Our old friend Ken Kramer has gotten himself into the fundraising business.
It seems to have become part of the ethnicity of being a scientologist.
You can bet that he is making his living doing this. He found a little niche and is making a pitch for people to give him money to “destroy the psychs” — he is a mini-IAS!
And what better subject to get scientologists going than psychiatry. They are the ultimate boogeymen — sent here from the planet Farsec to torture and maim the people of earth. The whole track implanters. The SPs that by nature of their diploma all want to do terrible things to every man, woman and child on earth. They are just itching to get another Holocaust going.
Who wouldn’t give a few dollars to stop that?
But come to think of it, how come the IAS cannot dish out a few shekels to get the records that are needed. Hell, at least $67.53 falls into the cracks of the sofa in the IAS reg office every day. Let alone their collection of gold fillings, jewelry and stock certificates. They could just keep the cash and designate everything else to Ken Kramer and CCHR and there would be no need for him to be begging…
From: records@PsychSearch.net
To: bobduggan@earthlink.com
Subject: Ready? Time for Expansion on Psychiatrist Records!
Date: Sat, 10 Oct 2015
Now, we’ve decided to provide records on psychiatrists in English speaking countries – Australia, England, New Zealand, Ireland, Scotland, South Africa and Wales!
The records do cost money. And, we continue to update the USA. Can you pay for these?
CA public record $45.19
FL public record $67.53
Pay here: www.paypal.com
(If you don’t have PayPal you can also use our credit card at that link!)
If you can swing CA and FL we will ask others to pay for other states and (other countries!). And ask still others to pay for the special photographic equipment needed for quality images to expose a psychiatric rotten hotspot with international implications!
PsychSearch.net identified every psychiatrist in the USA and then launched a research project that continues to this day. The project involves continuous contact with each state to obtain records of “psychiatrists in hot water“.
This has now developed into the largest collection of public records on USA psychiatrists in existence.
Over the years, we’ve often heard from folks outside the USA: “Are you going to do this in our country?”
“No plans at this time” was always our answer.
But recently, a generous Canadian suggested that PsychSearch expand its horizons to the Great White North! So, we decided – why not! And let’s not stop there!
Hover your mouse over “USA Psychiatrists” here: www.psychsearch.net/
That is where you will soon see records appearing from other English speaking countries – Australia, England,
New Zealand, Ireland, Scotland, South Africa and Wales:
Note 1: Public Records laws vary from country to country. So, we will soon see, what is public and what is not.
Note 2: Our focus is on psychiatrists. Not psychologists, mental health counselors, social workers nor marriage & family therapists.
A byproduct of the PsychSearch.net compilation of records research project is the daily “Psych in Hot Water” news!
Go here: www.facebook.com/groups/PsychSearch
Join your friends at the Facebook Group – Psychs!
Now over 9,100 members!
Best Regards,
Kenneth Kramer
Researcher – PsychSearch.net
Licensed Private Investigator
DataSearch, Inc.
FL PI License # C-1400565
“There’s One Way to Find Out!”
Call 888-Find-Out
Hmm. Hubbard could not recognize he was schizo (and etc.) and he blamed psychiatry for (a) not helping him and (b) not validating his “incredible” cracking of the mysteries of the mind and universe.
So instead of Hubbard being nuts, a whole field of medicine and social science is nuts. In a way, that was an easy leap, since the human history of dealing with the mind and mental illness is replete with some horrible stunts such as widespread lobotomies.
But let me understand this. Were the Nazis just nice people who were manipulated by “psychs”? How about the Rwandan genocide? (https://books.google.com/books?id=HFXiRMYA3QkC&pg=PA187&lpg=PA187&dq=psychiatry+in+rwanda&source=bl&ots=P6IY4lLfPo&sig=BPMbjzy7qCH8UmdE0VmwC47tgAU&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAmoVChMIq4jv5fvOyAIVA_NjCh3aTwkJ#v=onepage&q=psychiatry%20in%20rwanda&f=false).
Even recently, there are only three psychiatrists in all of Rwanda. Or the Campodian / Kampuchean genocide under Pol Pot / Khmer Rouge? One of the prime targets of Pol Pot was the educated — anyone who had a college education was executed if they were found. How did the “psychs” manage to coordinate that genocide when those with any education, such as psychiatrists, were themselves among the first to be exterminated? (http://www.ppu.org.uk/genocide/g_cambodia1.html).
Or how does the “psychs did it” theory account for the Armenian genocide ~1915 committed by Turks? (http://www.armenian-genocide.org/genocide.html.) Did the “psychs” do that one too? Or is it more likely that a Muslim caliphate wanted to exterminate a Christian minority and seize their property? (Kind of what is happening even today in the Levant.)
Despite being a melange of occasional tasty and appealing morsels mainly plagiarized from others, any critical examination shows Scientology to be a totalitarian pseudo-science quite willing to lie and commit crimes while posing as a religion to shield itself from inquiry or any requirement to provide proof of its claims. Its faulty analysis of genocides should be added to the list of its irrational, self-serving, bizarre claims.
Public records are free.
“Scientology likes to think they think outside of the box when in fact they are the box. ”
– I Yawnalot
Things like this are the reason why behind other people’s feelings that there is something wrong with the Church of Scientology. By definition an SP is an SP and doesn’t do ANYTHING unless empowered to. This also applies to expelled people. A declared SP’s only line into the church is the IEJC (International Ethics & Jutstice Chief Flag Land Base) via a CLO. So, WHY would people be standing (for example) on Marty Rathbun’s front porch stairs in Dr. Mengel’s lookalike uniforms? 🙂 There is so much obviously wrong with the Church of Scientology for right now and for a good 100 to 125 years into the future that it is like stepping into oblivion trying to communicate all their bad points because they do not yet have any really good points that one can prove one can focus on. 🙂 Each time new news surfaces about the church “OT VII in Colorado Shootsl Co-Worker in the Head”, “New York OT V Mother Stabbed to Death by Schizophrenic Son”, “OT VIII Jumps 200 Feet Off Bridge to His Death”. These are not made up stories. They are church “headlines”. Spearheading campaigns geared toward a Clear and OT planet. Someone else needs to take the riegns and steer Earth to safety. 🙂
I yawn is the voice of wisdom and reason. 😉
This Kramer loon sounds like a violently insane idiot. I hope that the authorities are watching him and have their mental health experts evaluating whether he constitutes a danger to his neighbors.
Agreed — and he is no relation to Cosmo Kramer.
Getting a posting to the CCHR or any of the ‘social betterment’ groups used to be a plum assignment that was handed out to truly loyal minions who sent the extra ‘uplines’ to the COP scotch fund. This guy is just scamming the scammers. He will be hunted down and made to at least send the required vigorish to the boss.
I wonder how much he’ll have left when the goon squad leaves? And if his kneecaps are still attached properly?
“… the psychs (who have been on the track a long time and are the sole cause of decline in this universe)…” LRH
Yessiree Ron, what a relief to know.
And there are people who wonder why the current “Church” leadership is obsessed with psych’s?
DERP!
Hey all…. I understand this my come across as suspect. I’m not really sure how to say this, so here goes. I grew up in what the mother church would call a squirrel group, and not a good one. Too make a very, very long story short, I joined this Military as soon as I could to escape my parents church. I been silently following this site for years, and its helped a lot. Now I need more help. I am positively I am impressionist my children with my past e’s. I don’t want them to grow up with my parents but I hear the church come out of my mouth almost every time they dont ttl…. I don’t want my kids to be me. I need to break this chain. I need help but I CAN NOT go to a psych, their my boogyman, always will be…ead..
You are aware that everything scientology and CCHR says about psychiatry is either false or out of date right? It makes me sad and very, very angry that they have made you fear the exact people that are best equipped to help you. Are there bad pyschs? Of course, the same way there are bad drivers, dentists, pilots, etc. Is the whole profession filled with murderous people that want to brainwash you and take your cash? No. They really just want to help. Esp if you do some research and talk to other people in your area you can find a Dr and/or therapist that works with other methods before they prescribe anything. Not all of them just hand out drugs either…that is lie # 1 you have been told. I hope some of the ex’s that were in your spot will step forward and share their experiences about getting over and dealing with this as they are in a much better position than I am. I wish you the best and hope somebody steps up to help you.
Hi Frodis73, Good to meet you. Thank you for your reasoned and sensitive post.I thought your advice was well presented.I had a terrible time with a shrink deprogrammer who doled out “forget the Sea Org drugs like candy.”Dumped that one when I knew he was in it for $ and knew nothing about Sea Org etc.Many years ago.As I have posted in the past,I am still working out and through stuff.Who knows what Jake really wants to find out,all I can say is in my experience,love laughter stubbornness willingness to be wrong about something when I was and just the Joy of being out and Free goes along way toward help in these matters.All on this blog keep me going even on days when I want to fold up my tent and wander off into the wilderness! But because of y’all I won’t do that yet.Always,Ann.
Thank you for the nice reply Ann. I also am suspect about this person and what they wrote, but I wanted to offer the info just in case. Also, we both know there are a lot more people out here that only read and do not post. I’m also sure more than a few people reading could benefit from the help of a therapist, psychologist and/or psychiatrist. Yet they are terrified and struggle alone because of the lies they have been told by the church.
I’m a “never-in” that rarely posts, but I do read Mike everyday. The whole anti-psychiatry thing is just one of *many* issues that are hot buttons with me regarding the Co$. So, in case he was legit and was trying to reach out, I wanted to try and get him to look beyond the CCHR type propaganda, but in a nice way. I truly believe most exes (esp SO and staff) are dealing with PTSD at a minimum. I wish nothing but the best for exes and want them out and healthy ASAP!
It’s like condemning the entire legal profession because of Ken Moxon (and numerous others like him doing evil things for the cult), or “real” churches because of scientology, all actors because of dimwits like Jenna and Bodhi, or all drug companies because of Duggan. But wait, they already do that with drug companies. Except for when it comes to taking drug money…
I would contact Chris Shelton, his blog.
