For readers of this blog who have decided scientology is not for them, this posting will be of no or very limited interest. But for those who still consider themselves scientologists, those who are still “on the fence” or “under the radar” this is information that is absolutely for you. It is FACTS about what goes on inside the church of scientology under the guise of “bringing spiritual freedom” and “uniting families.”
Ronit and Yossi sent this message out to all their contacts yesterday. I have waited to publish this until after they sent it out in the hope it might reach more of the people that are its intended audience before the black PR, whispering campaign against them begins for overtly telling their story.
We have some great news to announce: Ronit is back in the chair auditing again! Surprising? Probably not, however, very exciting!
Ronit became an auditor in the early 90’s and always wanted and had the purpose to help mankind to go free, using LRH Tech.
First, allow us to give you our background in Scientology. Ronit cognited that Scientology technology works from the get-go, when she first found out about it early in 1985. Her appetite for more knowledge and tech grew as she advanced on the Bridge first through Processing and then Training. With each progress the desire to become a full time auditor and help others to go free became stronger and stronger. In 1990 while doing KTL at Flag, she first signed The Sea Org Contract.
Although not activated the contract, she became very active in the field. Ronit audited over 1000 hours of Book 1, delivered Basic Courses, active with the OT Committee, part time Mission Staff and gave 100’s of assist to friends and family in the field in Israel and the US. Yossi started his Scientology route in San Francisco in the end of 1980.
He instantly cognited the Tech works doing the TRs as part of the Comm Course. Within 3 years he went Clear and through OT IV. He loved the training and became a NED Auditor and did Admin training as well. In the late 80’s he went to Flag and completed all three L’s and in 1992-1993 did OT V, OT VI and got on OT VII. All along he was on lines at local orgs and did Ethics Specialist course and Data Series Evaluator Course. Later on he was awarded as one of the top Flag FSMs.
In 1997 we moved to Clearwater, FL., to go up the Bridge: Ronit from OT IV to get onto OT 7 and to do The Saint Hill Special Briefing Course (SHSBC) and Yossi to continue on OT 7 and more Auditor Training, including Flag Pro Metering course and started the SHSBC. By the end of 1997, Ronit was auditing at home on Solo NOTs, finished Flag only Pro-Metering course and was on the SHSBC.
Life was good, but not challenging enough, since the “bug” to be a full time auditor in the Sea Organization (SO) just grew with each win and gain. Desperately desiring to fulfill that purpose, she signed again and at this time activated the contract in March of 2000. Within few months, she completed the entire Training lineup with flying colors and under checksheet time and became a Class IX Auditor at the Flag AO. It was a dream come true! She was truly on purpose helping LRH. With great professionalism, knowledge and dedication she quickly became one of the top auditors at the AO, and was hand-selected by RTC to audit celebrities, VIPs, top Sea Org senior executives and was one of the 5 auditors, (at that time out of 80 Class IX auditors at Flag) to get trained by Senior C/S Int to deliver the Solo NOTs EP Check.
She was a very high producer as an auditor, with an average of over 40 hours a week, (considered Affluence Condition for auditors at Flag). The love for LRH and the Tech was expanding with each session and it seemed there was no limit to that growth. There was also expansion on the second dynamic.
In 2003, Yossi has joined the SO and became a Solo NOT’s D of P (supervising about 400 Solo NOTs auditors in Europe, Australia, New Zealand, South Africa, Israel and several VIPs). Our children were close by and all seemed ideal. Ronit had many privileges because of her high production. Life seemed well in the SO at that time as we were ignoring outpoints and arbitraries.
In 2002, Ronit got Leave of Absences (LOA) for her older son Bar-Mitzvah, the most important event in Jewish tradition next to wedding when a boy becomes a man at the age of 13. (She got through the entire LOA routing form which included a security check, finding a replacement and other required items, which took her about 3 months to get through, but we finally got okayed and approved through the line up of executives, up to the captain’s and RTC’s okayed to go). We were all very happy to be able to go to Israel, It was such a great, spiritual occasion for Ronit’s father, to Bar Mitzvah his eldest, first-born grandson, that he rented a hall, entertainment, catering and invited over 200 close friends and family to this major, religious and traditional event.
Upon our arrival in Israel, Ronit was called by her Director of Processing to return to Flag immediately to get back to auditing. When she explained that, she just arrived and there is no possibility to return because it would create a major upset to the entire family, the calls persisted on a daily basis. Her mother, who is not a Scientologist and does not speak any English, was called several times a day by a Hebrew speaking SO staff to get Ronit back to Flag, telling her that it’s very important to get back to Flag no matter what, including her first grandson’s Bar Mitzvah. It became totally unbearable and created a lot of antagonism and a very negative environment, we did all we could to exclude her mother from the enturbulation, but the phone calls kept coming to her house, asking Ronit to return back to Flag, and Ronit’s parents did not forget that incident. As Ronit was unwilling to create that effect on her family and leave before the Bar Mitzvah Celebrations, she ignored the calls and orders and stayed, despite the threats.
The antagonism from Ronit’s parents towards the Sea Org started at that point.
A similar situation occurred 3 years later, when the entire family went again to Israel for the younger son Bar Mitzvah. This time it was worse, 3 of us had to go through the LOA Routing form (Our older son was in the S.O. already), get Security Check, find replacements and get approved through your senior to the Captain FSO and RTC.
Again Ronit’s father rented an entire restaurant, entertainment and rabbi and invited over 200 guests to the celebration (specifically to Ronit’s father as he is religious). We each requested three weeks of LOA. (Per LRH, each staff is allowed 3 weeks LOA a year). Yossi’s direct senior held his CSW for over 2 months, until he finally passed it with some comments that his trip should be reduced to one week and when it reached his senior, the Solo I/C, who is head of the Department, she reduced it to 3 days, excluding the day of the event. Can you imagine the father of the Bar Mitzvah Boy is not present at his son’s celebration? (Needless to say the 3 days included the round trip flights, which would not even allow him to be a whole day in Israel)
By pure postulate, Yossi was able to get his CSW approved by the captain and we are all packed to go. But the night before our flight the Solo I/C verbally cancelled his approved CSW and forbade him from leaving, but he was determined, took his chances and left the next day.
Again, like 3 years before that, Ronit, while staying at her mother’s, was bombarded with phone calls from Flag to return to the AO to audit a celebrity. That continued on a daily basis. Yossi was called several times as well to return to his post. It was extremely humiliating and degrading to be treated this way. After working for over 3 months to get the CSW approved, getting all the required items completed, with all the seniors’ and executives’ signatures and approval, the approved CSW was completely ignored again and the phone calls started pouring in every hour of the day to return to Flag with threats of what will happen if we were not coming back right away.
The family in Israel did not forget that and it added another antagonism and unpleasant incident with the SO. Upon returning to Flag, Yossi and Ronit were removed from their post and were forced to do Lower Conditions. That incident caused further antagonism with Ronit’s parents. Her mother was very vocal about her upset; how come the SO does not respect her religion, to Bar Mitzvah her 2 grandsons. (Violation of Way to Happiness “Respect the Religion of Others”).
Additional major outpoints were observed.Yossi will name a few from the Solo HGC, at the Flag AO.
- Enormous stats push on every Thursday before 2 PM. Example. A senior Exec walks into Solo NOTs C/S office and demands the folder being programmed immediately for few questions on a new arrival. The random urgency would not occur on a usual basis, except it was Advanced Tech VSD stat, which is RTC’s statistic. The public was a new arrival and had only 1 hour to complete his intensive. He went in session and thus was counted as an Arrival Stat and the hour was spent in session thus the entire intensive was counted as Advanced Tech VSD Stat.
- One time, out of several, all Solo NOTs Ds of P were ordered to stay all night to collect backlog of 6 months C/Sing charges from the Solo NOTs public, which is not the Stats of D of P. (This is statistics of Div.3) The execs made the Ds of P responsible for Treasury not collecting the C/Sing.
- I was personally called from my study to go for drilling. The order came from CMO staff member. She entered the courseroom, spoke to the supervisor, who told me I have to go with CMO for some drilling, violating the HCO PL What is a Course Room.
- Our younger son, was in the Cadet Org, was pushed to join the S.O. The SO recruiter told him at numerous occasions, he is not a good person and constantly invalidated him for not willing to join. On one Thursday before 2pm, the SO recruitment pushed him again to sign for the SO. Although still a minor, 15 years old, and needing the parents written signature, the recruiter made him sign and route to EPF, in complete violation of Flag Order re: Minors in the SO and violation of the law of the land. Only after Ronit’s intervention, who had to take the risk of walking off post to handle the upset and him returning back to the Cadets.
- Personally observed fist fights on several occasions between Solo NOTs C/S and a senior executive in complete violation of HCOB Ivory Tower. And of course the Law of the Land.
- Ordering ALL Solo Not’s Ds of P to be on rice and beans, for at least a week, meaning, all you can eat that week is rice and beans, no other food is allowed and “Pigs Berthing” where you sleep on the floor with your clothing in the most dirty room you could imagine. It was a punishment for not getting enough arrivals into the AO, which again is not the statistics of Solo NOT’s D’s of P. That happened several times.
- Staying till 3-4 AM, working 20 hours a day, to sell lectures and the Basic Books to meet unreal quota. If the unreal quota was not made, no one could go home. That was a routine that occurred with every major release. Incase you personally meet the quota, but the group didn’t, you still had to stay to help the group to make the quota. Again in violation of LRH Flag Order (FO) regarding Sleep and Rest for staff in the SO and Punishing Upstats.
- The entire Solo NOTs HGC (Solo Nots C/Ss and Ds of P and all Admin personnel) was kept in a Group Lower Condition for 4 months, as a punishment. The Solo I/C did everything possible to keep us in Lower Conditions. No matter what we did, we could not get out of lower conditions, disregarding your own personal Stat.
- There was an “arrival engram” in the Solo NOT’s HGC. Not once we were ordered to stay overnight to get arrivals. Although not the actual stat or sub-stat (arrivals to the Solo NOTs HGC), the quota had to be made or “No Buses Home”. At times it would create Stat Push when we were ordered to get the Pre-OTs to come earlier, even one month earlier, for their 6 months checks. An example. In a given week, I was upstat on all my major Stats that measured my production, but there was not enough arrivals, my LIBS (Liberty, by taking Saturday off) CSW was disapproved because of the low arrivals of that week. That was a wrong target. Again, Punishing the Upstats, which is a violation of LRH Policy.
There are some other outpoints, Ronit observed on her Post as a Class IX auditor at the Flag AO 5 HGC.
- Thursday morning stats push. Habitually, on Thursday morning, RTC ran the production in the HGC, bypassing the regular lines, and forcing auditors to go back in session to complete the intensive hours with no regards if the Pre OT was on a win or not, so the stats of Advanced Tech VSD could be counted. If the Pre OT, finished his 6 months check, or Program before the intensive was completed, RTC stormed into the C/S office ordering the C/S to add more to the program, or add Security Check questions so the VSD target could be met. Actually, not caring for the Pre OT case at all, but ripping the Pre OT off, and wasting hours and intensives.
- Another example of ripping off the public. On Thursday’s after 2 pm, if for some reason the intensive was not made (minutes to hours short), the AO Tech Service Team were pulling back folders (from the folders’ warehouse) on that Pre OT, and going through the worksheets, looking for mistakes in the hour’s calculation in the folders, in order to find the missing hours necessary to make the VSD target. This was done on a regular basis and was known to all the senior execs of the Flag Land Base. This is also a violation of Pre OT’s confidentiality reserved to religious counseling.
- A Tech Page in the Flag AO, while being on post, was physically assaulted by a Senior HCO staff member, which caused him to fall down. Violation of the law of the land!
