Another provocative essay from our old friend Terra Cognita.
Scientology’s End Game
One of these days David Miscavige will be gone and then what? Will one of his sycophants take over? Or will a more enlightened individual or group seize the reins and usher in a real “new era?”
In order to better understand the end, we should look at the beginning.
L. Ron Hubbard was the self-proclaimed source of everything Scientology. He wrote all the tech. He wrote all the policy. Even if others actually penned a bulletin here or there, he was still Source. He claimed that he discovered everything worthwhile not only within the church but of value to the planet. Unless you believed verbatim what he wrote, there was something wrong with you.
If he was—is—total Source, it’s only logical that he’s responsible for the church’s current sorry state of affairs. Every negative, harmful, and destructive condition within the organization has to be traced back to him.
LRH is responsible for more people having left the church than having remained. He’s responsible for people not applying the tech correctly and not attaining their promised gains. He’s responsible for the IAS, Ideal Orgs, and the church’s twisted finances. He’s responsible for GAT This and GAT That. He’s responsible for breaking up families. And he’s responsible for David Miscavige’s reign of terror.
We can discuss how Ron’s tech and policy have been misinterpreted and misapplied by others, but the responsibility lies squarely at his feet. The specific things he wrote and applied are what have allowed so many transgressions to occur—both on and off his watch.
Did he simply shirk his responsibility toward the end of his life or did he set himself up to fail from the beginning? And if that was his destiny, what were those exact policies and actions that caused the failure?
Few reading this blog would dispute that David Miscavige is an SP—suppressive person—in every sense of the Scientology definition of the word. Whether you believe in LRH’s technology or not, you have to concede that DM has perverted both it and the organization. He has become the epitome of the evil cult leader.
DM is a sociopath but the buck doesn’t stop with him. Specific LRH tech and policy allowed DM to assume his position at the top of the Org Board.
It’s naïve to think everything will return to “normal” once he’s gone. There was never anything “normal” about Scientology from the beginning. There never was a golden era. Although times may have appeared more idyllic in the past, the advertised tech has never worked simply and flawlessly, and except for a few exceptions, orgs were never viable.
The End Game
For those who still wish to see Scientology continue as an organization once Miscavige is gone, dramatic changes will have to be made. Starting with KSW—Keeping Scientology Working. This might be tough to confront for the true believer. How willing would they be to modify, amend, and delete LRH tech and policy? How far would they go?
Would they be willing to rewrite rundowns and levels? Write new checksheets? Revamp ethics policy? Throw out the things that “don’t work?” Revise the structure of the organization? ALTER tech? Throw out KSW? If these kinds of changes aren’t made, there is no hope for any kind of central Scientology organization.
I realize many of you think there is nothing worth saving, but just for fun, who would design and run this “new” Scientology? A select committee of leaders from Advanced Orgs? A benevolent dictator? A small band of enlightened independents? Or is the task simply too monumental and overwhelming? Like a broken Titanic, the church may already be too deep on its dive to the bottom of the sea.
So much ill will and animosity has been generated over the decades that a general amnesty would only scratch the surface. The amount of negative PR the church would have to overcome is staggering.
So for those of you who have left the organization but who still believe in the tech, what’s your plan?
Still not Declared,
I have not previously made a habit of adding my 2 cents directly to any Terra Cognita guest posts, but feel I must here otherwise I am going to have to be repeating myself in response to comments.
I have often said that I felt the answer to the question of what should happen with the church of scientology and the endgame for this subject is this:
Make all dianetics and scientology materials available for free. Catalog and categorize them, put them on the internet for anyone to download — this means EVERYTHING made available including all OT levels, all “advices”, all Flag Orders and administrative issue. Let people freely use and apply them. If people find they work they will be a sensation that will make Pokemon Go look like a tempest in a teapot.
The people who get the best results will be successful and others will come to them for auditing and training. Frankly, a field auditor can make a decent living if they just have to care for their preclears and not worry about paying royalties and percentages and attending events. And if it gets results they will be in enormous demand. A therapist that gets results charging $100 an hour would not be unreasonable. That is $200k income a year for a 40 hour week.
And before the KSW diehards get too bent out of shape, this is what L. Ron Hubbard Hubbard said…
You won’t always be here. But before you go, whisper this to your sons and their sons “The work was free. Keep it so.”
And then in “My Philosophy” he wrote:
The first principle of my own philosophy is that wisdom is meant for anyone who wishes to reach for it.
The second principle of my own philosophy is that it must be capable of being applied.
Learning locked in mildewed books is of little use to anyone and therefore of no value unless it can be used.
The third principle is that any philosophic knowledge is only valuable if it is true or if it works.
There is no need for a bloated organizational hierarchy. It’s only real purposes are: to collect royalties that do NOT go to the author of the works as he is long dead and no longer needs them, otherwise accumulate money (“expand Sea Org Reserves”) by taking a LARGE percentage of whatever anyone pays for services to support the bloated bureaucracy and stash away and to take money from people to engorge bank balances and buy empty buildings. The only other functions the organization performs is to enforce disconnection, attack “critics” (who would almost all be silent if it not were for the ORGANIZATIONAL abuses of scientology) and enforce “standard tech” (a miserable failure).
My view, let Hubbard’s works live or die based on his own philosophy. Make it free. Make it available to anyone who reaches for it. Test its value based only on if it works.
After all, this IS the “perfect dissemination program” he so longed for. It costs nothing and gets his works into the hands of every person with a computer. The thousands of staff around the world doings absolute bs busy-work could ALL become auditors if they so choose… Now THAT is straight up and vertical expansion!
And yes of course it’s all about love. Why else would he die on a cross for us? Jesus said he is the only way.Is that judging or condemning? Was he lying? Do you feel judged & condemned by his statement? This life is very short when compared to eternity. As I already stated before following Christ (being his disciple) is a process.
ROTFLMAO at a total bullsh*tting evader who never speaks to the issues I raise or answers any direct question I pose. You do realize you are exposing your lack of substance to every reader of this blog, right?
Mike Rinder says
I do not know who this is directed at?
Mike, it was a reply to Wynski’s comment on my questions about a post of his. Here’s the quote which appeared in my notifications:
Valkov asks: “Are you saying that you don’t necessarily believe the sun will rise in the Eastern sky tomorrow? Or that the moon might indeed crash into the Earth tonight? You don’t believe these things, you’ll just wait and see?”
To which Wynski replied:
“LMAO at a typical scamologist (one who have NO concept of science and logic)”
My educated guess is that you are replying to Mike Wynski. I’ve said the same kind of thing to him more than once. Whenever he has no good comeback he replies with a sneering insult.
Yes marildi. I just posted the relevant quotes for Mike Rinder.
Barry Bozeman says
My apologies in advance for brutalizing the artform – but I have fun with stuff like this. – a fantasy of fleeting facts.
POETIC IN-JUSTICE of EPIC BETRAYAL
THE FRAGILE FAITH OF LRH
Elron’s message can’t get through
The looking glass that Alice knew
Snow White – the dwarf is such a clue
His Creston Bluebird message true
Was bent and altered through and through
By paranoia he was betrayed –
And Elron’s dwarf a leader made.
Who was this DWARF? You have to ask?
He seized the power to do this task.
Misgivings should occur to you
A Xenu agent? Seek the truth
Ask Dopey if you dare – I do.
No Rundowns are required of you?
No Sec-Check gang-bangs? – folders viewed?
What crimes are yours? – you never show
Entheta or out how does one know?
Misgivings grow with no controls
What audits are required of he
Who seized the power of LRH?
The Commodore 2 admirals named
But Dopey laid those giants low
The Dwarf was strong and on his game
All power was seized – and there remains
Pope’s power is made when Cardinals vote
But transferred here without one note
With Elron’sdeath, the die was cast
All rivals true were cast away
So RPF the Dwarf’s ‘once friends’
Forever in the Hole they go, or try to blow
And lose their Hats forever gone
Like Hatter’s mad at evening tea
So late – too late the rabbit says
So let’s be CLEAR the war is lost
Misgivings win is Elron’s Loss
Xenu’s Dwarf has seized control
The rank and file can never know.
For Xenu is this victory?
Slow death of Scientology
The Dwarf Misgivings bloody rich
Yells “lock her up” and jails the bitch
He rides his bike with Gunner Crude
And nabs some young and nubile child
While Shelly rots in iso-hell
A ghost that haunts a mountain cell.
While Dwarf rides Gulfstream’s round the world
To build and open Ideal Orgs
He CLEARS the life from seekers new
CLEARS their accounts and CLEARS their souls
And leaves them Cleared as Sea Org slaves
While lawyers rage and keep him free.
From every legal scrutiny.
The Freewinds is his private yacht
The slave force Sea Org keeps maintained
And filled with awestruck OT eights
Who fuel his trips through tropic seas
This Dwarf is now a Deity –
A living God upon the Sea
Untouchable and living large
This God of Cult, the Lord of Fraud
He took the lies of LRH and seized the cult
That serves his greed – a huge and ever growing need.
So level up and pay the freight
You Sea Org slaves will work so late
Yes SIR, Yes Sir more books to sell
More tests to take and lies to tell
Your lot in life is misery – your souls are lost
You are not free – The Bridge is but a fiction made
To steal your fire, your faith, and soul
Look in your heart where truth is made
An open book for you to know.
When leaders say you must not read
You cannot speak to those SP’s
You cannot seek or view harsh words
Must disconnect with loves of old
A Christian knows the tests of Job
How Jesus spent those 40 nights
Siddhartha left his cloistered life
And chose to face a world of strife
Abraham was shown the knife
And told to take Son Isaac’s life
But Scientologists can’t withstand
The petty doubts and lies of man?
What cowards they, these mewling wimps
Who cannot face the AFTERMATH and
GOING CLEAR is such a fright
Like Rinder’s Blog or Hawkins book or
Paulette Cooper’s lovely look.
Or even daddy’s Ruthless take.
You might be wealthy and secure
But life will end while souls endure
And thus come find eternal fire
Where Greed may meet the true God’s ire.
I hope people take the time to read this ???
L Yash says
Pass the Kleenex……..the tears were flowing….its a true wake up call. I only wish it could be passed on to “celebs” and wannabe Sea Org juniors whose minds might be reached. Beautifully done Barry, thank you!
Terra, I agree with all that you said except for your statement that “specific” LRH policy allowed David Miscavige to take control. Now, I’m not saying I won’t agree with this either but I’m wondering what policy or policies precipitated DM’s takeover, because according to all I’ve read on the Internet, it appears that DM ignored and perverted LRH policy in order to grab the reins and in so doing was tacitly enabled by others via their not preventing him from doing so. Correct me, please, if I’m wrong; I have no vested interest in being right about this and I have no desire to press anyone’s buttons and cause a furor on this point. I am merely seeking to learn, to be informed, so please, people, don’t pile on me with generalizations and/or vitriol! The question is answerable with naming specific policy.
Mike Wynski says
Aqua, you are right. There was ZERO policy from Hubbard about succession when he died. (there is a myth running around that LRH ordered some elaborate checks and balances set up to be used upon his death to run scientology but that is a lie)
The complete lack intructions left the absolute dictators seat (Hubbard’s) up for grabs. That is common in absolute dictatorships.
Mike Rinder says
Well, this is partly true and partly false.
It is not a myth that Hubbard set up elaborate checks and balances between CSI, RTC and CST. Each in one way policed the other — the details are too arcane to go into here, they are covered on other websites. This was all put in place to ensure no one “hostile to scientology” could ever take over.
What is also true — and one of the great inconsistencies in the story of Hubbard’s end — is that despite the fact he “causatively left his body to continue his OT research” he did not causatively bother to write or record any message to scientologists himself. The “great communicator” who had written thousands of pages and delivered thousands of lectures and had even sung songs to his scientologist followers, gave no “final message” that said “This is what I want done, these are the people who have my trust, here is what I am doing, I will/will not be back, etc etc” It is TOTALLY out of character. It is perhaps the most telling indicator that he just gave up at the end and that the account of Sarge Pfauth is very accurate.
Hubbard ALWAYS wrote about everything that was on his mind. But NOTHING at the end of his life about how he must “discard his earthly vessel”?
There was an issue about Pat and Annie Broeker succeeding him. Miscavige then said it was a fake. Which of those two do you believe? But it is precisely the point — the guy who made an elaborate affivadit to a court with dated ink and fingerprints to prove he was alive and well, couldn’t even pull out his elaborate recording equipment and get out a 10 minute message IN HIS VOICE? Or even a “Ron’s Journal” issue? Nothing?
Dylan Gill says
That is exactly what I thought watching the death event. When the issue came out I was at flag. It Was issued far and wide, sounded like it was LRHs last message until the issue was cancelled. Throwing the brokers under the bus. As a member of cmo cw at the time, it left most if us wondering wtf. Quite the nifty little mystery.
Yes Mike, very well observed.
Mike Wynski says
Mike, given that LRH ALWAYS either recorded (voice) or hand-wrote official policies/orders, etc., and that Pat could NOT produce either one regarding their promotion, I’ll go with the theory that he lied.
Mike Rinder says
Might be correct. But it’s not true everything was recorded or handwritten. He typed a lot of stuff himself.
ANd how do you know there was not an audio recording of the transcription of that issue? Because Dave said so?
Mike R and Mike W, thank you both for your detailed answers and input! Certainly, LRH leaving no comm at his passing is a huge Contrary Fact, a huge outpoint which of itself may be obfuscating a number of other glaring outpoints, given LRH’s lifelong communication habits. Its totally out of character and a fascinating mystery, indeed! I’m addicted to detective fiction and this is better than anything I’ve read in a long time!
In my view, it was not out of character for LRH to not write anything at the end. It was an outpoint to us that he did not care to make a good transition of power for “man’s only hope,” man’s last chance”, “mankind’s best friend.”
But it was obviously not important to Ron; obviously!
L Ron Hubbard did not care to leave this earth with a reasonable transition of power because Ron did not care. It’s that simple.
He marketed to us his importance as the universe savior, but in the end he left us with nothing but a vacuum. A vacuum left by hiding from the law and his crimes of false advertising and tax evasion.
Enter Mr. David “I assumed power” Miscavige. With a host of doctrinal weapons to destroy critics and assume and keep power.
What was important at the end was Ron obsessing over the imaginary space aliens in his head and writing Battlefield Earth.
And because Ron was delusional at the end, he trusted David MIscavige to be the filter between his “cult” and himself.
How many people who knew MIscavige said he was a very angry violent man.
Yet Ron did not know this? Mr. OT freebeing- psychic- mind reading- Buddha
was not aware enough to spot Dave on the tone scale??
Ron was a con man. A huckster. An expert in mind manipulation.
L Ron Hubbard left nothing at the end because L Ron Hubbard knew that he was not the savior of the universe. He knew what is true intention was; power and money. He left us nothing at the because he had nothing.
If L Ron Hubbard truly cared about us, his students, he would have done something significant at the end of life.
He did nothing. And that is evidence of him not giving a shit.
IT was a sham all along.
Mike Wynski says
No Mike, I’m going to follow lex parsimoniae. There was no such document.
Mike Rinder says
No problem. I don’t know the truth about this — though I could argue with you that lex parsimoniae applies to the idea that if there is any document or recording from Hubbard that states or intimates anyone other than Miscavige should be in charge it was destroyed by Miscavige to protect his position.
Mike Wynski says
That wouldn’t fit lex parsimoniae because that would include Pat being too stupid to make even ONE verifiable copy of the issue that he knew was his golden key to the future and he KNEW what a conniving prick DM was.
lex parsimoniae is about the most likely based on simplicity. Simply look on it how it would be done if YOU were in Pat’s position.
No, it’s like the upper OT levels. They don’t exist. And never did.
Mike Rinder says
Yes, but Pat was in no position to make any claim. He was hustled onto a plane to DC to be informed by Jerry Feffer to make no trouble and disappear or he would be put in jail for his tax crimes. But, this is all speculation that doesn’t matter anyway. Hubbard did NOT anoint anyone to replace him.
Cathy Leslie says
Really Mike?? Here I thought that was someONE so I Google him
I could of used that course to be forced to learn to dictionary
I will carry on
Mike, thanks for that. I particularly appreciate your nice example of showing how the various inconsistencies surrounding popularized accounts of event such as Hubbard’s death, make that version implausible, and suggest something quite different.
The suggestions that Hubbard intended for Scientology’s organizations to run on their own without a leader, presumably until his expected reincarnation, do seem plausible to me. If that were the case, he failed to account for the fact that the he had himself set up mechanisms to maintain covert personal control in spite of the organizational façade, and that someone else could use them to assume leadership.
I have also long wondered if Hubbard was not taking an odd cue from the history of the occult group Ordo Templi Orientis (OTO), a branch of which he was involved in alongside Jack Parsons in the late 1940s. OTO’s previous German leader Theodor Reuss has been said (by some accounts) to have deliberately left the organization without a designated successor, expecting that a struggle for leadership would allow whoever was truly the strongest candidate to rise to power. Plus Reuss’ gradual demise after a stroke, and the clever assumption of power by Aleister Crowley (who Hubbard admiringly referenced, and dubiously claimed as a “good friend”), is in fact eerily similar to what happened with Hubbard and Miscavige.
Bolivar, The Responsibility of Leaders.
This became his bible. He included it in the Ethics Book.
This writing became DM’s instruction manual on how to rise and keep power. He saw LRH deteriorating and decided to assume power.
This writing gives instruction on how to keep and support power.
Miscavige assumed this power and unleashed the instruction of The Responsibility of Leaders.
I am writing an essay on this. All those close to Miscavige said that this doctrine was DM’s go to bible.
And DM’s take away instruction from Bolivar was to act like Nazi youth:
1) disassociate from common laws of decency
2) see violence as an essential element of serving and keeping power
3) developing a “freightening level of bravery” to overcome a sense of right and wrong, thus seeeing harming people as the practical thing to do.
The last part of Bolivar is Ron’s instruction on was against the enemy.
DM became expert in applying Bolivar.
A low intelligence angry boy was given a loaded weapon: the training and philosophy of violence to save mankind’s “only hope”.
Terra Cognita says
Yes, Brian. Responsibility of Leaders!
Terra Cognita says
Aqua: The policies that allowed DM to take over are ones such as KSW that removed self-determinism from people, and tech that caused people to think they were the cause for everything bad or that didn’t seem right. People believed they had overts, they had MU’s, they had study problems. It was never DM, it was other people’s out-ethics.
LRH created a system where one, single magnetic individual could seize control and manipulate the minds of his followers.
Compounded was the militaristic organization LRH created. Orders were to be followed, not questioned. The ends justified the means. People were indoctrinated to believe they were doing the greatest good for the greatest number of dynamics. So if a few families had to be broken up here and there, so be it.
I know I haven’t given you specific policy letters and bulletins, but if I had to guess, just about everything LRH wrote, in some way contributed to the current situation.
Terra, thanks for your reply. As regards those close to and observing Miscavige back in the day, I can definitely see how O/W tech could introvert them into believing they were solely, personally responsible for all failures.
Having said that, there ARE outpoints, just as there are pluspoints. Applying one’s own Overt/Withold and the Overt Motivator sequence to the observance of outpoints is simply a misapplication of auditing tech. Spotting outpoints and pluspoints is admin tech. Doing this correctly has nothing whatsoever to do with one’s one’s own personal case. Apples and oranges, strictly.
Mike, I love your dissem solution. Love it. AND, I think its the ONLY way that Scientology has ANY chance of continuing at all once DM dies and all the 60-something Still INs pass away.
Jen Smith says
Here is the funny thing about Hubbard’s writings and how he packaged his basic ideas that he created at the beginning. If people found these techniques helpful in their day to day life, he could have made money honestly, without creating the pretense of a false religion. Scientology I don’t think can continue to exist as a religion. But maybe it’s methods could be incorporated into some new idea.
while following a link on info about SCIENTOLOGY and Deaths…i saw a list of celebs that r supposedly SCI and my fave journalist Greta VanSestern’s name was there..i was appalled..anyone know if this is true?
Mike Rinder says
YEs, she and her husband John Coale have been long term, high level scientologists. They have a home near the “spiritual headquarters” in Clearwater FL
Maggie C says
The so-called “E-Meter” is just wrong people! The person doing the auditing is just another inferior human judging another inferior human! If people are searching for the meaning of life why do they not open a bible. One day (and probably not too far away) Christ will appear and ALL of mankind will bow to HIM. Please, please open your bibles and find out how to have a meaningful life here and for eternity! It’s a life that WILL NOT LET you down, especially if you put as much trust in the loving Christ, holy son of the Living God as you have these occults! You will KNOW what REAL LOVE is and be content on this earth! I PRAY YOU read the Bible – start with the New Testament and read, read, read!
Well put. And Yes let’s agree in prayer that they respond to the love of God who loves them wholeheartedly, unconditionally, so much more than we can ever imagine. For God is love ❤️ my heart aches for all the pain they have gone through and are still going through. I can only imagine how much more our Gods does
First of all, calling people “inferior” is just as bad as $cientologists who think they’re superior to anyone who isn’t one of them. That was quite a rude and arrogant thing to say.
Secondly, it’s fine that you believe in the Bible, but telling people it’s the only way to have a “meaningful life” and be “content” is, again, the same exact thing $cientologists say.
Think about it.
By chance I happened to look through a Bible yesterday. After many years of not reading one, I found it to be a bizarre, incoherent set of ramblings not unlike a Hubbard lecture in some respects.
To each his own as long as it doesn’t end up abusing others.
To me the most important thing IS love, regardless of beliefs.
Katherine Goree says
Nomnom, I pray you find discernment to understand God’s Word. If you open your heart it is a very beautiful and powerful thing.
Xenu and LRH views of “religion” is so far fetched. He alone wrote it.
“Far fetched”…Katherine, I’m no Xenu fan and have fundamental disagreements with much of Co$ policy, but please, fair is fair! Seriously, you’re advising we get back to the common sense, literal Bible with its talking snakes, whales who swallow men and keep them in their stomach alive for 3 days and then spit them out unharmed, arcs which hold a male and a female of every species for 40 days and 40 nights, and a man who just grew in a woman’s womb who had no contact with a man’s sperm…I could go on. You’re “praying” that we find “discernment” to believe this, huh? And in order for one to understand this, one must, “open one’s heart”.
Well, guess what? The people who believe in Xenu also had to open their hearts.
And, while we are “opening our hearts” we’d better be at the same time closing down our ability to think.
Jen Smith says
Christ is not the only way to know love. Regardless of religion, I believe, we have innate traits as to what it is to be human. Call it human connection and consciousness or whatever one subscribes to, whatever path you take is fine as long as it’s based in love, kindness and compassion for ourselves and others. I truly believe those die hard Scientologists or any other fundamentalists still have these innate traits that make us human. They are just misguided, lost, hidden or under the surface, or reserved for those only in their own group. We all want to connect and fit in, we all want to find meaning and purpose. I think the Bible is one way to know love but there are many others. Just my 2 cents.
That was lovely, Jen.
Every fundamentalist – whether they be Scientologist, Mormon, LDS, Evangelical Christian, hardcore fanatic Jew, jihadist Muslim, etc., – anyone who is a true hardcore believer in any religion or cult is a closed minded, “THIS way or the highway”, “THIS is the path or you’re doomed forever”, “don’t confuse me with the facts my mind is made up”, fixed very certain of being right and MUST be right, type of person and you’ll find that this inability to have other viewpoints seeps into other areas of his or her life, to his or her detriment. Such a person is to be pitied, and, in my opinion, avoided, mostly because it bores me to deal with them, so I leave them alone and let them be right and cling to their solutions. They stay comfortable and secure in their fictions and I avoid unnecessary boredom.
“For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth on him should not perish, but have eternal life. For God sent not the Son into the world to judge the world; but that the world should be saved through him. He that believeth on him is not judged: he that believeth not hath been judged already, because he hath not believed on the name of the only begotten Son of God.”
John 3:16-18 ASV
“With a mind that knows no otherness, think of me alone and I will take care of your getting and your keeping”. Lord Krishna to Arjuna, “Bhagavad Gita”
Roger- wonderful “counterbalance” quote. I am enjoying the lively discussions of varying belief systems and religious thought. Guess you could say I’m a “hardcore” Christian (born and raised Catholic, now Methodist) and learning a lot.
