Watch this new (less than 30 minute) video with Aaron Smith Levin and Luke Catton discussing the current problems of Narconon.
Since the passage of the “Eliminating Kickbacks in Recovery Act” in 2018, it is illegal to pay commissions for referrals to drug rehab programs. This Kickbacks in Recovery Act now makes FSM Commission for the Narconon program a federal crime.
Not paying FSM Commissions is a direct violation of L. Ron Hubbard policy.
In the mind of a scientologist, there is no question who wins in a battle between “wog” law and L. Ron Hubbard policy. Wog law doesn’t even appear on the radar screen.
Contact, Aaron by email at growingupinscientology@gmail.com or Luke at lucas@lucascatton.com, or go to LucasCatton.com if you have information or know someone who does.
I could not leave out of this Alcoholics Anonymous discussion the following from the State of Man Congress, lecture “Zones of Control and Responsibility of Governments,” Jan. 3, 1960, transcript pages 235-236. It appears Hubbard was a fan.
“Alcoholics Anonymous are – those people have my respect, believe me, because how can anybody live with that many losses? That they stay in and continue to control, to a marked degree, a zone of almost total irresponsibility of that character is an attestation of great stick-to-ivity and great character. And my hat’s off to them.”
“Knowledge and control and responsibility all go hand in glove. These things are all together…In order to know about something, you must have some control over it – some slight control – to know about it. In order to have control over something, you must have some responsibility for it. In order to be responsible for it, you must know something about it. And we sort of have a brand-new triangle, composed of knowledge, control and responsibility as three corners.” – LRH
Peridot wrote:
““Knowledge and control and responsibility all go hand in glove. These things are all together…In order to know about something, you must have some control over it – some slight control – to know about it. In order to have control over something, you must have some responsibility for it. In order to be responsible for it, you must know something about it. And we sort of have a brand-new triangle, composed of knowledge, control and responsibility as three corners.” – LRH”
One of the reasons i love coming to this blog is for the odd LRH quote former members drop. Like this one! It’s completely wrong. I had thought of a counter example that disproves the claim in the second sentence before i’d even finished it. Likewise for the responsibility claim in the third sentence. Finding stuff like this validates my rejection of scientology and my opinion that extracting any edible nuts of knowledge requires washing away all the shit it’s embedded in. I’ll look elsewhere for something to consume.
Priscilla, Umm …… when I said that I would wager Mike was not unhappy with your posts,
Of course, I cannot speak for Mike. I was just trying to let you know that IMHO, I don’t think you did anything wrong at all and ..
I’ve been posting here for a long time and it is just my opinion, but I would guess that Mike was not upset with you in the least bit and I would also guess he enjoyed your posts as much as I did and
I enjoyed them plenty!
Priscilla, I want to tell you of my own personal experiences with 12 step groups.
I went to a 12 step group (NA – not AA) and in the beginning (for about 3 months), it really helped me in the following way:
It was great to hear from people who had beaten back their addiction (although most all of them only stayed “clean” for a time and then went back to their addiction). It gave me strength to think that if they could do it, there was hope for me and maybe these people could help me do the same thing.
But after 3 months, it got incredibly repetitive and boring and I had to face the facts that for me …, it was a terrible waste of time. I stayed “clean” for 22 years and would periodically go back to a meeting just to see if anything changed. Nothing changed. IMHO, it was always a complete waste of time because people just repeated the same old things over and over again. I couldn’t stand it anymore.
Then one day, some guy came to a meeting and he spoke for 20 minutes about how bad he felt because his cat had died of old age.
The meetings only lasted for 60 minutes and everyone – on average – knew that meant they could talk for about 3 minutes to give other people a fair chance to speak.
After this guy had been speaking for 20 minutes, some lady finally stood up and told him words to the effect …
“I’m sure we all feel very sorry for you that your cat died. I’m sure that most all of us know what that is like and how painful it is for you. But this meeting is only 60 minutes long and so far, you have been speaking for 20 minutes and that is just not fair to other people who want a chance.