- In 2005 the entire MAA Staff at the Flag AO, was ordered to do a Boot Camp (disciplinary action to “stiffen” their discipline, so they would be “unreasonable” and tough with the AO Public pre-OTs). Several of them were minors, under 18. For weeks and weeks with no end, they were kept on rice and beans and pigs berthing. They were sleeping 3 – 4 hours a night, going to post at 7 am and after post at night, they were made to do some physical work. They were not allowed to talk to any other staff, even to family members at the SO. There is no LRH reference on boot camp, or such disciplinary program, and was basically “slave making machine”. Another violation of the law of the land.
- On several occasions I saw the new Captain FSO, get physical with the Deputy Captain of Arrivals for the Flag AO, by shoving him to the wall. Usually, regarding some low stats issue. Later on, the Deputy Captain of Arrivals did the same physical abuse to his junior, the Tech Sec of the Flag AO. Then the Flag AO Tech Sec screamed out of his lungs, verbally abused and invalidated the Director of Tech Services, the D of P, or the Solo I/C. It winded down to the Tech Pages, those dedicated teenagers, who are at the bottom of the Org Board, knowing nothing about having wins or gains from the tech, but mere invalidations from their abused senior. The “Contagion of Aberration” spiraling down the command chain was a routine in the Flag AO.
- The downfall of Flag started around 2004, where a new post was introduced: The Ethics and Image MAA’s! Having hardly any Bridge of their own, they were trained with one purpose in mind, to bring the staff members down tone by using threats, unusual punishments, invalidation and intimidation. LRH says in one of the definition of “Invalidation” – “How invalidated can one get, Dead!” and that’s what they were doing. I remember one instance when an Ethics and Image MAA asked one of our Tech Pages in AO5, who was a minor, how come he was 45 minutes in the bathroom, and he finally admitted after a long investigation, that he went to take a nap there because he was too tired. That’s after having no sleep and normal food for weeks! The department of Tech Services was in lower conditions, pigs berthing and rice and beans for at least 12 weeks. At one time, at 2 am all the Tech Pages of the AO, some of them minors, were forced to jump into the water of the Golf of Mexico in order to clean the built up of algae and dirt on the retaining wall by the Sandcastle, as a punishment, justified as a disciplinary program. They were kept in lower conditions for 4 or 5 months at a time.
- Teens Sea Org staffs, minors, suppose to get their High School education on Saturday and Sunday. On many occasions, they were not allowed by their Senior. This is a violation of LRH and the Law of the Land.
- Another out point that occurred is that entire Division 7 , the Executive Division of The FSO (Flag Service Org) and Flag Crew was in lower conditions and in pigs berthing for about 6 weeks. This occurred around 2007.
Ronit has observed on many occasions that RTC personnel, decides on their own personal feelings or orders from higher level if someone, public or staff, approved to complete an OT level, or get onto the next OT Level and not follow LRH Tech on an individual basis. To give only a few instances:
- When a Senior FLB Exec completed Solo NOTs, (I was her auditor at that time) I heard an RTC Rep at that time, saying in a very emotional angry matter, that she would personally see that this Exec would never be okayed to go to the ship to do her OTVIII. No technical reason was given, just HE&R.
- Pre OT of mine, who was on the lineup to complete Solo NOTs, could not complete because she was wearing mostly black cloths. The person has achieved all technical requirements to complete OT VII and that order was arbitrary. Ironically, in 2007, RTC uniform was all black.
- Another Pre OT could not complete Solo NOTs, because she was overweight. Again the person had the necessary Tech requirements to complete Solo NOTs. Arbitrary!
- Another Pre OT of mine that I have audited came to complete Solo NOTs after having all technical requirements, could not complete, per RTC, because her husband was not supportive of COB’s Ideal Org strategies. All that was done, in this matter, and in other similar instances, was to waist their intensives with a Security Check, until the person had to leave Flag due to lack of additional funds.
- Another Pre OT came to complete Solo NOTs and was not approved to complete just because his daughter inquired COB “wrongly”…. There was no LRH Refs and again he had achieved the technical requirement to complete Solo NOTs. The Pre-OT was sent home not given the true reason, but was instructed to continue with Solo Not’s, which put him on a constant spin. I can write a book, describing these crimes that occurred on the Solo NOTs EP CK line. I was there for about 8 years.
While at Flag AO, Ronit observed that many good, dedicated staff disappearing or dying. “Someone actively getting rid of the best staff members” was an indicator of an SP per LRH reference. Few Examples that occurred in 2007-2008.
- Sometime in 2007, I learned that the Captain FSO left staff with her husband. She was a great Captain, loved and admired for her leadership by staff and public alike through her 17 years carrier as Captain FSO.
- Later, one of the Top Tech terminals on the planet, Senior C/S FSO, suddenly dying from cancer. A couple of years later he passed away at an early age.
- The Deputy Senior C/S for Flag AO, got also sick with cancer and was sent away for treatment out of the base.
- One of the top Celeb, Class IX auditor of the Flag AO, blew from post and later on routed out.
- Several other valuable veteran Class IX auditors left staff.
Throughout the years in the SO, we observed many examples of the harsh regging by Flag Land Base staff. To name a few:
- AO Reg did an un-authorized withdrawal from Flag Pre-OT account and used the money for Basic packages, about $10,000. The books were shipped to the public’s home address in Israel.
- An OT VII, Class VIII field auditor was regged by three public AO MAAs for $22,000 in order to get out of lower conditions. He was threatened by the MAA’s his IHELP license would not be renewed if he doesn’t pay. That was a very “popular” way to get out of lower conditions, by buying the way out.
- Using session data, like pc on a win to Reg the public. The session data was communicated to seniors and they forwarded to MAA’s or the top registers. At one instance the AO Tech Sec was screaming out of his lungs at a public to get a donation from him. Every Flag staff member became a Reg whether for IAS, Ideal ORG, Basics, Libraries or other Campaigns.
- One time Ronit was brought to a Celebrity’s home in Clearwater, FL for a Reg Cycle to have an Auditor’s presence, being the Celeb’s auditor. Several other times, she was brought to different location for other Celeb regging for the same reason.
- If Pre-OT’s did not agree with the donation, at times the Execs or MAA’s asked the C/Ses to add few more Sec check question.
The Charny’s left the SO in December of 2008.
Ronit’s mother and father got fed up with not being able to see or talk to their grandchildren on the phone (in order to talk to your family on the phone an MAA had to be present and listen in on your conversation with your family).
After months of no communication Ronit’s mother took out an AD in a local magazine saying that the SO is preventing her to see or talk to her family, specifically her grandchildren. That caused OSA to route the whole family out of the SO. Part of the suggested handling by an OSA Executive was that Ronit’s mother MUST do A to E Steps, in spite of the fact that she is 70 years old and NOT a Scientologist. Although no SP Declare was issued for Ronit’s mother, Ronit would not be able to audit again, unless her mother do the A to E steps. That was communicated verbally by an OSA Exec. At the same time of routing out, the same OSA Exec told us that we couldn’t live in the State of Florida.
We decided to re-locate to Portland, OR. We re-build our lives here in Portland, and still live here till today.
A year passed since we routed out, and some old friends started to reach out for auditing with Ronit. Ronit ignored the arbitrary that came from OSA and checked with Dir. Val FSO (who was In Charge of our off load from the SO) and confirmed that her Certs are valid. Several days later there was a call from the OSA Exec, (unfortunately keeping her word) forbidding Ronit to audit in the field, justifying the “Not-In-Good-Standing” status, and therefore unable to get an IHELP membership. Many good wishers tried to help with that cycle. None of them was successful, because they got into a “dead end” with OSA.
Couple of years ago, someone else was reaching to receive auditing from Ronit and again she tried to go through the proper channels, but the MAA at Flag refused to give her OK to audit with an E-Meter. No actual policy was given, just another arbitrary, (this time she could audit, but not with an E Meter). Despite the stops and threats from Flag, she delivered the auditing with a great success. It was very rewarding for her to audit again and rekindled her purpose.
The last straw that broke the camel’s back occurred several months ago, around February 2014.
One of the top FSMs in the LA area approached Ronit for help with a red tag pc receiving auditing in the field, from a field auditor in the Portland, Oregon, area. At first, Ronit tried to avoid and refused the cycle, but there was a concern for the Red Tag PC and she asked to review the folders, and agreed to take the pc. The pc refused to go to the Portland Org and it’s been already a week (7 days) since the Red Tag. Another week has gone by, Ronit finally got the folders. Ronit did the folder study and took the pc for an extensive interview. The High crimes, Suppressive Acts, Gross Out-Tech, Financial Irregularities and severe Auditor’s Code Violation were discovered: the approved auditor from I HELP, was on regular basis late, 1-1.5 hours, for a scheduled session because she went shopping for shoes at Nordstrom, or went to Whole Food to eat soup, while the pc is waiting to go in session or similar gross invalidation of the pc. The pc was VBI’s and reported no wins through out the 10 intensives of auditing, but the auditor and the C/S, just kept on hoping and not doing anything about it. The PC reported that her auditor screamed and invalidated her. The auditor was taking 30 minutes admin time for every hour of auditing, ripping the pc’s intensives, and many more examples like those. The PC was in a very bad case of over restimulation and needed a very light and gentle approach. Prior to the interview, she refused to do any more scientology. After the Interview, the PC agreed to go in session with Ronit.
This was reported and communicated to the FSM. An agreement was made, were the auditor will pay Ronit the remaining of un-used hours, as a payment. The payment did not arrive, and delays were occurring. When pulling strings, the field auditor admitted she already spent all the money and can’t pay Ronit. (This is after 120 hours of auditing and about $30,000 paid by the pc’s mother). In the mean time, the PC is still RED TAGGED, and another week has gone by.
The FSM asked IHELP WUS for help to get the field auditor return the money she received and did not deliver any service to that Red Tag PC. By the way, the pc was so upset with her auditor, she refused to speak to her on the phone.
Starr, Commanding Officer IHELP WUS, was more concerned with Ronit not being an I HELP member than the Red Tag PC. She was demanding Ronit to become an IHELP Member and adding more arbitraries, instead of helping the PC and remove the Red Tag. We are now at week 4 after Red Tag VBI’s PC and the main concern is Ronit’s IHELP membership?! The FSM, New OTVIII, Class VIII himself, being IHELP member, was completely incapable of making a common sense decision (his livelihood depended on IHELP). The PC was tramped and forgotten by the Church membership manipulation and internal arbitraries. OSA prohibited Ronit from being an IHELP Member. A very sad tale but a true one.
The Red Tag of this long travail was at 8 weeks, when I left this cycle.
This is our story.
Hundreds of Reports and KRs were written regarding the above examples with no correction or response and the conclusion we came to, was not an easy or lighthearted. Scientology saved our lives and this was due to great Tech delivered. We were able to differentiate between the Technology of Scientology and the Church of Scientology.
We, Ronit and Yossi, decided, not to be part of The Church of Scientology, a group that violates LRH Tech and Policy, who physically and mentally abuses their staff, force arbitrary rules on the public through threats and punishment: separation, disconnection, freedom of speech or association. The awakening from the Iron Fist of the management style of the Church of Scientology, was not a one day affair. The examples from our experience as mentioned above, reading Debbie Cook letter, following Marty Rathbun’s and Mike Rinder’s Blogs where other Church members share their experiences; inhumane disconnection policy that has torn families apart, constant “donation requests”, brought about our decision and announcement not to take part in the future activities of the Church of Scientology.
With this announcement, some of you will experience a sigh of relieve and joy, some of you will rush to a judgment “How did they dare to speak against The Mother Church” and will be told to disconnect from us, to cut all ties. We will miss those wonderful people, most of whom we know for long, long time.
The definition of Price of Freedom: “Constant alertness, constant willingness to fight back…” what led to our decision. LRH taught us, to think for ourselves, how not to be a slave to a group decisions or arbitraries.
