As I did after each program in the first season, I am putting this here as a place for people to make comments about the show that has just aired.
The outpouring of support has been amazing already, just as it was in Season 1. As always, I am interested in your views – including criticisms and things you think might be better explained or covered.
For new readers here I thought you might find it instructive to be directed to some earlier postings that may help explain some things. You may have seen some of the over-the-top statements about Leah, me or anyone who has a differing opinion of scientology’s infallibility and dares voice it. It is perhaps the hardest thing for someone new to this subject to grasp. If you operate on the “where there’s smoke there must be fire” principle you can easily wonder whether there might be some truth to the smears they spread. It is a difficult concept to accept that people will simply LIE, even give false sworn testimony under penalty of perjury, because they believe they are protecting “man’s only hope for salvation.”
To begin to understand the mindset scientologists have about those who criticize any part of it, read this article:
Dealing with Critics of Scientology — The L. Ron Hubbard Playbook
And then read this one:
And here is a fairly short explanation of how disconnection is used in scientology (and how they try to spin the practice):
Disconnection: the PR and the Truth
An overview of the efforts by scientology to smear Leah Remini:
Scientology Dead Agents* Itself
And finally this is a post about the lies they tell about their “expansion”:
Scientology “expansion” debunked
What You Can Do
Call your Congressman and Senator to do something about the ongoing abuses. Initiate a Congressional Hearing. Ask them to demand the FBI or IRS look into things with the church. Write to the IRS. Support and comment on media articles and blogs that cover the abuses (like Tony Ortega at the Underground Bunker) and express your support to A&E for stepping up and taking on scientology.
Watch Leah Remini: Scientology The Aftermath every week and tell your friends to do so.
Don’t ever think you have no voice or there is nothing you can do. There is plenty.
Your support of Leah and everyone else involved is invaluable and appreciated. Please don’t stop. Knowing there are a lot of people out there on our side is comforting and gives strength.
I read in today’s Newsday, that Leah has been brought onto “Kevin can wait” as a full time character, congrats Leah. They also made hints at a season 3 of “Aftermath”, That would be amazing. Mike, I ‘m sure you can’t comment on that, can you? Anyway, good luck to the two of you with season 2 and to Leah with her new endeavor with Kevin James again.
Rob
Interesting………….. I stopped watching Kevin Can Wait, but with Leah on board I’ll check it out again……….always liked the 2 of them together on King of Queens. 🙂
🙂
I am so glad there is a Season 2! Loved the latest episode! And it was very timely because it reminded me to pray for the members of the production, both in front of and behind the camera. Blessings on you. May your efforts bring hope and peace to those trapped and oppressed. May you also find rest in the midst of the angst.
The moments I love best are the ones where the abuser asks for forgiveness and is forgiven. Beautiful!
I am suspectous of people who overly emote when they apologize. It doesn’t make them more sorry or help their victims. Mike has apologized and it needs to be accepted at face value. The only question that I have for Mike and a few others is, “Would you have stayed as long if you were not in a position of power or high-ranking?
This show is powerful because Leah and Mike are both on the show. It has more credibility and offers greater insight into all things Scientology. The show would not hold my interest if Leah or Mike hosted the show each week on their own. The guest speakers and courageous former members who speak out on each episode makes this program much see TV. I am grateful that Leah, Mike, and the others have taken such a risk. Evil prevails when good people do nothing.
A couple of days late on the feedback, but I do want to chime in:
This was a lightning bolt of a return after the season hiatus. It was effective in very many ways, but I want to single out the outstanding use of policy citations spelled out onscreen, in conjunction with the stories/examples of that behavior being carried out. Every religion has skeletons in the closet, so some who aren’t so knowledgeable may question why Scn is being “singled out.”
The answer is that you have bad people in any religion, and even coverups in every religion, but only Scientology has detailed, written, inalterable SCRIPTURES mandating that people be persecuted and destroyed, and spelling out how to do it in lurid detail. It kept being stated again and again ‘remember, this is policy” and that was extremely effective. It will greatly increase the comprehension of never-ins.
But what else is good is that any UTRs watching will have to face the same truth: that fair game is not an aberration but is standard tech, that it has always been that way, and that it came from LRH himself. This show explains the truth to outsiders, and forces insiders to confront it. VWD indeed.
Just this peek into Season 2 is going to cost DM 3 bottles of Bushmills & a bottle of Tums.
Eh-eh, the impression I have, from reading lots of books written by ex scient.. is that the person standing closest to McSavage for the shit beat and kicked out of him when things didnt go his way. McSavage’s dad attested to that on his book, and it was mentioned repeatedly in Going Clear.
So. If you’re gonna get beat up for not “making it work” (LRH’s scriture- attack/harass/stalk/etc. policies), with 3 generations of family still in “good standing”? What would you do?
So many typos!! Sorry…
Watched it three times last night and once the night before that because all guests had something significant to say about their experiences with scientology and scientologists as journalists, attorney, social scientist and former guardian office volunteer, and I wanted to take it all in. Brilliant way to prepare everyone for what’s coming in season 2, lays the ground work so we can understand more about the difficulties people face when they speak about their experiences within scientology.
Leah Remini shows Hollywood how to really do a reality tv show that is really, really REAL LIFE! GO GIRL!!! Leah Remini is a REAL WONDER WOMAN! We need more Leahs.
Wouldn’t be effective without Mike Rinder there to keep us on track regarding scientology’s real objectives when dealing with critics and to point to the texts where the actual policies are laid out. For example when Mark Ebner said “you don’t mess with people’s livelihood!” and Mike Rinder said, “yes, that’s exactly what you do and here’s the text of the scientology policy that says so.” (these quotes are paraphrases.) Priceless information, especially for law enforcement, judges, etc. (that goes back to what the attorney had to say about explaining to the court to set aside the religious aspect and to imagine if this was the mafia and the court wasn’t allowed to view their policies….)
Good Show! Thank you!
Mike;
Here is my concern on the show and it seems to insinuate (in this show) that this is addressed some time in the 2nd season and Leah put you on the spot a couple of times about this too. You (and Marty and David and others) were the worst of the worst or at least the top of the class on suppressing individuals who dared to speak out about the abuses and abusive policies of the big S, yet your demeanor on the shows is that of a person doing TR O bullbait. (i.e. little or no reaction to the destruction of those individuals or an uncomfortable laugh here and there about being one of the primary people who harassed and attempted to destroy people) It is nice to say I am sorry, which you have done a many times but you really hurt people deeply and intentionally for many many years, so I am hoping to see a more Mea Culpa from you specifically. It is all fine and dandy to say that policy was being followed and that you were only being a lemming, but you had to know when you were doing those awful things to people and creating lies about them, following them and harassing/3rd partying them that this was deep down wrong and evil. I do applaud you for finally having the cog and finally walking away from the Big S and through what you are doing through this show and your blog though. The show in itself will not make up the damage you have done but it is a great starting point! (**but if the show is successful in having the tax exempt status revoked then I would then say you have made up the damage done)
All that said, you are putting yourself in harms way to make up the damage you have done. Well done on keeping at it! I would just like to see some genuine emotion from you about the things you specifically have done! That is my only concern and I hope you can or have addressed it.
Eh=eh, what has been your role in scamology? Specifics please.
I was on staff at the LAO in the mid to late 70’s and left as the RTC was taking over.. I am a clear and was the DED for Production and later a flag trained word clearer at the LA Org. I married an SO member (Spike, who also posts here at times) who is an OT-7 and who left the SO. I had two kids who were in the Cadet org at the same time Spike’s kid was and they \were horribly treated and ignored which is why we did not continue in the SO. I had first hand dealings with the Guardians Office at the time and was a friend of Rachael Denks who was also a staff member at LA Org. I had goldenrod issued in my name for attending a get together in Toronto in which David Mayo was the speaker after the left! I believe the majority of the tech and have used it in my life with great success.
And you Wynksi?
Sorry about the spelling issues on my post. My wife and I both left the Big S in good standing! I finished my contract at LAO and she routed out of the SO and we later moved to Canada (therefore my moniker of eh=eh). My first wife had joined the SO and that is why my kids ended up in the Cadet Org at least until I repeatedly found them unattended and covered in shit! The Cadet Org was a nightmare
Eh=eh, I have for many a year tried to understand why someone would smoke, or drink or eat unhealthy, Then I heard about people who commit suicide and we condemn them for being “cowards.” But what we dont do is put ourselves into the shoes of someone who lived that life. What was in their heads. Its easy to sit outside of their minds and play armchair psychologist. I cant begin to try to understand how long the scars and healing it will take for these people to get over what the “church” has programmed into them. For many of them, this is what they grew up with, all they know. So expecting Mike to give a Mea Culpa all the time, is perhaps a step we have to wait for. But if you recall the last show, they mentioned the two girls who had to go buy a dictionary as the didnt know how to communicate other than what the Church taught them. Again- we have to be understanding to something we never lived. I give Mike and Lea MUCH Credit .
I kind of expected people to misunderstand my post. Mike had asked for a critique of his show, and what we might think would make it better, so I added my honest comments on what I thought would help the show out as I am 100% behind Mike and Leah and what they are doing. My comments were not a critique of Mike’s case, though I somewhat expected some people to see it that way!
ITA…….if you look closely, even thru the tv screen, you can see the pain in Mike’s eyes…..on a lighter note. Last night I rewatched the S2 intro (I always glean more the 2nd time around). There was a portion of one of dm’s ‘psuedo passionate’ speeches (I don’t think he believes one word that comes out of his own mouth)…..anyway, whenever I hear him ‘preach’, I always wrack my brain…..’Who does he remind me of??’…..and last night it hit me………….Sylvester the Cat of cartoon fame……………Sssssthufferin’ sssssthuccotash !!!! 😀
I haven’t cried in 30 years either; but It is not because I have not felt grief; it is because I do not expect any sympathy from people anymore. And it is a loss on my part; I wish to get that handled with auditing.or whatever. This may or may not make me look cold; but is is probably more just lifeless. So, if Mike looks like he is just doing TR0, I understand.
Dead Men, you may not expect sympathy but you are getting it. I’m a never in so I can’t begin to imagine what you were subjected to that caused the depth of pain and anguish that comes through your words. If I could write something that could make it all right in your heart I would, You deserve peace in your life not torment.
The only advice I would dare to offer is don’t stop telling your story. Every time you speak out and tell your truth you reclaim more of the good that was taken from you.
Thank you for finding the courage to put your pain into words.
Thank you JHA. Yes, you are right. I will continue speaking out until the abuses stop.
It supplies a purpose to my life that was lacking for some time. I look forward to any opportunity to talk about it.
Let me give you a little insight, sir , from someone who was a smoker, was suicidal and who purposefully snorted blue asbestos on the Freewinds.
It is like this: You know that you will never be allowed to see your family again; even though you have done everything they have asked of you and are not currently in ethics trouble; you know that the demands will increase until you break; then you will be shot. You have seen it again and again, good hardworking staff worked almost to death; their only out being death from other causes or the willingness to tell them that they want to leave thereby setting themselves up to eat shit for 6 months to several years before they are allowed to leave.
Now, I am not saying that my method was better or more ethical; dying is not much of a living. I think that maybe where I went wrong is that my Code of Honor was out. I was trying to be approved of or liked. And I was approved of; I challenge anyone who has left the SO to have a more lauditory Comm Ev. You would have thought that I had singlehandedly cleared the planet. The Church loves it’s martyrs (but only as long as they are certain that they are.dead).All I can say is that I have atoned for that by speaking up and being declared SP.
Now I have not seen the issue, and those fucks will probably never show it to me; mainly as I no longer have any need for a Death Wish. I do not need to see it; I know that it is a pack of lies; I saw other’s when I was still in and I can attest that they lie their ass off when it suits them. Their only hope is what they tried before; the hope that I will die before I get the chance to say anything more.
It is too late for that; my survival or death will not change the fate of DM or his henchmen, Mr Rinder, Leah and others have sealed their doom
And although I would like to live long enough to see the final victory; while in the SO I did not expect to see the planet cleared, but that was OK.
The purpose of the show isn’t to put Mike on trial, and I don’t think Leah’s chiding of him in this area is appropriate either. It just puts him in an unnatural position where he will be judged according to how well he responds in front of millions of people!
Mike’s actions speak louder than any words, and it seems to me he has already effected a bigger blow to insidious church operations than anybody or anything has so far done, including the “Going Clear” book and documentary, I can’t think of a better “amends project” than what he’s doing.
What Marildi said!
We are all waking up from this sick Hubbard induced hypno dream. As far as I’m concerned Mike is working it out.
His redemption is total in my books.
Remember, Mike was very very young when these thoughts and behaviors were implanted.
Just keep being Mike.
From my perspective, the fact that Mike shows up on national ( international ? ) television and talks at length about the acts he was required to carry out as a McSavage henchman, is a mark of a changed man. I too have felt hostility towards Mike when videos from his CoS days are shown. He can apologize to one thousand people a thousand different ways but it will never be enough for some. Putting himself on the line as he is doing & by taking action will help some to heal. You might say, it is a beautiful way to make amends.
I really enjoyed this show and I look forward to the second season. I am a “never in” but, having grown up in the Baptist mindset, I see a lot of similarities in the way all religions indoctrinate. It must be difficult to face up to the terrible things you did to people when you were in the Church, but I consider it very brave for you to appear with the same people you damaged.
The only thing that distracted from the new show is the “special effects” they are using to make Leah’s face glow to hide signs of aging. I wish she would tell them to cut that out. Yes, it’s picky, but distracting. 🙂 Onward to Season 2, and I hope some type of legal action begins to take the Church down.