And sounds like you do need a good family attorney. Let me ask you this, are therapists boogies too?
Why would you follow this blog for years, SILENTLY?
-I just realized you are a lost cause.
Hi mark marko, How are you this cool( finally) sunshine day here? You told me about Chris Selton,went to his blog.Most interesting.Maybe Jake will take a look.You know your therapists are ok with me,just the crazy shrinks who think no-one else has the answers but that group,get me riled up! But never when you are around.Calmness light goodness love follow you. Always,Ann.
I’m fine. Computer crashed but I got this phone till new hardrive arrives.
U’re quite right, my therapist was cool (until she left the clinic, but good news – my brain receptors are chilling nowadays )
One generally doesn’t condemn “psychs” unless one is deeply coma-dizzy or a scn-gist, another tip-off promulgated unwittingly by fake jake. Dim bulb. (Sorry guy, just get help)
Anyway, there are a couple things I tend to like about therapy, in general:
A. It tends to work
Advances in the field have indeed been tremendous, especially in the last decade, never mind the last half-century, and
B. Compared to scn-gy standard rates it is relatively free. Can u imagine a therapist asking you to give up, say, $300,000 for the top shelf therapy, plus work free for a billion years if u don’t mind.
The dude did disappear, correct? Ok, sector restored, 1st Leut. Galactic Patrol agent mm out.
Hi mark marko, I thought I would let The Galactic Patrol Agent know I got four hang up calls this am from a Inspector Davis! Haha,probably from the Dark Side,needs you to take care of him! XO,Ann.
Hi mark marko, Oh-oh! 1st Leut.,Sir.Another sector needs restoring.Stardust,Ann.
You are correct. Suspect.
Good for you, Jeanie.
Mike, can we edit this string so that jake is directly responded to?
The lesson in the message is worthwhile and the four words from the genie would have impact even more like King Kong.
Hi Jake,Thank you for your post.Please let me know if I followed you correctly.You are worried that when you talk to your kids,you are sounding like your parents did when you were young? I did the shrink deprogramming thing years ago because my late Dad made me after Sea Org,and that was a total bust! So I am with you on that score.I am thankful that you have been reading here too,as it has helped me so much to do that also.Does it make sense that you are trying to reach another level of communication without losing it yourself? Take Care,there are many here who do want to help if we can.Ann.
Jakes a fake, Ann, must have thought he was talking to a bunch of dummies and good for your call, btw, he makes plausibility look like a slotted spoon.
Jake-
Here’s your get-out-of-jail card, free pass. Go directly to Chris Shelton – Critical Thinker At Large, until then run for your life and your mind will follow, whether the bubble bursts or your intention becomes pin-pointed & razor-sharp enough to allow the particle of light known as You to escape, the only to options the Universe holds left for your salvation, seems to me.
My tone may sound critical or harsh but don’t be fooled. Glad you came by, it brought my good old self back again, even after pondering the toxic and unsavory tactics employed by CoScn. BTW, whose payroll are/were you on? The U.S. Marines, huh? No man left behind,
?
save the children, man, save them all.
Love all and especially Ann
Hi mark marco, Jake is a Fake! Where are my smelling salts?and that cane? Laughter,Love back and beyond Mark! Ann.
🙂
Love all especially Ann, and you mark!
Hi Observinginsandiego, It is wonderful to see your post.Thank you for the love,I need all I can get! Kisses to all your four- footed family! Look forward to your posts!XO Ann.
Jake, Just because you talk funny Sci-talk, you’re not going to damage your children. Calm down. Teach your kids the golden rule, explicitly and by example, and they’ll be fine. Do you need a psych’s help for some reason? If so, just bite the bullet and do it. If not, again, calm down.
Hi hgc10, You are so amazing! Great post.Always,Ann.
You guys are (apparently all) compassionate beings. After all the [___] you’ve been through, still? Wow. That is real survival. Pleasure to be in such company.
That goes to all, really maybe even fake jake, if he can tell me straight up he does what he does because he somehow believes. I don’t think that’s the case and I’d call him jake the snake except, obviously, he is only hurting himself. ( truth is I think mike was trying to float past a Red Herring )
When “in”, it had been a long-standing puzzlement of mine how such a broad, generalized statement as “The Psychs” could be named in the context of WHO was responsible for something. Even if one were to say “Psychs (or Scientology) did blah-blah”, there’s still an actual “who” missing from the equation; an actual individual; such as the diminutive dictator or one of his loyal, deluded minions.
Sure, there are some very evil, bad-ass psychiatrists and they are often employed by even more evil people with ultra-evil intentions etc. I grant you that. But I would hazard to guess that the great majority of psychs are simply ignorant-of-how-the -planet-runs people who do actually wanted to help, not much different from those who become Scn’gists. I mean, how could a psych be anything else when he’s trained and indoctrinated that man is no more than a bag of meat & chemicals?
So I would largely agree that as an organization and as a philosophy, “the psychs” are in fact suppressive to humanity; they do destructively brainwash society through all manner of means and methods just as nasty as those employed by CO$. People in this situation are essentially assistants to evil.
But as far as I’m concerned the real crux of the situation is that although the above is true, the CO$, aka David Miscavige, totally fails to shed any light whatsoever on the real, major psychotic SOB SPs who own, promote and employ “the psychs” as just one aspect of their arsenal.
I’m talking about such creatures as Rothschild banking family, Henry Kissinger, George Soros, the Rockefellers, the Bush family, Dick Cheny, the various Royal Families etc. etc. There are relatively few, percentage-wise; maybe 1%. But I’m talking about the individuals who buy and sell counties on their Monopoly board called Earth. The people that orchestrate wars as a matter of routine. People who have been pushing humanity further and further into total slavery with a one world government agenda or so-called “New World Order”. There’s a lot to it but if one wanted to quickly and initially sum things up one could say “The Bankers”. Specifically the International Bankers. (And speaking of bankers, who do you suppose created and operates the IRS as their enforcement arm? Clue: it’s not Federal Express.)
I’m talking here about the cretins that keep psychs employed and who fund and essentially own the universities that train them etc. These are the real WHOs of planetary suppression. This is the real Mother Ship.
So where does Miscavige stand on addressing THESE planetary suppressors? Many Scientologists have been aware of this for decades and that’s only increasing with the www. What is the IAS doing to handle/eradicate the true mother of SPs? The answer, of course, is nothing. Zip. Squat. Nada. Ziltch. Instead, Miscavige allies the CO$ with the IRS, (which of course HELPS the true enemies of mankind) and now offers up lists of psychiatrists so as to exposes the ones who get caught diddling their drug-addled patients.
Really? This will handle and eradicate mankind’s greatest threat and imminent demise?
I’m so glad now to be able to articulate my thoughts on this and stand back from the absolute sham the whole “DM & IAS eradicating suppression” thing is and has been all along.
This is true.
High School dropout, Davis Miscavige, probably doesn’t even know what the Holocaust is. If he really did, then maybe his religion would be more tolerant, more inclusive, more diverse, and less demanding of blind obedience, less a system of turning in people, less judgemental.
Ryan, LRH CERTAINLY knew all about the Holocaust and he didn’t create scn to be “more tolerant, more inclusive, more diverse, and less demanding of blind obedience, less a system of turning in people, less judgemental.”
Why do you think that DM would change it because of that knowledge?
John u drive me bonkers sum times. Thanks for the pointed, shit, lost it. My fault, shirley, Rye, thx, at least I get somebodies don’t-misunderstand-me-this-is-WAY-bigger-than-my-ego big fat point – other side of coin, it’s a pleasure my good sir. Keeppin it up. – mm
is he really asking Bob Duggan, who according to Mike and Tony regularly donates MILLIONS of dollars at a time, if he can pay $112.72 for psychiatry records? seriously? if I were Bob Duggan, I would be like “Fuck you, take it out of the 5 million I donated to the IAS last week.”
I just cannot believe the balls on these guys…one of the most wealthy people in the world and he’s all “if you can swing CA & FL…” unbelievable.
Not really addressed to Bob Duggan… I inserted that address to protect the identity of the person who sent it to me (not Bob Duggan)…
duh, I suppose I should have thought of that! ? it’s probably not outside the realm of possibility that they ARE hitting up the whales for this endeavor, right?
Since many Jews were/are psychiatrists, does that mean they engineered the Holocaust?
I thought this sentence was particularly insane:
“And ask still others to pay for the special photographic equipment needed for quality images to expose a psychiatric rotten hotspot with international implications!”
Special photographic equipment??? This goes way off the deep end.
Maybe he’s talking about those cameras the “psych busters” wear on their heads.
I thought Blubbard and McSlappy were here on earth to torture and maim people? Who knew it was the evil ones from the planet Farsec? Shows Ya, that we all have something new to learn everyday
Maybe they need special “OT” level equip. X-Ray cameras? LOL
Hi John Locke, You gave me a laugh,thank you. Yes special low level X-Rays to go with their X-Ray eyes,hearing and no brains!Always,Ann.
Well, they get half a point for creativity. Their scam knows no bounds, disgusting as it is their search for ways of begging/coercing for money is remarkable.
I do think there should be a reverse flow on this type of thing. Say, a Scio-search.
Let’s say since 2005, just to give an even decade’s grace and have a site that names every scientologist and their donation rate/amount to Idle Orgs, the IAS, CCHR etc. Call it something like a scammers shame blame retro list.
See how long the individuals flow of money holds up to open public scrutiny. I’m pretty sure a few media people like A Current Affair and others could give it a little airing every now and again when a new story of corruption concerning the church comes to light.
Sunlight is a great cleanser. And to get off the list you just have to register your name to Steve Hall’s Indy 500 list.
Aw well… ‘yawn,’ time to wake up now.
I think this is a great idea I yawn, we can also do family updates (disconnections) along with the money spent. Would be very interesting.