I wish you execute your own due diligence and get to your own conclusion after learning all the facts. Feel free to contact us for any reason and to share your thoughts or concerns. We promise to maintain full confidentiality and discreet about the contact you have made. “THINK FOR YOURSELF” was a great campaign led in Europe.
Our decision is to continue forward the LRH vision to deliver standard Tech to pcs around the world who seek freedom through auditing without obstruction, executive interference, suppression and arbitrary policies. For the last year, Ronit has been delivering standard auditing, but this time with no interruptions, stops, arbitraries or suppression from the Church, with wonderful gains and wins from her pc’s.
Ronit is delivering the entire spectrum of Dianetics and Scientology processing, from raw pcs to Clear and all the way to the highest levels available.
Some of you might think leaving the Church would close the door to your spiritual freedom. This is not true. There are plenty of standard auditors available in the field. We have established a group and named it “Higher Spiritual Abilities”. Our doors are open for you at all times. We will keep you up-to-date with future announcements.
There is no other way to finish this letter, but with a Success Story: “I am so happy and feel so wonderful at having achieved this state of being. My attention seems so much more out on the environment and off of the body. I feel bigger and brighter with a tremendous sense of well being and my body feels more alive and alert. Ronit, thank you so much for caring and applying what LRH gave us to use. I will always remember what you have done for me. You are truly valuable being and having achieved this new state that statement is more real to me now than ever. Ron, thank you so much for this wonderful gift that gave me a new life. I will be forever grateful for all the training and auditing that I was able to receive because of the work you did.” KB
There were many more successes and happy faces for the last year. We want to thank all of our public, those of you who held our hand throughout this process and to those who accompanied us from the beginning of our journey in Scientology to this day. Those were very exciting days and we couldn’t have done it by ourselves. However, after 30 years, times have changed and now we are moving in a different direction from the Church, but forwarding LRH Tech and Policy.
Ronit and Yossi Charny
Yossi E-MAIL: email@example.com
Ronit E-Mail: firstname.lastname@example.org
Mazel Tov, Ronit and Yossi…..Amazing story….Thank you Mike Rinder for posting
Very sad story for this couple. Typical of the dwarf’s mismanagement.
The most disturbing thing is the amount of Solo NOTS cases picking up cancer.
Squirrel Tech really does you no good at all.
Beware the Freezone Techie’s who have no Certs to show you before they take up your case!!!
I know of at least three in the EU who have no Tranaing NOTs certs but deliver LOL their version of NOTS.
God help the PRe OT’s they get hold of.
Could you explain what LOL means other than Lots of Laughs without getting into anything confidential?
Please do not take offence but if you are aware that readers of this blog have decided Scientology is no longer for them, why post their insane, snidey, nasty backbiting insanities on a regular basis.
Surely their place (if they have one) is the Ex- Scn message board which is jam packed with such lunatics.
All I am sure the result of unhandled charge due to out Tech, but do we have to put up with it al the time?
Some of us actually had Standard Tech and continue (thanks to the VERY few)to have it and actually make gains and see real results.
I am sorry for those who don’t make any gains but there are reasons for this and they should simply get it sorted.
If it isn’t Scientology it isn’t fun yes?
Mike Rinder says
I dont take offence.
I have stated a number of times that I don’t think it is healthy to cut out discourse and viewpoints. So long as the person is civil and sincere I tend to let them say what they want.
Honestly, the idea that any other perspective is just wrong and should not be allowed reeks of how the RCS seeks to keep the sheeple under control. After all, they would tell the sheeple that YOUR comments are unacceptable and must not be read.
You don’t have to read what people write. You can skip right over those comments if you wish.
But I think it is healthy to see what everyone has to say and confront the reality of it. It’s not going away because you it is censored.
Mike – that was a great explanation for hiatus57. Yes, we can skim over / not read the comments that we don’t want to, or necessarily agree with. It is healthy to be open to what others have to say because life is a journey of evolving and learning. Blogs exist for the purpose of exchanging thoughts, ideas, beliefs and information. No-one is forced to read them or communicate through them. They can freely opt out whenever they wish.
Hallie Jane says
I think there are 2 issues at play that get mooshed together a lot. One is Scn as a spiritual practice that is a personal and spiritual journey, that involves beliefs and internal experiences, that no one has to the right to denigrate or ridicule. Does anyone ask people to prove that they took Jesus into their heart or spoke to God or felt the hand of God in some aspect of their life? No.. These are personal internal experiences. The other issue is the general fuckedupedness (that’s a real word) of the Scn group, especially the SO. It’s the religious equivalent of girls gone wild. I must say, I find the pigs berthing thing hard to understand. I just wouldn’t do it, never, ever, no way, nor, would I condone this type of mistreatment in my presence. One can’t criticize though, like they were at all places at all times. We now have a huge accumulation of data, over time, where we have specifics and incidents that most people had no way of knowing. I was never in the SO so much of this is new to me. People, jobs, locations and experiences can be very different, so we can not assume that all Scngsts knew all things at all times, and so, are as culpable as someone perpetrating an evil deed. There are people of good will and there are assholes. There is an earlier article where Mike tries to explain “why people stay” which is something that I needed to know. Perhaps at some point, if Jossi and Ronit wish to, they’ll let us know their thinking process of how they dealt with what they were observing and why they held on till they left. As a tech terminal, who was very abused at flag with 3 swing horrible auditing (2006-7), I’d love to know more about what was going on, on tech lines. In a nutshell, leave people’s religious experiences alone and stand up to assholes. We can do both.
I am glad I read this, having been a Sea Org member from 1973-98, this confirms my beliefs that I saved my ass in leaving when I did. I too was a NOTS auditor and this declaration blows my mind. It’s been awhile since we’ve seen a declaration, I hope we see more. The next Ronit that step up is Ronite Sorroco.
Ronit Charny says
mreppen, I know Ronit and Tom Sorroco very well. It’s not information for here. She needs to confront the evil, but being a top FSM, her livelihood depend on the church.
Chuck Beatty says
Several well informed new religion scholars would unquestionably rate Ronit And Yossi Charny as still practicing Scientologists, even with official Scientology excommunicating them.
Former highly trained official Scientologists are recognized as Scientology practitioners and freezone Scientologists or independent Scientologists.
People themselves decide when they are no longer Scientologists,
People chosing ANY new whole or changed or reformed religious spiritual practice is allowed in any case, per the UN Human Rights right to choose a new religion or practice.
People like Ronit and Yossi are within their human rights to tell their stories and still believe they are Scientologists.
Ronit Charny says
Well said Chuck Beatty. Thank you.
Frik Blaauw says
My pleasure, Pepper.
I loved what you wrote about the infinite scale in the first two paragraphs. A general concept which I apply to myself and to those around me. It helps for a better life and existence because it’s so easy to invalidate ourselves and others when the world drags us down.
The Cleared Cannibal analogy is a good one and helps to explain the situation of Scientologists who stick around after seeing the outpoints and getting burned a time or two, or three.
Thank you for brightening my day.
Frik Blaauw says
Jeez, guys. I was just trying to be polite and nice to EJ. But now you’ve said it: “Piss off, EJ!”
Frik Blaauw says
Your comments and viewpoint holds a lot of water. But consider this: the scale of abilities or awareness or intelligence upwards from where you currently are, is an infinite scale. And when you’ve climbed up the scale some five feet, you’re better than you were before. But compared to an infinite scale, you’re still a baby.
And being a better baby, doesn’t invalidate that which pulled you up by your bootstraps, just because it didn’t pull you all the way into the stars immediately.
And off course, mixed up in the actual practices of the Co$ and out-tech deliverables in the HGCs and academies, one has the influences that will bring about illnesses and pre-mature deaths. But that’s not LRH-pure deliveries – that’s the so-designed crap from DM et al.
This business cannot be handled with a four foot paintbrush. Broad, general statements leads no-where. Just because you, at your present operating thetan level, can’t see the stars, doesn’t mean the stars aren’t there. I have seen enough twinkles after auditing and after training, that will make me continue getting auditing and training so that I can see more and more.
Look again at the example given by Ronit and Yossi about the red flagged PC. To that PC, Scientology doesn’t work. And you’d have to agree with him.
Scientology is an applied technology. And if the applicant in a Scn organisation is not applying it at all or applying it badly/incorrectly, then that reflects on the applicant, not the technology.
A cannibal Cleared is just a Clear cannibal. Expecting him not to want to eat you for dinner, is naive on your part. And so many people (like me) stayed in the church, observed the out points, KR’d them, and then eventually leave when it’s too much. You see, we were trying to get the cannibals to change their eating habits. We do have an ARC even with and for cannibals and hoped that rather than leave early, stay and try and influence and change from within. But each has his own reality . . .and degree to which he will listen to being corrected.
And I hope there’s no gun to your head to receive auditing, or sit in an academy. Because that won’t work!
Ronit Charny says
Thank you Frik, for your good wishes and for taking the time to reply.
Loved your comment, brilliant explanation.
All our best wishes to you too. The bridge is becoming wider, with 2 lanes of exchanging flow.
Frik Blaauw says
Dear Ronit & Yossi,
Thank you for sharing this. My bridge of admiration flow from Africa to you is wide and strong.
May you flourish and prosper.
I hear your uninformed opinion about my religion loud and Clear, EJ.
I don’t know why you are welcome to spew this on Mike Rinder’s blog, but that is his decision.
You did not mention what your spiritual beliefs and/or practices are, if any. If you had I would have congratulated you and encouraged you to continue doing what works for you.
But now I would just like to invite you to fuck off.
I hope that you wake up someday.
Hear hear! My thoughts entirely. Yes – fuck off EJ!
It is great that you are out but here is what I don’t understand.
You still think the tech works? If the tech worked it would make you be able see truth, it would make you smart, brave and would give you the ability to act quickly and decisively in the direction of truth and help without regard for personal danger
Yet you saw incredible outpoints and abuses for year and years and yet you did nothing and you stayed for years and years. In fact you might never have left, you got kicked out!
It was Rinits’s mother who saved you.
Even after you left you still followed orders.
You seem like caring capable people. But If the tech worked it would have made you smarter. You would have been smart enough and brave enough to take action long ago.
Whatever your level of intelligence, caring, observation or obnosis is, was not increased by your auditing.
Maybe you are as nice, caring, and diligent as you are in spite of auditing not because of it.
If the tech really worked you could not have hundreds of “OTs” and “clears” imprisoned and abused. A real OT or Clear would simply not stand for abuse. A real OT would not be a victim of “Stockholm Syndrome”
And they would not take 20 years and help from their mother’s intervention to figure it out.
Somehow we count stats for clears and OT’s by certificates. It should only be counted by actions and abilities. Not abilities thought up in your head or how you feel. Actual action by how you live. Things about you that other people can see.
One simple stat of on OT should be that he does not let himself be utterly controlled, abused, forced to eat rice and beans, is willing to watch as others eat rice and beans. Is willing to let his supervisor mess up other PC’s steal from account and do all the other things that you saw were being done.
A real OT would have known that his supervisors were trying to ruin his vacation in Israel and would not have stood for it. A real OT would have fixed the problem. A real OT would not have complied with orders he knew to be off policy, out ethics and against the law. An army of OT’s would not have let this organization deteriorate to this level at all.
That is not being an OT. A cert does not an OT make.
The overall product of Scientology is the state of Scientology. Which is miserable. That is what Scientology produces. It is as simple as that.
Your story is an exact example that “The Tech Does Not Work.” Not as a whole anyway. Maybe some parts for some people could help. If it worked, then every trained admin and clear and OT would be gone from the church.
Yet highly trained and highly audited people are allowing themselves to be abused daily.
I am glad you are out. If you are auditing and helping people then great. I have seen auditing help in getting rid of some phobias and compulsions and other psychosomatic ills in some people some of the time. It could even be able to help some people in running a business if applied with intelligence.
But it is a giant leap of pure faith to go from that to the ideas that there are actual Clears and OTs and that is simply WORKS.