I usually don’t comment because I’m a “never in” but I have been reading Tony Ortega’s blog, yours and Marty Rathbuns. I have been reading these blogs now for about 3 or 4 years…I think! Marty seems to have gone off the rails for want of a better explanation. Seems he is miffed over some comments in Tony’s blog.
I watched last seasons shows and look forward to this years show. Hopefully we are going to see the beginnings of some legal action taken by people who have been harmed by the policies of Scientology.
My only suggestion is to do a full show on those that are tailing you as you do your show. I’m sure there are many times when you are tailed, film those instances and put them together as a full show, could be real interesting. I think this would say volumes about how Scientology treats anyone who wants to say the truth about them. I know you did it last year, and I know it takes up some time that could be devoted to telling the stories, but it really proves what people are saying, that they are harassed by Scientology.
The show was great; I have no suggestions to make it better. You and Leah (and guests) are really kicking ass.
I am at my brother’s house and I was watching it downstairs when he came in angry. (He had been watching it upstairs)
He said to me “Get off your ass and get a lawyer and sue those fucks” and that my story was more horrendous than what he was watching on the show. While I don’t necessarily disagree with him, each person’s pain is more real to them than to other’s and there comes a point where it seems that nothing could possibly be worse than what happened to you personally.
What happened to me could easily have been worse.
I could be dead. There were plenty of reasons that I should be dead. 6 doctors and one Captain Freewinds told my wife that I was going.to die. My survival has been a major make-wrong for a few people. I have suppressed these people. Maybe that is why I was declared, I have never seen any issue; maybe it is simply that I am still alive. (I will continue this comment)
I don’t know exactly why I am still alive; partly effort by other’s and myself and partly the failure of a few in the Church to finish the cycle of action after driving it home for months and partly just dumb luck.
If I had done my A-E I would have had to atone for my crime of surviving and there was no real reason to do that. My death would not have assisted in the clearing of the planet. It just would have justified the actions of some others.
Now I do not really believe in the idea that I was permitted to survive so as to serve a higher purpose. But, if I was, like my brother said, I had better get off my ass and do it.
I’m glad you are still alive and surviving. Blessings on you and yours. May you find healing and peace.
Thank you Mr. Rinder for being a true HERO.
This show, like all the others, does such a great job at presenting the truth in a way that is easily understood by non-Scientologists. It destroys any remaining credibility of this so-called church.
The show cherry picks the worst of the worst. If I were interviewed I would say I gained some worthwhile ideas of how the mind works along with some other philosophical viewpoints. It was a framework for reference, no damage incurred other than carrying forward some false notions which might have happened with any other philosophical subject I might have engaged in.
My younger brother, a never-in, watched Going Clear, read Leah’s book and has been following the Aftermath. I suppose I should call him and explain that I never knew about the fair gaming and never participated in it, and never gave any credence to disembodied beings affecting my thoughts and actions. Regarding overpopulation causing planets and civilizations to die, look around.
Your younger brother is that involved in cult criticism and has never talked to you about your involvement in Scientology before now?
I just used him as an example. We’ve discussed that scn on tv and in the movies is one sided and not everyone was a fool for participating. Some people might want or need to explain that to others if their previous scn participation is “discovered.”
Artoo45 – P.S. Look just below and with all good intentions Sasha is offering sympathy to past scn-ists.
Hi Richard,
I think you might be missing one vital point – the fact that there is anything to cherry pick from at all is the issue. Just one abuse instigated by the church is one too many.
Hummin’ – I entered and exited scn long before the internet. Knowing what I know now I wouldn’t have bothered. I would have joined a different cult. (joke)
Richard,
The problem is the ‘worst of the worst’ numbers in the thousands. THOUSANDS of people have been negatively impacted by this orgnazation.
‘Worst of the worst’ of what exactly?
Families destroyed?
People bankrupted?
Crimes committed?
People harassed?
People killed?
Slave labor?
Child labor?
It’s kind of like saying ‘those WW II documentaries just feature the worst of the worst of the Germans/Japanese. No one talks about how organized/hardworking they were….’
I’m glad you were able to get out relatively unscathed. But there are many others who were not.
I think you are lumping the entire critic community into one group. Not everyone believes people who were involved in Scientology were fools for doing so.
Many people believe good people got involved because they wanted to make a difference on the world. They just got sidetracked along the way.
Chee – Thank you for your respectful reply to my comment. I completely agree that the concept of “Live and let live” or more simply “tolerance” is difficult or impossible to follow when it comes to scn or most scn-ists. Some people lump all Scientologists into one group.
As an Australian citizen who plods along in her non Scientology life I watched this special and the past season and came away with two thoughts. So many lives have been destroyed in the name of supposedly doing something better and I hope that any former Scientology member that watches this show feels so lucky to have gotten out. Secondly I have to say thank you for producing this honest and at times confronting show, if it stops just one person from becoming a future member then it has been worth it. Surely membership applications have to be struggling and now only the desperately mentally”challenged” people are the ones who are sadly still looking to join. I don’t think you were bad people ,I think you were all in a bad situation guided by bad people.
“So many lives have been destroyed . . . ” I would suggest that few lives have been “destroyed” by participation in scn. That’s assigning too much power to a cult. Most people who ever participated just left. Anyone is free to determine their own idea of what percentage of lives were destroyed.
Richard, I think the problem is when people are in with their families. It is not so simple to just leave. From there, for how long do you tolerate the cr@p that comes down?
After watching Season 1, my husband and I say that we were ‘saved by the kids’. Having very young kids back in the 70’s, after he and I did different parts of the Bridge and had our own staff experiences, we decided to back away from the whole thing and live our lives. Kept the kids out of CofS. Fast forward to now, no damage and no regrets. Some people were not so lucky.
Richard,
I too gained from the auditing and training. I saw the degradation of staff members from 1967 onward. The staff degradation was worse where the sea org was in operation. I heard rumors of dirty tricks but shrugged that off. And, I kept my distance.
My take on the percent ‘destroyed’ (very relative) is easy to deduce. Of the original 100 Clears, all professional class 6 auditors, Ron declared over 50% suppressive. Many recovered their lives. That fact alone shows that Scientology spits out their best and so what is left in the Church are the robots. They will do anything that Ron said or wrote, without questioning a single word. Also, I disagree that what you saw was ‘cherry picking’, unless you wanted Mike and Leah to include someone on the show who was inarticulate and incoherent from living a life inside the Scientology bubble.
Jim – “Robots” is politically incorrect. Robots just need oil and electricity.
Not the human kind. This is third entry of American Heritage dictionary
3. A person who works mechanically without original thought, especially one who responds automatically to the commands of others.
Sounds like a keeper to me.
You are spot on JIm.
I’m not on a crusade to alter anyone’s prejudice.
So many lives also applies to the family members who were ripped apart from Scientology policies and any journalists or enemies of the church. I’m not just referring to the members. Remember many families lost loved ones to this church and when you join the church you leave behind the non believers. When you leave the church you may also leave behind families. So yes, so many people were affected and so many lives were destroyed especially the people who tried to highlight and speak out against the church, their lives were destroyed.
Also, consider the size of the Co$. The true size, not the billion-burgers-sold claims of McSavage. True size is much smaller than, say the Catholic Church, Hindu, Judaism. If everyone reported every rape, molestation, assault and battery, sleep deprivation, slave labor, mental abuse, emotional abuse, spritual abuse, being isolated from support, illegal imprisonment, I bet the percentages are much higher than other “churches”.
The true size of Scientology doesn’t come close to even cracking the top 20, though at a peak of a couple of decades ago in might have been in the 20s (and then, probably only from a very Western view that failed to account for a lot of Eastern sects, and indigenous practices); at its current shrunken size, it doesn’t even make the top 100 in the US, much less worldwide.
Scientology gets publicity far in excess of its actual size – at this point, Eckankar, may actually be a bit larger – but that’s probably in part because its abuses are outsized.
Gravity and Peacemaker – There is one list on which scn always ranks near the top and that is the list of “worst cults”, right up there with the Moonies.
Just saw it Mike. All I can say is thank you. Thank you for showing the writings. The guests were great.
I loved it. No criticism. I was riveted. You ARE DOING IT!!!! YEeeaayy!
All we need to do is reveal Ron’s writings.
The greatest existential threat to Scientology is the truth about Scientology.
L Ron Hubbard……. u gowen down brother!
I feel sorry for Scientologists. Ron was a dangerous loon.
Mike has too much integrity to say it, but I will… Support the brave sponsors of A&E’s Aftermath.
And then PLEASE boycott anything that has scientology celebrities. Remember that the likes of Tom Cruise and John Travolta give their money to scientology, so if you support them by buying a ticket to their movies, you are indirectly supporting human rights violations.
Hi Mike. I was so happy to see you and Leah last night! Unfortunately, I missed the first hour or so, because I thought these were all re-runs. I was pleasantly surprised to find out it was not. What a difference you are all making in this world. I’m convinced that as a result of this show, Scientology will crumble. The first thing that will happen is that the IRS will demand to see all their books. As a result, Miscavidge will freak out and try to leave with his millions. I pray that all these poor, misguided people will escape and find a new and much better life. Keep it up guys! You’re making such a huge difference.
Congratulations to Leah and Mike for a great show! I’m looking forward to season 2.
Mike, you, Leah, the Aftermath crew and A&E have done it again and well done indeed Sir! Bravo! Your guests were brilliant as well as brave to write, continue to write, and now come on the show to speak about their experiences.I am so glad that you touched on Project Snow White and Paulette Cooper to lay down a long history of espionage, attack, and destroying any perceived “enemy”. (The gentleman who participated in the whole Paulette Cooper event touched my heart and hope he forgives himself, he seems like a very good man at heart.) It is a very Soviet system indeed (no offense to any Russian viewers intended here), but I am sure that Stalin would be proud. Our CIA has nothing on these folks. If this agency was not labeled a “Church” but a political cause or a social one, it would have been investigated a long time ago.
I do have a question however…the more I thought about it I have wondered what “work” is done to clear the planet during the time a practitioner is in their local branch. I hear a lot of auditing and a lot of course work, but that is for self. Sea Org is strong arming folks for money, in theory for the world. But other than that I am confused.
Waiting for season 2! Gotta say Mr. Rinder I am definitely crushing on you and the work you are doing. Your level of dignity is not seen much anymore. Take good care!
Wendy
It *IS* a very Soviet system. It’s not offensive, it’s the truth. My mother is from a former Soviet state and once she converted to Christianity and started getting too mouthy about the regime’s religious persecution through her freelance journalism, the KGB came after her hard and threw her into jail for a time. She eventually had no choice but to leave everything behind, including her family (most of whom still shun her). Luckily this was right as the USSR collapsed, so she was able to flee to the US. This is why it makes my blood boil when $cientology tries to hide behind other religions and take up the anti-religious persecution cause to make it seem like they’re a normal religion whose members are being “persecuted” by the government, media, public, etc. They ARE the persecutors, just as the Soviet regime was. They hold their own people as prisoners, try to destroy the lives of dissidents and critics, and tear families apart.
Anyone who’s “offended” by your comparison is merely blind to the truth.
Leah and your unwavering representation of the church of Scientology has enlightened me. I am a Human Services major at a local college and we are taught to be open minded and learn as much as we can. Thank you. I have a 10 year old son that I spoke about Scientology and he understands that this is not a religion and it is a hypnotic cult.
I laughed some and I cried alot. I did not take my eyes away from the TV. I think you and Leah acted like family does,and you both were fantastic!! I can’t wait for the new season to start!!
Great show again last night. Thanks to Leah and Mike and the Producers for their efforts to turn out an informative and entertaining show. Some of my thoughts in watching the show –
– Great guests. People who have been involved in exposing Scientology for many years.
– I loved the reference to Robert Vaughn Young who was a real pioneer in speaking out against LRH, Scientology and the abuses. He deserves more credit.
– Brian Seymour and Nick Xenophon show that when an interested public official gets involved, that real change and results can occur. Australia is leading the way.
– If it was the raid on the Scientology locations by the FBI in the 70s that revealed the files and truth about what was done to Paulette Cooper, imagine what is in those files now. Probably many abuses and harassment by OSA and Scientology that nobody even knows about, not even the people who were secretly harassed. Scientology loves keeping files (PC folders, Ethics Files etc). Imagine what they are hiding in them? FBI take notice. A future class action law suit for damages in the future?
– Great point that Mike and Leah were making and is so true. When you ask why Scientology does the things they do over and over again against perceived enemies and reporters even when they have a negative effect, it is because they are “following LRH and his Policies” and they are not able to change their actions because they are brainwashed to do what LRH says.
I am looking forward to season 2. The Previews were excellent. Thanks again to Leah and Mike and all those who have the courage to tell their stories. You are making a difference.
YES! Great post, Mark!
So glad to see you guys are digging deeper into the stories of survivors of this cult. You are both very brave.
As a Canadian I was happy to see some reference to what happens here. I was at school right by the downtown office of Scientology in Toronto and it was right by the youth homes, prostitutes, drug addicts and young people. It would be good to hear from survivors here in Canada.
Thanks for continuing all your good works!
To Mike. I see the pain in the faces of all your guests that have gotten out of the COS and are trying hard to make up for their past transgressions and that includes you Mike. It is clear how this affects everyone. I think it is being captured on camera very well just like the regret and sorrow of the fellow last night that was part of the Guardian who was so remorseful. I know that we all have caused pain in the the lives of others thinking we were doing the right thing only to find out later we were wrong and we all feel regret and remorse. Not that it matters much but I for one am here to tell you that I hope this project helps you gain back that part of you may feel has died from your time at COS. I really hope you get some redemption when you finish this project, whenever it may be and know that you are doing everything you can to right the wrongs. I for one respect the heck out of you for throwing yourself into this firestorm and I truly believe that while your viewers will be riveted to the stories, that you will gain back the redemption that I think you seek. So be of good cheer. I think you are doing a great job and wish all the good things for you and your family.
