Mike Rinder's Blog

Something Can Be Done About It

Flag Failing – 10,000 on Solo NOTs Hopeless

By 171 Comments

Oh dear. Things not looking for the 10,000 onto or through Solo NOTs target.

They’ve been working on this target for nearly 30 years and are still not close.

Apparently, even the chief cheerleader for achieving this target has given up. For years the D/Captain for Delivery Flag AO Mr. Clive Rabies has been doing “mandatory briefings” for “OT’s only” to try to drum up enthusiasm for people getting onto OT VII.

Now he has been reduced to doing personal org board “workshops” at the FH for $25 a head.

I suspect the truth is that the number of people auditing on OT VII continues to decline and there are an increasing number of “black tags” who are not auditing at all. Though the figure of 10,000 is cumulative, they have not COMPLETED more than 5,000 in all this time (the rest are “on the level”). But the fact is that a good percentage of these people have died, and an even larger percentage have abandoned scientology.

The number of people reaching the top of the Bridge in scientology is getting less and less every year.

It’s likely Clive cannot even find enough work to keep himself busy in the Flag AO. So he has been told to “find something useful to do” and this is what he came up with.

I bet there were less than a handful of attendees yesterday.

Comments

  1. Photo at top; Clive Rabey showing how big, he swears it’s true, the wallet was that he caught that day. You should have seen the one that got away yesterday.

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  2. Today’s Scilon Executive Officer is tomorrow’s in the Hole or RPF victim eating slop, doing pointless torture-cises and generally wasting their precious lives away. I don’t know how you can have a bigger incentive to be part of such wondrous practices and treatment at the hands of a capricious, desperate, delusional & vindictive Miss Manage, yeah? Little Davey ironically is the most Suppressive Person in the whole cult of $cientology and personally is responsible for it’s downfall (as Captain Obvious would say).

    Reading in-the-know Jesse Prince’s book the diminutive egotistical cult leader is quite the criminal “mastermind” too.

    Reply

  3. The delusion runs deep with those who toil “on the level”. in other words doing Solo NOTs. Once I was setting up for an event at the Ruth Eckerd Hall and overheard some Scientologists talking about the fall of the Berlin Wall. They were taking personal credit for it,

    You see, as the disembodied beings known as “body thetans” are released by those who spend hours each day releasing them, all manner of evil in the world is also supposedly released. Sort of like those prayer wheels in Tibet, or a TV evangelist who calls for prayer from his flock touching their hands to the glowing screen, a wave of healing life energy is supposed to emanate from the released beings as they flee. Or something like that.

    At least that is what they think. Hence the call for 10,000 “on the level”. Not just for folks to spend tons of money getting their six-month checks at the Flag Land Base, not only to give Dave something to brag about at events, they also think they are saving the world.

    Since they can’t even truly save themselves, it is a heartlessly cynical form of extortion in reality.

    Reply

  4. “…an even larger percentage (on or through Solo Nots) has abandoned Scientology…” you got that right, Mike. You can count me and my significant other as two of them.

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  5. “…mandatory briefings for OT’s only…”

    There is that word again, “Mandatory”.

    What is wrong with this silly bunch? Why piss off the drunkest of the KoolAid drinking crowd?

    If scientologists ever wonder why there are more ex-scientology OT’s than still-in OT’s, these bullshit clarion calls for mandatory attendance might give the slightest of clues.

    Reply

  6. I think it’s wrong to call this conscientious gentleman Rabey ‘Mr. Rabies.’ It may be funny to you, but as I am a fully-paid mad dog who sometimes froths at the mouth, I think to compare us with Scientologists and the like is more than we can stand.

    Reply

  7. ETA: I’ve also had some problems with my PayPal account. Someone tried to make a fraudulent purchase to the tune of $1500 using my account. I noticed it in time and with help from PayPal it was all taken care of.

    But it now occurs to me that I used that PayPal account to make a few contributions to this blog. Has anyone else experienced any problems like that with PayPal or any other kind of “hacker attack” on their computers recently?

    Reply

      • Thanks for your reply. I suppose I will never know the truth. I guess that’s one of the disadvantages to live on the Internet.

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    • Hmmm. Skyler, were you ever a member of scientology, or god forbid, still-in? The first thing that occurred to me was that you are a scientologist trying to sow discord.

      Sorry if that is not true, but we all know what kind of shitheads exist in scientology who might attempt something like that. But, then again, they ALWAYS shoot themselves in the foot, so there’s that.

      Reply

    • Go find some of the many anti-scammers on Youtube and you will see how varied and extensive the scams are. What you are experiencing sounds like the front end of some scam. Next comes the “Microsoft Certified Level V Repair Technician” who will fix your computer, remotely, for a hefty fee. Then the scammer uses some common tools and, with your help by allowing him remote access to your computer, pretends to fix something, and a whole list of filenames scrolls down your screen, but in fact they are reading from a script, and those filenames are just a pretend video. They know no more about fixing computers or email accounts than a pet rock.

      India is the hub right now – it is so bad that whyenever I get a phone call with an accent from the Indian sub-continent I simply say “sorry I don’t like your accent” and hang up.
      Apparently India has plenty of thieves and thieving phone banks, all willing to take advantage of old grandma and anyone with a poor sense of computer operation, or unable to recognize pure bunk when they see it in front of them. They casually pretend to be anyone from Microsoft to the US Internal Revenue Service to some law enforcement arm coming to arrest you if you don’t give them money before noon today, preferably using some screwy method like buying $500 pre-paid music credit cards, or the like, then turning them over to the scammer.

      Reply

  8. I recently received an Email from Microsoft (or a very clever fraudster pretending to be from MS) who claimed that my Email account is being suspended because it was used to send out many SPAM or other inappropriate messages or was involved in some other conduct that violates their Agreement.

    The thing is, the only thing I have used this email account for was to make a few posts on this board.

    My guess is that someone who may be a Scientologist or pro-Scientology has made a bogus complaint to MS that I have sent them inappropriate Emails in an attempt to get my Email account shut down.

    Has anyone here had a similar experience?

    I really don’t care if they terminate this Email account because I usually use free disposable Email accounts and this is one of those. It takes me all of about two minutes to create a new free email account.

