This week we welcome Nora Ames, former SO member and outspoken whistleblower concerning the hypocrisy of scientology’s rampant homophobia. She has one of the most incredible and harrowing escape from the Sea Org stories. We cover it in some detail, as well as what she did to get her mother out of scientology. Both her father and mother were scientology Guardian Office workers.
Nora’s video from 2016 on Tony Ortega’s Underground Bunker.
Direct link to video on YouTube:
In the episode, Leah says to Google the Guardian’s Office. These days, the Wikipedia entry for Guardian’s Office is under Office of Special Affairs
Here is what you get when you Google Fair Game
We mention the DOJ Sentencing memorandum which was filed in the criminal case against Mary Sue Hubbard and the other Guardian Office criminals — brief excerpts from the very lengthy document are below:
Scientology has a less than glorious history in the Courts (despite what they claim):
What Judges say about scientology
The Wikipedia entry: Scientology and Law
The definition of Murder Routine from the scientology “Technical Dictionary”
My earlier post: Scientology Homophobia
Joseph Stanley says
Thanks for sharing this Nora. This hits really hard as a former Sea Org member for me as a LGBTQI.
Stay Strong Sis, you are a great person and I love your enthusiasm. Light is the best disinfectant.
Debbie Baumgart says
Excellent episode with Nora Ames. I love all of your episodes and all the work you and Leah do with Aftermath and Fair Game. Keep up the great work.
Joe Pendleton says
Mike, I met Nora’s mother in 1968 and got her into Scientology in 1970, so I’ve known Nora since she was born, and was living with her and her husband Cameron when they had their first son.
Nora, her mother Kathy and I are all “SPs” and the end of our Scientology careers were perfect examples of how Scientology ” eats its own.” Nora is not only a highly intelligent and hard working person, she is also very friendly, compassionate and loving and exactly the kind of charismatic and dare I use the term, “high toned” individual that the CoS REALLY should want working with celebrities, and in fact, all public. She was a STELLER Sea Org member at CC for years, but then committed the crime of being attracted to another female and kissing her.
Nora’s mother Kathy was an extremely accomplished Cl.8 auditor and Cl. 6 CS, with the same individual qualities as Nora and again, the exact type of person the CoS would HAVE to have if it was at ALL serious about their joke supposed intention of wanting to “clear the planet.” I won’t blow my own horn here about my almost 35 year “tech” career, but like Karen DLC, my old friend Sheldon Goldberg and so many others , the CoS wasted its best people who have DECADES of proven dedication and skill.
All of us were “kicked out” of Scientology AFTER we left, which in itself is a great joke. But maybe this all somehow proves LRH’s idea of what a group does to protect others from itself. By getting rid of its best and most experienced people, the CoS has completely reduced its OWN reach, thus protecting the general public from itself as it has flushes itself down the toilet.
I have no regrets about joining the CoS and Kathy met Nora’s father there and I would not have missed knowing Nora, her sister Sara, and Nora’s sons for the world . So that part worked out well, and now Nora and her wife are raising four great kids. Nora is a survivor , and she helped her step father when he needed her …. and now she helps me survive too in me old age … quite a person!!!!!
Mike Rinder says
Wonderful comment Joe. Thanks for taking the time to add to this amazing story.
O/T. VIDEO: Aaron Smith-Levin Interviewed on TruNews: Scientology Infiltrating Ministries
As long as an adult does something in private with another consenting adult doesn’t have an effect on me I DON’T CARE!
Milton Paca says
Hey Mike , I enjoyed the episode today and I wish Nora Ames a lot success and happiness in her future life. I also dropped a nice comment for you and Leah below on this page. I think you guys should read this.
Wait, wait wait!
You CAN be gay and be in Scientology!
What about that actress who lives with a woman openly and is a Scientologist?
(Name escapes me now, never watched her hit show back in the day; dark hair, very attractive, was married, now divorced, and OPENLY gay and living with a woman.)
But then, she’s a celeb, so same rules do not apply, I suppose.
Mike Rinder says
When was the last time you saw her promoting scientology? After she started living with Penny Atwell-Jones daughter Brooke, she stopped being in the front row at events….
maria mccartan says
well thats ofcourse just a coincidence
I have noticed that Catherine Bell doesn’t publicly say much about Scientology but a quick look through her public Instagram and it seems as though she is still friends with many, many Scientologists. It also looks as though she sends her daughter to Delphian School in Oregon…so, I’m guessing she and Penny Atwell Jones’ daughter pick & choose what to believe in Scientology? From listening to your previous podcasts, it seems as though that neither of those things (lesbianism/having friendships with Scientologists if you have let the “religion”) are “allowed”. I know y’all have said that celebrities are treated differently but the whole “being gay/1:1 on the tone scale” seems as though having a relationship & living with a woman would not be “tolerated”, celebrity or not. So, is there acceptance of LGBTQ for celebrities or is it just ignored?
Really fantastic piece today, Mike!
Hey Mike, TY for highlighting the homophobia of scientology and miscavige especially. It has helped me to make sense of the insanely homophobic, transphobic, misogynistic, and pornographic abuse that the cult has hurled at me over the years. (FTR i hurl it right back and that makes DM even madder lol – i guess he failed his bullbaiting sessions!) In my experience, scientology is the most homophobic group i have ever personally encountered, even as they tried to hide who they were. Funny eh? THEY are the closteted ones!
I did a lot of co-auditing with a gay guy while I was training at ASHO in LA in the 1970’s. As long as he didn’t hit on other scns he stayed out of trouble. The Ethics Officer probably had enough problems dealing with heterosexual second dynamic upsets.
I know a guy that went all the way to Solo Nuts. He told me that as long as he didn’t have an actual gay relationship they let him on the Bridge. This was in the 90’s.
“Solo Nuts”…Laughter!..Good one, Real 🙂
El Wrong Tubbolard spent SO much time on “covert hostility” because he exhibited ALL traits he ascribed to that “tone level”. Just think, kidnapping his own baby daughter from her mother and threatening the mother with murdering the daughter if the mother didn’t do what Hubturd wanted. Just that one example pegs him at 1.1 on his invented chart.
As re his social tone I’d agree; 1.1. But his actual tone I’d say was lower. Much lower. Below Body Death – Controlling Bodies.
I want to add Nora’s excellent YouTube video Why You Can’t Be Gay In Scientology.
Mike Rinder says
Thanks, it’s the same video as on Ortega’s blog… Now added direct link to YouTube in post
Milton Paca says
Hey Mike, I want to express my support for you and Leah. I am reading a lot of nasty stuff about her and you and this really enrages me. I know that this is a known fact, but it still bothers me to hear that. I want you guys to know that there are people like me and others who support what you do and to remind yourselves of why you are doing this. I just want to make sure that you and Leah read this positive comment because I know how hurtful nasty comments can be and that you guys need a good comment as a compensation and a reason to go on with your fight against the injustice in Scientology. I am trying to encourage you to continue and I will support you to the best of my ability.
jim rowles says
Fantastic compilation of absolutely relevant aspects of the cult of scientology. With what is currently available on the web that reveals what they DO verses what they say, it’s surprising that anyone is in their ranks.