I might not even say anything to you, but you are speaking about something that has nothing to do with the subject matter of this meeting. It is completely off topic and I must ask you to stop now and give other people a chance to talk.
The guy threw his hands up in the air and let out a howl of anguish and ran out of the meeting. I’m sure most everyone there felt terrible about the entire incident.
But that was the last 12 step meeting I ever attended and I would never go back again.
The fact that the Feds are now investigating any aspect of this criminal cult is great news.
I just wish there was some way to direct the Feds to the many times Leah and Mike have explained that in order to investigate this cult, the Feds really need to understand how the cult is organized to protect themselves from being investigated.
Leah and Mike have both explained many times how the cult is organized to deceive any outsiders who are trying to investigate them and lie to the Feds. I hope the Feds will find a way to review Mike & Leah’s remarks about that. Without that knowledge, it will be extremely difficult for the Feds to do any kind or real investigation.
This cult is all set up and organized to lie to the Feds at every single step.
Dear @Priscilla, Thank you for your post. I am not expert on Narconnon or Alcoholics Anonymous or its spinoff groups. However, while I was in Scientology and after I got out, a colleague and pal who is passionately involved with “NA” has been frequently very critical of my involvement in Scientology.
No one really enjoys being judged and criticized, however, I have found this one to be stand-out strange. I would think a recovering drug addict with nearly three decades of active volunteering as a “sponsor” for various “sponsees” in Narcotics Anonymous would be pretty chill on another person engaging in a mental health and spiritual health journey. You have helped me to see, possibly it is a pot calling the kettle black. (There is, of course, an LRH term for this: similar overts [non-survival deeds] of your own.)
This is another excellent blog post. This is some serious stuff here. If someone needs help with overcoming addiction, they do not need scamming and betrayal.
Thanks, I have a lot of experience with twelve step programs. While current members and members who no longer attend but still credit twelve step with their recovery will vehemently disagree, twelve step programs involve a lot of indoctrination.
The problem for me is that twelve step programs are the default solution for addiction treatment. Nobody hears about alternatives and even doctors don’t seem to know about anything other than AA. So, if someone doesn’t vibe with the program, it looks pretty bleak. AA will literally tell members if they leave the program they will relapse and possibly die-“jails, institutions, or death.”
It takes a lot of self confidence to leave. It also becomes a very large pert of a members social life, and those friendships tend to end when a member leaves. It’s not disconnection, but members don’t really seem to want to have anything to do with someone whose left. I’ve experienced it, as have many others I’ve spoken with.
Just wanted to add a fresh perspective. I was in it for years. Being told I was sick, was powerless, and would ruin my life by leaving AAmade me depressed. If someone who is in AA and didn’t like the way it makes them feel, I want them to know there are alternatives.
A friend who left AA recommended Mike and Leah’s series to me, for some of the similarities to AA. Obviously the two are very different. But learning about other mind co trial groups had helped me deprogram from AA.
Just to be a bit facetious, just because a person quit drinking or using drugs doesn’t mean they are not still “nuts”. There is an expression in AA called being a “dry drunk” meaning that even though a person quits drinking they still continue with a lot of their previous wacky behavior and remain generally pessimistic about life.
There is an expression from somewhere that says “nature hates a vacuum” so if you quit drinking (or blow scn) you might want to replace it with something else. haha
There are dozens upon dozens of AA slogans. Current members derisively refer to ex-members as “dry drunks,” because they no longer attend meetings or work the steps. The major indoctrination is that if you are an alcoholic, you literally cannot function without AA. That is, you will drink, and “to drink is to die” or you will face “jails, institutions, and death.”
AA says “the great obsession of every abnormal drinker to to someday control and enjoy his drinking…science may one day accomplish this, but it hasn’t done so yet.”
Well, since the first meetings in 1935 and the publication of the “big book” in 1939, there have been major breakthroughs. But most AA members will never tell people that.
It appears the “disease” concept of AA has been widely accepted by the medical establishment as the result of political lobbying, not the scientific method. But many people believe, to the depth of their being, that alcoholism is a progressive and fatal disease.