    But I just wanted to post this in case some Scio assholes have found a way to get my Email address and are trying to harrass people who post to this board.

    Reply

        • No Still In openly reads or posts on this blog. Either would be considered a Suppressive Act with severe and expensive consequences and more likely an unofficial declare.

          Reply

      • You don’t know that (as in: you can’t prove that).

        Many people post here using a nickname.

        They can have all sorts of reasons to do that, e.g. wanting to stay under the radar, or wanting not to be identified as scilons on some mission, A-E or whatever. Also, fair chance there are trolls who were never in and just want to, well, troll.

        This is the internet. Always be vigilant (or whatever the word is) for people with less good intentions.

        Reply

    • I had a similar “scam” from Apple saying updates to my malware needed….it made me nervous, so I called Apple and they said no, it’s a scam….my friend had a Wells Fargo scam, looked just like their logo and they wiped out her bank account….that was years ago before people got savvy to this stuff, but yeah Skyler, there are weird things out there in internet land.

      Reply

      • I got the Well Fargo one, too! And a few others. I don’t even have a Wells Fargo account, so didn’t “touch” it.

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    • Only odd event that was happening to me was for a few months after Marty started his whatever videos, I got links to them in my email.
      It had nothing to do with this site. If you are that good at setting up another account, I suggest move on.

      Reply

    • It’s a constant daydream fantasy of mine: to have huge turnouts by Anonymous once again to protest against scientology. Sadly, too many people have short attention spans and the particular “cause of the moment” that happens to be in vogue takes precedence.

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      • @ bix,

        Understood.
        Now all we need is the speech: “I Have A Dream” 🙂
        From our very own MLK on the Fringes of the Internet 🙂
        I bet it would be powerful 🙂

        Reply

  10. The shrinking number of public on OT VII and VIII is a direct reflection on Miscavige’s personal belief in Scientology.

    I don’t think DM has ever believed in the Tech or had the wins that keep you in the bubble. His game has always been power and mest.

    His actions undermining auditing and training and his focus on shiny stuff makes it obvious.

    With no personal investment, Scientology is doomed. The more time goes by, the clearer it is for those still in that the leadership doesn’t believe in what they’re selling. It’s all money, donations, pretend front groups.
    Nothing else.

    Even Hubbard, as mad as he was, truly believed in his tech. Janis Grady’s new book really makes the point. And, to the very end, Hubbard was trying to audit himself and fix whatever.

    Reply

    • ” I don’t think DM has ever believed in the Tech or had the wins that keep you in the bubble. His game has always been power and mest.”

      I agree – but I don’t think it’s an either-or situation with him (he’s not going to retire with a Swiss bank account and just leave). Scientology is all he’s ever known; he doesn’t know anything else. But yes, his world view within the bubble is all about power.

      Reply

    • The person running each of the individual Sea Org units is given the title of Captain. The person running the FSO (Flag Service Organization) is thus called the Captain FSO. Miscavige has the title of Chairman of the Board or COB for short, no pun intended.

      Reply

  12. A count of names on completion lists came up with the figure of 2,858 OT VIIIs by 2012. After an initial spike in the years following the release of the level, completions sank back down to between zero and a few dozen reported for many years, but had starting climbing to between one hundred and two hundred per year by the time of the count. I’m guessing that completions collapsed again after 2011-12, which fits with the pictures we now see maybe a couple times a year of a handful of people on the ship holding their completion certificates.

    So Scientology has probably made just over 3 thousand OT VIIIs by this point. Nearly half of those were in the first 8 years, a group of people who would probably mostly be in their 70s and 80s if they’re still alive – OT VIIIs are almost certainly now dying off (not to mention blowing) much faster than they’re being made.

    Reply

  13. I was in a diner out of town the other day after watching my grandson play baseball. While we were there, there was a couple who came in and sat next to us. They looked oooooollllldddd… You’ve seen the type, so old that it’s not even worth the effort to comb your hair. Their skin was the same grey as their hair. They sort of held onto each other as they stumbled to their seats.

    The waitress came up and congratulated the woman on her 50th birthday. I had to contain my gasp. I would have placed them closer to an old frail 80ish couple.

    Clive looks that same shade of grey. Skin, hair, even his semi-forced semi-smile. He just looks beat down by life. I understand he’s been a flim flam man for scientology for a lot of years, but the look on his face says there’s no escape and he knows it.

    Someone please slip him an aftermath foundation card.

    Reply

    • First off, Valerie, regarding watching your grandson play…Ahhhhhhhhhhhh! I have a two year old grandson who the light of my life!

      Ok, back to business. Valerie, I’ve hung around the Pasadena Idle Morgue many times. And you’re right! It’s only older people going in. And I’ll bet they shame them if they don’t show up.

      I friend of mine and I were hanging around the Org one day. Well Andrew, one of the cult members, said there were 200 people on course! Whoa! How did they do that?! We asked if we could see the course room. We were DENIED! So we waited several hours to see if those 200 members existed the building. We didn’t see anyone coming out.

      Reply

  14. This kind of thing makes me wonder how still-ins can not be aware of what is going on. Surely they can see that the orgs are empty and that there is no wave of expansion. They can’t keep everyone off the internet like they live in North Korea or something. They have to know virtually all Scientology activity on earth is happening at Flag.

    I am sure there are still-ins even reading this post now. How do you resolve the unresolvable differences between what you are being told and what you see for yourself? Look, don’t listen?

    Reply

    • I think Jesse describes it really well in his book in Chapter 25 – FInding My Way Back To Humanity. There really is a giant protective bubble wrapped around those who are still in.

      You are told what to believe and you believe that and nothing else. You look only at what you are told to see.

      The biggest problem would be for 2nd or 3rd generation scientologists. Those who are 1st generation scientologists had some kind of moralistic background and training before they were indoctrinated by scientology so their mind will fight against the unreality more than the 2nd and 3rd generation scientologists who have never known anything else and who have never been raised with a true sense of morality or a sense that they are anything but superior to those on the “outside”.

      Reply

    • I’m not sure how long ago this happened. Maybe 10 years? Or 15? But, Corn on the COB paid a visit to the New York Idle Morgue. When he walked in he said, ‘Where are all the people!’ So knowing this, how many members do you think they have? Five thousand? Ten thousand?