OSD TWO-
A particle of unspoken praise went by just earlier, just a very cool thing – didn’t want it to go by unnoticed so if I may say now,
Praise.
?
One has to wonder why Miscavige has so much invested in attributing the cause of the Holocaust to others than the Germans , Nazi’s and S.S..
He has spent a Royal fortune to place the incident in the laps of “mental health professionals”, and away from commanders and soldiers and domestic terrorists.
He has spent a fortune giving people wrong items and wrong indications about the ravages of war and soldiers. About ethnic cleansing goals.
That’s Dave for you. Predicable as the tide too.
His epitaph will probably read something like, “I still don’t believe they bought that stuff, I couldn’t stop.”
Hey if it works, why change it?
After I blew the Sea Org in New York, I paid off my debt and moved to California. This was 1976. Heber was my terminal to do my A through E or J or whatever.
Heber told me that the psyches created the Holocaust. My blow against the enemy was to go door to door for days and days in LA and get people to sign a petition for something or other.
Heber gave me a picture of Paul Dickoff in his Nazi uniform and told me to show this picture to people and they will sign this petition. It also had something to do with Interpol as well as the psyches.
So David Miscavige is much later on the chain. Ron started this insane delusional rant about a Scientology holy war against the psyches.
MIscavige is merely a hypnotized psycho robot who was overwhelmed and psychologically imprinted by Hubbard’s dazzle and paranoid razzmatazz.
Hi Brian, Go like flame with your great post! I’m trailing in your wake! Love U 2. Ann.
Hi Ann! ? Hope all is well 🙂
Hi Brian, Thank you from my heart! You both have such loving and kind thoughts.I had a little set back,but hey,the ebb and flow of this dimension! All prayers,thoughts,whatevers that help the light to continue breaking through me and all still in,that is pure Sunshine! Love Always,Ann.
Joseph Smith had some out of the box theories too. But present day Mormons seem to be accountable for their actions. Maybe it will take 180 years for Scientologists to live with ideas on their own terms also.
I think in 180 years offical Scientology will be firmly into the ‘we live in bunkers and have completely lost our minds’ phase at the rate they are going. From what I’ve come to understand I think even if dm dies someone will be appointed that runs things just like he did. And on and on it goes.
And for people that have never read, there is always their mother and father to hang it on……….
You have caused me to wonder how many folks watching Mitt Romney run for president , sat watching him talk and thought, “That’s Joseph Smith talking.”
I agree Oracle, we hypnotized human beings are constantly rolling the psychological reels of our own biases onto the neutral screen of our circumstance.
My teacher’s teacher, Sri Yukteswar, has a great statement regarding this:
“We are hypnotized by our surroundings, and can’t see anything beyond the horizon of our experience.”
I would also surmise, because he is a liberated master, that this is the delusional state of humanity but there are methods and procedures to de-hypnotize ourselves as well.
That is, when we mean serious business with the task of liberation.
Well said Brian. According to LRH, the main reason scientology had to be developed was to undo the dwindling spiral caused by psyches. Thus, all people who are really scientologists (obviously the head of Scn more so than anyone else) HAVE to be obsessed about getting rid of psychs.
What a psyhco nightmare we had to endure John!
When people are WTF regarding Scientology and strange behavior, all that needs to be revealed, to clarify the dizzying craziness, is to find the correlated writing by Ron.
All Scientology strange behavior unquestionably finds its source in some of Ron’s written word hypnotically cemented in the brain with word clearing.
Oracle asked, “One has to wonder why Miscavige has so much invested in attributing the cause of the Holocaust to others than the Germans , Nazi’s and S.S.. ”
Because it is what LRH said was true. Ya know, “Standard” LRH tech, policy, etc.
I suggest you read ALL of LRH’s material on the subject.
No mention of the Japs and what they did in the Pacific in all this while the holocaust was raging in Europe. They had death camps and indulged in mass murder of civilians too. I think they killed more allied prisoners of war with starvation and overwork than they ever did with bullets.
What, couldn’t the psychs speak Japanese?
LMAO I Yawn. Excellent point.
And I could discount all of your actions continuously by simply responding, “That’s the Sea Org member in you talking”. Or Brian’s thoughts by responding, “That’s the M.A.A. in you talking”.
That has GOT to be the most non sequitur response I’ve ever seen Oracle.
That’s the Scientologist in you speaking.
I suggest the whole pile be thrown into a Burning Man bonfire – hopefully before one more word is read by anyone. Bunch of toxic waste.
The psychs were behind the Holocaust and Russian communists funded the KKK.
And I am a founding member of C.C.R.A.. Citizen’s Commission for Religious Accountability. We are currently accruing records and testimony of people that use the banner of “religion” to commit crimes in our society and bring them to justice.
The real scientology credo: Will scam for cash
Can you all pay ‘me’ for an independent audit of $camology?
Feel free to send me ‘ALL’ your credit and banking details and I’ll take it from there.
Just make sure you have unlimited funds in your bank account in case I need to buy any additional electrical appliances. (heeheehee evil cackle….) Well if it works that way for $camology, it should also work for me.
So just hand over your bloody money or I’ll send OSA after you.
Hi Barbara Angel,I loved your post.”Additional electrical appliances”had me laughing.If you have seen some of my posts electricity and Miss Ann a potent mix! Always,Ann.
What’s that you need? Unlimited flunks? Oh man, Have I got a story for you! You see…wait…what? FUNDS. Never mind….
Reading through the gripes that Kramer has with psychiatrists is remarkable. What a gallery of miscreants!
There are those who engaged in practices not recognized by the canon of proper psychiatric treatments. Those who were addressing their patients’ sexual orientation issues in ways deemed inappropriate by their profession and/or the law of the land. Those who did not maintain proper credentials. The occasional patient death. Those discovered of bilking the tax payer. Those monkeying with the IRS. And finally those who took advantage of their status in their patients’ lives to commit adultery and/or gain sexual favors. Finally, Kramer makes it a point to throw in the term “quackery,” complete with a link to the term’s Wikipedia definition.
What makes this list indeed remarkable is that it does not contain a single allegation that has not been made numerous times against various “church” organizations, and regularly against Narconon. And as to the abuse of one’s position to engage in adultery and flings with those trusting the “therapist,” Ron himself established a remarkable track record of his own in this respect.
In other words, one could take this data collection, substitute the names of the “doers” and receive a remarkably accurate data collection of the infractions committed by the “church,” its founder and its front organizations.
Unlike the “church” and its founder, psychiatrists operate within the confines of accountability to their professional organizations, licensing bodies and various government agencies. Disgruntled consumers can discontinue treatment without being “investigated,” “sec checked” and harassed. They can seek other forms of treatment without becoming “squirrels.” And they can share their experience on yelp and the likes without being called “bigots” who need to be watched by private investigators. Nor do psychiatrists order “disconnection” from their former patients.
Of course, abuses should be investigated and sanctioned. Then again, the same ought to be done to those cloaking their abuses by terms such as “religion,” “church,” “scriptures” and “ecclesiastical leader.”
<<<<<<<Is that really a new thing? Scamatology founder attacks medicine since may 50, attacks psychology since 1948, and L. Ron was already pretending to have attack "bad guys" in small shool years!
Perhaps he needed recognition… as a great warrior against -what HE thought – were bad people!
Doesn’t Ken also do overt data collection on SPs and enemies on OSA request?
Category:Ken Kramer
I’ll pay for South Dakota, South Carolina and New South Wales. The psychs be in real hot water in those southern climes
And South Detroit.
This ‘heory of “men behind Hitler”, came from the fact that Hitler was in an hospital after the war 14/18. He was supposed to have been healed by hypnotism under the care of psychs… Scientologist would say he was implanted, why not?
But the second source is that the idiot who wrote the book “men behind Hitler” noticed that principal nazis were “doctor”. Like Dr Goebbels, and many other especially amongst SD officers (responsable for killing jews in Poland with the Einstazgruppen). So this writer connected the dots : Yes, of course, those are all doctors (in medicine!) and doctors is… psychiatrists… Oh my Mein Gott! Hubbard was right. Psychs are the only evil! They even created the Holocaust! (never he had a thought for jews who are psychiatrists!)
In Germany anyone who has a grade in university is a doctor!
So Goebbels didn’t practice medicine but he was a “philosopher”.
To say that psychatrists created the holocaust is hignly ridiculous, even if they had certainly psychiatrist amongst them.
But if you read “history of psychiatry” they actually performed some horrors, but not the holocaust.
Maybe not that ridiculous. One could argue that the Holocaust might never have occurred if psychiatrists weren’t already murdering the mentally ill in their purpose-built death camps. Perhaps not a direct cause, no. But their role in the events leading up to it is as clear as day.
“psychiatrists weren’t already murdering the mentally ill in their purpose-built death camps”
– [citation needed]
Aktion T4. GIYF.
One could argue the Catholic Church with its Inquisitions were responsible for the Holocaust if they wished, or Stalin’s Purge Trials. I prefer to blame those who ordered it and carried it out. In 1947 Ron Hubbard wrote a letter pleading for psychiatric help. He must not have known about the evil psychiatrists at that time.
Okay mwesten, make a logical argument about that. (n.b. – take into account the politics from 1914- the Nat Socialist Party coming to power).
Mwesten, not only it is not ridiculous , but psychiatry was the most powerful and influential driving force behind Nazism. How so many posters here , including Jews, are totally incognizant of that , escapes my understanding. But this is going to require a full detailed comment which I’ll have it ready to post by tomorrow after work. This is a case of lack of knowledge of the historical context behind the Holocaust, the well documented history of psychiatric abuses, and the fixation to dissent about anything that LRH ever opposed against, regardless of the actual merits of such opposition , just to make Scn and/or LRH wrong. The irony with that , is that the unbiased analysis that are vital in the rehabilitation of the practice of psychiatry to reform the Mental Health sector are prevented by those fixations. Misemotion is indeed an enemy to reason.