This exaggeration has got to end.
If you had a person that stopped sneezing because of an auditing session then say that “In my experience I had 3 people who came to me who sneezed a lot and now one of them does not sneeze much anymore” Be specific. Don’t say “The Tech Works” that is a gross generality.
Audit, help be if you can but don’t exaggerate anymore.
There are no Clears or OTs.
The tech (as a whole) does not work.
Another Monday morning quarterback.
Well, EJ, you can go and exaggerate somewhere else – I am sure some fools might listen to your drivel.You must be very worried about something to post such a long story about something “that does not work”
You’re pretty judgemental and invalidative, EJ. I’d like to see what YOUR stats are, for real what products you get and how your stats are and whether you help people or harm them.
EJ, your observations very understandably, would be totally real for someone who has never been in. But the complete answer can be totally summed up in this maxim: “When one is under suppression from other(s), they will act in a manner that looks either nonsensical or irrational”, and most importantly “THEY THEMSELVES WILL TEND TO NOT EVEN REALIZE the person(s) are suppressive”, in so many words, until they get away from them. This is priceless words of wisdom for not only scientologists BUT FOR EACH AND EVERY PERSON FROM ANY WALK OF LIFE OR ACTIVITY. Check out the million and one examples out there to see that this is true. Now couple this with the mega ginormous power and freedom of abilities that scientology gives one, and, additionally the very true maxim also, that one needs to judge person(s) by not only how much bad they do, but how much good, to make up your mind about them. And, in this case, since scientology actually DOES GIVE priceless, immeasurable good to people, THAT is all that makes such a case SO HARD to judge.
Ronit & Yossi,
Awesome to see you come out fully and letting us know the gory details of what it was going on and what it took to say ‘no more’ and leave the scene of horror.
Some of it sounds VERY familiar as experienced at AOLA.
It’s great to have you both OUT and continuing the good work.
Never Clear says
Mike- don’t make assumptions about your audience. I’m a never in and have no interest in becoming a scientologist but I found this letter to be heartfelt and a fantastic read. I hope it has an impact on the Church of Miscavige. Thank you for sharing.
Mike, I am a never-in, who lives in a part of the country that have no $cions. However, I found the letter to be very interesting. You provide a tremendous service and safe place for people to share their experiences and trauma due to Miscavage. As long as a person is not a target, seeing Miscavage in action must be a rare experience in watching a sociopath in action. I hope he leaves his brain to science (preferably while he is alive!). As far as Ronit, it sounds like she is highly respected. I believe her compassion is amazing. Despite her $cion experience, she somehow was able to hold onto her humanity. Mike, what do you think helped her hold onto her empathy and values in the face of so much pressure and abuse? I would think her sensitivity would have destroyed her in such an abusive environment. I believe in the same situation, I would become very hardened to other’s needs just to survive. Is she unusual? I would love your take on that! Thanks for all you do. Ann
If I may……she never lost touch with her native personal integrity.
Firstly, thank you Ronit and Yossi for sharing this. Next a few observations if I may. Violating any of the precepts of the WTH will not cause you any harm and the co$ does so each and every day and dare I say, the founder may have also violated his own (borrowed) precepts regularly.
Your CSW was approved by pure postulate? That’s not how it works. But hey…
I never read of Group Lower conditions in policy and as an OEC/FEBC grad I have to say this is probably another arbitrary.
The system of managing by statistics is seriously flawed as continuous expansion is an impossibility. There are universal laws that say that there is a limit to personal production, You can’t and never will always be upstat. Therein lies the inbuilt booby trap.
LRH violated his own policy when it suited him so no surprise that his minions do the same.
Fascinating post showing just how desperate Scientology really is. Thank you again.
Jory (Giora) Kenneth says
A story with a good ending. However, as a Post-Scientologist it still amazes me how slowly people come to their senses. Ok, so your’e out-of-the-church. How long will it take you guys, Ronit & Yossi, until you REALLY wake up from the ludicrous fantasia, dreamt-up by an honest-to-goodness madman? I too, being out of Scientology for 30 yard now, and TOTALLY disabused of the idea that it has ANY long lasting merit, am still fascinated by the subject and read up on it daily. That’s the power of brain-washing.
May be you too need to REALLY wake up from the ludicrous fantasia, that anybody who has not reached your exact conclusions about…whatever, is having a ludicrous fantasia. In other words, that your opinions and conclusions are valid and should be respected, but they are not Gospel! (the Bible in your case..) Is that not a cult-like attitude you still carry with you from 35 years ago? Think about it. Just a suggestion.
Jory (Giora) Kenneth says
Yes Hemi, the name does ring a bell, but as I am only a lowly Clear, I can’t recall precisely from where & when.
Re “my opinions”. You are aware of-course that certain things are, or are not, facts. Telling me that what I wrote here is not gospel is… (really) silly. Don’t you suppose me and everybody else on this site know that what we are writing is our opinion? We all do our best to write what we think and believe in. In fact, It seems that most people writing here seem to agree with me that Scientology beliefs are ludicrous. Not that that automatically makes it so. However, something worthwhile to keep in mind is that altho everyone is entitled to their own thoughts & ideas, they are NOT entitled to their own facts. And so, unless you can prove to me that the “Tech” works, I’ll gladly & whole-heartedly go on saying it is BALONEY.
Re me having a “cult-like attitude: As I mentioned, I do view myself as having what’s sometimes termed “Ex-Cult-Syndrom” or a form of Post-traumatic stress disorder. I am acutely aware of that. Does that mean or imply that I’m wrong in my options?
Two suggestions: Well, if you still believe in “the power of the tech”, then good luck…
And if you live in Israel, you can contact me, that would be nice.
Ronit and Yossi, thank you for being here. And, “welcome out.” Your write-up is fascinating and i believe it will prove to be quite valuable to many. I wish you and yours continued success in life, and in applying the Tech.
I posted this in reply to Themoreyouknow earlier, who denied Ronit and Yossi their successes and suggested they help a worthy cause such as the Red Cross.
Meja Deja says
Thank you Ronit and Yossi, for your informative write-up which confirms much of what I’ve observed.
So happy to hear you are out there and auditing!
May you prosper and flourish and take each person who comes to you up!
Scott Campbell says
Ronit and Yossi,
The church may have declared you suppressive, but I would like to declare both of you mensches – in the fullest sense of the word.
Ronit Charny says
Thank you very much Scott.
At this opportunity, I would like to thank all of you for you good wishes and support. We have gotten hundreds of responses. In time, I will answer each one of them. Thank you Mike, for letting us share our story on your successful Blog. Brilliant!
thanks for writing this down Ronit and Yossi. It will help a lot of people. When you get terribly specific about the abuses people recognize the Church’s impact on their own lives.
Thank you for providing this forum for exposing what has been going on “behind the curtain” at Flag and elsewhere in the COS. Every day the truth is getting out to more and more people. This is especially a good thing for people who would like to see the beneficial potential of the spiritual tech of Scientology remain available and in use in the world in future times.
And it is also acts as an object lesson for anyone in any organization and demonstrates how the ideals of a group can be twisted and misused when arrogance, corruption, lies, insincerity, and abuse are tolerated by members.
You are a champion of sincere and good intentioned people.
Hallie Jane says
“Starr, Commanding Officer IHELP WUS, was more concerned with Ronit not being an I HELP member than the Red Tag PC.”
……This is not surprising to me. This person Starr, using this same “M.O.”, by her entheta attacks and neglect of her duties contributed to the death of a dear friend of mine who was a long time upstat field auditor in Los Angeles.
I get the impression that this Starr has never personally audited anyone.
I hereby give this person a nickname which she has earned: DeathStarr
Is that Starr Anaradian? She may have married and had several names after that but in the 80s I knew a Starr Anaradian. Same one?
Ronit and Yossi, thank you very much for communicating the truth about what has been and is going on the “church” of Scientology as directed by the sociopath and his henchmen who are running the organization.
This communication is very important for Scientologists to understand. And thank you also for emphatically making a distinction between L. Ron Hubbard’s Tech & Policy and whatever the hell this “church” is doing currently. You have been on the “inside” for a long time at a high level in the organization and have left relatively recently. Your communication is very important. It is so important that those who appreciate the subject and spiritual philosophy of Scientology and wish to see it to continue read this.
As Karen has said many times,
“Let sunshine disinfect”.
Thanks for the sunshine!
I second MJ’s WTF. ………WTF?
Hallie Jane says
Welcome to the sunshine Yossi and Ronit! I’m glad you’re able to do your chosen work in peace now. It’s truly sad how far down the SO has gone. It’s such a vicious dog eat dog environment, how anyone can tolerate it anymore is beyond me. Portland is lucky to have you.
(A question from a sympathetic never-in.)
Could someone please describe the implication of Mike’s introductory statement:
‘Ronit and Yossi sent this message out to all their contacts yesterday.’
How deep into the CoS would that be?
You all may never know how you impress and inspire others with your compassion, loyalty and integrity.
This was most likely so their friends would receive it and read it before the OSA folks could declare them and warn everyone to avoid any contact with them. Once the word gets out loyal Scientologists would avoid any communication.
Tony DePhillips says
Hip, hip HURRAY!!! I am so glad these guys made it out. I used to talk to Ronnit when I was doing my “refreshers” which were NOT refreshing. She was always very cool and well respected. It’s so insane how Flag created the insanity that caused the Grandmother’s antagonism and then the dumb asses lose some of the best staff that they had. How fucking insane is that?????
This is truly another major pillar crumbling and the house of cards will ultimately fall and that dumb fuck mad man will finally get what is coming to him.
Thank you for this.
One can make a very good living with The Red Cross.
Miss Ellie says
I do not know you but admire your strength & courage. I know that what ever you do you will do well & be an example to others. Now Thursday can be just another day.
Tell your mother I admire her as well. She must be a very special person – now we know where you get it!
Enjoy the rest of your life…. and continue to live it in FREEDOM.
DM needs to be physically detained. This is per LRH policy, removing those with counter intention. And his henchmen, none of whom are scientologists.
Taken out by their necks. For real.
THIS I wanna see!
Ronit and Yossi paint a picture of management abuse and absurd Catch – 22 arbitraries that are fully within my reality having audited as an Intern in 2 SO HGCs, ASHO and AOLA for about a year each and ASHO a second time as a C/S Intern for another 6 months. Stat pushes just before 2 pm on Thursdays were common place. Losing SO auditors to cancer or other sudden devastating illnesses were not uncommon. Like Ronit, I loved delivering the tech. It still grieves me that my love for delivering the tech caused me to stifle my outrage for how my children and best friend were treated with insane off-policy “ethics” cycles. Writing things up and insisting the church take some responsibility for their cruel and non-Scientological actions got me nothing but more sec check questions. It was after this that I bowed out of my job as Senior C/S Narconon Int when my 5 year contract was up. (As a note, I felt this job was my calling in life.) I love the Narconon Network and didn’t want to bring any up lines heat onto NN Int, so I retired at the end of Dec 2012. It broke my heart to leave but the handwriting was on the wall. In early 2013 I learned my daughter and I were “on an OSA list” to be declared. At that point I decided to go public with my departure from the church. I wrote Bye-Bye Miss Scientology Pie on my blog (mycandiopinion.com) and lost my fair weather friends PDQ…
I get the distinct impression you were very dedicated knatherthomas. The game ain’t over yet!
Kathy Nather says
Thanks, MJ. I appreciate the nod.
I hope you take the C/Sing back up again.
There’s plenty to do…..
Theresa Laster Vivanco says
Welcome to freedom!
Gus Cox says
“Upon our arrival in Israel, Ronit was called by her Director of Processing to return to Flag immediately to get back to auditing.”
Typical SO arrogance. Fuck you, you’re nothing, the world will end if you don’t get back here or else. The Sea Org sells itself as the most ethical group on the planet, but it is a criminal organization. Criminal as in breaking laws, and criminal as in horribly out exchange.