Aqua – The characterization of ‘anyone and everyone’ in describing us hardcore believers, is falling into the same ‘group think’ trap of scientology. Although I’m Christian, I have read and studied Judaism, Mormonism, Seventh Day, Native American, Islam and yes, even Wicca. I’m not close minded to anyone else’s point of view and find enrichment in the dialogue.
In the final analysis, to the believer, no proof, no validation, is necessary for them…that’s why it’s called Faith.
I was raised Roman Catholic, attended an all girls Catholic boarding school and then entered the convent after graduation. I left and returned to the lay life after two years. Now, at 50, I have come to the opinion that God, in whatever form one chooses, is probably a lot simpler than man makes Him/Her out to be. If one believes that God (again in whatever form) created the earth, (and I am talking about evolution, not about the belief in a talking snake story) then look around at the incredible diversity that exists. If God had wanted uniform conformity then why is nature so strange, different and wonderful? As part of that creation we are all different and unique as well. To me this means that if we are made in the image of “God” and “God” cannot be defined, then every single one of us is wonderful and loved. Every one. Without exception. Gay, straight, whatever color, creed…ALL of us. All that is expected of us is to be the best people we can be. To be kind to each other. To accept each other. Basic human law already addresses the evils of murder, stealing, etc. one does not need to be Christian or Muslim or whatever to understand offenses against society and basic immorality. The minute Man decides HE has the ability to pigeonhole God, that He has the ONE way, then all Hell breaks loose. When people start deciding that God wants things done THIS way and no other then suddenly God becomes small and angry and intolerant and…wait is that God or people…
If we spent our time just trying to “better the planet” (tee hee) by caring for each other instead of looking askance at each other there would be so much more peace in the world. Alas but I suppose these are as unreachable ideals as attaining the ability to move things with my mind. *sigh*
I will say that the courage that Mike and Leah and the others who are stepping up and speaking out to try and expose the truths of Scientology is amazing and I, as someone who does believe in a higher power, think that God is blessing this endeavor.
If you want to read some good Bronze Age books of fiction concerning gods and mortals, may I recommend The Epic Of Gilgamesh or The Iliad instead of the Bible? They’re much better written, more believable, and the translations from the original are more authentic.
Mike Wynski says
Espi, as a scholar you will find this recent, authenticated find of interest. Even if Christendom is not as excited.
Mike you guys are making an impact! Your TV series is excellent and exposes the truth. Keep it up!
The more I learn about Scientology the more I remember about one of my favorite books as a child. A Wrinkle in Time. It so seems like the world that Scientology wants to create is the same one controlled by IT. Scientology does so much to destroy healthy, supportive relationships with the way it treats it’s members and through the horror of Disconnection. Once the planet is Cleared, what then? Families and friendships have been destroyed but by golly war and disease are gone. Do we then each step out of our identical houses, on to our identical porches and watch our children bouncing their identical balls in identical rhythm? Is that the utopia Scientology is working towards? No thanks. Perhaps, as a Never-In, I cannot understand the appeal of the consequences of Clearing the Planet and working up the Bridge.
And then I remember; “Suddenly she knew! She knew! Love. Love is what she had that IT didn’t have!” -Madeline L’engle, A Wrinkle in Time
The people of Scientology, the families, the individuals- they need to be saved. Not Scientology.
Terril Park says
“Make all dianetics and scientology materials available for free. Catalog and categorize them, put them on the internet for anyone to download — this means EVERYTHING made available including all OT levels, all “advices”, all Flag Orders and administrative issue. Let people freely use and apply them. If people find they work they will be a sensation that will make Pokemon Go look like a tempest in a teapot.”
I like your comments Mike, and its worth saying that what you propose
has in fact happened. Ron’s Org have much of the materials freely available
on a Dutch website which cannot be attacked by COS. They are also
available elsewhere. Independents and FZers have been delivering everything
available in Scn Tech apart from L’s for at least 16 years, and L’s have been delivered for some years now and RONS Orgs had 25 L’s auditors the last I heard a few years ago.The COS rarely if at all try to stop this. Independent
Scn is probably the same size as COS nowdays. My rough estimate comes to around 10,000. The last escapee from Hemet to speak out, DMs architect, says that those still in are between 10-20,000 and management dosn’t know what to do about that. Attendances at “mandatory events” would seem to validate that.
Mike Wynski says
There seems to be a general idea that the church (a series of corporations) will suddenly “fall” and/or DM will “fall” thus allowing a chance for “outsiders” to take over.
There really is no easily available mechanism that others can use to accomplish that. The loss of tax exempt status WILL harm income but it WON’T suddenly and magically greatly deplete EXISTING assets.
If DM dropped dead, THOROUGHLY brainwashed lackeys like Marc Y. David B., Norman S. or others would cobble together some type of 2-4 person hierarchy and trudge forward as they have no real choice in their own mind. What the hell else can they do from their prospective? They have no other means of living…
In order to predict that future actions of an “enemy” one HAS to be able to assume their mindset and position, no matter how distasteful.
If I may change the optics of this discussion for a moment, and refocus: the internet, vis-a-vis global endpoint-to-endpoint direct communication has changed the world. We have seen numerous uprisings, revolutions, protests as its global nature has been realized by people at all levels of society and political philosophies. Warfare has become ‘asymmetric’. Environmental crimes have become ‘normal’.
Communist China ‘solved’ the sovereignty problem by clamping down on human rights, implementing “China Intranet” with single sign on authentication via cell phone, and installing ‘the great firewall of China’ surveillance state. Some how I believe this scenario was a fate accompli in the prior election, given the amount of astroturfing for the dems. Xi Jinping is currently in Davos beating the drum for “economic globalization”. But he is not open to opening China’s markets. Western companies have all had to remove apps from their app stores, and engage in self censoring to remain ‘in the chinese market’. And ‘forbidding’
reincarnation within China without prior application and approval is a fact in the PRC.
And while an argument can be made that DM is their ‘Kim Jong-un’, in the West, and the sycophantic press encourages psychopathic world “leaders” (Duterte in the Phillipines, etc); the question for me is: How can we as human beings dis-empower the psychopaths, and maintain our sovereignty and right to self-determination? I recently had a health care issue which required interaction with ‘health care professionals’. The took it personally when I refused their medications with out explanations and proof.
The “Divine Right of Kings” supposedly died with the Magna Carta. The Trade treaties (Trans Pacific, NAFTA, etc) all include verbiage to force disputes into Arbitration, by passing local laws…this to me is the broader issue that will define the US in the near and mid range future.
More Shit Update:
After a rough day of yanking in New Zealand, you may want to stay away from Club Med in Hemet.
The third storm system is now dumping about 1 inch of rain per hour. The first two storms have created IDEAL conditions by saturating the hillsides surrounding Club Med. This third storm is now capable of causing large mud and rock slides into the catch basin and engulfing much of Building 50. Have you made it clear to Norman, Marc, Ray and Heber that they will be in charge of cleaning up after the Mud Fest?
Perhaps Tom can put you up in his Clearwater condo for awhile.
Carl Sagan, with his characteristic intelligence makes a central point in his writings that we humans — all of us — are greatly perturbed by fear, anxiety and uncertainty, and in seeking to comfprt ourselves, sometimes anchor ourselves to irrational and ignorant ideologies that offer certitude and stability, however illusory. In understanding those who succumb to such false refuges, Sagan calls for “compassion for kindred spirits in a common quest.” This echoes 21-year-old Hillary Rodham’s precocious assertion that “we are all of us exploring a world that none of us understand,”
All words to live by, to be sure, but compassion is harder, if not impossible, to summon when innocents – and innocence – are compromised.
This is my gravest concern here – the children and the ruinous joyless lives imposed upon them by Scientology. I applaud this movement for this alone.
Saving even one child – surely, all of this is worth it.
Dan Locke says
William Burroughs, one-time ardent Scientologist and famous for many things, including his writing and experimental film, had issues almost entirely and solely with the organizational aspects of Scientology – not just the policies, but the fact that there was an organization created for it at all.
When he left Scientology, he wrote about it at length, in a British magazine, “Mayfair”. An excerpt:
“In view of the fact that my articles and statements on Scientology may have influenced young people to associate themselves with the so-called Church of Scientology, I feel an obligation to make my present views on the subject quite clear. Some of the techniques are highly valuable and warrant further study and experimentation. The E Meter is a useful device (many variations of this instrument are possible).
“On the other hand I am in flat disagreement with the organisational policy. No body of knowledge needs an organisational policy. Organisational policy can only impede the advancement of knowledge. There is a basic incompatibility between any organisation and freedom of thought. Suppose Newton had founded a Church of Newtonian Physics and refused to show his formulae to anyone who doubted the tenets of New Ionian Physics?
“All organisations create organisational necessities. It is precisely the organisational necessities of Scientology that have prevented Scientology from obtaining the serious consideration merited by the importance of Mr Hubbard’s discoveries.”
Later in the article he says, “As to my personal evaluation after six months of study, I would not be writing this article unless I was convinced that Scientology is worth serious consideration. I feel that I have benefited greatly from Scientology processing.”
“To summarise my personal impressions: I feel that Scientology has scratched some surfaces and turned up some leads. Experimentation and research carried out by workers in the fields of electronics, virology, cybernetics, biology and operant conditioning could result in revolutionary advances.
“Mr Hubbard says that the mere sight of his confidential materials would make any WOG (his revealing term to designate those unversed in Scientology) violently sick. I can claim some experience and skill in the scrivener’s trade but I could not undertake to write a few words guaranteed to make any appreciable number of readers physically sick.
“So if this claim is justified it is certainly a matter for investigation. I am sure that volunteers in abundance would step forward. Who would pass up the opportunity to read such potent prose? A headache or the loss of the last supper is a small price to pay. This is not a frivolous suggestion. If words can make people vomit, how are these particular words affecting the vomiting centres in the hypothalamus? Only an actual test can give us the answer.
“If the Scientologists persist in self-imposed isolation and in withholding their materials from those best qualified to evaluate and use them, they may well find themselves bypassed.
“Mr Hubbard says he wants recognition for his discoveries. Well let him then show his confidential materials free of charge and without any restrictions to qualified workers in other fields.
“He says he has the road to freedom. Others have been a long time on that road. At the Edinburgh Writers’ Conference in 1962 Alex Trocchi coined the phrase ‘astronauts of inner space’. Let Mr Hubbard show his confidential materials to the astronauts of inner space: Alex Trocchi, Brion Gysin, Allen Ginsberg, Timothy Leary; to anthropologists like Julian Huxley and Castaneda; to psychiatrists like Ronnie Laing; to political leaders like Mao Tse Tung, who said ‘the real battle is inside our skulls.’
“Let him show his materials to mathematicians, physicists, computer programmers, biologists, film directors and virologists, to students of language like Marshall MacLuhan and Noam Chompsky. Let him show his materials to those who have fought for freedom in the streets: Eldridge Cleaver, Stokeley Carmichael, Abe Hoffman, Dick Gregory, to the veterans of Chicago, Paris and Mexico City. Above all young people have a right to see his materials.
“So let him set up a centre and give his processing and materials free of charge and without any restrictions of any kind to anyone under the age of 25. If he has what he says he has, the results should be cataclysmic. And the mass application of other techniques now available should produce even more interesting results.”
“Unimaginable extensions of awareness are now possible in terms of existing techniques. Let’s set up a centre where all these techniques are pooled and interchanged. Let’s explore and chart inner space. Your inner space belongs to you. It is time to demand what is yours and to challenge anyone who claims to have knowledge of inner space to come out and show what he has.”
Here’s the complete article:
Thanks Dan. Very interesting.
Terra Cognita says
Powerful words. Thanks.
Dan, thanks for posting excerpts from the William Burroughs article.
Written at a time it needed to be written. And ignored by Hubbard programmed followers.
Burroughs advice covers viewing any technical discoveries.
For anyone who’s interested, the full text of Burrough’s article is here: https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2015/09/07/i-william-burroughs-challenge-you-l-ron-hubbard-burroughs-versus-hubbard-pt-1of-2/ and Hubbard’s reply to it here: https://scicrit.wordpress.com/2015/09/08/l-ron-hubbards-reply-to-william-burroughs-burroughs-versus-hubbard-pt-2-of-2/
It’s amazing that Hubbard actually replied, but he did, a few months later. Characteristically, he didn’t address any of the issues raised, and lined up the usual scapegoats, instead.
While I’m not affiliated with Scientology and never darkened its door I’ve been interested it from the prospective of it being a Cult.
As a younger person hearing Travolta and wife were members, Kirsti Alley, Cruse, Leah, Lisa Presley and her Mom were all part of this with reports of people escaping always floored me!
I so appreciate Aftermath as I’m learning the Why of it all!
All the blog posts shed light in what is a very dark cult!
sad Ron Hubbard didn’t just write the script & have a movie made like star trek powerhouse & collect the royalties & make his fans happy the Easier way rather than all of this w e meter business & a Business it is,he had a wild mind I’ll give him that but the movie version would’ve been way easier & Less painful but I agree w Mike this man w others know there stuff & I wish past & present ppl the best…
Mike I like your ideas of make it free and let free enterprise take over and it will make it on its own or die. Terra Cognita was wrong about GAT. That was Davey’s doing, and not Ron’s. And if someone did take over the church upon Davey’s demise or incarceration, my suggestion is to change the name of the church just like Amway did. That way they get to leave the bad PR behind and hide behind a new name just like Amway did.
I too watched Going Clear last night. I’ve always known Scientology was a cult & cant imagine why or how anyone would want this thing to continue in any manner. He was a mad man that found a following. For heavens sake let this cult die once and for all!! How many more people & innocent children have to suffer?!? Pray that this horrible organization crumbles without any means of resurrecting!!! There is one God & a devil. We are spiritual beings that will live on. We have been given free will. Let’s chose the one ☝️ who created us, the one who sent his one & only Son Jesus.
Good People says
We are all God’s children.
“I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians.Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” -Gandhi
So very true sadly. There are many who cal themselves “christians” but not many who call themselves Christ followers. Those that truly do radiate Gods light. Following Him is a process. It is not an easy road. “…but be transformed by the renewing of the mind…” How? By the Word of God. B.I.B.L.E. Basis instructions before leaving earth.
My two cents:
Anyone who loves others as themselves, anyone who loves God, anyone who seeks humility as a virtue; is a Christian.
Whether they are humanists, Jews, Hindus… whatever.
Internalized and practiced principles are senior to labels and membership cards.
Having an identity of being a Christian does not make one a follower of Christ.
Living certain principles does.
In that regard there can be an atheist who lives these principles who can be a better Christian than the person who claims being born again but does not live the life.
We will find out when Jesus comes for his people as he said he would.
This is all I need to know. If he says this is the highest commandment, then it is reasonable to conclude that living these principles makes us his student.
36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
When a teacher teaches, and the student follows, that is called disciple ( From the word discipline; one who learns by practicing certain disciplines.)
Loving others and loving God is a practice, a life style.
Me, I’m not waiting to die to see the Lord. If he is within my own heart now than he is with me always; in life and death.
It was Constantine who defined the present day Christianity. By declaring heresy any books not approved, he was source of making anyone who does not think the same as evil or heretics.
We are growing past this “only way” fixed ideas that condemn others.
The Supreme Being is so much more benevolent than this petty judgement of others.
That is my view Sarah.
Ghandi also said about Christianity, “Its a wonderful philosophy. I would like to see it applied”. So true.
I just saw the documentary Going Clear, and I’m now reading the book. I’ve read Jenna Miscavige’s book, I’ve read Bare Faced Messiah, I’ve read Leah’s book, and I’ve watched many documentaries on youtube. I think that Scientology is a farce. It is certainly NOT a religion. It’s the insane writings of an insane man. I think that most people believe they are spiritual beings. I was raised Roman Catholic, and though I’m no longer practicing, I am a spiritual being, and I do believe in a greater power. I can’t believe how they are getting away with being a religion, not paying taxes. Seriously? It is shocking to me, after reading and seeing so much garbage about it. David Miscavige is suffering from some form of mental illness himself. Also, why is he never visible? No interviews since Dan Rather? He is obviously hiding from something. No, I don’t believe that Scientology can or will exist after him. I hope the whole thing falls apart now, because of Leah and Mike’s eye opening documentary series. I hope the FBI and the IRS do something NOW. Thank you for opening our eyes to such a horrible cult.
What Dan Rather interview? Link please. Or you mean Ted Koppel 1992?
icybluesite, so you’ve read all those books by other people. Have you rrad any books about Scientology that Hubbard wrote?
Why open the door to evil by reading lrh’s books?
Buber Zionist (@buberzionist) says
Debbie Cook denied LRH had anything to do with the current IAS, and showed it’s contrary to his policy. LRH is to blame for most of CoSs faults but maybe not for the IAS
Mike Rinder says
That is true. It was conceived and implemented without any input from LRH.
“So for those of you who have left the organization but who still believe in the tech, what’s your plan?”
well, to answer your question, although I am not an indie auditor,
Let’s say I hang up my shingle for auditing services, and let’s say there is no Central Org aka local COS Church aka Idle Org, and let’s say there is no Sea Org or Int Management, no nothing like any organization.
I imagine I would have up on my wall a chart of the Bridge to Total Freedom chart and I would tell clients that is what we are achieving, all those levels and steps “up the bridge” along with all the stated EP’s on that chart.
Some questions some clients might ask:
1. Did you make this up?
2. What are your credentials?
3. Can you show me a “clear” or “OT”?
4. Why should I believe you?
5. What happened to LRH? what happened to the old COS?
6. Can I talk with some of your current clients and/or past ones?
Would the indie auditor say something like just google scientology?
Barbara Carr says
I think I might be asking ” Who the hell is Xanu?”
Katy Lied says
See, I believe a good auditor could circumvent all these questions with one policy: First auditing session free. There will always be people willing to try new paths to spiritual enlightenment. And if the session is a success, people will come back for more. If it truly is a win for them, then it becomes true for them.
And a good auditing practitioner can help people experience real improvement not because the planet must be cleared for everyone, but because those who have immediate, gratifying and measurable wins will continue to come and partake of scientology with a small “s.”
Mike Wynski says
UTR, if you hung out a shingle for scamology services you would starve before you made enough to live a bare bones existence. All but cave dwellers & the brainwashed now know it is a dangerous scam.
This is entirely false. It is, as Trump might say, an “alternative fact”, as I know several people who are doing fine with their shingles out.
I think Mike is right. Anyway from a scientology viewpoint they have a HUGE ARC broken field. So, at any expense they will have to clean it, Meaning refunding some, listening and auditing for free somme other etc…
But Miscavige seems to be in good health. No overweight like Hubbard, sport etc… He can continue the next 30 years. Most of the bloggers here will not survive Miscavige.
But, he may get into big trouble and be fired, i do hope so.
You are too funny FG. who the hell is going to fire DM, do you mean the lawyers, I don’t think so. LOL
I think somebody will let him down. Opinion leader. Debbie Cook with her letter made the biggest strike. You couldn’t count the number of people leaving the church and attacking Miscavige in 2012.
Now, it would be maybe Tom Cruise or John Travolta becoming aware of the horror of disconnection, He will be let down by more public, more opinion leader, and one day there will be a rebellion inside, and he will be dismissed and charged for his many crimes.
Mike Wynski says
FG, you don’t understand corp law. He cannot be dismissed by underlings. And EVERYONE who is a corp officer has signed undated resignations… As far as charging with crimes, unlikely as that requires enough evidence…
Anyone can be fired one day or another. Miscavige will have his turn. Anyhow that’s the only option. By denouncing him relentlesly there will be more more and more people who will want him fired.
Mike Rinder says
He cannot be fired by anyone.
FG, David Miscavige cannot be “fired”, but conceptually I agree with you; “every dog has his day”, and something, someone, somehow COULD cause the demand for his resignation. I believe this possibility exists.
And, as I’m very fond of them and think highly of them, for using this aphorism in connection with the ecclesiastical leader of the Scientology religion, I offer my sincere apologies to dogs everywhere.
FG, No one has the power to unseat or replace C.O.B. Miscavige. There is no “board” for which he is “Chairman” of, it’s a title that he gave himself.
Your belief that one day an internal struggle and rebellion will unseat him is not realistic, as Miscavige has systematically eliminated all potential threats to his supreme rule. That is why he imprisoned the entire ‘executive strata’ in ‘the hole’, to make sure no one could become strong enough to challenge his authority.
That is why he dismantled the “watchdog” association that Hubbard set up to have checks and balances on power, and that is why DM declared Hubbard’s last order invalid (the one allocating authority to Pat & Annie Broeker), that is why he isolated and imprisoned his wife Shelly, if you recall she gave several ‘orders’ for things to be done including making a new ‘org board’ – all higher level calls that DM only intended to do himself. Her mistake was in assuming some of the ‘power’ that DM holds himself, so she became a threat to his authority and had to be neutralized.
Debbie Cook after years of service looked to be too popular to DM, held in too high esteem, so he had to crush her so she would not ever be able to challenge his authority, same for the President Heber Jentzsch, and long-term members such as Guillaume Lesevre, Mike Rinder, Marty Rathbun. Miscavige has effectively eliminated all challenges to his authority. The ones he could not keep under his power, who escaped, have become his most outspoken critics and eventually, will hopefully bring his empire down.
You theorized about 2 celebrities; I don’t think Travolta will ever renounce Scientology. It is too much woven into the fabric of his life and part of what he is, and he is too weak to even look at his chosen ‘religion’ critically, let alone think of leaving or heaven forbid, ever speaking out. Everyone around him is Scientology including his wife, he cannot extricate himself, and they have all his secrets that he does not want talked about, it effectively keeps him in check.
Tom Cruise idolizes DM and loves to emulate him, he wants to hold the same kind of power, he revels in it. Cruise would be more likely to take over from DM than to leave Scientology.
The good news is that Scientology is rapidly shrinking, not expanding, thanks to the internet, where information is free, fast, and extensive, and thanks to Anonymous, and activists of all sorts, and ex-members who are brave enough to speak out, like Leah Remini and Mike Rinder.
Harpoona Frittata says
FG, you’re more optimistic about the possibility of reform coming from within than I am. As far as I can see, he consolidated his power decades ago and has been ruthlessly ruling with iron hand ever since. Yet there is no murmuring within the still-in folks that I’ve detected, no voice of opposition or calls for transparency…nothing but crickets.
This is pseudo-military group with a very rigid top-down power hierarchy that’s been purged, and then purged again, of high-ranking $ea Orgy execs who might even potentially pose a threat to his tyrannical rule. So, I just don’t see any kind of palace coup arising from the inside.
Perhaps if one or more of the cult’s top celebs, like TC or JT, was to really spill the beans and directly implicate the lil homewrecker for his efforts to manipulate, coerce and control their lives it might catalyze an exodus from the cult of other celebs and whales. However, I’m definitely not holding my breath there!
Shelley Jackson says
Great article, and great Editor’s note, Mike. I agree – let the “tech” stand on its on own merit – and the chips will fall where they do.
Idle Morgue says
The Chips have already fallen
Scientology is a total and utter SCAM
Old Surfer Dude says
Nothing redeeming about it. Absolutely nothing…
I wouldn’t go quite that far. What I liked about scientology and how it actually did help me was by asking questions about the meanings of words, grammatical terms, etc and if you didn’t know them you looked them up. It helped my education tremendously to do this. Society throws all manner of terminology at us, sometimes you are afraid to ask for meanings in case it makes you look stupid, scientology has the opposite approach, you are encouraged to learn what words mean. Their insistence that if you didn’t understand some hubbard policy letter or had a disagreement with it was due to misunderstood words is stupid, and very cult like behaviour but I don’t see the harm in being encouraged to look things up.
I have to agree. The importance placed on knowing the meanings of words and symbols I’m dealing with caused me to be more exacting in my thinking. This mental discipline I acquired from study tech ultimately gave me the facility to debunk almost everything I ever read in scientology.
Putting learning to good use! I wish I could claim the same, it wasn’t until I was ready to leave that the real nature of scientology began to dawn on me.
Gimpy – totally agree with you on this. Study tech and looking up words was great for me. At the time it’s always a pain in the butt to look up BUT understanding language expands knowledge greatly.
O/T To All Under the Radars lurking here: I want to invite you to watch videos of today’s #WomensMarch from around the world today. I wanted you to know I was thinking about you throughout the day today. Over 3 million people showed up with a couple messages that ran through the river of world citizens today: Love not Hate was one. The other simply Human Rights for all.
