CCHR peddles some pretty outrageous claims about psychiatry
But their “Psych Search” guy, Ken Kramer, is a source of wacky that even CCHR must cringe about.
Here’s some random stuff that showed up all on one day, starting with his clever play on “MAGA” and “Trump” :
Then he has another brainstorm…
Trying to manipulate Google? Hahahaha. This is the flea climbing the leg of the elephant shouting “get ready, here I come.”
I guess one could do exactly the same thing with respect to scientology… But I think Google searches on scientology pretty much come up with negative stuff other than their paid ads. So, why bother?
Wait, I thought brains were NOT the mind? Isn’t that what scientology says?
In fact, his next one proves that point:
And by the way Ken, there is a TON of proof about chemicals in the brain.
This sort of thinking has become about as outdated as “The world is round? Prove it.” And every proof that is provided is rejected as “fake.”
Hubbard was all or nothing. If the Psychiatrists and Psychologists saw him as a quack then Hubbard created the ultimate generality to punish them. There was no compromise. He stated, all psychs are evil and must be destroyed. Antisocial Personality’s speak in generalities. Hubbard was great at that. I know when I disconnected from him I started getting more healthy and made less mistakes. Hmmm, was he perhaps a Suppressive Person?
Psychiatry was not responsible for the holocaust.
They were guilty of horrific crimes against humanity in the Nazi Era.
Psychiatry advocated and engaged in the extermination of mental patients, homosexuals and other minority groups. Documentation is easily found. Here is one reference, chosen because it a has no connection to Scientology.
Just because Scientology says someone is guilty it does not mean they are innocent.
Medical Dr’s used to “bleed people out” and use all kinds of questionable and dangerous treatments by today’s standards. Does that mean that we should give up on western medicine completely?
Psychology (which is different from psychiatry) and Psychiatry actually require students of either/both subjects to study the history and… you are correct, it isn’t pretty. And they OWN it, have moved forward based on proven research, the DSM and constant areas of study and require everyone entering the field (via higher education) to study the history, how/why those things occurred and how to avoid doing anything similar. But all of that is available to find out if one looks into from a neutral perspective.
Many Scientologists have done horrible things… so does that mean they’re all “worthless”? The same can be said even for some former Scientologists… so for that matter, Humans in general are quite the cluster f~$k, so we should just give up on us all, live for today and screw everyone else?
My point is that correlation is NOT causation and that you will find mistakes, even horrible ones, behind almost every major medical and/or technological advance in our history. Some eliminate jobs and have wiped out entire workforces, others have created new careers entirely. The biggest issue (& it seemingly occurs often within co$) is that we’re all individuals. With our respective brilliance and brokenness. We are each capable of both terrible and good and there are people who will rationalize either side.
A black/white point of view inevitably leads to hypocrisy because we live in a world with shades of gray and every other color of the rainbow.
This is way too long, but this divisive way of thinking is behind SO much dysfunction in our community and others and today was one of those days where it hit me in such a way that the pending frustration got vomited out.
I’m not insinuating you are totally anti-psychiatry (hope that’s not the case, anyway) or view all things as black/white, but that this isn’t about making people “wrong or right” but pointing out hypocrisy, abuses and hoping to create awareness, then change and opportunities to heal for those who feel they need heeling afterwards. “STAAD” also claims that anti-semitism is totally wrong. They are 100% correct there, yet they say nothing about their NOI buddies spreading just that. THAT is the point. If they never had a decent point or position on something, there’d be no risk to anyone out there. The issue is that they position themselves as caring, but if there’s enough money in anything, they’ll look past it.
Jere Lull says
Cavalier, In Hubbard’s twisted, paranoid “reasoning”, the psychs were responsible SOMEhow for every bad act on the planet. They even were the reason scientology never worked as advertised, never mind that Ron was really after more slaves and even MORE MONEY than he could fritter away (again).
Heinrich Himmler 卐 called for the extermination of homosexuals by “root and branch”. I’m sure the Psychs did some, but most were quietly shot and disappeared by order of the Reichsführer ᛋᛋ.
On a side-note: Kirstie the HAS BEEN speaks (spews?) –
Am I allowed to call Ken Kramer a “fuckwit” of the first order? Or would a “fornicatewit” sound better?
I’d totally support you in that. Even if it’s not great, but geez that woman can project anything at anyone… BUT herself or her “church.”
Neither is fully correct.
“Psychs” is a generalization. They did have their hands in it in certain quarters, but these were localized and minor.