      You guys tell me.

      Reply

      • “Where are all the people?”

        LOL!

        Aqua’s DREAM ANSWER to this, from Staff to Dwarf:

        “Where are all the people, Sir? Well, each day, hundreds of thousands of them, only a hundred or so feet away from this very org, are sight-seeing, attending movies, plays, musicals and other shows, , spending their money in restaurants, bars, night clubs and hotels, gainfully employed and working at jobs located in the Times Square area, commuting through Times Square, and, in brief, Sir, all the people are pretty much being, doing and having ANYTHING that is possible to be do or have in Times Square EXCEPT coming in to our org here to sign up for services. Respectfully, I hope that answers your question, Sir.”

        Reply

    • The only people that don’t read the internet are scientologists that are on services or might be on services. If a scientologist knows he/she is done, they read the internet or continue listening if there is some comment or ad on the TV that mentions scientology.

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          • WhatAreYourCrimes,

            YES. I have said it before but it is true: Mismanage did sic his lawyers onto the internet over Tom’s taped antics. HE poked the nest and thereby birthed the Anon movement that has eviscerated scientology.

            Thank you SIR!

            Reply

            • Jim, you are correct.

              In fact, everything Miscavige touches turns to shit.

              He is the most hapless fool that has ever pretended to run an organization.

              He is the George Costanza of cults, and I bet he is quietly laughed at because of his “shrinkage” below the waist too.

              Reply

    • MarcAnon
      I am a still in
      Getting out of doubt
      And getting out for real

      Thanks Mike Rinder and Leah Remini

      It takes courage and integrity to face the truth

      You both are caring and compassionate human beings!

      You saved my life!

      Reply

      • I can only suggest you don’t dally too much with the doubt thingy MaH. As they say in the vernacular …………..Blow that frickin pop stand!

        Reply

      • Hey, Musician!

        Great on confronting and doing the Doubt Formula on the Church of Scientology! Just your willingness to LOOK puts you head and shoulders above those who talk the talk of Scientology
        – being able to confront anything, blah blah blah, having the tech to confront and shatter all suppression, yada yada, and last but not least, observing what is right in front of your face, duh…sure, they TALK a good game , many of them, but when it comes to walking the walk – forget it! They can’t, or they just wont’.

        So whatever you decide, you at least were willing to look in order to live with the truth.

        And that’s no small thing! No kidding, that’s a very big deal!

        Thanks for sharing your process with us, Musician.

        Reply

        • Thank you everyone for your support.

          I am now officially out of Doubt and out of the Church of Scientology.

          I am reading everything I can find about L Ron Hubbard and Scientology. I am watching every documentary and every video I can find.

          There is more information available on the net than Scientology has books and lectures. Information regarding how they have harmed and maimed good people that joined the cult and wanted to help.

          I am so humiliated I believed this criminal fake church.

          The leader is an evil man who beats staff and sits on riches hob-nobbing with celebrities to feed his narcissistic ego.

          I am horrified as to what Scientology really is and how clever they were to mask the truth and keep people silenced.

          No wonder the Church of Scientology makes it a high crime to look at the Internet. It is totally a criminal billion dollar empire where the leader gets to play a game where he thinks he will win as he wipes the blood off of his tiny little hands. I hope he goes to prison for life.

          Scientology has always been in treason. It commits crimes against humanity and gets away with it right under the governments nose because it has been deemed a religion. The religious status was gotten through extortion.

          Scientology is nothing but a cult that harms its members and gets away with it with all the cleverness of a mafia organization.

          I am so out of there.

          I will figure out a way to get my family out now.

          Thank you for doing something about it Mike Rinder. You are the humanitarian.

          Reply

          • @ Musician:

            “I am so out of there.”
            WOW! SO GLAD TO HEAR THIS!

            “I will figure out a way to get my family out now.”
            MUSICIAN, I HAVE NO DOUBT THAT YOU WILL!

            Sounds to me like you have a level head, clever head on your shoulders and, however long it might take you, no matter how much patience and fortitude it requires, you’ll get them to see what you see. You’ll do it!

            My money is on you, Musician. So glad to have you with us.

            Reply

            • Aquamarine – THANK YOU! I have not had any type of personal support within Scientology for sooooooooooo long – I appreciate it here.

              Scientology adverstises to newbies “Achieve your Goals” ??????

              My goals were smashed by Scientology.

              No more!

              I am jumping off the Bridge into Total Freedom and will now pursue my goals. It feels good!

              Reply

              • You’re so welcome, Musician. And know this: your dreams are YOUR dreams; your goals are YOUR goals and appearances to the contrary, no one can take them from you.

                The only one who can smash your dreams is you, no one else, unless you let them..

                And I’m glad you’re not letting them!

                You’ll have friends here.

                COURAGEOUS PEOPLE ARE HERE. People, who lost just about everything yet built their lives back, got their grooves back, became happy again, and are still working through this process.

                .( I’m not speaking of myself, btw. Unlike many people here and elsewhere I didn’t lose anything when I left the cult.)

                Still, very day I come here and learn a little, heal a little, laugh a little.

                You’re in a good place 🙂

      • From one musician to another: sounds like you’re in the coda; accelerando to that final bar! There are a lot of new tunes to be played out there – and reach out to the Aftermath Foundation. Wishing you all the best!

        Reply

  15. I have read several stories similar to my own on this site and elsewhere..

    I had recently finished with OT V and headed to Flag to continue on the Bridge with VII.
    I was very fired up about this at the time.

    The service was by far the most expensive I had ever experienced.
    The set-ups were interminable and largely useless to me.
    The sec-check took forever, largely due to the large number of fishing trips my auditor took and sec check questions being re-checked after an F/N had been called.

    I later heard that this latter evil practice was introduced by RTC to get their stats up???

    At some point I realized that continuing with this would bankrupt me.

    I never did get onto the Level or return to Flag or do any more courses.
    This was the beginning of my journey out of Scientology.

    Reply

        • Hello Everyone.

          Today, September 29th, in Portland, Oregon, I drove to the Convention Center where they were having a “Spirit, Health, and body” event. I am sure you are familiar with the “past life readings,” “read your palm”, etc. at these events. I went to see our mutual friends the Scientologists at their booth.