When it comes to human rights, Scientology has consistently acted to squelch and snuff them out. If you take in the sights of what happened today, you will see for yourselves what I have inadequately been trying to say. You have had the power all along, when united and working together. The ridicule you hear helps no one but works to deflect and weaken your resolve.
Sister march sites from around the globe reported being overwhelmed by the unexpected shear masses of people who showed up. I have no doubt, especially with the wave of compassion and ears and eyes on the Scientology expose on A&E that if you all stand up now, you will also be overwhelmed by the numbers of us who will stand with you. Your silence is understandable. It is also deafening. Please join us in standing up for Your human rights as a Scientologist. That’s right! You have human rights too.
Silence is not ethical obedience. It is free speech denied.
Old Surfer Dude says
+1! Outstanding post, THDE! The more people who tell their story, give others hope! Please speak out…
One speaking for “3 million” is an usurpation; getusedtoit.
Mary Smith says
It was disgusting that Scientogists were handing out human rights booklets at the rally in St. Petersburg
I’ve had some thoughts on this subject after running across the various sites on SCN
I believe that various LRH writings go on about requiring exchange – they need to sell stuff in order for it to be viable. Well, nothing says you can’t cut prices. Sell e-books for 99 cents, or access to a LRH online library as part of the basic Scientology membership fee. People will still want physical books and such, just sell them at cost. Also, seriously discount the e-meters. Do you want to clear the planet, or pad your bank account? Make your decision.
Allow more trading of service for auditing time. Generally, move to a more volunteer-oriented model. Staff SO people get paid a living wage or the equivalent in room and board.
Pay people back who left, and pay for the retirement / health care of SO members.
You could easily do this for a tiny fraction of the money spent on PIs and lawyers.
Lastly, end disconnection. End the abuse. Eliminate the OSA – just keep staff counsel to review contracts and represent you if you get sued.
It occurs to me that TC did pose to us the final question “So for those of you who have left the organization but who still believe in the tech, what’s your plan?” and so I’m wondering how much we can keep comments on that topic, at least more or less.
The initial premise is that someday Miscavige will be gone, but I think it’s worth noting that for a man with money and access to good nutrition and health care, their statistical lifespan is in the mid-80s. And I recently cited the example of Robert Mugabe, who at 92 is still the authoritarian ruler of Zimbabwe, in spite of serious political opposition and an economy that has been collapsing since the beginning of this three decades of rule. So I think that anyone truly concerned with what comes after Miscavige or with reformation, should be considering what actions will speed “regime change,” rather than just waiting for something to change.
I also want to buttress TC’s point that “Every negative, harmful, and destructive condition within the organization has to be traced back to” Hubbard. I’ve looked at Hubbard’s record, and from his “affirmation” of the late 1940s that “Material things are yours for the asking. Men are your slaves.” (conceded as authentic by the CoS in court), year after year one can find the writings and evidence of a psychopathic personality even when public pronouncements and actions sometimes seemed more benign. In the early 1950s, the public and historical records document Hubbard’s cruel abuse of his wife and daughter (Sara and Alexis, both of whom he later denied were even his family), and his bitter and paranoia-infused splits with virtually all of his original partners and associates in Dianetics. In the mid 1960s, when Hubbard had his own ships and no constraints, there is overwhelming testimony that he personally oversaw abuses of the very young and the old like the “overboarding” of people including those who could not swim, confinement to the ship’s cramped and dangerous “chain lockers” for periods of up to a month, and finally the development of the RPF for punishment and then of the RPF’s RPF for those he saw as not sufficiently chastised. When the Sea Org came ashore, the methods of control and abuse that had evolved on the ships were then expanded throughout Scientology, eventually overwhelming the free-spirited energy that a tide of new members had brought to the missions and organizations in the 1960s and 1970s. And Jesse Prince says that Miscavige’s first violence came when he carried out orders from Hubbard to slap and spit on people, a practice started on the ships and attested to by several of the other former messengers.
To those like Mike who want to “make all dianetics and scientology materials available for free,” I would point out that is not unreasonable as Scientology already has enough reserves to be able to afford to do that virtually forever if they decided (or were forced) to. Scientology’s reported assets, if accessed the way most non-profits use their endowments, would produce upwards of $100 million a year for operating expenses even if there were no income from other sources.
Perhaps one of the challenges and opportunities for those who want to see something good come from all the effort and resources put into Scientology, is to help fight to see that the organizations’ assets get put to good use in the end. Money left “on account” should be returned to individuals, or their heirs. People who donated for elaborate buildings, should get back a share from the sale of those buildings. Members who made payments and donations to the IAS that were “out exchange” according to even Scientology’s own doctrine, should get some sort of consideration, if only something like rights to vote for members of the bodies overseeing spending and distribution of Scientology assets. Those who may have been damaged psychologically, should be given resources to receive treatment of their own choice, even if it’s more auditing. Children denied a proper education should receive support to at least get their GEDs. Former and current staff members including Sea Org should have reasonable payments made on their behalf into Social Security or some other retirement vehicle, as well as payment for necessary treatments to assess and repair the damage from physical and psychological abuses. And there should probably even be some sort of what I think we should call “slave labor reparations” for those who toiled long hours for little or no pay, especially those who were effectively imprisoned in forced labor camps like the RPF. Proper research into Dianetics and Scientology processes, both to prove any possible benefits and to check for possible harms, should be funded. But given all that, any new management that truly took (or were legally forced to take) responsibility for Scientology’s current conditions and past “overts” might find itself hard pressed to even find money for operating expenses.
You do not take into account smoking or swilling scotch or massive (even though mostly self-induced) stress in your longevity calculations. I can’t imagine Miscavige living more than 10-20 more years without either blowing a gasket due to all the outside pressure or being arrested.
Valerie, current research shows that longevity often has more to do with genetics – which explains the anecdotes about people in their 90s and older who still smoke and drink. The elder Miscavige turns 81 this month, and seems to be going strong. So I think that you have to take into account the possibility that Scientology’s current leader could quite long-lived. For anything to happen, “outside pressure” is likely to be required, not waiting or hoping that the authorities will finally act on their own.
If the COS is to fold – which looks inevitable – then the reserves should used for good works.
Compensation for ill treatment by the Church would be hard to determine for each individual – and if left to the courts, Muffins McBlink would be the type to benefit. I think she has received enough compensation – don’t ya’ll.
So, in order for the harmed to be helped, a foundation should be set up for ex-Scientologists. Offering assistance in various ways; like – counselling, education (GED classes, etc.), job placement, financial planning counselling, family reunification support and maybe even some basic life skills training. Also, maybe some assistance to Seniors, who would probably need financial & medical assistance after spending so much time and money on/in the COS and whose time to learn new skills and/or earn an income is limited.
Same can be said, if that foundation continues to sell COS materials. Maybe reduce the cost (significantly) of the materials and the proceeds/profits funnel back into the foundation to continue with assistance.
I am not nor have ever been a Scientologist, but it seems the money in reserves is for those who survived. If the mandate of Scientology, was that all that money was to help people; well this would be the time.
It is a complex issue for sure, but ideally, the money could do something other than pamper Tom Cruise and DM.
Katy Lied says
There would be no need for better conditions for the Sea Org because there would be no Sea Org. One doesn’t have to worship Sigmund Freud as a god in order to benefit from psychoanalysis at the hands of a skilled practitioner.
Amen to that!!
Terra Cognita says
Thanks, Mike, for your Editor’s Note. I wholly agree with you.
However this all plays out, it will be interesting to see what becomes of the church’s vast wealth. What will happen to all its real estate? What will happen to all its money? Which is distributed all over the world.
I can see the whole shebang going into some sort of receivership in the US, with others countries to follow. Then again, the US government may continue their policy of separation of church and state and not want to touch things.
With so much money and real estate at stake, there’s bound to be a fight for control.
John Doe says
A major problem for Scientology to continue into the future is the vast, unedited bulk of it.
In many of Hubbard’s lectures, the substance of the lecture (an actual useful nugget or bit of tech) can be imparted in about ten minutes out of the 60 minutes of the length of the lecture. Hubbard rambles on for the remaining 50 minutes, telling long stories, delivering bitter diatribes against philosophers, psychs, government people, etc. Im sure he felt he ja d to give those original attendees their money’s worth.
If you were to pay tens of thousands of dollars “to avail yourself of the legacy of Hubbard’s tech,” you’ve got a lot of skin in the game. So you stick with it.
If all the tech were free and downloadable, I’d bet very few people would be invested enough to endure the slog through all those pages and all those hours of rambling lectures.
Particularly younger people who’ve only known a google-able world were you get fast answers to anything (whether those answers are right or not is irrelevant the the mindset of instantaneous answers.)
Good People says
Great point John Doe. At my most ‘innest’ point I couldn’t stand the study tapes. I should have followed my instincts and I would have faired well. The only three things I would do and recommend in Scientology are 1. Basic Study Manual. 2, Book 1 secondaries. 3. TR0. All of which can be done outside the cult.
Idle Morgue says
L Ron Hubbard’s lectures were part of the mind control techniques. Sitting for hours, days, weeks and months listening to his DRIVEL.
CHANGE a persons Behavior, Information, Thoughts and Emotions. The BITE model Steve Hassan talks about.
Get you to CHANGE YOUR BEHAVIOR unknowingly. You change your life when you do Scientology — then Scientology traps you in their life and you become a slave.
Todd Cray says
Interestingly, if the “church” were to follow Mike’s suggestions, scientology could finally find the legitimacy that “Dr” Hubbard so desperately sought–as a religion, philosophy or “alternative science.”
Given the quality and character of Ron’s materials (or Ron’s person), naturally most folks would reject it outright as overwhelmingly improbable and ridiculous, or at least ignore it. But then again, there is not one religion, philosophy or “alternative science” that isn’t rejected by more folks than it is embraced by. Such are the realities of the marketplace for anything, including ideas.
But can you imagine having to pay royalties every time you recite the Lord’s Prayer? Or pay upfront for the next 12.5 communions you intend to take?
Once the “tech” (be it real or make believe) is in the public domain (as it is now anyway for all intents and purposes), people can practice it individually, form churches, philosophical discussion groups, test its efficacy academically or seek/provide services similar to those of your neighborhood counselor, psychic or palm reader.
Of course, “believers” would have to give up the idea of coercing compliance in others or taking over the planet. But at least they can hope that such an outcome may organically materialize, if that fantasy makes them feel better. On the positive side, they would perhaps be considered odd (in a harmless way), but no longer a reviled laughing stock.
Cathy Leslie says
Interestingly, if the “church” were to follow Mike’s suggestions, scientology could finally find the legitimacy that “Dr” Hubbard so desperately sought–as a religion, philosophy or “alternative science.”
The legitimacy that LRon sought was…..money
I think that if things were to happen with Scientology and it fell apart, the goverment would step in and cease the legitimacy of the “church”
After that , it’ll be a domino effect as the IRS will follow.
It would be nice that everyone was taken care of first.
My perspective as a ‘Never-in’ is $cientology is based on lies, and the lies are being exposed in a way never seen before. And when it becomes obvious to everyone the little that works in $cientology is based on other disciplines Hubbard stole and repackaged, the less anyone will feel drawn to $cientology. And when Miscavige is gone, and the infighting starts, the states and the Feds will finally start going after $cientology’s assests.
L. Ron Hubbard says
“I realize many of you think there is nothing worth saving, but just for fun, who would design and run this “new” Scientology? A select committee of leaders from Advanced Orgs? A benevolent dictator? A small band of enlightened independents? Or is the task simply too monumental and overwhelming?”
Just look to any other cult or pyramid scheme and copy or do what they do… The Moonies, Amway, Bernie Madoff etc. Isn’t that basically how this organization was founded and organized anyway.
Scientology will be diluted over and over like any other ideology.
My view is the first question, the most important question; was L Ron Hubbard insane?
For Scientology to morph into something useful, Ron needs to be dethroned and given the scrutiny and criticism he was so pathologically terrified of. L Ron Hubbard; the sacred cow needs to be barbecued with the scalpel of discrimination.
Was L Ron Hubbard an insane genius? I say yes.
Then, once this foundation stone is laid down the next question should be:
Which doctrines were written by Ron the crazy insane person and which doctrines are benevolent.
To accomplish this, the person needs to be pretty advanced spiritually. I do not know of anyone who has the advanced discriminating intelligence to sort it out.
If anyone still uses Scientology and has not yet concluded that L Ron Hubbard was bat shit crazy, I would not trust my mind with that person. And that goes for the delusional OT/BT doctrine.
It induces disassociation from reality.
It is possible, as our civilization continues in its ever expanding knowledge and wisdom of the soul and the Spirit, parts of Scientology’s controlled inner looking may be scavenged and used in newer updated forms.
There is nothing wrong with looking within with reason, focus and discriminating intelligence, to find direct perception of newly revealed knowledge of the mind, soul and Spirit.
The church as we see it today will probably be gone in a few decades. The weight of its misdeeds and crap PR are much too heavy for it to endure.
But people will continue to love playing with those “Mind Games” forever.
But first Ron needs to be seen as he is/was; bat shit crazy.
John Doe says
To accomplish this, the person needs to be pretty advanced spiritually. I do not know of anyone who has the advanced discriminating intelligence to sort it out.
A few years back, I had similar concerns. To accomplish such a daunting task would take an exceptional person.
Just who is the person to separate what is valuable and should be kept, what should be laughed at and left by the side of the road, and what is toxic, and should be deeply buried?
A little while later, I realized I already knew who that person should be.
It is me.
To elevate someone else to do that for you is to simply sign on to a new guru.
What about BTs as the cause for human suffering?
Isn’t it interesting that the highest form of auditing, the beloved goal of all Scientologists, the OT levels, may be the most looney?
How do you separate out the real from the unreal?
Regarding teachers; I love teachers. Especially the ones who teach me to think for myself.
If I can learn medicine or music from an accomplished teacher, I can learn about the soul and life from a spiritual master. One who is master of himself. That’s what spiritual master means.
So how will you investigate Scientology John? How will you apply scientific procedures to verify truth?
To dismantle Scientology, first there needs to be a dismantling of Ron’s mental state.
Scientology will always be, and always was, the mind of L Ron Hubbard made into doctrines, practices and world views.
The world view of a true believing Scientologist is that our condition on earth comes from 75,000,000 years ago.
That is quite a task for anyone to sort through.
Insanity; that is the first limb to be cut out of this institution.
Think that thought folks. Think it for a moment. For those on the fence it is not easy to ponder.
But try to think this thought comfortable in a new unit of time:
THE COMMODORE WAS INSANE!
AND SUFFERED FROM AN INABILITY FOR CLOSE, INTIMATE FAMILY RELATIONS.
That is why he had no feelings for what he did to Paulette Cooper.
That is why his son’s suicide illicited only anger not grief
That is why he wrote The GE is a Family Man
That is why he could toss his wife out like a used up rag
That is why he could put young children in chain lockers
That is why he put sympathy below hate on the tone scale
The entire OT levels are Ron’s attempt at dealing with the voices in his head.
The OT levels are the projection of Ron’s unbalanced mental state.
Ron’s genius is that he was able to create a “religion” based upon his insanity and get us to define that insanity as spiritual knowledge and wisdom.
An inability to see Ron as insane is evidence of brainwashing.
The man who you entrusted your mind and soul to thought all psychiatrists were from the planet Farsec.
To still have the man on a philosophical pedestal after knowing this is to be in agreement with a self induced insanity; the death of logic and reason.
The destruction reason and logical thinking is the by product of being a Scientology.
You have summed it up greatly! Especially here:
“Ron’s genius is that he was able to create a “religion” based upon his insanity and get us to define that insanity as spiritual knowledge and wisdom.”
Yes! To the Scientologist the highest auditing process is to free space aliens from their bodies.
I like to call the what they are; space aliens. They are from outer space and they are alien to this planet; space aliens.
The Scientologist uses the word BT. That term normalizes the concept for the true believer, somewhat.
And because the Scientologist gets blips on the meter and brings their minds to a cognition, this becomes proof of the reality of Xenu and other of Ron’s mental and emotional delusions.
Ron’s schizoid tendency of hearing voices, his mental habit of seeing enemies everywhere, his pathological persecution complex……………………
is the essence of the OT levels.
Some huge cosmic drama, right out of his Sci Fi imagination, then becomes the evil force trying to stop “mankind’s only hope”, “mankind’s best friend”, “mankind’s only hope”.
Then the Scientologist has to pay and be trained to hear the voices of space aliens.
In the wog world you are given medication when the voices in your head become different from you.
In Scientology you pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to instill those voices with:
1) believing in Ron’s authority
2) taking the OT courses
3) disassociating from reality and becoming an elite, arrogant, super powered, delusional OT who is on the vanguard of the only people on earth to know the truth and save the universe!
This is complete, unadulterated, self induced madness.
The OT materials not only create a delusional doctrinal bubble around its victim, it denigrates and invalidates every other school of wisdom in the last tens of thousands of years.
The OT levels are a crime against:
1) the evolution of intelligence
2) philosophy itself
3) spiritual practice other than Scientology.
The OT levels is where the Scientology acquires Ron’s advanced form of delusional disassociation from reality.
AND CONSIDERS IT SPIRITUAL KNOWLEDGE!!
The OT levels distort our ability to think our own thoughts.
The OT levels brought Ron to wish to end his life to free himself from his own desperate thoughts, imagining them as space aliens, while wishing for suicide.
Wishing for suicide was Ron’s last OT level.
L Ron Hubbard needs to diagnosed. His genius of articulation and his creative visualization masked the deep mental problems he had.
L Ron Hubbard was a crazy person that we trusted with our minds, our souls and our very lives.
When I was able to accept this comfortably, something very deep in me resolved.
Sounds like Trumps opinion of himself, which he affirms daily.
Which part sounds like Trump’s opinion of himself?
marildi, I looked his post over and I think I was reacting to this part:
“3) disassociating from reality and becoming an elite, arrogant, super powered, delusional OT who is on the vanguard of the only people on earth to know the truth and save the universe(America)!”
I think there is a similarity there to how Trump thinks of himself – that he is the only one who can make America great again, against great odds, because he is like a smart person, a very smart person who knows more about ISIS, China, and negotiating, than anyone, blah blah etc etc. Did you read/hear his acceptance speech? He painted America as a dystopian, post-holocaustal landscape which only he could “make great again”. Sounded to me a lot like the worst parts of the KSW thing, where he was Man’s only hope blah blah. That’s Trump, too. And I still think parts of KSW actually make sense. And some parts of Trump make sense. Now I’m wondering who fingered Trump to come in and be the hatchet man for the existing scene, and how “they” will handle him as things move along. Or maybe paranoia is contagious?
Thanks, Val, got what you meant. Yes, there are similarities between the two men, and they aren’t pretty ones. But the differences are much greater in terms of actual accomplishments, as well as beingness and intelligence. IMO, LRH came up with some groundbreaking self-betterment applications, – and we have yet to see what TRump will achieve. For that reason, I don’t think it’s fair to compare the two.
marildi, I agree. At most, it is a comparison of a kind of symptom they might have in common, possibly an inevitable result of using positive affirmations on oneself., nothing more. Diagnostivc categories are not really the measure of a person, they are at best caricatures. I think Hubbard did as you say, put together some really valuable stuff in unique ways. But he crashed and burned towards the end.
I just found it fascinating that they both apparently used self-glorifying”positive affirmations”, which are simply self-hypnosis, th einstallation of an automatism. Hubbrd commented on the perils or downside of Coueism(self-hypnosis) in, I believe, DMSMH. There can be reactions, he said.
Back in the 1960s, it was the common word on the street that using speed over the long term often resulted in paranoia; perhaps something similar happens when one uses manic affirmations for a long time.
Or perhaps it is only some people that experience that effect. In fact, it is possible that both of them not only used affirmations, but stimulant drugs at times. I believe I’ve read something about Trump getting such from his Doctor. As for Hubbard, Dexedrine was American medicine’s choice mood elevator, antidepressant, activity and alertness enhancer of the mid 20th century, Shots of “vitamin B” were commonly administered by MDs, and these usually also contained Dex. Stimulant use to enhance introspection goes back to Freud and probably earlier.
Well, I guess you get my drift so I’ll shut up with my ruminations now. Always nice talking with you, marildi!
Always nice talking with you, too, Val!
For a unique take on the pros and cons of LRH, check out the new website of someone who knew him personally and worked closely with him in most of the ’60s and ’70s: urqbones.com. Our old friend Vinnie has already discovered it. 🙂
Thanks marildi! I just went and read Urq’s blog. Very nice. Vinnie, as usual, sealed his own fate there. It didn’t take Urq long to pick up on it.
Yeah, I saw that. Urq (Ken) is very straightforward but with a lot of ARC. That’s his auditor training. He was a Class IX and audited in the NOTs HGC at Flag until he left (in ’82, I think he said).
Glad you liked what you read. Maybe I’ll see you over there for future articles. It should be interesting – I like the purpose.
Brian: I find these posts and thoughts to be very helpful. Thank you.
This is the sort of help I come here for.
I’m glad secretfornow. I’m glad they make sense to you and help.
You’re welcome 😉
An organization founded on the insane, toxic, dysfunctional musings of a man who was obviously formed and scarred by his childhood and feelings of inadequacy is going to infect it’s members. All the stories LRH made up and insisted were true about his so-called adventures along with his fury when one of his colleagues challenged him about them show that he was unsure of the line between reality and fantasy. As with other charismatic but damaged people Hubbard was able to manipulate people into his world. From then on, the controlling, narcissistic and manipulative Miscavige has continued to keep the members in isolated captivity. While I want to be clear about my earlier comments- I do not wish to offend anyone. I am not belittling Mr. Rinder, Leah or anyone else who has had the courage to escape in any way. I admire and respect what they have done and what they are still doing. My point was, as is made here with Brian’s comment- Scientology was broken from it’s inception. It’s goals are unattainable and it’s methods are not healthy. Therefore, rather that try and find a way to make LRH’s unstable technologies and writings healthy and workable it might be better to decide that it is too broken to fix and focus instead on repairing the damage done to all those who dedicated their lives to it.
Is emulating Christ an attainable goal? Is it “healthy” to try to be like Christ?
Harpoona Frittata says
“To dismantle Scientology, first there needs to be a dismantling of Ron’s mental state.”
There are a lot of ways of going about, none of which are mutually exclusive. Elron was undoubtedly one crazy old coot when he finally died the same mere mortal death that awaits us all. In order to discredit the cult and undermine the false claims and faux religious aspects of $cn, it’s also important to point to the major lies that Elron told about the objective facts of his life history and those that were told by his successor about his physical/mental condition at the time of his death.
He was not just crazy, he was also a pathological liar and a sociopath.
“He was not just crazy, he was also a pathological liar and a sociopath.” And so, apparently, is DM. I read an article about the super secret base near Lake Arrowhead. (also where the armed guards were allegedly hired to guard Shelly) This article said that this was where members of the organization were painstakingly recording all of the works of LRH as well as digging deep bunkers to store and protect these works. The article mentioned that it is believed that Elron is out there so,ewhere in the ether waiting to return as a child. This Elron the second would be raised at this secret bunker until he was old enough to take back over. I could not help but wonder when I read that, if perhaps DM might actually believe that he and Shelly are destined to be the parents of this new body for Elron. If so, then it would make sense that DM would be keeping Shelly locked up tight. If they were the parents of the new Elron, DM could influence the future of Scientology in a whole new way.
The “one shot clear” (a Scientology term) to as is (see for what it is) Scientology is to deconstruct Hubbard from his pedestal of well marketed lies and PR.
He sold us his hero status, but his fear of critics and hatred of them is who he was; an intellectual coward.
I have an idea who Terra Incognita is and it’s probably wrong.
Old Surfer Dude says
Give it a shot, anyways.
L. Ron Hubbard says
Nice Editor’s Note. Spot on!
gato rojo says
All the thinking I’ve done in this direction pretty much goes with what Mike has already stated. I’d like to throw in my two cents about one thing.
I think we should completely lose, destroy, shred anything that has to do with the sea org, the GO and OSA. Let a field practitioner make use of the services already in existence that everyone else uses. (PR, legal, etc.) And let’s get rid of that “we take care of our own” mentality. By using sea org, GO and OSA polilcies to do that, great harm has been done to individuals and families in all areas of their lives.
Let’s use another one of Hubbard’s references when he says “abide by the laws of the land.”