After the Nazis entered the Ukraine, the Ukrainians were emboldened/empowered and executed their Bolshevik overlords by the hundreds of thousands, if not millions. Had nothing to do with Nazis or Psychs, but the Soviet Union tried to add that as part of the 6 million that supposedly had been holocausted.
The Scientology crime syndicate is the home of misinformation, black PR, Psych OPs and thuggish brown-shirt behavior.
According to John Logothetis of STAND, “Scientologists as a group cannot avoid [criticism] due to just how much good they do in society.”
By his “logic” (and that of his church, who approved his article) psychiatrists also can’t avoid criticism due to how much good they do in society.
“[Critics] aren’t Scientologists…[or] they are largely former Scientologists who committed crimes against the Church…”
So Ken was never a psychiatrist (thus ignorant/ill-educated) or, if he was, he must have committed crimes against the APA. Either way, we should ignore him.
“I would like to know how you can criticize something you know nothing about. It’s like a movie critic criticizing a movie he hasn’t even seen!”
So scientologists who have never officially studied/practiced psychiatry should stfu. Is that right, John?
Excellent points!!! Didn’t occur to me to apply their same logic (inevitable criticism = doing so much good) in reverse. Lol thanks for that!
There is no conclusive evidence that mental illnesses are caused by neurochemical activity. There’s plenty of data suggesting correlation, just not causation.
The above comment is the only one that makes any sense on this whole website.
Mike, you write “there is a TON of proof about chemicals in the brain”. No sh*t! There are chemicals in the brain! What a revelation. Let’s make sure to tell some scientists. They might have missed that fact. There is H20, H4E2 and CRAP2MUCH.
No drug exists today which is capable of curing, permanently, mostly any mental disorder. If anyone has made a drug yet with those capabilities, I am not aware of it.
Mike Rinder says
So, you think CCHR is right?
Have you ever met anyone suffering from a real mental illness? Have you asked them about whatever drugs they may be taking? Of course that is anecdotal evidence, but it is an interesting exercise.
WHat is your view of the role of dopamine?
I really don’t care about what CCHR is saying, not saying or saying between the lines.
However, I do know that history can be vague or not precise at all. I also know that it is in some people’s interest to bend and twist history to their own advantage and goals.
WWII is a fact. To know, with precision, what lead up to, and caused it all is probably at best difficult, if not impossible. That psychiatry was the cause of it all? Nah… Don’t think so. It sounds improbable. Hitler did an “excellent” job of killing millions, and bleeding the surrounding countries dry for wealth and life. But I have never actually sat down and started to do any reading about it, and probably never will, as it doesn’t interest me much.
I have personally worked in a psychiatric housing facility for a period of time. It was an “open” facility, but despite it being open the people there could not just come and go as they pleased. It was for non-violent people only. It got too much over time, and to keep my own mental sanity reasonably intact, I simply had to get out of that place. So I quit.
But, during that time, and this was about 6 months, no one left that facility in a cured state. In fact, no one was expected to actually leave the place. Once these people where assigned to the facility, that was just about it. To put this in crude terms, this was a storage place for the mentally ill, where they where out of sight and off the hands of their families.
During those 6 months, no one left that facility in a cured state. And when I say cured, I mean compared to a “normal” functional person, able to hold down a job and take care of one self, and compared to their state when they where first assigned to the facility.
And yes, I had my hands on the drugs too. I distributed them, and made sure the right amount got into the right hands. It was easy to see the results of the drugs. People “zoned out”, became distant and no longer was very much in contact with their surroundings. It seemed to “disconnect” the person into a state of “numbness” or a likeness to that.
So, this is according to my own experience and conclusions.
Dopamine? Established scientific fact as far is I’m concerned. Not to what it exactly does, but that it actually exists and have a function in the brain. I know of no experiments that shows conclusively the exact functions of it. If it where exactly known, it would be easy to administer 100mg of it, combine it with two other components, and watch a person brighten right up and get back to “normal”, and I have never seen that happen.
Mike Rinder says
Thanks for your comprehensive response. I appreciate it. I certainly agree that these people were not cured.
Psychiatrist & Psychologist often times need their OWN psychiatrist or psychologist counselor since they have to listen day in and day out to the problems of others.
They sit day in and day out getting an earful of life’s drama from others, & then have to figure out a plan and in most cases what type “meds” might help that person cope.
I’ve seen & heard this for decades as in “Dr B is on temporary leave” then you learn through the grapevine that the particular Dr was “dealing with his own issues”…..
