This is a special edition of Listener Questions. Leah and I recorded this when I was in LA recently. As usual, we cover a lot of ground from why any OT would wear glasses and a question about Tom Cruise’s bravery to High Crimes and the traits of an SP and even an answer that shocked Leah about something Hubbard claimed about himself.
This is a clip of the start of the episode:
You can listen to the full episode here:
We promised to include certain documents. They are below.
High Crimes: This is the list of scientology “High Crimes” (or Suppressive Acts) contained in the Introduction to Scientology Ethics book.
The Anti- Social Personality (SP) traits chapter also from Introduction to Scientology Ethics:
One viewer question astutely sked how is it that an OT would wear glasses. There was a Dianetic Auditor Bulletin (No. 7 in January 1952) where Hubbard said:
You are only three or four hours from taking your glasses off for keeps.
Here is our answer to this question:
I shocked Leah by telling her Hubbard had claimed that he was not from this planet.
I promised to find the reference, it is Class VIII Tape 8 titled Certainty of Standard Tech. Here is what Hubbard said:
I’m going to let you in on something. I didn’t even get R6ed. I’m not from this planet. Now, if I can take it on that it’d be a very good thing to clean up this planet, you who were here can damn well share the responsibility and not say it’s all up to Ron. That’s an interesting thought, isn’t it?
We talk about the idea that education outside scientology is a waste of time. Here’s Hubbard’s view on college:
Advanced Courses [in Scientology] are the most valuable service on the planet. Life insurance, houses, cars, stocks, bonds, college savings, all are transitory and impermanent… There is nothing to compare with Advanced Courses. They are infinitely valuable and transcend time itself.
He even claims in The Factors:
Certainty, not data, is knowledge.
And in the 1964 lecture Study and Education he says the following:
Now, practically everyone in the Western world has had a considerable sum invested in them to become educated. That’s a considerable sum. It runs into the thousands of pounds; whichever way you want to look at it. It runs into the many, many thousands of dollars. By the time a young man has gotten through college, for instance, he stands, educationally, at something on the order of the ten— thousand dollar mark, or did ten years ago; that’s an old figure. And he probably stands at a higher figure today. That’s a lot of money to invest in a man—for maybe no result.
All right, so a lot has been spent upon his education but has he become educated?
Male voice: No.
Yeah, and that’s the quarrel. See, there was—a lot is spent on his education but he didn’t get educated.
This was an excellent episode of the podcast. Everyone had great questions some which had seriouse answers and some which had hilarious answers between you and Leah. You got me to laugh so hard that I was in tears. Both of you are very informative and funny at the same time. It’s this type of thing thay shows that you care and want to expose Scientology for what it is.
Hello Leah and Mike, can you explain in one podcast episode the way Scientology operates nowadays. In other words: What does Scientology do nowadays to recruit new members? I am not sure if I heard the explanation because there is so much information about it but can you get into that in one of your podcast episodes?
Hey Mike!
I was dying at Leah’s response to LRon Hubbard saying he is not from this planet. When you quoted him above what does he mean by saying he was not even R6ed?
Means he was not subjected to the R6 “implant” (ie OT III incident)
Mike, why don’t you and Leah write a book about how to get out of Scientology?
The problem is that its different for everyone…
Entertaining and informative as usual.
I liked that Oxygen was one of the sponsors of the podcast. Would love it if they would take on the Lisa McPherson case.
Hello Leah and Mike, I am Milton and I’m from Germany. I am a very dedicated listener of your podcast. You guys are doing a great job and I learned quite a lot through your podcast. I would like to know where I can ask my questions. Could you please explain maybe at the beginning of your next podcast episode where one can ask listerner questions? I am sorry for this kind of request. I am not sure if I can ask them here in the comments or somewhere else.
Kind regards
The art of scientology doesn’t match the crimes the cult of scientology achieved.
Mike in one of the next listener question’s episodes would be great to hear something about Mary Sue, when DM took from her hands the control she still had on scn – after she came out from jail.
Great episode. Thank you guys.
Hubbard contradictions are so incredible and some time disconcerning.
When one day, in hindsight, someone will list the most deleterious people of the 20th century, he’ll be there. Not only for what he did in life but also for all the subsequent consequences of what he set up.
Or if he is lucky would be just fogotten.
I love listening to your podcast! Love you two together and would listen and watch any project you do! I live in the Midwest and the question about why Scientology is not popular in the Midwest, I thought, was a good one. I think Leah’s point about about values in the Midwest is spot on. I believe as soon as any one would tell a Midwesterner they have to pay $300,000 for promised eternity or leave our families and friends would not fly. Like Leah said, community is so important here and our roots run deep. I also think your show has hindered any future plans for Scientology to expand here so thank you for that! 😃
Keep up the fight and you have my support from Iowa! Hugs to you both!!!
