The OT VIII success stories circulated by the Freewinds are really lame. No wonder it’s a ghost ship.
Two of them were sent to me recently. And they are notable for what they DON’T say.
They repeat, mantra-like, that OT VIII is “the first actual OT level” (funny, all those other ones used to be “actual” OT levels too) and the supposed remedy for amnesia on the Whole Track. That is a very bold claim. Sort of like “exterior at will with full perceptions” which the L’s are supposed to provide.
One would imagine that someone who had gained the ability to recall everything on their Whole Track (trillions or quadrillions of years?) would have some pretty remarkable things to say.
Well, take a look at this — and this is a “success story” they PROMOTE.
“As Ron stated I did handle my whole track amnesia.” I guess “RC” felt obliged to say that or else they would not have been allowed to attest. Because it is the ONLY thing that is said other than “I completed Objectives,” “The ship is wonderful,” “I worship COB” and “Thanks Ron.”
Really weak sauce — a bland statement that comes across like “RC” is worried that someone might ask for a demonstration of this ability…
And then there is this one.
He (or she) just blathers on with broad generalities about how it’s “mind blowing” and “life altering” and a “gift for me.” This is like a professional success story writer (which by the time you get to OT VIII, you must be) let loose with a grab bag of “success statements” who strung them together in order to be allowed to attest. No mention of handling his amnesia at all — just being “fully in PT” — which is supposed to happen on Objectives.
OT VIII has been a huge disaster since it was released.
In fact, there are more OT VIII’s who have left scientology than remain.
That is a damning indictment of what all that money and sacrifice brings people reaching the pinnacle of the Bridge.
Going on hoping that THIS level will finally be the one the delivers what’s been promised all along… LAME is right!
John Smith says
… Clear …: You’ll have powers and be free of dead aliens soon after this
OT I: *Now* you’re an OT
OT II: *Now* you’re an OT
OT III: *Now* you’re an OT— also aliens
OT IV: *Now* you’re an OT
OT V: *Now* you’re an OT
OT VI: *Now* you’re an OT
OT VII: *Now* you’re an OT
OT VIII: *Now* you’re an OT—you’re at the end rn but get others into this cult so we can take more ~~$~~aliens out
OT IX: *Now* you’re an OT
OT X: *Now* you’re an OT
OT XI: *Now* you’re an OT
Thank you, John Smith. Just a friendly reminder to those who are STILL HOPING…
Sadly, you’ll die HOPING!
I find it amazing that so many believe that what the CoS delivers as OT 8 is or ever could be the OT 8 that LRH developed. Time after time people post about the abuses and alterations of the Tech by the CoS yet don’t apply this same understanding to consider that “Maybe” the CoS altered or misapplied OT 8 as well.
OT 8 is composed of 3 parts according to LRH’s HCOB’s, (not on the net) yet the CoS has only delivered 1 part. There have been several versions ( 3 I believe) delivered on the ship, yet this seems to go unnoticed or unremembered by some. Various “CoS Completions” have discussed what they did on OT 8 while on the ship, yet none of this squares with the ONE HCOB on 8 that found it way onto the internet. This is demonstrative of a lack of diligence in studying the subject, relying on the latest article or posting instead to motivate their remarks. A=A behaviorally. Sorry if this seems harsh. The human race is doomed if this is the manner in which, those with any training in Scientology behave.
OT 8 is a tremendous R/D. One of the best in Scn. BUT, you do have to do all 3 parts. If you only do the last part, which is the one always discussed, you miss out on parts 1 & 2. So only one third of the rundown has been delivered by the CoS, out of sequence at that. Now lets trash Scientology, the R/D and LRH all rolled into one. The CoS has apparently NEVER delivered the complete R/D, from those first few that did it in the late 80’s to the present. This is the reason for the melba toast wins, they didn’t get the full, if any, of the LRH R/D.
Please,Tim, tell me, where are those data coming from ? I’m really after the actual truth. Who said there was 31 versions of OTVIII ? People who did it from 88 till 95 did all the same version, and with golden age some did again OTVIII and it was strictly the same OTVIII. I know what you said is a theory of an auditor in the independant field. It actually make some sense, as the EP of handling the amnesia is not reachable with actual material.
Now there is the “Jesus is a lover of young boy” version, which seems to never have been delivered to anyone except to George White who apparently is coming from another time continuum !!
FG, I hope that you have seen some of the comments and links that Brian has provided. Quite a few people have verified that they did early versions of OT8 with the antichrist and Jesus references.
Yes PeaceMaker but none answe rmy question : how do you audit that level ? The OTVIII series 1 promised a rundown, where is it ? If anyone has done this level, please give details !
FG, ALL L. Con released for OT 8 (as far as NEW processes) was the ONE process to check whether prior past lives encountered in auditing were true or false. That is ALL he released to the Church.
You have to remember L. Con himself didn’t finish OT 7 and he did NOT pilot New OT 8 on ANYONE.
FG, have you ever asked this question:
Why was the man who created OT8 still running BTs at the end of his life?
Cause over life?
Cause over matter energy space and time objective and subjective?
I don’t think so.
The real question is not which was the “one true LRH OT8”.
The real question, and I am surprised people do not bring this up:
Why was Ron still in battle with space aliens after he created OT8?
Don’t you find that a bit disturbing?
I find it as a revelation that the man who said he would free you was a loon and a delusional fraud.
Do these realities not cause a pause to think?
FG, I’m sorry that I don’t have details for you, but I know that there is a lot of discussion in various places about these subjects, including commentary from people who were actually there. It should all be collected and summarized somewhere, but I don’t know if that’s the case.
What I have seen, heard from old-timers I’ve asked about it, and experienced myself when I was on a pilot project, tells me that in general, if there is tech and processes not being delivered as Hubbard wrote them up (or left them, perhaps unfinished) it’s not because something wonderful has somehow been lost. What Hubbard specified was piloted and turned out to be unstable or unworkable, and then had to be revised.
I know that loyalists would like to believe that perfect, powerful tech that delivers on all of Hubbard’s promises flowed from the mind of Ron and it has somehow been hidden or lost. But that’s just not the case, Dianetics and Scientology were a mess of failures and revisions starting from 1950 on, but when Hubbard went off lines and then died, he was no longer around to try to fix his own messes, or to distract from them by introducing some new thing that was supposed to finally do what the previous ones had failed to produce.
FG, the answer to your question is here:
1969 why thetans mock up. it is findable. READ IT.
Tim-S What was delivered, at least at first on the ship WAS what El Con wrote as 8.
Hate to break it to ya. I know Indies have a particularly hard time with this truth. Because it means what everyone else already knows. Which means that you have wasted a LOT of time and money. But, as S. Clemens said, “It’s easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.”
I feel for your “mind set”.
Tim, I’m hoping that some others with more detailed knowledge of the upper OT levels will chime in here, but I tend to discount claims that the problems is just that Hubbard’s tech has been altered, when so many times that has been disproven – including through the accounts of people who were there at the time.
One of the things that I remember hearing about some of the tech developed around the same time, and maybe OT VIII itself, was pilots were tried of the processes – presumably, as Hubbard wrote them – and had produced too many problems and bad results, such as people going PTS (psychotic). That’s in keeping with what I think is a fundamental flaw of Hubbard’s approach, that it is based in part on abreaction therapy (and the related catharitic therapy that Freud and others experimented with) and exemplifies some of the flaws of that technique, which had to be abandoned because it inevitably produced too many bad outcomes even though it seemed to work well in some cases.
Hubbard’s supposed “research” process did not actually produce verifiable results or benefits, but the subsequent testing on human guinea pigs – including under his supervision and auspices, before his death – did indeed uncover which were most obviously harmful and in need of revision.
PeaceMaker. I know the Original Snr. C/S of the ship who trained on the materials with the Snr C/S Int BEFORE the ship was launched. The ORIGINAL level written by El Con is the one with the Anti-christ and Jesus, et al. It was basically just ONE process. Going over past lives ID’s from prior auditing and getting a Yes/No read. Fini.