Can anyone come up with a reason to keep that stuff? It came out of Hubbard’s fears that he was being followed or that people were trying to rip off his tech, right? I may be wrong but my understanding is that the very small number of staff who were supposed to see that stuff and use it (especially GO and OSA instructions) just ended up growing to anyone and everyone to use it suppressively. And it looks like it’s behind all the activity that kept making being in the sea org and on staff and a public member more and more untenable.
Oh, and we’re not on the sea anymore. Let’s move away from their present day literal interpretations of very dated “customs” and information.
I envision some strong-willed Independents taking over when Miscavige has his “retirement”. The new team will want to do emergency repairs and there will be so many opinions about how it should be done and to what extent that the situation will require a dictatorial leader to keep them in line and quiet.
There will be people with money to arrange herculean damage control efforts in the media. There will be new hope and beautiful new promises. The scientologist’s voracious appetite for wondrous and jubilant celebrations will be fed for a while. There will be so much love and optimism just like the summer of love in 1967. And then somebody will write a knowledge report on somebody….
TC & MR, so very well written. Both commentaries, truly. I continue to learn so much, and find it all so incredibly fascinating and heart-wrenching. LRH was obviously a very intelligent, tortured soul. I can’t help but find myself wishing that he could have used his powers and intellect for good, instead of evil. Scientology at it’s very basic core – is to me, provocative. I can certainly understand the allure for anyone out there who may be, or may have been searching.
Ever notice that the only real buzz about scientology is about your demise and writing your obituary?
“Terra, you ignorant sl*t!” (Not intended as ad ad hom, with apologies to SNL and Dan Akroyd. ahh, those were different times…)
It has been an observation of mine through years of participation in the ‘scientology diaspora’ that the vast majority of Scntsts never understood Scientology or aspects thereof. “When people can’t get results from what they think is standard practice, they can be counted upon to squirrel to some degree.”
(And for any Invader Zim fans, I like squirrels…https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_-EtWMCQ2s)
Least virulent of these were trained and interned auditors, who had gained some proficiency in the discipline of application as regards TR’s, metering and grade chart actions. The worst were the non-auditor professional pc’s and ex-staff who blew off study time. They were trapped and manipulated through purposes, commonalities (mutual out rudiments, clear the planet, etc) interest, senses of ethics, and emotional wavelengths, especially curiosity. This would turn on roboticism in people…..prime example Sea Orgers. And that is what we have in present time…..ronbots glibly asserting their primacy in the midst of Epic Fail. smh
In your case, I see your prison of belief is “responsibility as blame”. Asserting Hubbard as Total Cause may seem a neat stable datum, but then I have to ask how it is that you are even motivated to write about it? If he was Total Cause, where does that place you?
“I shouted out ‘Who killed the Kennedys?’ when after all, it was you and me…(Rolling Stones – Sympathy for the Devil.)
OK. The natter boards are full of such debates, with viewpoints ranging from above 2.0 and higher
(http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?24234-a-bedtime-story-about-KSW-1) to other-stuck-in-similar fixed, beloe 2.0, robotic viewpoints. Ah well. everyone starts somewhere.
All I suggest is that we all learn to respect the Sanctity of the Dharma (Dharma is an Eastern term whose Western equivalents might include morality, ethics, virtue, righteousness and purity. Sadly, most of those terms are distinctly unfashionable in our modern culture. Yet it is Dharma by which the seeker of truth can evolve to gnosis……from http://www.hinduwisdom.info/articles_hinduism/36.htm) for all beings, and that centers for learning the technical discipline of application be established and maintained. No need to entangle with Religion.
For those that deny their ‘beingness’, who insist on atheistic materialism; to whom Axiom 1 is pure codswallop, well, good luck to you. Hey there is even an antarctic ice shelf you can inhabit and claim “first free (from Scientology) land ,mass.
Tom, awesome post. Especially relevant and insightful were the first few paragraphs, ending with the quote from Rolling Stones: “I shouted out ‘Who killed the Kennedys?’ when after all, it was you and me…”
Some of what you wrote have been my observations too, but not nearly as well articulated. Thanks for posting.
Terra Cognita says
Tom: Love your SNL and Stones references!
Every good Scientologist is taught that Hubbard is Source. He may not be the source of all knowledge, but he is the source of Scientology and per his own definitions of full responsibility and pan-determinism, he is responsible for its current condition.
That said, I’m not suggesting others aren’t responsible, too. There is certainly more than enough of that to go around.
I like what you said about Dharma. Too bad the concept is “unfashionable in our modern culture.
Thanks TC. (I have to admit that I was hoping for a “Tom, You Pompous As*” beginning if there were to be a response from you…..just to maintain the “form of the joke” as it were. 🙂 )
There is enough ‘popery’ in the world. That bozo Jeff Bezos has turned the Washington Post into a click farm either leading you to amazon.com or to editorial piece telling you what to think or how to process world events…..enough please. Observe, and make up your own mind.
Mike Wynski says
Tom, just another Ronbot who only knows the “Scotsman” card. Pathetic.
Old Surfer Dude says
I’m Scottish, but, I’ve never heard of the “Scotsman” card. Please enlighten me!!
Mike Rinder says
It’s been used here before. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman
Old Surfer Dude says
Harpoona Frittata says
I’m with Mike: Sunshine is the best disinfectant and making the “wisdom of the ages” available to all is exactly what Elron wanted to accomplish in the first place. If it’s applied philosophy practices of counseling have any practical value at all, folks will find what works and adapt it as they see fit.
Once it’s secularized and evaluated relative to the efficacy of other counseling models (and `the hourly rates for its fee-for-service begin to reflect that value) we’ll see what the techniques and practices are actually worth, when the lies, space opera idiocy and hyperbolic claims for non-existent super powers are put aside.
Personally, I think that in the final analysis, $cn’s lasting utility will be to countries like N.Korea, in which mind control and authoritarian leader deification is highly valued, and in black ops national security units around the world where folks are looking for coercion and interrogation techniques that don’t fall under the strict historical definition of torture, but work in almost the exact same ways.
$cn as it’s currently practiced by cherch under lil davey, the sadistic and authoritarian supreme rullah, is systematic soul rape that requires your initial free choice (unless you’re born into the cult or brought to it as a child sacrifice by your idiot family), but with very little tweaking it could be adapted as the primary mind control system of any authoritarian regime.
How? Simple, just imagine Ethics as a state’s secret police structure and an e-meter with the capacity to turn up the voltage…gives the phrase, “please pick up the cans” a whole new meaning doesn’t it?
Oh NO! Not the CANS!! NOT THE CANS!!!
Harpoona Frittata says
Yes Roger, it’s time for you to pick up the cans and tell us all about the thought crimes that you’ve been committing inside your own personal head!
Total Freedom demands total control, and that means that any negative thoughts that you may have had are exactly equivalent, in terms of their severity as a crime, to actual acts of crime themselves.
And remember, the only reason that folks are reluctant to undergo metered sec checking is that they know they have crimes and want to avoid incriminating themselves.
Eeeesh, sounds a lot like 1984. Had Orwell lived to see Scientology come into its own as a bustling cult, I’m sure he’d have had a few choice observations for Hubbard’s ways……. as much as he seemed to admire authoritarian assholes and all.
Being a never-in, I think my own personal Room 101 would contain the Objectives.
Old Surfer Dude says
And, by God, you better come clean, Roger! Your eternity is at stake!
My eternity is at stake if I don’t come clean and tell my thought crimes? How ’bout if I just tell my personally awkward moments and settle for a million good years?
Old Surfer Dude says
Ummmmmmmm…..Ok. You got the million…
That’s why DM hasn’t gotten auditing in 20+ years. When, or if, he holds the cans, the auditor will find out that DM is a homo-in-denial. DM might find it out as well……….
I don’t think the demise of the church will occur in one dramatic moment, but a series of pivotal events; each exposing more and more lies. Eventually (possibly), in order to survive, Scn may morph into a fairly ineffective, hopefully harmless, alternative religious group. I don’t see the “advanced” management structure surviving…good riddance.
There will be individual practitioners who are utterly convinced of the miracle of Scn. They will practice their trade, not in any great numbers. Then maybe in a couple of generations, someone will pickup the baton and try and make Scn work, or analyse it, with the hopes of fixing it. By then it may unrecognizable.
As long as they don’t hurt anyone, I could care less.
Harpoona Frittata says
Think Christian Science there…and hey, wouldn’t all those super spiffy empty Ideal orgs make the perfect spots for more reading rooms!?
They’re dying at an even faster rate. Why? It doesn’t work. The end. Scientology doesn’t work. THAT will be its end, too.
I see it as a nastier version of CS at the end too…DM will not be gone for decades unless the IRS or FBI get interested, and they won’t. He’ll live on the COS’s vast reserves as the numbers dwindle. There will always be enough mind wiped SeaOrg zombies left to serve him Scotch and keep a few storefronts manned. He’ll gradually sell off the properties as they lose even the basic staff number to keep them open, but will continue to milk the whales and scam enough newcomers to keep a few orgs running. He’ll die in his 80’s as a burned out recluse. His last remaining slaves will stumble out into the light, confused and helpless, the lucky into the care of their families, the rest into homeless shelters and mental institutions.
I really hope the younger members get out soon, but I don’t see the long-term zombies going anywhere until DM’s health and lifestyle cleanse the earth of his presence.
I think the Remini Offensive will help reduce the number of new victims and hopefully help convince those whose families are still willing to help them to get out.
I think the demise of the church as I first knew it has already happened. It was in the early 1980s when the “mission massacre” happened. That was when nearly everyone I knew left. Now its a matter of unmocking the existing scene of the CoS which is a travesty.
Liz Breckow says
I think you’re right although IMO the path for Scientology will be heavily influenced by both the viability of lawsuits against them and whether their tax exemption status is revoked.
Lawsuits will always be an influencing factor, this is Scn after all. What hasn’t happened on the legal front is a landmark court case which makes it open-season on Scn. When that happens we can expect a healthy supply of lawsuits aimed at helping them spend their $3B reserves. Once those floodgates open, you’ll see a rapid decline, as more and more of their energy go towards defense. Scn will, once again, be fighting for its life.
I just can’t help but make the comparison- Scientology and ENRON Hubbard were and are both built on a house of cards. Neither have any substance of value to save.
Very good question, thank you. The Scientology group, sort of speaking, is so broken that I doubt any amnesty will recover the 1,000s that have left.
That it is a philosophy, as originally written, is true. And a philosophy is to be read, studied and used as any one sees fit.
The enforced rules to do this or do that, do not apply if someone really means to spread some ideas and allow, above all, the individual to chose his or her pat; that will be a good intentional approach. Obsessive control has nothing to do with others choosing how they wish to live their lives.
To rebuild orgs, groups, missions, even if another sociopath intends to follow DM’s selfish route, it is not going to work. Once the sociopath, cruel leader leaves there will be such a relief from the ones that still remain inside and many more may quit, whereas some others will try to re-built Scientology.
The staff and Executives will have a tantamount task in trying to align all orgs around the world and may try to re-establish a higher Management structure. But no matter how much they work, people from outside won’t join plus the control factor instilled by LRH will lead again to a total failure. All in addition to the need to overcome Scientology’s reputation in the eyes of the ‘wogs’ which, as we all know now, it has an extremely low rating.
The best way to go about it is allow individuals to choose how they want for their lives; if they read something from LRH and find it useful, good for them. What they don’t want, they will discard and is OK too.
The moment a philosophy is enforced it ceases to be one.
Ms. B. Haven says
End Games are interesting and wide open for arm chair quarterbacking amongst the unwashed masses of SPs, exes, fence sitters, etc. I’m sure todays comments will run the gamut.
I would like to refer everyone to John P’s excellent but now (unfortunately) idle blog from 2013 where he was asking commenters to make predictions for 2014. It’s fun to look back on and see who got things right and who got things wrong.
I have copied and pasted my fantasy prediction here just to keep things on the lighter side lest the comments get all KSW (hi Theo) and out of control…
My Fantasy Prediction for 2014.
It will be revealed that Shelly Miscavaige has been busy all of these years living in an undisclosed location overseeing the upbringing of a VERY precocious redheaded youngster who has a penchant for rodeo, writing, and rolling his own fags. When presented to the public, Lil’ Ron (dressed on one of those Cracker Jack sailor suits) will announce he is taking over and releasing the results of his ‘missing years’ research. DM will be showered with honors for being such an outstanding SO member, promoted to Loyal Officer (finally) and disappear forever from public view. Lil’ Ron (with Shelly at his side) will be left to his own devices to carry on the world’s greatest con and try to replenish the now empty accounts that DM has ‘retired’ with. There will be a record 2 hour standing ovation with many a hip-hip-horray. Kool-aid and cookies will be served to all those hanging around for their next “reg cycle”. Bunkerettes and Bunkeroos, will dine on the finest ceak while celebrating the end of the biggest scam in the history of the world.
John P. Capitalist says
Thanks for reminding me of that blog post. I put a lot of work into it, and was grateful to see that many other people put a great deal of thought into their comments as well.
Yes, many things didn’t come to pass in the time frame I had predicted, though a lot of them remain directionally correct. For example, the Ideal Org program didn’t grind to a complete halt as I predicted, but the pace of openings did slow dramatically, and we are now aware of significant amounts of financing coming from HQ and not from the local public, who are all tapped out.
I particularly liked your prediction that Elron will return in the guise of the sailor boy from the Cracker Jack box.
John, I think that you were right that the Ideal Org program as it was, locally financed, ground to a halt about then. Many of the buildings originally purchased by locals up to a decade ago such as in Chicago and Montreal, remain unrenovated and decaying, and what we’re seeing now is Ideal Org program 2.0 where funds coming from central coffers (as admitted in at least one case) or from fundraising in other areas (as documented in promotional pieces) are being used to complete fundraising for new buildings in the locations most important to international management.
My prediction has been that Miscavige will continue to open ideal orgs, because it is such a flagship program, and to stop would be to admit personal and organizational failure (as it would be to not keep the Freewinds, or a Freewinds 2.0, afloat). Scientology also has to spend significant amounts of money every year to justify keeping huge reserves or else risk losing their non-profit status, and could even be at a point where that calculus on top of declining income from services, means that they are starting to have to look for justifiable vehicles like usable (if mostly empty) real estate to put money into.
I have also long thought that there is reason to suspect that Scientology has more in International Reserves than is generally known, which if true would in turn mean that they could have a higher minimum amount of money they need to spend annually*. That leads me to think that they could end up like the Getty (Museum), with so much in investments and annual income from them that the organization takes on a life and power of its own, and can keep the doors open without even charging anything. And perhaps something like that has actually been the aim of efforts that have otherwise seemed not to make much sense.
* charities are supposed to spend 3% to 5% of their endowment annually, rather than just allowing it to accumulate, though it is not clear just how that would apply to a complex organization like Scientology. My guess is that they have been doing something like taking operating funds out of reserve income to meet formal requirements, but then putting money raised by the IAS into reserves as a sort of unstated capital campaign that continues to increase the reserves. We only know of the reporting of reserves of some of the Scientology entities that has been picked up on the Scientology Money Project website, and that data is only through 2012 so we do not know what current trends are.
John P. Capitalist says
Thanks for a thoughtful comment.
I don’t think that reserves are likely to be significantly in excess of the $1.0 to $1.5 billion number that I have estimated previously. I am fairly confident in my approximation of cult revenues and operating surplus (“profits” if they were a commercial enterprise) over the last 10 years. The upper bound on reserves is the sum of profits over the operating history of the business. The actual number will be the upper bound less what they’ve spent.
I suspect that a significant portion of the accumulated profits before 1980 was squirreled away offshore by Hubbard and the ability to access a good chunk of that money died with him. In particular, I don’t think estimates of $6 billion that some people have reported without any documentation of their methods for arriving at that number are at all credible.
I don’t think that Miscavige is actually operating on the 3% principle. I think he feels that he can operate with sufficient impunity re IRS at this point that he’s doing whatever the hell he feels like. The Getty, by comparison, is highly visible and its financials are heavily scrutinized by its rivals in the art world and by the IRS as an easy target, so I am sure that it operates scrupulously within the boundaries of the law.
Also, I believe that with the majority of the cult’s assets offshore in highly liquid bank accounts, they are not likely to be investing it and are not likely to be making much more than T-bill interest rates (0.5% at this point) before management fees, and likely much closer to making zero after management fees. While 0.5% of $1 billion is $20 million a year, a sizable contribution to revenue I currently estimate at around $150 million or so from all sources, I don’t think they’re actually plowing interest income back into operations… once money is offshore, it’s likely never to be seen again unless cash is pulled out for a specific project like the NZ Ideal Org.
Doug Owen says
A cult leader named William Miller once predicted the end of the world in 1843. Guess again if you think the failure of that prediction ended the cult. It became the Seventh Day Adventists, still flourishing today. Likewise, I suspect some group will persist from Scientology, after throwing out KSW and whatever other baggage is no longer viable.
I Yawnalot says
Wow, that’s taking the bull by the horns with this scenario Terra. My take on it is, the Scientology organisation HAS GOT TO GO! It’s unrecoverable. Too much external influence exists with lawyers and the control of the money and the vast real estate holdings. It would always be a fight to the legal death to disband the power behind it and/or align it for “good” and make it all magically work. No one has ever applied KSW1, (effectively anyway) from the day it was written, why should that change just because Miscavige gets thrown out?
Technically it’s a smorgasbord of varying opinions by those who should know and have been studying Scientology for decades. Even going back to the day Hubbard didn’t mind field auditors and such, policy grew and grew that opposed them ever gaining independence away from the “mother church.” To spite his own textbook written and spoken intentions Hubbard sure introduced some whacko policy that laid waste to the best intentions and dedication of anyone trying to carve out & master a career out of or within Scientology. The formation of the SO put a chain of command ahead of intelligence and application. What a stupid thing to do!
This is purely my opinion but I do see some good in some of it’s auditing (it saved my introverted butt) but nothing by or after the introduction of OT3 & NOTs as Bridge levels. As a side adjunct maybe, completely labeled as a personal case discovery of Hubbard. Geezers, it’s just an engram at best for Pete’s sake, not an ability producing miracle. It turned out to be the biggest evaluation of the PC/preOT in the history of auditing. To be able to make a decision whether something works for you must be installed in the system and with no punishment if you disagree. Code of Honor fully applied and respected. Also, this bullshit about TRs – there’s no EP to it as stated. It’s just a tool to be kept practiced when needed, like an athlete needs to keep up their training, but it sure gave lots of people loses being expected to handle all comm calmly and “forever” after early training in Scientology. What a load of technical suppressive crap used by executives to introvert those plying the tech and hence control them by pointing out their inadequacies when things don’t go right. Metering? geezers… don’t get me started on that bs – it’s just a tool among others – not a God!
I feel what was in place prior to OT 3 has some merit but it takes dedication and perseverance to understand and apply it, but it’s not for everyone. This “standard” morphed into a ‘one shot does all approach’ which look at the evidence of how that worked out. Hubbard saw that not many could master it, and those that did became just a little too independent to control and hence a threat so he introduced secrets only he could comprehend, put a military style police mentality to run it and so created a dictatorial bubble. He then proceeded to water down the tech until even Aunt Martha could be convinced she could just hold the cans and go Clear in no time, (marketing ie $ strategy took precedence). OT then beckoned with intensive marketing and training got the same water down treatment and produced Solo auditors who couldn’t audit and were forced to lie to themselves and the CS (Cof$ fog masters) if they wanted to remain on lines. Also, the definition of Clear was bounced around more than a tennis ball and the whole line up of the Bridge ended up like a gold mine that got played out. It went nowhere except the never ending circuit of round and around to the reg and back. Always something new to do or redo and a major breakthrough or piece of lost tech introduced every other week to dangle that carrot. The only thing that happened in the Scientology organisation was that people either left it, got thrown out or handed over vast quantities of money or their life. It made good people do bad & silly things.
I’m with Mike on this one, remove the secrecy and throw it all out there. Lead it by a result based intention and maybe, just maybe auditing tech might find a place in the general course of human options, but without the lies.
Maybe Mike Wynski is right – it’s all crap anyway. But freedom of choice is a good thing and I like my crap served with a side of fries.
mimsey borogrove says
I think a smart marketer could rise to the top, and despite the negative pr built up, by having many outlets of free tech, throwing Miscavage and his changes under the bus, and offering professional auditing at a lower rate, and going for volume sales, and follow the example of the old successful missions, Scientology V.3 could expand and grow. In other words develop a new client base rather than try to salvage the old. What do I predicate that on?
Every crowd has a silver lining.
There’s a sucker born every minute.
Ummm Even PT Barnum is out of business now.
Old Surfer Dude says
But his legacy lives on…
Kay M Rowe says
To the Editor: Hello Mike, What you said is absolutely brilliant. Amazing the timing on this article. I was pondering the subject just last night as I am getting closer to completing the 1st draft of my book “Battlefield Scientology- A Unique perspective from a Scientology fundraiser of 20 years”. if you don’t mind I’d like to include it as part of my epilogue.
Harpoona Frittata says
Not to jump down your throat in some sort of judgemental fashion, but I sincerely hope that after 20 years of defrauding folks so that lil davey can have plenty to spend on PI’s, lawyers and black ops projects, that every single dollar in profit that you earn from your book will go toward making amends for the damage that you’ve done and the lives that you have harmed, albeit unintentionally.
Hi Harpoona, I’m fairly certain Kay has held her own council and is doing what she needs to in regards her activities. A book is healing for the writer and it’s readers. I think amends is something that comes automatically to most of us leaving. Remember we joined to help. I’m also pretty sure she doesn’t need an MAA giving her instructions ever again 🙂 But I can totally see why you would say that.
Kay good news you’ve come so far with your book! Are you sending it to me for a spell check LOL 🙂
Kay M Rowe says
Hello Cece, Thanks for stepping in their with your reply to Harpoona. I do have an Editor already so don’t need you to spell check. However, would be more than happy to send you a copy of my book. Do you still have the same email address? Best, Kay
Xenus Brother In Law says
I’m an ex. Was in it for 4 1/2 years. I’d love a copy of your book, AND I’d be more than happy to pay for it plus p&p……
I’ve got just about all the books written by exes. Think I’m establishing an ex members library……..
Take care and I’m glad you’re out.
Kay M Rowe says
Hello and thanks for your posting. My plan to self-publish and not print at all. Once I complete the last few Chapters and my Editor completes his work, I’ll be sure to get you a copy by email if that’s ok.
Xenus Brother In Law says
That sounds great. Thanks. Won’t you need my email address, or can you access it through Mike’s blog?
Harpoona Frittata says
I’m not here to stand in judgement on folks that have spent decades furthering cult activities and I have no personal knowledge concerning the particulars of Ms. Rowe’s unique circumstance. Perhaps she’s fully intending to engage in real life activities to set things right, so my remarks stand as a more general comment on exes who are now out of the cult, but spent many years aiding and abetting the cherch’s crimes and human rights abuses.
But I do believe that folks who’ve unintentionally furthered the cult’s ability to engage in evil need to make amends for their actions because the effects are what they are and no one should be given a pass on it, merely because they were just being Good Scientologists. Without a small army of vulture reges, doing their best to squeeze every last dollar out of their prey, $cn wouldn’t be anywhere near as flush now as they are.
We’ve focused our fire on the cult’s tiny tyrant, lil davey, but without a bunch of cowed and craven minions doing his bidding, there would be no huge $cn slush fund or ability to sidestep justice in the courts. These folks need to answer for their behavior and, if they’re truly sorry for what they’ve done that’s harmed others, they need to make some tangible effort to set things right in addition to just saying “sorry”.
I’d sincerely like to see folks like her dedicate the profits from such endeavors to those that they’ve harmed. To make money off of such behavior, now that you know what you did was wrong, seems unconscionable to me.
I yes, I understand what you are saying. I agree but what I’m saying to you in clearer terms is you and I don’t have to mind anyone else’s road out. They will travel it the best they can with the wisdom they have gained thus far. It doesn’t work to tell anyone how. LRH used to call it ‘Cleaning a Clean’. I know what I have to do for the harm I have done/caused and I do it instinctively. You too likely. It’s the happier and healthier way to live life.
On the book profits, I just ordered J. Hawkins Kindle books today and was sending him an e-mail requesting his #books sold stats out of curiosity. I remember Marc Headley once stating he got a lot more orders when $ ended up big in the press. I don’t believe they make much money off these books especially since Kay is sending them out free 🙂
But it would sure be interesting to see the numbers.