That is all because of Bill Wilson and Dr. William Silkworth. Their words are taken as literal truth by AA members and read at every meeting.
It seems now that problem drinking is really a matter of behavior modification, or unlearning bad behavior and beliefs. So there is really no need to substitute drinking for anything, including AA meetings and the steps.
This is (obviously) a sore subject for me. I was in AA for years and it was, essentially, a complete waste of time and induced much misery.
I have been out nearly a year and – surprise – not in jail or a psyche ward.
But AA members will attack and demean anyone who criticizes the program. They will go from zero to sixty in no time, because I am pretty much saying the basis for their time and effort and belief is false.
There are so many similarities between AA and other mind control groups. Toxic positivity is one, as is spread the message.
It is quite a feat to unlearn years of indoctrination, but a therapist has helped, as has hearing about experiences of other ex-members.
AA literature does not say that leaving AA itself will cause disease, hospitalization or death, only that continued alcoholic drinking might do so.
Another old saying in AA is when someone goes on and on and on about what he, she or they did to them they might be told to “Get off the pity-pot.” Good advice imo.
Exactly, Priscilla. I track fully. “Obviously, the two are very different, but learning about other mind co(ntrol) groups” helps a person to de-program from their own. What you describe about the indoctrination, the frequent socializing, the enforced group think, group participation, “the world outside here is harsh and foreboding and you will not thrive or survive [without us]” is very real.
As a former C of S member, I got a lot out of the Leah & Mike “Aftermath” episode on Jehovah’s Witnesses. Something about sitting in an outside point of view, it gave me a clearer view of the tactics of Scientology. I would hear the people’s stories and think, “Why would a group do that (that is terrible)?!” Then my next thought, “Hang on: That’s what Scientology does all the time and is considered normal.” Bang. Lightbulb clicking on. So revealing and helpful.
Really appreciate your remarks here and experiences you recount concerning AA. And hear what you are saying, Richard, as well!
This is such an interesting interview and yet ANOTHER reason scientology should not be considered a religion. it is a business.
I was in this cult/business for 4 decades. EVERYTHING these two gentlemen state about how scientology and any feeder branch is run (only by L Ron Hubbard policies) is absolutely true. I saw it with my own eyes.
I completely agree that they removed Narconon International to get the income DIRECTLY.
I hope the Federal Government digs into this group of snakes and unearths the truth…then applies the penalties.
Money money money!!
Aaron and Luke: thanks for putting this together!! Really enjoyed it.
Very nice post Sarita. It’s always great to hear from someone who saw this shit with their own eyes.
Now that no commissions can be paid for referring addicts to Narconon, what will former Briefing Course Supervisor Phil Embeck do for a living? After he left the SO he made tons of money being a full time reg / referring person to Narconon. Does anyone know what Phil Embeck is doing for work now?
Pricilla,
Thanks for an inside perspective on AA. Quite interesting to hear it is cult-like.
Yes, thanks. I hope I didn’t derail the blog post. I wrote a lot. And responded to someone who took issue with my post. I have to disagree with a lot of what he wrote. AA will definitely tell you it is the only way to treat alcoholism and members face dire consequences if they leave. I’m don’t know what “evidence” to present, other than my own experience.
Again, I hope MR isn’t bummed out about at all the talk of AA.
Peace
Hey Priscilla, I’ve been posting here for a very long time and I would bet dollars to donuts that Mike is not upset with you in the least.
Quite the contrary, I would wager he was very pleased with your posts. I know that I certainly was.
Please come back and tell us more of your experiences?
I wonder if they will try to play the “we-are-a-religion-based-non-religious-secular-rehabilitation-program-so-you-can’t-regulate-us” card.
They’ve certainly tried to have it both ways in the past on other issues.
The mind reels…
Really enjoyed listening to this. Very happy about the new law regarding kickbacks for sending someone to a rehab facility.
How about a law that Eliminates Kickbacks in Religions. Wouldn’t that be great.