The Indies cannot accept this and you cannot successfully confront them with this truth.
Below is a link to a conversation about the various OT8s on Marty’s blog.
I disagree with you regarding OT8, the one that everyone wants to distant themselves from.
I will give you circumstantial eveidence based on things we all know about Ron, and have listened or read.
I) On a tape, I forgot which one, Ron jokingly talks about the Prince of Darkness. Referring to the Prince of Darkness (He actually uses the term Prince of Darkness) Ron says with a giggle,”who do you think I am!”
2) He calls Crowley “his good friend” Why would he lie about that? He was never Crowley’s “good friend.”
A liar lies because they see a value in something. Ron looked up to Crowley. That was the value. Ron admired and was a student of OTO. Have you ever seen a picture of the man Crowley? The man was all about power and controlling metaphysical forces. And hated Christianity.
3) Ron hated Christianity
4) Ron hated the great Jesus.
5) The inner light of the soul was never talked about by Ron except to define an implant
6) Parsons and Hubbard were trying to bring a being into incarnation of evil. They were then going to control it and have it so their bidding.
So you see, Ron never had a problem identifying with evil. He could however be repulsed by the good. Jesus was good. Jesus was beyond great.
The original OT8, as discussed on the above link, is not far from what we know of Ron’s appreciation for the dark side.
Just look at what he did to his family. Think about the little boy crying in the chain locker.
I think Ron was actually feeling proud for identifying with the dark side,
As George White suspected; when he was doing 8 on the ship, he felt Miscavige looked like he was freaked.
I believe the Original 8 was as is seen on the internet and reported by people on the ship, doing the first course.
Ron is playing a sick metaphysical polorized split of good and evil.
He thinks he’s “prince of darkness” or Lucifer and hates Jesus.
Oh no……. shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe we need a priest for this shit. Lol!!
George M. White says
Your analysis is accurate.
Hubbard was totally soaked in the darker side of the Occult. This, IMO, is why he eliminated love and virtue from Scientology. In the end, Hubbard wanted control and he would do anything for it. Hubbard only left clues about what was going on in his mind. The OT VIII stuff about Lucifer is the best example. After reading a lot of the Occult that Hubbard probably read, I got the idea that he was hiding the basic operating principles that he used in his own life. He put forth tiny pieces of bait from his imagined god-like position. He really did look down at people. But Hubbard stopped short of Satanism which is whole different side of lower Occult. You could say Hubbard left out the good side of true Occult and developed a darker side from that base but stopped short of extremely low occult.
George, I’m not familiar with the real specifics of Satanism, but I would say that Hubbard’s egoism and utilitarianism, are essentially the same thing, not only “Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law,” but also, I would say, “Never fear to hurt another in your own cause” (paraphrasing from his Code of Honor) – largely the same self-above-all, end-justifies-the-means covertly evil worldview, just without Satan as the focus of worship or an open glorification of evil acts.
I am tempted to refer to Hubbard and his work as neo-satanic – or, perhaps given the actual history of modern Satanism, proto-satanic. Any ideas?
I agree George.
On the other hand, I think he may have experienced some real benevolent understandings. I believe Ron wrote What is Greatness as a sales gimmick because he never lived it. And the album was called My Philosophy. He never followed his own philosophy.
But the writing is beautiful by Ron.
I think as he continued solo auditing he continued to collapse his subconscious mind and thus became delusional.
He invoked the dark side. And the dark side did not let him down.
Brian, I wanted to throw out a couple of ideas in case they were of interest or use. Hubbard’s seemingly sincere benevolence at times, is one of the things that I struggled to understand.
I think the best and most comprehensive explanation is that his benevolent and humanitarian utterances and writings, were just cynical “gimmicks” that he employed to attract more followers, and to keep up an acceptable public image.
It’s also possible that he was truly schizophrenic to at least some extent, a real Jekyll and Hyde. If so, the dark side would be clearly the one that predominated, perhaps because that was the one that he fed.
Hubbard has acknowledged using automatic writing, and it’s possible that is the source of some of this sort of work, his “channeling” an unconscious goodness that, once again, he suppressed otherwise.
The other thing I think we tend to forget about, is all the ghost writers, co-authors, collaborators and contributors who he used, and after having given some minor acknowledgement early on, whose work he took full credit for. Perhaps he didn’t even write the things that conflict with the evidence about how he actually lived his life and treated others.
Great questions Peace Maker. The man is a never ending puzzle.
I think he felt he was doing good in the beginning. Mayo says that. Mayo saw him change.
My view is that Ron’s problem were:
Always looking in the past for answers.
Bowing to no common standard of decency
His desire for liberation and freedom was real, in my view.
But because he led an immoral life and followed the mental pide piper of the emeter; he drove himself insane.
His life of deception slowly eroded his well being.
His last OT legacy was wishing for suicide to free BTs after created OT8.
This last sentence represents the end result of the philosophies Ron lived.
This is the state that auditing BTs brought Ron to.
Brian, thanks as always for sharing your thoughts.
I run across things like Mayo’s account, and then I start to wonder. But then I look back at the Hubbard of the Affirmations, and how he behaved towards his wife and child and business partners a few years after, and see a straight line from the unhinged abuse tyrant of 1950 to the unhinged abusive tyrant of 1970. If he wasn’t somehow schizophrenic, then he was very good at hiding his dark side at times. Perhaps like a good sociopath, he “groomed” Mayo when it served him to do so at first, and what Mayo saw later was not a change but a reveal. You are right that Hubbard is a never ending puzzle, I would be hard pressed to say with any certainty that my theory about this aspect is really any better than yours.
Thinking as I write, I could concede that maybe Hubbard’s auditing combined with a period when things mostly went his way from the mid 50s through the early 60s could have mellowed him out, but that when conditions and circumstances changed he started to regress. In that context it would indeed make sense that perhaps overrunning some things, and taking auditing to extremes like going after endless BTs, he drove himself insane.
I wish we could hash this out a bit more thoroughly, but it’s a complex enough subject that it would be hard to do outside of a real conversation.
Also, since our kind and amazingly diligent proprietor Mike is going to be busy with his other good works, I’m going to try to be more economical in my comments and to avoid extended exchanges.
Brian, thanks for laying that out nicely.
As far as corroborating evidence, there’s also what L. Ron “Nibs” Hubbard, Jr. said about his father’s occultism including ongoing admiration for Crowley’s work, and considering himself like the antichrist. While Nibs may be a questionable source in some regards, what he said about these subjects lines up with and further corroborates the other evidence that you cite.
Thanks Peace Maker, yes, the Nibs angle. What he said about his dad was so unbelievable back then that we all thought he was nuts. Then the Armstrong finding of that box of Hubbard’s affirmations.
Hubbard was that guy who intoned those affirmations. The truth of his character was revealed in those affirmations.
Making men his slaves was Ron’s value. It was what he visualized and affirmed. It is what he accomplished.
I am tossing around an essay that is forming in my mind. It will be called
L Ron Hubbard: Messiah or Hypnotic Operator. I will attempt to connect the dots of Hubbard’s interest in power and the selfish dark arts and the present condition of Scientology.
Ron was a being on the dark side.
What kind of mind would define Jesus as a pedophile?
What kind of mind would consider “love and understanding” Marcabian PR?
L Ron Hubbard’s genius was in the area of PR techniques on Scientologists.
Who he was, his tendencies toward immorality, his tendency towards the worship of power instead of goodness puts him in the category of the dark side.
Some may think I’m wacky for even bringing it up. Criticizing the critic is what Ron did to their minds. Part of Ron’s mind control hypnosis.
I hope to illustrate the intentional deception by Ron. But coupled with that intentional deception is Ron’s delusional believe in his own deception.
He was a liar that ended up believing in his own lies. Thus he audited space aliens unto the end of life. Caught in the web of his own falsehoods that were given power and validity by the emeter and his creative imagination.
The lynchpin that holds this madness in place is a lack of understanding of the true nature of Ron’s dark side.