Kay M Rowe says
Hello Harpoona- I think I can safely assume that you don’t me, otherwise your comment would have been worded a lot differently. Please see Cece’s reply to yours. I’m not going to play the game of defending myself. I did that in the Church for 37 years and those days are over for me. But tell you what, I will send you a free copy of my book.
Harpoona Frittata says
There really is no defense for fronting for the cult, is there? of course we were all unwittingly culpable in aiding and abetting the cherch’s systematic criminal behavior and human/civil rights abuses, but regardless of whatever duped mental state we might have been in at the time, the consequences of our actions were still the same. I’m merely suggesting that folks who now know better and are sincerely sorry for what they’ve done do something to make things right in a real and tangible way. A personal apology is a good start, but tangible harm requires tangible amends be made in my world, otherwise “sorry” is just a nice word.
One way to do that would be to refuse to profit from your own story of your life within the cult, but instead, to do something tangible for all those that you’ve indirectly harmed by making sure that the cult had the financial wherewithal to persecute its perceived enemies and use the legal system to avoid being held to account by those that it has victimized.
I appreciate the kind offer of a free book, but I’d prefer to see you donate the profits from its sale to do something tangible to make things right with those that you’ve done so wrong.
Clearly Not Clear says
Harpoona, I gotta say ragging on Ms. Rowe because she is writing a book and might make a few bucks off of it seems off the point to me. She escaped after years of believing she was saving the planet. She didn’t get a career and network of friends and professionals for years to be able to just jump into easily supporting herself after 37 odd years of living in the bubble.
The fact that
A) She got out is a win
B) She has figured out a way to support herself with probably little support network is a win.
C) That she’s reflecting on the mind fuck that is the cherch of Slimatology and revealing her history as an IAS reg is something that I’d like to read. We don’t have a book like that. I hope that her story could possibly be told in the second season (I pray) of Leah and Mike’s awesome show. That she’s carving out time to reflect and write about this is a win.
The fact that she’s getting some shit from you about her book is kind of petty to me. No offence to her but she may have to self publish because she isn’t a celebrity and there are many books about the cherch out there. She may not make much money on her book. I know authors who write multiple books and they are more a labor of love than a money making career.
So let’s welcome her out of the cult. Let’s validate her for figuring out how to make a living, open a bank account, file taxes, get a drivers liscense, find her place in the world and a place in her heart for love and compassion.
I suggest we support her dive back into the memories of that insanity to write her book and let her deal with what she was posted to do to “save the planet.”
Hindsight is 20/20 and road to hell is paved with good intentions. But I’m not going to tell her how to deal with her past. Ethics is an individual’s choice. Justice is the group. And as I’m part of the group I say give the girl a break.
Kay M Rowe says
Hello Harpoona, I appreciate you bringing this up and understand how you feel. Just to clarify, the reason I made the point that you don’t know me and said that I would send you a copy of my book is to fill a void for you. If you really knew me you would know that I’m not that kind of person and I have people’s best interests at heart and I could frankly give a hoot about making a bunch of money. All I ask is that you not assume that I haven’t already been making amends and that I have no plans of continuing to do so. Also, don’t assume that I’m planning to keep any and all profits I may make from the book. For the record I’ve already done a lot of things to make amends that go well beyond simply saying “I’m sorry” and I’m not stopping there. I have a plan and its best not broadcast it at this stage. You will find out what I’m going to be doing soon enough. Meanwhile if anyone wants me to make amends to them personally, I am wide open to receiving their communication and helping them in any way that I possibly can. I hope that the above helps bring clarity. Best, Kay
Or you could say, in the words of the inestimable Mary Poppins, “I don’t give excuses or explanations!”
Harpoona, I might agree with you if there were large profits on such a book, and would even join you in a call to ask Kay to consider donating any excess profits. But I think it unlikely that something along the lines of a memoir about a typical member’s time in Scientology would sell enough to be that profitable, so it’s probably a moot point.
It seems fair to me that Kay get some compensation for her work, which must have taken time away from other things, and which puts her at risk of harassment and even legal expenses. Otherwise authors like her would be less motivated to get their stories out, and we would all be the poorer for it.
And I think that writing an honest and presumably revealing book, is itself a “tangible amend” – similar to our host’s work on this website where we are having this discussion.
I have never been a scientologist so my perspective is limited, however it would appear to me that this may be exactly the point. Those who are still deeply in the organization are unwilling and unable to see clearly while those who have escaped (and that is a strong word that truly describes the seriousness and danger involved) are not only still operating from an ingrained scientologist programming but also reeling from so many emotions and deficits that perhaps clear thinking might be difficult. Growing up in a cult like Scientology restricts a person’s emotional, spiritual and societal growth. You are taught never to question. You are taught that YOU are the root of the problem when such arises. You are guided and controlled by guilt and manipulation and a toxic reward system. You are kept from healthy relationships that could strengthen and sustain you. You are threatened both overtly and subtly. The organization is end all and be all. The inner conflict and sometimes outer pressure applied to stop one from blowing (forget about even just thinking for yourself!) is enormous. How could anyone coming from such a place be able to bypass the conditioning and inner development of a lifetime and come up with viable, workable solutions? Scientology does not simply disappear because you escape.
‘Throw out the things that ‘don’t work?'”
None of it works. Period. There is no technology for the growth and development of a person. Emotions cannot be pigeonholed onto a Tone scale and then dismissed. We are humans not Vulcans. Death is the reality of life. Period. You will never achieve a place in your life where you will be able to cure cancer with your minds or hold power over death and choose to “shed your current body”. Sorry, but that is complete and utter bullshit. It is also completely unattainable. Scientology is an organization of unattainable, unreasonable goals. The only way to “fix” that is to stop it. “Clearing the planet”. What does that even MEAN?! The planet is comprised of people. Flawed human beings from every race, culture, belief, education. Diverse and different as snowflakes. Scientology seeks to undermine everything that IS humanity. Starting with the individual. All that matters is Scientology. Yet what would the organization be without the people? Conundrum. Impossible. Why not decide that you must grow taller or stop breathing oxygen and breathe water, instead?
LRH is NOT floating around in the ether waiting to return to some underground bunker in Arrowhead Lake so he can resume control of Scientology. All of the technology, the ORGs, the secret handshakes and hidden bases will not bring him back. He is dead. Every second of every day that is spent by Scientology working towards that event is empty. The fix for that is to stop it.
The fact is, sadly, tragically for all those still there; the only fix for this cult is to stop it. Stop the abuse, stop the manipulations, stop the brainwashing and control and financial ruin of it’s members. Stop thinking that there is some way of revamping this….thing. Scientology is not a viable organization. It cannot and should not be saved. It’s people, however, should. That is the real question that needs to be addressed. There are thousands of people who have been victimized their whole lives that need to be de-programmed, educated, given mental health care and assisted back into reality, let alone society. That is the huge task that should be addressed. Not how to save Scientology. In this case I just do not think there can be both.
This, of course, is my opinion. An outsider’s opinion, for whatever it’s worth.
Bruce Ploetz says
Pretty good points, Azhlynne. I suppose when the whole thing collapses there will need to be a trust fund set up to provide re-entry services for the folks who know nothing about the outside world.
Some of the homeless shelters near where I live have pretty good programs that help someone get ready to re-enter the work force and so on. Not just three hots and a cot, counseling too. If I ever win the lottery (not likely because I don’t play) I would love to contribute enough to set up services for my former co-workers. Or maybe it could be set up out of the billions that are in the Scientology war chest now.
It could also be a great way to use the buildings at the Int Base. The North side with the L Ron Hubbard Home and the super fancy buildings etc. could be a tourist attraction, and the south side with the staff apartments and kitchen could be the Rehabilitation Center. When we run out of Sea Org members we could also use the facilities to help former FLDS, victims of human trafficking and the sex trade, all kinds of folks who need a hand getting back into the real world. Here is a drone flyover of the Int Base http://tonyortega.org/2016/09/07/scientologys-secret-sites-the-bunker-premieres-drone-footage-never-before-seen-of-int-base/
Now THAT would be a wonderful, positive way to heal and help people! I love the idea of using all the hoarded monies to help those who were ruined contributing. I also love the idea of using the much touted real estate to actually help both those who were in Scientology as well as other needy people. That would really be helping the planet!
Bruce, I suspect that after battles yet to come, and between settlements with the government and the settlement of class action suits, CoS’ billions will end up going towards things like what you envision including what we might call “reparations for slave labor,” though most likely in a more piecemeal fashion than your vision of an ideal situation. And in a bit of bitchin’ karma, a lot of money will probably go to a lot of lawyers.
I think that a significant amount of money that was in Hubbard’s estate is likely to survive legal challenges to Scientology’s corporate entities and remain in trusts as originally intended to support his legacy. But trustees often over time often change the direction of such trusts, and they could actually be used to support the sort of purposes that you envision. It is possible though maybe not likely that the estate itself could be challenged, but even the threat of a challenge might cause the trustees to agree to direct money towards more truly beneficent causes.
It occurs to met that perhaps one significant way that former (and current) Scientologists can make the best out of what they put into Scientology, is to support eventual efforts to see that CoS’ corporate assets – which they contributed to – be used for refunds and restitution, and maybe even some genuine charitable causes.
Peacemaker, you’re right, I forgot about the Church of Spiritual Technology trusts. They are probably isolated from the International Association of Scientologists funds. Possibly they won’t be touchable even after the official Scientology organization goes down. The corporate structure of Scientology is tangled up with corporate firewalls in all directions.
But there are $biilions in the IAS funds, so the worst case scenario would be that the IAS would be liquidated and the funds distributed in a class action payout, but the CST funds would remain. According to the corporate charters the CST funds are only supposed to support the vaults and so on. So we would still have the vaults full of titanium sheets with the Hubbard legacy, just waiting for a nuclear exchange or a climate catastrophe.
How anybody centuries from now who doesn’t speak English would make any sense out of the words of Hubbard with their Viet Nam war references and odd jokes about the Soviet Union is beyond me. But oh well, as long as the beast goes down it doesn’t matter much which way it twists as it falls.
Anyway, there is room for a new trust. I propose we call it the Peace, Reconciliation and Recovery Trust.
L Yash says
I would suspect multi millions or billions in “off shore accounts” under several different names. They’ve got to be hiding mega $$$$ and it is more than likely put it down as “church expenses”……
Good idea to turn some of the buildings into shelters for those in need who have nowhere else to go once the ” church” is gone, also have some Education for GED or Job Training sites.
What will happen to all those Buildings in Clearwater they own and run…and what about the “Hemet Compound”……that real estate in California would be worth Millions to a Developer for high scale condo units or homes, and all that money could go into a FUND to help the victims of the “Church”…..
Mike Rinder says
You don’t need to hide anything when you are exempt. It’s not necessary as the IRS has no way of looking into your accounts.
L Yash says
Yes, I understand that since it’s a “church exempt status”…however that maybe….I can’t help but wonder if some of the $$$ “slipped through the cracks” and found it’s way into a private off shore account for when the “stuff” hits the fan & “someone” must leave/exit the USA “suddenly”..
After all when the bubble burst and the walls of Jericho (the razor wire fence begins to collapse with wire cutters) and the legal authorities march in, a certain person has to be able to continue to have access to a lot of $$$$$ for the lifestyle he’s accustomed to.
Mike Rinder says
Doubt it. The mindset is different. He can walk into ANY scientology org, from Capetown to Moscow, Perth to Tokyo or even a Narconon and everything they have in the bank and all the staff are at his command. You don’t need the liability of siphoned off funds. Every org has it’s own bank accounts even outside the international reserves.
L Yash, this is a question that often comes up and that I’ve been intending to respond to, so here is as good a place as any. Scientology’s corporate structure is complex, and I’m not an expert on it, but I know that at least one of the entities is actually for profit, Author Services (ASI), which can pay people pretty much any amount without even breaking any laws. Miscavige was CEO of ASI at one point, and could have socked away money paid to him, plus still would have effective control if not an actual corporate role that would allow him or others to be paid out whatever was wanted. There could be other mechanisms as well, for having stashed or being able to tap money in ways that were legal.
Mike, from what I understand the “orgs” are constantly pressed to send as much money as possible “uplines” to Scientology’s higher echelons, and consequently even often have trouble paying their basic bills (much less the staff). Would there really be much money to be found in an org’s bank accounts?
Also, Miscavige goes back to the days when he and others moved large amounts of money around in suitcases, for Scientology and for Hubbard. That was the sort of thing that originally lost CoS its tax exemption, and which was a point of contention up until the 1993 IRS settlement. My guess is that there is cash or negotiable securities that have been kept stashed since that era in both the US and abroad for emergencies (like someone needing to disappear or flee), and that the passage of time has effectively laundered it and so it would be free of liability.
Bruce, I can’t claim to have studied the financial structures very thoroughly, and even then, as Denise (Larry) Brennan said, they are intended to hide what is actually going on. But in general, I think it’s safe to assume that the significant assets from Hubbard’s estate (reportedly as much as half a billion dollars at the time of his death, and quite likely several times that now) probably remain separate from Scientology’s general assets, though even then they might be subject to challenge.
Foundations and trusts often have their missions redirected by new trustees, and the courts can be sympathetic to efforts to remove or change outdated and onerous restrictions. Organizations also are required to demonstrate charitable aims, or risk losing their tax exemption. I think that if challenged, the CST would be hard pressed to justify maintaining more than one vault, and would have to direct any remaining income from assets towards other efforts – possibly to include maintaining free access to the material.
Also, while doing a quick check on this I noticed that CST was the principal beneficiary of Hubbard’s estate, contingent on their receiving tax exemption, which they did – at the same time that the CoS received overall tax exemption. If the tax exemption were revoked, that might actually cause other things like this to unravel, with unknown consequences. On a similar note, I have also wondered if some sort of challenge might invalidate all the changes of trustees and directors apparently accomplished through the use of undated letters of resignation (which may be ruled unenforceable), again causing some sort of roll-back.
Such notions of triggering an unraveling of Scientology’s corporate structure might be a wild goose chase as Denise (Larry) put it, but regardless, Scientology’s assets almost certainly could be vulnerable to determined efforts to seek restitution for fraud and abuse, and it would be important to pursue such while individuals originally involved could still testify or have some role. Scientology would be an exceptional case, and courts sometimes impose exceptional remedies. Additionally, the passage of laws requiring religions and/or non-profits to have more transparent and accountable corporate structures, would also be a game-changer. There would be plenty to fight for, for ex-members willing to do something.
Mike Rinder says
The assets from Hubbard’s estate were transferred to CST for the “preservation of the tech” as soon as CST was granted exempt status.
L Yash says
Extremely interesting responses to my statement…..as a “never in” there’s always been suspicions about the amount of money going here and there since they TAKE everyone’s assets/finances and pay them little to nothing for the “work” they are doing.
I HOPE that the former members stick together and pursue everything that was presented during Leah and Mike’s documentary. ALL of you deserve to receive some financial compensation for what you’ve been through.
I recall reading the article in the Washington Post about the CO$ having to “cough up” a good deal of money around the time the receive their Tax Exempt status……..
You “guys”(and gals) CAN and WILL move mountains! Keep up the good work and keep the show on the air for Season #2…..I am talking to as many people as I can and encouraging phone calls, letters etc be written to the powers that be…..Hang Tough!
PS: THANK YOU all again for being so lovely & Kind to use “never ins” who have known something was up with CO$ but couldn’t really find out exactly what…….All those now happy smiling faces on the children & young adults OUT of CO$ is a true heart warmer…..
Harpoona Frittata says
Very well said! I agree with much of what you’ve written, but with one fundamental difference: Folks who HAVE been involved with $cn should be absolutely free to decide for themselves whether their experiences within it have been of value to them.
You are a never-in, but state that, “‘Throw out the things that ‘don’t work?’”
None of it works. Period. There is no technology for the growth and development of a person.”
Since spiritual growth and the resolution of traumatic experience are completely subjective and can only be judged and evaluated from that perspective, to say that others’ experiences are invalid, but without ever having experienced what they have for yourself is a judgement that you’re entitled to make as it relates to you, but not to anyone else.
I’m hardly a pro-$cn individual, but there are aspects of the techniques of Dianetics and Scientology that have been misappropriated from other counseling models, such as Roger’s person-centered counseling model, which DO work and form the basis of some of the lower bridge auditing that folks who have been in $cn have benefited from. Elron stole from many and gave credit to none; and what has been labelled as being unique to Dn and $cn is, in many instances, derived from other sources, with the labels changed to protect the guilty.
Indeed, one of the primary reasons that the long con of $cn has been so successful in the past is that some parts of the lower bridge auditing ARE effective for some people, which creates a positive anticipation of even better things to come. And that is exactly where the bait and switch occurs and marks get sucked deeper into the con. Without some early positive gains, almost no one would ever continue on up the bridge, as prices go up and behavioral conformity becomes more and more enforced.
Let folks decide for themselves once all of the $cn is available to be studied and there’s is no longer a sub-culture milieu of fear, dread, threat and controlling bodies associated with it!
I am not saying that others experiences are invalid. Rather I am proffering that the ends do not justify the means. There are healthy and productive ways of personal discovery and growth. Ways that do not include a baited hook. Building a person up in order to control them is not a success. Instead it only, in the end, adds fuel to the fire. In her book Leah mentions how she felt like she was making progress, like she felt positive while in the moment. But after she returned to her home the frustration and other feelings would return. It appears to me that any perceived success is only really in relation to the scientologist parameters. Auditing, in whatever the form, is not done by educated, experienced professionals who are trained in the complexities and intricacies of the human condition. Scientologist who sit and listen to someone talk about their flaws (flaws that can reappear later and be used against the person, if I understand it correctly) are not therapists who can truly help. No more than the way Scientology thinks it can “help” someone with mental illness with vitamins and isolation. These auditing sessions do not seem to be about the person struggling to overcome but rather about leading the person along the path to dependence upon Scientology.
In her book Leah says; “The process could produce a great sense of cathartic relief. Here was a problem I wasn’t even aware of, that I may have created for myself, and after much back-and-forth, I was able to overcome that problem. So while in session I would feel the euphoria of self-discovery and growth, back in the real world I was still angry, depressed, and judgmental. Looking at my diaries from that period (journaling was frowned upon by the church, but I did it anyway), I would note that I still wanted more for my life and my family’s life. My Scientology realizations were great in the church building, but I would start cursing when I couldn’t find my car in a parking lot or when I had no money left in my bank account. It just wasn’t there for me in real-life situations, this sense of accomplishment of having solved problems. It really existed only when I was in the presence of other Scientologists, who completely bought into it.”
That in a nutshell is the difference between personal healing and growth and manipulating a person through their weaknesses into dependence. Therapy attempts to help the person succeed and thrive in life. Scientology attempts to promote dependence and self doubt and it surely does not want anyone to succeed in the real world independant of the organization. So I stand by my opinion that Scientology does not work because it is not designed toward the individual but rather toward the organization. Perhaps making the works public and free would be good. The transparency could be a springboard for healthy discussion. In it’s current, insular form however, all it does is add to the idea that the person is privy to something mysterious and special. Something that “the rest” don’t have. A treatment that will fix everything that is wrong and make the person so much better when in reality the person seeking betterment is actually being groomed, manipulated and controlled.
I want to be an excellent person, I want to better myself and help this planet! Here are the tools to do exactly that!
But Scientology is not helping the planet. They aren’t doing good for anyone but the organization. So what positive results are truly being attained and for what reason? Growth is not inert. One cannot say they bettered themselves or overcame their flaws without anything to truly measure the advancement against.
Harpoona Frittata says
“I am not saying that others experiences are invalid. Rather I am proffering that the ends do not justify the means. ”
I agree, they don’t. But your absolutist generality about none of $cn being worthwhile or leading to personal growth IS an indirect invalidation of others personal and subjective experiences.
It’s very easy for never-in folks to fail to grasp the subtlety and sophistication of the long con that is $cn. If it was all bad and without worth to the individual, no one would get very far into the cult mindset to begin with. At least back in the day, before lil davey seized power and before the Mission system was destroyed in the early 80’s, a substantial number of folks who got into $cn DID find it to be of benefit to them and then just assumed (incorrectly) that if “some was good, more would be even better.”
Yes I agree Harpoona “that some parts of the lower bridge auditing are effective for some people ,which creates a positive anticipation of even better things to come”.
I myself did the bridge up to OT eligibility on the processing side and Class II on the training side before I left. I did many other courses including Key to Life and Life Orientation.
In retrospect, out of all the auditing and training I did, my biggest successes were from “book one” auditing ( which was reasonably priced at $225 for 121/2 hours) and Grade 0 Communications release. Lower bridge actions.
You are spot-on when you say,”Without some earlier positive gains, almost no one would ever continue on up the bridge, as prices go up and behavior conformity becomes more and more enforced.”
Yes. Put all Scn materials out for the public. Let the public decided if there is some value to it. Get it out of the hands of the church.
Idle Morgue says
Um…all Scientology were out for the public to decide. Library’s were sent the BASIC Books – a shit ton of them. They threw them out. You can’t give the shit away.
The best location for everything L Ron the Con Hubbard and his evil scam of a cult – is THE DUMP!
Old Surfer Dude says
Idle, you’re absolutely right! At my Central Branch Library, Any book that arrives unsolicited, is thrown into the $1 bin. I can report that Scientology books ARE not in style. In fact, most are dumped.
Bruce Ploetz says
Good questions, TC. What is the endgame? Here is one version https://www.amazon.com/Scientology-Reformation-Every-Scientologist-Should-ebook/dp/B009PLZAY6/ref=tmm_kin_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1485009961&sr=8-2 But to go along with that analogy, the “Reformation”, you have to accept that Scientology is a religion. Like the Catholics who are still around, but surrounded by other groups that have slightly different beliefs. Martin Luther originally wanted to reform Catholicism, not replace it, but his followers and other like-minded thinkers created the many moderate schisms of today. No more Crusades and Inquisitions, and no more monolithic Church either.
The flaw in this reasoning is that Scientology is not a religion. It is a high-control group (“cult” except that word has a lot of unnecessary baggage). Lots of religions started as high-control groups, like the LDS Church under Joseph Smith, but went on to “moderate” and become real religions. The moderate version of Scientology would not be the official one, as long as Dave Miscavige and other opportunists are around it cannot moderate. It would then lose its ability to rake in the cash from devoted brainwashed followers. The cash is the point. Not weird beliefs or “saving the world”. As in many other groups the creed is window dressing to fool the rubes. At the upper levels, in Dave’s world, cash is king.
So what would be the best scenario for the collapse of Scientology?
First pull the teeth. Prove they are scammers and fraudsters, use RICO or at least revoke the tax exempt status. Now the cash will not be rolling in and they will have to pay property taxes. This will start to cut down the cash reserves.
Then a nice big class action suit for all those who lost money or have been harmed (advanced payments not returned, money not returned on demand for services that were not as described, fraudulently used straight donations such as extorting money to “buy the cross on the roof of the Superpower Building” and then using it to pay PIs to follow people around, “retirement plans” that turned out to be lies, lost potential income while working as a volunteer, costs for medical issues unnecessarily worsened because of systemic neglect, unnecessary pain and human suffering in general). It won’t result in a lot of cash for every participant but will drain down the coffers.
Then get Adult Protective Service, Child Protective Services, OSHA, the Labor Dept. involved. Without the tax exemption they should not be able to claim the “Religious Workers Exemption”. They should not get it anyway. These are not cloistered monks who take a vow of poverty. They are hotel cleaners, janitors, video editors, cameramen, electricians, carpenters and so on. How is it legal for them to work 100 hour weeks for room and board and $50 a week if you’re lucky??? Without the free labor the business model collapses right away. There is just no way to bring in enough income to even pay minimum wage. The workers will have to be let go. The buildings and the Int Base will have to be sold or kept open as tourist attractions.
Then with the cash out of the picture maybe there will be some who still want to fool around with it. If so, fine, knock yourselves out. Just don’t charge ridiculous amounts and actually apply some real research. My guess is that it won’t get too far, but who knows.
Great comments Bruce. Gettin’ pretty hot around here huh Dave?
So true Bruce. Once the lawsuits start, unless Miscavige has all his cash already stashed in untraceable bank accounts, the hundreds of billions of dollars will ease away pretty fast- more than half to attorneys on either side.