          They ended up having two booths, A Scientology booth with a FREE stress test and of course books to buy, and the other one across the way from the Scientology booth that was for Dionetics. (spelling).

          I had made copies of “The Aftermath Foundation” which gave the phone number of the foundation, and e-mail address.

          I took the copies to the convention and handed them out to the Scientology people. Right away I was told by a guy I will call “Zippy the Pinhead” small, balding guy 100 pounds soaking wet, (no offence to anyone who is reading this), and was told right away that “You cannot talk to my people.” I also gave a copy to the woman who was at the booth. Zippy came to me and asked if I was a vendor, and I said “No” he then told me he was going to charge me with “Religious Freedom” something or another. Nobody came to see me, and they all kept away from me, and I them.

          I did go back to the original booth and tried to talk to the original woman at the Scientology booth along with a new woman who had joined her. The new woman at the booth said: “You have to leave now, as you are not a nice man.” LOL.

          I would watch their booths and when someone would venture long enough to talk to them or get on the “Cans” I would wait until they got up and moved away and hand them the “Aftermath Foundation” card, and warn them not to get involved with the cult.

          In about 2 and a half hours, there was about 8 people who actually stopped and sat down at both of their booths. They now know about the “Aftermath Foundation” and to look on the internet and TV for more information.

          One guy that I handed a card to, (he just stopped at the Dynamics booth, but did not sit down. He said he knew all about Scientology from being in L.A. He said he knew enough not to get involved with them, and said never confront them. That might have been good advice way back when, but now, in your face.

          One last observation. I know that a lot of people have seen the “Aftermath” and the other blogs about Scientology, but I am kind of surprised that there are still some folks that have not heard of the abuses or horror stories (until I told them about them). LOL.

          All in all, a great morning.

          Keep up the great work, and I know for sure that the Portland Org is now aware of the “Aftermath Foundation” their phone number, and e-mail address. Hurrah!!

          Reply

    • Way to go Cavilier! Excellent story. Yet another example of how scientology is its own worst enemy. If they need to see an SP, they only need look in the mirror, or perhaps they should look at any photo of that childish thug Miscavige.

      Reply

    • Dear Cavelier,
      You did not miss much.
      Just the privilege to sit on a chair with a desk and a meter to hunt for space cooties by the tens of thousands.
      Then every half year back and you pay like $10.000 or so to be interrogated.
      After 5-7 years or never you say all gone and you are now a super person. It says so on the cert you sucker.Most dupes say i paid so much for so long this must be true

      Reply

  16. Thanks Mike

    You have pointed out just how degraded the cult has become. From abreactive talk therapy (50’s), to a set of limited but rigid processes (60’s), to a set of drills a-la-Crowley (70’s), to failing (80’s) and sliding down in expectations and abilities to the point–now- that they think it is marvelous to go out at low tide and build a sand castle and brag about it.

    10,000 or 100,000, or ten millions of NOTHING is still NOTHING.

    Reply

  17. I was immediately reminded of a memorable and well-known line from the T.S. Eliot poem “The Hollow Men.”

    This is the way the world ends
    not with a bang, but a whimper.

    I recently re-read it and was struck by what it seemed to portend for the COS.

    We are the hollow men
    We are the stuffed men
    Leaning together
    Headpiece filled with straw. Alas!
    Our dried voices, when
    We whisper together
    Are quiet and meaningless

    Worth a read: https://allpoetry.com/The-Hollow-Men

    Reply

    • Hey! Be careful. I’m one of those losers and I pay my bills and love livin life. Of course I don’t do kool aid but I did do ate and that my friend cooked my scio goose! After that it was color me gone.

      Yo Dave,
      Kiss my ass good buddy.

      Reply

      • “Ate” meaning OT8? I am always curious about the unvarnished reactions of people who made it that far when they finally sat down with “the materials.” What was it like for you?

        Reply

        • 🙂 @ Newcomer.

          Ms. Q,
          Good question, and I believe that Newcomer will not mince words in his response to you in that his reactions, at least here, are always “unvarnished” 🙂

          Reply

        • Yes Oh Tea Ate! my reaction was REALLY??!!!! And this is going to produce a super being with whole track recall and exteriorization with full perception?

          That of course came after another barrage of ship side sec-checking which followed the barrage of sec checking at Flog. But I got it. You were expected to DO WHAT YOU WERE ASKED/TOLD TO DO, after all, you were now in the rarefied air of being the best of the best. Cherch needs 250k ………. well get out the debit card and ’cause’ it to happen, after all……….YOU ARE OH TEA ATE…….MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

          My win ………….. I knew I was a prisoner of my cherch. I was done. I would never return. That produced the F/N I needed to get off the rust bucket. That was August 2003.

          Then came the Idle Morgue scene back home. Another story for another day.

          Reply

      • The materials say all those ideas that you were Napoleon or Cleopatra are false.The space cooties were thinking that you sucker.
        EP: I have been fooled.Now you either admit you were suckered
        or you write a success story how amazing it was and stagger on hoping to find a pony under the next pile of horse s..t.
        What would you do?

        Reply

      • Newcomer,

        Yep. My scio goose was ‘cooked’ in the early 80’s when I saw the non-results of NOTs and the SO militancy taking over.

        Reply

        • 750 unable to clear the planet? 10 thousands can do it. Finally it will handle about tha planets population. Entheta is greater than theta. Thetans are more enturbulated than peoplee in common.

          Reply

  21. Ah, yes. Pay $25 to listen to incomprehensible mumbo jumbo and balderdash and struggle to stay awake. It would be just like all the other events I’ve ever attended. And at the end having to stand and applaud just so I don’t get hassled by any of the “plants” searching for attendees with bad indicators. So, no thanks Mr. Rabey. As Mark Twain said; It is easier to stay out than get out.

    Reply

    • “Light refreshments and materials…”

      The New COS defines this as water and a 3″ x 5″ tablet.

      Yo Clive,
      How low can yer stats go? Prepare …… as bad as things are, they will get worse!