Till tomorrow then.
TC
“…not only it is not ridiculous , but psychiatry was the most powerful and influential driving force behind Nazism. ”
Peter, whatever your beef is with psychiatry why not let it go? The driving force behind Naziism was Mr. Hilter’s belief in the degrading influence Jews and Bolsheviks had on a society as outlined in his book, “Mein Kampf”. That was the “driving force” behind Naziism. The ugly events in the history of psychiatry are just like the ugly events in the history of anything, a religion, capitalism, a political party, a human race, a nationality…
In the end it’s all just a history of the different ways and justifications people used to mistreat each other.
Hitler didn’t suddenly wake up one day and go “Oooh, I’ve just had a great idea!”
These were the beliefs being spearheaded by psychiatric “pioneers” such as Emil Kraepelin (Textbook of Psychiatry, 8th Edition, 1909) and, later, Ernst Rüdin.
Understanding how Hitler and indeed Germany went from A to B, one should look closely at psychiatry’s role – from the so-called advances in psychiatric research, “self-domestication”, “degeneration” and genetic psychiatry, to Aktion T4 and beyond.
Imho.
mwestern opines, “Hitler didn’t suddenly wake up one day and go “Oooh, I’ve just had a great idea!”
Correct. It was CENTURIES old prejudices that he drew from. Do you think that Hitler instigated the first Jewish “cleansing” in European history? It had happened several times before.
If you had studied history of Western Civ you wouldn’t be going down the rabbit holes you currently are.
Whatevs. My point is, ultimately, with all the other factors considered, he found justification for his actions within the psychiatric community. It was advances in psychiatric thought that medicalised the dehumanisation of the jews (and other undesirables before them). When Hitler’s plans to ship the Jews off to Madagascar and Siberia failed, he simply extended and amplified what was already taking place – all in the name of healing.
I’m not suggesting “the psychs” caused the Holocaust, only that the role German psychiatry played was significant. Imho.
I have no idea what you’re talking about. You sound like a scientologist. I’ll say no more.
Roger : “Peter, whatever your beef is with psychiatry why not let it go?”
I am afraid that I would have to ask you a similar question , dear Roger ; “Whatever your beef is with Scientology and Scientologists , why not let it go ?” I certainly , have the same right if you take into account the horrors that psychiatry is guilty of , even comparable to the Inquisition. The alleged destructiveness of Scn (to which I agree) totally pale when compared to that of which psychiatry is capable of . This is not Theta Clear’s opinion ; this is something a LOT of psychiatrists share , and will provide my sources.
Roger : “The driving force behind Naziism was Mr. Hilter’s belief in the degrading influence Jews and Bolsheviks had on a society as outlined in his book, “Mein Kampf”. That was the “driving force” behind Naziism.”
That only shows lack of proper research in your part to dismiss that so easily w/out even hearing my arguments first. But after I have finished my short dissertation , you might think differently then.
Roger : “The ugly events in the history of psychiatry are just like the ugly events in the history of anything, a religion, capitalism, a political party, a human race, a nationality…”
Do you think so , dear Roger ? Let’s enlighten you then , shall we ?
Roger : “In the end it’s all just a history of the different ways and justifications people used to mistreat each other.”
I wish it were that simple , but unfortunately , it isn’t. Let’s begin , then :
Throughout the Middle Ages , the insane were considered to be possessed by “Demons”. Many were executed as “Witches”. As the insane was thought of as a case of demonic possession , they were isolated , incarcerated , and abused. At he infamous Bethlem Royal hospital at London (founded in 1242 A.D) , people would pay for the “Bethlam Show” to watch the insane inmates and poke them with sticks. The insane were “treated” with blistering , enemas , purging, bleeding , water-boarding , water torture , vomit machines , etc , etc
http://www.bible.ca/psychiatry/psychiatry-historic-treatments-vomits-blood-letting-cold-baths-blistering-evacuation-purging.htm
Before Hitler had ascended to power , German psychiatry was involved in “Eugenics” ; the removal of “inferior genetic stock” from the population. The “German Society for Racial Hygiene” was founded in 1913 by the German psychiatrist Alfred Ploetz. Another German psychiatrist , Ernst Rüdin , joined him shortly. They declared “social hygiene” as a “spiritual movement”. This misguided idea of “Eugenics” is based on Darwin’s theories of evolution , where allegedly , the “best fitted” , or the “superior race” as a Nazi would call it , will dominate the environment. Misguidedly and erroneously interpreting Nietzsche”s “Will to Power” (the last part titled , “Discipline and Breeding”) , the Nazi thought that Nietzsche was in favor of eugenics and breeding an “Ideal Master Race”. It is important to know that “Will to Power” was allegedly compiled from notes by Nietzsche’s sister after his death. It is the belief of some scholars that she perverted Nietzsche works.
To justify their territorial conquests , the Nazis used their “Will for Power” concept , a concept wrongly interpreted from Nietzsche’s “Will to Power”. Nietzsche was considered by many German officers as the “Godfather of Fascism” , and he became a sort of idol and inspiration for Hitler. The Germans wrongly interpreted Nietzche’s “Ümbermensch” (translated as Superman , Super Human , Overman or Overhuman) , and gave the concept a false meaning of the goal to breed a superior race (the “Aryan Supremacy” , the “Master Race”) by getting rid of the “weak” ones.
In 1939 Hitler ordered the killing of the the “inmates” of the German psychiatric hospitals , in what was called “Operation Aktion T4”. The target was the children who allegedly were “ill’ with “idiocy” , “Down Syndrome” and other maladies. These murders were assisted and coordinated by 3 professors of psychiatry , The process was coordinated from Tiergartenstrasse 4 , the address for the Chancellery department. This operation resulted in the death of aprox 80,000 individuals. Long before the gas chambers at Auschwitz-Birkenau were running , the psychiatrists had already killing patients with gassing.Under the coordination of the psychiatrist Heyde (one of the T4 master minds) carbon monoxide chambers were installed for the specific purpose of killing patients.
The “effectiveness” of the Aktion T4 operation gave the Germans their “solution” to the “Jewish dilemma”. Psychiatrist Imfried Eberl , Heyde’s assistant , was the commander of the Treblinka’s extermination facility in Poland , where gassing was developed and “perfected”. The later use of the “Zyklon B” as a more effective killing agent than carbon monoxide was based on the “experimental” observations from psychiatrists. Psychiatrists who were involved at Aktion T4 , became consultants and technical advisors to the development of Nazi’s death camps.
Killing undesirables , were not the only crime of German psychiatrists ; they infected many children with tuberculosis to experiment on them at the Berliner Wittenauer Heilstätten psychiatric hospital. They were gasses and their brains studied. Dr Faltlhauser put children on a diet w/out any fat , and they died as a consequence of neurological maladies. Here is a quote from an excellent dissertation about “Psychiatry Ethics” published by the “Health Education and Training Institute” (HETI) and written by the psychiatrist Dr. Michael Robertson :
“Hitler ordered the cessation of the murders of psychiatric patients in August 1941. This decision was
made in response to the strenuous objections of various religious bodies, and even some sections
of the Nazi party. Despite this, the killing continued. It is estimated that up to twenty thousand
psychiatric patients were murdered by psychiatrists after the Nazis surrendered in May 1945. It is
believed that the bulk of the psychiatric profession cooperated with the process, although there wer
some exceptions. Many of the Nazi psychiatrists evaded justice and went on to academic careers in
post-war Germany. Julius Hallervorden was a neuropathologist at the Kaiser Wilhelm Institute during
the 1940s. He happily received numerous brains from the euthanasia centres to further his researcareer. Hallervorden and his supervisor, Hugo Spatz, laid low immediately after the war ended and
later ran the Max-Planck Institute for Brain Research in Frankfurt.
” ‘Hallervorden-Spatz disease’ is a rare childhood brain degenerative disorder, described by the pair. There is ongoing debate in neurological circles to rename the disease. The dissected brains of the victims of the euthanasia centres, the so-called “Hallervorden Collection”, remained at the Max-Planck institute until 1990,
when the tissue samples were eventually buried in a Munich cemetery. Professor Hans Heinze was the director of the Kaiser-Wilhelm Institute from 1939. It is suspected that a number of killings of children for ‘scientific purposes’ actually took place at the Institute. Heinze was prosecuted in the so-called ‘Doctor’s trial’ in Nuremburg in 1946. He ultimately evaded justice on the basis of ill-health. After his death in 1983, the board of directors of Wunstorf state hospital in Lower Saxony published an obituary stating “At the age of 87, the former director of our department for child and adolescent psychiatry (Prof Heinze) died…We shall honour his memory”.”
The atrocities perpetrated by psychiatrists is not limited to Germany. At the old Soviet Union , psychiatrists used to involuntarily “treat” and hospitalize “non-conformists” which included , rebels , religious leaders , revolutionaries attempting to fight the suppression of the regimen , political leaders , etc. India and China are other countries where this happened to a very , very large degree. Many of these events are quite recent.
In my second post about this , I’ll go into more detail about psychiatry at other scenarios beyond the Holocaust.
No , dear Roger ; I am afraid that I can’t let go you asked me to. The fact is that no profession in history has a more violent and suppressing past as psychiatry does , and I still have not covered the subject of psychotropic drugs which I will tomorrow IN DETAIL. (Are you eagerly waiting , dear John and Espiando ?)
I see so many others here attacking LRH’s view on psychiatry as if he didn’t have more than enough reasons to , and more so within that period of time where the abuses of psychiatry was in full bloom. Was the ideal solution to attack ALL psychiatrists and attribute to them the downfall of society and the cultural/social degradation ? No , it was not. Psychiatry have a very embarrassing and horrific past which will hunt them forever. But , I think there are quite a few of them reverting the general scene and getting ethics in on their profession. Many of them are against invasive treatments and against dangerous psychotropic drugs. Many of them are not afraid to face their past , and are more than willing to accept the many Human Right abuses that their profession was guilty of. Many of them are good people who honestly wants to help others.