But, Mary, that wouldn’t apply to scientology, since anyone involved in the enterprise to any degree KNOWs it’s not any sort of religion, except using a definition that includes the mafia and KKK as well.
Great work Aaron and Luke. FSM commissions are a root of evil in Scientology. This applies to Narconon and the OT levels. When these FSM’s can earn 15%, they push services even though they know Scientology does not work.
Exactly.
I have to respectfully disagree with the claim narconon was the only rehab that directly recruited from former patients who had little training. There are many, many rehabs who hire freshly graduated clients who have no formal education or training in addiction treatment. So-called “sober living” homes are a perfect example of this. People pay a few thousand dollars a month to share a room with several others, eat slop, and live in “recovery.”
The rehab / recovery industry is rife with corruption. Narconon certainly engages in abuse / illegality, but they’re certainly not the only ones. I attended AA since 1997 and have seen the same practices through the “twelve steps.”
Steve Hassan won’t call AA a cult, but he does mention it in his website as a group with many cult-like aspects. It is extremely psychologically damaging and, like Scientology, doesn’t work and relies on a placebo effect and self-fulfilling prophecy from its members.
In Steven Hassan’s own words, per his web site:
Hassan’s general disclaimer about groups appearing on his list of organizations:
“The fact that these groups appear on this list does not necessarily mean they are a destructive mind control group. They appear because we have received inquiries and have established a file on the group.”
Hassan’s specific assessment of AA:
“We are of the opinion that AA has helped many individuals in their fight against alcoholism, but we include this group because we believe there are other points of view; vital information and experiences that should be shared. The below links use terms we do not use ourselves; deprogramming and brainwashing to name a couple. And we certainly do NOT [emphasis his] think that AA fits the BITE mind control model. [Hassan’s “model of authoritarian control”]
If you have an alcohol or drug problem, you should definitely seek out professional help. If you have been attending AA and it has been helpful to you, we do NOT suggest you abruptly stop going and change paths. There are many other successful approaches to helping people with drug and alcohol problems and we intend to add them to this page. If you have information you think should be included please send it to us.”
Yes, that’s what I was referring to. It seems AA had a lot of credibility with people. It’s unfortunate because it harms many people.
I’d argue that all forms of behavioural modification (whether psychological or ideological) and certainly all varieties of talk therapy rely on both potency of belief/placebo effect and external validation.
Your cost-benefit analysis (and what you consider “damaging”) will obviously differ from the person who considers the submission to perceptual (re)conditioning a reasonable price to pay for being drug free or an operating thetan.
One ethical dilemma I see is that a placebo, by definition, is deceptive. The potential for value arguably diminishes to the extent the individual is wise to the mechanics of his own manipulation. To not have this knowledge prior to “treatment” is vital for any possibility of success. But how can you make an appropriate cost-benefit analysis/well-informed decision without it?
I’ve been to rehab twice and I can say the practice of kickbacks for referrals is widespread in the recovery Industry. Specifically, I’ve seen people paid to go into a detox center or rehab. The insurance payout for these places is incredible.
I fortunately never came across a narconon facility. If I hear anything, I will let you know.
I know this is a Scientology blog, but AA has effectively hijacked the treatment industry with its own ideas of how to help the addicted. If there is even a “disease”
of addiction at all.
It’s basically faith healing, with confessionals and quack advice from sponsors whose aim is to indoctrinate people into the AA program.
We’re the Narcinon deaths from the sauna treatment? Sounds awful. If my post is too off-topic I apologize.
The book The US of AA talks about AA’s courtship of doctors and lobbyists to get medical establishments to accept the twelve steps as a treatment model. It has no basis in competent research but, unfortunately, still is widely accepted.
