To answer a question that many had — who is that unidentified man in this photo with Nora?
Doubt: The Church of Scientology vs the Independents
This isn’t my entire Doubt write-up. This is just my announcement to both sides, having done the other steps and arrived at a decision.
Most of my friends know I’m a Scientologist. I’m an old-time Scientologist. There’s people who say Scientology doesn’t work, but they just haven’t thought it through. It’s a religion. If someone says it works for them, then you pretty much have to admit it works: it works for them. Apparently, that’s the nature of religions: different ones work for different people. Maybe Scientology doesn’t work for you, or you weren’t able to make it work, or you haven’t seen it work, but if you say it flat out doesn’t work, when I’m telling you I’ve seen it work, then you’re calling me a liar or a fool. So, that’s settled: I’m a Scientologist. That was never in doubt.
Still, I don’t claim to be a very good Scientologist, that is, I’m not very good at it. I’ve made mistakes, made a mess here and there and hurt some people. But when I realize I’ve made a mess I always stop, turn around, go back, and clean it up as best I can. If I hurt someone, I don’t try to say it’s somehow their own fault. If I hurt someone I always try to make good, and therein, in my opinion, is the measure of a man. A woman. A human being.
I’m an old-time Scientologist, and I hereby quit the Church of Scientology.
Dave Soroka
August 7th, 2013.
It all boils down to this, “What happened to my religion.”
While we have all the old Vancouverites here, does anyone know what became of Richard Thompson?
I don’t know much. We’re fb friends, and he posts a lot of anti-gov’t and conspiracy stuff. As far as I know, he’s still in OK standing with the church. “On the fringes”, maybe…
I checked your friends list and didn’t see him. Perhaps he has privacy settings that prevent him from showing up. If you are in touch with him, let him know I was asking after him and give him my email addy if you would. He will be out, sooner or later, as will anyone with a shred of sanity left.
OK! In the meantime, friend me!
OK, I sent you a friends request.
Dave, you are looking for something I can help you which I cannot post here: theroadout@hushmail.com
Yes. theroadout@hushmail.com
Hey Davey,
Glad to read this. You guys got the makings of a nice little group up there, what with Dougie and all. I’m down in TO but if I can help in any way, let me know. I know you’re hooked in with Les, but as I said, any help for an old friend, my pleasure. You be well, we’ll be seeing each other up the road. 🙂
ARC,
Chris Black
“standardtechauditor@yahoo.ca”
Hello Dave. I remember you from ASHO at that time and liked you. As far as that bosun’s party that Robin mentioned, I don’t remember it. But then, what good is a bosun’s party if you can remember it?
Danny Dialwide! I liked you, too! Actually, I do remember that party, or at least one or two salient images from it…I recall heaving some pretty gal in full uniform (I recall a LOT of braid) over my shoulder, her literally kicking and screaming, and me walking calmly over to the bar and getting a beer, which I drank while she continued to curse and kick. She finally threw me off balance and we both went down on the floor in a puddle of beer. Huh. Some execs got no sense of humour…
Dave,
So glad to hear your doubt announcement. Well done on maintaining your personal integrity and pulling yourself out of the insanity.
Cheers,
Carla
Thanks, Carla. What a ride, huh?
Dave I am surprised that you have been in for so long considering your families history in Scientology. Yes there are some things that worked well in Scn. but I think that they were just the bait to suck someone in further and part them with their money, time, life, attention and energy and put them into a hole. I believe that Scn. is part hypnosis and part brainwashing. Hubbard once said that the able cannot be hypnotized, meaning that Scientologists cannot be hypnotized, well what if he was covertly doing this all along and the Scientologists were believing that they cannot be hypnotized but being hypnotized all along and not knowing it. Hubbard did have a history in black magic and hypnosis and come to think of it hypnosis was popular during his time.
Oh for christ sake. I’m actually laughing. You really think you’re going to get me to quit my religion? Give it up, go away. I thought this site was for independent Scientologists. What the hell are you doing here? Are you a freaking plant?
no plant just an old acquaintance
No I am not trying to get you to quit your religion. Believe and be active in what you want. I am only expressing my opinion on the subject. I will now go away if this upsets you.