Good Terra and Mike,
Spot on. ALL of the materials are on the web and free to view and use. i would only add one additional thought. It usually takes a guide who has explored those areas to successfully lead a student through to the desired end point. Thus, the few who have realized some worth to the materials, and are willing to help others, will have fun and success.
Too bad Hubbard didn’t stay with researching and being the nexus of the works. Money and power are indeed temptations that are hard to resist.
I Yawnalot says
Good Supervisors are a real gem, so it is said. It was too much researching that drove Hubbard insane. To continually fix something over and over defeats and invalidates what is already there. It was long term dedicated people who bore the brunt of the insanity of his organisational and technical fiddling. He should have been nice to them and treated them with the respect they deserved. Miscavige on the other hand just hates them all!
After learning the true background of LRH, I can’t see how anyone would want to use his Tech/Philosophy. He created a movement that has spanned over 50 years and still running out of lies and deceit. So many good decent people have been hoodwinked. I never could understand why he was able to enjoy his life and luxury while SO members were made to give up their life and only live for the 3rd Dynamic. LRH was a delusional man and has hurt more souls than he was claimed to have helped. It’s time to put an end to his cruel and twisted game.
I cannot see, from my own perspective, how anyone would buy into Scientology. But I can read Hubbard’s works and, more importantly, listen to his voice on tape. And if people reading and hearing that kooky blather can find value in it, then no amount of revelation about his true background would deter them seeking that value. You can tell he’s making it up as he goes. It’s the classic cant of a pathological liar. I’m not going to criticize people who were and are nonetheless attracted to it. Xenu knows I’ve fallen for some silly nonsense in my time. My point is that the truth about Hubbard the man is no guaranteed antidote for those engulfed by the hope they get from hearing his promises of superhuman abilities and eternal existence.
Carlos, if you start out knowing you are reading documents written by a man who lied about his childhood, his education, his war record, his marriages, you don’t get far. There are lots of holes.
If you dive into Hubbard’s works starry eyed and believing all the lies at the start, you believe that you must be so unedumacated that you just need to figger out what he’s talking about. I always felt like the man must be smarter than me because so many of his writings were so un-understandable. It was actually a relief to find out he was simply blowing smoke.
One time when I was down and out with an alcoholic husband I went to Al-Anon for 10 years 3 times a week and my husband eventually went to AA and got sober and our family got better and he quit drinking. Early on, however, I got caught up in a section of Al-Anon that was a cult. When I wanted to “freely’ leave they got angry and if you did leave, they would no longer speak to you. I got wise quick, think i was there just a few months, funny to laugh at all the stuff they did. I was so down at the time that I need the structure that the “Program” provided. when i got out I found out there were many other “survivors” and we would all talk about the similar treatment. Kingpin people at the top who would “take care of you” ….I have also been raised Catholic, I am now Christian. All forms of groups I see cult -ike practices (they don’t want you to leave).
I have chosen to stay in my christian local church even though some stuff they do is cult-like.
No one is perfect. But after reading the Bible, a lot makes sense, when you are down, the devil will come after you, he is waiting for you always. There is a conscious/soul in all of us, that’s why that kid on 20/20 who was born into it got out, we know in our heart and soul its wrong.
Life is about suffering, it says so in the Bible. And, actually, I heard that from someone in Al-Anon, as we are allowed technically to talk about God in Al-Anon, that’s how I eventually quit Al-Anon, and only go to church now.
I’m not perfect, but I find my answers and warnings from the Bible.
Barbara Carr says
Having been a member of Al-anon for 10 years or so, I never heard about or saw anything coercive re:stay in or you’re out. I left gradually and knew others who left abruptly and never experienced, witnessed nor heard of some sort of disconnection action, written or implied. I’m not saying you didn’t become involved with a group like this. I don’t want a nationally accepted group that has genuinely helped probably hundreds of thousands of people over the years to be reduced to something cult-like over the strength of your experience. “Take what you like and leave the rest ” is one of Al-anon’s principal tenets. Had I not had this not for profit group to rely on I probably would have divorced my husband of six years. Instead, my husband and I will celebrate 37 years of marriage in March. So while there may be pockets of extremists in any group of like minded people, you must take care not to condemn whole organizations while knowing the actions of few.
You are right Barbara —AA and Al-Anon saved our family.
But there was a sect of it that turned into a cult so just for all to be aware.
I have skimmed over the blog “They Should Not Have Died” and the other one “Why Are They Dead” and I’ve concluded that LRH was evil incarnate.
So many innocent people have died who just wanted something they could believe in.
They died either out of fear they had no other options or at the hands of another regardless they should be alive but an evil entity bent on protecting the secrets of just how evil it is saw to it they were silenced.
Memo to DM: “LRH is not coming back in fact he’s waiting for you in a place good people don’t go to”.
Having experienced the tech for decades I consider there is useful material Hubbard put together. It needs to be stated that most of his tech came from earlier writers and philosophers. Culling out the blatant lies makes some of his tech and policy useful.
Removing those lies means a huge number of his lectures and books would go bye bye.
There is validity to some of the auditing. Mostly lower level material.
Mikes got it right. And the true tests are the results of the indie field auditors and missions. They will grow or not based on their skill level and knowing what to use and not to use.
The key factor is that Scientology does not have all the answers and never will.
Successfull Therapists could use Scientology processes along with so many other successful therapies to actually help people. That is most likely what will happen in the future.
A point being missed: Scientology in this country is classified as a religion. As such, no proof is required of its effectiveness. A person accepts or rejects the success of the tech based on their own experience or faith.
Love TC’s abd MR’s view of what a ‘new scientology’ would look like. However, I must take issue with the statement “…if a therapist gets results….”. An Scn auditor is not a therapist, unless licensed by their state. It makes me nervous when the terms therapist and auditor are used interchangeably. They are definitely not the same.
Harpoona Frittata says
Exactly! Just as $cn auditors should not be thought of as just another variety of professional counseling therapist, $cn should not be considered as being developed from or reconcilable with any of the sub-fields of mainstream science.
Scientology is recognized by the IRS as a tax-exempt nonprofit organization operated for religious purposes. That is the only “official” recognition of it as a religion. The U.S. government doesn’t license religions or decide what is a religion.
“501(c)(3) tax-exemptions apply to entities that are organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, literary, or educational purposes, or for testing for public safety, or to foster national or international amateur sports competition, or for the prevention of cruelty to children or animals.”
Whether Scientology is a religion is up to each individual to decide. Any group can claim to be a religion, whether it is recognized by the IRS or not. The IRS 501(c)(3) classification just means that donations to that group are tax deductible and that the group is not operated for profit.
Taking the pessimistic view, with control of a vast fortune at stake, I have to assume that another self-serving despot will take DM’s place and change nothing.
I really don’t think so…DM has seen to that. He hasn’t let anyone else become strong enough or popular enough to take over. Anyone else who had any direct connections with LRH is long gone or are mind wiped zombies in the RPF. Scientology is now so focused on HIM that no one else has the “mana” to take it over and keep it going when he goes. When DM goes, the spell will be broken, and the COS will dissolve. The money will disappear into lawyers’ pockets in a flurry of doomed lawsuits, and the survivors will be left with the shirts on their backs, sadly.
An interesting thing was outlined in Steve Cannane’s Fair Game. Terri Gamboa was a lifetime Trustee named by LRH. She had no idea this was a fact. As such, she, along with Marion Pouw and Greg Wilhere are all David Miscavige’s senior, although Terri is the only one who is aware of that because she is on the outside. The book discusses Terri’s decision making process when choosing NOT to take over and how fruitless it would be.
I agree with Mike. If a person really agrees with Hubbard’s writings, they should have access to them. The heirarchy, however, is a part of his writings (OEC Volumes) and sorting out what was Hubbard original and what has since been modified by Miscavige would be close to impossible IMHO. Then there’s the matter of sorting out what Hubbard plagiarized from others…
Putting all that aside, According to Hubbard’s own writings and contracts, the billion year contract allows 21 years after death before the person is supposed to return to post. That would now make Hubbard 10 years overdue based on his own dictums.
Barbara Carr says
You’re late Ron. Can’t let ya back in buddy. Sorry, but that’s directly from the top. No, no, no. I didn’t say you wrote it. David Miscavige sent a memo out two days after you went out of body (but before you started to stink) that on no account were you to be permitted to come back without first going to RPG. You see, you left without telling HIM, therefore you blew. So…
Harpoona Frittata says
At the time that lil davey and Marty Mark rolled the IRS and obtained 510c3 federal tax-exempt status for the cult, that status was granted based on the documentation that they provided concerning the cherch’s intricate corporate organizational structure and the various separate corporations within it bylaws and rules and procedures which prescribe how the cherch is to be managed internally in order to meet the standards set by the IRS in achieving the charitable purposes for which it was granted non-profit status to begin with.
Obviously, keeping other board directors and lifetime trustees in the dark concerning the power that they actually have and disappearing the upper executive management structure is NOT the way $cn was supposed to be operated or in keeping with the deal that lil davey was able to strike with the IRS. Indeed, my bet is that if a deep and thorough IRS investigation of the cult were to be implemented, a huge number of violations of these various corporate cherch entities would be discovered, all leading back to lil davey and documenting his illegal rise to power.
Getting an investigation like that going is another thing entirely, especially if those still-in folks who continue to support the cherch financially don’t have the gumption to demand a full and transparent accounting of the cult’s resources and expenditures be made available to them.
Hmmmm. Interesting question.
I loved the scientology I got into and because of my emotional state at the time, I don’t think my life would have been better if I hadn’t gotten it. Having said that if someone were to ask me if would I get in it again back then knowing the outcome, the answer would be, “Hell No!”
The scientology I got into helped me get on my emotional feet and find my way when I was in my 20’s. I also had some amazing sessions that would not have happened anywhere else. Some of these session results faded over time but awakened me to the existence of a spiritual reality that I didn’t know existed. (I’m sure some have scientific explanations for this.) I could have stopped it by ’87 (and probably should have) and not had a bad word to say about it even though I didn’t fully believe in its tenets and a lot of what LRH had to say by that time. When I first got in KSW wasn’t a mantra, “going to Ethics” was non-existent, and the poundings of the principals of the PTS/SP Crs was not even in view. The only mantra I heard was, “Get training, get auditing.”
I agree that this church unfolded the way it did not only because of the policies (and even the behavior) of LRH and the leadership of it taken over by a madman but also because of time and the cultural and technological changes that have taken place.
I don’t know what will rise from the ashes of what’s left of this church when david miscavige is through with it but I do feel that there are a few things that need to be shit canned … like PTS/SP Course, Ethics technology, deciding who is an SP and dictating Disconnections, abolishment of the Sea Org with restitutions made, the upper management organizational structure … for starters.
I Yawnalot says
Yep… that’s more or less a very good summation of events that time period had to offer. Should have left when the going was good too.
Throw the psychopath out with the bath water. If anyone wants to glean any “data” they might think valuable…well it’s a free country. Except of course for those victims now held in the “prison of belief”.
And BTW it is this SP’s opinion that the “prison of belief” is now an actual prison. There are those who are being held actual prisoners I have no doubt who might with info they have that would if revealed put the midget behind bars for this lifetime and many more to come.
Mike Wynski says
After blowing away all the smoke and obfuscation generated the very few remaining Ron Bots outside the church, the FACT is that the CoS no longer goes after Indies who are advertising services (Mike said greatly thanks to Marty Rathbun and his actions and work) yet, YET you don’t see ANY booming Indie Orgs. The only Indie Org I know of in the USA advertises out of Georgia. I drove by and there are no crowds there at anytime.
In short, show the beef or admit failure due to no workable tech that will attract more than flies.
Terra Cognita for the leader of the COS!!!!!!111!!!eleven!!!!
Uhm. Wait, Maybe he/she doens’t want that. 🙂
John P. Capitalist says
Mike says: “Make all dianetics and scientology materials available for free. Catalog and categorize them, put them on the internet for anyone to download — this means EVERYTHING made available including all OT levels, all “advices”, all Flag Orders and administrative issue. Let people freely use and apply them. If people find they work they will be a sensation that will make Pokemon Go look like a tempest in a teapot.”
That’s a mighty big “if” in the last sentence at the end. I strongly suspect that if you were to do a clinical trial of basic Scientology auditing, you would find it to be somewhat greater than zero effectiveness but far less than any form of psychological counseling that has had proper clinical trials performed. It is even possible that Scientology auditing is less effective than a “placebo effect” counseling technique done as a control. In other words, just having someone listen to you talk about your problems is helpful, even if there is no “technique” involved.
And auditing takes a lot of time. At $100 per hour, doing 10 hours per week, which is what I recall a lot of people doing in their Scientology careers, is $1,000 per week at the suggested $100 per hour, or $50,000 per year. That’s a LOT of money. Very few people in the world have $50,000 per year in disposable income lying around. Studies have shown that over half of the US population can’t lay hands on $500 for an emergency car repair, so $50,000 a year for relatively ineffective auditing is inconceivable to all but a handful of people in the world. So the economics even at the relatively affordable $100 per hour rate is still unlikely to work.
I view auditing as something similar to quack cancer cures — some percentage of stage one tumors go into spontaneous remission when people are taking “miracle cures” as well as when they’re not. Proponents of those “miracle cures” then say that it cured their cancer. But anecdotal evidence like a couple of cases don’t prove effectiveness because they ignore all the times the supposed “miracle cure” either did nothing or actively harmed the patient.
So I don’t deny there were times auditing actually delivered life changing wins. But you have to count those as part of every single person who picked up “the cans” to get the real effectiveness. The majority of people felt they got no benefit, because they tried 2-3 intro sessions and never went back into the org. And some were actively harmed (probably not many for casual auditing, but probably quite a few went around the bend trying to exorcies those invisible dead space cooties clinging to their skin during thousands of hours of OT VII). Against all who ever tried auditing, the number of people who got life-changing wins while auditing is minimal.
I’ve said frequently that the only way auditing delivers perceived benefit is with a hugely punitive organization that punishes you whenever you have doubts about the effectiveness of the technique. Without the punitive organization, eventually, few people would practice Scientology self-help techniques. Look at the Freezone and other “indie” movements for proof that practicing Scientology outside the confines of the evil and controlling organization is merely a way station out of the cult for most people.
Also, the Scientology confidential materials already ARE freely available on the Internet . You can download them from Wikileaks and many other places. And there already are inexpensive third-party e-meter devices that you can hook up to your PC with software that will capture every little jiggle of the needle so you can triumphantly remember every single floating needle you ever got. And even though the materials have been out there for a while, and even though the cult hasn’t sued anyone for violating its copyrights for decades, and even though there are e-meters available, none of that hasn’t helped the “indie” movement to “disseminate.”
Ms. B. Haven says
John P. sez:
“It is even possible that Scientology auditing is less effective than a “placebo effect” counseling technique done as a control. In other words, just having someone listen to you talk about your problems is helpful, even if there is no “technique” involved.”
Agreed. I would refer everyone back to yesterday’s Regraded Being strip, panel four where smokin’ dude says; “I still remember when we used to trust each other and help each other out through rough patches with Two-Way Comm.” In other words, most people feel better about their difficulties in life if they just have a empathetic, caring, understanding person to talk things through with. With few exceptions, a scientology auditor does not fall into that category. After being thoroughly trained to ‘listen’ using Training Routines (TRs) you usually end up with a somewhat robotic person trying to counsel you with robotic and inapplicable processes.
Take the ‘ethics’ enforcement out of scientology and you will see the movement fade away like a bad dream. Dianetics was initially a hit but quickly faded when people discovered it didn’t work as claimed. Not even close. Anyone is free to pick up a copy of DMSMH on Amazn and ‘audit’ and make a ‘clear’. Over 60 years after its publication, despite countless revisions and upgrades to the ‘tech’, there are still no ‘clears’, let alone ‘OTs”. At least I haven’t seen one and I don’t know of anyone else who has.
Clinical trials of counselling? That’ll be the day! Clinical trials are for drugs not counselling techniques. Lack of speedy results was the reason “biopsychiatry” took over the institutions in this country. Insurance companies were screaming bloody murder at the prolonged hospitalizations and treatments psycholanalytically oriented psychiatrists were providing. Insurance companies were simply saying NO, we won’t pay for all that. There are attempts to study the effectivenss of rugs vs. “talk therapy”, but there is actually no way true clinical trials of counselling techniques could be set up and run, for rrasons which should be obvious to anyone who thinks about it.
Typo. Should be “DRUGS vs. “talk therapy”…
Harpoona Frittata says
“Clinical trials” is the language used to describe the testing of new pharmaceutical drugs and medical appliances, such as stents. The relative efficacy of various counseling models and techniques don’t undergo clinical trials in the same ways as drugs do, but there is a long history of evaluating their relative degree of efficacy through controlled research studies.
Elron initially submitted Dianetics to just this type of psychology research validation, but the results were so poor that he never again did anything like that. Various measurement and assessment tools have continued to be developed and validated since then in order to compare and contrast the efficacy of various counseling methods relative to each other and to other intervention strategies, such as psychopharmacological approaches, meditation, prayer, etc.
This research field and its professional literature is quite well developed and has the tools of rigorous objective evaluation which could be used to study $cn in a rigorous and objective manner…that is, if anyone actually cared to try to put the “scio” in scientology for the first time. I’ve been arguing that Indies who continue to believe in the practical value of Dn and $cn auditing techniques need to do just this as the corporate cherch continues to implode, if they are to have any hope whatsoever of preserving what is actually of value from all the dross.
John P. Capitalist says
I’m quite familiar with clinical trial techniques for drugs, since we in Global Capitalism HQ own perhaps $100 billion in stock of various drug and medical device companies. It’s not possible to do a double-blind study on a technique like Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. But there are significant numbers of scientifically-modeled studies measuring population-level results from it and for many other responsible “talk therapy” techniques. See the Wikipedia article on CBT for the beginning of a discussion about the work that has gone into measuring the effectiveness of this particular technique.
So yes, there most certainly are trials that measure effectiveness of talk therapy. They’re not double-blind but they’re considered scientifically valid.
Incidentally, psychoanalysis is largely discredited at this point because it is exactly a case study in “all talk, no action.” So while it may have been a contributing factor in moving to a bias towards drug-oriented psychiatry (I think discovery of drugs for less-severe conditions, drugs like Prozac or Valium were the major drivers), it was not the only thing. And the failure of psychoanalysis doesn’t imply that other talk therapy methods are suspect.
John, as usual I think your analysis is thorough and spot-on.
I would add, that I suspect that auditing may also have somewhat greater effect in the hothouse environment that the Scientology organizations create, explaining in part why the independent “freezone” seems unable to garner as much demand for auditing services.
To begin with, there is research showing that social support increases the placebo effect, so all the hype and even pressure within CoS may accentuate that effect to whatever extent it might actually be at work. Then, that sort of environment is also likely to accentuate distorting factors such members’ tendency to attribute anything positive that happens in their lives to auditing (the fallacy/bias of “false attribution”), and even to believe in “gains” when none were actually achieved (a form of confirmation bias, similar to the overconfidence bias that causes investors to internally emphasize their wins and downplay their losses, thus overestimating their personal ability and results).
Also, there is that fact due to the organizational pressure, Scientologists are often doing more hours of auditing per week than most people would do (or think they could afford) of some other sort of more mainstream therapy. That would tend to accelerate any possible actual benefits of the lower levels of auditing compared to a normal course of some other type of therapy, not because it is more effective but just because it is being done more effectively. That means that, ironically, many Scientologists are getting more hours of auditing weekly, than anyone on the outside would of any other sort of therapy unless they were in some institution like a psychiatric hospital!
PeaceMaker, I’m posting this because I think it is relevant as a comparison. Donald Trump appears to be engaged in a continuous process of “positive afformation” about himself, and reality as he wants it to be. He learned this as a child from Norman Vincent Peale, whose church he attended. Here is Steve Hassan’s take on it: http://www.revelist.com/politics/donald-trump-cult/5232/default/5
This pretty well explains much of Trump’s behavior and conduct. He complains about and attacks anyone who minimizes or disagrees with his positive affirmations. This dovetails with what you posted about social support enhancing placebo effects, in his case, of his affirmations about himself and the world.
I think this was also the case with Hubbard. The parallels seem very much there, and we know that Hubbard was very much aware of self hypnosis (Coue-ism) and used it on himself, as his “affirmations have been published. He reacted in similar way to Trump’s, to anyone who disagreed with him, or who he felt was upstaging him.
“Positve Postulating” is a big part of the Church of Scientology culture. We can speculate that Miscavige is or has also practiced this kind of thing. Certainly the die-hard “innies” do. “it’s true if it’s true for you”, right? They have it backwards, of course.
iamvalkov, I only just noticed that this post from a couple of days ago was addressed to me.
I think that the analyses we have seen that Hubbard and Trump are both examples of narcissistic personality disorder (or psychopathy), are accurate and also explain many of the behavioral traits that are common to both of them, including grandiose self-image plus always blaming and even attacking others. And Trump does seem to me to be someone who uses his words to reaffirm his internal reality, something that probably has helped him in his dogged pursuit of certain goals but which obviously leaves him blinded to many realities – much as was the case with Hubbard.
Miscavige seems to have had a personality with enormous determination to begin with. As the leader of Scientology he is certainly “postulating” what he wants to have happen and accomplished some feats like the IRS agreement that way, though he must increasingly be failing in his aims. I don’t know that he specifically practices affirmation the way that Hubbard did or that Trump may, however, especially with regards to personal goals.
Joe Pendleton says
Who knows … but kinda fun to speculate.
We do have to separate LRH’s spiritual writings and techniques from the physical aspects of the CoS though. That is, of course, because the CoS has a tremendous amount of both very valuable real estate and many hundreds of millions or billions in cash reserves. Whether Miscavige dies tomorrow or twenty years from now, there will be people who will want to control those resources. And so there will be SOME contention for this control, very little contention or very large. Will there be anyone capable of keeping together the CoS as an entity or even making it more kind and gentle and appealing? Again … who knows.
I disagree with Wynski in that I think that a whole lot of LRH’s stuff is extremely workable and valuable. That’s because I’ve seen the results with myself, and many hundreds of people that I’ve personally audited and/or CS’d. Though I no longer agree with ALL that LRH wrote and I certainly would never be a Scientologist again.
I do agree with what Mike Rinder said in his closing comments to the post. Though I think that public interest in the works of Scientology in the present have been almost totally poisoned by the CoS’s actions over the past fifty years. I think that broad interest in using these works is probably a hundred or more years in the future. But if there is ANY chance that they will be used, it is as Mike suggested. If it is all available for free, then there is the chance that a few thousand or a few million might say “Hmmmm …. I think I’d like to try this …” and then there could be a huge explosion of interest in these works (sans 90% of LRH policy) … again … Who knows.
Despite being a bona-fide SP, I still think the IDEA behind Scn is a good idea. I had hoped Scn v1.0 was the real deal. I think there should be REAL scientific research into the life force phenomena and consciousness.
Hubbard included The Hubbard Dianetic Research Foundation in his org board. Like most things in Scn, nothing is what it seems. But, what if they actually did research? Things would be very different. Unfortunately, Hubbard never intended for any research be done.
KSW #1 was Hubbard’s coming-out declaration, as The One, True Grand Pooba. It’s been downhill ever since.
Mike Wynski says
The question is moot and not applicable. There is so little of value in the “tech” that one could NEVER create a viable anything out of it.
As far as what would happen is you stripped ALL criminality out of the tech & policy. It would then end as Christian Science has ended. And for the same basic reason. There is nothing of real value to exchange valuables for.
“It would then end as Christian Science has ended”.
Not to pick or anything but I thought Christian Science was still around.
Mike Wynski says
alcoboyy, the legal structure still owns buildings here and there. As a movement it is dead.
Oh, okay. Thanks for the clarification. I see what you’re saying now.
John P. Capitalist says
The number of Christian Science “practitioners” in the US has dropped by over 80% since 1971. The number of Christian Science churches has dropped by 58% in that same time frame. Those are hard, verifiable numbers and not estimates (I got ’em on “quackwatch.com.”) Actual members are tricky to assess, but I’m gonna guess that the amount of the decline is somewhere between the two. I’d guess membership is somewhere around 60,000 in the US, with some additional, but not much in the rest of the world.
With the advent of modern medicine, it’s hard to argue that Christian Science “practice” can come even remotely close to what can be achieved with evidence-based (i.e., scientific) treatment. As a result, the number of young people born to Christian Scientist parents who stay with the faith is likely minuscule. The Amish have a far better retention rate of their kids.