Atonement is always there for people who feel guilty.
I know you all will agree with me, if someone asks for forgiveness, and then tries to atone, forgiveness is a given. Mike has certainly earned all of our forgiveness.
I thought the show was awesome! I wondered how you all would transition from end season 1 & begin season 2…having Paul Haggis is huuugge! Can’t wait to see it…also, I’m hoping the detectives are from LAPD & it’s about 1. Where’s Shelley, 2. Rape
Awesome…wished you’d get Katie Holmes, Lisa Marie, and Nicole…but that’s probably impossible.
Good point. It would be eye opening im sure to have Nicole. Katie. And. Lisa Marie
I’m sure they all had to sign papers saying they wouldn’t say anything bad about Scientology.
Great show even tho it made me cry.
Stay safe…this is very scary stuff.
I was forced to sign a paper saying that I understood that I would get a non- enturbulation order if I said anything bad about Scn AOLA the SO or the Freewinds. I had never said anything bad about anyone of them at that point. I should have said then : “GO AHEAD. MAKE MY DAY “.
The show was amazing last night, as all of them have been. But the heights you and Leah reach keep getting higher and higher. I am sorry how badly Len Zinberg feels – I think that he, and the rest of those who have spoken out, are truly victims. Nobody sets out and proclaims they want to be in a cult; it’s all master manipulation. I think most everyone have been duped by something and regret it later. I hope that Len, you, Leah, and whoever else continue to receive support and affirmation, because what you are doing is SO important. My husband and I would really like to see Scientology crash and burn, but I suppose that is hoping for too much. Thank you for all you are doing.
Yeah Mike, I also thought the show was great, but do have a couple comments/suggestions that have been mentioned earlier. It came across the airwaves that Leah was targeting, or maybe assigning more responsibility for some actions to you than was necessary. I got the impression that it was for dramatic effect, and maybe to *inoculate* against people in the audience who may be thinking that you hadn’t served enough penance. If that’s sort of the style of interaction that you and Leah have gotten into, and it’s comfortable for both, then fine. But, if it is for dramatic purposes, I, for one, think you might dial it back a little. Also, you might give some thought to softening up those OSA TR’s. Except for a few times of stepping into whatever emotional content you might have regarding a certain event, your demeanor was reminiscent of those old cartoons where the face stayed to same, but only the lips or eyes moved. Think a little about some Mood Drills. Lastly, the programs seem quite heavily oriented to all the really negative content and event of scientology. That’s understandable because that’s the whole purpose of the series. But it kind of leaves people who haven’t had much experience with the subject wondering WHY, if all this is so blatant, and so pervasive, would ANYONE get involved. My experience was in Mission, ending up as a Mission Holder with 5 locations in the Mid-West. I’m Cl VI, XDN C/S OT V under Mayo at Flag. I had 100’s of active public on lines at the time, and our whole focus was “Find what the person wanted to do, and help them do it better”. We produced miracles every day, and changed peoples lives for the better. I turned over the missions and quietly exited after the Flag Mission Holder’s meetings with Bill Franks, and before the class action com-evs by the finance police in SF. I only used, or sent people to an org for services we couldn’t delivery, and watched over them while they were there very closely. So, most of the stuff you and Leah are bringing out, is nothing I personally experienced, though I have no doubt that they happened and were worse in the experience. So, that’s my $.25 worth. Keep up the good work.
Jim Wolery: “I had 100’s of active public on lines at the time, and our whole focus was “Find what the person wanted to do, and help them do it better”. We produced miracles every day, and changed peoples lives for the better…So, most of the stuff you and Leah are bringing out, is nothing I personally experienced, though I have no doubt that they happened and were worse in the experience.”
My experience was basically the same as yours, and it makes me wonder if not acknowledging the good (in the earlier years, at least) causes a loss of credibility of all the bad, with regard to some of the viewers who are former Scientologists and some that are still in.
I agree with the rest of your post too, except for the part about Mike having “OSA TRs.” I thought his TR-0 and other TRs were very good, especially when Leah kept interrupting him until he finally had to say something. His TR-0 stayed in but Leah’s seemed to go out, judging by their indicators.
What’s a TR?
TR stands for Training Routine. Training Routines are drills in communication. You start out by drilling how to simply “be there” comfortably. In other words, to be comfortable in present time, wherever you are and whatever the circumstances. That’s the drill named TR-0 that I mentioned. It’s like what other teachings call “presence” or being in the Now. And it doesn’t mean that you suppress your emotions, as some posters have incorrectly stated.
The other TRs drill a person on other aspects of communication with others. Auditors learn these drills with the purpose of communicating well in auditing sessions. But they aren’t just for auditors – anybody can improve their communication in social situations as well. The Communication Course is one of the courses many people feel they got a lot out of.
Oh heck – I remember now. Those are the same TR’s I did back in 1960 when I was 6 years old in my home under the supervision of my father and then carried on doing them off and on throughout my 11 year SO career. Thankfully DM basically kicked out my wife Lois and I in 1982 or so.
I was only joking Marildi and I do appreciate your thoughtful explanation. You were trying to be kind. Surely though you have seen my numerous comments and have even written a number of articles for Mike.
I don’t want to get into an exchange with you regarding this so I wont even mention my views about TRs or OT III or BTs or anything. Thanks for answering though.
Of course I know who you are, CPO. I didn’t know what was up with your question, but thought I would explain the TRs anyway for people who don’t know – which on these particular thread is probably quite a few.
Anyway, I’m truly sorry you were one of those who had bad experiences.
Hi Miraldi, I remember you from TIR in, I think, Charlotte. Anyhow, in response to “not acknowledging the good (in the earlier years, at least) causes a loss of credibility of all the bad,”, Yeah, exactly. Being heavily one sided just creates, I feel anyway, a sense of unreality both ways. People who have never been exposed, just can’t imagine how anybody with any sense would do so, and people who are still in or in the *shadows* will tend to discount, and maybe even dismiss the personal gravity of what those coming forth are reporting. It’s still way better to do all the work Mike and Leah are doing, than not doing anything, and there’s doubtless an issue of pendulum swing at play here, but the element of balance is something I hope will be kept in mind.
Jim, I’ve never been to Charlotte, but I remember seeing your name on David St. Lawrence’s old forum (Independent Spritual Technology). If I rememer right, I liked your viewpoints then, too. 🙂
Thanks for expanding on my point of view. Well said again. I’ll sum it up with “And the truth shall set us free.”
Jim, that’s a pretty fair comment – including your understanding of why the pendulum can seem to have swung to far, and your appreciation of the work being done.
On the one hand, I think it does actually hurt the critical position not to adequately explain the good – or sense of good – that attracts people and then keeps them in. To “do something about it” (to paraphrase the stated purpose of this site) requires accurate understand of what is going on; plus being too extreme, might lead some people who most need to get the message, to discount it, as you note.
On the other hand, there is a valid concern that talk about the good, could lead someone to think that it would be okay to go to a CofS org and try it for themselves – possibly with disastrous consequences for various aspects of their wellbeing, and relationships. Whether it’s really even safe for people to go to independents is debatable, given problems such as the lack of professional practice standards to ensure that someone wouldn’t end up with a dangerous hack, but at least that carries much less risk of various sorts of harm.
I do think more balance is in order, and the input of thoughtful observers is appreciated.
It helps to put a “/S” after such messages. Not everybody gets sarcasm.
Like: Do you do TRs with a BT from everybody’s navel? Where is their navel? /S
Marildi, in your early days, how much outside (suppressive) information did you have access to?
None. Virtually no one in the church did. That was in the ’80s.
Jim Wolery – “Also, you might give some thought to softening up those OSA TR’s. Except for a few times of stepping into whatever emotional content you might have regarding a certain event, your demeanor was reminiscent of those old cartoons where the face stayed to same, but only the lips or eyes moved. Think a little about some Mood Drills.” Really??? you had to make this comment Mr. trained auditor. This is what you observed? great eval and inval.
Mike’s TR’s were good. He was there comfortably, listening and NOT interrupting his guests and responding correctly to comments and questions. You think it’s easy to sit across from six people that you were part of going after due to “policy”? It takes a man (or woman) with BALLS to do so.
Just sayin.
I agree Ms. P. That comment was certainly unnecessary. Something was not right about it.
Brian, my whiskers twitched, too.
Things ain’t what they appear to round these parts. mmmmmm..
Appear to “be”
I knew what you meant.
Ms. P, my comment to Mike about the TR’s was simply that, a comment. I believe that he opened up this thread asking for comments, and that’s what I gave. As an observation, I suppose it could be considered evaluative, but, unless you’re locked into the LRH definition of the term as being judgemental in a negative way, is there ANY comment other than some kind of “attaboy” that wouldn’t or couldn’t be thought of that way? As far as invalidative, I would don’t see how that could apply at all. As far as TR’s, in and of themselves, IMO, if you want to think of TR’s as “a manner of self presentation”, different situations deserve different presentations. Mike’s TR’s were, as you say “natural, sitting comfortably, not interrupting, and responding appropriately to questions and comments”, But that describes auditor “in session” TR’s perfectly. To me, in that setting, a little more animation, while still maintaining neutrality would have been a plus. My opinion. I do agree, it takes a gigantic “set” to do what he and Leah are doing, and continue to commend him for that. My only hope was that, in sharing my impression, I might help to make the future shows better in some small way- IF Mike thought my comments might have some merit.
To PeaceMaker, I agree that all of us who knew and lived, and produced the value that proper delivery of the tech with the simple and sole intention of helping others do better in life, have been left with a severe loss of game, and few options on how to get it back, by the total corruption that DM has wrought. It’s a a gigantic shame, really, and one that, after being “out” for more than 35 years, I still frequently get wistful about.
Jim – as someone whose main focus was in the 70’s, I too find it a damn shame that everything went so far south. What a waste! It was so great on many levels back then. Of course, there were organizational pitfalls, but nothing like now. I sense we share a reality, and I appreciate that. I knew many awesome people back in the day, and I think here was a thought in the back of my head that someday I would return to the group. The spaceship has ploughed into the mountain, however.
Too true, Spike.
The problem with “acknowledging the good” is that – at best – no-one outside the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology can agree on a subjective definition of what the “good bits” are.
Outside a coercive environment, we are free to disagree (which we do) and it’s up to us to make the disagreement as constructive or otherwise as we are capable of. I will insist that L Ron Hubbard fully intended dianetics and scientology to be a coercive environment where the conclusion always was that Ron is right and that no criticism is valid. At the same time, Ron changed the “tech” all the time, and that tells me all I need to know. Your milage certainly varies, and That’s Just Life [tm].
I think Leah’s series actually does a good job by clearly saying that when a person is in, with limited access to the facts, their reality is very different from later when they have left and try to come to terms with what happened to them.
As for the credibility of the bad, I really don’t think you have to worry – but it’s good of you to be concerned (juuuust kidding 🙂 ).
Coercive environments are difficult to understand and the general public don’t expect that one organisation with the word “church” over the door to be very different from the vast majority of others that look the same from the outside. I cannot recommend highly enough books by people who know what I’m talking about, such as “Cults Inside Out” by Rick Ross, “opening minds” by Jon Atack and “Combating Cult Mind Control” by Steven Hassan.
Ooops “subjective” “objective, I think.
That’ll learn me to try to sound important by using big words 😉
😀
Jens, English is your second language yet you still write and speak it more beautifully than many of my fellow Brits 🙂
I appreciated Jim’s comment. I think one of my favorite things about it was he said who he was, where he came from, and what his experiences were.
He came from that whole early days fun when the places were busy Mission experience. When I first got in in 77 I was in a mission and it was a lot of fun with a lot of people, a lot of bustling, a lot of dating and flirting, and learning things that seemed to be missing from my education, like communicating properly and doing the drills that helped learn the techniques to be a better communicator.
My early experiences were that it was fun, that it was full of meaning, that I was giving myself a necessary Foundation, like how to be a better person, how to stay off drugs, how to be in present time and stop constantly regretting the stupid things I did as a teenager.
Those initial experiences including the love bombing, having a staff buddy (I did not realize that this staff person who mentored me and took me under her wing and always checked on me was a planned buddy) but that was all part of why my initial experience was such a positive one.
The staff really wanted to see you do better. I never read anything negative about the church, I never heard anything bad about the church, and when the horrible Mission breakup happened the same staff stayed on and tried to make it as easy of a transition as possible for us public people.
After the mission break up we lost a lot of new public period new policies started to be applied and little by little The Joy, the fun, the spontaneity, and the reasons I had loved it initially, we’re drained away. What was left were the friendships with the remaining Scientologists, the admiration we had for the staff and the idea, more than the actuality, that we were improving.
I couldn’t see the manipulation, I didn’t recognize the hypnotism, I didn’t notice the control. But it was there and growing stronger and more restrictive as the years marched forward post-mission breakup.
Mike asked for honest feedback on how we felt the show went. If we just cheerlead it will encourage them to continue, which is the most important thing, but if someone has an opinion about Mike’s tr’s or Leah’s tr’s, I welcome them to make it.
I don’t take it as critical, I take it as one person’s opinion. And seriously knowing where that person is coming from is helpful too. One of the things I love about the comment threads on the blogs here at Mike’s place are the articulate way people of differing viewpoint gently and politely Spar back and forth teasing out better explanations, encouraging more detail on why someone feels the way they feel. I’m glad that Jim said what he said. It doesn’t mean that I agree with him as I was just edge of the couch blanket wrapped around me, wrapped at each Exchange.