He gravitated to lower Metaphysical energies.
I believe the man is understood by seeing him as a lower astral entity that got a body and sought as much power and money he could muster.
Ron was not just a normal human being. He had demonic qualities:
1) was a liar
2) wrote Fair Game
3) wrote Bolivar
4) betrayed his wife
5) betrayed his “friend” Mayo
6) imprisoned a young boy in a dark chain locker for days
7) drove Quinten to suicide
8) abducted his own child
9) Sarah feared for her life
10) pistol whipped Sarah
11) almost killed Paulette Cooper
12) destroyed the lives of mission holders
13) chose DM as his emissary of retribution
L Ron Hubbard was a madman who dabbled in the darker side of metaphysics. This, I believe, is the essence of the character of L Ron Hubbard.
Tell me……… what kind of mind would equate love and understanding with make believe evil space aliens????? Marcabs.
Ron was a practitioner of the dark arts. His PR machine, protected by fear of punishment, installed in our minds a Messiah, Matreiya.
Ron was not a spiritual man. Ron was not a good person.
“Do as thou wilt is the whole of the law”
This idea IS the true character of L Ron Hubbard. This Crowley commandment is the essence of selfish ego.
Brian, I was thinking this might be fodder for a piece. Let me share a couple of other thoughts, as briefly as I can.
I think that Hubbard thought that with Crowley and other esoteric works, typically as he thought of everything that had come before, that he was the one who had uncovered the real, specific truth underlying conceptions that were representative or allegorical. Though if Nibs was right, Hubbard still thought that Crowley was so close to the truth, and had such a useful methodology, that his works were still good training material.
It also seems to me that Scientology can itself be seen as an occult system of levels and initiations, with different levels of knowledge – and powers – to be attained, and perhaps a truly secret inner truth at the highest levels. So, typically, Hubbard seems to have believed, and practiced, differently than he taught others; and, similarly, I don’t think we can know what Miscavige believes or practices.
Plus, I’m starting to think that Scientology has to be viewed in terms of a hierarchy, not only with Hubbard’s homo novis above “wogs,” but with non-clear members and staff (including Sea Org) as novices in between them, and then OTs in several levels above, and finally at the top something like “big beings” who are privy to the highest inner sanctum. That is also a hierarch of power and freedom only fully exercised by those at the top, and just as wogs may treat homo novis however suits their ends, the “big beings” can use everyone below them including homo novis as it serves them. And Hubbard’s apparent intense interest in auditing, may not be because he hoped for everyone to rise to full freedom and power, but because he was hoping to cultivate a body of followers of high enough ability to be able to serve his aims, and even take over the wog world for him.
Also, the Jesus as a lover of young boys piece is a typical snide thing of the sort that I suspect that Hubbard picked up from better-read people he socialized with, or from skimming little-known works – as others have cited, and I know from actually having the work, it probably comes from the early 1970s book Secret Gospel of Mark by Morton Smith, the ideas from which might have been circulating after Smith’s supposed late 1950 discovery of a manuscript that includes:
“And straightway, going in where the youth was, he stretched forth his hand and raised him, seizing his hand. But the youth, looking upon him, loved him and began to beseech him that he might be with him.”
That also reflects an obscure but documented controversy or heresy in early Christianity that could have been Hubbard’s source as well, and which shows that the idea that Jesus might have engaged in some of the pederasty common in ancient Greece and Rome is not quite as outrageous as we might view the charge of pedophilia today.
Let me close with a Crowley quote I ran across, that is very KSW: “questions of the Law are to be decided only by appeal to my writings”
Hello all, I would like to explain a little bit more my previous post. Mind charges are very simple to see and to feel. By “charges” I mean some physical energies in your mind that you can usually feel or endure because they impact your body, your emotions and your thoughts. In the every day of your existence you do not pay attention to it. But with auditing you can easely recognize it. With an EMeter it is easy to measure. You can see it on your preclear. And you can see what happens when the charges blow : a great relief for the PC and the electrical flow of the EMeter flows much more easely.
It can be difficult to grasp the reality of this concept without practicing auditing. I brought my husband in Scientology once. He never spent too much time in it ; however he received auditing and some of his bad experiences have been “discharged” – that is to say, he has stop talking about and worrying about. They completely stop bothering him, whereas before his auditing he was regulalry thinking about hese bad memories. The value of auditing, i.e. removing heavy charges, cannot be underestimated. I think this is the point from which Scientology and scientologists have started. When someone experiences that, he can become interested with Scientology because he felt so much relief – and so much truth in it. This is really the starting point.
However my point was, there is a huge gap (and a huge assumption from Ron Hubbard) between discharging bad energies from your mind, and getting super spiritual powers from it. Removing charges helps people, that’s for sure. You can notice that in these Success Stories. We are talking about therapy here. Dreaming of spiritual powers, like the OT8 promises, belongs to the spiritual field at best ; at worst, this is just mysticism, science-fiction or pure fraud. Moreover considering auditing as your only chance to progress in the spiritual field is a trap – in which I think Ron Hubbard has eventually fallen. Auditing is not all – on the contrary. As someone said here, if you want to understand life, you have to live first !
About those ‘physical energies in the mind’ or ‘charges’.
When an object of fear is discovered to be an illusion, that is to say, it is rendered toothless, nothing is ‘discharged’. There is only the ending of the disturbance and a return of the mind to its natural state of silence. Thoughts, particularly fear thoughts, consume energy, they are not energy! When the fear thoughts stop, the energy they were depleting is no longer being depleted and a sense of vitality is experienced. For example, when you discover that you passed a test you were certain you had failed. Or anytime a worry comes to an end.
Referring to unpleasant thoughts as ‘charge’ and ‘energies’ is speaking metaphorically. That may fly in the literature department but not in the science department.
This is question to George White who says he did in 1988 new OTVIII where Hubbard says (not the principal concept by far) that Jesus was a young boy lover. I have read this. Is it HCOB 5 may 1980 Student Briefing starting with :
“By the time you read this I will no longer be occupying the body and indentitiy that you have known as Ron.” That is the beginning of the OTVIII series1.
Because I asked many people who did new OTVIII and I didn’t find one who did this version. I also did new OTVIII in 1989 and it was the one which is supposed to handle amnesia, starting with a CS 53 solo, and then quite a simple process where you check your past life pictures for true or untrue. It’s actually strange as it deconstruct completely what you thought was your time track. This is the OTVIII that 100% of people I know did.
The OTVIII series 1 of 5 may 1980 seems to be a hoax. Now it very much look like the style of Hubbard, but there have been so many forgeries of Hubbard. But mostly, admitting that this is a real Hubbard writing it’s pretty much incomplete. There is a OTVIII series 1, but was there other bulletins ? OTVIII series 2, 3… ?
Will you be so kind to explain me how you have audited this OTVIII ? What process, auditing question, tech ? I am very much that this level was ever delivered on the Freewind. I know people who did OTVIII on the maiden voyage and if they had audited that they would have looked quite amazed and they didn’t. They just said it’s a short enjoyable level, but not anything amazing at all.
Please describe how you audit the version you did of OTVIII.
If psyches are from Frasec
All critics are criminals
Ron is Matreiya
No Hawaii 75 million years ago
Family bonding is the GE
Auditing cures leukemia
Auditing cures arthritis
Smoking is dramatizing volcanoes
Vegetarian is dramatizing being eaten alive
Sea Org members are the reincarnation of loyal officers
Ron is the only being in the history of forever to find the “only truth”…………
Why is it difficult to bridge that gap less gap that Jesus was a pedophile or Ron is Lucifer?
My opinion is that to accept these as true would mean the commodore was a loon.
And that would mean that we devoted our whole lives to a loon who was a liar.
That we sacrificed our lives to a madman.
I see no difference between the madness of “psyches” have a home planet and are born on earth to destroy freedom for all and I, Ron, am Lucifer.
To not see this, in my view, is a denial of the truth of Hubbard and the need to protect the marketed image of Ron that you have installed in your head as the truth.