      Reply

  22. In the 80’s and 90’s there was a big migration of scientologists from the Los Angeles area and from other areas of the country to Clearwater and Flag. It was the place of promise for scientologists, the “Mecca of Technical Perfection.” If one got “on-lines” it didn’t take long to figure out that it was one of the worst places to be to receive The Tech; it wasn’t at all like the glory days when one got started at their mission and was handled with kindness and kid gloves and it wasn’t just because of the re-trains and the re-do’s of auditing levels. The training and especially the auditing became more and more oppressive, one was not treated that well and over time the E-Meter became weaponized and auditing became accusatory.

    It didn’t take much to figure out that Flag was not the place to be and it wasn’t JUST because of the disappearance of executives that used to appear at events or because it was too expensive; it was because it wasn’t any fun and if fact, it was onerous. If one became unlucky enough to jump through the hoops required and get an invitation to get onto OT VII, coupled with the injections of 6-month sec checks and the weaponization of the E-Meter, he or she’s big win of OT VII was “finishing it.” That was the BIG WIN.

    Reply

    • Mary Kahn your post summarized all that I felt after being OT VII for a long time. The win of completing it would be that you were done and never had to go back to Flag again. “…the auditing became more and more oppressive, one was not treated that well and over time the E-Meter became weaponized and auditing became accusatory.” I could not have said it better.

      Reply

          • Why am I being a “word trickster” here Karma? You are reading something into my comment that I didn’t put there. I actually do agree with the comments above. So because I post something you automatically assume the worst (from your viewpoint)?

            Reply

            • Foolproof, I don’t like injustice. I get that you agreed in your comment and are being unfairly maligned.

              That said, to a number of people here, you’re a lock on an engram by now.

              No offense, no sarcasm, I’m serious.

              That said, don’t bother me.. I find you interesting, actually. I like puzzles.

              But you have by accident or design created a great deal of antagonism with a number of people here, you know.

              Whether to amuse yourself, or get your points across, or both, or for whatever reason(s).

              You have not to date exactly been the poster boy for ARC on this blog.

              Not that you HAVE to be either!

              I’m not saying that!

              For heaven’s sake, don’t get boring 🙂

              On the other hand, if you get snapped at unjustly from time to time, don’t be surprised 🙂

              Reply

              • Aqua – I haven’t been crying about it! And I am snapped at all the time. But thanks for your concern.

              • I never thought you were, Foolproof. My defense sprang purely from a sense of your response having been misinterpreted.

                So, you’re most welcome, and btw, totally understood on your being snapped at all the time.

                I will try to do better in the future 🙂

        • FP, many of us can easily see that there is no Scientology today, in terms of results. We can also see that, with the possible exception of the lowest levels and some rote learning (that could be accomplished just as well with a good book or two) there never was anything to Scientology except Hubbard’s enlarged imagination, narcissism, and desire to exert control over others.

          It was space opera from day one, just another science fiction penny-a-word story that has lasted way too long.

          I actually hope some day you and other die-hard hubbard-bots can look at Scientology (of any era) and Hubbard’s writing and see it for what the outside world sees – a money-making scam with huge elements of his narcissism and desire for power, control, servants, and wealth.

          Even Hubbard convinced himself his imaginary sci-fi was true, so it is no surprise his most ardent flock (as in sheep to be sheared) believe likewise.

          Reply

          • You haven’t got a clue what you are talking about and are simply parroting the nonsense that other clueless idiots who have never experienced Scientology throw around the Internet.

            Reply

            • DO you think the OT VIII’s who post here with similar feelings are also clueless idiots who have never experienced scientology?

              Reply

              • Which OTVIIIs are these? Torquemada George and his “spontaneous combustion” theory? Most of the complaints from these (other) OTVIIIs will be about the administrative side of the Church – IAS, donations, heavy ethics unnecessary sec checking etc..And their complaints are a bit different from what you see above with Alamo’s nonsense that the whole subject is rubbish. So don’t try and make out that their complaints are the same as that blanket denigration written above

              • Well, Mary Kahn and Newcomer spring to mind without thinking to try to name more. They are enough to disprove your theory.

            • Foolproof, what is/was your case level in Scn on the processing side? What is/was your training level in Scn? I ask because you frequently hurl the insult that people commenting have never read a book in Scn and have “never experienced scientology.” What was your training and processing level? Just curious.

              Reply

              • Thank you for answering, Foolproof. But to quote you from some of your other comments, generalities won’t do. You say about your case level and training level, “It is high, on both sides.” That is a generality. How about specifics? OT What level? Class What auditing training level? And if you have green on white training, you can throw that in too.

                I ask because you assume often that anyone who goes against your opinion is a clueless rube who has never read a Scn book and has not trained either to the level you have, or at all in Scn. And this is simply just not the case. Newcommer on here is a Class VI auditor and OT VIII. Mary Kahn is OT VIII (sorry but I don’t know her training level). I am an interned IV, a NED auditor, Sr Sec Checker and FPRD auditor, as well as most of the BC and on OT VII for many years as well as some green on white training. So a word of advice to you, you’ll catch more flies with granting of beingness and not assuming everyone is untrained and you are the only one with any training whatsoever.

                I’ve found that when people are losing an argument they resort to ad hominem attacks such as “you’re stupid and have never read a book,” or “you’ve never had auditing.” We’ll raise the level of discourse here if we ditch the ad hom attacks. Just sayin’

              • Losing an argument? Which one is that then? Virtually every time I point out the fallacy in someone’s remarks the “argument” gets turned on its head or twisted into something else, followed by insult in my direction. So to accuse me even indirectly of ad hom is a bit rich – I am bombarded with it after nearly every comment I make.

                As to qualifications, I have known quite a few so called Class 8s who are complete squirrels. In the end it doesn’t really mean a thing, but that is straying from my original comment about Alamo’s ridiculous “Scientology is all science fiction” type comment above..Next it will be “Justice Latey says that Scientology is…” (or whatever his name was).

    • The indomitable Nathan Rich was 14 and a new member of the Sea Org, working at Flag the first few months of 1996. He describes the deplorable state of mind of the people working there:

      “It was like no matter how high in Scientology someone gets, they’re always a nobody.”

      (from Rich, Nathan. Scythe Tleppo: My Survival of a Cult, Abandonment, Addiction and Homelessness (Kindle Locations 1167-1168). Dynasty Systems. Kindle Edition.)