I’ll tell you my fantasy and it’s not a criticism, every time they spoke with someone I wanted more, I wanted more Janet Reitman, I wanted more Len Zinberg, I wanted more Mark Ebner, and I don’t mean to leave anybody out or single anybody out that Professor from Canada, I wanted to know where can I go read what he’s written about his understanding of Scientology as a scholar. I was wishing that there was videos of expanded interviews. I’d watch everyone. Heck I’d go behind a paywall at A and E’s website to see them.
There were so many provocative moments on the show that preceded moving on to the next speaker that left me hanging. I wouldn’t have wanted to miss any of what any of the six people brought to the show. But each speaker left me wanting more.
That’s why your show is so incredible and so good. I cried when I listened to Len Zinberg tell his story. I imagined the pain he held in his heart for so long. For so long after leaving. He left for the right reasons, he became a father, he carved out a new life for himself and yet his heart had this great sadness that he just carried around like some malign weight. One he couldn’t leave behind. I just cried. It’s bringing me to tears just writing about it. Because I understand that pain. I once wrote a KR that I did not want to write and I sent it to all the people I was supposed to send it to and it caused a huge problem for the person I wrote the KR on and I knew as I was writing it this is so wrong. And when I watched that person move away because of the KR I had written I had a dark grey, heavy place in my heart. Leaving Scientology didn’t lighten that load. Len Zinberg, you were so generous to open your heart on the show. I hope you do a video or write a book or write a blog post. I’d like to hear more from you.
2 days later and I’m thinking about parts of the show they pop into my mind and start a mental conversation. Because it had such an impact on me I can’t really find things like, did Leah and Mike joke too much, I didn’t think so. Or was Mike’s tr’s too stiff? Again I don’t think so. I love the gravitas and the steadiness of Mike on the show I feel like I can lean on that steadiness to lift me back up straight when I start falling sideways listening to the stories.
I did ramble on a bit, but my point is I’m so happy that Jim gave his Viewpoint of feedback and told the story of where he came from. It’s fascinating, he came from a time when I was getting in and then he left as it started to get worse and worse. So my memories of hell are from after the mission break up. But I very much enjoyed reading his feedback and reading his comment. I just wanted to say right here, Jim I hope you comment again and I enjoy your Auditors viewpoint on the little things.
CPO: “Mike asked for honest feedback on how we felt the show went. If we just cheerlead it will encourage them to continue, which is the most important thing, but if someone has an opinion about Mike’s tr’s or Leah’s tr’s, I welcome them to make it.”
I agree. People have different responses, and Mike is sincerely interested in hearing what they have to say. He doesn’t need anybody to “stick up for him” by discouraging constructive criticism. This isn’t the CoS where you don’t dare express a different point of view
.
CPO: “I very much enjoyed reading his [Jim’s] feedback and reading his comment. I just wanted to say right here, Jim I hope you comment again and I enjoy your Auditors viewpoint on the little things.”
+1
p.s. You made many other good points too.
Coming from you, who certainly fears nothing from differing viewpointed commenters, I appreciate that.
One thing that has surprised me about posting on this blog is that I’ve come to like all you guys with your differing viewpoints. Communication is a good thing. 🙂
Wow! Clearly (or is it CPO?) that was some deep and personal sharing, AND validating. Thank you. It brought a tear of 2 to my eyes. You too, Miraldi. I have found that those who had only minimal exposure before the Mission demise, and even more so, those who’s ONLY experience was from ’84 or so on in the orgs, are really hypersensitive to anything they might perceive as being invalidative, and have a hair trigger to fire back at perceived wrongs. It’s made honest sharing on a variety of things not particularly enjoyable. This helped. Thanks again,
VWD to you Mike, Leah and everyone else involved in the Aftermath.
I just watched the newest episode this morning before heading into work and plan on re-watching it again very soon. The point brought up by your fellow Aussie of a government oversight for non-profits is something I would like to see in the US. I think a lot of people mistake church for non-profit. They are not the same and a legislating financial transparency should be possible (from my non-lawyer viewpoint). Separation of church and state should only apply to religious practices not their finances.
On a side not, I work in a small mid-western town and from time to time during season one the show would come up in conversation with my customers. They would ask if I had seen it, not because they knew i had a Scn past, but because they wanted to talk about it in the same way people like to discuss other shows that they really enjoyed. Curiously, the beliefs of COS are not the objection, it is how the people on the episode were treated, forced abortions, mistreatment in general, but the worst was the separation of families. Disconnection really hits home with the people in this area and I imagine other agricultural communities as were.
Here is my wish for a future episode. Find someone who is willing to talk that was OSA, high up if possible, also knew DM very well and probably suffered abuse from him directly, wouldn’t hurt if he also had an accent, maybe Australian, then ask this person some deep probing question about the OSA operations, past and present. I would also be interested to know if the higher up execs in the church have significantly better living conditions than the rest of the SO.
My biggest wish, keep up the great work on the show.
I think Mike Rinder might be that person!
that would be great! He never even crossed my mind. 😉
Those were two of the fastest hours I have ever experienced. What a truly superb, intelligent show – just astonishing. I wish I could put myself in the mindset of someone finding all of this out for the first time; it must be mind-blowing for those who are new to the subject. Talk about baptism of fire!
The panel were first class; what great choices.
Mike, you are a rock and you hold the entire show together. Leah’s is the voice that for so long was denied to the many thousands of ex-Scientologists. It is a privilege to watch both of your journeys.
And Len. He is a good, honourable man — who manages to make me cry almost every time I hear him speak 🙂
Every guest was brilliant, but I was almost on my feet applauding Bryan Seymour’s call to arms. That was one of the best cases I’ve ever heard put forward for oversight of Scientology by the American government.
A simplicity finally occurred to me why Scientology is so frantic, feverish about smearing or hushing (or destroying utterly) their critics. THEY have something [a lot] to cover up!
Mike you were exactly correct in stating they are the best at creating their own enemies! Exactly! Leah mentions Hubbard was a genius, and most Ex’s know that too. He was in addition delusional and paranoid almost from the beginning, created by himself and in the end it did him in, captive by his own haunts.
Great start to this year. All the guests did awesome on camera. Loved the show and looking forward to more hard hitting episodes. Great job! A+
One thing that always riles me up is everyone still calls LRH a genius. He was NOT a genius. He had a medium IQ at best, and his writings are evidence.
LRH was only a conman, but he was a conman with a severe narcissistic disorder.
AMEN to that…….lrh = NOT a genius!!!
This was a wonderful episode!! You and Leah are such a great team. I can’t wait for the upcoming season. Everyone has expressed this so eloquently, I wouldnt be saying anything different, but I really appreciated seeing the documents of Scientology. Hubbard’s fair game.
There is no way to claim Cherch of Scientology or the practice of Hubbard’s”tech” is a Miscavage perversion. Mr. Hubbard wrote that.
Did Tom Cruise go through 6 hours training daily. Did Cruise study every Hubbard book ? I can not believe he could or would. Looks no question million dollar smile but intelligence…not from what I saw on journalistic TV Matt Lauer saying he knows all there is about Psychiatry and with Oprah …millions make you acceptable I guess.
You and Leah wonderful exposure …..and gift to many.
Tom Cruise is at best a useful idiot for Miscavige, and at worst a willing accomplice to the human rights violations of scientology.
Either way, he comes out of this smelling foul. I sincerely hope he wakes up one day so that his legacy won’t be ridiculed by history.
Mike, Leah, A&E and everyone else involved, I applaud you for the wonderful work you have done, and are doing, with this series!! I hope I am not mis-stating here, but as I see it, your masterful work and choice of subject in Season One has done the seemingly impossible!!
It has reached out to the general, “normal” public by addressing primary instinctive areas (family, faith, love) that they can relate to. Then, it tactfully addresses how people of above-average intelligence, decent family backgrounds, etc. can get sucked in so deeply and completely to the point of allowing themselves to be put “in the hole”!
I missed the airing of this Season’s opening episode! I had myself all signed up for A&E, but was busily typing some notes of my own on the subject of DM (David Miscavige). I thought it would be available for streaming in the fifteen minutes it took me to complete the hilarious recounting of my first “introductory meeting” with David Miscavige at the “secret unit” in La Quinta California (where I received my first “severe reality adjustment”, from the (then) boy who coined the phrase). My relationship with DM never improved, so you can imagine how much fun I had when he later put himself in charge…
Since I missed the episode (and it WAS not available for streaming), I was reading the “About Me” section of your blog site. We have a lot in common in our areas of Scientology Training and (non-existent) paths up the “Bridge”! I hope you don’t mind my reposting your section here as reference? I do not want to offend you, or anyone else! Please advise if I am breaking any rules I am not yet aware of…
You are way ahead of me in a few key areas of “training” though. I had not graduated High School (and never did, but have since gone to college where I easily aced the entrance exam in my late 40’s, and therefore was exempt). I will have to look up what “Hubbard Qualified Scientologist” is, but if it includes reading LRH’s book “Dianetics”, that never did happen either! (Though as a Messenger I was in charge of projects over Scientology’s Publications Organization circa 1979!) I’ll have to look up what “NOTs” is… but I was on the “Secret Unit” RPF along with Shelly (later Miscavige) in 1977 or 1978, so most likely I am “NOTs”. Of course, I also underwent many intensive security (sec) checks. And I’m sure, whatever “FPRD” is… Like you, I also completed the the “pilot Key To Life Course” around the same time you did, but I was in LA then and, as a PAC (Pacific) Commodore’s Messenger (CMO), was in charge of executing projects for the new, small PAC Organization that was delivering the Pilot.
There, I think that’s quite enough information to get me sufficiently in trouble with DM and the “Church” for my first “Speaking Out” in forty years of silence…
From your “About Me – Mike Rinder” page:
“Scientology Training
I have done extensive Scientology administrative training – the Organizational Executive Course (OEC), Data Series Evaluators Course (DSEC), and numerous hats and basic courses like PTS/SP, Ethics Specialist etc. My tech training beyond Hubbard Qualified Scientologist is limited to Read It Drill It Do It on the RPF in 1985 where because I was NOTs case level I learned to audit NOTs. I started NOTs when it was first exported to the FSO in 1979, but after the early 90’s virtually the only time I was behind a meter was undergoing sec checks or FPRD.”
Again, THANK YOU, Mike and Leah, for your bravery and amazing work! Not to mention, I feel that you literally saved me from destroying myself!
Side note: David, be aware that I dislike you as much or more, than you ever disliked me! As a person who cleaned your room as a CMO Estate Project Force (EPF, required Sea Org indoctrination) in La Quinta CA, and then again, when you busted me back to the EPF in LA, I know more about your personally than anyone would ever want to. With that, along with being quite close friends with Shelly Miscavige as roommates in La Quinta, I have more “Out 2-D” dirt on you than you EVER got on me during all of those Security Checks! I also know what you were so concerned about Dede and Gale seeing in your and Shelly’s room in LA. You MISSED that in the Sec Checks! They are not infallible… Just dream about once again standing on a beautiful mountain top, or another very pleasant thought, and you can make that “needle float”…
” I have more “Out 2-D” dirt on you than you EVER got on me during all of those Security Checks! I also know what you were so concerned about Dede and Gale seeing in your and Shelly’s room in LA. You MISSED that in the Sec Checks!”
Excellent! Now, quit teasing us here and DISH!
Power-mad sadists like lil davey always have kinky and perverted sexual proclivities, which they’re deathly afraid that someone will discover and reveal…so please do so now 😉
Maybe better left to be told PERSONALLY to Leah & Mike….WHY Give anyone other than Leah & Mike a “heads up” so that they can try to block or interfere with some very heavy duty information that MIGHT be used in a court of law.
Excellent point!
CMO Lost, If you signed up for Season one of Aftermath through Amazon, you should be able to stream Monday’s episode 9 now. It became available for streaming about 12 hours after it aired.
Yay! Thank you Mark for letting me know it is available now 🙂 And thank you all for your comments!
I had to run off to work (drats!), but only have a little more to do before I can watch!
Have a great evening everyone!
CMO, you are now my favorite person in the universe.
Please PLEASE tell us more about David Miscavige.
I love you more than you will ever know!!
KEEP UP THE GREAT WORK!! I am obsessed with the show i recently moved to hemet and I have driven by the Gold base. I so badly want to help these people atleast see the truth so they can live a real life. I admire the strength you and Leah have to do this show and come forward no matter what the “church” does in retaliation. I only hope to get the chance to meet you both one day. I cannot wait for the day they get brought down and I look forward to season 2. Much love and i continue to spread the word and get the info out. ❤❤❤
marie, I live in another country, but I strongly encourage you to PLEASE contact your local law enforcement and politicians to investigate the human rights violations occurring at scientology’s Hemet gold base. In fact, talk to your neighbors and friends and encourage them to do the same!
We are all good people who want to put an end to scientology’s abuses. Please speak out, and do not be afraid. Scientology has no teeth anymore, and judges are sick of their nonsense..
I occurred to me as I watched last nights show, and having watched Louis Theroux’s movie with Marty Rathbun, that all of you (you, Marty, Len Zinberg, etc.) have such a heavy weight to bear over what was done, “you” did because it was church (LRH) policy. Some, I’m sure after watching Marty react, that you can never talk about. And that makes the weight even heavier and isolating.
ALL of you have my respect and admiration (FWIW) as you do what you can,all that you can to make amends, repair and expose. That takes a lot of courage, not just from what COS could do to you, but more importantly facing yourself.
The church produced fighters. They just never conceived those fighters would take off the blinders, and then take all they know fight them in return. This time on the right side.
Exactly! Check out the “Bolivar memo” to see what was expected by L Ron Hubbard of his loyal minions.
http://tonyortega.org/2013/11/21/the-ethics-of-political-power-scientologys-worship-of-ruthlessness/
I have mumbled about a truth and reconciliation committee being needed for this whole topic. The trouble is that ex-victims take such a long time to recover. At least, out in the real world, more and more survivors are beginning to talk and that is to their huge credit.