Amazing how many LRH writings happen to support whatever gets him the most money the fastest.
Would love to see the whole video. Any chance you’ll post it in its entirety?
I have added 3 video clips from this episode to the post.
Hello and thank you for letting me comment. I really don’t have anything profound to say, but I do in my way fight the fight along with you. My fight may not be in a podcast, Netflix, HBO etc. etc. etc., but I will do what I can!! Leah, damn girl you are gorgeous as hell and Mikey – you are such a cutie pie! You both make me want to listen and watch anything and everything you do!!!! KEEP fighting and stay strong. Bless you both and all who help you get the truth out. PS…Leah, keep dropping F bombs!! I can totally relate!!
Lots of love to you both all the way from Denver Colorado!!!!
Hi, Mike (and Leah) I just got done listening to Listeners Questions Part 8 as part of my morning commute to my (second) job.
I was very excited to hear my city of St. Louis namedropped. My ears perked up when you, Mike, specifically said you’ve been here. Did you visit our very tall, very shiny lightning rod by the river?
Your discussion of Scientology in the Midwest got me thinking: is it that Midwesterners are less likely to break from their established faith or is it that there is little money to be siphoned from potential parishioners? From my understanding of the mechanisms of the organization, Scientology would insert itself somewhere if they thought they could make a profit.
I do know there is a “Church” of Scientology here in St. Louis located not that far from from Washington University but I do not think there is many people there or that they make a impact on the community. When would Scientology have been interested in St. Louis?
I ask the financial question because I could see Scientology having to battle the strong conservative ideas about money in places even twenty minutes away from St. Louis (where I live) where it’s not farm country but may as well be.
It’s interesting to note that I worked at Six Flags St. Louis where I worked with a girl who was a Scientologist. When I knew her, she was working while her parents were in Clearwater.
Also, I live with my grandma and step-grandfather. Me and my step-grandfather have completely different political and religious views. One of the only topics we can talk about without getting angry is how much we both hate Scientology. I didn’t even know we both listened to this podcast until I heard an Australian voice from the next room one day and thought, “Is that Mike Rinder?!” I don’t even know how he knew about the podcast. Anyway, if Scientology has done anything good for the world, it’s given two family members with opposing politics something to talk about.
I always look forward to the Listener Questions podcasts because I love hearing you two banter! Your friendship is the best!
Thanks,
Mechelle
Thanks so much for this wonderful comment Mechelle. Happy to hear that you have a mutual dislike for scientology and it brings you together!
And yes, I did visit the Gateway Arch.
Mechelle, I think you hit upon something here: A big challenge for Scientology catching on in the Midwest of the United States is the reality of people’s conservative views on money and spending. God bless the people of the Midwest for that. Without yielding to a stereotype, I have a difficult time imagining the average person in the Midwest gravitating toward “get rich quick” schemes.
For so many low to medium wage earners, that is how Scientology presents itself, a “get rich quick” scheme: “If you donate this much—sure, it’s a lot, but then… look how your blah-blah-blah money flows will open up, and then you will join the ranks of Grant Cardone, Nancy Cartwright, Tom Cruise” etc.
If someone has the social training to not be an easy mark for a con artist group, that seems a pretty good repellant against Scientology, with its endless stream of financial pushes and outcomes of most prodigious unreality.
hagiography
[ˌhaɡēˈäɡrəfē, ˌhāɡēˈäɡrəfē]
NOUN
the writing of the lives of saints.
derogatory
adulatory writing about another person.
biography that idealizes its subject.
“a hagiography which is designed to serve a political agenda” · “the result is not hagiography but a fitting monument to a giant of 20th-century music”
OMG!! You guys are just hysterical together. There’s a look you both have – to me it’s like one of sibling love, respect and admiration for the other. After your 6 minute intro vid now it’s time to get to listening. Thanks for all you do.
As an eye care professional i will say Leah’s spectacle game is always on point.
Video of the two of you is always welcomed and appreciated!
Thanks!
So, it’s a high crime to not disconnect from an SP, who is anyone who speaks out… And they say that disconnection is no longer a policy?
It’s interesting to read this, as I was declared (without my knowledge) after going briefly to David Mayo’s group after I left Scientology and without any committee of evidence or even informing me of my new status. I learned about it 20 years later when my niece also disconnected (my two sisters had already disconnected) because she was about to do her OT levels. It was very weird. She sent me a letter saying things had changed and there was no disconnection policy and she hoped I’d do the A- E so that she could stay in touch. It included my SP declare, which I had never seen before.