No , dear Roger ; I don’t have a beef with psychiatry nor with any other mental therapy. My beef is with Human Rights abuses , and with a blind ignorance for actual Truth. That’s what I am against.
Best regards ,
TC
http://www.annals-general-psychiatry.com/content/6/1/8
http://www.breggin.com/psychiatrysrole.pbreggin.1993.pdf
Peter I read some of your epistle but I have no intention of reading it all. I’ll tell you why: it bores me. There are other reasons too but that reason can’t be disputed.
That’s very convenient, dear Roger ; very convenient indeed. That’s the usual response when someone doesn’t really have good arguments to counteract another’s. :-)))
Vaya con Dios, amigo.
TC
“In actual fact, psychiatry was the most powerful and driving influence behind Naziism”
Peter, that quote bears an uncanny verbatim resemblance to a comment you made. I would almost think you lifted it from Lucille Femine’s article. Ms Femine is a scientologist of course (and an artist, not an historian). Her article is a wonderful exercise for beginning philosophy students who play the game, “let’s find the logical fallacy”. She says psychiatry did this and psychiatry did that. I wonder if you can see the fallacy of such an argument. The fallacy is that psychiatry didn’t do those things. PEOPLE did those things.
But your impassioned argument isn’t really about the abuses of psychiatry. It’s about Ron Hubbard and your desire to rehabilitate his demolished credibility. Therefore, I am CONVENIENTLY refusing to engage you in a (possibly endless) debate about something that is merely a smokescreen for the real issue.
” “In actual fact, psychiatry was the most powerful and driving influence behind Naziism”
“Peter, that quote bears an uncanny verbatim resemblance to a comment you made. I would almost think you lifted it from Lucille Femine’s article. Ms Femine is a scientologist of course (and an artist, not an historian). Her article is a wonderful exercise for beginning philosophy students who play the game, “let’s find the logical fallacy”. She says psychiatry did this and psychiatry did that. I wonder if you can see the fallacy of such an argument. The fallacy is that psychiatry didn’t do those things. PEOPLE did those things.”
TC : Dear Roger, I am and was familiar with Ms Femine’s article , but attempting to portray here that my arguments were solely based on one single source (as apparently you are) just because of the “uncanny verbatim resemblance” to a single point I made, is like saying that because I paraphrased Dr. King at some comment he made , that all my arguments about Afroamerican’s civil and Human Rights are solely based in Dr King’s work. Obviously , that’s a convenient prejudgement and an actual attempt to refuse to debate the subject as you clearly has no arguments against mine.
I presented you, at the end of my original reply to you, with 2 specific sources to support my arguments (out of dozens similar to those that I possess) , both of which WERE written by psychiatrists (not by Scientologists or Scientology-hired psychiatrists) and published in psychiatry journals. The thesis from both articles is that psychiatry was a VERY influential driving force behind Nazism and the atrocities that Hitler committed. In fact, the “Nuremberg Doctors’ Trials” after WWII, clearly demonstrated the incredible influence that psychiatry had upon Hitler’s idea about how to “solve” the “Jewish Question”. I won’t bother quoting any source or posting any links, as I would clearly be wasting my time.
“But your impassioned argument isn’t really about the abuses of psychiatry. It’s about Ron Hubbard and your desire to rehabilitate his demolished credibility.”
TC : Incorrect, dear Roger ; I am trying to disseminate TRUTH, actual truth as it is evident that truth is not something that a few posters here like to deal with, let alone disseminate. I am here to provide the obvious balance that this blog lack, not because of Rinder in any way shape or form, but because this blog’s very liberal moderation policy (that I FULLY agree with as the best possible one) tends to attract quite a few haters. I am here to balance the equation, something that others apparently were not capable of doing. There is always 2 sides of a story, dear Roger ; other possible angles from which to view any subject. I am here to provide that 2nd side and those other angles, that’s all. People will make up their minds about which way to go on their own. And I will make VERY sure that I have provided them with ALL possible viewpoints on a given subject to debate about.
“Therefore, I am CONVENIENTLY refusing to engage you in a (possibly endless) debate about something that is merely a smokescreen for the real issue.”
TC : No, dear Roger ; you are CONVENIENTLY avoiding to acknowledge that I was right in my arguments, and that you have no valid ones to counteract mines.
TC
Peter, thank you for your kind words and continued support.
You are most welcome, dear Roger.
TC
I just wanted to clarify for you again, that I have absolutely nothing against psychiatry as an institution, even though that I object to the use of most (notice that I said “most” , not all) psychotropic drugs which I will discuss why some time tomorrow. It is based on my own research, and not in LRH’s ideas. I am quite aware that there are many psychiatrists who have a honest desire to help their patients, who doesn’t use invasive treatments or psychotropic drugs. I know that many of them have publicly accepted responsibility for the atrocities perpetrated by the profession since ancient times, and that many of them are protesting against , and exposing the Human Rights abuses that are committed by some psychistrists at countries where the protection for civil rights is almost non-existent.
I don’t believe in LRH’s “thesis” that the downfall of society and its many ills are a direct results of psychiatry. Neither I believe that there is a “galactic complot” by “whole track psychiatrists” to take control of this and other worlds.
But I DO believe that at the time that LRH wrote many of his issues on psychiatry, the Human Rights abuses were still happening to a very marked degree, specially in post-war Germany, Rusia, India, Cuba , and China. So many of LRH’s assertions were not that absurd at all. Something definitively HAD to be done with psychiatry at that period of time . Not doing anything about it would have been irresponsible.
Did LRH handle it in the best possible way ? No, he did not. He made EVERY psychiatrist guilty of criminal acts ; each one of them was a criminal to incarcerate and get rid of. His “solution” became a problem and an injustice. He could have attempted to educate them. Perhaps around that time psychiatry was beyond rehabilitation , I don’t know. But as with almost anything in Scn , LRH’s idea on psychiatry got frozen in time, and the CofS didn’t adapt to the current scenario where the profession finds itself , and failed to make peace and alliances with the many, many psychiatrists (and other mental health practitioners) that are currently advocating the protection of Human Rights, and a mental field with high ethic standards towards patients.
Today, just as it happened with the perception of homosexuality, psychiatrists , at least many of them, are guiding the profession towards a better understanding of what mental disorders are all about, and are more willing to learn new methods and techniques more in agreement with Free Will and self-determinism, and the validation of the rightness instead of only focusing in the wrongness of it all. Today the mental health field can change and be rehabilitated and reformed. Unfortunately, most Scientologists are stuck in time ; a long gone past. Well, even that has a solution as well.
TC
TC, I just now had a chance to catch up on this thread and I wanted to validate you for your various comments. While others don’t seem to be able to hang in there with true reason and resort to various logical fallacies, you’ve been holding your position with equanimity, facts and insight. Well done!
I eagerly await your presentation of PRIMARY DOCUMENTS that proves what you claim T.C. 😉
As I thought, nothing worth quoting from you T.C.
Now, why is it that I don’t find your reply any surprising at all , dear John ? Because that’s what anyone here always get from you when you really doesn’t have any valid argumets to counteract another’s. So you just use many worn phrases like “A 3rd grader analysis” , “This doesn’t deserve a reply from me” , “present ‘PRIMARY DOCUMENTS’ to ‘prove it’ ” , etc, etc, yawn, yawn, yawn.
I bet you didn’t even examined the links that I provided at the end of my reply to Roger where PSYCHIATRISTS THEMSELVES (not Scientologists or psychiatrists hired by the CofS) , including a very respected Psychiatry Journal, provided a DETAILED analysis about psychiatry’s role in the Holocaust.
How does it feel to be defeated by a “3rd grader” ? :-)))
“Now, why is it that I don’t find your reply any surprising at all , dear John ?”
Because you constantly come up with arguments that lack basic foundation and correct sourcing & logic. That’s why you don’t find my responses a surprise.
Tell that to the hundreds of psychiatrists (not Scientologists) that have made exactly the same analysis I made in dozens of Psychiatry journals, books and public official records. The problem with you, dear John, is that once you realize that my posted sources and links demolish your arguments, you just refuse to even look at them. You then resort to totally non-sequitur comments to cleverly deviate the attention from your obvious incapacity to just DEBATE, intead of just emoting about everything.
Peter – I’m not sure I can follow you down that road. Roger makes valid and excellent points regarding the lead up to the holocaust. I’d also like to mention the economic burdens placed on Germany after the Paris peace talks in 1919 and the general anti-Semitic view of most of Europe before WWII – hitler took a predjudice people already held and spent almost 10 years slowly making changes until it was possible to almost exterminate the Jewish population. If he had come to power and immediately started rounding people up and taking away their houses and business I don’t think the German people would have been as willing to follow him – it took years of his speeches and the slow degradation of the Jews for him to implement the ‘final solution’. I’m not sure where you feel psychiatrists came into play on this one. I will grant you that there were instances of Drs performing horrible tests on mentally challenged people and homosexuals before the camps but this was not widespread throughout Germany until the late 1930s. But the so called architect of the final solution was a farmer and it was implemented under a failed artist.
” I’m not sure where you feel psychiatrists came into play on this one. I will grant you that there were instances of Drs performing horrible tests on mentally challenged people and homosexuals before the camps but this was not widespread throughout Germany until the late 1930s. But the so called architect of the final solution was a farmer and it was implemented under a failed artist.”
Thanks for the reply, dear Observingsandiego ; please see my reply to Roger. I am not making a claim here that Hitler’s hate for Jews were the result of influence from psychiatrists. He blamed the Jews for Germany losing WWI as according to him, the 1918 Armistice that the Weimar Republic agreed to sign to end the war (as opposed to a formal surrender) was the result of the political and economic influence of Jews who owned almost half of the German banks, dominated the stock exchange, owned most of the nation’s newspapers, and ran close to 80% of the chain stores. He called the 1918 Armistice , “The Jew’s Stab in the Back”. He also blamed Jews for the dissemination of Bolshevism, as he considered Communism a threat to Germany.