Isn’t the “out exchange” policy proof enough to the IRS that the “church” is NOT using its tax exempt status to help the community?
That scientology has tax-exempt status is an embarrassment to the citizens of the United States.
To all those that were in the IRS in the eighties and who were intimidated by the likes of David Miscavige, please hang your heads in shame. You let down your fellow citizens.
Mike and Leah, wow – what a powerful and revealing show !!….. even with a little bit of humor, always love that. The constant quoting of the LRH policy is brilliant and really shows outsiders the monster machine that LRH built and that DM took over and uses to his own personal gain and narcissism. Your guests were all excellent and a great choice of key people to shed light on the various aspects. Loved the Australian story of his adoption and how the church used that in their suppressive way to try and get him to get rid of himself, typical of what we’ve heard them do to others as well and unfortunately sometimes it works. Good job on the member of Parliament that exposed the church in Australia, we need that done over here. The ex-GO guy was excellent, if we can get more of these guys that are willing to spill the beans on the terror the church had them bring on others it would put the nail in the coffin for the church……. these guys are key and hard to come by as very few would have the courage to do what this man did, to spill his guts on his own transgressions against mankind for the sake of his church. There are more like him out there, but there are few that will expose it like this. Even Marty wouldn’t do it yet we know Marty did a lot of things. We forgive them if they will only speak out and label the true criminal which is the church and namely Miscavige who perpetrates these crimes against others. One of the main reasons Miscavige was able to take control of the church after LRH passed is because he too is a Malignant Narcissist, like LRH. The staff in the church were so used to being treated with harsh discipline, constant sec checking, constant and debilitating criticism, denigration, mind control, constant indoctrination, etc. LRH had it down to a fine art so when Miscavige kept it up it was like the norm. DM just continued all of these narcissistic actions and one by one took out the other top execs, it was the same but even more intense than what LRH was already doing. DM has his own evil streak that completely matched LRH’s and so by default DM was able to step in and continue this behavior. DM took it a step further and states on the Scn website that “he was the chosen one”, (pretending that he was chosen by LRH to lead the church), this couldn’t be further from the truth. He was ordered by LRH to be sec checked himself because of his actions at the time, but skated out of this by hiding the papers so the report never made it to LRH. He lied and conned his way to the top, typical of his trend since being in the Sea Org from the age of 16, always a compulsive liar yet the first one to accuse that of others. As far as someone’s comment that Trump is like these guys, this couldn’t be further from the truth, Trump is an Angel when compared to LRH and DM, you truly have no idea……. but let’s keep politics out of this. Mike and Leah, your show is riveting and compelling, far more than we ever expected and exciting to watch. We all look forward to it and are riveted to the end and then not wanting it to end, wishing for more…… And truly this is only touching the surface of what is out there……
Terri Gamboa
Ex SO, ex ED ASI
Declared SP by DM
Long time trusted LRH Messenger
Lifetime Trustee of CST, LRH appointed
Holder of the “LRH Diamond Card”, the 6 most Trusted top Execs of all time-
LRH appointed
Left 27 years ago
Terri Gamboa, Thank you for your great post. We are lucky to have first hand stories from high up execs like yourself who were actually there with LRH. Thank you for speaking out. I do need to ask: what is “LRH Diamond Card”?
Thanks Terri for all of this truth. I remember working with you when we were in, sending my weekly reports via you at asi to rtc. You always were looked at as one of the straight shooters. You always were looked at as a truth teller.
Terri Gamboa!! Whoa! Crazy how many names I haven’t heard in forever, and thought I’d long since forgotten… It is wonderful to see yours and it brings a flood of good memories! There aren’t many of those for me since I arrived “over the rainbow” shortly after DM.
I remember you distinctly! Beautiful, intelligent and kind. Not that you weren’t tough as nails when you needed to be, which you also seemed to do with grace! Just enough tone, force and intention to get things moving as they should, and never an ounce more.
Sorry, this isn’t the place for this, but it is very good to “hear from you”! You were one of the CMO I never knew what happened to. Hoping you are excellent, as I am SURE you are!
Nice to hear from you, whoever you are ! You can email me at: terrigamboa@aol.com
I agree with you Terri. Donald Trump is a saint compared to Miscavige. In fact, I think Donald Trump should be contacted and encouraged to help bring down that despotic little twat Miscavige.
Totally agree!!!!! 🙂
Although Trump is not as malignant as DM appears to be, he is certainly every bit as narcissistic as anyone ever was, and also feels he is beyond right and wrong. Trump practiced “affirmations” as did LRH, which he learned as a child directly from Norman Vincent Peale. Here is the DSM definition of Narcissism:
Symptoms of Narcissistic Personality Disorder
The definition of NPD states that it comprises of a persistent manner of grandiosity, a continuous desire for admiration, along with a lack of empathy. It starts by early adulthood and occurs in a range of situations, as signified by the existence of any 5 of the next 9 standards (American Psychiatric Association, 2013):
A grandiose logic of self-importance
A fixation with fantasies of infinite success, control, brilliance, beauty, or idyllic love
A credence that he or she is extraordinary and exceptional and can only be understood by, or should connect with, other extraordinary or important people or institutions
A desire for unwarranted admiration
A sense of entitlement
Interpersonally oppressive behavior
No form of empathy
Resentment of others or a conviction that others are resentful of him or her
A display of egotistical and conceited behaviors or attitudes
I think a Narcissistic Personality can be more or less malignant or hateful, but just as self-centered, apart from whatever their degree of malignancy is.
Read Trump’s books. Read what he says about himself and how vital it is to him to annihilate whomever he considers his enemies. How crucial it is for him to do so, and how he never lets anything go, never, ever, ever. Read his authorized biographies in the first person and then compare that data to how he talks, acts and reacts in present time as our President.
Hear, hear!
(And where is Jesse Prince’s book, now that we’re talking about Captain David “he is NOT insane!” Miscavige’s being sec checked?)
Whether the serious crimes and massive human/civil rights abuses committed by this predatory and parasitical faux church end with a whimper – when they can no longer entice any new marks into the cult – or with a bang – when the IRS revokes their tax-exempt status and lil davey gets his child-size pants sued off of him – is anyone’s bet. But end it, we surely will!
To Mike, Leah and everyone else who’s been so effective in exposing the cult’s rampant abuses and unconscionable acts: We admire, respect and are deeply grateful to you for your courage, commitment and dedication to this very important cause!
Perhaps in a few days I’ll be able to come up with some constructive criticism, but for now, I’m still overwhelmed by the brilliance, clarity and heart that went into creating that extraordinarily powerful two-hour special!
What Harpoona said!
What Cindy said!
What Robert said!
What OSD said
What McCarran said!
Thanks again, Mike, for the excellent and continuing review of Scientology’s policies which disrupt families and normal home life. This preview portends a great second season. It feels even more certain we will see government action about $CO’s tax exemption; this will then allow more public exposure to these disastrous ‘policies’ which drive families away from each other.
And Leah’s ‘jabs’ at you are really funny! Adds a little levity to such as serious discussion.
The gentleman from Australia shared some very useful practical tips for rallying pushback against the Church of Scientology. The notion of Senatorial privilege or its equivalent could open a few doors. If we had more effective, sane, and engaged leadership in the Congress and White House, the FBI would be on this along with the IRS.
John J,
Believe it it or not, you still do have effective, sane, and engaged leadership in the Congress and White House.
They will listen to you if you talk to them. It is your right as a citizen to engage the people that represent you. Please phone, or better yet, write them to ask for TWO things… one, to investigate the church of scientology for human rights violations, and two, to respond back as to what is being done about it.
Please be a responsible citizen and exercise your rights. Your founding fathers of the United States would expect nothing less of you.
Ditto that, John. I feel I’m nearly on a first name basis with my Congressman and Senator. As long as you are respectful but firm and have a very clear idea of what you want to say (no rambling), I have found my representatives to be more than willing to listen and respond.
“If we had more effective, sane, and engaged leadership in the Congress and White House, the FBI would be on this along with the IRS.”
Agreed John J, but we appear to lack the political will of a Nick Xenophon here in the U.S. I’ve contacted my Congressional senators & reps on this subject several times over the past year, and have never received so much as an automatic reply (in the usual “position” form letter), once from any of them! I will continue to write/contact my elected reps on Capitol Hill with the hope that others will have better luck in their respective states. I’m assuming that with everything that is happening with the current admin, the entire Congress has gone from being dead-locked to just plain dysfunctional. I’ve even heard ‘talk’ of legislation to blur the lines separating church and state; which is the polar opposite of what we should be considering, imho.
Funny, but this was never brought up during the Obama administration. 🙂
If anyone has a link to watching this, I’d love to see it. I no longer have A and E. As of yet, I can’t find it elsewhere.
they show full episodes on their website – hopefully that works for you 🙂
http://www.aetv.com/shows/leah-remini-scientology-and-the-aftermath
You need to have a cable provider to watch it there. I gave up cable, so I don’t have a provider.
Anywhere else I can watch it?
The least expensive option until it is streamed by A&E is to use either Amazon Firestick and subscribe to DirecTV app (or use Apple TV) or you may use a cell phone with a data plan (or connect wirelessly at a hotspot) and the same app.
Thanks. I gave up cable because it was costing $125.00 a month, and I still had to watch commercials. So I got an over the air digital antenna…I get over 90 channels, but not A and E. So I guess I’ll wait until they stream it for non cable provider people. If it shows up anywhere else, let me (and many others cord cutters) know.
My wife and I in the MidWest are also ‘cord cutters’ but still want to view some channels not yet available through the Internet directly. The DirecTV app for Android phones and Apple products, Fire TV is about $35/month, no contract, for those channels we still like to watch such as A&E, Discovery, and other channels (these are live TV channels). Some channels stream on demand.
I suspect A&E will not have the current shows available for streaming until next year.
You can watch it in 3 parts on Russian Youtube (rutube.ru) it’s the only way i’ve been able to watch the series up to date. Not everything the Ruskies do is bad 🙂
That’s the best advice I’ve had in a long time. Worked great! Thanks.
Initially last year, a day or two after the broadcasts, the episodes were available to watch on the AETV website. I think that perhaps because the show was so successful, ever since the episodes are only accessible to cable TV subscribers.
But as someone mentioned, the episodes can usually be found on RUtube.
Amazon.com offers a reasonably priced subscription for each season, and the episodes can be viewed on a computer without any special software or setup. I ended up patronizing Amazon to avoid the hassles and delays of RUtube, and also to properly recompense A&E for their effort.
You can fairly inexpensively subscribe to the whole season on amazon.
really enjoyed the show last night. the “coming up” clips were intense; looks like you are really digging deep in the upcoming season. i felt like the producers/editors got things just right this time around with mixing in the on-screen text. last season i found myself struggling to listen & read at the same time. this was perfect, and the policy stuff really helped drive home how real this all is.
i have one criticism that i’m sure will be unpopular, but i can’t be the only one who got upset with leah’s comments on how “YOU” (mike) were the one participating in various harmful activities. okay, once, you can write that off as affectionate ribbing. twice, it kinda makes you go “hmmm”. 3+ times, it’s like, “okay, wtf is your problem??!” i hope it didn’t come off as hurtful in person, but i was really taken aback – especially in light of one of the later “coming soon” clips showing leah & mike having a discussion about this very thing. that was not friendship behavior, imo.
great job otherwise. i loved the part with janet, and how each person got some fun insights into the other’s back story. i’m really looking forward to season 2, albeit with a little bit of anxious trepidation!
oh – did they fudge the date on that letter from Tommy or is he back in??
Leah doesnt come across in any way as hurtful or mean-spirited in person. Believe me. She is one of my closest and dearest friends and is like a sister to me. It’s not offensive to me, in fact, in many ways that Brooklyn attitude is very similar to the Autralian sense of humor and friendship. Constant “button-pushing” happens with those you are closest to.
Tommy Davis has never left the fold. He left the SO to live a life of privilege, but he never stopped brown-nosing Miscavige.
that’s reassuring to know; thanks for the clarification, mike. i recently had to explain to my daughter the difference between abusive “teasing” and teasing that is done with love. i’ve experienced both, so i’m sure i was projecting. glad to know i was off-base.
interesting about tommy D. i’m surprised DM “allowed” him out of his orbit. he’s a strange fruit.
Tommy Davis’ family is heavily entwined throughout the CO$ syndicate. Is he still married to Jessica Feschbach?
So true says another Brooklynite….when something is this important we may seem to jump right in to get our point across. We are very PASSIONATE people when it comes to righting wrongs that are being done to others.
For myself…if you REALLY don’t WANT my HONEST opinion…DO NOT ASK…cause that’s what you will get…my honest opinion.
Love to Leah & Mike & thanks for Aftermath #2, for this log to express our views, and most of all love & thanks to your families…..
I feel so sorry for Tommy Davis. He probably can’t stand Miscavige.
I hope that one day he will get his “brown nose” out of Miscavige’s butt for a breath of fresh air, and realize that his name will be forever smeared with Miscavige’s stink unless he atones.
History will judge him harshly unless he gets out now. Wouldn’t it be amazing to see him get out of scientology and reveal his insights?
Tommy Davis, please hear my message!!! It is not too late.
It cuts both ways with Davis; he gets privileged treatment because of his deep and powerful connections, but they also keep him virtually trapped. I have wondered if he’s effectively gone under the radar, and the letter Scientology produced could be in keeping with the sort of thing he would do to keep up appearances and avoid disconnection. I think it’s hard to know what’s going on with him, but he would likely only speak out at the point that the CofS started to come apart completely, and people like his mother and his in-laws would tolerate his doing so.