And………. the man who you say does not sound like Ron on original OT8 wished for suicide to free BTs.
It’s all in the same category: madness and delusion.
And the prison of belief.
And this thread was started by me on Marty’s blog. Other people who also did the original OT8 chimed in.
I hope this helps.
Thanks for that link. I read it a while back, but it’s interesting to go back to.
I hope that someone somewhere is keeping track of the testimonials about the various revisions of OT8 and their exact contents. I did a quick search online and couldn’t really find anything along those lines, thought Wikipedia has a bit of information, and mentions a wikileaks release that apparently included multiple versions of OT8.
Scroll down to OT 8. This is the stuff George said he read on OT8 in 88.
I meant scroll down to “OT8 series 1” for the Ron the looney tunes.
Brian, it si because “It’s easier to fool people than to convince them they have been fooled.”
So true. We get stuck in our stories. The stories that we let into our minds as absolute fact that bypass our innate freedom to reason. Because we love the stories more than reality.
Because reasoning and scrutinizing, seeing and contemplating, were outlawed by Ron by threat of punishment; we stay true believers.
When you’ve been piling on the superlatives for years and you’ve already reported your dynamics expanding to infinity and other jaw-dropping astoundments there isn’t much virgin territory remaining. At this point you should already be a radiant example of fulfilled human potentiality! But you really do need to report something stellar when you’ve just completed New OTVIII, the process that’s supposed to deliver enormous transformative effects on your psyche. It’s supposed to give you, if not bounties of joy and wonderment, then fan-fucking-tastic memory capabilities extending beyond the trillions of years!
Of course it goes without saying it does no such thing. It DOES provide you with the raw materials by which you may exercise your skills at self-deception and lying to others. Reading lists of commands merely triggers thoughts and the simultaneous neurological impulses which read on the meter. You will get the very same results if you replace the OT materials with a phone book, dictionary or spy novel.
When somebody announces that the emperor is wearing no clothes, that breaks the spell for most people but there are a few who just want to continue to believe. They are like the pubescent teens who, being afraid of growing up, defiantly hold on to the pastimes of their childhood.
Auditing removes charges from the mind, and that’s all it does. I met recently some OT8 and I am sure there is something special with them : less or maybe no mental charge, so they feel relased, they feel better, they have the feeling to be more powerful, to be more robust, to be more direct in their intention. That’s all auditing does: giving one the feeling he can do everything. But is he really better ? Does he act better ? Is he more humble ? more generous ? is he kinder or more involved with people ? Absolutely no. Ron Hubbard made the assumption that, by removing blocks in the mind, one becomes perfect. But this was just his assumption. In reality one has been released from mind charge. That’s all the EMeter registers ; that’s all the auditing remove. Point. Is it worthy ? Sure ! That’s a lot, but that is not so much tough.
centimental, I would say that what you describe is typical of anyone who has done a lot of good mental and emotional therapy, or some other practice like meditation.
The other thing that I think has to be asked in relation to Dianetics and Scientology, is to what extent does the organization just run a long process that selects for people who already have or are on their way to having certain qualities – and discards those who do not have the requisite qualities? Similarly, sports teams don’t just make great athletes out of anybody off the street, they select for people with the right natural abilities who also happen to be particularly dedicated to succeeding in that particular endeavor, and give them some coaching – and along the way, cut those who aren’t performing up to their standards.
I suspect that Scientology does less than you might think to actually produce the results, and more to just selected those who already have, or would have on their own, achieved certain personal qualities.
“Auditing removes charges from the mind,…” I’m not so sure that statement can be said to be true or not true without putting it in common language. What is “charge”? Is not ‘charge’ merely an undesired emotional response to a perception whether that perception is objective (the face of the lover who jilted you) or subjective (the thought of that lover).
Translated in terms of our common understanding we could then say, “Auditing removes undesired emotional responses to perceptions”. Is that true? Maybe, in a limited way. People who have received innumerable hours of auditing over the years show no evidence whatsoever of having less undesirable responses than their non-scientology counterparts. By all observations they are equally susceptible to peevishness, jealousy, anger, resentment, fear etc. Perhaps even more so. So-called, ‘charge’ tends to fade over time and that fading can be facilitated any number of ways. It’s just a matter of resolving in your mind something that was unresolved. Adopting a smart, grown -up attitude is all it takes for some people.
In my opinion, the sense of being more powerful that scientologists seem to convey comes from the believe they have knowledge superior to that of others (that was me back in the day). When they are put in doubt of that false believe they become quite nasty. The whole facade of false confidence crumbles on the spot.
Centimental: “Ron Hubbard made the assumption that, by removing blocks in the mind, one becomes perfect. But this was just his assumption. In reality one has been released from mind charge. That’s all the EMeter registers; that’s all the auditing removes. Point. Is it worthy? Sure!”
The point you make very good. Many modern day spiritual teachers now recognize that negative mental charge, or “shadows” as they’re sometimes called,” need to be addressed as well as practices such as meditation. They’ve seen that both approaches are needed in a path to enlightenment.
marilidi, negative charge or “shadows” are ancient concepts used in several of the sources from which Hubbard plagiarized ideas for Dianetics and Scientology. Carl Jung popularized “shadow work” for western audiences, but the concepts are addressed in some ways in Christianity, were known in western esoteric schools, studied in Theosophy (see particularly Blavatsky’s The Secret Doctrine – precursors or sources of many of Hubbard’s ideas are there, as well), and was notably well developed in Tibetan Buddhism. Brian could probably speak particularly well to the subtleties of how it has long been treated in Buddhism in general.
I agree Marildi. In the world of spiritual practice they say,”self inquiry”. Using the discriminating intelligence to understand the nature of mind.
The discriminating intelligence does not need the past to understand things though, as understanding ideas, that happen in the present are what hold stuck karmic patterns in place. It does come up from time to time in meditation; the past.
If someone has deep problems, mental problems; in my lineage those folks are asked to see a therapist. And in some cases if the mental problems are severe they are asked to put a pause on meditation until things resolve.
That is what Scientology is to a great degree; a Metaphysical Freudian Therapy.
Auditing is a linear time process like any therapy. It’s a beginners level entry into the inner world.
Meditation is not a linear time experience.
In Scientology there is an end to the procedures because Scientologists think that Ron was the only being to ever find the truth. And in Scientology the end is the disappointing arrival at OT8.
In meditation there is no end as consciousness and knowledge is ever expanding.
Scientology talks about “your infinity.”
They have no idea of what they are talking about because auditing the past and being obsessed with time will only keep you looking in the past to understand the present.
The other downside to Ron’s procedures is that he loads delusional ideas into his processes that booby trap true discriminating intelligence.
You can’t learn weight loss from the fat man:-)
I Yawnalot says
“They have no idea of what they are talking about because auditing the past and being obsessed with time will only keep you looking in the past to understand the present.”
Excellent point Brian! I’ve been chomping at the bit for sometime to get that type of concept understandably across. For if you don’t get that, you’ll assign yourself, or worse be assigned by a fancy worded, high pressured sales pitched, false Bridge the never ending task of creating more and more introversion to seek the answers you desire on how the mind works and influences you. At a point Hubbard had people say, “gee thanks, see ya!” and walked out the door quite happy. A couple of fellows I knew back in the 80s were off on a semi, if not permanent win breaks doing old OT4. FN’d at everything they did, but they were happy as clams to get a life. They occasionally turned up at the org to help out but when the regging bs got to plague proportions they disappeared. If there’s an EP to Scientology processing it’s just that – “thanks, see ya around,” and go knock yourself out having a life. Not commit to a miserable existence being a slave to a system that doesn’t give a hoot about you, only money!
Hubbard knew this… but it’s becoming a little more than evident, EPs as stated aren’t obtainable by auditing/training alone, you need to live a life of your own choosing on your own terms. Scientology if it has any value at all has to be something you ‘once’ did or you do because YOU honestly want to. The earth is going to blow up tomorrow so sign up today and take responsibility for it type hype is bullshit and killed it off quicker than anything else – it turned the SO, management, registrars & execs completely criminal!