Also because Marx had been converted to a Jew, he might have thought that Bolsheviks and Jews were secretly planning the take over of Germany. The big economic depression that came from the USA didn’t affect so much the Jews as they were in control of big merchandises and specialized fields. Hitler blame the Jews for that too.
Hitler had in his hands a big dilemma ; “The Jewish Question”. His “solution” – and HERE is where the tool called psychiatrists comes into play – WAS inspired TOTALLY on psychiatric beliefs and practices. Add to that Hitler’s faulty and convenient interpretation of Nietzsche’s “Will to Power”, and you have the perfect recipe for disaster and atrocities.
Hitler used the experiments and techniques from German psychiatrists , who had already started their OWN agenda at “Social Cleansing” , and applied THAT as his “solution” to the “Jewish Question”. See my reply to Roger for details. Psychiatrists had already killed more than 200,000 patients BEFORE Hitler’s death camps were created. German psychiatrists implemented involuntary eugenical sterilization and euthanasia centers, killing more than 100,000 GERMAN (not Jews) patients. There were six psychiatric enuthanasia centers using medical doctors to fake death certificates , using gas chambers disguised as “showers” , and mass burning corpses. These centers would become the Nazi’s death camps, using the methods, expertise, and advice of German psychiatrists. This is a quote from an article at the “International Journal of Risk & Safety in Medicine”, 4 (1993) 133-148 , authored by Dr. Peter R Bregging (a psychiatrist himself) , titled, “Psychiatry’s Role in the Holocaust” :
“According to many observers at the Nuremberg trails, psychiatry was the “entering wedge” into the Holocaust, and the tragedy might have not taken place w/out the profession’s active leadership”.
Now, this is a PSYCHIATRIST saying this, not Theta Clear. I provided the link for this paper as well as other link for an article on this subject, at the “Annals of Psychiatry” (a very respected publication for the profession) , at the end of my reply to Roger, and what did he and John do ? They totally ignored them and just brushed all my arguments off as “invalid” , “bored” , and “not worth examining”. I hereby present you, dear Obsevingsandiego, the “haters”. They only reply and listen to “arguments” that “validate” their obvious misemotion and hate for ANYTHING that LRH ever said or fought against.
You know why they only make shorts replies with non-sequitor comments filled with misemotion ? Because they have NO real arguments to counteract mine. They can’t friendly and intelligently debate a subject with someone who beat them every time and publicly so. I hereby challange anyone here to counteract my arguments WITH arguments, not with silly emotional responses. Who is the first ?
Best regards,
TC
Hi Peter, thank you as always for your detailed response. I’m fairly well educated on both WWs (at least I like to think I am haha) and this isn’t something I’ve come across – even after reading many, many books on the subject. My response to you wasn’t a knee jerk reaction (i.e. assuming you hated the profession) it was an honest question/statement to you (not that I think you thought differently but in light of the other comments your post generated I wanted to clarify). I’m always interested to learn something that I don’t know or further my understanding of things I do know. I will definitely check out the links and the reading you suggested and then maybe we can have an actual discussion (I know what you are referencing and then therefore can make an intelligent and appropriate response, whether in agreement or not, then. 😉
” Hi Peter, thank you as always for your detailed response.”
TC : You are most welcome, dear Observingsandiego.
“I’m fairly well educated on both WWs (at least I like to think I am haha) and this isn’t something I’ve come across –even after reading many, many books on the subject.”
TC : I understand ; this isn’t something that you would normally find in common textbooks on WWI ans WWII, or on “World History” textbooks as they mainly emphasize the political and economic context that created the conflict in the first place. Therefore , they stress points like treaties (The Versailles Treaty, for i.e) , key political figures, specific key battles and turning points , key military figures , etc. Most textbooks on World History covers basically the same , and even though the Holocaust is obviously mentioned , the technical details of it and the existent medical practices and methods already being developed and tested , is seldom discussed unless specialized books and articles are also consulted.
But there is plenty of written information on this subject of psychiatry and medicine as it relates to the methods used by Hitler to implement his “solution”. I’ll provide a few of them at the end of this reply so you have it in one place instead of being scattered all over my previous posts.
“My response to you wasn’t a knee jerk reaction (i.e. assuming you hated the profession) it was an honest question/statement to you (not that I think you thought differently but in light of the other comments your post generated I wanted to clarify).”
TC : Got it about that ; thanks.
“I’m always interested to learn something that I don’t know or further my understanding of things I do know. I will definitely check out the links and the reading you suggested and then maybe we can have an actual discussion (I know what you are referencing and then therefore can make an intelligent and appropriate response, whether in agreement or not, then. ;”
TC : Fair enough , my friend. :-)))
Here are the links. Study them as well as the books , articles , etc , they refer to so you have a complete view on the subject. Remember , this are academic articles , books , etc, in the main written by psychiatrists themselves and medical doctors.
http://www.heti.nsw.gov.au/Global/HETI-Resources/psychiatry/An%20Overview%20of%20Psychiatric%20Ethics.pdf
https://chaoticpharmacology.files.wordpress.com/2015/10/psychiatry-and-politicale28093institutional-abuse-from-the-historical-perspective.pdf
http://pb.rcpsych.org/content/pbrcpsych/24/9/347.full.pdf
http://www.publichealthreviews.eu/upload/pdf_files/11/00_Lindert.pdf
http://www.e-reading.club/bookreader.php/135879/Bartov_-_The_Holokaust_-_origins,_implementation,_aftermath.pdf
Best regards ,
Peter
Here is a very informative article for you and others here to take a look at. Read it , and make of it what you will.
http://www.publichealthreviews.eu/upload/pdf_files/11/00_Lindert.pdf
Best regards ,
Peter
Peter, that document you have linked us to is a very academic-looking agenda-advancing dissertation written by a scientologist. It’s a long and tedious bit of reading and I hope you’re not actually suggesting anybody take it as fact. That sort of writing is meant to be submitted to professional academicians who will analyze it critically on the strength of their specialized education. We “regular” people can’t critique it unless we research every line. I’ll pass on that.
I have a better idea. Why don’t you just come out and say what it is you want to prove? What point are you trying to make? Arguments that rely on what’s written here and what’s printed there and by whom are endless arguments. ENDLESS. So please just say what your point is.
Dear Roger , this isn’t about what “Peter wants to prove” ; this is about what dozens if not hundreds of psychiatrists themselves (responsible ones) believe psychiatry’s role in the Holocaust was.
so you are basically saying that :
Jutta Lindert, PhD, MA, Protestant University of Applied Sciences Ludwigsburg, Ludwigsburg, Germany.
Yael Stein, MD, Hebrew University – Hadassah Medical Center, Jerusalem, Israel
Hans Guggenheim, PhD, Founder, Foundation Guggenheim, Boston, United States.
Jouni J. K. Jaakkola, MD, DSC, PhD, Center for Environmental and Respiratory Health Research, University of Oulu, Oulu,Finland.
Rael D. Strous, MD, Sackler Faculty of Medicine, Tel Aviv University, Tel Aviv, Israel.
are ALL Scientologists forwarding their own agendas in an academic journal ?
Do you have any evidence to support that allegation , dear Roger ?
I would like your answer first before making any additional comments on this article.
Peter
Okay Peter. Psychiatry was a driving force behind the Nazi’s. Psychiatry is evil because it influences people who study it to become evil.
Dear Roger, I’ll tell you a little bit about myself so that you and others here know where I stand on this “Scn/LRH v/s psychiatry” dilemma , though I feel that my viewpoint on this had already been explained at length at previous posts. But first I just wanted to comment (and my apology in advance for assuming things) that it seems to me that you are either a practicing psychiatrist ? against which I have absolutely nothing (you seems like a very nice intelligent individual) , or you have been helped by psychiatry ? in which case I am happy for you and totally support you on that.
Having gotten that out of the way to keep the communication line clean and honest, I will start by saying that I hate two-valued type of analysis : “Right v/s Wrong” , “Evil v/s Good” , “White v/s Black” , etc. They lack enough multiplicity of viewpoints to properly evaluate anything , leading to fixations, prejudgments, and possible injustices.
I very much believe in a infinity-valued logic as Truth is a relative proposition which depends on many factors analyzed all together. There are always many angles from which to look at anything. Those who are willing to inspect every possibility and viewpoint have a very free mind which is almost impossible to enslave or “hypnotize”. To say that something or someone is absolutely evil or absolutely good is a fallacy and a misguided fixation.
I believe in teaching others to think for themselves , and to arrive at their own conclusions on anything, free from undue influence and authoritarian approaches to knowledge and data. I love free thinkers ; remind me of the Renaissance and the Alexandrian Schools.
I believe that LRH did many wrong things which wasn’t expected from a man like him. Attacking critics and dissenters for disagreeing with any part of Scn or it as a whole , is not only wrong , it is suppressive. Deceiving others for so many years as to the alleged abilities to be gained from the Bridge is inhuman , as most of us stayed in Scn in the first place to acquire those exact abilities as advertized by him. Otherwise , many would have just walked out within months of having experienced Scn. He was wrong about forcing people to believe and stay in Scn as many of his policies form the 60s clearly infers. And he was wrong about others things as well.
I also believe that he did quite a few good things. I know this when I am capable of helping my little princess with assist every time she gets sick or injured like a few weeks ago when she sprained her arm and was in a LOT of pain. It was very late at night when her mother called me to come and check her out. I am no medical doctor , but no bones seemed to be broken or damaged. As it was late at night, and the hospital was far away, I decided to give her an assist to alleviate the pain and see how it goes. I did a Touch Assist on her and ran the incident using old Bk-1 techniques. She improved a lot, but still felt a lot of pain when she moved her arm a lot. But was able to sleep.