The SO was LRH’s second biggest mistake. Second, only because the basic idea was sound: An organization of well-trained OTs to run Scientology. Well, here we see what it became.
The Sea Org: Arrogant. Incompetent. Criminal.
Of course, IMHO LRH’s biggest mistake was the Commodore’s Messengers. What an unmitigated disaster that turned out to be. Teenaged girls in hot pants and halter tops, drunk with the power of uttering: “The Commodore says…” People were to treat the messengers as if it was LRH himself speaking. My God. Thus begat the screaming teenaged girls of the CMO, hell incarnate.
Of course, the worst screaming teenaged girl was that little twat David Miscavige Himself, who leveraged the power of “The Commodore says…” to take over the whole shebang. Man, if anyone embodies “Arrogant. Incompetent. Criminal.” it’s David Miscavige.
“It was very obvious she had no business at all operating an e-meter.” Typical CMO kiddie. SO staff are the least-trained, least-processed, least-competent, and most arrogant Scientologists of all, and CMO kiddies are the worst of the worst.
Outstanding Coming out letter.
High Fives and Congratulations.
Champagne toast to Ronit and Yossi
✩ ♥ ❀ ♫ ☺ ❀. ♥ ♪ ☼ ♪ ☼ ♥♥ !!
Jacqui Taylor says
Ronit & Yossi, thank you SO much for doing this. I really believe this effective blow and will have a similar effect to Debbie Cooke’s communication.
I don’t know either of you, but I have 3 wonderful friends from Israel who are still in the “bubble”. Would love to give you their contact info. Mike, can you give them my email?
Thank you SO much!
Ronit Charny says
Jacqui, Thank you for your wishes. My email is email@example.com, you can contact me.
Gus Cox says
Wow. That explains a lot.
What a state of continual suppression that is immanated from the top down resulting in NCG as a whole. Congratulations on getting out of that vicious cycle. I love your Mother for putting out that ad, brilliant way to put in ethics on those a-holes – she’s a true hero!!! Hugs!!
Ronit Charny says
Thank you! Yes my mother is brilliant, amazing character. Yep, a sure point to get your family out of the SO, back then at least.
Morris Adams says
Ronit and Yossi – Thank you so much for telling your story. I was shocked at some of the things you disclosed as I thought I’d already heard it all. I hope Scientologists still in, under the radar or on the fence, who read this will wake up and realize what an evil organization the Church has become and get out. They need to realize that just because they personally haven’t experienced (yet) the bad things they hear and see, it is only a matter of time till they do something unacceptable and the Church targets them, holds their sons and daughters with threats of disconnection, extorts all their money and bankrupts them, runs Black Dianetics on them, declares and expels them for daring to question Miscaviage or looking for answers on the Internet, etc, etc, etc. I’m so happy to hear that you are delivering standard LRH tech in the field. Bravo to you both!
Ronit Charny says
Thank you Sara. I agree with you 100%, when you say: “”IT’S ONLY A MATTER OF TIME TILL THEY DO SOMETHING UNACCEPTABLE AND THE CHURCH TARGETS THEM….”
I got an email today from good old friends which I haven’t really been in comm for some years now. They asked me about some injustice they have experience in Flag, if I can give them some info about what happened behind the scene. This couple has been front line disseminators of Scn for over 30 years, good dedicated hard working folks in the field. Several years ago, they came to Flag for a refresher and they got attacked, which was a complete witch-hunt and injustice. My heart cry’s out for them! I should have mentioned them in my letter too, but the point was made. Here we go again, getting rid of the best staff and public.
Followup to Wayne’s World should be Dave’s World.
So glad to see you guys out – I remember both of you guys from the times when I was on Solo NOTs!!
DM’s real stat is # of Scientologists leaving the church. Dude’s in power y’all.
Just Me says
First, great document, Ronnit and Yossi. Thanks much for taking the care to put all these facts down.
Second, Mike, you were smart and right to wait to publish this until their document had traveled through the Scientology community.
Third, this document–with all its specifics about out-tech, abuse, fraud, extortion–will have a huge effect on those who value the tech. I think it could have almost as big an effect as Debbie Cook’s letter. It’s hard to deny the insanity of an organization that claims to be KSW that operates consistently in accordance with non-KSW orders.
Finally, it’s telling that these reports show how RTC micro-manages every aspect of the Church of Scientology. And we all know who runs RTC–the Pope of Scientology Himself, Mr. David Miscavige who, down in Texas, is trying to convince numerous judges and courts that he lives an ivory tower existence thinking nothing but unicorn and glitter thoughts and has nothing whatsoever to do with the operations of the Church of Scientology. LOL!
David Cooke says
VWD on this detailed, honest and clearly thought out writeup. And also for the reminder that the tech really does work, when it is applied by a competent auditor who has an intention to help their preclear.
The data in this letter confirmed and validated many ideas I had about my own experiences at Flag on auditing lines and at AOLA too. I’ll give my OTV story first.
One day I showed up for my session on OTV only to be told that I couldn’t receive auditing because I had no money on my account. I was surprised by this because I had paid for extra intensives to have on account and this came out of the blue. The D of P took me into a private room to tell this news, along with the fact that someone had combed through all of my folders going back over 10 years and added up all the session and admin time and found I now owed the org money, and had used up over 1 1/2 intensives of time. I was incredulous and she told me I could add up the figures and do the math myself if I wanted to. Wow, what a surprise.
I am a very hardworking person and conscientious about paying my debts, etc so this threw me for a loop. I was in the middle of OTV and now owed the org money, plus I had to pay for more intensives to finish. This was not a huge problem to me but would take a little time.
I told her I would handle it but that I was in the middle of a reading question, and asked if we could flatten the question first, so I didn’t just have to go off the rails while currently running something on the level. She looked shocked and acted totally offended and told me “Absolutely Not”.
I did handle this a few weeks later and returned and finished. During that time, no-one ever called me once to see how I was doing. It taught me something; that no matter how much they tell you that your auditing and OT levels are the MOST important thing you could be doing right now, they are not. If you owe one penny through no fault of your own, you are out of the org in the blink of an eye, and of zero importance.
It was never easy to sell me services after that. The jig was up.
Ronit Charny says
Hi Pepper, and thank you for sharing your story. The church and it’s leaders are actually destroying the tech and the main purpose is to milk your wallets dry. I am sorry you had to experience that middle of your OTV. All our best wishes to you.
Hi Ronit and thank you for answering me. I wasn’t expecting you to do that and it was kind of you to do so. I want you to know that your letter confirmed so many other things for me re: Flag auditing that I decided not to post about. I had a lot of what you said in the back of my mind for a long time based on my observations and really appreciate that you took the time and energy to detail it out for us. Now that this information is on the Internet, people can access it over and over again. You helped a lot of people today and I’m grateful for what you and Yossi have done.
Yes, I agree that the church and its leaders are destroying the tech for financial gain. I don’t blame the staff. I believe they are probably doing their best in a very bad situation.
Thank you Mike Rinder, for making the letter available to us today.
Being on staff these days is similar to the fate of Sisyphus.
(The gods had condemned Sisyphus to ceaselessly rolling a rock to the top of a mountain, whence the stone would fall back of its own weight. They had thought with some reason that there is no more dreadful punishment than futile and hopeless labor.)
Pepper can I share something I experienced while I was on OT V? I think you will appreciate the contrast.
I had put together enough money for 5 intensives when I went out to Portland recently to do OT V with Ronit Charny. Well it turned out that for me it was going to take a little more than that. Do you know what Ronit said to me when I was getting close running out of money, she told me not to worry about the money and that she was going to get me through the level and would audit me for free to get me done. Can you believe that?
That gesture told me everything I needed to know about Ronit, she was not concerned about the money; she had taken me on and was going to see that I got through OT V before I would be going home. I was deeply touched by her generosity but there was no way I could accept free auditing, particularly because Ronit was just getting going again as an auditor and I was not going to be a welfare case, so I rounded up the money and we took it to a completion.
What I learned from my trip to Portland is that Ronit is first and foremost an auditor and feels a responsibility to those who fall under her care -If LRH where here he would tip his hat and give Ronit a hearty smile.
The church could learn a tremendous lesson in compassion from Ronit about turning their backs on a parishioner when someone simply asks for a single audit question to be completed.
She is a true auditor Kevin. I really don’t see how you could get stable case gain in Miscavige’s madhouse.
Hi Kevin – thank you for sharing that with me about Ronit. You are very lucky to have her as your auditor and I’m happy that your OTV went so well! I appreciate your kind words.
BTW, I remember you made many funny comments about the “Galactic Samurai” statue – a gift to DM going to Int Base. I laughed so much reading the comments that day.
Dani Lemberger says
Dear Ronit & Yossi,
Thank you so much for sharing with us what you know and what you have seen. You make it clear that Scientology and the “Church of Scientology” are contradictory terms. That there is no Scientology in the “Church”, that pretty soon all Scientologists will be those “declared” by DM, that he is nearing his last days as the only person who is always right.
You make it clear that Flag, under DM, has become a dangerous place. That Scientology Tech, as developed by LRH, is only available these days outside the church.
At Dror Center we are enjoying affluence and ever stronger reaches from around the globe of those seeking Standard Tech and friendship and care. Yossi & Ronit, you are assured of success since you have such an abundance of these attributes.
The path to spiritual freedom can only be traveled by proud individuals, assisted by selfless guides.
Thank you for your courage, our continued support is assured.
Tami, Dani & your friends at Dror
Thank you for making this vital post. Allow me to differ with you on one point. In the first sentence of your intro to the Charny’s letter, you say:
“For readers of this blog who have decided scientology is not for them, this posting will be of no or very limited interest.”
It is my belief that a person who seeks to understand life and has been exposed to Scientology will “decide Scn is not for them”, only if he’s had no results or has been severely abused. This has become the norm at DM’s church. The tech has been warped by a sick pervert beyond recognition. The few good souls still inside, like Ronit until 2009, have been subjugated so as to serve him in further enslaving others and extorting them.
It is tragic to see that those who have escaped the clutches of Miscavige are terrified by the subject itself. I am witness to this on a daily basis. “Betrayal after Trust” dramatized over and over.
Those who will still give a chance to free auditors, such as Ronit and many others, will again enjoy relief, wins and spiritual gains.
Mike Rinder says
Dani — there are a lot of people who read this blog who have never been and have no intention of becoming scientologists. This posting is virtually impossible for them to read due to the nomenclature. I was not addressing so much those who were scientologists and are now no longer, but those who never have been. Even so, there are a lot of those who have left the church who have decided that scientology is not for them and they would disagree with your assessment of the situation. This argument has gone back and forth on this blog, and no doubt will continue to do so. One side says “you need scientology applied correctly to sort out your disagreements with scientology” and the other side says “you are still stuck in the bubble thinking you have the answers to everything and scientology is just a scam.”
Fascinating to watch both sides put forth their arguments. The problem with the “scientologist” side of it is that you have to be a scientologist to agree with it. So it falls on understandably deaf ears. The problem with the other side of the argument is that it negates anything good about scientology, so falls on understandably deaf ears.
You can mark this on your calendar. I agree with you here.
Besides it is my opinion always has been that Scientology is not for everyone.
Dani Lemberger says
Mike, thank you for responding to my comment. It demonstarates, again, your wisdom and caring. I got what you said, we can further debate this next time we meet, Dani
Mike, it’s fascinating to read your observations about the different types of readers of this blog. Thanks for sharing them.
My own perception is that there’s really quite a spectrum of readers out here, and the remarkable thing is that you’ve been able to cultivate an atmosphere of respectful discourse that has made it possible for people with very different views (and not just of Scientology) to follow and, if they choose, take part in the discussion. There are, for example, readers who have never been Scientologists who fully honor and respect the positive, even life-changing experiences that many people have had in the church. There are former Scientologists who have completely renounced the whole subject. But you’ve given us something we can all agree on: the present-day organization as run by David Miscavige is a toxic enterprise, destroying lives and families.