My eldest brother has been a schizophrenic since youth…..he’s constantly on the bandwagon of self denial & backwards logic. He takes his meds, gets “straight” & since in his OWN MIND considers himself “not sick anymore” since the daily PRESCRIBED MEDS help control his Psycho aspects….he thinks he’s “cured” as in “ONLY sick people need to take medications & I am NOT SICK ANYMORE”….so refused to take them….then it’s right back to the downslide of a major psychotic breakdown & hospitalization over & over again.
He’s held down one full time job that lasted three months & he could not handle even that……he’d “goof off” & had to be tracked down as to why he wasn’t doing his work. After that while under professional medical supervision……more or less worked part time with others like himself….in a “sheltered workshop” but then can’t handle even that. The “Government” has supported him financially & medically his adult life.
He’s had to be taken care of or “baby sat” his entire adult life because HE is his own WORST ENEMY.
Yes help is out there…it IS NEEDED FOR MANY….but if a religion DENIES THAT IT IS AUTHENTIC FOR SOMEONE WHO NEEDS IT……& that person then does not seek the help they need….THAT’S A CRIME IN ITSELF.
I have no problem saying that some of what CCHR publishes is correct, yes. And referenced, should one wish to find and evaluate the original paper without any of their extremist spin.
There are far more credible, balanced and up to date resources available, thankfully.
The chemical imbalance theory forms the basis of the “biological model” of mental illness. Those who reject this model claim that mental health is arguably a multifactorial issue that shouldn’t be reduced to mere brain chemistry alone.
That doesn’t mean neurochemicals aren’t a factor or that drugs have no therapeutic value.
But there are legitimate criticisms of this model…and of the pharmaceutical industry and its influence on institutional psychiatry in spearheading it. Tom Insel, former director of the NIMH, has spoken out on this issue. As has Allen Frances, who was responsible for the DSM IV. This isn’t some fringe conspiracy; it’s a philosophical civil war that has been raging within psychiatry for decades.
So in the absence of evidence, one should maintain reason and a healthy scepticism.
Mike Rinder says
With you 100%
Todd Cray says
So Ken is a man of science, a man demanding proof. And psychiatry is devoid of proof?
So let’s take a look at dianutics, the text that, according to Kenny, has once and for all superseded and obsolesced psychiatry. Dianutics claims in big bold letters on its cover to offer a “science.” So according to Kenny, that should entail a series of proofs then, no?
However, as soon as you open the book, before you even get to the “scientific” text of it, you will find a lengthy disclaimer stating that the book is in fact “religious” in nature, and that it is NOT promising any results of any sort. In fact the disclaimer gets outright bizarre when it states that “the book is not a statement of claims made by the author.” In other words, Elron stated claims that he didn’t state!
Quite the obvious bait-and-switch fraud–“science” sold on the cover and, once money has changed hands, “religion” and a denial of all its claims right inside, before the actual text even gets rolling! And as expected after all these disclaimers, there’s much whack to be found in this book. But proofs? Not a one! Guaranteed!
Jere Lull says
Right, Todd. Dianetics and scientology were false from the get-go and haven’t gotten more truthful since.
Yep, scientologists accusing others of their own sins, once again.
projection, thy name is scientology….
Todd Cray says
For his own sake, Ken would be well advised to take another look at his predictive statements which were based on his own previous input. He ought to consider how much more fun he could have by checking even more boxes. All he needs to do is examine his own ideas and see how many of these fit under “hateful against groups” and “disparaging for [sic] individuals.” Fun times, Kenny!
O/T. Scientology Freedom Medal Winner Nation of Islam Minister Tony Muhammad says:
“Don’t Take Their Vaccine!”
“The Tuskegee experiment is about to happen AGAIN!!!”
Jere Lull says
That NOI loser can’t stand reality or take responsibility, so resorts to clickbait headlines to get its “stats” up.
Zee Moo says
The CCHR is pretty much unknown in the Psych world. Few, if any, see their antics at the yearly Psych conference and they are unknown in the meetings that happen with state and local mental health associations. I used to work for the New York State mental health system. Only a very few had ever heard about the CCHR and they only knew about it because Szasz was a former employee that caused a lot of trouble for the agency.
Perhaps it’s been shared before because it does sound familiar… but not recalling Szasz having worked for the public facing agency or what caused him to do a complete 180.
O/T. “Highly Commended” Scientology Field Staff Member Nation of Islam Sister Renata Muhammad says:
“Don’t Take Their Vaccine!”
We identify The Holocaust as the evil act it actually was. But we’re looking at The Holocaust objectively. From the subjective viewpoint the perpetrators of The Holocaust believed they were the good people doing good things and that their victims were evil. The Swastika was originally a good luck sign, now it’s a symbol of evil.