Next day was Sunday where only emergency services open so I gave her another Assist with even better results , and put her a sprained wrist support. Next day she went to school and was able to write with the hand even if with a little pain. I gave her another Assist. Then on Tuesday her arm had completely healed enough to feel no pain whatsoever and play all day with both arms. In just 3 days! what seemed a serious injury which usually takes a lot longer to heal, was completely well.
I believe LRH did also good when due to my auditor training, I am capable of really listening to others w/out evaluating or invalidating for them, while making them feel really understood and acknowledged, and thus , doing a lot of good for them. I feel he did good when using the study Tech (regardless if he actually discovered it or just compiled it from the work of others) I have been able to help my little princess to have academic excellence (straight As ) in ALL her years as a student where she have won numerous school contests including Spelling Bee contests (in English) when her native language is another. Gee, she even correct her father every time at his horrific grammar.
I believe he did good when I have been able to help a lot of people to handle a multiplicity of life ruins through the use of honest and ethical auditing.
That LRH lied to us a lot of times is also my belief, but that he told many truths as well is something I have a solid reality on. He lied to us when he told us that he was a nuclear physicist and that had graduated from university. He lied to us about his alleged war injuries. He lied to us about the alleged abilities that the Bridge was capable of bringing about. And he lied about many other things as well.
But he told us the truth when he explained the principles of ARC. He told us the truth when he explained to us the mechanism behind overts and withholds and their manifestation in human behavior. He told us the truth when he said that past traumatic experiences are capable of being recorded and being unwittingly and unwillingly reactivated at period of stress, causing changes in attitudes and general well being. He told us the truth when he told us that function is senior and more important than structure. He told us the truth when he said that man is basically good. And so he told many other truths as well.
He suppressed either directly or indirectly, unwittingly or willingly, many individuals, but he also changed many lives for the better. He could be a self-righteous asshole, but he also was a very gentle well-mannered individual.
I believe that Hitler had a very deep hatred for Jews as a result of many historical events of a social, economic, and political nature ; but I also believe that he used the practices and beliefs of the psychiatrists of his time as the perfect justification and methods to put in practice his “solution” to the so called “Jewish Question”. Without that influence , many historical events would have turned out quite different , and many lives saved. Psychiatry is the profession with the worst and darkest past that humans have ever practiced.
I believe that it took quite a lot of time for psychiatrists to finally confront and publicly accept the many atrocities that their colleagues committed in the past, and their role in helping the Holocaust happen. That many of them have accepted this as a fact , is evidenced by the many academic articles written by psychiatrists themselves at psychiatry journals and publications. Even the own “German Association for Psychiatry, Psychotherapy and Psychosomatics (DGPPN) publicly accepted in 2010 psychiatry’s role at the Holocaust in a speech given by its president Dr. Frank Scneider.
I believe that a lot of psychiatrists have been putting ethics in at their profession, and have showed the courage to face their past , and their willingness to change it for the better. A lot of them have honorable desires to help others and ARE actually doing it.
I believe that anybody deserve his chance at redemption, and that anyone is worth salvaging. Punishment is a tool of the beasts ; compassion and forgiveness are the tools of a civilized society. We all can be better than we are ; we all can change. I believe in alliances not in war and conflicts.
SCn, LRH, and psychiatry have ALL harmed others in different ways. They have also helped others in many different ways. This is not a “white or black” proposition, dear Roger ; this has many , many shades of gray.
I have absolutely nothing against psychiatry ; I only have a beef against violation of human rights and two-valued “ethics” or “moral” analysis , as those last ones are always misguided and full of misconceptions , half-truths, and general injustice.
My duty is the dissemination of Truth ; convenient or inconvenient ones. Truth has no color, no gender, no race , no preferences, and chooses no sides. Truth is also serene and not misemotional.
My duty is NOT to defend LRH, or Scn, or psychiatry, or Pro-Scn blogs, or Anti-Scn blog , or anything like that. My duty is the dissemination of truth, the fostering of Human Rights, and the rehabilitation of Free Will, Self-determinism and self-esteem. I am never one-sided, dear Roger ; I am always multiple-sided, and thus I can easily change my mind about anything as I never fixedly hold to any single viewpoint.
I hope that this time I had made myself clear enough for you and others here. I won’t be posting any more comments on this thread. I don’t pretend to bore anyone to death. :-)))
Take care, my friend.
Best regards,
Peter
Roger, I’ll save you the trouble. I read through everything. There was not a SINGLE piece of primary documentation showing that Hitler was primarily motivated or driven by anything written by psychs vis-a-vis how he formed or executed his “Nazi” program.
It was ALL supposition.
Thanks for the response Peter and the links!! I will check them out tonight/tomorrow am. I appreciate you taking the time to respond and redo the links for me. 😉
“To empower a group give them a common enemy.”
—There is no question: Hubbard was a man of strategy.
To demonstrate his conspired strength, he would have his group galvanized and unified, being perceived swinging blows with a single mighty fist. It doesn’t matter who the enemy is, it only matters that there is one.
Taking a good look at how scn-gy treats the field of Psychiatry reveals the nature of the beast, which, put into action gives new meaning to the term psychological warfare.
…
The thought of Hubbard’s passing filled the mind of David Miscavige with anticipation. He was prepared.
Today the game plan is more than 50 years old and unchanged. That is because the new leader does not possess the creative power to adapt. He has molded himself by the policy and direction of the founder but has nothing new to add himself, except perhaps empty promises like that of OT Nine. He is quite literally a puppet on the string of a dead master. As you would expect from a wooden head, the strategic move he makes today will the mirror image of the strategy invented by his idol in the beginning, not his own. He comes to the day wherein he fools only himself. Welcome to the end, blind leader. Sleep in the bed of your making.
Outstanding post, Mark!
Ask not for whom the eternal tube turns.
It turns for thee, it turns for thee.
It ALWAYS turns for me…
one has to wonder how Hubbard would have changed and adapted scientology had he lived… would he have embraced the Internet or railed against it? would he have realized that the way to keep his legacy alive would be to change and grow with (actual) science and technology? it is true that DM has no imagination, that is why he cannot come up with anything better than rehashing the entire opus of scn again and again and again, selling the same ancient texts and calling them new. but Hubbard, if nothing else, was a man if prodigious imagination and I have to think that we would be seeing a very different scntology had he lived longer. a religion, or ethos needs to be able to change and grow with the times in order to survive, and so scntology will not be able to make it. I am always amazed when I hear recent escapees talk about sending Telexs. how do you even make, let alone send a telex in 2015? and mimeographs? special photographic equipment to scan these new “psych” documents? um, my PHONE has the ability to take photos of text in high quality… what kind of “equipment” do they mean? film cameras? a tripod? whatever it is, they’ll be charging whichever sucker they talk into paying for it at least 5 grand, guaranteed.
Hi sashiebgood, I like your post.Miss Ann and Telexes’ were something to see back in my old Sea Org Days and Nights.I was terrible! During bull-baiting mention Telex to me and the whole group would giggle and then totally laugh with me!Interesting what you post about Ron if he had lived.Yes he had an amazing imagination,but too bad the ego and the siprit were on another path at times and not a good one either in my view from what happened to me.Always,Ann.
Hi sashiebgood, Spell-check! I meant spirit.Ann.
very true Ann, and I always like your posts too! in any event, I imagine that there would just be even more crazy ideas about people and their motivations, and perhaps the lot of people still in would be even more entrenched, bc at least LRH had a personality that could win people over at times. DM has none of that, from what I can tell, he seems to be a thoroughly nasty person. but I suppose neither one was/is very good, you don’t become a cult leader by being nice. and DM is perhaps the very product of his environment growing up – he was rewarded for being a nasty bastard and reflecting the 2 faced aspects of Hubbard back at him. and therefore he deserves every bit of humiliation and karmic retribution that he has coming to him.
“would he have realized that the way to keep his legacy alive would be to change and grow with (actual) science and technology? ”
Given that LRH did NOT change and grow with tech & science WHILE he lived, had he simply lived longer, there is no reason to think that he would have changed his ways.
If the Evil Psychs were behind the holocaust why were Freud and his family only saved from incarceration in a concentration camp by intervention at the highest diplomatic levels, which allowed them to flee the Nazi Reich and take refuge in England?
As I recall that was an actual Sun headline in 2012 when some of us invited a couple journalists into the IAS event prior to the “Cult in your back yard” conference. It really shows how the rest of the world views the “Church” these days – and how little the mainstream media fears it now. It’s being “fair gamed” – a kind of karmic inevitability really.
Karma’s a bitch….
So what happens once he has a list of all of the psychs on the planet? Psych in hot water news?
Really? For some reason I get the idea there might be a charge to read the Psych in hot water news.
So he gets his list and writes his news….for money…..then what? I would guess there would more requests for money to help him “go after” all the naughty psychs on his list….after all he is a licensed private investigator. On and on and on with no results as to the church’s goal of elimination of psychs on the planet.
There are many people over the years who have done terrible things to others….Scientologists and psychs included. Psychs are not basic on the chain. As much money the church makes a year “fighting” psychiatry one could say the COS is the basic on the chain.
Blame someone, make an enemy of him or her, spread the word and collect money to destroy him.
It worked for Mr Hubbard, for Pompadour so, why not for this Kramer?
Silvia you are spot-on!
There was a long footnote somewhere in the original dianetic book regarding psychiatry, essentially it said to leave it alone , that they tried to help and had their own problems.
That footnote disappeared in subsequent editions.
Obviously he changed his mind in the following years but the point is that if you rewrite history people do not know who they are and what it is really about.See 1984.
In any case this email is lame.
So there wasn’t any staff members of psychiatric hospitals who were gassed along with patients as part of The Holocaust?
http://www.ww2f.com/topic/56703-poznan-hitlers-first-death-camp/
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3266090/Revealed-dark-history-Hitler-s-death-camp-Nazis-murdered-psychiatric-patients-nurses-test-gas-chambers-used-mass-extermination-Jews.html
What a waste of time and effort.