Of course they (Davey) have no interest in hewing to long-standing policy, as Davey don’t need to obey ANY laws, study anything, nor go into session. All that is for his minions when he wants to punish them.
They don’t have that much time left.
As per copy right laws in USA, 95 years after the date original publication or after 70 years after the death of the author, which ever is shorter, his work become free stuff ( previously it was 50 years,in Canada it is still 50 years)
Had that amendment not made a decade back , fifteen years from today all those books were to be printed with editing, explanations,narratives etc from the prospective of individual publishers.
Now it got extention of 25 more years.
You hardly see any Cult making century, as they are the product of the previous decades (like cold War era in this case ) and dies out after couple of decade later, following Geopolitical and Social changes.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries%27_copyright_lengths
So I wonder has Danny Masterson be declared an SP for his clearly heinous sexual abuses?
I caught that, too, BKmole:
“sexual or sexually perverted conduct contrary to the well-being or good state of mind of a Scientologist in good standing or under the chart of Scientology, such as a student or preclear.”
Danny SHOULD have been comm-eved under that and declared, not to mention impersonating a celebrity/actor.
O/T. Congresswoman Karen Bass
set to launch Los Angeles mayoral
run in 2022. (Scientology related.)
Note: Bass is relevant to Scientology because she:
(1) spoke at the grand opening of the Los Angeles Ideal Org;
(2) later endorsed Scientology front-group Youth for Human Rights; and
(3) later issued a “Certificate of Special Congressional Recognition” to Scientology Youth For Human Rights Award Winner Nation of Islam Brother Rizza Islam.
————————————————————–
Politico: Bass set to launch Los Angeles mayoral run
The California congresswoman would be an early favorite in the race.
By NICHOLAS WU and JEREMY B. WHITE
09/24/2021 11:38 AM EDT
Updated: 09/24/2021 12:27 PM EDT
https://www.politico.com/news/2021/09/24/karen-bass-los-angeles-mayor-514127
* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *
Rep. Karen Bass is set to run for mayor of Los Angeles, according to a source familiar with the matter.
Her entry would immediately reshape the nascent contest to govern America’s second-largest city. While the field is still forming ahead of a 2022 vote, Bass (D-Calif.) wields broad name recognition and deep popularity among Black Angelenos and progressive activists who have urged her to run.
* * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
/
PLease include also the fact that she later said she did not endorse these things and had become educated after watching The Aftermath.
I am so happy to read that Karen Bass watched the Aftermath program. I hope this means that she has recanted her support of Scientology front groups.
Mike, I recall that you are correct. However, my memory is that both you and Leah were dissatisfied with Bass’s explanation. (My recollection may be faulty.)
I’d like to add that Tony Ortega reported that Bass issued the Certificate of Special Congressional Recognition to Rizza Islam in January 2021, after the controversy when Bass was being vetted for VP:
https://tonyortega.org/2021/01/14/hanan-and-rizza-islam-get-trial-date-for-4-million-medi-cal-fraud-at-scientology-rehab/
To be fair, Bass may have been unaware of Rizza Islam’s connection to Scientology. Still, she issued a Certificate of Special Congressional Recognition to a member of the Nation of Islam who is so anti-Semitic that he has his own ADL page, and while his felony criminal trial for fraud was pending:
https://www.adl.org/resources/backgrounders/rizza-islam
I think it is safe to say that Bass may have a problem properly vetting organizations and people.
/
You can find her statement here: https://tonyortega.org/2021/01/14/hanan-and-rizza-islam-get-trial-date-for-4-million-medi-cal-fraud-at-scientology-rehab/
An organization serving girls in the foster care system in South Los Angeles held its annual concert in 2019 and requested certificates for individuals that they were honoring. Rep. Karen Bass is a founder and co-chair of the Congressional Caucus on Foster Youth and has fought to protect the vulnerable and abused throughout her career. Our office provided the certificates when they were requested, using standard language on pre-printed Congressional certificates. These certificates did not in any way constitute endorsement of individual honorees. The Office of Rep. Karen Bass was at no time aware of the felony charges against Ronnie Islam. Rep. Bass, who has seen The Aftermath series, in no way supports his poisonous anti-Semitic and pro-Scientology beliefs.
Thanks. I added the information to the ESMBR and WWP threads. I should have added it originally, but had forgotten about her statement about Rizza Islam. My mistake.
/
No problem. I just want everyone to know she got herself educated…
How can Bass as mayor possibly screw things up worse than they already are in LA? It’s already a hotbed of scientology (and NOI, if I’m not mistaken.)
I’ve just filed her in the same attention-whore folder as Joyless Villa.
She had a change of heart after watching The Aftermath
So glad to hear that. She certainly was challenged on this when she was being considered for VP.