      A reminder – if you have Amazon Prime, they offer a 30-day free trial of Kindle Unlimited. It allows free downloads of almost all the popular books of Scientology experiences – Nathan Rich, Jesse Prince, Jon Atack, Robert Dam, Janis Grady’s Book II, and many others. A few favorites, including Jefferson Hawkins, are not available. I don’t know if this ‘free’ access hurts the author’s income, but I hope not, and if I discover it does I’d rather just send a couple of bucks direct to the author.

      Reply

      • I finally decided to buy Nathan’s book. I didn’t buy it yet because I knew it would make me cry tons because he was a kid with no control over the neglect and abuse from his mom, the cult and Wally and the Ranch etc. But finally I decided to screw up my courage and buy the book come what may, but then I find it is not in paperback or hardback at all. It is only on Kindle. Nathan, will it ever come out in a paperback that you can hold in your hand and turn the paper pages to read?

        Reply

  23. I remember Clive as a good coworker, a good decent guy, always willing to help. Yet, year after year after singing the same song of the 10,000 OT VIIs he has been unable to SEE the truth, the facts, the stats to at least consider that ´something is wrong´. This is very sad.

    On the other hand, his wife, Sherry a real Class XII she quit in an instant as soon as the GAT I came out. She simply stepped out and said she will never be part of this alteration of Tech. Not even Clive, her husband, could handle her. She persisted and refused to audit ever again using the GAT. Sherry dedicated herself to assist the elderly Sea Org members and was happy and more free to do other things.

    Another dichotomy of Scn.

    Reply

  24. Somehow I’m touched by Mr. “Rabie’s” photo. He looks kind of sad and pathetic to me. He’s drunk so much kool-aid he’s probably embalmed with it. The chances of him getting out of the cult at this point in his life are next to nil, but one can always hope.

    Reply

  25. I am one of these fortunate “go for 10.000!” who has not died yet.
    Look at my stats:
    3 sessions per day to exorcise your space cooties.50 exorcised per session 150 per day.
    About one thousand cooties per week on an OK week.
    So an OK year is half a million cooties.
    7 years on the level 3,5 million cooties.
    Cost about $350.000.
    So I only paid ten cents per cootie!
    And this is how I went exterior on all dynamics with the full perception you get being blinded by the light.
    Exteriorized from myself.Gained:40 pounds from all the sittin’ chasen’ them cooties.
    Exteriorized from my job.Got fired,always going to Flog.
    Exteriorized from my marriage.No money no honey.
    Exteriorized from my friends.Can’t play with friends if you are chasen’ them cooties.
    Exteriorized from mankind.They are all stupid wogs
    Exteriorized from nature.No time.Gotta chase more cooties
    Exteriorized from the material universe. Exteriorized from all my savings and interiorized into the Visa deadbeat list.
    Exteriorized from spirituality and art. Interiorized into the “road to freedom” and “space jazz”.

    Reply

    • Well, either you made all that up or you were assuming that such is how you audit Solo NOTs, or you were auditing Solo NOTs incorrectly.

      Reply

      • As if there is a correct way to audit Solo Nots! Thats analogous to finding a correct way to f&$# your mother. Sorry FP, If you are not OSA then you have got to be its cousin.

        Reply

        • Oh! I see! So he was deliberately and grossly exaggerating the amount of “cooties” he was blowing in a session to make some silly point! How silly of me eh?

          By the way, OSA would never get involved in things like this. It’s like me saying that you work for the World Federation of Mental Health or ABC Pharma.

          Reply

          • No Eff Pee, OSA WOULD get involved in exactly these things. If it creates dissent, anger, puts people at odds with one another, and in general creates mayhem ………it is definitively OSA.

            And BTW, OSA would know that I don’t work for the World Federation of Mental Health or ABC Pharma. Nice one! Keep on keepin on creating some dissent Effy.

            BTW, if you ever want to meet in person to discuss the merits of being in or out, let me know.

            Reply

            • So then nearly all the comments here are from OSA operatives then?

              Apart from me, and perhaps Marildi there is no one posting here anything against the flow so to speak. So who exactly are the OSA operatives on this site? I think you are seeing boogie men crawling out of the woodwork.

              Reply

        • newcomer,

          As if there is a correct way to audit Solo Nots!

          Actually there was. But the orgs did not run it that way. Per an old-timer who bailed out at that time NOTs was to be a simple repair to run before old OT4. If I remember it ran something on the order of:

          Auditor finds PreOT mass and a meter read.
          PreOT sees something there, not of their making.
          Auditor finds WHAT identity the mass is being by listing and nulling to a blowdown and FN.
          Auditor asks the discovered and awakened entity WHO for the Clear cognition, with FN and full separation.

          Like all repair actions it was supposed to take less than 2 weeks the first time, and then only as needed as the PreOT moved up the old OT levels ( straight out of Crowley).

          Reply

            • Hi Foolproof, thanks for the interest.

              Well, the point was to respond to newcomer that there WAS a correct way to run NOTs. That is assuming the verbal data I got was indeed the way David Mayo audited Ron Hubbard. It looked right to me. Then, 1980-81, preOTs who walked out of AOLA (and out of scientology) said all that was done was acking the first response from the entity as to what, and then acking the first response to who. No L&N and no depth at all. I never got NOTs so it is an assumption on my part that the above is an answer satisfactory to newcomer.

              As far as ‘things change’ goes my take is the AOs started to realize that the old OT4, OT5, OT6, and OT7 were going to take years each with the perOT off doing solo. No org income. Plus, I saw that very few wanted to drill for years. So the orgs gave preOTs quick good-feely- NOTs instead.

              That change removed scientology from ever producing the promised OT abilities IMO.

              Reply

              • Ok. Well, I have never heard of the way you mention above. It’s all done now on Solo NOTs with full L&N and ignoring the “first big read” on the what question (if it is not THE item), which is quite correct. I think those people who mentioned that got it wrong or it got twisted in the relaying of it.

                As to the old 4,5,6 and 7 taking a long time to complete never heard of that either – surely shorter than Solo NOTs anyway which is per Hubbard the equivalent of several OT levels anyway,

                As to drilling, the OT6 course is very stringent on that as there are tons of drills so again it seems that your premise on people not wanting to do drills is actually the direct opposite from what you are saying – sorry to be so negating but the facts tell a different story.