Brian: “I agree Marildi. In the world of spiritual practice they say,’self inquiry’.”
Yes. Byron Katie calls in simply “inquiry.” Thanks for the ack and duplicating what I was saying.
You are welcome ❤
The beauty of Byron Katie’s ‘inquiry’ is it allows the practitioner to arrive at the knowledge that all psychological, emotional suffering is the result of believing our thoughts which are made of nothing substantial at all! What can a thought do to you? It can’t do anything to you unless you believe the thought. Thoughts are just noise, some are pleasant and some unpleasant. When we break the habit of believing our thoughts, and not just the bad ones but ALL of them, we liberate ourselves from a great tyranny.
Scientology on the other hand insidiously exacerbates that tyranny by making us see our thoughts as having substance. They have ‘perceptics’, ‘charge’, ‘mass’ and ‘intention’ (which can even affect physical matter!) and that there is an infinite WHOLETRACK of that crap within us which we are carrying around and WE MUST GET RID OF IT!
Per Ms. Katie’s inquiry, you would ask, “Can I know absolutely that I have a wholetrack full of ‘charge’?” and of course the answer is, “No, I can’t know that absolutely”. It’s just a thought. Then you ask this: “Who would I be if I didn’t have that thought?”
centimental, you owe me a keyboard. You should do a stand up routine with that material.
Out of context, but today begins in Mexico the series of Lea and Mike Rinder under title: “Slaves of scietology”. The DM empire continues to crumble
George M. White says
I did the Original OT VIII in 1988 and it was a disaster. Three of my closest friends died within ten years.
Hubbard should have never messed with the Occult. He did not know what he was doing. He copied a lot that he thought would help in Scientology like the anti-Christ and Lucifer. Hubbard never got the even the Occult correct. How could he get OT VIII right?
Miscavige is plain ignorant. Truth Revealed is simply that “ya gotta believe”. It’s that simple – plain old faith.
Every time I read about Hubbard throwing on a pyramid hat, lighting a candle, and spewing out “magick” words from his rotten-toothed slit in his wide smug head, I get a sick feeling in my gut that tens of thousands of people have swallowed the imaginations of this sick individual, hook, line, and sinker.
It’s time for everyone within scientology to come to a realization: your leader was very, very wrong about everything. And to the practicing “squirrels”, anything you might have felt was positive about Hubbard’s teachings was undoubtedly stolen from someone else’s teachings.
You don’t need that cult-founding conman.
George M. White says
In the end, what got me angry was his attitude of superiority. He treated me like an idiot giving out his little pieces of bait. All he had to do in 1972 was be honest. In truth, he had no answers. But he could not say that. He kept saying that he had to do more “research”. On the original OTVIII, he tells me to audit the GE. In the beginning, he said you did not need to audit the GE. So he reverses himself not even caring about the path he made you follow.
Hubbard needed material for a religion so he just got a few large occult volumes and copied out what he wanted. He did not care if he was contradicting himself. But the biggest scam was his assumption of “ownership” of Buddhism. Imagine this fat guy as the Buddha. It was a total, total scam.
Hubbard’s OT VIII was supposed to restore memory and lift amnesia on the whole track. When I got in the secure room on the Freewinds, I got a document in which Hubbard announced himself as the anti-Christ. That really helps in lifting amnesia. Hubbard was an ego maniac. All he did on the original OT VIII was stroke his own ego by telling us about his imagined control of the entire universe.
Hey George, thanks for chiming in. Good to hear from you. I responded to one of your posts to me but Marty stopped posting.
Your experience with original OT 8 is an essential puzzle piece. Maybe Aftermath will have you on. Your voice in this is important.
My favorite angle to unmask Ron is his wish for a suicide electro shock emeter to kill off his body and free BTs.
“I am Lucifer” “I want to kill myself to free space aliens”
These thoughts came from Ron. How could he still be considered a wise man by people who know these facts?
Hypnosis/prison of belief.
Brian, I 100% agree. George, you have a unique perspective on Hubbard that the world needs to see.
It sounds like you interacted with him and sensed his over-inflated self image of superiority. Can you expand on his flip-flopping on auditing the GE?
And assuming ownership of the Buddha??? Like, what the fuck? Sounds like his psychiatric prescribed pharmaceuticals might have been kicking in full stop. What a hypocrite.
Mike Rinder, any opinion on this?
George M. White says
As far as flip flopping on the GE, I researched it as far back as possible. Hubbard truncated the Occult teachings that he copied. He took pieces of the Kabballah that he really liked such as the idea of the thetan. He sort of invented the idea of the GE out of 20th century science before DNA was discovered. So he was literally trapped by his religion. He had a spirit and a GE. He did not know enough to connect the GE to DNA. But the real problem comes in when you try to explain the different sexes with the GE. He had to invent all sorts of things like theta electrical charges to do it. Also, in the Kabballah, which he copied, they deal with the physical side as part of the overall early package so you don’t have Hubbard’s problem. When he got to OT VIII, he obviously noticed that the GE was a more vital spirit. Hence the auditing. But it all comes down to Hubbard’s basic misunderstanding of the Occult basis.
As far as the Buddha is concerned, there simply are not enough Buddhists in the US to make a difference. It is absurd to think that Hubbard was the Buddha. He claimed ownership based a lot of false assumptions. But that is another story.
This stuff is high Theology. The average person listening to TV needs to be spoon fed emotion or simple logic.
George M. White says
Great to hear from you Bro. I think the day when we shall meet is approaching.
I have been doing a lot of research of my own into Hubbard’s Occult background. I got to the point where I could see his hidden insecurity. He used the aura of the Occult to sell his game. It was all about his own ego and the self portrayed glory. People such as myself with a Catholic background had a huge gap in understanding religion. We were never able to read the Occult books. Hubbard, on the other hand, read them extensively. He assumed the attitude of the Occult but hid his true sources. The Viet Nam war was the final event that really sold Hubbard. He offered an alternative to the insanity of Lyndon Johnson. I recently read a few articles and I remember some of this. Preachers in the USA were railing against the atheistic Buddhists who were all supposed to be Communists. At least Johnson ordered no political discussion from the churches.
So myself and my friends are all vulnerable. I go into the Army and end up in Korea. When I come back, the entire country is in flames about the war. So what is wrong? I’m now a veteran with no support from my country. Hubbard attacks the government and I stand by during Snow White. Hubbard falsely claims to be a war hero from WWII. You get the picture of Scientology that I have. Hubbard has paralysis of the tongue and won’t talk about the fact that he copied most of the religion from books that I could not read. Hubbard runs out of gasoline on OT VIII. He contradicts himself and writes like he is king of the universe. Amen.
George, it’s very interesting to see your thoughts on Hubbard and the occult.
I don’t know if you’ve noticed, but I’ve shared some of my thoughts on the topic in a number of comments that I’ve made. The more I find out about what Hubbard was doing at the higher echelons of Scientology, the more that I think I see his occult influences influencing how he organized things, such as setting up the “bridge” – and especially the upper levels – rather like an initiatory system of different levels where different truths are revealed.
I grew up in a family of old theosophists and freemasons, and besides some experience of my own in an esoteric school, had some familiarity with the occult in general and with Aleister Crowley in particular. So I had a very different frame of reference than you did in coming to Scientology, which is probably why I quickly concluded that Hubbard didn’t have enough new to offer to make it worthwhile devoting a lot of time to his system. I know that Hubbard borrowed from some of the sort of self-help, personal management and practical wisdom systems that had been more widespread before the Depression than most people would have known about even by the time you were growing up, but your story reminds me that many people would have come to Scientology with a background that gave them no context at all to understand the esoteric or occult influences either. I come from a bit younger generation from you, and assumed that everybody knew at least a bit about Crowley, who is one of the vignettes in the collage of figures on the Beatles’ Sgt. Pepper album, but even then many people probably would not really have known enough about the subject to make connections to Hubbard’s work.