Ike? Is this Ike? Anyway, whichever Larry you are, all I’m saying is you surprised me by expressing this stuff on this site. I thought these folks here were all Scientologists. Independent ones. This anti-Scientology stuff caught me off-guard. I’m not in the market for a debate on the workability of Scn. It works. That’s my reality and that’s why I announced on this site in particular, just trying to get my Doubt formula out of the way so I can get on with non-E. Ike, if this is you, I’m not hypnotized. I’m broadsided by the idea you think I am. Anyway, man, I hope you get it figured out one way or another, and let’s grab a beer sometime and talk about the freakin’ Canucks or the ’92 Dodge Cumins Diesel, or just about any freakin’ thing but whether Scientology works. Luv ya, man.
Larry, you say “I believe that Scn. is part brainwashing and part hypnosis…” But you don’t KNOW. It’s as simple as that. You are spewing stuff because you have some….circumstantial evidence. If you’ve never actually run an engram properly, or learned what a proper acknowledgement can do for a person or learned how to give one, or experienced any one of hundreds more beneficial results of properly-applied Scientology, then I can see how you would feel comfortable saying something like this. Go troll around somewhere else.
Yes I know about engram runnning and acknowledgements I have done much of both and more. I still believe that Scientology is part hypnosis and brainwashing, though. These are my beliefs. I have also experienced remarkable gains for myself and others.
Succinct and powerful statement Dave. I agree 100%. Welcome and best wishes!
Dave, your statement of the measure of a man or woman is very beautifully stated. Thank you for that.
Dave, you and Nora make a good pair. You both have a personable and down to earth way of expressing yourselves that I find immensely refreshing. Thanks for coming home, old timer, and I hope to read more from you and your lovely lady.
Of course, Ronnie. We’re “Canajuns”. Whatcha expect? lol
Chris
Thanks, Ronnie. You and the rest of these folks are making me feel at home. Thank you all.
Well said Dave. I loved your story and feel the same way. Thank you!
Hi Dave,
How’s it goin’ eh?
Up there in Canada eh?
🙂
Glad to see you and Nora hooked up.
I think you make an awesome twosome.
Remember that Bosun’s Party we went to back in the mid 80’s when you were the Intern Supe at ASHO?
‘Cause sure the hell don’t 😉
(This is back in the days folks, before the Church of Scientology turned into a branch of the WCTU)
Anyway I gave Mike my secure email that you and Nora can use to get in touch with me if ya wish.
Love ya both.
Robin Adair
Well, Robin, long time since I’ve heard of you. Email me at bluekookaburra@gmail.com and we’ll catch up.
Cheers,
Carla Graham (nee Bohn)
Hey Carla, you still “down under?” 😉
Chris Black
standardtechauditor@yahoo.ca
Hi Chris,
Yep. I’m very settled here. Happily married with a house with a big yard, cat, dogs, chickens, vegie garden in a small town a comfortable distance from Sydney. Life is good.
And you?
Carla
Right back at you Robin. Great to find you!
Adair! Man, what have you been up to? Where are you now?
“I’m an old-time Scientologist, and I hereby quit the Church of Scientology.
Dave Soroka”
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rokQbwL6TUg
Hey Dave!!!!
You know how “they” say, “ohhhhh poor ___ has gone to the dark side.”
Welcome home to the “white side.”
ARC
Les
Thanks, Les. And the wins I had in session the other week: still nice and stable. Nora’s looking forward to seeing you and Anita. I’ve got Annette and our granddaughter coming over in a few minutes to do some TRs, and I’m going to train Annette as a sup while brushing up my own sup tech, and then we’re going to open a training center. We’ll be in touch about getting materials from you, or wherever it is we can get them…
bottom line, Dave, you’re a GOOD man!
Thanks!
Well Done Dave,
I came to the very same result.
David Miscavige put the tech in a Blender for his own personal smoothie
and that’s not what I signed up for.
Congratulations.
“If someone says it works for them, then you pretty much have to admit it works: it works for them.”