Thanks again, Mike, for the great article and video. Sorry to talk about AA, but it’s a group that has permeated the treatment industry and has many cult-like aspects.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Narconon#Deaths
Since today’s blog has attracted a couple of lengthy posts about AA and how it may or may not compare to Narconon, the recovery industry, cults, or scientology, I feel compelled to offer my own (admittedly lengthy) counterpoint. If this comparison is not of interest to you, dear comment reader, please forgive my digression and feel free to skip it. It’s all good…
Since a commenter extended today’s subject to AA, a few points are in order. Let me qualify myself: I have achieved 27 years of recovery through AA. It would be no exaggeration to say that I owe it my life. I also have volunteered helping a sizable number of people achieve lasting sobriety (by their assessment, not mine alone) without accepting anything in return. Finally, I have seen the good, the bad and the ugly in the recovery industry on many occasions.
I am NOT an AA zealot. I haven’t been to a meeting in years. That’s on me, not on AA. I wouldn’t hesitate for even a moment to go back if I felt the need or if I could help another person start their recovery journey. Unlike cultic groups, I know that the door is always open to come and go as I please.
The claim that “AA has effectively hijacked the treatment industry” strikes me as on par with saying that Apple has hijacked the cell phone industry, i.e. a party is being blamed for their success and influence. The difference being that Apple is aggressively fighting for market share and maximizing profits. There is no evidence for AA doing such a thing. In fact AA “Traditions” proactively OPPOSE “promotion.” The attitude is “we’re here; come by if you want, or not.” There are no infomercials, no online success stories, no tricky web sites. People arrive by word of mouth, recommendation by medical professionals. It’s strictly voluntary. (One exception: Courts may order offenders to attend AA. This is on the courts, not on AA which neither promotes this practice nor benefits from it in any way.)
The organization also refuses financial donations of any major size (Last I knew, it would reject all donations greater than $200).
“It’s basically faith healing, with confessionals and quack advice from sponsors whose aim is to indoctrinate people into the AA program.” While there is some truth in this statement, it’s largely shaped by a wording that suggests negative conclusions. Yes, AA is a “spiritual program” but many people find help simply by using it as a support group. No one is ever coerced to avail themselves of the spiritual aspects of it (“work the steps”). And if they do, there are no financial motives on AA’s side to promote this. “Sponsors” volunteer their time to help others newer to recovery by sharing their recovery experience; they do not claim professional expertise. How is that “quack?”
“It has no basis in competent research but, unfortunately, still is widely accepted.” AA’s basis lies in the experience, first published in late 1930s, of a group of people that was largely unserved by the medical industry. Its claim is not “research” in a clinical sense but the sharing of collective “experience.” No doubt, scholarly advances have been made in the 80 years since then. But the program remains effective enough to this day to attract people as well as the endorsement by medical professionals. Finally, the program explicitly states that it’s not the only one, that others may have great things to offer and encourages people to seek professional help (including medications) if they are so inclined.
I am writing this because this blog (which I have been reading for quite a few years) has an audience that is deeply concerned about cults. The commenter claims–without providing evidence–that AA has “many cult-like aspects.” If AA WERE a cult, or even just a cultish group, it would stand out as unique among cults. To name just a few distinctions:
– The organization has no financial motive; attendance is free
– There is no motive or means for exploiting members’ labor; volunteer positions (coffee making, meeting secretary, etc) are limited to 6 months
– Its indiviudal groups are autonomous; they’re NOT subject to central leadership
– There is no leader or group of leaders to whom allegiance is given
– There are no fundraisers or membership campaigns; literature is distributed at cost or free (if you claim that you can’t spare a few bucks) without any pressure that you have to have it
– There is not even a formal membership; the organization has no idea who attends or doesn’t; no one is solicited to provide contact information; all that is known, and to the local group only, is your first name (real or made up)
– Anyone is free to come and go as they please; no one is chased or even criticized for leaving
– AA specifically states that it is NOT “the only way.” You find something better, go for it
– No one is compelled to subscribe to a belief system. A common AA cliche is “take what you need and leave the rest”
– You can come and simply hang out or “work the Steps”–it’s up to you
– You can attend a faith-based meeting, or go to an atheist meeting–up to you
How much more anti-cult can an organization (to use the term loosely) possibly get? How much less of a profit motive could it possibly have? How could it minimize control over people’s lives even more?