You’ve also introduced us to great people like Ronit and Yossi, and others before them — which is really quite an honor and a pleasure for those of us who would not have been privileged to know them otherwise.
I guess what I’m saying really is that there is more to this blog and its readership than two mutually exclusive groups who tolerate one another because of our mutual addiction to your wit and wisdom. Though there is that.
Mike Rinder says
Thank you for your kind words Richard. Much appreciated. I do understand there is a very wide spectrum of views held by the readers of this blog. Perhaps as many different ones as there are readers.
Delightful diversity dude!
Joe Pendleton says
Mike – this will probably be a point of discussion that continues. I take what Marty would refer to as “the middle path.” I do not invalidate any of the wins, cognitions or abilities that I received from training and processing and that I apply in life every day. At the same time, I no longer consider myself a Scientologist, not only because I cannot in any way support the quasi-fascist Church of Scientology, but because I also now reject completely the idea of electing one “source” for all one’s true knowledge about life. I now realize that to do this inevitably means giving up all of your self determinism to that source and your freedom to disagree and have your own viewpoints. Ironically, becoming a Scientologist almost always involves an almost complete contradiction of the earliest basics of freedom of thought and postulate that Ron introduced in his philosophy. He couldn’t grant that freedom to others and maintain his complete control over what the members HAD to consider was the truth. But y’all know the saying about the baby and the bath water, right?
Ohh Mike don’t discount us never ins who have done our homework and have the Scn nomenclature pretty down pat. If I have any questions I just refer to my google dictionary ..
I enjoy your thread. Yes I am an anti.. But you have been my hero since helicopter tech. We were rooting for you while at Clearwater. Screaming our lungs out! We were just so proud of you drowning out DM..
Thank you… Baby
Mike Rinder says
I don’t discount you in any way Baby. 🙂
Tony DePhillips says
Mike your duplication of the situation always impresses. Thanks for all that you do.
After more than 30 years in Scientology I realized that clever people, like Charnies, before Scio remain clever and stupid out ethics people, like Dave, behave stupid. I have not seen any contrary examples.
” Standard Tech and friendship and care ”
I couldn’t agree with you more Dani. This is what I found when I arrived in Portland and had the good fortune to be audited by Ronit.
Morris Adams says
Very well put, Dani. Brought tears to my eyes.
Ronit and Yossi – thank you for your letter and I’m so happy that you are out and away from that daily abuse and suppression. Now you can practice Scientology again. My best wishes to you both and God bless your mother!
I don’t know why they stopped with her mother. They should have declared the dog too.
That’s because they turned the dog and had him working for OSA.
Maybe he (or she) and Davey’s pooch can start a 2d. They could piss on all the out ethics scumbags at Int.
laurie delamontagne says
ah ah ah ah !!! declared the dog!!! I can’t stop laughing….
Dave’s taken his cue dealing with troublesome domestic pets and has extended it to all staff and public. NEUTER THEM ALL!
Ronit and Yossi are misrepresenting the scientology philosophy here , they are coming on the internet boasting about giving celebrity scientologists special treatment, this is one of the reasons why scientology is hated at the moment by so many people , becasue there is special treatment and arselicking of wealthy famous people in scientology.
In defense of Ronit and Yossi.
Ron always considered Celebrities mostly artists VIPs (just read what he says in SOS about them) and that they should be handled with care which was the reason he had Yvonne open up Celebrity Center in LA.
Personally I’ve never had a problem with that.
Another thing having audited a few celebs myself. They are not the easiest people to audit and therefore require a higher class of auditor to audit them.
Co$ is using celebrities in promoting and advertising. OK that might work in the USA, but it does not work in Europe and other parts of the world. Europeans will listen if educated people recommend scientology , but entertainers no, entertainers are not necessarily very educated or even intelligent .
Hollywood celebrities think they are helping scientology, they are not .
They can take a hike.
They are representing the actions of management, not bagging about their own actions. They are coming on the Internet relating how they were ordered to treat celebrities by their superiors.
OK ,but when I read it , it came across as a sales pitch to me, Are they trying to advertise here to sell auditing services ?
If they are trying to sell auditing then listen GAT trained is squirrel , it would be squirrel auditing you would be buying .
“At the same time of routing out, the same OSA Exec told us that we couldn’t live in the State of Florida.”
WHAT?? – This is outrages!
Besides all the abuses which are gross, what is this that the ‘Church of Scientology’s’ OSA is assuming a jurisdictional right of the government??
Isn’t it the USA law enforcement which has jurisdiction over where a person can live (and only when there is a conviction of some sorts??
The ‘Church of Scientology ‘ is assuming this right arbitrarily (and I assume also this is illegally).
I heard similar before. Can’t this be reported to government officials in the US?
Be my guest.
I’m European. If this would happen to me in my country, I would report it to the proper authority; and the media.
Oh yeah like our Government…. AKA Dave’s special “friends” is gonna do any thing about that.
Sure you can report it if you want. They’ll probably file it next to reports on torture and other “enhanced interrogation techniques” and the NSA’s continuing efforts to read everybody’s emails.
And might actually get to it after they’re not too busy invading some country or having the CIA overthrow another regime.
Hey if you want to waste a few bytes or paper and postage knock yerself out.
Alex de Valera says
They don’t care. Is is too unbelievable! For the moment at least and when the FBI starts investigating, the inquiry gets derailed with orders from the top. The list of amazing affidavits starting in the 80s is worth consulting: the Fishman papers, Aznaran, Jesse Prince, Hanna Eltringham, Robert Vaughn Young … and more reacently Debby Cook, Marty Rathbun. The Radical Extortion Racket and slave machine keeps running at a mad pace towards the brick wall of its self destruction. No one in government wants to stop it. It is too unbelievable! I knew too that “something is rotten in the kingdom of Denmark”. The values that made us join are no longer inside the “Church”. Most of the dedicated staff of the golder era (the Old Saint Hill) were declared. Most of the tech staff trained by LRH ended up declared, like Karen de la Carriere or Ken Urquarth. There is no possible reform from the inside.
Welcome out of the animal farm and to the total freedom of the web. Thank you both and Mike for posting your story. You will certainly help many with your know how and your integrity.
Mike Rinder says
Alex — Just for your info and general knowledge here, the “Fishman Papers” are made up garbage. Fishman was never a scientologist, but he was a consummate con-man. He studied enough about his subject (as good con men do) to sound convincing (especially to a anyone that didnt know the terminology, though he got a LOT of things wrong). No problem with citing to the rest — I don’t know that everything they said is true, but at least their fundamental position (that there were scientologists and were in the Sea Org) was true. Fishman’s was a lie made up out of wholecloth (though he was smart enough to have created some sort of record for himself by going into the Letteresse Mission in West Palm Beach and buying some books and a meter to “corroborate” his stories). He had a long history as a con-man.
Well said Alex. Dave’s day of reckoning draws near.
Mike, Scientology is not for me yet this posting from these two people is quite interesting. I believe because of the technical backgrounds of Ronit and Yossi it will take them much longer to fully decompress but good for them.
I still cannot for the life of me understand the self imposed linguistic isolation that is strived for in Scientology. While I believe that English is not the primary language for them still the choice of wording appears to be Scientology based.
Cognition=Realization, Cycle=Interaction, Drilling=Practice
Why not just use the English language which has a much broader audience. Or do some people just wish to live in their self imposed isolation? In all honesty if I were discussing an issue I would want the widest swath of a population as possible to further the cause. I feel for all the family members broken up by this organization as well as the accompanying financial ruin many suffer.
Whatever the cause working with the populace along with understanding of another’s position I find extremely important in any public outreach.
While I cannot understand the fascination with LRH after listening to CL8 & RJ lectures as well as reading materials I still find the sociological affects interesting.
I truly hope that both Ronit and Yossi find only long happy lives full of joy as they continue down their paths.
Well it’s like this Taylor.
This from what I understand is a blog for Scientologists who have left the Church or are considering doing so not a public outreach program.
Not to be rude. But you remind me of some non-smoker who comes into a smoke filled bar and demands that everyone quit smoking so as they can them feel more comfortable or whatever.
Or worse goes to France or some other country and demand that everybody speak English.
My advice is either learn the lingo or skip it.
This step for this couple is the equivalent in the life of an addict as “the step down, and the recovering addicts as he is breaking his addiction gets methadone.” I was just on the Bunker,and ANYONE WHO SAW THAT RADIATION VIDEO OF THIS IGNORAMUS, who makes no sense, makes it up as he goes along, lies etc., how on earth can these seemingly well intentioned, nice people still eat up his verbal gobbledygook? DM, is just following his master, the creator of all these policies,and human right abuses.
You express your opinion like it’s the gospel.
“DM, is just following his master, the creator of all these policies,and human right abuses.”
Like OSA’s standard line.
Dave’s just doing what LRH intended.
Same song different lyrics.
You guys should really get together and form a club.
Oh what memories this story brings back! Every word of it rings true, because I lived it too. Welcome “out,” Ronit and Yossi.
Ronit Charny says
Oh My God! Kevin!!! You made me blush! Thank you!
When one is getting auditing on his own determinism, with no arbitrariness and the auditor is there for the pc, the amount of gains available from LRH Tech is priceless! Many of us have experienced betrayal from the “church” and unfortunately decided scientology is not for them. Scientology Tech works, if you ever took someone in session and saw this person having a cognition or win, you would know the tech works. The gains are available. As I said in our letter. There are MANY STANDARD FIELD AUDITORS OUT HERE to HELP YOU ACHIEVE all available gains from the TECH.
You said it sister!
On a somewhat disrelated note re the second dynamic, Dave should find himself a big being with big tits. She can call herself Misclevage. 😉
Why would he do that when he has Tom Cruise?
His boobs aren’t ideal.
Personally I always Tom and Dave were both Ideal Boobs.
You got a point there.
laurie delamontagne says
:oD you two are hilarious!
Laurie, he would do that if he were into girls.
Good for you for standing up to this nonsense. I salute you. Welcome to freedom.
Gayle aka TroubleShooter says
I’m so happy for you both. I enjoyed finally reading the details of you leaving Ronit. I look forward to seeing you soon I hope. Mazeltov!
Ronit Charny says
Thank you, each one of you for your care and good words!! We are very grateful and overwhelmed with joy, hearing from all of you. We are amazed by the amount theta we are receiving from so many people today, some publicly and some still under the radar. Halina, you are right. My mother is quite something and she saved us from this slave making factory.
Ronit.. Your mother is a Saint! Going to the ends of the earth for her baby. I laughed at the thought of mama doing the A to E Steps. OMG too funny.
I am glad that you as a couple have each other. It makes me smile.
Overrun in California says
There are lots of groups that people have left after belonging to them. Not one of them even comes close to Scntlgy in the amount of hate, disgust and a willingness and intense purpose of former members to bring down. When you abuse “power” to the extent some Scntlgsts have done and continue to do, those who are abused do not forget.
Ronit and Yossi, I am so happy to see your story here. It is so important that the truth gets out on just exactly what takes place out of sight of the eyes of the Scientology public.
The insane, mouth frothing focus on money and stats is astonishing.
In very recent months I had the great fortune to have been audited by Ronit on OT V and I can’t tell what a tremendous experience it was! Right from the start I could tell I was safely in the hands of an auditor who knew her business. The many thousands of hours of her auditing experience were clearly on display and I was very happy I had worked it out to arrive in her hands. I couldn’t have been more comfortable sitting across from Ronit with no attention on anything except what we were there to handle. OT V was awesome and Ronit guided my there like she could have done it with her eyes closed.