So I think that L. Ron “Nibs” Hubbard, Jr. was probably more or less right about the occult being sort of the inner highest level teaching or operating basis of Scientology and its leadership, even if he may have sensationalized that a bit. To me it explains a lot that otherwise doesn’t make sense, which at least makes it a good working theory.
I’d be very interested to hear any of your further thoughts on the subject. I don’t have time right now to restate some of the details of my view, that I’ve previously made in other comments.
George M. White says
Yes I have noticed some of your other posts. You had the background that I lacked. I just drank up the Kool Aide because I could not define him.
It has taken me years to see him properly.
I now believe that he used the Occult to organize Scientology in a very big way. Reading Blavatsky, for example, shows a lot of links.
But I also now believe that his personal life and his actions were soaked with the Occult. He used anything he could find. This man was breathing the Occult. He just hid it so well.
But last of all, I now believe that he did not understand deep Occult. He was using only what he liked for ego building. Everything – OT VIII, affirmations, he desire to leave an imprint on history – all supported and drawn mostly from 19th century Occult basics.
When you are in LA George give me a ring.
George M. White says
I am thinking about a trip to LA. It might be a good way to bring the OT VIII and the Occult material to a head.
If you find yourself in Florida, give a ring. I am about 25 miles from the Flag land base.
In response to George (not sure where this comment will end up). And to all those who died while on the upper levels, it must have been awful, sincerely, being stuck having to blame your deceased friends for not reaping the benefits promised. It was either that or blame the tech and those thoughts were treasonous, right?
I did not grow up in Scientology but I did grow up in a fundamentalist religion . If a teen or older died without being “saved” they were considered lost forever. How sad for their families and friends facing such judgement.
I’m happy to feel free now, and I wish the same happiness for all those free of such oppression in the guise of religion.
George M. White says
You got the feelings described and cornered. All I can say is that it was brutal for many years. At first, I went with Hubbard and sort of blamed these people for not knowing his tech. I was numb and lacked real empathy. The empathy that I did have was on the surface. I tried to distance myself from the pain. When my FSM died only two years after OT VIII, I realized that her cancer developed from her doubts about Scientology. I could not believe this remarkable woman was gone at 47. This was in 1991. I went into a shell for many years and tried to sort out this thing called Scientology. I lost touch with everyone because I wanted isolation. When I learned of my second friend’s death, I could not even face it. By that time all thoughts of treason were long gone. I clearly saw the damage from Hubbard and it was ugly.
I freed myself from Scientology with many years of religious study. I started at the bottom and worked my way back up. Now I see him for what he was. He wanted to be Occult but he wanted to hide that he copied it . He changed the Occult into Scientology to take ownership but he failed due to his personal limitations. He ended as he should have in multiple contradictions – i.e affinity but no love, some spirit but no soul, some soul but no spirit. etc. That’s how I remember him.
Hi George M. – I want to post this simple definition of occultism since I think some people equate it with being evil.
occultism – noun – 1. belief in the existence of secret, mystical or supernatural agencies. 2. the study or practice of occultism – dictionary.com
So by that definition people who are engaged in a practice deemed occult would not necessarily be evil. I’m sure some of what you’ve studied in Blavatsky and Crowley would be considered odd, but not evil.
P.S. As an aside, I’m not a Trump zealot – lol – I presented myself that way on Marty’s blog for the purpose of conversation. marildi says I had her fooled – laughter
Thanks for the write up above on your post scn experience. 🙂
Richard, thanks for adding that clarification. Fundamentalists, and those who don’t understand the subject, would say that all of the occult is black magic or Satanism, when the subjects merely overlap – much that is occult, is not black or evil. Even Tibetan Buddhism, in particular, is somewhat occult – I have a very fine thangka, or hanging scroll painting of a deity (the Tibetans have many, in contrast to most other Buddhists), that is actually supposed to have its attached silk veil left hanging down to cover it unless it is being viewed by those initiated to a high enough level.
What I think can be said to be distinct about Hubbard’s work and its occultism, which follows from what he took from Aleister Crowley’s OTO, is that it is egoistic, glorifying the individual ego, and holding its interests as the defining basis of ethics and morality; and it is utilitarian, believing that the end justifies the means. That is indeed virtually the definition of evil, and all the great evils of human history have been committed by people, groups, and ideologies that were essentially utilitarian – and usually lead by those who are egoistic, as well – and believed that they could do whatever was necessary to other human beings to serve their ends.
George M. White says
“What I think can be said to be distinct about Hubbard’s work and its occultism, which follows from what he took from Aleister Crowley’s OTO, is that it is egoistic, glorifying the individual ego, and holding its interests as the defining basis of ethics and morality; and it is utilitarian, believing that the end justifies the means. ”
Agree. It is even possible to trace it word for word. You can look at Crowley and Blavatsky’s work and find the exact places where Hubbard substituted his ego for the Occult. I sat in utter astonishment when I realized that he seriously did just copy out what he wanted.
That’s a nice, clear elucidation, PeaceMaker. Thanks
George M. White says
Hi Richard, Thanks!
After studying a lot of Blavatsky, I have also realized that basic Occult is not evil. In fact, Blavatsky suggested that the definition of evil arose after the Council of Nicea in 787 AD to bring the troops in line.
You had me fooled on Trump. I was going to write a book about him in regard to our days in high school together, but my press agent/ghost write quit. Strange situation now.
Hi George – In what is perhaps a cultural civil war, the presentation and consideration of opposite extremes might have some benefit. We’ll see.
Another reason for my post was that the portrayal of Crowley’s sex magic rituals in the HBO documentary “Going Clear” might lead some people to believe that all Scientologists are or were devil worshipers or something. Oh well – I still have enough hair to cover my horns.
George M. White says
In the Occult, we are faced with a big PR problem. It is probably more severe than the COS. People associate the Occult with Devil worship and all sort of animal stuff. My good friend keeps me posted on Satanism in Europe which is now centering on CERN, the atomic guys. The real Occult is actually just about nature.
Hubbard made a fortune by protecting himself from the lower Occult ideas and presenting a useless hybrid.
I debated the issue a long time. He never duplicated the Occult yet he tried to change it and promote it with his own ideas. He rejected the real Occult and tried to build something on its base. Thus all of the contradictions in Scientology. Anyway, that’s where it all is now.
Gus Cox says
OT VIII has been available for what, 30 years? Or pretty close to that. Still no IX or X… I’ll bet more than a few of the first OT VIIIs have “dropped the body” waiting for their next levels.
It’s gotta be a real letdown realizing that you made it to the top of the bridge and still can’t recall any of your experience from all those past lives.
Once the initial high wears off, I guess that’s why so many OT VIIIs leave.
“To learn who rules over you, simply find out who you are not allowed to criticize”
Terra Cognita says
Brian: Nice quote, man.
Oh my, look at that; a starving, dehydrated lost desert dweller.
Looks like an oasis off in the distance. All of our problems will be solved when we get there. Water for all!!!
Oh no, the oasis is further than I thought. Must keep on moving towards the oasis.
Look, there it is! One day we will arrive. My knowingness knows with big knowing that will will arrive while never arriving.
Part of the insidious nature of the ever fading and never attainable states, is the make believe Scientologists assume as spiritual powers and states of being because the grade chart says so.
“THAT’S IT!………JOE SCHMOE HAS JUST ATTAINED OT 8”
Mr. Schmoe stands up with a great feeling of vicotries and says:
“I’d like to thank Ron for helping me to know knowingness with full knowing. My affinity has more knowing in it than previous knowings of affinity. That means I have more affinity for affinity. It’s really really good.
Never before in one hundred gazzillion years has my havingness been so full of having.
My postulates stick like never before. My postulates are full of postulated stuff that help me postulate like no postulate ever on the whole track. ITS AMAZING!!!!
I now have the ability to deny myself the awareness that I have no super abilities.
And so I think I do, and Ron says I should, my friends know I finished OT 8 so I probably have magic powers but let’s move on and talk about something else.”
Standing ovation and course room smiles abound as Joe Schmoe walks out of the course room and fights with the feeling that he is still the same person as before all of this.