“The rehab / recovery industry is rife with corruption.” I agree with the poster there, although I have to balance this with the observation that many have been helped by it as well. This industry has many selfless, idealistic contributors who work for free or for pathetic wages. But there are also some profiteers.
Narconon did NOT pioneer corruption. As so many scientology endeavors, it simply entered a market where there are opportunities to exploit human suffering, clueless regulators and government oversight hampered by the sheer magnitude of the problem.
However, unlike scientology/Narconon, AA is NOT part of the rehab/recovery industry in ANY way. AA–by its own charter– does NOT operate treatment centers, sober living homes, 30-day programs or any other paid ventures. Nor does it endorse any of them. Whatever profiteering and corruption exist in the recovery industry is in no way related to the AA movement.
I’m it going to hit all your points. AA members actively lobbied the medical field to get AA recognized as a disease, without any scientific basis. If AA were actually effective for everyone, the rooms would be overflowing. It works for some, but it’s claims to work for everyone who “works it” are false. My issue is that AA is the default and mainstream choice for addiction treatment, to the detriment of those who are better served by other options.
My problem with AA is that they convince you, or try unceasingly, to convince you that a member who leaves AA will drink and die. That is pretty fucked purging to tell role who just want help.
While members are not forced to stay, AA tells members if they drink they are at fault for not applying the steps or working hard enough. Criticism of AA is rejected and the one raising the issues is attacked as bitter or ignorant of AA principles.
AA members will say it’s a spiritual program and a member can have a higher power that can be anything, but the steps are Christian-based and rigidly applied in most meetings.
AA says, when you join, “we’re just passing along our experience. Take what you want and leave the rest.” But once you’re in, you are expected to “work the steps” exactly as directed by sponsor and the “big book.”
If someone drinks, it is their fault and not an issue with the steps. Members are told, if they are “real alcoholics” they will essentially die if they leave the program – surely return to binge drinking. “Jails, institutions, or death” is the phrase used.
There are scores of AA lingo that members spout that are essentially “thought stopping” doctrine used to address a member’s problems. AA members from around the world end up sounding exactly alike in their thoughts and phraseology.
There is no monetary commitment, but a substantial amount of time and, most important, thought reshaping. Members are directed to confess their past resentments and even their sexual history (“inventory”) to a sponsor. The sponsor and members with “time” will direct “newcomers” in how to behave and think in treatment of this “disease” described in the AA literature.
AA and the twelve steps are used by 90% of treatment centers. Patients / clients / whatever are bought to AA meetings, which increases AA membership. It is a kind of spiritual pyramid scheme, and AA frequently goes into jails and hospitals and psyche wards to recruit new members.
AA members are told, time and again, if they don’t follow the program or leave AA they will surely drink and “to drink is to die.” So, this is a pretty heavy form of indoctrination.
AA is similar to a cult in that the steps are meant to reshape the thinking and behavior of members. AA members are told to check in with their sponsors on a daily basis and must be willing to take their advice on many different aspects of their lives.
AA meetings follow a format where many negative emotions are dismissed, again with thought stopping and trite cliches. There are usually one or two members with “long term sobriety” at each meeting who dole out wisdom and dismiss questions from newcomers who are seen as ignorant. Time in AA is extremely important, and there is a hierarchy wherein members with time can be excused of some quite nasty behavior. There is an open secret about the Thirteenth Step in AA where a member with time will date a newcomer who is usually vulnerable and off-kilter from whatever turmoil led them to AA. It’s not illegal, but it’s predatory and sometimes leads to violence. I attended AA for twelve years and there was a lot of predatory behavior in the rooms that was ignored if the perpetrator has long-term sobriety time. I sat through many meetings where there was a “group conscience” about everything from coffee to snacks to the format, but never about expelling a sexual predator from a meeting.
AA doesn’t seek money from its members, but it does seek thought control, time, and recruitment of other members.