Ronit is currently C/Sing and helping me through The Cause Resurgence RD. I am home today and have time to be writing this because I had a major win yesterday, otherwise I would be out running today. (The CRRD done with rudiments in and an interest in doing it in the first place is amazing BTW.)
If there are any of you Independents who are looking for a professional, caring and decent to the core auditor, I highly recommend you find your way to that chair three feet across from Ronit – You will be happy you did!
Love to you Ronit and Yossi !
What a difference a real success story sounds like instead of the crap we get from the COS.
You mean the ones acknowledging the infernal….er …I …mean …eternal wisdom of RTC in perver…er..preserving the technology.
Yes, the bullshit boilerplate.
Thomas Weeks says
Funny that the only people who care about the knowledge report aspects of this letter are people out of the church.
The reason Tom.
Is that the Church doesn’t consider it a “knowledge report” unless you are ratting out your friends and family.
gato rojo says
Ronit and Yossi, soooooo glad you hit the high road and set up your own shop, once again doing good for the people who request it of you. Portland is such a great town, too.
I’m glad you took the time to mention the actual tech or policy references in almost every violation. This shows that there was something to the subject and there are actual technical rules to abide by, and individuals have spun off and twisted it, broken all those rules and made it seem like that is what Scientology is about.
The wins you are achieving again prove that. That unfortunate red-tagged pc was a horiffic example of what the “church” of $cn has become, dramatizing all the bad intentions (no matter who they originated from and when) of the group and NONE of the good, helpful, productive ones that were originally set forth.
Congratulations on your freedom from these looney-tunes. The indie field has gained even more momentum.
Almost 30 years ago I became a fair game target when I spoke up about abuse of staff and tried to stop the child abuse within the walls of scientology. Soon it was all just some black nightmare in my rearview mirror but several years ago stories like the Charny’s creeped their way onto my radar. Soon after I began speaking and making efforts to end the child abuse once again, and once again, became a target several times over.
Scientology’s environment today is too dangerous and stressful for adults. Imagine what it might be like for minors who can’t speak for fear of losing their family, home or further punishment.
I applaud and thank the Charny’s for speaking out and reaching out, knowing how the conditioning over the years can cause one to be fearful and even feel guilty. We were all mentally manipulated to keep silent outside the corporation. It can take years to file down every bar of our mental prison.
I am writing this in hope that Ronit and Yossi or anyone currently reaching out to them, anyone in fact, who has any information that might contribute to ending the mental, physical, spiritual, verbal and sexual abuse of minors inside the criminal scientology network will do the right thing and report every detail to Child Protective Services of Pinellas County. Today.
We all wanted to make our world a little better, saner, safer and happier. While I am stuck with the label of an “ex”, I believe we can all come together at this time to do whatever we can to protect our children from the horrific hell they are living every day, right now, right this minute.
Thirty years ago there were no blogs or forums, no email, no internet, no cellphones, nothing. I hope Ronit and Yossi (and Mike’s) courage today will lead to saner, safer and happier children tomorrow. Perhaps their relief is just a click away. Let’s save the planet next year. This year, let’s save our families.
If it’s okay to post this Mike, here is the website:
Great to hear from you THDNE
Yes, our children are so important. You said… “I believe we can all come together at this time to do whatever we can to protect our children from the horrific hell they are living every day, right now, right this minute.”
Dancing Cranberry says
Thank you for your service, Hole, and for your dedication.
Never Clear says
Great comment THDNE. Your valuable insight and commentary has been missed.
Ronit and Yossi, welcome out and I am so glad you made it out with your health and sanity! Your skills are so welcome out here.
Ronit and Yossi – congratulations. Isn’t life easy without the constraints of the church. I wish you all the best. Ronit – your mother is quite something.
Jose Chung says
This has David Miscavige as the source of trouble.
D.M. cannot stand Theta or people winning.
Good Old Boy says
Your close Jose, Dear leader can’t stand not being admired.
Sergeant Pepper says
Just an apology for mangling your names earlier: best wishes Ronit and Yossi!
Wow two wonderful giving and caring people….glad you are out. Welcome to freedom!!
Ronit and Yossi, very well done for making this brave step. Thank you for bringing the truth out. I’m glad that we have such great people with us.
What you say about Flag is true. The people lower on the Bridge have no idea how bad it is there. They believe the PR that it is the best place to go, friendliest place, most in-tech place. So that is their star high goal, to one day make it to Flag. And those people are the hardest to convince of the atrocities, because they believe all the hype. But you talk to the OT VII’s who have been going there for years, and it was never an easy time when it came time to go for Refreshers or 6 month checks. It was stressful and hard to endure the out tech and crush regging that only got worse through the years. The ones who hadn’t been to Flag held on to the hype dream and in my humble opinion, are the hardest ones to disabuse of their false ideas about the church and DM. Those that have done the training and auditing and seen Flag know what it is like. I think that is why so many OT’s and auditor shave left the church.
Thank you VERY VERY much to both of you for the R-factor and behind-the-scene-infos.
And also thanks to all those OT VII’s and OT VIII’s who have ALL given me very carefully crafted NON-ANSWERS and hints, that finally led to lurking on this blog… no names as it’d cost them a fortune on their six-months-check…
…in the end TRUTH will always penetrate even 16″ thick armored steel… 🙂
Yes Cindy, that’s true about Flag, which is the unfriendliest place on Earth. Public on the lower Bridge have no idea what awaits them at Flag and only hear the hype and read the slick advertising.
I was in Scn for quite a while before I went to Flag for my first time and it made the LA orgs look like Disneyland.
Every single person I know on OT7 hates going to Flag for the refresher. They complain about when its “time” and then hold back their disagreement but it’s easy to see it all over their faces and is very telling.
More and more are leaving though and it’s usually those who’ve been around the block a few times.
1. Look at the Fort Harrison
2. Move away from it as far as you can
3. Never go back
Pepper, yep, my thoughts exactly! I hope more and more read the blogs and leave.
Yes, being in the SO starting in the early 2000’s became, essentially, torture of a sort. The environment and culture became terminally toxic and entheta. This environment and culture are the major “product” produced by Miscavige in his career and it has in turn led to the destruction of the Tech (see many examples and indicators of this destruction in just the story contained in the posting above), the destruction of the the ARC of that group (Church members), and the destructive re-purposing of the Church into the largest squirrel group in history by far.
Idle Morgue says
Thank you for speaking out. Welcome and we wish you well with your endeavors too.
It takes courage and strength to come forth and tell your story – but it was the absolute right thing to do.
Scientology is extremely dangerous right now. Abuse is at an all time high amongst staff and now even public.
I have many friends who went to Flag and vowed they would never go back – it is brutal and vicious. It is an extortion machine – placing people under extreme duress, not letting them leave unless they clean out their bank accounts and that has been going on for a very long time….but the trauma of the experience gets introverted back to the person so many stuff it and never talk about it and if they feel upset about it – they think it is “their case”, not a crime committed by their Church. .
It is so evil and dangerous – I am happy people are still leaving.
Ronit and Yossi – What a great story.
My favorite: “Part of the suggested handling by an OSA Executive was that Ronit’s mother MUST do A to E Steps, in spite of the fact that she is 70 years old and NOT a Scientologist.” This made me laugh and laugh and laugh out loud. Insanity at its best.
Thanks for my belly laugh of the day!
Martin Padfield says
That was the stand-out line for me too. Funny, yes, but deeply tragically ironic. This is the Sea Org “getting ethics in on the planet”?! Declaring SP 70-year old “WOGs”! But why stop there? Why not just declare the entire human race? Assign the Internet an Enemy condition. RPF the CEOs of all news networks… Delusion, arrogance and ignorance is a very dangerous combination.
Anyway, Ronit and Yossi, thank you and well done – I read your jaw-dropping write up and it is truly an incredible document. I hope it is read far and wide and helps wake others up.
Ronit and Yossi very well Done!!! I am so proud of you. It’s great to have you on our side. Carmela Weizman, Dror Center, Haifa
Ronit Charny says
Thank you for all the good wishes! Some of you are old friends and some are new. Yossi and I actually experiencing a great relief from publishing our story. The amount of people who are reaching us, is incredible. We LOVE you all and happy to be able to be in comm with you.
Thank you for telling us how far Flag has deviated from common humanity let alone the tech.
Its the most lucid and detailed report I’ve seen on this.
I’ve been promoting the Freezone for 15 years now and have in that time on many occasions
connected people up to auditors. I can’t find contact details for you to do the same.
Please mail me at firstname.lastname@example.org
Bruce Goldman aka Starman8 says
Wow, and well done! – I just had to ack them instead of waiting to read it all.
I knew of them at FSO, and Yossi was my Solo Nots D of P.
Sergeant Pepper says
“For readers of this blog who have decided scientology is not for them, this posting will be of no or very limited interest.” You’re probably right Mike, but I do find it fascinating. The lies and abuses that Ronnie and Yossit have endured pervade what’s left of corporate scientology and exposure like this is the only way to end that evil. Thank you for speaking out. Here’s hoping for their continued advancement towards enlightenment!
I admire the dedication shown by Ronit and Yossi Charny. For those that have experienced value in auditing and enjoyed the times when their local organization seemed to be oriented towards helping others, their story will ring true.
Unfortunately, the rest of their story is eerily similar to the stories of thousands of other Scientologists who were initially excited about the tech, got heavily involved, then discovered that the up close reality of human interactions inside Scientology do not in any way fit the glowing projections of what a “cleared planet” would eventually be like.
The reason is simple: the actual intentions for the tech are not to free beings nor has that ever occurred, at least in the sense of the postulated descriptions of what characteristics a “real” Clear or OT would manifest.
The genuine goodwill towards others exhibited by folks like Ronit and Yossi is similar to the genuine goodwill exhibited by hundreds of earlier auditors and admin execs decades ago when Scientology was flourishing. Those folks too however were crushed by the organization and its conflicting demands, all symptomatic of the difference between the stated intentions of its founder (Hubbard) and the actual hidden motivations to control and dominate others.
This has been going on in Scientology since the 50’s…it is not new, it’s just more malignant now and is stripped bare of earlier pretense.
Scientology has been around long enough that we no longer have to look hopefully to the future to judge the merits of the tech…there is 60+ years of history to ponder and a fair analysis shows that outside of temporal improvement of an individual’s tone, auditing offers precious little in terms of world changing benefits.
Folks like Ronit and Yossi would be well advised to take their genuine goodwill towards mankind and apply it within the framework of other traditions of help that have less history of deliberate contradictions of purpose and outcomes.
The Red Cross comes to mind, as do dozens of other organizations that were not secretly founded on the basis of a demonstrably false life-history of its founder, fraudulent claims about the greater efficacy of its help offering, and fake intentions masquerading as rationalization for the failures to create the very benefits in society that the subject of Scientology is purported to enable.
Ady Schaul says
כל הכבוד ,באמת הגיע הזמן כשלפחות עכשיו תוכלו לקבל את הרמות המתקדמות כמו שנכתבו במקור
One Point Won says
FYI — loose Internet translation of the Hebrew comment from Ady Schaul:
“well done, about time when at least now you can get the advanced levels as originally written…”
כל הכבוד ,באמת הגיע הזמן כשלפחות עכשיו תוכלו לקבל את הרמות המתקדמות כמו שנכתבו במקור
Welcome to Flag, the family friendliest and sanes place on Earth. When DM said “arbitraries cancelled” I guess that was a hypnotic command. From then on he could introduce arbitraries en masse and hardly anyone noticed.
Well, good on you two for withdrawing from the abusive madhouse. I hope your communication is real to at least some of your readers.
Flag as far as I’m concerned started going down hill when Ron left the building.
I remember doing my VI internship there back in the late ’80’s and the Intern Supe being more concerned with my deportment than whether I could audit or not.
Even back then it had a reputation for “Technical Perfection” that it didn’t deserve.
Rlyeh Bob says
Disconnection. There’s a Mormon sect that has been doing something similar.