Mark Twain wrote a wonderful essay trashing Christian Science with his usual wit. Worth a read. Interestingly, Clara, Twain’s only surviving daughter, became a Christian Scientist later in life.
Wynski, its a done deal and ha been for many years, and has been spreading worldwide: https://whyweprotest.net/threads/frank-a-gerbode-the-scientific-fruit-of-scientology.110846/
Mike Wynski says
LMAO iamvalkov. You ARE clueless.
Clueless about what? I’m dumb and stupid. How about you spell it out for retards like me!
Mike Wynski says
iamvalkov, There is ZERO evidence that the thing you posted about (via a single blurb) is spreading widely as a viable entity and useful technology.
I know, as someone who is still trapped by Hubbard’s mind control, that you will grasp any straw, no matter how moldy, to try and justify clinging to his scam.
Mike, see my reply to PeaceMaker below. Beyond that, let me make sure you understand that your opinions on the subject, the ones I’ve read, have no credibility at all with me. They seem to be of the same ilk as Trump’s “alternative facts” – ie, what you wish the reality would be, not what it actually is. And, your imaginings about my psychology are inane to say the least. You actually have no idea what my relationship to scientology is or has been in the past, yet you think you can somehow psychoanalize me at a distance. That is a delusion.
iamvalkov, I’m familiar with “Sarge” Gerbode’s TIR (Traumatic Incident Reduction). But what leads you to conclude that it is really “spreading worldwide,” particularly to any extent that’s really notable? He’s been doing that work since at least the 1980s, and while I think it is admirable and probably has some usefulness, it hardly validates Hubbard’s work or shows that his principles can be used to produce truly remarkable results. For instance, a quick look at Google Scholar shows that EMDR (Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing) has about ten times as many citations as TIR.
The TIR website itself, does lead to good examples of how a therapy can be properly structured and then scientifically studied.
TIR is recognized by the government as an evidence-based therapeutic practice.
TIR is listed on SAMHSA’s National Registry of Evidence-based Programs and Practices. The Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMHSA) is an agency of the U.S. federal government.
I don’t know what your standard for “really notable” is. However, there is an International Association and it is taught and practiced in some European countries. Of course, so are Rons Orgs, aren’t they? Is their spread and longevity “notable”? I have no idea. Is the continued existence of Transactional Analysis “notable”? I guess it’s notable if it’s notable to you. And not notable, if it’s not notable to ypu. But who cares? People are using the principles of these subjects to help othrs, and I say, “Good for them!” Perhaps there are problems with expanding too fast. Like “fast food”, the quality goes out the bottom. Perhaps these other practices are expanding the smart way – slowly, in a measured way.
I do believe the CoS is an aberration and cannot stand on its own merits. It’ll persist as long as it has money enough, and no longer. But look at Christian Science. They still have reading rooms around. But I’ve never met a Christian Scientists. Ate they hoding up their little corner of the universe? I don’t know. But they don’t seem to be hurting anyone.
iamvalkov, I didn’t see your reply until now, and since it’s two days later I am going to try to be brief in my response.
Your reference to TIR “spreading worldwide” sounded to me a bit like Scientology’s overblown claims about “expansion,” but perhaps I misinterpreted that. My point is just that while TIR has gained some acceptance that it probably merits, it does not stand out as notably more effective than a number of other contemporary therapies, and seems to have garnered significantly less professional interest (as measured by scholarly citations) than EMDR as one example.
It’s also not clear how much TIR could be seen as a validation of Hubbard’s “tech”, or how much Gerbode went back to Dianetics’ actual sources in earlier therapies like abreaction, and to what extent TIR represents new developments (particularly as it is practiced now). I think that it points to a reasonable assumption that Dianetics has some elements that provide moderate therapeutic benefits though nothing truly remarkable much less revolutionary (as Hubbard claimed), but it’s hardly solid proof of even that.
I appreciate that Gerbode did what he did. He showed us the sort of real science and proper research that Hubbard should have done, and that Scientology could do now if it chose to (at least with Dianetics). TIR goes towards giving us some explanation and partial proof of how some of Hubbard’s work may provide benefits. Sarge created something that probably does help people without extraordinary expense, and that can be applied professionally without risk of doing harm in some cases (a problem with the application of Dianetics under Hubbard, perhaps inherited from catharitic and abreaction therapies’ adverse effects). And he ultimately provided proof that whatever there might have been that is “workable” in Hubbard’s work, it is not actually anything remarkable.
On a related note, I want to point out that the failure of Narconon to demonstrably outperform other drug treatment programs, is also an example that even the fundamental methods of Dianetics and Scientology can not be particularly more effective than other therapies. I know that apologists like to claim that lack of results are due to mis-application, but Narconon should be able to produce remarkable and incontrovertible results for addicts if some of Hubbard’s basic and most easily applied principles (including the vitamin and sauna routines) actually had any particular power.
You sound like Eeyore. To be brief, it sounds like you’re looking for miracles, and poo-pooing anything that’s not. You set the bar so high you leave yourself repeatedly disappointed.
I have a few ideas about what happened with Narconon, but I don’t really know. Basically it appears many, perhaps all, Narconons were operated in a very unprofessional way. On top of pushing grandiose expectations. A deadly combination.
iamvalkov, my point is that the techniques are supposed to produce miracles according to Hubbard, Scientology, and many of the independents – or at least to be “revolutionary” and powerful enough to “clear the planet.” But they clearly don’t stand up to their own internal claims.
Also, I’ve read that TIR took a lot from other therapeutic methodologies as it evolved over the decades, so it’s not even clear that any results from TIR validate Dianetics of other of Hubbard’s “tech” as being any better than placebo (not mention risking adverse effects). I’d be willing to grant you that a proper study of Dianetics would more likely than not produce some evidence of benefits, but even that has yet to be proven after more than 65 years – plus I’d be concerned that, as proved the case with abreaction, there would be a significant incidence of adverse reactions as well.
As for Narconon, if Hubbard’s theories were correct just the “purification” sauna and vitamin regimen should cure a lot of addicts, and a bit of basic Dianetic “book one” co-auditing that anyone should be able to do would make it a slam-dunk. Even if there’s a bit more to it than that, at least one Narconon in half a century should have been able to not screw it up and produce some remarkable results that could be cited, plus if there were really something to it some professional for-profit operator would have figured out what Gerbode did with TIR (or license TIR) and made the big bucks off a gangbuster therapy that Hubbard dreamed of.
So what’s the point in pursuing a therapy that is at best no more marginally effective than many others, and that is apparently quite difficult if not virtually impossible to apply properly, except that you already have a lot invested in?
See the fallacy/bias of escalation of commitment (and sunk costs), https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Escalation_of_commitment
p.s. If you’re impressed by the sort of phenomenon like “exeriorization,” or out-of-body experiences occasionally experienced in Dianetics and Scientology, there are a number of mechanical methods, including sensory deprivation, that produce them more frequently than do Hubbard’s techniques.
Now you sound more like an armchair wattior, someone who has never audited at all, or looked at RIR directly yourself. AS such, we cannot have a dialogue about it. You read something ABOUT TIR. Have you read/studied any of the TIR materials yourself? It sounds like not.
I am very familiar with the fields of therapy, since I worked in psychiatric/psychological therapeutic settings for about 13 years, as direct care staff. So when I post, it’s about the nuts and bolts how-to of therapy and how to do it.
I’m not interested in Hubbard’s hyperbole. The auditing techniques of scientology need to be judged on their own merits, not on what Hubbard claimed for them. I am not a “trained auditor” but I have run a few sessions and found my results satisfactory, and more certain than other approaches. I’m not looking for miracles. If you’re looking for miracles, try praying.
iamvalkov, you seem to me to have some particular interest in defending Hubbard’s work, though perhaps I have misinterpreted that in the course of this long and chopped-up discussion.
I have a fair bit of experience with the subjects at hand, including some that is perhaps quite remarkable. But since I’ve learned that anecdotal experience doesn’t carry scientific weight and isn’t really useful in discussion seeking the truth, I don’t see any point in getting into it.
I’ve known about TIR for a long time and looked into its results once some good studies were published, but haven’t pursued it as I had other things to focus on. I do for instance have some experience with EMDR, which I didn’t find very effective, but since there seems to be evidence that it does work I’m not going to judge it based on my personal or anecdotal experience.
If auditing seems to you to have produced some results, I’d grant you the benefit of the doubt. But that tells us nothing about the effectiveness of Hubbard’s techniques in general, or their real merits (if any).
No problem PeaceMaker. I simply don’t understand very well where you’re coming from, your orientation to these things. We don’t seem to be on the same page on these subjects, looking at them with difference assumptions and standards. To me, things are what they are, and that’s about all I can say on the subject. I’ve had a long standing interest in clinical matters, although I no longer work in any related area. I just don’t bother to dichotomize things the way you seem to. All that seems irrelevant to living a good and satisfying life. Best wishes.
PeaceMaker, what some people don’t get is that I have no interest in either attacking Hubbard’s work, or defending it. I take from it what I like or can use constructively, and leave the rest. I always had the impression that’s what scientology is basically all about, and that’s all I was ever interested in. Yes, yes, I know Hubbard tried to craete a culty “church” organization based on the scientology philosophy, although I think that’s not a correct statement. I think what Hubbard got all involved with, was the attempt to create an organizartion for the delivery and perpetuation of the scientology philosophy and technics. The existing CoS is not the only possible form, and need not have developed the way it did. They things he did, the decisions he made must have seemed necessary or desirable at tyhe time, but could have been different. That should be obvious. I just don’t have an axe to grind either way Those who are at either extreme, seem to perceive me accordingly – I am either “defending” or “attacking”. That’s their own limitations speaking, projections of their minds, not an accurate perception of me. I hope that clarifies me somewhat.
iamvalkov, I tend to take a middle position on most things, and then sometimes find myself accused by one side of being on the other side, so I can relate to what you’re saying.
For reasons from the personal to concern about societal issues, and trying to understand things I’ve experienced and observed, I’ve followed the subject for a long time, and have been working to come up with a good historical and theoretical understanding of just what happened with Hubbard and his organizations.
Dianetics might have had a sort of take it or leave it approach, as you put it – for the first year or so. I think there is ample evidence that Hubbard was primarily interested in money and fame, which fits with what we were talking about elsewhere regarding his narcissistic personality and how it is similar to Trump’s. Techniques that benefitted people were the means to an end, or a way to get players in Hubbard’s “game” (if you’ve ever read anything about his “game theory”). When he quickly found out that he couldn’t make enough money and maintain his position without more control, he developed the structures of Scientology, which also fit with his descent (probably fueled in part by drugs) into the bizarre space opera “upper level” cosmology of Xenu and body thetans (which sound a lot like delusional parasitosis from stimulant abuse).
So I’m concerned that anything that followed inevitably has elements of control in its constructs, as well as being marked by the defects of Hubbard’s unscientific approach and of his narcissistic personality (including the absence of empathy). Only a very few approaches like TIR and presumably the practices of a few in the “freezone” may have succeeded in distilling out the good, but I think we have to be extremely careful.
Have you read any of the books like Messiah or Madman, or A Piece of Blue Sky? The more sensational issues about Scientology aside, I think they provide an interesting study of Hubbard and how his organizations evolved.
PeaceMaker, regarding the book “A Piece of Blue Sky,” there is a review of it by Ken Urquhart, who knew Ron personally and worked directly with him for almost a decade in the ’60s and ’70s. After that, he was an international exec, and lastly a Class IX auditor in the NOTs HGC at Flag. Thus, his review of the book is based on extensive experience in both tech and admin and in working with Ron. It’s kind of long, but I get that you’re interested in facts, and Ken knows more actual facts about Hubbard in the earlier decades than almost anybody, as well as thoroughtly knowing the tech and the history of the church up to the ’80s. I think you’ll appreciate what he writes also because it basically takes “a middle position,” while exposing the worst along with the best. Since you are a serious student of Scientology, I’m sure you’ll enjoy it. Here’s the link:
Marildi- I read Urquhart analysis of “Blue Sky” ( thanks for the link). Having read that book and six others on LRH and CoS in the last month, I come away with the impression of ‘snarky’ as to his observations, conclusions and his ability to read the intentions of the author and the minds of the reader. Definitely not ‘middle ground’ for me. But then, my truth is my truth and ” what’s real for you is real for you”.
I believe it is incumbent upon any reader of non-fiction to consider first, the point of view of the author, before making any blanket judgements or statements as to intentions or intended results for the reader. As a new explorer of this movement, I’ll read everything I can, both pro and con, and come to my personal conclusion. So far, I am grateful to Mike, Jon, Lawrence, Leah, Tony, Jenna , LRH and the members of this blog for providing the tools to do so.
OhioBuckeye: “I come away with the impression of ‘snarky’ as to his observations, conclusions and his ability to read the intentions of the author and the minds of the reader. Definitely not ‘middle ground’ for me.”
I guess you could say Urquhart was snarky at times. But, unlike most of what Jon Atack writes, he then goes on to support his snarky take with knowledge based on direct, broad experience. As an example, in part two of the review, he starts off somewhat sarcastically where he indicates that “A Piece of Blue Sky” is written from the bias of LRH and the CoS being “the enemies” and then goes on to relate his personal knowledge:
“The first serious blow against the enemies, LRH and C of S, comes in a quote given on a page by itself immediately after the Contents. It is from an opinion that a Justice Latey handed down in a London court in 1984. ‘Scientology… is both immoral and sociably obnoxious…it is corrupt, sinister, and dangerous…because [it is] based on lies and deceit and has as its real objective money and power for Mr. Hubbard, his wife, and those close to him at the top.’”
Urquhart then says “We need to examine these statements briefly,” and does so, including the following:
“Nothing that Justice Latey states in this quote was true of the entirety of the C of S (or its predecessors) through all of its history. The organization always had to pay its bills so there was always a focus on income, which its people had to work for and earn. Over time that focus did become obsessive, but it was not always so. Not until the seventies did money become the supreme importance for either the organization or for LRH personally. Until he took action in the seventies to force some of the income into his own pockets he did not receive large amounts. I was close to the top up until 1978. I was responsible until around (I think) 1972 for the safekeeping of the money he did receive: his weekly pay of $80 (if I remember the figure right) and his monthly VA pension checks.” http://freezoneearth.org/ivy/bluesky/part2.htm
The above is also an example of what I meant by “middle ground.”
marildi, thanks for that, I’ve read Urquhart and I think may even have corresponded with him when I was looking into some specific issues long ago. I do need to re-read those pieces of his in detail and appreciate the link, but can refresh my memory enough to reply to you while this topic is still active.
Urquhart does offer some interesting up-close perspective and anecdotes, and admits to a lot of what was wrong about Hubbard though perhaps only to the extent of what is undeniable. He doesn’t seem to have done enough reading into “other practices” (early 20th century psychology, General Semantics, hypnotism, meditation, Theosophy and mysticism, Buddhism, etc.) to fully appreciate the extent to which Hubbard drew from earlier sources. I find him definitely somewhat on Hubbard’s side and, like OhioBuckeye wrote, a bit snarky or something similar.
I think it more fair to say that Urquhart only really had close contact with Hubbard during a couple of years in the 60s in England when things were going well and Hubbard’s demeanor seems to have been at its best, which he admits since he apparently can’t discount the later reports of Hubbard’s infamous shipboard behavior from so many people (who he probably knew). He also seems very much still under the sway of Hubbard’s personality, and not to have understood (or read enough to understand) that he might have just been experiencing a classic psychopath at work, taking him in with engaging charm.
Urquhart’s repeating of the “shore story” about Hubbard’s meager pay is telling, thought it may well be that it is all that he personally experienced. It’s perhaps revealing that he doesn’t admit that Hubbard (and his entire family) did at least live the lifestyle of the wealthy due to having full use of mansions, yachts, cars and motorcycles, having servants and being fed the finest food from around the world, and so on. However, the IRS’ 1967 revocation of Scientology’s tax exempt status after an extensive audit of records occurred because it was determined that Hubbard and his wife were privately benefitting from the organization, so there was inurement before “the seventies.” The case documented large salaries being paid to them and cash couriered to Hubbard’s European bank accounts (and continuing into the early 1970s according to later court filings) though those may have been from different corporations and to different accounts than Urquhart dealt with. I can’t remember how much of this is covered by Miller and Atack, but it’s in the public record (news articles from the time, plus later investigative pieces) and has been thoroughly discussed in ex-member circles, including corroboration from some of the former couriers who moved suitcases full of cash and even saw pallets of money in European banks. That Urquhart didn’t question the Hubbards’ lavish lifestyle at the time, and seems ignorant of all the evidence that has surfaced and been discussed among his peers in the meantime, suggests to me a sort of “see no evil, hear no evil” attitude. While looking for something else, I notice that at one point he did admit:
“I for one wondered, but did not ask Who is selling what, how, to whom? John Atak, I am sorry.” (IVy Issue 35, January 1998)
Here’s part of what Urquhart apparently wasn’t actually in a position to know, and has never informed himself about:
“18 During the 1960’s, Scientology organizations around the world were required to pay directly to L. Ron Hubbard, ten percent of their income. These payments were termed “debt repayments” because they were designed to compensate Hubbard for his work in originating the Scientology religion.” (823 F. 2d 1310 – Church of Scientology of California v. Commissioner of Internal Revenue, 1987)
If he had to confront just how much of the finances and self-dealing Hubbard kept hidden even when Urquhart thought he was “close to the top,” he might start to really wonder what else Hubbard kept concealed. Or else we have to wonder just how much Urquhart is downplaying things he actually knows, in service to an image of Hubbard that he wants to defend.
PeaceMaker: “I do need to re-read those pieces of his in detail…”
I would have to agree with that, since much of what you wrote was either inaccurate, hearsay or pure conjecture – or what you’ve already made your mind up to. Just as you say Urquhart is “downplaying things he actually knows” because of wanting to defend Hubbard, I get the impression that you are doing the same – but in reverse.
What is “telling” is that you would quote that line of Urquhart’s without giving any context, since the line actually argues against a lot of what you say, such as where Urquhart describes Hubbard as both “charismatic and despotic.” Here’s what you quoted, along with the paragraph before it (although the whole article should be read, as it is all applicable context):
“This pressure [for statistics] did not originate with Hubbard, altogether, by my observation. He was concerned that the statistics increase, certainly. He never pushed for Income over all else. A number of executives around him found they could please him greatly with reports of large amounts of money brought in. To him this meant future delivery. But to please LRH could for many people become a focus, and to find any demonstrably workable way to gain his favour an obsession for some. When they found that he would not refuse transfers of large amounts of cash into his hands, they poured it in. You have to exist in or near the inner circle around a charismatic and despotic leader to experience this phenomenon, to understand the grip of that driving desire, the endless need for the word of acceptance, the nod of approval, the smile of recognition, the feeling of being included. These are all natural desires, of course, and healthy when anchored in integrity. But, in those days, in the early seventies, the floodgates were opened, the money flowed in. We all had to Hurrah every latest Highest Ever Gross Income.
“I for one wondered, but did not ask Who is selling what, how, to whom? John Atak, I am sorry. “
In other words, Urquhart is sorry that he, like other staff, did not question what was going on. He regrets that staff contributed to the “monster” the organization became, but he doesn’t “downplay” Hubbard’s part in it – unless you insist that Hubbard be given the whole blame for everything.
Correction: In the second paragraph, it should say “since the CONTEXT [not “line”] actually argues…”
First, see the part about Ken Urquhart and the RPF at the bottom, I just want to be sure that makes it into the summary header of this comment on an old topic.
Marildi, you’re right that the quote about Atack is somewhat out of context, but I still gets to the issue of Urquhart admitting to not having really wanted to know the truth of what was going on when there were suspicious signs.
What do you think it tells us about Urquhart and the reliability of his story that he says that Hubbard only got $80 per month salary in the late 60s, when there is now well known evidence and corroborating stories from Urquhart’s peers that even at that time Hubbard got 10% of Scientology income channeled to him in cash couriered to his secret accounts in European banking havens? Did he really not know in spite of thinking himself an insider, is he telling the official “acceptable truth” because the millions were not going into Hubbard’s regular checking accounts, and regardless of the backstory why does what he has written not account for what is now known?
That’s one example of several things that I think disqualify Urquhart for quite meriting the label of “middle of the road.” But he’s closer to the middle than a lot of loyalists and indies, did have a fair bit of direct experience during an interesting if brief period of Hubbard’s life and does report it with some balance including some unvarnished .
I look forward to getting a chance to re-read Urquhart when I can. One of the things that piques my curiosity, is understanding how to explain the Hubbard that Urquhart describes during the period in England, versus the one that people like Hana Eltringham report about when they went to sea immediately after that period – another crucial aspect of Hubbard regarding which Urquhart provides us no insight.
One other telling thing that just came to me, as Hubbard’s Communicator Urquhart would have been responsible for keeping up the deception that members could write to Ron and always have their letters personally considered and get a response from the dear leader himself, and he was one of those who signed (forged) Hubbard’s signature to prepared responses to their letters. That was one of the things I was looking into at the point that I think I remember corresponding with Urquhart, and the sham and the fact that people were trained to duplicate Hubbard’s signature was confirmed to me by Urquhart or one of the other people personally involved.
While trying to fact check the above, I also ran across the fact that Urquhart blithely claims credit for creating the RPF, and is no more apologetic or reflective about it than Adolph Eichmann was about transporting jews to concentration camps. Enough said. Well, okay, I think I now see why a psychopath like Hubbard would have groomed Urquhart as a useful idiot, loyal and willing to follow orders.
PeaceMaker: “First, see the part about Ken Urquhart and the RPF at the bottom, I just want to be sure that makes it into the summary header of this comment on an old topic…
You seem to be giving yourself away as being on some sort of campaign. (ahem)
At the bottom you wrote: “I also ran across the fact that Urquhart blithely claims credit for creating the RPF, and is no more apologetic or reflective about it than Adolph Eichmann was about transporting jews to concentration camps…”
One tactic of marketing is positioning – good for oneself, bad for the “opponent.” That aside, with regard to Ken and the RPF you’re leaving out the most significant data. Ken recently wrote the following on his new blog:
“…after 1973, I began to feel unable to follow LRH on the path he was taking. Even so, I remained on the post until 1978, when I had the pleasure of going to the Rehabilitation Project Force (“RPF”) at the new Scn HQ in Clearwater, Florida. In those days the RPF did a lot of good. I know that for a fact because I designed and set it up on the ship in order for it to do good. And it did me good when I went through it. Later, others changed it and thus achieved for it a gloriously bad reputation.” http://urqbones.com/2017/01/05/some-more-illustrious-career-information/
The fact that others changed the RPF from what Ken had designed was confirmed on another comment thread by Robin Scott, who was there: “The irony is that for me the whole package worked incredibly well, including the RPF, but sadly it was spoiled by idiots.” http://urqbones.com/2017/01/05/here-we-go-looking-at-failure-and-success-1/#comment-98
You also wrote: “you’re right that the quote about Atack is somewhat out of context…”
Uh…no. The meaning you gave to that quote wasn’t “somewhat” out of context – it was completely opposite of what was meant by it. This is an example of looking through a lens, or a filter, and having the intention of seeing what you’ve already made up your mind to, or of “proving” what you are campaigning for. Personally, I’ve gone past the stage of trying to prove anything about Scn or LRH – but neither am I going to ignore the good and exaggerate the bad. I like what Ken had to say in another blog post, about the path to personal freedom being one of becoming increasingly honest with oneself.
You added to the above: “…but [it] still gets to the issue of Urquhart admitting to not having really wanted to know the truth of what was going on when there were suspicious signs. What do you think it tells us about Urquhart and the reliability of his story that he says that Hubbard only got $80 per month salary in the late 60s…”
Admitting that he “for one wondered, but did not ask Who is selling what, how, to whom?” tells me he is more honest than most.
Not to make a big deal of it, but my understanding is that the original RPF was nothing like what it has been in more recent years. I believe I have read one or two positive accounts by people who did it back then.
I guess I’m trying to say your comparison of an RPF Ken might have originated, and Adolph Eichmann’s actions is more than a stretch. It strikes me a a totlally false comparison, more like Trumpian hyperbolic propaganda about the “horrible” state of the USA than than anything else. I think you lose whatever audience you may have gained, when you go to such extreme statements.
marildi and valkov, regarding the origins of the RPF and Urquhart, including Urquhart’s reliability as a supposed “middle of the road” source, I’d like to make a thorough response. But first I’d like to determine whether we seem to have some grounds for further discussion, and would ask you to briefly address the following question.