First of all, it’s wonderful to have you out. =] But, it’s tough for me to read these types of statements, though, and not (hopefully) kindly respond. Have you thought about the placibo? The sugar pill has no working mechanism intrinsic to itself, but when presented in the right context can work miracles from the recipient’s pov. Just some food for thought.
Best,
Wisher
Do you believe a person’s improvement through CBT is due to placebo?
Do you have proven reasons as to why that’s not possible (if that’s indeed what you’re suggesting)?
Sorry, what’s CBT?
I had assumed CBT was referencing cognitive behavioral therapy (IMO, a similar practice with comparable goals to Scientology), although I could be wrong on the assumption.
The stuff I’ve seen Scientology do, no placibo could ever do. I’m not just talking about people getting well, which is routine. I’m talking about real, actual physical universe stuff, not just subjective. I’m talking about the kind of stuff Ron used to talk about. A being taking control of MEST. You can believe what you want, and that, as I said, is the beauty of religion, but I’ve seen stuff I just can’t argue with. At one time in my life, in some kind of incredibly keyed-out state that I’ve discussed with my auditor, I was doing shit with MEST, subjective and objective, that, when I told one Buddhist friend of mine about it, she referred to my story as “bragging”, and we both had a laugh. Anyway, I’m not here to try to convince you-all of anything. I only wanted to say I’ve quit the Church. Whatever it is they’ve been doing in the Church of Scientology for the last 30 years or so, it ain’t Scientology. I’ve seen Scientology, and there’s no comparison.
Thanks for the intriguing reply. When you say “taking control of MEST”, I can only take that to mean that you made the ashtray actually stand up, so to say. When you say “keyed out”, I can only assume you were possibly in some form of altered state of mind. Putting the two together leaves room for many possibilities where the MEST didn’t in actuality do what you thought you saw it do. Either way, you sound like a guy I’d like to go have a beer with, and now that you’re out–who knows–it could now actually happen one of these days. 😀
Best,
Wisher
Like I said, Wisher, I’m not here to convince you of anything. I know what I’ve seen, and I’ll walk my own road. Beer? Oh, yeah!!!
Hey Dave, nice job there! Short & to the point, and clear intent delivered! Try banking that, Midget!
Hi Dave, I got the announcement, thanks.
Forrest
Is this Forrest Cole?
Nicely worded, Mr Soroka! There is a song in those lyrics. Your common sense viewpoint filters through those words very well..
I was joking the other day with a dear friend and thought the name “IAS and the Holy Rollers” would make a great name for a parody band. So many titles for so many songs. I never commented on Nora’s announcement but pass on another ‘well done’! That corner of the province is certainly getting some sanity back into it!!
One day soon.
Hello Focus. Are we old friends? Email me.
Yeah, Focus, a band of thieves singing praises to their Thieve Leader!!!
That was nice Dave.
The cult of cob loses again.
Another one leaves the cult.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rY0WxgSXdEE
Sung to the tune of….
http://youtu.be/rY0WxgSXdEE
Congratulations, Dave. I appreciate your announcement. Love the bottom line “clean it up as best I can”.
Here’s to the old-timers.
Dave, thanks for clarifying your position! I too make no apologies for Being a Scientologist.
I find that with a brief explanation to differentiate between being a Scientologist and practicing Scientology to help others, but no longer being a Church of Scientology Member and why – most people understand and are also quite interested in Scientology.
Its very sad to see so many ex church members who either didn’t have real wins with The Tech or their losses were such to swamp the wins they did have. Of course these are the products of today’s Church of Scientology under the leadership of ,one, David Miscavige
Hi Steve. Your name is familiar. Have we known each other along the way?
Hi Dave, Maybe, I knew a Renete (spelling?) Soroka (again, spelling?). I spent most of my time as a former church member in PAC and was a regular Flag Public. Any bells?
I don’t know Renete. Different Soroka clan, I guess. I was staff at ASHO for a brief stint in ’84-’85. I sup’d the Interneship, and later went to the Portland Crusade. After that, I crusaded down at Freedom City, and after a while the folks at ASHO gave up trying to get me to hold any kind of a post, and they FB’d me out, citing my LSD history. Lucky me. I came back to Canada in ’87.