Sabine Waterkamp says
Welcome out Ronit and Yossi, it’s the place to be.
Ronit and Yossi,
Welcome back to freedom, Welcome back to the light of day!! welcome back to life!!!
It will keep getting better! Well done for your courage to make this step!!
You have now have taken a major step to reduce and fight the abuses and crimes you mention.
And when you can do something about it, as we know, it can no longer suppress you!
Enjoy fully your new operation, beingnesses and FREEDOM!!
Detlef Ruchatz says
Great article. VWD, Ronit and Yossi Charny.
A well told heartwrenching story of off policy, out tech, out ethics within the highest ranks of the CoS.
Scientology is its own worst enemy
Another addition to the Independent field of trained Scientologists. Welcome. :>)
Must be foot bullet Friday!!!!
OSA reports their stats on thursday and friday they get their foot bullet.
Yes and remember folks on foot bullet friday you get a special discount on your request for refund of over 30% that’s 10 times less than you would have gotten under the old CVB guidelines!!!!
Hurry now and take advantage of this special offer!!!!!
My mother was never in Scientology. She had two “momisms” that she was always saying. The one that applies here is: “There is no limit to the amount of good you can do as long as you don’t care who gets the credit.” (The other one is “bloom where you’re planted”). My mother spent her short life caring about and helping people. She found ways to help when others couldn’t, and oftentimes, no one knew she was the one who helped the person. She didn’t care what religion, race, or class someone was.
I am not a big believer in LRH tech, because of how it was applied to me, but I am a believer in people helping other people by whatever means that gives people the relief they seek. Reading Ronit and Yassi’s story reminds me of my mother, who I miss greatly even though she has been dead 31 years. They seem to be the type of people who care that they can make a difference as long as they are not willing to compromise their integrity.
Sorry Ronit and YOssi.
Valerie, your mother sounds like a very generous and wise woman. Those special qualities have been passed on. 🙂
Sucks to be David Miscabbage
I have known Ronit and Yossi for many years. She is an extraordinary auditor and I am glad they both exposed more facts about how really things are inside the so called ‘church’. Their statements are all accurate.
Welcome both and wish you lots of success and expansion.
Wendy M says
Crikey – just when you think you have heard it all – more of the ugly truth comes out! Imagine not ok-ing someone for an attest for wearing black or being overweight or questioning the ideal org programme (geez – no surprise there though, with Miscavige being so “right” about his programmes). Arbitrary ethics orders, galore. Its insane. Ronit and Yossi – welcome out into freedom and sanity. I can tell you are “on purpose” kind of people, and you will be fine. Thank goodness for that. I hope many more like you, follow in your footsteps.
Wendy I took the liberty of correcting your typo: ‘Miscavige being so “right” about his programmes’ should read ‘Miscavige being so “right” about his pogroms.’
Wendy M says
Nice play on words MJ – and so very, very apt!
We aim to please mam. 😉
One day mid 2000’s I got a call from a
young girl who was the daughter of a friend.
She was a MAA. She begged me to come in for an interrogatory.
I asked for info and no answer…so I went for
the reason above…daughter of a friend. When I
arrived to MAA office they gave me a piece of important
looking paper explaining the need to put GAT I into the PL
Keeping Scientology Working (No names on the paper). It was stupid stuff.
I took it back and she took me to a room with another
young lady…meter and cans. I picked up the cans and she
asked what I thought about the “issue” and I said not much.
It was very obvious she had no business at all operating
an e-meter. She then proceeded to ask me if I was
a Scientologist. And I told her I was an interned Cl VI
auditor etc. She then asked me this question….”Have
you ever audited”?
I looked at her in disbelief, put the cans down and walked
So Ronit & Yossi I got a small taste of what you talked
about….very weird, very out ARC and totally not the
Scientology I am familiar with.
Welcome out and many more successes in your field
That’s just too much irony for one day 😉
Sure beats the one when some girl from “International Scientology Management” called me up and asked me why I hadn’t done and wasn’t promoting the “Basics” and I responded by saying that the “Basics” was an arbitrary that prevented the making of auditors.
And you know what her response was?
We’re no longer interested in making auditors anymore we are more interested in making “Scientologists” or something to that effect.
At that point I was so nonplussed I just hung up.
I mean how can you argue with that kinda “logic”?
So true……how do you argue with such logic…..there is really nothing there
to try to duplicate……walk out, hang up are the only logical things to do.
some girl from “International Scientology Management” called me up and asked me why I hadn’t done and wasn’t promoting the “Basics”
My current response to her would be: “Because it’s squirrel, bitch. Any other questions?”
Wonderful story. Mazel tov!
THANK YOU Ronit and Yossi! This is the kind of out tech and crimes I went through while on lines at Flag, partucularly while getting onto OT VII (11 intensives!) and when trying to finish OT VII (12 intensives!), not to mention the “erroneous” Tech Estimates I got (Twice) and other outnesses I perceived were incorrect but couldn’t put my finger on. These are, once again, real criminal acts, real betrayals of trust, real rip-offs, real squirrel tech, etc.
I sincerely appreciate you coming out with this. I have had family members and friends disconnect from me because they don’t believe me. Coming from a very respected Class IX, I hope this wakes up more people to the truth.
Congratulations again, Ronit and Yossi! I emailed you already privately, but I am so proud of your courage to stand up and let the truth be known! I wish you the best and peace and a brisk field practice in the Indie field where standard tech is available.
The atrocities are so big that most KA drinkers would think we made it all up because it is too incredible to be believed. But keep on shining the light on the evil. Keep on publishing real life stories like this, Mike. It is a lot of evil to confront, but the KA drinkers must confront it and get out asap for their own sanity and lives. The “spiritual eternity” BS club that the church holds over members is just that: BS. If you want real spiritual eternity freedom, come get it in the Indie field where the tech is as Ron wrote it, not altered by DM and his RTC minions.
My heart ached to hear how the SO were treated. I knew so many SO at Flag and considered them my comrades. It hurts to know what was done to all of them, the very people who want to help others. And I also think the reason Flag called you to return home fast on both Bar Mitzvahs is because they were terrified that you would get a whiff of a better life and would blow. You were one of the top auditors at Flag, and to have you blown would be a horrible personal slap in DM’s face. I hope he reads your coming out story and sees that you have whistle blown on him and on Flag big time. I hope everyone forwards this to all their KA drinking friends.
Again, VVVWD on your courage, your integrity, and for continuing to deliver standard tech and to help beings because of it. You are flourishing and prospering, a thing that SP’s hate to see.
I think you’re right, Cindy, about the reason for the harassment during the Bar Mitvahs – they wanted to utterly ruin the experience, and they succeeded! After such an experience, I would have avoided another family gathering at all costs to protect scientology from the bad PR!
What is amazing is that even with all the abuse over the years Ronit and Yossi still stayed in because of their willingness to help others.
It’s sad to see them driven out of the COS finally due to the Church abuses, but it’s great that they can now truly use their skills to help 0thers.
Great write up Ronit and Yossi and welcome to Freedom.
Robert Almblad says
Wonderful write-up Ronit and Yossi
In 2005 I completed New OT V at Flag. I could also see these same tech and policy violations. It’s amazing it has continued for so many years. I don’t know why anyone is there.
I am so happy to hear you are auditing all the levels in the field today. It’s the only place to get LRH tech today. Best of luck to you and your family. And, thank you for your courage and dedication to furthering LRH’s technology.
Ronit and Yossi, thank you for your story. Every time former staff like yourselves speak out, it helps the rest of us to understand why things were so weird at FSO and other orgs. It was a very long time before I understood that someone could be banned from Flag just for doing something Miscavige didn’t like. Before that the secret “out quals” were always a mystery to me, because no one would say why. Talk about out list phenomena!
‘The “Contagion of Aberration” spiraling down the command chain was a routine in the Flag AO.’
Joe Pendleton says
And THESE (the folks mentioned here by Ronit) are the “top” CS’s on the planet? Who are willing to take TECHNICAL orders from people personally coming into their office? Ever even HEARD of a little thing called the CS Series? I’ve known a few fine SO members these past 45 years (like Evelyn Bowers, Ruthie Discher, etc) but I do not think that many of the top people in Scientology over the years would ever join the SO, with its many extremely confused and heavily dramatizing members. The whole LOA stuff just another example how fucking crazy these people are. I guess just using plain ole ARC and helping people would have been too easy. Could have had 20 million people in Scn by now, but ……
Exactly right, Joe. It could have done a lot of good.
I agree Joe,
There are some good people in the SO but it seems that these days they are out numbered by whack jobs.
HCO for Image or whatever. What kinda Orwellian post title is that?
From what I remember from actually studying *policy* was that Ron took the image post out of HCO for the reasons numerously listed above. Is other words forcing some kind of “image” down anyones throat didn’t work.
We won’t get into the canceling of disconnection and abolishing Sec Checks thing that occurred after a lengthy survey about what was pissin’ people off most about Scientology.
I mean. Neeeeveeer Miiind.
It seems to me what this criminal conspiracy that calls themselves “management” is good at doing is taking what Ron found as completely unworkable like for instance having a bunch of nimrods in Qual develop a bunch of goofy “drills” to “train” auditors with and reissue this shit and selling people on the idea that it all smells like roses.
Anyway Ronit and Yossi. I’m glad you are among us and I wish you both the best.
Hopefully the lurkers on Mike’s blog will read what you’ve both been through.
Ronit Charny says
I totally agree with you Joe. We could have reached 20 million in scientology by now, but…
Cooper J Kessel says
Looks like the Indie stat is in Power this week. I think Ronit and Yossi were out by 2:00 PM yesterday. A VWD to you both!
Hows that for straight up and vertical? Know this: your crappy little organization is going to continue to diminish until it is completely GONE. You and Lou will be the last of the last. Mike Sutter, Marion Pouw and a few others may be hanging around the trash can looking for scraps but your shitty little group is going to disappear like the arctic ice and there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.
I know, it sucks to be you……..have another scotch and take the rest of the day off.
Chris Shelton aka Galactic Patrol says
Well done on maintaining your integrity and honor, Ronit and Yossi. I’m so glad to hear your entire story and I totally understand what you’ve been through. I wish you both all the success in the world at your endeavors.
Sheldon Goldberg says
Such a great story from 2 people I am proud to know.
Much more freedom out here
So glad they have blown. These are my favorite stories Mike, This story is so contrary to the baloney launched from Miscavige’s mind, that it must be an refreshment (albeit alarming) to those still in who read it. Thank you to Ronit and Yossi for blowing AND sharing why!
This is the kind of thing that sours Miscavige’s breakfast. “Who blew today?”
richelieu jr says
Who blew today? Who blew DM today?
Mike Hobson says
It would appear you have an M/U on the word “blow” – which (in Scientology) is the behavior of someone with Missed Withholds. Departure from a *SUPPRESSIVE* group and environment is a rational pro-survival act and not a case reaction.
Michael A. Hobson
A very astute observation Mike.
Thanks Mike, but “Departure from a *SUPPRESSIVE* group and environment is a rational pro-survival act” just doesn’t have the same ring. And it falls in with common vernacular.
Like “Let’s blow this Popsicle stand”. Let’s blow this cult..
Let’s ditch these droids.
Declaring these people suppressive is the equivalent of saying Gandhi was all about the money.
This is likely the best comment that will ever be posted on this blog. Kudos to you, MJ.
Hoping Along says
Aw shucks guys.
Yes MJ – you said it perfectly. Thank you.
Thanks Pepper. DM is going down!
Joe Pendleton says
The Mahatma was all about any way he could make an extra buck. And talk about shopping? Couldn’t GET him out of the men’s dept at Nordstrom’s! (By the way …. “clearing the planet” by forbidding an accomplished auditor to audit! …. ever hear of “unclear on the concept”? ….. maybe it is true that a group stops itself from expanding so as to keep itself from committing even more overts)