But if he dares to judge and scrutinize, he will lose family, friends and jobs.
And so, hip hip hooray!!! Thank you Ron.
Thank you for helping me to know what I know, even though it is not true. Such is the power of Ron’s teachings.
Brilliantly written “cognition”, Brian. I laughed A LOT! And I keep thinking “people pay real money for this drivel?”
🙂 it cracked me up too
Geez, where do I sign up for this?
you can just email me your bank account routing numbers and I’ll fill you in.
The future of earth depends on you parting from your money.
Don’t worry. It’s only MEST. You are a big being. I’ll help you. Just send your info to Mike. All of mankind awaits your money.
Blown Away Wog says
Doesn’t OT VIII also lead to a lot of people having psychotic breaks? Seems to me the higher up the bridge the more likely you are to flip out.
and we were to believe that Hubbard ‘causatively’ left the planet, his tech, and all the fate of mankind in the hands of “pre-OTs”, as VIII was not even released at the time of his ‘departure’.
He did not leave the SO in the hands of OTs. There were none, it wasn’t released yet. We just had pre-Ots. No heads up on what he was planning. No hat write up, no farewell lecture. He blathered on a thousand taped lectures but couldn’t be bothered for one short goodbye tape.
Gee, you’d think he must have been in an awful hurry. Or doped to the eyeballs.
and I agree with all the comments about the OT VIII objective type wins. Higher ARC, in PT, willing to validate self, yawwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwn.
We got into Scn to become super beings at cause.
instead… my spirit animal became, “lemming”.
Off the top of my head, here’s the “success story” I wish I could have submitted when I finished 8:
“I am so happy to be done with OT 8. The last week on the ship has been great because I did OT 8 very quickly and now I know I can go home. Felt kind of good to do it. It was fun; a short and sweet session or two. Don’t know much to say about it except I felt really big. But mainly I’m just so happy to know that now I can go home. The other part of my two-month stay here has been absolutely horrible. I will never be back here again. I’m sick of you guys badgering me for money. I’m sick of having my programs padded with auditing that I had to pay for unexpectedly and did not want or need. The sec check was way too long and completely unnecessary. How evil do you guys think people are when they have just come from Flag finishing 0T 7. I guess you really don’t trust your staff at Flag to make sure people are clean before they get here. After all, I just finished tons of sec checking at Flag. Or maybe it’s just a way to make more money. Somehow I think that’s it.
“The biggest question I ask myself is ‘Why in the hell do I want to be part of this church that dictates what I need to do to participate and what I need to do to contribute monetarily. Who in their right mind would decide to want to be part of a religion like this!’
“Not me. When I walk off the ship I will never be back. And I hope you guys leave me alone because that’s all I want. I just want you to leave me alone and don’t contact me any more about what I need to do because I’m now OT8 or the “briefings” that I need to go to in order to give you more money. Just leave me the hell alone. I am done with you.
“PS: You told me to be sure to thank David Miscavage in my success story. Well, fuck you. I don’t want to thank him. Ever since he’s been in charge of this church it’s been a cluster fuck. I’m out of here”
Your TA is floating. You are going home.
McCarran, I loved your success story. I saw no exaggerations about the good or the bad. You said your win was that you “felt really big” (hope that has continued for you!) and you’re honest enough to still give it that credit. As for the bad, you were completely straightforward without being petty or wallowing in self-pity.
Just plain truth and integrity on your part. My compliments.
Harpoona Frittata says
M, I truly hate to be the one to break it to you here, but Mac’s entire “suck-cess” story was satirical, including the part about feeling really big. What was being satirized there is the hilarious tendency of these Oatee completion success story writers to gush about the most generic and non-specific “wins” imaginable. Why not just say it was all “really, really nice” for all the specificity and meaning conveyed by them?
Why is it seemingly so impossibly difficult for you die-hard Hubbardites to get that when $cn makes a specific, objectively verifiable claim about the abilities that are supposed to be gained by every single person who completes a particular level (e.g., full whole-track recall on OT8; stable exteriorization with full perceptics on the L’s), yet not one single person can demonstrate those abilities, that the claim is false? Worse still, because people pay good money on the basis of those false claims, that makes the entire matter a case of criminal fraud!
Why is this soooo hard to understand and acknowledge!!? What would be lost for you personally if you were to confront the fact head-on that OT 8 just does not confer on those who complete it any of the very clearly stated gains that it’s advertised and sold as providing? Rather than emerging into the Clear Theta Clear sparkling sunshine of “Truth Revealed,” these poor duped and defrauded $cilons have been subjected to the “Truth Reviled”. Please stop shilling for this demonstrably fraudulent group, with their manifestly criminal motives!
“M, I truly hate to be the one to break it to you here, but Mac’s entire ‘suck-cess’ story was satirical, including the part about feeling really big.”
Well, I beg to differ with you, HF. She was very clear as to what was good and what was bad. That’s what I was complimenting her on. She didn’t feel compelled to say nothing but bad and not mention the good that was there in spite of everything. Perhaps you’ve never experienced feeling really “big,” but I have. And it does have meaning.
As for the rest of your post, it is a Straw Man argument. I’m sure you can do better than that.
Idle Morgue says
I would like to indicate some bypass charge on your entire Bridge experience.
Your tone arm flew off the meter.
Terra Cognita says
McCarran: It’s uncanny how similar your wins on OT 8 were to all of mine at the lower levels.
Make sure to thank David Miscavige…
That says it all.
Thank you David Miscavige, for the fact the world is shining its light on you, for the fact that Leah Remini’s A&E show is being renewed for a second season.
Thank you David Miscavige, for the fact that your top executives have abandoned you and set up exposing blogs of all your (no pun intended) short-comings…
Thank you David Miscavige for running this once growing “religion” into the dust pile of history where it deserves to be…
Thank you David Miscavige for beating and berating your friends in the “church”, for they will never forget what you have done, you fucking child.
Thank you David Miscavige, for you have turned a page in your life and you know the sufferings that are coming to you… may you atone for your crimes and come out of this, at the end, a humbled and better person.
When the poster sez “donate now for OT8 & ensure your future”…is that meaning give $$ now for your lessons later or are you donating for someone else to be OT8?
Is CoB a VIII?
Old Surfer Dude says
I believe he thinks he’s a natural clear. So no courses or auditing. He’s already perfect.
Chris Shelton has commented that DM is an OT VII, not an OT VIII
JP, you’re right, now that you mention it, I have heard that, for what it’s worth – but also, I’ve heard that he hasn’t actually been audited by anyone for decades. It does make sense to me that he might do a level that involves self-auditing, and the presumption would be that either he skipped to that level, or that he did the previous levels that usually require auditing through self-auditing.
I suspect that Miscavige, and Hubbard before him, self-audit as “big beings” in order to increase their ability and power, in a way that is rather different from the auditing that their followers are subject to. That would actually be in keeping with Scientology’s construct of “gradients” and the organization of the bridge as truth gradually “revealed,” similar to occult initiatory systems, where no one knows what the teachings are at the next level much less the top, and the upper teachings may have very different from what is apparent at the lower levels. It also fits with Hubbard considering himself above everyone else, and I think Miscavige has taken on that mantle.
Right JunkPhrases, why would he waste time on the scam? He figured it out by 7. NOT the brightest bulb in the refrigerator as it took him that long. But, smarter than many others.
I Yawnalot says
What, you mean there’s a whole stack of little Davy’s entities running around looking for bodies???!!!!
Scotty get that warp drive back on line! NOW!!!
Barbet, apparently not, CoB appears to have only had some lower level Scientology training long ago.
I have wondered about Miscavige and his training levels. I have concluded that it is most likely that he believes that he is something like a “big being” who has transcended the need to do Scientology training.
I also think it is quite plausible that Hubbard thought that auditing and the “bridge” were just a game that he, as a big being, made up for his own amusement and enrichment – and Miscavige may have found evidence of that in materials that Hubbard left behind. Actually, Hubbard’s “Affirmations” of circa 1948, along with some other parts of the historical record such as his involvement in the black magic of Aleister Crowley are, I think, fairly solid evidence that exactly that was at work.