Bruce Ploetz says
Clive Staples Lewis was the author of the Narnia series, a science fiction trilogy, the Screwtape Letters, good friend of J. R. R. Tolkien and renowned Christian apologist. Also experienced the Blitz during World War II.
You have to ask yourself the question – can mankind be perfected?
Of course individuals or groups of people can improve in all kinds of ways. The question is about mankind as a whole – is there some magic trick or chant or ideology or vaccine that could not just improve it, but prefect it? Remove all insanity, poverty, war? Reconcile every conflict? Resolve every issue?
The true fascists that embrace tyranny in every generation all follow that lofty and disastrous goal. Perfection. Scientology is just a weak example compared to others. By fervently pursuing perfection they leave humanity behind. Love, family, friendship, honesty, decency become casualties to the “higher good”. Since the goal is stupid, unattainable, contrary to natural law, they always become frustrated in their attempts to attain it.
Somehow there are always some who don’t fall in with the grand design, dissenters, unbelievers. You can’t perfect all of humanity unless the whole of humanity is on board. So such super-idealists tend to genocide. It is not really a matter of ideology, religion, anti-religion, left- or right-wing etc. It is just a natural consequence of the primary error, noble cause corruption, the pursuit of perfection in something that is inherently imperfect.
Frustration leads to desperation and desperation to ever more radicalized behavior. Rats will mostly avoid humans, but when cornered they will fight back. Nothing is more dangerous than the one that feels there is no solution but to attack.
My answer is no, mankind cannot be perfected. You can personally help your neighbor, you can make the world a better place. You can’t just press reset and reboot into a utopian new tomorrow. That only works for your PC.
Some say that the Almighty will do it someday. We are not the Almighty, and can’t become all-powerful, so that grand apocalyptic project is not up to us. We can only do what we can and strive to do the good that is humanly possible.
Bob Dylan, “The Ballad of Frankie Lee and Judas Priest”:
This was very well-said and pretty close to my own philosophy on things. I am actually a practicing Christian and my faith is important to me, central to my life, but it’s also important to me that people have the space and freedom to choose what things look like for them and I don’t feel I have things more figured out or am “holier than thou.” It’s sad to me how many people can and will use any excuse/“reason” to feel as though they are “above” other people.
Joe Pendleton says
Great analogy about the flea and the elephant.
Scientologists are under the delusion that anyone in the world is paying ANY attention to ANYTHING they say about psychiatry.
Not unlike their hallucination about “clearing the planet” (which if they were at all sane about, they wouldn’t have been offloading auditors for the past fifteen years and charging increasing amounts to train new ones).
But … Ya gotta have an enemy to rally the troops against, even if it’s imaginary … Fighting the devil costs MONEY, man!
Jere Lull says
Yup, they gotta have an ENEMY — even if the guys you target don’t know you exist and would welcome you with open arms IF your claptrap *worked*. They’d LOVE it if you could reduce their workload in truth.
Hell, WE are “enemies” even when our only intentions are to help poor deluded clams to wake up and smell the BS they’ve been buried in.(as I enjoy another fresh-brewed coffee.)
Yes, they have to have an enemy. God Almighty, I am just so thoroughly fed up with morons of one kind or another who “have to have an enemy”.
Doug Sprinkke says
When I was at the LA org years ago I recall seeing a car in the parking lot with a bumper sticker that read “Psychiatrists do it with rats”. Even being a true Kool-Aid drinker at the time I didn’t find it all that amusing.
George M. White says
Hubbard tried anything to hide his ultimate fascism. This realization of his fascism was actually, in my opinion, beyond OT VIII. On OT VIII Hubbard was outlining that Christians were responsible for the demise of earth. This is really Hitler in his early stages blaming the jews. In the ultimate battle that Hubbard outlines, he becomes the anti-Christ. This elimination of Christians is violent and very similar to the Holocaust. The idea that the psychs caused the Holocaust is merely a diversion. The psychs are the scapegoat to take the pressure off the OT XV’s who eliminate Christians. They obviously can use Xenu tactics because it is the greatest good. Hubbard followed King Solomon who was actually friends with Asmodeus the God of Hell. Solomon used Asmodeus to find his lost magical ring. Hubbard would not hesitate to use Xenu to destroy Christians. After the ultimate battle when Fascism prevails in the entire Universe, Xenu is used in the mop up operations that kill all Christians and Christianity forever.
And this garbage is what’s on OTVIII? Or VII? Glad it worked out that over a 20 year period I was either too broke or too busy to go OT. Man!
George M. White says
Yes, Hubbard had a sick mind that he hid.