But if Miscavige does ever lose his grip, or when he’s finally gone and a new leadership of whatever remains comes along to re-write Scientology history yet again, then scientologists are going to be piling on with stories about how he was a terrible SP all along – just like in the videos he now produces about others.
Peacemaker, it sounds like you may have a better insight on guys like Tommy Davis and his KoolAid sipping mother than me. I wish Mike Rinder threw a thing on website for private messaging, but I am sure he knows the evil f***ed up cult would somehow infiltrate and abuse it… wooooo, they are so scary (not anymore, motherfuckers)!
The comment on auditing in last nite’s very well done show got me wondering….I’ve always defended auditing as helpful to anyone who asked explaining how the session made me ‘feel’ better (now that I think about it…euphoric…similar to a drug)…..it may actually be much more sinister……perhaps what it does is make one less introspective into one’s own thoughts and actions………less responsible morally……replaced my own conscience with that of LRH’s since his ‘tech’ seemed to help so much….surrendered my own ability to think for myself in exchange for the druglike effects of auditing….this is a new concept for me….still trying to figure out how such a bright, wonderful, intelligent guy (me) could have given up my ability to reason… and turn into a programed zombie for seven years convinced I was so superior to the nonscn world…….to be honest I did enjoy being so ‘enlightened’, special and heroic at the time…….but at what a price……..my sanity!
” still trying to figure out how such a bright, wonderful, intelligent guy (me) could have given up my ability to reason… and turn into a programed zombie for [fill in the blanks] years convinced I was so superior to the nonscn world……”
You are among friends here John that share in the figure – figure! The key point is… “that was then” and “this is now”. I say fuck that, today is a new day and we are bringin it!
Yo Davey Pooh,
Know this good buddy; we’re all comin’ for ya now; in ways You may only learn about in another life. Good luck finding that next life Dave, things will only get worse for You from here on down into Your death spiral of ecclesiasticalness. Enjoy the spin!
Great story John. In my experience being out since 82 and blogging since 2008?, I have come to the conclusion that Ron consciously developed a system whereby he would control almost every aspect of life.
Ron was a master at manipulating facts, human values and meanings of words. Scientology is the trap that Ron built out of his own genius, knowledge of psychological control.
We all experienced going under the spell of Hubbard. It’s what he wanted and it’s what he got.
BTW, it’s my experience that some auditing was great. It’s just that the down side is we lost our intellectual sovereignty. We lost our freedom on the bridge to total freedom.
Geeze!!!! Could this be looney tunes?
Makes sense to this “never-in” 🙂
It’s all about “feeling” good while subjectively getting worse and getting more dependent on L Ron Hubbard’s mind-fuck.
While it’s just a film, it’s put well in the scene in “the Manchurian Candidate” where Frank Sinatra recounts automatically saying that the murderer is the finest person he ever met while the little voice in the back of his mind goes “hold on, that’s just not true!” Being in the Co$ is about silencing that voice at the back of your mind…
Books by Steven Hassan and Rick Ross are excellent, and “opening minds” by Jon Atack is shorter, just as good IMHO and more recent.
Ooops, “subjectively” should be “objectively,” I think.
At least the books I reference do not make this kind of mistake 🙂
I thought a church is somewhere , where you pray and worship together. What I am learning on the show is, this isn’t a church, but hides behind the title of being a church. This show is an eye opener. Great Job!
I just finished the show. You’re doing a great job as Leah’s sidekick (I swear I heard that somewhere, but I don’t remember where). A fantastic episode and looking forward to season two.
Awesome show! You and Leah are such a team. Your empathy and dedication to expose the lie that Scientology has become is wonderful. The introduction presentation of the exact policies the church lives by and uses to control and destroy anyone deemed hostile is in keeping with the best investigative reporting. You did not even have to search far to dig up the Dirt: The Dirt is out in the open, in the Policy volumes and Packs you were forced to buy and put on your shelves.
There it is for all to see: Ron himself wrote it, Ron himself printed it, Ron himself enforced it, and now when you expose it and you describe what the Ron-robots will do next– Lo and Behold– here they come, just on cue, for the entire world to see. They doom themselves.
You spoke so true when you stated that Scientology knows how to make enemies. Once upon a time training auditors and producing many hours of auditing to public were the valuable end products of the church. Now their only valuable product is making enemies.
Go ahead Scientology. Alienate the world. Make our day
” Go ahead Scientology. Alienate the world. Make our day”
No problem there Jim. That’s a done. Now on to target two and the rest of the universe. Safe to say planet Earth has been cleared of all positive thoughts regarding $cientology!
Mike, do you think there is any correlation between David Miscavige’s wife disappearing and LRH making his wife disappear from Scientology?
Not sure what Mike thinks, but I am pretty sure that I’d like to rescue any poor woman who those two sick bastards were ever attracted to.
LRH and Miscavige are both malevolent souls that the world should eject. They do nothing but harm.
Mike….I understand that “the church” has been invited to appear on the program, but have declined. I’m not surprised. The program is displaying their opinion of the guests that have appeared on the program. No need for “the church” to accept your invitation when their rebuttals are being shown to the viewers. Isn’t that like testifying outside the presence of the jury or testifying without being cross examined. I know it isn’t a court of law but it seemed like a fair analogy. Maybe you should just say that “the church” disputes these statements. If they want to verbally attack one of your guests, make them come out of the shadows and do it in person on the show.
BTW….I love the show and hope it is renewed every year until Scientology is out of business.
Catk, I had the same thought. When reading all the rebuttals from the church, they all came in on the same day or two, about 10 days before the show aired. And some of the comments were so on the topic covered that it made me think Scn had been given a script or an advanced viewing of the show which gave them time to come up with pat answers and rebuttals. That is an unfair advantage to them. My only complaint is that you should not tell them or show them in advance what the show will be airing. Let them come on the show in person to “give their side” if they must. But don’t give them the script in advance so they can have their best “thinkers” come up with clever little rebuttals. That gives them unfair advantage. They don’t deserve any advantage at all.
They dont have an unfair advantage in any way. They have a massive disadvantage. The only thing they can do is respond according to LRH policy and they look stupider every time they do so. We have asked for ANYONE to come on the show, from Miscavige down to anyone who dares identify themselves as a scientologist in good standing. Nobody has the balls to show up.
Thanks Mike. Yes, they are cowards. No one dares come forward. Was Scn or DM given a script or a showing of the show in advance? Just wondering.
No, they are asked to respond to various questions.
We should ask Judge Whitmore for the list of 500. certainly one of them can answer one frickin question ……………….. ya think?
I’m not even sure many folks these days have to balls to even ADMIT they’re a Scientologist. Just the word itself seems to have become so toxic, I would imagine many in the bubble even avoid mentioning it around those in the real world.
I read Janet Reitman’s book, and there was a girl who gladly spoke with her (can’t remember the name off the top of my head). I wonder if she’s still around, and if so, if Janet could contact her and she would be willing (or “allowed”) to come answer some questions?
This episode was great. Loved that you showed the written policies. You also chose the perfect guests. I also love that you show the church response before each commercial, it really shows their insanity when they deny, deny, deny even when you have shown the policy right there in black and white.
Already posted on yesterdays post, but I’ll say it again. Fantastic episode. It’s wonderful how things are explained to us never-ins in a way we can comprehend.
And I think perhaps all of us regular commenters here should take up a collection and buy Mike some new socks so Leah doesn’t keep giving him too much shit about it. 😉
I liked his socks. LOL
Bravo!
While I’d love to see a commission or other type of governing body mandating financial transparency of religious bodies to validate tax status I’ve got real doubt this will occur in the US. Too many mainstream churches will rise up in horror at the idea of ‘government interference’ with their beliefs. However, I do think that Scientology is vulnerable to challenges specific to their policies and actions. At least, I hope.
Last night’s episode was very interesting. And (IMO) very smart to focus on illegalities the church has participated in with targeting non-members and in manipulating legalities to benefit themselves at the expense of outside populations. I love the ex-parishioner’s stories but think the broadening take is great strategy.
I also appreciated mention that many critics of Scientology were once complicit members. The whole blame/forgiveness/culpability/responsibility thing is going to differ depending on personal perspective (and not something that I as a never-in feel comfortable being dogmatic on) but that whole area is an important part of opening up a dialogue about the mind control of many ‘isms’ and coming to understand it.
Mike, I think the way you cut in and out of LRH’s actual policies showing how what happened to people was all written down as a playbook to handle the media and critics was brilliant. So powerful…keep it coming!
Hi Mike: Loved last nights show and all the new guests. I’ve never heard of any of them but again they have the same claims as everyone else. I especially liked the Prof from U of A and the interesting booklet he had.
As for the no smoke without fire concern you raised, just wanted to let you know that I don’t accept anything at face value alone – I like to be given the facts and then let me go and check & see for myself. I always want to see both sides of the debate before I commit to a point of view.
You and Leah provide evidence to back up your claims, tear stained evidence at that – all I’ve ever seen in return from Scientology are vague, sweeping dismissals of what you and your guests offer up but they never seem to commit to a public place any concrete details of what they disagree with, like exactly why what you are saying is not true, nothing. All they claim is that you are all liars and … well worse.
Until they pony up with something definitive as to what they say you are untruthful about – their words are just so much white noise.
Bless you and Leah (and your guests) for putting yourselves in harms way to expose Scientology and it’s abuses.
I have my Brainwashing copy and will probably throw it out only long after I have ‘quietly disposed’ of the tech and policy volumes.
Brilliantly done – I think the emphasis on policy vs. belief is very key. All religions have ideology that others will disagree with, ridicule or find offensive. That’s unimportant. They key here is public and private behavior. How does an organization operate in society? Religious organizations (vs cults) are NOT secretive or overtly hostile and aggressive to society or their critics. They don’t purport to help humanity and then treat humans like a zombie disease to be reviled and cured.
And all tax-exempt organizations that claim to do good works – whether charities or religions – are forced to bolster those claims with measurable results in order to maintain their status. Organizations that inflate those claims, refuse to let them be evaluated by others, or misrepresent the good works they do are subject to public criticism and poor ratings.
Also, all religions have their detractors and critics. Responding like a litigious, sneaky, aggressive child toward detractors not only negates the idea of a “church” but cancels out whatever “good works” it brags about. The kind of organizations that aggressively combat critics are never looked at as ones with legitimate spiritual or philanthropic goals. They are viewed the same way as religious terrorists or totalitarian regimes.
A malignant narcissist is a person who insists they are right about everything and everyone else in the world is wrong, and they are paranoid, hostile and aggressive about anyone who disagrees. There is no room or tolerance for differing opinions or individual thought. Those kinds of people, even if charismatic, are difficult to be around because they seek to subjugate your own identity with their own. They take away the freedom to be respected as different, they don’t allow critical thinking. There is no room for individual dissent.
An organization that behaves the same way is just as dangerous. A policy to harm or destroy others if they disagree, to see those people as threats that must be eradicated, is always the sign of a weak dogma, one the founder or administration does not feel can stand up to scrutiny.
And as for people who claim to be helped by ANY specific form of organized belief, the most important question they need to ask themselves is, could this have possibly been accomplished using any other method or means? Do people outside my belief system accomplish anything similar in terms of success or happiness? Believing something to be true for oneself does not mean it is universally true for everyone, nor does it mean it could not have been accomplished using other means or methods.
Punishing people for simply having questions or different opinions is in direct conflict to the idea of growth. It violates the spiritual “prime directive” of respect for life. Harming others to maintain superiority is inherently an immoral act, regardless of the reasoning behind it. The simple fact that CoS, whatever its purported beliefs, is centered around such policy, that of destroying its “enemies”, which is all outsiders, using methods that are generally seen in political regimes or organized crime, completely negates its claims of being a legitimate “religion”. That fundamental dichotomy, in and of itself, is a reason to take away its tax-exempt status. You can’t say you exist to help humanity if you spend most of your efforts hurting outsiders and helping yourself. And if the “good works” you do don’t stand up to outside scrutiny or measurement, then you are subject to be called a liar, no matter how much you claim to be a “victim” of “religious bigotry”. Bigotry is based on judging others for what they believe, not holding them accountable for claims of their accomplishments.
No legitimate religion spends more money fighting its detractors than doing good works. No legitimate religion expects to have its claims of helping humanity unverifiable or unmeasured by outside sources. No legitimate religion in the modern world is so suspicious of outsiders that it has a policy of hostility and destruction more akin to military campaigns than a peaceful dogma. The only organizations that operate like that are totalitarian regimes, counterintelligence operations, organized crime or scams. If they want to behave like that in society, then they should expect to be treated accordingly. Calling a banana republic a religion doesn’t make it one, and calling a dictator or CEO a religious leader doesn’t make them a prophet either.
Please keep up your good work. There is a lot to be done to make people accountable for their behavior. The gaslighting this organization sanctions towards victims of its deeds is nothing short of spiritual abuse. Trying to destroy your critics is the fastest way to get them to increase. All abusers claim to be victims. It’s just obvious to outsiders that big, rich organizations, in particular, that aggressively attack individuals are rarely, if ever “victims”. A paranoid old man may have thought that he could destroy his critics’ credibility by mercilessly attacking them. But all that does is erode his own and make society side with his detractors. Words are always less important than actions. And we all have an inner spiritual voice that will recognize it when the two don’t match.
Mike. Any idea when this is showing in the UK? I found the first session fascinating, instructive, revealing and endlessly interesting. ?
My only criticism. Is you made it seam like LRH had written all of Scientology Policy but it’s my understanding that that simply isn’t true.
That is most definitely true. Anything written by others has been weeded out and canceled.
Great kick-off for Season 2! The legal side you’re looking at is VERY interesting.