The RPF was preceded by and reportedly created to replace the use of the chain locker (and some other more obscure programs) which, as widely and I think quite reliably witnessed, included Hubbard consigning a small child to it for a week, left to cry and soil himself, and putting an older man there for a month. Do you agree that the preponderance of evidence is that the use of the chain locker was indeed inhuman and degrading and something that Hubbard ordered or at least oversaw, and that Urquhart as Hubbard’s communicator would have been aware of that or other cruelties? Or do you have some more favorable view that you would defend?
I want to note that my opinion was actually swayed by reading the links that marildi sent (including as I admitted a skim of the longer piece that I’d read before), and then doing some further research of my own – I determined that Urquhart, who I once saw as a more sympathetic figure (perhaps in part because I had contact with him), was actually more willfully blind, culpable and unapologetic than I had realized. I would have been glad to have been swayed the other way if I thought the evidence warranted it, and there are others of his peers who I now view more favorably as a result of being in communication with them to research the actual history of certain issues – and then verifying their accounts and perspectives. valkov, I’m aware of the dangers of running afoul of Godwin’s Law, but I made the specific and limited comparison to Eichmann’s frame of mind (not his actions) that I did for carefully considered reasons that I would be glad to explain (and, can you suggest any comparison to make of an unrepentant totalitarian functionary, even if you don’t agree with my characterization in Urquhart’s case, that is clear and powerful without risking being “hyperbolic”?).
Mike Rinder says
I think anyone who was on the Apollo for the formation of the RPF would find the benign description of it pretty (un)funny. It became the overnight terror of everyone on board that they would be sent to lower hold one to join the RPFers living in the dark down there being fed leftovers of the already seriously shitty food, not allowed to speak to anyone without being spoken to etc etc. It has not changed much in its essentials since it was created. The only thing different now is that it became virtually impossible to complete “the program” once FPRD was invented.
Mike, evidently Ken Urqhart does not agree with your assessment of the early RPF. Neither does Robin Scott. This leaves readers like me, who were not there and didn’t experience it, in the position of deciding that I may never really know the truth of it. Apparently for som eit was a good thing, and for others, a bad thing. That seems so characteristic of the whole LTH/scientology thing.
Mike and PeaceMaker, I was about to make a comment similar to Valkov’s, as I recall seeing comments that were quite positive about the original RPF. On a Google search, I found the following, excerpts from comments posted by people who are also considered reliable sources:
Karen Karen#1 |(De la Carriere) September 27, 2010 at 9:17 am | Reply
“It is interesting that in the main (with very few exceptions), those that lived in the same location as LRH whether on the Apollo, Creston Ranch like you for all those many years or any other location ~~those that actually spent time and interacted with him ~~ truly loved him…Barney mentioned how the LRH version of the RPF was almost like a Holiday Camp. Barney who posted just below, was on the Apollo and verifies this ~~~ penalty, punishment, extreme duress, extreme slave labor was NEVER the point of the Apollo RPF. The theory was REALLY studying up on the technology at 5 hours a day could educate them on the auditing side of it all and enhance and improve performance. If an RPFer stayed over 3 months in the RPF on the Apollo, I recall them being nudged and poked…
One thing about the Apollo. There was simply no FEAR, NO DREAD, No terror of a Madman running a meeting and punching his execs and ordering their next few years of life to be savagely changed such as shipped to Australia, RPF, failing Org etc. The Apollo was a high high ARC production machine with a sense of adventure, laughter, team activity, high spirits, FUN FUN FUN and LRH set the tone level.”
Barney Rubble | April 24, 2010 at 6:52 pm | Reply
“When the RPF was developed in 1975 on the Apollo, it was at the most a 2 month program. It was essentially like being sent to the decks with 5 hours of co-audit time each day. The program was very easy.
A lot of people back then considered it almost like a holiday, compared to the the stresses of post. Also the RPF probably had at the most 10 % of the crew on it, unlike recent years when it exploded into the hundred’s.” https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2010/04/24/miscavige-meltdown/#comment-21208
Sinar | August 9, 2010 at 6:41 pm | Reply
“The RPF is a program started during the Apollo days to rehabilitate SO members who were messing up in a matter of weeks or a few months to complete. It was not originated by LRH, though it ran under his reign. The program was ended at the Int base in the early 2000 and inmates sent elsewhere. There are sereral SO issues in terms of Flag Orders which describes the entrance qualifications for this program and justice actions, recourse, how it’s run in terms of organization, it’s end, getting 1/4 SO pay if at all, etc. Through David Miscavige’s alterations, the RPF is endless and takes years and years to complete.”
PeaceMaker: “Do you agree that the preponderance of evidence is that the use of the chain locker was indeed inhuman and degrading and something that Hubbard ordered or at least oversaw, and that Urquhart as Hubbard’s communicator would have been aware of that or other cruelties?”
Yes, I agree. But I also take into consideration Hubbard’s severe pain during the time period after his motorcycle accident – and the fact that that severe pain is well known to cause mental problems. Here are some quotes of Urquhart and others who were there, taken from Russell Miller’s book:
“’Before the motor-cycle accident he was a very nice, friendly person,’ said Jill Goodman [who was thirteen years old when she became a messenger]. ‘Afterwards, he was a complete pain in the ass. It was like having a sick, crotchety grandfather. You never knew what he was going to be like when you went in there.’”
“’He didn’t get out of that red velvet chair for three months,’ said Doreen Smith. ‘He’d sleep for about forty-five minutes at a time, then be awake for hours, screaming and shouting. It was impossible to get him comfortable.’”
Gerry Armstrong: “’His actions definitely became more bizarre after the motor-cycle accident. You could hear him throughout the ship screaming, shouting, ranting and raving day after day.”
Ken Urquhart: “After his motorcycle accident he sat in his room in great pain. Bellows were coming out and messengers were the only ones allowed in. The messengers had to wash and feed him. This was in ’73, early in the year. He was bellowing with pain and frustration…”
The RPF ties in with this. In the Russell Miller interview quoted above, Ken goes on to say why and how the RPF was formed:
“The RPF [Rehabilitation Project Force] came into existence while he was in his cabin after the accident. A guy called Gary Watson, who was the port captain, sent in some kind of programme of action to the Commodore and the Commodore set up a unit to take care of rebellious people or those not fitting in. I set up the RPF but it became very much different from what I envisaged – which was a place where you could be removed from the stress and strains of bureaucracy, with some physical work every day to take their attention off themselves and in the other half of day they could audit each other on problems they had. After the accident people were asking themselves why he was making such a fuss. Indeed, why was he in pain? The justification was again he was doing such an important job.”
The above shows that Urquhart did not try to deny or lessen Hubbard’s misdeeds, or accept the excuses (“justification”) that people gave for them. At the same time, however, he gives Hubbard extremely high praise for his positive contributions. This is the reason I say he takes the “middle ground” – meaning that he goes to neither extreme, either that Hubbard could do no wrong or that he was nothing but evil.
Mike, many thanks for chipping in about the RPF with the reality-check of your personal experience and knowledge. I had a small glimmer of hope that you might find time to respond.
marildi and iamvalkov, can we now accept that the preponderance of evidence is that RPF and the use of the chain locker that preceded it were abusive and inhumane, and that the few reports to the contrary are outliers? (perhaps explained by denial, particularly by the abused who later became perpetrators themselves, or else something like Stockholm syndrome)
For the sake of discussion I am willing to assume, and actually think it not unlikely, that Urquhart may have thought in his own mind when he created the RPF that it actually could be something positive. How exactly we should regard that and some other points when evaluating his reliability as an observer and source, would be part of what we might discuss further.
p.s. Since the issue is how the RPF started out, I thought I would see what I could find about the earliest RPFs. The only testimony I could locate is actually about the very first one, from Monica Pignotti: “Hubbard claimed that the RPF was an act of benevolence on his part to “rehabilitate” psychotic criminals. Actually, in my opinion and experience, the RPF was a prison camp.
On January 10, 1974, an ethics order was issued assigning the first group of people to the RPF. My name was on that list, I believe, because I had spoken my mind one too many times and was considered a troublemaker. ” (Affidavit, September 26, 1989)
PeaceMaker: Mike, many thanks for chipping in about the RPF with the reality-check of your personal experience and knowledge. I had a small glimmer of hope that you might find time to respond.
I have a glimmer of hope that Mike will chip in sometime when he sees something negative being stated about Hubbard or Scn that he knows is false or over the top. 🙂
As for further discussion – sorry, I’m not as much into as you are.
PeaceMaker, I have stated my (probably) last opinion on the subject to Mike. You seem to be trying to position the early RPF as an atrocity like the “chain locker” incidents. I do reject that becaus ethere is too much contrary data. Mike’s opinion is offset or contradicted by Urq’s and Robin Scott’s, for 2 examples. Since I have no way of reconciling contradictory testimonies, I am left only with the conclusion that I don not know and will likely never know. I was not there and did not ever experience an RPF, early or late.
In general, I find marildi’s posts most credible and responsive to the issues being addressed.
It is a lot like the brouhaha about an “Introspection Rundown”. There are people who liked it and feel they benefitted by it, and others decry it as a terrible hack job. I tend to believe Lisa McPherson received a hack job as originated by Miscavige. I don’t think what she received was an actual “introspection rundown”, but a DM atrocity.
I think it is much like all the controversies surrounding Scientology. There are opposite opinions about much of it, expressed by people who were there.. If you choose sides, well, that is what you are doing – choosing sides. As Byron Katie said, “It is not the problem that causses our suffering: it’s our thinking about the problem.”
For up-to-date information about TIR, and Metapsychology as well, anyone can use Google for a lot of links. There’s plenty of information about their training and certifications line-ups and all that. Originally, TIR was pretty much straight Dianetics and I believe it is basically still that. But practioners have learned a lot in 40 years or so, and their experience has been incorporated, where it has been found valid.
Harpoona Frittata says
Your position on the value and efficacy of Elron’s supposedly infallible tech vs. that of Joe represents opposite ends of a continuum of opinion. On a personal and subjective level, you can both be right in your divergent opinions because the evaluative basis being used by each of you is purely anecdotal and subjective.
He got wins; you did not. Were your lack of results due to the out-tech ways that services were rendered to you (or perhaps due to your own PTSness or out ethics at the time) or were his just the result of the placebo effect and the therapeutic value of an engaged and compassionate dyadic relationship? It’s impossible to sort out solely from the the anecdotal and subjective evaluation of different individuals.
This exactly where science, and its quite sophisticated methods of objective empirical research, have come onto the scene to help sort out what no individual with his own subjective criteria and unique experiences could ever hope to.
Elron put Dn and $cn on a “beyond science” footing early on and, in a sense, we’re still waiting for a full and detailed scientific study of its claims. But since Elron himself kept changing around the claims made for his counseling techniques and practices, the question of exactly what $cn’s claims actually are at this point in time is a good one. And here, the cult’s own required contract explicitly states that NO promises or claims about the state or condition that one can attain through auditing are being made. So, in the final analysis, if $cn is no longer making any claims for the efficacy of its practices, then there’s really nothing but incredibly vague and ultimately meaningless promotional slogans (like, becoming “Cause over life” as the ability gained on completion of OaTy 8) to be evaluated on an objective basis to begin with!
Amazingly, $cn’s non-claims are exactly in line with the non-results that many who’ve undergone these auditing procedures have experienced! As a result, just as it is everywhere else in life where cash is exchanged for services, the consumer needs to read the contract’s fine print to learn what is REALLY being promised. Put in that simple and easy to understand framework, why would anyone pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for counseling services that the cherch is making no claims for regarding their efficacy!?
Mike Wynski says
Harpoona, you are incorrect. I don’t have a subjective belief about scamology. Anymore than I have a subjective belief that the sun will be spotted in the Eastern sky tomorrow or that the moon will not crash to Earth tonight.
Are you saying that you don’t necessarily believe the sun will rise in the Eastern sky tomorrow? Or that the moon might indeed crash into the Earth tonight? YOu don’t believe these things, you’ll just wait and see?
Of course the Sun is stationary, the Earth revolves around the Sun. Note, M. Wynski did say ‘spotted in’ the Eastern sky though, not ‘will rise’. Semantics.
I suppose. To al appearances the Earth is flat, when one is standing on the ground. I wondered, though, if he meant he did not take it for granted that the sun would rise tomorrow, or that an asterpoid would not crash into the Earth while we slept.
hmmm… I’m not sure what he meant. I’m pretty sure that the earth is round (or round-ish) though – here is a photo:
and pretty sure that the earth goes around the sun, not the sun goes around earth… this is from Wikipedia: “Earth’s orbit is the path through which the Earth travels around the Sun. ”
The Church of Scientology is based on and promotes many lies. Being declared an SP “based on the church’s [LRH’s] claim that Scientology is compatible with all religions universally} should get one excommunicated from whatever other religion one practices when one is declared. So then, why doesn’t the Catholic church practice this as well when a declared SP is in their congregation? 🙂
Because The Catechism of the Catholic church doesn’t include SP tech.
Bill Straass says
Sir, I agree 100% with what you are saying.
Jens TINGLEFF says
As someone who got called a “copyright terrorist” by the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology, I cannot argue with making everything available.
But I would like to add, even as a non-ex-victim, that some form of truth and reconciliation committee seems to be called for. The individuals who were victimised, and the individuals being coerced by the Co$ into doing the victimising, cannot be kept out of the future of the Co$.
So, to me, the “tech” – other than a part of an answer to the question “how could they DO that?” – is less important. But different strokes for different folks…
In short, I agree with Terra, this boat has sunk itself.
Great comment, Jens.
Kay M Rowe says
All the “Church” assets should be liquidated and distributed to those requesting refunds, damages, etc. Settling in a Class Action law suit perhaps a solution. As for the technology itself, do exactly what Mike Rinder stated.
Ranee Simpson says
After resding this article, I wonder how many ex-scientologist would return to scientology if and when David Miscaviage is no longer there?
Mike Rinder says
VERY few, if any
Joe Pendleton says
What Mike Rinder said.
Agreed. The eye is blackened so badly that even for those who have gone who may still believe in the tech, the trust factor is nonexistent.
Sarita Shoemaker says
I’ll never return and I feel very certain NO ONE I know will ever join (or return).
On the flip side, someone better start figuring out a Scientology APP to download. There’s money in those virtual hills! The Pokémon app reference flicked a lightbulb on.
Excellent Essay today. Thank you both. 🙂
I always lean in to read Terra’s thoughts. Will we ever get to know who this is? I hope but love the mystery too.
Mike Wynski says
Sarita Pita, if you cannot see the stars, move East. Florida is cheap, very visible stars, good economy and nice people. I pulled the rip cord on CA long ago. 😉
hey! I live in CA. 🙁 We have nice people here too. and stars. lots of ’em.
Mike, I like your plan, thanks. Every staff member who does absolute bs busy-work to be auditor if they so choose. And the materials free on the internet. Some basic organization should be there though. Some Admin (true admin not suppressive should be there and that is the make break point. Admin has been used to suppress or amass money when Tech didn’t work and that was not corrected).
I didn’t read Terra Cognita’s full post. I will. But KSW is not something to suppress. It’s to protect. Anyway, I will read it through.
There is a very fine line between protection and suppression. Yes, there’s a case to be made for something like KSW. Look at what happened to Islam when their “Source” died. We’re seeing the Sunni/Shia rift playing out with deadly consequences 1400 years later. But the net effect of KSW, whether you regard it as protection or suppression, is that Scientology has no theologian class, no one inside the religion who can look at doctrine and dogma and interpret what Hubbard’s intent was. Interpretation is brutally suppressed in Scientology. So is experimentation to improve the results of rundowns and to develop new ones that might be required in a world that has changed in the thirty years since Hubbard died.
You’ve said it yourself, Theo: viability of the belief system has to be tested and clarified to see what works and what corresponds to reality. KSW puts a brick on that. That’s the tragedy of Scientology. It was someone from the Admin side who took over after Hubbard’s death. If David Mayo hadn’t been declared, or if Ray Mithoff had been the Chosen One, maybe Scientology would have adopted a policy regarding the Tech that wouldn’t have frozen the belief system in amber. Instead, the church still has paper files that never get updated and still uses telex systems, and there’s no one inside working on the belief systems to update and improve them and keep them relevant.
Imagine a Christian church where St. Augustine and St. Thomas Aquinas were declared squirrel because what they wrote didn’t perfectly line up to absolute orthodoxy. That’s Scientology in a nutshell.
Harpoona Frittata says
There’s a simple test that any absolutist, supposedly infallible doctrine or belief system can be put to in order to evaluate its truth claims: If the system’s creator is wrong in any instance or form, then he is not infallible and the system’s absolute truth claim is invalidated. It’s a very high bar of proof to use, but it logically follows in a direct manner from the system’s truth claims themselves.
As a consequence, if any part of it is proved to be incorrect, then every other part of it is open to be questioned. Since many of Elron’s supposedly infallible doctrines, beliefs and actions have been proved false or ineffective and even dangerous (recall the dangerous “Barley Baby formula” recipe that Elron came up with), then the whole thing can no longer stand on the false claim of the creator’s supposed God-like infallibility.
Obviously, the alternative that many still-in $cilons have chosen instead is to disregard the objective proof that Elron was not infallible and, somehow, remain blind and stupid to the plainly evident signs that he was wrong in many instances. Being a duped fool just seems like way too high a price to pay for whatever sense of certainty that being a cult member might provide, imo.
Hi, Mike. I’ve never had any relationship with Scientology in the past, but have discovered your and Leah’s show and have found it to be fascinating, horrifying, and encouraging. You are doing a great thing by shining such a bright light on the injustices that have been inflicted on so many.
One question that I have that I don’t think I’ve really seen addressed (forgive me if I missed it) is this: In your opinion, do you think David Miscavige believes he is doing right and is acting with the best intentions in the spirit of his religion, or do you think he is intentionally orchestrating the machinations of the organization in a deliberate way, strictly for his own personal gain? In other words, is he just as brainwashed as everyone else, or does he know what he’s doing?
Thanks in advance, and keep it up!
I understand Miscavige hasn’t received auditing for years so he’s probably one of the least “brainwashed” people in Scientology. He wasn’t born in, so if you compare him to those who were and who still managed to find that innate humanity within themselves to say “this is wrong”, and escape or leave, then I have to say he is well aware of what he is doing.
i-Betty, I have been trying to come up with some reasonable speculation or model about what is going on with Miscavige internally, based on as much evidence as can be seen. I have come across credible accounts that he talks about “body thetans” and treats them as real, suggesting that he does believe in at least some of the “upper level” or “OT” material. He also apparently has referred to the belief in the reincarnation and return of Hubbard to persuade (or control) others around him who believe in it, and such a belief would explain some things like the apparent build-it-and-they-will-come approach to all CoS’ huge new (largely empty) buildings.
I think there is reason to suspect that Miscavige may do some self-auditing, as Hubbard did. It’s also possible that he has only trusted someone very close to him like his wife Shelly to audit him. He also may think that he is too much of a “big being” to be audited by anyone else, or maybe even to be audited at all.
Miscavige did seem to be a “true believer” when he started out in his teens, which is pretty young, but it seems much harder to gauge where he is now. I also think it’s possible that he’s concluded that it’s all just a “game” to be played for power and for control (including of money) and that Hubbard created it as that.
I would be very interested to hear Mike’s take on any of this.
Harpoona Frittata says
Since lil davey and Pat Broecker devised the “shore story” concerning the circumstances of Elron’s death that turned him into an OaTy super being who’d outgrown this very limited physical plane and knew for certain that they’d manufactured a completely false myth, at least from that point forward he could no longer be a true believer in Elron as some sort of ascended master or in the awesome power of the advanced OaTy levels in conferring suppa powerz.
He’s been knowingly running the cult as money-making scam since then. And the fact that he doesn’t partake of auditing is completely consistent with an understanding that it doesn’t work, or at least, that the supposedly most advanced levels of it don’t.
Harpoona, I think it’s hard to judge what “true believers” think, including what rationalizations they may create for themselves. Miscavige was certainly a believer to begin with, and there are reports that at least early on he revered Hubbard. Hubbard’s death could be rationalized as his succumbing to the physical toll taken by years of sacrificing himself for “research,” and the fault of “SPs” surrounding him (Mayo, the Brokers, et al).
A plausible case could certainly be made that Miscavige ceased being a believer and became a cynical scammer, but I’d like to see a coherent theory about how and when that came about (including what the rest of his inner circle does or does not believe). As I mentioned in another comment, there are reports that he does actually believe in some aspects of the “upper levels” of ScientoIogy such as “body Thetans” (BTs), and that he at least cites the belief in Hubbard’s reincarnation to influence others around him who are still true believers. I suspect that he may have concluded that Hubbard was really running Scientology as a game of power and control (including wealth) – but that’s not exclusive of the possibility that he would believe that some of Hubbard’s pronouncements were still correct.
L Yash says
As far as your statement: “It’s also possible that he has only trusted someone very close to him like his wife Shelly to audit him”….WELLLLLL….now THAT might answer the question as to what happened to her…..she KNEW too much.
I have a feeling, as a “never in”….that if he were to be audited….if he held “the cans” they’d probably melt and the E Machine would blow up once he was asked about “his crimes”…..
Thank you to everyone who has been so very nice to all of us “never ins”…this information provided from everyone has been mind blowing, heart wrenching, and has given so much insight into the organization itself. Only GOOD things can come out of Lean and Mike, and their guests life within the confines of the “church”…..I wish you all well!
jfm3, Miscavige’s behavior is better explained by Antisocial Personality Disorder than by any beliefs:
“Antisocial personality disorder, sometimes called sociopathy, is a mental condition in which a person consistently shows no regard for right and wrong and ignores the rights and feelings of others. People with antisocial personality disorder tend to antagonize, manipulate or treat others harshly or with callous indifference. They show no guilt or remorse for their behavior.”
Above from http://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/antisocial-personality-disorder/home/ovc-20198975
Very good point. I think that might be the only safe and effective handling for Scientology in a free society.
I would add one more thing, though: Make sure all Scientology auditors are licensed like every other hypnotherapist must be.
If you study hypnotherapy without any kind of L Ron Hubbard in it, you’ll find that Dianetics and Scientology auditing are simply highly developed forms of it. And because of the dangers that unscrupulous or ill-informed hypnotherapists can create on the public they are always licensed by the state.
This allows Scientologists to be Scientologists, but answerable to licensing boards and other civil authorities should they abuse people or fuck them up with Introspection and Truth Rundowns, etc.
Mike Wynski says
Alanzo, you don’t understand the US Constitution. Someone delivering a service stated to make the spirit (thetan) more able is NOT going to fall under ANY US licensing boards. It is completely irrelevant that one doesn’t belong to an organized “church”.
Yes! Licensed. Accountability. If they’re going to be charging to mess with my brain, they need to have accountability for doing so, just like all other mental health professionals, not hide behind the veil of religious protection.
Old Surfer Dude says
I would never mess with your brain, Valerie! I might tickle your brain, but, never would I mess with it…
Good People says
Really liked the editor’s note and am all for it. I think Scientology involves hypnosis and trance states and should possibly involve a disclaimer. However I don’t think an auditor should need to be licensed as a hypnotherapist. My reasons are: 1. The phenomena of hypnotism has been around probably as long as people have and is a natural part of human life. 2. Many aspects of life involve hypnotic/trance states and are not required to be regulated. 3. Hypnotism is not necessarily dangerous as long as one knows he is being hypnotized.
Ron said Scientology isn’t hypnosis and demonized hypnosis(don’t look at it!), both not necessarily true. We’d probably all be very wise to learn about hypnosis, as prevalent and misunderstood as it is. But there are larger players than Scientology that would prefer that doesn’t happen.
Alanzo, I think you’re right that professional auditors should have the same licensing requirements as therapists. To begin with, a change-minded CoS (official Scientology) could simply agree to make that their policy, regardless of legal requirements. And there’s also a good argument to be made that just as the tax emption for paid auditing services is probably not actually lawful (the Supreme Court seemed to agree in one case, and the IRS agreement might well eventually be overturned if challenged), that paid auditors could be legally required to subject to licensing if the issue was pressed. I am surprised that I have not heard of this being an issue with independent auditors, and I suspect that if there were upheavals in the CoS and a lot more auditors working independently that it would come to a head.