There are many contradictions in AA such as “attraction rather than promotion,” but AA does seek née members through meetings at jails, psyche wards, hospitals, etc “hospitals and institutions” programs.
AA members will very angrily defend against any criticism of AA, often labeling the person as sick, a “chronic relapser,” or “constitutionally incapable of being honest with themselves others.” Any failure of the program is always on the member, never AA. This wouldn’t be so objectionable if members weren’t told that, without AA, they will drink and destroy their lives.
The systematic messaging that members have a disease that will kill them without AA and the steps makes this organization very dominant in the lives of its members. People who come to AA are scared and desperate. AA takes their traumatic experiences a d tells them most of the things that happened are their fault and that, on a daily basis, members must look at their motives to see where they are being “selfish, self seeking, or dishonest.” This relentless messaging that the member is sick or somehow underhanded creates stress and depression for many members. I’m only just realized how depressed and utterly defeated I felt in AA. I have since spoken with many others who feel the same way.
AA is pervasive in popular culture and the medical field. There is no scientific proof it works, except for anecdotal experiments by members who like the program. Those who do not relate to AA are left feeling deep despair, since 1) AA said the only way to get and stay sober is through them and 2) it has become the default treatment model in the US. Just because something is the default doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. It just means AA members such as Marty Mann in the 1950’s, was able to influence the right persons through extensive lobbying.
The breaking down of the will, the rote and repeated messaging of doom, the confessional nature of the steps, the focus on shaming the individual who does not do well in the program, the control, and the dependence of many members on meetings and the rituals of AA raise many troubling issues. Many people have left and report deep emotional disturbance from
Their experience.
Obviously, someone who feels AA helped them will joy agree at all with what I wrote. However, that does not diminish my points.
So, while AA does not share the abuses and financial predation of Scientology, it does share other similarities.
Excuse all typos and bad grammar.
Finally, in all my time in AA, never ever did I hear a member say or read in the literature that there are alternatives to AA. In fact, AA claims to be the only treatment for the “real alcoholic.”
AA members will only ever say, “go to more meetings, go to different meetings, do 90 in 90 meetings, get a new sponsor.” An AA member, and nowhere in AA literature, is there any mention of other treatment models. In fact, AA will tell new members 1) they have a disease, 2) the disease is progressive and fatal and 3) AA and the steps are the only remedy to this “spiritual malady and physical allergy” to alcohol.
This is what’s so destructive about AA: the message that it is the only salvation. But it isn’t, and not everyone will realize that. It took me years to question this message and see there are other treatment options. I feel like an idiot for staying so long, but I truly believed I would be lost without AA. This is my truth. And this is the truth for many people I’ve met and spoken with who have left. So, if someone has a different experience and got sober in AA and through the twelve steps, great. But don’t say my experience isn’t accurate or real because it was. And was for other people who believed in their hearts they had no choice but to submit to AA doctrine.
And, frankly, I would think someone sympathetic to members of thought control groups would be able to understand this and accept that not everyone had the same experience of the same organization.
Priscilla,
I think you make some great points. I do have multiple friends who’ve attained decades of sobriety thanks to AA or church-based off-shoots. I also know a few who’ve done Celebrate Recovery.
What I noticed is that when you get a group of people together who are all hurting, who are more likely to do things (good or bad) to a greater extreme, then people change their life – they/we become as zealous about “the program” as we were about our drug of choice.
I’ve been to some GREAT groups, which tended to be in larger cities with senior members who have also had therapy and distance from the mindset any of us get into when we’re addicted to a substance, a person or even an organization. I think that’s why many in recovery are drawn to this subject matter – we understand that prison of the mind that makes one feel powerless and then likely to hand the reins to someone/something else.
Ive been in some extremely dysfunctional groups (both AA & CR) that were, in fact, VERY cult like! And it tended to be groups where members were younger, newer to recovery and so while they weren’t actively using/drinking, they were just as fanatical about the group as they were prior with their addiction.
Todd, One of my closest friends and “bonus-dad” has nearly 30yrs recovery and would likely tell his story almost identically to you. When I met him in a program, it was as you described and was an amazing experience.