Although all of it was excellent, I truly appreciated the blunt description of Hubbard as a “malignant narcissist”. That’s exactly what he was, and it’s the valence DM (and so many Scns) have adopted. That blinds them from seeing there are other viewpoints, and has created a narcissistic organization/cult.
The vast majority of those still *in* likely won’t watch the show, but hopefully those now out — or never-in — can clearly see the damage caused by the policies and behaviors under the leadership of a narcissist, and can hopefully apply that understanding when and where needed. It’s truly harmful behavior to those who fall victim to it (that includes the pain suffered by Len Zinberg and others similarly influenced, as well as Paulette Cooper and all others who’ve been victims of malignant narcissism … related, or not, to Scientology).
I don’t think LRH was a “malignant narcissist”. I think he was an “ambivalent narcissist.” He had his good days and his bad days.
Valkov, I have to admit that there are puzzling signs of seemingly different types of behavior from Hubbard. But how do you even know he ever had “good days”? He lots of handlers and enablers around him, to try to manage appearances – plus there’s evidence that some of those people as well as other collaborators were responsible for more of his “work” that is actually “workable,” than is generally recognized.
There’s also good evidence that he heavily used alcohol and drugs, perhaps self-medicating, for a long time. I see the underlying consistency in his behavior, as being narcissistic with accompanying characteristics such as abusiveness; was there ever a period of time, for instance, when he suspended the RPF? Did he ever express regret or apologize for anything he had done?
I don’t see how you get “ambivalent,” but if there is some significant evidence for that, I’d be interested to see it. It would also be informative if some of the people with direct experience of Hubbard – and the ability to discern when they might have just been groomed by a sociopath – would share their experiences and perspective.
Mike, Years ago those of us who live around the Tampa Bay area remember the Lisa McPherson story well. I would if you all could touch on it someday.
I not only remember the Lisa McPherson story, as I’m also from Florida, (Tierra Verde) and have grown up not just hearing about, but reading the SP Times, Time mag as well as a myriad of articles surrounding the COS. Each year they are a staple at most Florida fairs, including the Strawberry Festival…i remember cracking a joke to my friends as we walked by the CoS kiosk…i was then followed by what appeared to be adolescent/ twenty somethings and they made fun of and verbally taunted us through the rest of my Festival day.. over a joke…
I have also had the pleasure of meeting and befriending ex Scientologists. As these people have been on the front lines of cult abuses and atrocities. My heart goes out to every person freed but also to those still stuck in it.
Lisa McPherson was a story that resonated with most Florida residents. It also paved the way back then for others to leave the COS.
It became clear at that time to outsiders of COS that something was and is terribly wrong with COS, how they treated their own paritioners as well as how they attacked ex members or anyone who opposes the COS.
I would love to here the “true” story or I should say the whole story regarding Lisa McPherson. I think it important that outsiders be made aware of what the COS is capable of doing to thier their own members for a donated buck…
I am inspired by what you and Mrs. Remini have done. Keep up the great work. May it lead us all to a world free of COS.
You can read Ortega’s writings on the last days of Lisa McPherson:
http://tonyortega.org/the-life-and-death-of-scientology-clear-lisa-mcpherson-told-in-real-time/
Mike, thank you and Leah for your courage. You are a dynamite team. The stories are so hard hitting, and clearly there are many more in store for Season 2. I love the banter and teasing you do with each other, too – it personalizes it and gives a much need sense of levity. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
I fear my 40+ year family member won’t leave until the walls of Int Base melt down. He has told me on multiple occasions that he will never leave and that the organization will take care of him when he is no longer able to work. I can only pray, and I do believe, that the day will come sooner because of what you are doing.
My dream for the outcome of all this……………….DM and others go to jail…………all sci. accounts are frozen……all buildings are sold…….and eventually, all the billions gathered from this go into an account to help the victims………………..and I’m a ‘never in’ 🙂
This was a great start for the new season. I’m sure the PR machine is grinding late into the night. I always wondered what happened to Mary Sue Hubbard, after the raid. Yes, I was there when they
went into the Complex and wondered whatever could they be looking for, what indeed. I wonder where or if Diana is still around, I remember her brilliant red hair, and her involvement with Celebrity Centre. She being LRH’s daughter, and Quentin his son, just sorta disappeared. It’s amazing how many lives, families and friends have been lost, I have people I knew for years that I miss, but can’t speak to now that I am gone from Scientology. Please keep banging on the door of truth, it will open and it will let the light shine in those dark places. Spiritual freedom will not be found within the halls of lies and deception.
Kudos Mike and Leah on the season 2 intro. In getting ready for S2, I’m rewatching S1. I can’t believe the pain and suffering that cult and it’s little weinie leader is causing. AND we all should boycott Tom Cruise movies (I already do) He’s soooo over-rated IMO and a has-been anyway. It is sickening to watch him and dm gushing over each other…YUCK…..(you’re the greatest…..nooo you’re the greatest…..nooooo y……)
Keep up the good work Mike and Leah!!! 🙂
As I watched the show last night, it made me wonder how this organization can call itself a “church” when there are no tenets, scripture or other things that make up a church. What do you believe in? Why do you have to pay to join this “church?” Any organization that makes you disconnect from your family and not allow for privacy is just wrong. The way I see it, Scientology is at the core of the mental abuse suffered by the members. It is not a wonder that there are a lot of mental illness in the church and David Miscavage is at the heart of it. Diet and exercise are not cures for mental illness. Hubbard was not a doctor and there was not study to back up his claims that Scientology was the cure all. My prayer is for all those that were victimized by this entity and I hope that Father in Heaven will deal with him. Mike, you were so brave to come forth and admit to the wrongs that you had done. God bless you for coming forward to right the wrongs and try to make amends. You and your family are in my prayers.
” Any organization that makes you disconnect from your family and not allow for privacy is just wrong.”……Ever heard of “Shunning”?
Yup. It’s wrong.
I think the tenets and scriptures are Hubbard’s writings. Like the Bible is to christians. As an atheist I don’t see a difference in theological reasonableness. Though quite a lot in current day implementation of it (at least most Christian churches).
When the sexual misconduct of Catholic Priests was hidden/covered up for decades, & then finally came to light, we did NOT see that religion sending “squirrel busters, private detectives etc after the news journalist or former members who were the victims of these same sexual assaults.
Why does this organization think it is ok to harass former members & journalist to the point of exhaustion & embarrassment to get them to “back off”?
“The Church challenges the creditability” statement goes only so far, are all these people interviewed lying, when there is film of them being harassed? Seeing picketers outside one’s house recording them, carrying posters bashing them & then following their cars & interfering in their personal lives, it seems to me that what’s been said about being harassed is true.
So now the new game plan is to accuse everyone of “religious bigotry”….because people are speaking out about the injustices within the organization itself. The Catholic Church didn’t get away with sexual abuse of young boys/ children, Any church that would physically, verbally, emotionally abuse ANY church staff needs to be brought to light. Never should it be hidden under the cloak of the excuse of “religious bigotry”.
The journalist & attorney who made their presentations were fantastic. Each and every one of them could back up their claim. The former member who admitted to his wrong doing with Paulette Cooper was a heart breaker, when one is fully immersed into what they truly believe, things can go way too far as it did with Paulette Cooper. He has made his apology, & so sad to see him NOT be able to forgive himself for what he has done in the past.
I highly doubt there is even ONE person out there who has not hurt someone else, either unwittingly OR with FULL INTENT to harm for whatever personal reason. Once we can accept full responsibility for our actions & apologize, only then can we begin our journey of self healing.
As Janet Reitman(sp) said, hearing the young children whom she spoke with not know the language of the outside world, they only spoke in the language of the “inner sanctum” of the organization. What can one expect when one is KEPT forcibly from the outside world. As we all know, when working in a job, every job has what I refer to as “job speak” certain language that only those inside the job will know….foreign to those who don’t work for the company…but it does not prevent us from living outside “the bubble”
Leah as usual, well spoken, direct, compassionate. Mike, your easy manner & true repentance for any of the “wrong” you may have done in the name of the organization comes across very honestly. I am anxious to see the full on Aftermath #2 & am making notes to be able to pull it all together to write more letters.
Thank you!
Well said!
Fascinating but not surprising to hear that the Church reaches out to the lonely, disenfranchised and fringe populations – similar to gang initiation and terrorist recruitment. And just like in those “organizations”, once you’re in, it is difficult to get out. Thank you to the entire team in front of and behind the cameras for exposing the truth in a factual manner. Keep up the good work, can’t wait for Season 2 through………
Over a decade ago I dated a man who was deeply involved in Scientology. We loved each other from the moment we met. Three years into the relationship, I ended it because of the results of his involvement with the “church.” He is/was a very-hard working man. He worked an average of 60 hours a week in an industry that, back then, did not have any competition. He was making very decent money; yet, he never had enough. He owed over 20K to his creditors; he had not visited his family in Mexico because he had no savings, and he was driving a work truck that was just as old as he was. Most of his earnings went into paying for his “courses” at the “church.” He tried to lure me into joining, but I never followed him. Once I saw what the “religion” was all about (money), I told him to get out.
He then told me that if I was not willing to give it a try, he was going to have to “disconnect” from me (because of my criticism of the church). Eventually, I gave up in the relationship. Our life together was not going anywhere. In the three years we were together, I had finished paying off my own debt, had gotten my own place, and had gone back to school and I was not making half of what he was making. He was still the same.
I have no idea how he is doing today, I sure hope he is well and out of that cult. To this day, I still receive mail from them. How did they get a hold of my address to begin with? I am sure he gave it to them. What is creepy is that since then, I have moved at least three times and they always find a way to “update” my address without me having ever responded to any of their correspondence. I am sure they have a way of getting into my DMV or postal records or something to the like.
Scientology is ruining people’s lives and their future. They brainwash them into thinking that they need to keep on working their way up the “ladder” in order to be successful in life when in reality, they are the barrier that keeps their followers from getting anywhere in life. They drain them out of their earnings, their life savings and their dreams. Now that I am taking the time to write, I will also write to my Congressman, and my Senator demanding action against the church of Scientology.
I thought the show was powerful and an appropriate bridge between the first and the second season.
My least favorite part of the show was Stephen Kent’s take on auditing, the use of the meter and what it does to the mind of the individual. I could hardly make sense of what he was talking about. People get something out of the auditing – especially in the beginning – because it’s effective and one can feel better. I know I did and my moral bla bla (whatever he said) was not affected. (The over-the-top use of sec checking and bad auditing can be mentally cumbersome at a minimum and abusive especially these days when it is used to control and manipulate.) But people DO get in because the counseling they get gives relief.
My favorite part of the show was Bryan Seymour and his account of saving that young man from the RPF (which should be banned) and what he along with the Congressman in Australia did to make the church’s front groups accountable for the monies donated to each. We need to do that in this country and I will be writing my congressman and IRS regarding this.
I was also moved to tears with Len Zinberg’s mea culpa. He’s quite an amazing man to be so vulnerable and lay it all out there like he did.
All in all Mike and Leah – what a great thing you are doing. This church and its use of these horrible tactics (policies) to destroy lives and deny people their right to speak out against abuses – whether real or imagined – has to be stopped. And if can’t exist without these policies – well then – that says it all.
What he said about auditing “wins” was crucial and definitely not psychobabble.
Wins are themselves deceitful and destructive to the individual. We should hear more about this.
It is one of the fundamental lies of Scientology.
Thank you.
I think this is absolutely crucial.
“Wins are themselves deceitful”? What does this mean? Do you mean, like having some beers and “feeling better” is deceitful? I don’t get it. How do you know when you are being deceived, and when you are not?
Valov, there’s certainly placebo effect “deceitful” – like patent medicines and snake oil, when treatments are sold with claims of efficacy, but effects come only from belief in the treatment (which can be very powerful, and seem convincing) rather than the treatment itself.
Humans are unfortunately prone to being easily misled on that account, in part due to the cognitive biases to which we are subject. The real way to tell, is through research – the studies on Scientology failed to show anything other than placebo effect, and Marty Rathbun said “In fact scientology never achieved even the scientifically recognized 20 to 30 percent placebo effect in terms of long-term satisfaction.”
How do you think you would you know when something wasn’t just placebo effect? The burden of proof falls on those making claims for Dianetics and Scientology, particularly since the research tends to disprove them.
VVWD!! Outstanding. You and Leah are quite a pair. Aside from the glaring omission of Marty Rathbun, other than a quick video shot, I loved it. Very effective. As MIke knows more that Leah, there are many current S.O. staff members who are great people who are trapped — family, duty, etc. They deserve better. The ruse that David Miscavige is running cannot sustain. I support your attempt to end his reign.
Loved this episode. Stayed up past my bedtime to finish watching it.
I think the focus on the policies, rather than the whack-a-doodle Xenu story, is absolutely the right approach. It comes across not as people making fun of a religion’s beliefs (which, frankly, one could do with any religion), but rather as an investigation of actual church policies and practices, and the harmful effects they have had on actual people.
I’ll be watching season 2 religiously.
Dear Mike,
The show opened my eyes to something that I wasn’t awared of, but more importantly it also open my heart to empathize with the so many victims. You, Leah and specially the victims that come out in the show are very brave. Thank you for sharing ideas of what we can, I honestly felt there wasn’t much other than informed people so that they don’t fall into their trap. All my best to you and your family and hope that your older children will have your strength as well. Sarah
Great Show! The IRS needs to form a group of agents that are “Untouchables” – agents that CofS can’t get to! Somewhere in that great Bureaucracy there has to be a handful of these? It’s not fair to the “tax paying American Citizen” to allow such blatant abuse!
Keep up your good work!
I loved this new episode. You and Leah of course sound so authentic, sincere and well meaning. You are doing an outstanding job, you are creating a better world without the abuses of the Cult of Greed.