                No, of course Hubbard is quite right – one needs to finish NOTs before one can practice and maintain the OT abilities on the older levels. And it simply stands to reason. I did old OT7 but lost the abilities gained.

              • Foolproof,

                I did OT7-EPs 30 years ago. I too slowly lost the ability. I went to many sources and drilled in many ways to get to the point, in present time, where my intentions are mostly successful. It did require the removal of the ‘entity corruption’ of my universe. Quite the journey.

  26. I got OT III and above services at Flag from 1979 to 2005 but today when I drive by Flag nearly everyday going to work. The staff walking around the Sandcastle now far exceed the number of public, instead of the other way around. The public parking lot has 1/10th the cars it had!

    Miscavige has all these statistics in his head: 10 X contraction instead of a 10 X expansion during his tenure at the helm of the cult. Guess who’s quote his game plan below?

    “If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

    Joseph Goebbels

    Reply

    • Is Miscavige the cause or the custodian this shrinking cult? Both I guess. In terms of the dissemination of Scientology, there are far more people learning that Scientology is an evil cult everyday than learning that it is the only hope for the salvation of mankind.

      Reply

      • This is maybe just me, but I think Miscavige is (essentiall)y the symptom and not the disease, and that if he were replaced tomorrow there could and most likely would be someone even worse.

        Don’t think there could be anyone worse?

        I understand but we’d have to disagree.

        Behind this type of horror is almost always another horror.

        Look at all the Emperors of Ancient Rome.

        One train wreck after another, most of them.

        Again this is just me but the only hope for the continuation of Scientology would be the TOTAL elimination of ALL the toxic policies, and then changing the name, because the name itself is toxic now, made filthy by its filthy policies.

        Get RID of these filthy policies, let people live their lives. This is the poison, the cancer. No one in charge of this sick religion could turn it around as it is now. It would never work!

        Reply

        • Aquamarine… It’s not just you. I totally agree. Miscavige is a symptom not a cause. Was there any personal or social benefit to Scientology that could come close to outweighing the harm it has done since 1950? After 35 years “in” and 13 years recovering I say NO. Remove all toxic policies? If you did, (which no one can do) there would be a few basic discoveries by LRH, but most of LRH’s “work” on the spirit or soul was lifted from or inspired by other researchers which he attributed to himself and then weaponized their discoveries to get money and slaves. A pathological lyer

          If you have 20 minutes, take a listen “The Creative Will” by Helena P. Blavatsky who was (I believe) an uncredited source of many of LRH’s “discoveries”, which she and many others published before LRH was born. (copy paste link)

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C_IeZPchO5g)

          Helena Petrovna Blavatsky, (July 31, 1831 – May 8, 1891) and Aleister Crowley (October 12, 1875 – December 1, 1947) – timelines are overlapping. These characters were a heavy influence on LRH March 13, 1911 – January 24, 1986. when he was in his late teens and 20’s.

          I am sure you know Akister C., but Helena Petrovna Blavatsky was a Russian occultist, spirit medium, and author who co-founded the Theosophical Society in 1875. She gained an international following as the leading theoretician of Theosophy, the esoteric movement that the society promoted.

          Animated video above was brought to you by Rev. Lux Newman
          & the Church of Spiritual Science.
          Sponsored by the Phineas Parkhurst Quimby
          Philosophical Society
          Voice of Rev. Lux Newman

          BTW Aquamarine, who/where are you? Just curious. But, it’s quite OK to remain anonymous.

          Reply

    • Scientology’s quack pseudo-therapy and quack exorcism with the Scientologists fooling themselves they are “OT” supernaturally improved and powerful, wow, what could go wrong/right?

      Pretend “OT”. Pay a lot, fool yourself a lot, and pretend to be “OT.”

      Extensive quackery fools them all.

      Reply

    • Immigration usually will let religious workers travel into the US. I suspect this is how they are getting their current staff to non-imploding levels. For a foreigner, a free ticket to the US. For Scientology, a hedge against waning public interest in a dwindling and controversial group.

      Reply

  27. Perhaps off the subject. However, in the mail I received a magazine from the cult called “Ability.” I am sure you are all familiar with the publication. The thing is: I went to see what the cult was all about in about 1980, and did not join. However, they have kept my “file” all these years, and still sending out their dribble. LOL.

    Reply

        • That is the funny thing. I got some magazines for a while, and letters asking what I was doing (like they really cared) back in the 80s and 90s. Nothing much after that. Then out of the blue comes this ability magazine with a couple of additions. One is an invite to take the Personality test, the other is a self folding card with their address on the back for signing up for courses. Such courses as Marriage,Children, Goals and Purposses, Ethics and Survival, and Survival and Prosperity. There are 20 different courses to take if you took all of them. Oh, you have to provide the stamp to send back their card. LOL.

          Reply

    • Lance, if I may ask what were your thoughts then? Was there anything in particular you liked, or anything that you immediately disliked? I’m just curious.. ☺

      Reply

      • Hello Ann.

        To answer your question of what I thought of the cult when I visited the Portland org in the mid 80’s.

        I really did not get that far into their rooms before some guy was screaming at the top of his voice at some lady over and over the same thing. He was standing over her like a pit bull (no offence to the doggies) and she for her part has her head down like she was totally beaten down. I asked the guy who was interviewing me what was he yelling at that poor lady for, and I was told not to worry about it. I believe that Leah got the same answer when she asked where Shelly was. I told this clown that was no way to treat a lady or anyone else and made a move to choke the living daylights out of the screaming a-hole. I was stopped and told that they did not think that I would quite fit in with Scientology and so I left.

        My question now is am I a “almost SP” and if so, is there any way that I can get a official certificate to proudly hang on my wall.

        Other news of the day:

        They are having a “Body, Mind, Spirit” expo at the Oregon Convention Center here in Portland. on September 29-30. I have seen the cults set-up in the past, and I am sure they will be showing up this year also. I plan on making copies of the phone number of anyone who wants help getting out of the cult and take it with me to the convention. It takes not only you who were in to help those who are still in to get out, but the general public who was never in to help out also.