In more recent times, much research has been done on the clinical efficacy of such programs, why the relapse percentages are so consistently high in most any program (12-Step, therapy-based, etc.). Recent research has also shown the surge in Behavioral Modification approach and its associated approaches as well as understanding the impact of Neurotransmitters and how to change the “path” that lead many to repeat the same negative behaviors. The efficacy rates therein tend to be markedly higher and help not only with addiction, but mental health issues, unhealthy patterns and so on.
So there are definitely many Addiction Med Dr’s who now understand that 12-Step isn’t THE tool in the toolbox, but one of many and what works for some won’t work for all. I’ve had experience with both sides and the latter was DEFINITELY far more effective for me vs the former. The other concern – which is a HUGE issue with Narconon, but also many 12-Step programs is that it can easily become “the blind leading the blind” because you have groups of people addressing brokenness in differing stages, different tools and widely varying emotional maturity-levels. So I can attest some groups become scarily cult-like. That led me to research it to death and seek help from an Addiction Med Dr. (board certified specialist) so the approach was more individualized and therefore, more effective for me… it’s also the Analyst in me – I research everything. ;P
ALL of that to say, I think you and Priscilla both had valid experiences, just on varying sides of the coin that is the recovery industry. That’s what makes Narconon SO dangerous… when people are genuinely trying to do the right thing and extended family is desperate- it creates a vacuum that bad-actors like Narconon go in and exploit. They aren’t the only ones doing it, but because “what works for you…” along with false success rates, they are extremely enticing to desperate, hurting people.
PS – Mike I am SO thankful to hear of investigation into kickbacks, as who knows what else might become apparent as authorities focus on just one aspect.
The proactive steps you, Leah, Aaron, etc. are taking, then spawning more into becoming tangibly involved (Stefani Hutchison, Kat DeLaRue and SO many I don’t mean to omit) is SO powerful. I think back to how exciting Going Clear coming out was… the frustration of authorities & media complicit in ignorance of abuse – how it feels “nothing ever changes.” And yet look at where things are today… a foundation to help, resources and the therapy community beginning to understand, etc. I don’t know that any of it could have foreseen this even just 5yrs ago when GC was a massive undertaking!
THANK YOU!
@Todd Cray, I appreciate your viewpoint and recounting of your experiences concerning AA. When I read it, it made me think of experiences people have in Toastmaster clubs. These are all around the world to help people combat stage fright and become more skilled at a running a meeting and keeping it on-time.
The experience one is going to have in Toastmasters is hugely influenced by the people in their individual club. I am sure, similar for joining the Lions Club chapter in one’s community. It will be different from a Lions Club in different community.
A mix of good and bad, influenced by the character and education of the people in leadership roles within that particular club or chapter. Frankly, this applies to Scientology as well. I only ever had excellent experiences in auditing (Scientology 1:1 counseling). Being auditor-trained, I knew what to look for and I consider I have an educated perspective what a session looks like when the tech is “in” and the auditor (counselor) is operating off the Auditor’s Code, which is really the code of a civilized human being.
There are many positive parts of my experiences in Scientology that I take with me. What prompted me to leave was I hit a Law of Diminishing Returns point where the bad outweighed the good in such a stunning and irreversible way. I had to say (as so many have): “Enough already.” Appreciate your remarks here.
Hubbard didn’t design Scientology to outlast him.
As you say Mike hubbard policy absolutely supports the FSM commissions.
Without them, no one is motivated to take people to narconons.
Then they will find – if they have not already done so – some other way to get the commissions to those Fsms. Orgs are also FSMs. Maybe they give this money a few rounds and then go out somewhere else and pay it.
Simple, but very effective understanding of Scientology’s policy. That crap required blind devotion and complete demoralization of one’s own sense of right & wrong when Hubbard was alive. Let alone now where’s it’s simply a directive for a criminal enterprise relying on past, murky glories & lies to fool people. Either way, Scientology has always been a fucked up cult with deceit at its heart.