty if my life depended on it. He’s a lying, turncoat, moronic asshole. He admitted to $cientology’s crimes, then took it all back.

                He’s about as reliable as an e-meter.

              • Yes, yes, Marty this Marty that… but your darling Mike was there as well! So go and have a look at the interview. You know nothing of Scientology like many of the social media misfits who have had no dealings at all with the subject or even with the Church, commenting on here with “expert” opinions as they are given some sort of “voice” and just repeating all the same old drivel that they have read. Next week it will be “the e-meter works on sweat”! So for you to comment what you think about the e-meter is like a school boy being asked to explain the theory of relativity. Stick to your usual regurgitated stuff and don’t get “technical” and I am sure you will feel happier.

              • As you cite me as the expert here (thanks) I will readily admit that what I, or Marty or you “knows” about the emeter is what claimed it to be. That’s the difference between the theory of relativity and the theory of the emeter. The truth about the emeter is not provable science.

                I readily acknowledge I don’t understand it and what it does. I know a lot of people have anecdotal evidence that it works. But I don’t think there is any actual proof — perhaps it is the result of convincing people it works and therefore it does for some. Though not for others. Laying on of hands also works for some….

              • “So for you to comment what you think about the e-meter is like a school boy being asked to explain the theory of relativity.”

                In that case motormouth you explain in detail how the bull excrement meter works. We all look forward with bated breath to your reply.

              • Again, there’s no reply button on your last post to me…

                It’s so typical of angry $cientologists to say that people who were never in “don’t know anything”.

                I don’t need to research a pile of shit to know it’s a pile of shit.

                Try harder.

        • The only thing that is failing and shrinking is the blather that I read on here. You haven’t got a clue as to what is going in the field and probably not much of a clue as to what is going on in Orgs either, but you just keep repeating that all is shrinking and hoping on hope that the subject disappears (it never will now) before someone gets you on the meter cans and finds out what is prompting you to spend hours and hours commenting.

          Reply

          • You profess to know that scientology (field or orgs or any way you define it) is NOT shrinking?

            Why do you believe this to b3 true?

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            • Yes, I thought this might elicit a response from you as it seems to be one of the mainstays of the agenda here. Personally I know scores of auditors who are beavering away in the field and when I went in to my old Org a while ago there were quite a few people (20 staff and public or so just in reception) there even late afternoon on a business day in the city where I was. All I see and hear on here that it is “shrinking”, which it may well be, but the Orgs are still there and when I see some of the pictures you post they seem to be pretty well-stocked with people attending some sort of ceremony.

              Reply

              • Of course the stupid orgs are there.

                If you dare, visit your nearest five orgs and take pics of all the people who *aren’t* there. I’m sure anyone inside would be happy to show that there are people there … even if it’s only five of ‘em.

                Everyone knows that the orgs are ghost towns.

              • The antisocial personality has the following attributes:

                1. He or she speaks only in very broad generalities. “They say . . .” “Everybody thinks . . .” “Everyone knows . . .” and such expressions are in continual use, particularly when imparting rumor. When asked, “Who is everybody . . .” it normally turns out to be one source and from this
                source the antisocial person has manufactured what he or she pretends is the whole opinion of the whole society. This is natural to them since to them all society is a large hostile generality, against the antisocial in particular.

                2. Such a person deals mainly in bad news, critical or hostile remarks…

                “Everyone knows” that Katherine eh?

              • Foolproof blathered: “The antisocial personality has the following attributes:

                1. He or she speaks only in very broad generalities. “They say . . .” “Everybody thinks . . .” “Everyone knows . . .” and such expressions are in continual use, particularly when imparting rumor.”

                Yes, just like Hubtard stated that ALL homosexuals were dangerous to society deviants.

                LMAO at robotic followers of sociopaths.

              • Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence Fool. Evidence or you are still nothing but a lying criminal.

                There aren’t not even a score of Indie auditors in the ENTIRE USA that produce a full week of auditing every week. Much LESS those you know personally.

              • Replying here since your last post to me didn’t have a reply button…

                Of course you go off on some tangent about the “anti-social personality” and generalities because you can’t argue with the truth, so you deflect instead.

                The orgs are near empty. Like I said, visit 5 if you dare.

                If Hubbard’s “tech” is so great, why aren’t there millions of members?? I’ve asked this question many times but you never answer. Wonder why.

          • Foolproof, your failure to provide the extraordinary evidence for your insane claims once again shows that sociopaths are also liars.

            Reply

            • I’ve asked him a ton of times about the empty orgs.

              If Hubbard’s “tech” is oh so great, why aren’t there millions of members? Why aren’t people beating down the doors?

              He NEVER answers. Shocker.

              Reply

      • Oooh! This shows some “research” eh? Analysing my posts eh? I hope you used the Data Series. Probably not eh? Didn’t realise that I was so important! But then I suppose as I am not part of the Mutually Out-Ruds club posting here so therefore an anomaly, then somewhat understandable then.

        Reply

    • As explained maybe several times, “wog” is indeed mildly derogatory, but not racist. You are one (in the Scientology sense) – haha! Aw! Poor diddums Kat, did someone use a “wery” (sic) nasty word? Don’t “cwy”! Don’t faint or gasp!

      I suppose this will still be a theme in months and years to come – the mis-duplication that is. One could just as easily say (and it would be correct) – “non-Scientologist”. Terrible invalidation eh?

      And the irony here is almost unbelievable – much of Kat’s statements and many of the comments and stories here are strongly derogatory, yet the mildly derogatory word “wog” as used in Scientology is being touted as the most heinous crime in history. Yep, the irony!

      Reply

      • Umm.. first of all, the stupid word “wog” is not touted as the most heinous crime in history. You’re a piece of work.

        Secondly, if people could just as easily say “non-$cientologist”, then why didn’t Hubbard?? Why did he feel the need to put people down who weren’t involved in $cientology?

        Don’t bother with a reply. We all know the answer.

        Reply

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