        I saw on Mike’s Funnies a bit back that there was going to be a huge meeting at the Portland Org. I drove down town and did a nose count. I saw about 30 people off the street go into the building. The staff was hawking their personality test to anyone who would take the invite. I walked in front of the org and of course I got the “Take a free personality test inside.” I asked why did I need to take a test if I did not know who I was now. Also, why are you standing on the sidewalk like a street person trying to get people to come inside if this was the fastest growing religion in the World. No answer. LOL.

        Everyone have a great day, and looking forward to “Aftermath” when it comes on.

        Reply

    • Lance,
      It’s a real status symbol to know you are counted as one of the millions of $cientologists on the planet.

      Yo Dave,
      Jessies new book ‘Expert Witness’ lays out more of yer disturbing secrets good buddy. I thought You had everything under control? What now Dave? Put Your new go-to guy Eff Pee on it!

      Reply

      • Just when we thought we knew all there was to know about dave and his take-over and take-down, Jesse’s book taught us a few more things, huh, Cooper? Dang!

        Reply

        • Just Appendix A alone is riveting reading. Well, yeah, the whole book is dynamite. But for someone who has no idea about scientology, if all they were to read is Appendix A, they would be up in arms immediately.

          Reply

        • Precisely Mary! In true Scientology form, the more you learn about $cientology’s truth the worse it gets. How bad will it be for those keeping themselves in is anyone’s guess.

          My daughter is in the worst possible position having been the Deputy CO, CMO-IXU. No idea of her fate after I was declared but I’m pretty sure she got the Introspection Rundown (same rundown that Lisa McPherson received) and it brought out some strange behavior. Other still-in ex family have moved to Utah to get away from LA. Their ‘shore story’ is to protect their young kids from forced vaccinations for school. The cherch can’t really oppose due to the belief systems so that may help their kids although the Salt Lake Org has them in the cross hairs for event call in.

          My Son is still-in and married into a whale family but not on staff. Hopefully he can be there for his Sister as she has few options being in the SO. She did get married to a Russian fellow a couple years ago. No idea what her married name is or whether she is still in the US.

          What a strange Cult!

          Reply

          • We just never know, do we, what will wake our kids. I believe wholeheartedly that it ain’t so much scientology tech so much any more but the family, friends, spouses that they latch onto that give them agreement, etc. As much as I miss my son and I know you miss your two children, I am so happy to be out of this suppressive “religion.” I, and I know you too, are doing better than ever. Flourishing and prospering. 🙂

            Reply

            • Mary,

              Confirmational bias is hard to overcome. Once they have agreed to ‘whatever’, it takes a lot to get them to break out of that agreement.

              Reply

      • So true, Coop! I’m reading Jesse Prince’s book and have learned the truth of things the church has kept hidden for years. It’s shocking. I was sickened to hear that Davey acted like a two bit thug when he gathered 17 burly men to go in full naval uniform to Mary Sue Hubbard’s house to demand she sign off on her rights to any and all of her inheritance and trademarks and book royalties left her by LRH and by right of marriage in a community property state. Jesse says that Davey told him he needed him to come along with all the others as a “show of force.” Mary Sue had to be 80 at that time; she looked frail and sick, and here was David MIscavige yelling full force in her face to sign the papers. He told her they would not leave (all 17 of these uniformed men), until she signed. They leaned on her for over 3 hours. At first she refused and said she never trusted David Miscavige and knew he was just money and power hungry and she wouldn’t sign. But they never left her alone and wouldn’t leave and continued yelling at her. In the end she signed. She never had her own legal counsel there, but Davey had Earl Cooley there on his side. She had no idea the estate was worth between $200 Million and $400 Million. What kind of bully and coward has to have 27 fellow thugs come with him to confront an old and frail woman? David Miscavige, that’s who. And don’t even get me started on the Flo Barnett story. I don’t even think the mob would harrass an old, sick woman the way Davey and crew did. The mob has their own moral code and it doesn’t include bullying women.

        Reply

          • I’m not an attorney, but I assume anything can be challenged. But keep in mind that Mary Sue is dead (RIP), so it would have to be her heirs that would challenge it. The person in charge of the Will and estate at death is now in the gulag per Mike’s article.

            Reply

    • A couple of us worked up estimates once, and we came up with about $170 as the likely cost of mailings per year, if you’re getting the full volume of several per week. Multiply that by the nearly 4 decades since you had contact with them, and it starts to add up to real money – probably multiplied again by between a hundred thousand and a quarter million people who get such unwanted mailings (some of them unfortunates who live at the former addresses of untraceable or deceased people). But then Scientology can’t even afford toilet paper for the orgs….

      Reply

      • I used to get tons of mail. Now I get zippo. Even getting declared didn’t turn it off. Using their self addressed, postage paid envelopes with little time bombs inside for staff reading did the trick.

        I used to keep printed copies of Debbie Cook’s 2012 e-mail on hand and pop one into each envelope and launch! The results must have been devastating because all of the cult mailings stopped faster that a blink!

        Reply

          • Thanks miss Q. The actual scene is that they followed the orders of Julian Schwartz (who told them that they needed to make up their own mind about disconnecting) although failing to do so would result in the loss of their eternity and freedom and no doubt total destruction by the cherch!

            Thus far, I have not disconnected from them and I don’t have any plans to do so! I have created a family trust and I have explicitly excluded them from any of the fruits of my human labor if I have not heard from them by the time of death. And if I do hear from them, I would want to know they have left the cult because there will not be one red cent that I own going to the cherch; ever, period, regardless.

            Yo Dave,
            If you are concocting another one of your twisted pranks to get the kids in touch with me to float a small loan for one of yer scam front groups ………….stick it! Besides, I know you are not quite that desperate ……….yet.

            Reply

            • @ Newcomer:
              Smart handling. Really smart. And no doubt quite difficult with your love for them urging, practically compelling you to give them anything, offer them anything, everything, to get them back. Which won’t work. But this, in their current states of cult robotry,this will communicate as nothing else will. Love, Schmuv. RESPECT is what they must be taught, these “kids”. Without respect, love is worthless. And they WILL respect you for this, in their heart of hearts, for having the guts to put your money where your mouth is. For not being a marshmallow. Too bad it has to be taught to them this way but then, the cult does drain all the tenderness and compassion out of a person replacing these finer sensibilities with a simple, primordial, zero sum, kill or be killed mindset. Per their training, MONEY is what these cult bots understand. .

              Reply

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