Mike and Leah…..nice kickoff last night to Season 2! To see the abuses this cult is getting by with is sickening! The abuse of their “parishioners” is despicable! To see how they bullied and badgered the individuals on the show last night is once again proof that they need to be prosecuted and put away! Maybe they could clean some floors and toilets with a toothbrush!!!!!!! The abuse crimes they are committing and getting by with are deplorable! What religion has cameras, barbed wire fences, and guards? This is a cult led by a total egomaniac who has his minions doing all his dirty work! The followers of this cult are all brainwashed prisoners and walk around downtown Clearwater like zombies! The IRS and FBI and local authorities need to bring them down and prosecute! Their demise will happen…hope sooner than later! Keep up your diligent efforts to expose this cult and its leader!!! They are pathetic when they go after an aquarium and Winter the dolphin because they did not get their own way! Wah wah! Cannot wait for Season 2!
Well said, Mike! I have not seen last nights show I recorded it but I’m going to watch it today.
I watched last night of course. The part I liked the most was the Australian reporter and the involvement of the politician who got things rolling. And when the reporter’s newspaper said we can’t touch this story, the politician stepped up and used his parliamentary privilege to step up and read out the charges in parliament. Wonderful tactic. I also loved that he basically exposed Scientology as a money launderer where they were funneling their money through Australia to avoid paying taxes. It would definitely take a politician who cares for more than his own self interest to stand up in Congress and introduce an Act to strip Scientology of their tax-exempt status. Are there any good people left in Washington?
My favorite part also.
Wow. That was a powerful episode. I’ve got to say, Ms. Cooper is one hell of woman. To suffer that much, and to be that gracious to her tormenter… Yeah, my eyes misted up. Note to scientology – this is what real ethics are like: aggressively fighting injustice while being forgiving of people. More people should know her name.
The focus on Hubbard’s policies was intelligent and not a cheap shot. I expect that Deviant Miscarriage is furious right now.
By the way, if you do not have cable, I highly recommend going to Amazon and purchasing the series. Unlimited streaming and commercial free, and the price is very reasonable.
Mike, This show was, if it is even possible, even better than Season 1, and I thought Season 1 was great. I’m so glad you showed the actual LRH Policy Letters and quoted them in writing. It made it even stronger and more compelling. I applaud you and Leah and each and every one of the professionals who spoke up. And the acknowledgement that Mike gave them for continuing to whistle blow and speak out at the end of the show was so touching. I could tell that it really resonated with the folks who had just told their stories and that they felt relief hearing what you said and your validation of their bravery. I feel the same about you and Leah and thank you for continuing to make yourselves vulnerable by speaking out yet again. Thank you! This was such a great impetus for Season 2.
Enjoyed learning more about this cult. Even tho it made me cry. Will start writing letters to the dept. you listed. We need to keep the heat on. Helps learning about the policys so we can better understand this crazy stuff.
Stay safe! This is scarey stuff.
Take care of yourselves spiritually, emotionally and mentally. I’m sure hearing these painful stories now from the other side of the fence triggers many painful memories. The strength and conviction to not be bullied is a powerful characteristic. Sending you and all departing scientologist guardian angels.
Congrats Mike and Leah on the new season. I’m sure I’ll find a copy out here in Thailand in a couple of days or so. Looking forward to it and just … keep on keepin’ on!
Learned a lot and cried a lot. Just not right how they get away with this. But maybe we can make a difference. Stay safe this is scary stuff!
Always intriguing. I’m just a regular person who didn’t know anything about Scientology. What a racket. I’m writing to the IRS…pisses me off that they get tax exemption, not to mention all the horrible things they do to people…I do think you should talk about some of the “positive things” that happen when you start Scientology, as they do give (sell) you courses on confidence and communication etc…and maybe somehow expose all the charitable things they claim to have done, or all the volunteer work that they spew about with such largeness. I mean, there probably are some things they do to help with like Hurricane Katrina…but instead of thousands of volunteers, there is only a handful…it would be great if there was a way to expose that with some of the actual volunteers themselves to talk about that truth and how it’s propaganda…but I think it’s not that easy to get Sea Org volunteers …they are still there…or in lock up.
The honesty, integrity and commitment from all of you was amazing, my hope is together we can clear Scientology and save all the honest loving people being taken advantage of out of there and making their own “policies”
Grateful to you all for being willing to take on the big bad wolf to save the lambs…
I live right in downtown Clearwater and folks can’t believe the Scientology presence here until you see it for yourself. Watching the lemmings walking down the street in groups and seeing them in the grocery store en masses when they are allowd out on a Saturday is so bizarre. You guys are making a difference by showing the world, and can’t wait for the next season!!!
Wonderful program that kicked off Season 2. Very powerful testimonies- several of which brought tears to my eyes.
The pain so many former Scientologists have been forced to bear is infuriating & heart breaking.
The stories told by tonight’s guests showed such a passion for truth, something which Scientology loves to grind to a pulp, Great work Mike and Leah.
Mike, you have great presence. You speak well too, and I see you as the mainstay of these A&E shows.
My gratitude and thanks to Hurricane Leah, Rindah, and all the guests who were willing to slice open old wounds in the name of truth. Special appreciation to the producers and editors for their stellar work putting this episode together in such a moving yet clear-sighted way.
Season two looks like it will blow even more heads back. My only complaint is that it isn’t starting TOMORROW!
Still watching it here in the west coast.
I want to thank Leah and you and everyone who participated. You are doing the impossible! Kudos to you.
Just saw a clip for Season 2 where you and Leah are discussing sexual assault and Scientology’s victimize the victim approach. Leah asks a very difficult question about your role in those types of situations when you were deeply involved with Scientology and you broke down.
Mike, you are brave. Your past is just that, the past. It is what you are doing with your present that matters. How you are exposing truth from lies. Revealing fraud in the name of faith. Standing by those that have been hurt and fighting for justice. These are the things that matter. Forgive yourself. Move forward. Put an end to this abuse of religion and “church” which is nothing more than mind control and fraudulent use of religion to steal money from desperate people who just want and need to belong somewhere.
I watched the show and could not help but make a comparison to Donald Trump and Scientology. Trump uses the exact methods to intimidate his opponents. Anyone who disagrees is an enemy. Are you certain Trump is not a Scientologist?
Nancy, you may be new to the blog, so I will let you know of Mike’s policy: As moderator, he has said on more than one occasion that he doesn’t want us spewing political rhetoric and getting into politics. That is not what this blog is for. Just wanted to reiterate the moderator’s (Mike’s) previously stated wishes here. I don’t think his policy on politics on the blog has changed since he first said it.
There’s a qualitative difference between misusing this forum to advance some partisan political agenda and drawing parallels between the way that $cn operates and how other authoritarian regimes, groups and leader act. The Trump administration, even in its very brief time in power, has already amply displayed many of the same characteristics that $cn and other high-demand, high-control groups routinely exhibit. So, to draw those parallels between them is not so much a matter of politics as it is a much deeper inquiry into, and exposure of, the cult-like aspects that they share in common, despite their superficial differences.
Truly, if we fail to learn from our mistakes of the past, we will be doomed to repeat them. Keeping tyrants and authoritarian rulers from gaining power is far easier than wresting control away from them once they’ve achieved it. But to be in a position to do so at that time requires us all to be able to see and understand what’s standing right in front of us – an ability that’s becoming increasingly clear with each passing day that a sizable proportion of our countrymen were sadly lacking.
Harpoona, well put.
Some limited comparisons not intended as partisan political jabs, do have their place. Even thoughtful Trump supporters, are critical of, and disappointed by, some of these very same tactics, which ultimately undermine democracy and decency.
On a similar note, one of things that I think is important about criticizing and exposing Scientology, is that it is a particularly blatant example – and thus a useful teaching example – of various sorts of organizational abuses including the use of calculated deception, and indoctrination and control techniques. And, of course, propagandistic use of “alternative truth.”
I think it’s unfortunate that our educational system doesn’t teach people a bit more about proper logical argumentation, fallacies, influence techniques and cognitive biases – just a few who do something like debate or take a course in formal logic get that training. Unfortunately, the religious and commercial establishments have a vested interest in people not really learning to think critically and evaluate. So it’s up to forums like this to help educate people about what they should have gotten in a good logic or life skills course – and to do something about the institutions that are taking advantage of and abusing those who don’t know any better or who fell into a trap.
p.s. Nancy – I don’t think you overstepped the bounds in your short and thoughtful comment – but others were also right to step in and provide a reminder to limit politics here. The commonality between Trump and the policies of Hubbard, probably comes from their both being narcissistic personalities, who among other things tend to see themselves as always right, and to blame and attack anyone who questions or opposes them.
I assure you I am not a political person. As I was watching, something clicked and I realized the similarity. I am not a blogger? Guess I don’t really understand what it is all about. I was just making an observation. Sorry, if I broke some rule. Oooops! I am just a harmless old lady.
Mike, Are you certain this isn’t “Nancy Pelosi”???
Yes
Nancy Lumbrazo! Yes! That is exactly what I was thinking. Anyone who doesn’t agree with him is the enemy. Any publication or news outlet that doesn’t agree with him is “fake news”. This is all just so insane.
Nancy, I recognized the similarities too. Miscavige or Hubbard did not invent these tactics. The Church has gone further by adopting these tactics as official policy written as specific instructions for how it responds to detractors, whether it be a news reporter or a member who chooses to leave the fold. It would serve people well to learn to recognize when these strategies are being used – attack always, deflect attention to “good works,” “spread falsehoods to discredit sources,” “harrass, harass, harass,” whether it be to control the members of a cult or a maintain a political base.
Consider the Texas Representative that reported a gathered group of protesters of his legislation to ban sanctuary cities to ICE and threatened to shoot fellow representatives on the floor of the state legislators ( a very real threat considering Texas has an open carry law allowing people to bring guns into state offices and this man possessed a gun.) These tactics are an attack on freedom of speech, freedom of association and the right to appeal to the government for relief. But this has become the norm.
The show was hard hitting and so well put together. Such a teaser for Season two!!! I am still amazed that in ALL the people that were involved in “operation Freak Out” with Paulette Cooper, there were only two people that ever came to her to apologize, myself and the gentleman you had on the show… That says a lot…
There is more work to do!
Thank you Mike and Leah for taking this on and digging deep, both into yourselves and the people you interview.
nancy
Riveting. The beginning of the show was brilliant. Showing that it is all LRH policy. Loved the guests and each was given ample time to speak. For me, the only confusing part was where the lawyer tried to explain how he finally was able to win his case. But then again, I’m not a lawyer. Loved all the snippets of upcoming shows. They will not be easy to watch. Thank you, Mike and Leah, for continuing to enable others to have a voice. Thank you Mike and Tony for your blogs. Thank you Aaron and many others for your videos. Thank you esteemed guests for being brave enough to share your stories of what $cn has done to you and your families. I am praying we can shut this thing down for good some day in the near future.
Very good article on Tony Ortega’s Blog…http://tonyortega.org/2016/10/22/who-was-responsible-when-scientology-finally-paid-lawrence-wollersheim-a-lot-of-thin-dimes/
For those who beieve we’re living in the End Times, Jesus did say that in those (these?) times, all things hidden will be revealed. Hmmm… Maybe we are.
Mike, words just can’t express. Never a member of CoS, but I’m so thankful for what you and Leah are doing.
A+ Show! The showing of the policy really explains the why,the guest were all very good. Keeping fighting Mike and Leah we will be watching
I have a book called: L. Ron Hubbard, Messiah or Madman? by: Bent Corydon and L. Ron Hubbard Jr. a.k.a. Ronald DeWolf … It says that L. Ron Hubbard Jr. a.k.a. Ronald DeWolf left the organization in 1959… is he still alive? Anyways, thought I’d let you know … that book exposes a lot of the stuff you were talking about tonight … thank you so much for all you are doing to expose this insanity … God bless you as you continue to do more … my love & prayers are being sent to you all… thankyou!!!!
Mr. Dewolf is passed, I’m afraid, but his grandson Jamie DeWolf is alive and well, active in the Scientology protest movement and a pretty damn fine performer too! 🙂
L. Ron Hubbard Jr, known as “Nibs” has long been gone. His grand son Jamie DeWolf has spoken about him some times and there is also an interview probably with Penthouse. LRH Jr said quite a few things about Hubbard being into Satanism, splitting people’s souls and having total control over women.
He died at 57 in 1991.
Shows like Aftermath along with the recent movies, all of the blogs being written by exmembers and of course Tony Ortegas site are doing an incredible job spreading the truth and now its up to the rest of us to help and as Mike says start writing letters and make our voices heard!
Mike that was a great show. I am assuming that the previews of future episode are of mastersons rape cases….I am sure there will be a massive audience tuning into that episode when it airs. Very well done.
Although this probably isn’t exactly what is important tonight, I am in the process of watching on the U.S. west coast…Leah’s dress is STUNNING!!! Needed to be said!
I agree …Its beautiful Leah. Where did you buy it ? Lol…kisses
I agree. Not just the dress – great hair and makeup! Leah looked better than ever. (Yes, I know it wasn’t the point of the show.)
Leah looked awesome!
WOW! POWERFUL! Season 2 looks to be even better than season 1! I commend you, Leah and all the other brave souls for getting the truth out there about Scientology.
You and Leah keep us wanting More. Even though I’ve shed many tears watching I’ll continue to watch and support. Your work is so invaluable. Keep Safe Mike! The World has both you and Leah’s back!!
Much love and respect to you both!
When is the second season going to start? Is there no release date?
March 19th 2017
March 19? Has the second season already started?
No, last night was sort of a preview
A preview for the new season which started a month ago?
It’s obviously a wrong date. I heard Season Two will air in the Fall of 2017.
Do you mean 2018?