They love exposing “Psych Crimes” and then scream bigotry when anyone exposes theirs.
As for waking up to what’s happening?
As my grandfather told me at a young age “There’s none so blind as them that don’t want to see”. To which, after my expereience with RCo$, I would add ” or too scared to see”.
It just makes me want to scream at them Wake the fuck up!. But they are trapped by the LWrongHubbard mindfuck (as were we all till we got out), I feel for those trapped by disconnection, but despise DM and his legion of doom (RTC).
Someone once said “You can have God without religion, but you can’t have religion without the Devil.” As every fundamentalist religion that uses ffear, force and punishment to control its parishioners, so the Church of Scientology has its own very useful devil, the all powerful and everywhere in history “psychs.”
I think it was Julius Caesar who told his psychiatrist that he liked killing people and his evil psych of course encouraged him “Yes, Julie, go for it, you gotta be yourself baby.” See … they were EVERYWHERE in history.
It’s a good thing for Ken scientologists aren’t the sharpest knives in the drawer. They won’t ask relevant questions like, “What is your plan to destroy psychiatry beyond putting the peccadillos of individual psychiatrists under the spotlight?” If Ken is really making life difficult for more than a couple psychiatrists he’s liable to stir a hornet’s nest and he doesn’t want that. No problem, he’s not hurting anybody. He’s just hopping on the $camatology gravy train while he can. This is what would be called a “business opportunity” in the ethical universe of L.Ron Hubbard.
Kenneth Krammer needs to get his ass routed to the nearest MAA ASAP. What a namby-pamby, panty-waist dilettante. He is openly stating:
“Note 2: Our focus is on psychiatrists. Not psychologists, mental health counselors, social workers nor marriage & family therapists.”
Doesn’t he realize that these folks engage in ‘other practices’ and that these ‘other practices’ have deep connections to the evil of psychiatry itself? The mighty IAS should be all over this campaign to destroy psychiatry AND ‘other practices’ rather than just playing around with another ‘reg cycle’ with a whale. In fact, they should fire up the Scientology Media Studios and start broadcasting their efforts to destroy these ‘other practices’ so that the English speaking world can see what scientology is all about. That alone should be enough to flood the Ideal Orgs with new bodies in the shop. Once the public finds out that scientology also provides humanity with Total Spiritual Freedom, it will be all they can do to try to control the masses trying to break down the doors of every scientology org, just trying for a taste of OT ability.
Of course they will have to destroy the internet first and it would also be very helpful to find someone with OT abilities, or even a ‘clear’ for that matter. Details…
The pre-eminent historian and author, Deborah Lipstadt, has described Scientology’s version of history as “soft-core Holocaust denial”.
Here’s the blog entry where she says that.
http://lipstadt.blogspot.ca/2007/05/according-to-scientologists-holocaust.html
Interesting he should mention Wales. According to the 2011 UK census there were 57 [fifty seven] Scientologists in Wales. The Royal College of Psychiatry claims over 550 members in Wales. Looks like Slappy’s Army is outnumbered 10:1.
I wonder how many miscavologists would dare hover their mouse over a google search of “scientology crimes” and read the contents.
Oh, oh, oh! I know! None! Why? Because their own minds won’t let them do it. The e-meter sees all and knows all….
Are you saying there’s a big e-meter in the sky?
OH my! three swings and … you’re F… N(uked)
And not in a good way either….
Just a continuation of Hubbard’s personal take on “history” and his desire to make it fit his own twisted “realities”.
What is perhaps the biggest shock is — how it is remotely possible for Ken and others of his ilk to not have woken up just one teeny tiny bit.
I’m not asking for a full blown AWAKENING — god (or whoever) forbid.
Just a teeny tiny shift of focus. Just one or two degrees on a compass.
BUT NOPE — nada.
Zip. Zap. NADA.
It’s almost hopeless …
But as one who firmly believes in unicorns and PlanetZen-La-La — where an old boyfriend of mine once claimed I hailed …
I cling to hope …
That someday Ken and his cronies — or a few of them — shift 1-2 degrees …
Not wishing for full circle — just a few degrees.
WIndhorse
(for those who didn’t know — I’m a she — not a he)
Hi windhorse, So happy to see your post.Oh those Unicorns and those Planets,I have been told in years past,I hung around them too! Blinded by my love of words! I so agree,that I wish with you those still in would shift just a teeny bit and see a crack of light break inside the bubble.But all I can do is send hope they will one day see.I think you are a sweet and very strong she-spirit,Always,Ann.
It’s a witch hunt. No other religious organization on the planet spends money donated to them targeting a group of people. How is this now bigotry?
Oh! It most certainly is bigotry! Complete and utter bigotry.
Bigotry is too soft a word, really, for the ilks of scientology.
“Apolcalyptic bigotry “, yes
now that fits rather nicely.
“Jonestown bigotry…..
Can DM please explain to us Wogish types how the whole track psychiatrists were really behind the Holodomor??
If the whole track psychiatrists can keep an organization running over many lifetimes, that means that they already have top-level OT abilities, doesn’t it? So what’s in it for them messing around on some prison planet? Why don’t they fly off to some high-class luxury planet to enjoy life in style?
I hate when someone’s bad sci-fi story isn’t internally consistent.
RMycroft, internal inconsistencies is what lead to me investigating Hubbard’s “OT tek”. I believe the big slip ups occurred when he was on drug/drinking binges.
Well… if you study it well enough, you will see that the definition of “Psychiatry” in the technical dictionary actually says the difference between psychiatry & scientology is that psychiatry is authoritarian and tells the person what’s wrong with them, often introducing a new lie. Scn finds out what’s wrong with the person from the person.
I’ll let that sink in for a sec…
Now, since scientology is provably more authoritarian than the people running around in white coats issuing drugs and other weird techie stuff for mental illness, one gets to see where scientology is actually dramatizing what it resists, big time. No other religion is as “tell you what’s wrong with you and everyone else for that matter” than scientology. And it makes so much money out of it it’s unbelievable and easily hides behind lawyers and political constitutions, fantastic scam, brilliant in fact, even Hitler would have been impressed.
If you take the concept a step further, you’ll see that technical definition can also mean everyone from school teachers, surgeons, politicians, Mike and Marty, you and me, the whole shooting match and even and particularly parents. Telling your kid to put that razor blade down because you are silly to play with such things, it will damage you, can and is in fact being defined as authoritarian, hence you’re a psyche too. Trust me scientology will go that far to have authority over it’s followers and introduce a scam to extract more even money from them with whatever it can dream up.
Hubbard’s pet peeve was psychiatry, he would have been a lot better off leaving them out of it all together, not even he could have predicted what the future held in that definition, especially once miscavige got a hold of it.
Scientology likes to believe “it thinks outside the box.” When in actual fact it is the box! By the way, auditing doesn’t exist anyway in the church, so how would they know, that’s one hell of a big authoritarian organisation! (Compulsory Sec checks being the prime example).
He could more easily explain “one ring to rule them all” and give you the code to “The Matrix”.
The sickly aspect of everything scientology is that it strewn with misconceptions, be they yours or someone else’s.
Firstly, the creation/restoration of self-determinism which is only reason auditing and the organisation is purportedly there for according to Hubbard’s original writings has been eroded from day one week one. Whether he really cared about that will be argued to the end of time. But it turned around and really bit him and everyone else really hard.
The common denominator of all societies is rather easily proven to be the individual. Yet individualism is the first casualty in group survival, just the concept of “it’s not what your country can do for you but what you can do for your country,” has seen the lines swell like crazy at the recruitment office for defence, police etc.
Scientology was doomed to corruption both internally and externally from the onset of profiting for survival. Maybe there is no such thing as group truth and that it is reserved for individual pursuit or at best small groups with incredible self restraint not to be swept along, swirling with fiscal and social pressures. What is true for you is true is about the sanest thing scientology came up with along with differentiation but it’s totally unworkable in a group situation, Policy has never worked as we were led to believe it would.
I personally think the Axioms, Logics and certain other stuff in it are remarkable writings and I just happen to share smile or two with my PC when and if I audit anymore but the misery enveloping organised scientology is just too much and too great, what stands as a religion is as criminal to the core as it can get. I hope the abuses end soon but it will probably take the whole organisation to have their legal signature eradicated.
The stuff about psychiatry and other sweeping group explanations for insanity is either a really stupid thing to say or so out gradient it’s really stupid anyway.
Doesn’t all of this about psychs just stem from LRH not being accepted by the medical community after dianetics or did it exist in his writings before that?
Does it matter?
Per what I read, it came as shock to him that they didn’t have anything workable in their arsenal to combat insanity. But he believed they must have had prior to Dianetics, all those big books and all.
That is correct Observingsandiego. If LRH had REALLY wanted to create something better than existed in psychology he would have buckled down and done honest scientific research. He purposely did NOT do honest research but made up crap and started his money making scam.
facebook allows hate groups?!? Tut tut.
No, Facebook doesn’t. Report the group to Facebook, and it will get removed.
Yes Jens. I’ve seen many on FB. Usually after being reported a response from FB to the tune of “The page you reported is in accord with FB community standards.” Some of them being about literally, slaughtering children. That’s why I stopped using FB about 1 1/2 years ago.
FB is a social worry at times. I don’t use it either for similar reasons. The wife does to keep in contact with family splattered across the planet and to that end it is good but it turns my stomach with the sub culture aspect. Everyone to the own but beware there’s lots of assholes out there and a weird social hierarchy attached.
I wish you were joking, but, I know this is no joke. And the slaughtering of children, is this in other countries? Who’s doing it? John, it’s just really, really hard for me to get my mind around this. Is it mostly Africa countries?
Mostly Af & M.E. pages OSD. The content allowed or disallowed is dictated completely by Zuckermann, I know one of the C level execs at FB. That person told me that no matter how bad the page, if Mark likes it politically it is untouchable. No matter how good, if he disagrees politically it is subject to removal at a whim.