“Material things are yours for the asking. Men are your slaves.” – LRH, “Affirmations”
Does that Hubbard affirmation, not describe exactly the life that Scientology’s head leads?
PeaceMaker, once again you seem to be giving away the fact that you don’t know the difference between auditing and training. Wow.
marilidi, I just try to keep things simple for those without a lot of insider knowledge of Scientology’s systems and terminology. It’s also just been so long for me, and so little of concern for so many years, that I’m rusty on hewing to the fine points of scientology-speak.
You seem to me to be continually looking for ways to invalidate, rather than addressing what I have to say. That’s one reason that I don’t want to get into my auditing and training levels, because it is so typical of indies and freezoners to quibble about them. You might be surprised at what they actually were, perhaps even higher than yours – though I don’t have the experience you apparently do of being on staff and enforcing Hubbard’s indoctrination and control methods.
What I think is important here, anyway, is the big picture perspective on Hubbard’s work, and the earlier works and practices that he actually got his material from (not to mention all his co-authors, collaborators and contributors whose work he took credit for). People like George, above, and Rathbun, have done their homework in reading into Hubbard’s sources – how about you? No real need for knowledge about the subject? “Wow.”
So how about Hubbard’s affirmations? And his time in Parsons’ lodge of Crowley’s OTO? When he said that he wanted to make men his slaves, and then embedded Dianetics and Scientology with hypnotic, suggestive and manipulative control processes that many long-term serious students of his now recognize, including Rathbun and some of the real-old timers who only do the very essentials of “book one” auditing anymore, where does that leave you?
If you did actually understand the subject and its history, there would be an interesting discussion to be had about whether or not Hubbard really did anything innovative or insightful with what he borrowed, stole, and cobbled together – and it would be somewhat on-topic here.
PeaceMaker, let me put it this way. I’m not interested in long, detailed discussions about where Hubbard got his ideas – or in psychoanalyzing him.
From a purely logical standpoint, it doesn’t matter that he got his ideas from others. Focusing on that would be a logical fallacy when the topic of discussion is the tech. And that is the topic I’m mainly interested in. What is relevant is how he put ideas to practical use in developing the tech, regardless of who originated them
The reason I’m interested in discussion about the tech is that I consider it has value and should not be degraded because of misunderstandings about it and/or false data.
On the other hand, I can see why you aren’t interested in discussing the tech but would rather talk about related subjects, since, for starters, you apparently haven’t had enough training to even know that being Clear has no direct bearing on being trained. I tried to get you to clarify the comment you made about this, but you kept evading the issue.
Anyway, the bottom line is that neither of us is interested in what the other one wishes to discuss. Let’s leave it at that.
Shelley Jackson says
I was totally mesmerised by this sentence in the first success story: “The future is bright and I look forward to creating it with my wife full of fun…..”. What on earth does this even mean? He has a wife who’s full of fun or he’s looking forward to creating a life full of fun with his wife? (And if that’s the case does it mean his life up to this point has NOT been fun?) ………. Mind boggling.
xenu's son says
I am am OT 8.
save you some money and time here.
What is OT8?
Read history of man which tells you you have a tootacne because you were once a clam on the beach who was dying for no water.I just sat down on my cat.After 2 minutes the cat was back on my lap.
Ot is just one question.remember a past life .true?False?
Meter said it was always false.
All the engrams I ran on the space cooties 400,000 of them got me to believe that i was them in a past life.
Only problem I have no clue who I was in a past life.
So there you have it.
Stil wanna pay$350.000 to find this out?
Just because you are curious about yourself does not mean a con men has the answers.
I Yawnalot says
Thanks, it’s as silly as it seems. I guess I was OT8 and didn’t know it back in ’86 when I first read that stuff.
Can I attest now?
Yes, it’s pretty obvious how lame so-called “OT8” is in the COS and how rote and entirely predictable the praise for COB has become. ALL OT comps without exception say the exact same thing about COB as if read from a script; very un-creative, un-spontaneous, controlled and insincere.
So now let’s have a look at just one example, typical of what sort of wins a current, actual OT, solo auditing in the Indie Field has to offer. This is from a friend of mine who’s been out of COS for around three or four years and who’s name I’ll not disclose. He solo audits daily and periodically sends wins and cognitions to a number of friends. Compare this to what COS sends out…
“Just out of session!
I continue to be amazed at how much compromise can be tolerated just in order to have a game. The series of processes I am currently running really opens up the playing field.
How can one play a game at the speed of life when the playing field has solidified? The speed of thought, of a postulate created and the instant response from participants. Such exhilaration, such a unified creativity.
There is much to do but the ‘doing of’ is so wonderful and so rewarding there is no question of doing it or not.
Today’s session was like the most wonderful flow of soft, creative beauty permeating all of which was taking into it’s realm of understanding. From a condition of unconscious not-being (dubbed-in life) to awareness and participation in the creation of a future.
I love my daily auditing!!
Nice. It’s what happens when a persons goes within a looks. He sees things and has revelations. It happens all the time in meditation.
But Ron imprinted on his students the arrogant view that only Ron’s controlled looking is the only way to look and have realizations; not true, a lie.
But it is great that people have gains looking. It’s what happens when you look.
Meter or no meter. Command or no command. Examiner or no examiner. CS or no CS.
Students of truth have been doing it for millennia.
But Ron said they were inverted eighth dynamic or dramatizing implants. Or they did not have 100% standard most workable only way controlled Ron regimented looking. Therefore these men and women who braved the mind and life in the past will only lead you into the implanted trap that only Ron can free you from.
How do you square these thoughts scn911?
Good honest answer. Thanks.
Scn911. More of the same gibberish I saw endlessly at FSO when El Con ran the show. NOTHING in that SS shows ANY actual, measurable abilities above that of Homo Neanderthals.
In other words, just a crap sandwich that has no cause over matter, time, space or energy.
Mick Roberts says
That sure is an expensive ass certificate those two people are holding, even if they do frame it for you (yeah, thanks a lot!). The certificate even looks lame, almost as though the church didn’t really put much thought into it at all, although I suppose that’s par for the course with COB in charge.
Their grandchildren will be so proud.
Actually, thinking about it, those worthless OTVIII certificates will definitely have some future value for their grandchildren, because all worthless kitch eventually has value over time.
Maybe one day someone will wallpaper a bathroom in OTVIII certificates (dear God, let that bathroom be mine!… actually, geez, I think I will make copies for now until I can get the god-damned originals) WHat great bathroom decor! : )
L Yash says
We use to print those type “certificates” out for our successful Elementary School Students……..some were the kids doing well in “Field Day Events”……scheeeezzzz
OT 8 Success Story (after multi million dollar donations)
Izzie Chait and Mary Ann Chait have been Scientologists for 35+ years. They have donated millions to Miscavige’s causes and schemes. They both did their entire Bridge to OT 8 (years ago) and raised their children strictly on Scientology precepts.
All along the way, Izzie did his illegal harm of endangered animals as he discovered China was a huge market. Chinese medicine believe in using elephant tusks and rhino horns and pay huge sums of money.
So the animals get slaughtered.
But Karma stepped in. Izzi
Then, a couple of years ago, instead of being a high elevated human being, Ot 8, Izzie had a stroke. The paramedics took a long time to come and Izzie was comatose for a while. He has slowly recovered but is not mobile and has limited memory.
Meanwhile 2 of his kids Scientology born, bred and raised have been indicted, one is in Federal prison, the other indicted read Tony’s post above.
The family have *disconnected* with Jake who is imprisoned, a full blown disconnection.
Thanks for info Karen. How sad that the family disconnected from Jake, when he was probably only operating on his dad’s orders to do what he did. And all that money the Chait’s made off illegal selling etc, most of it went to the church in some form or another.
Izzy and Maryanne are the perfect examples of good affluent, unscrupulous scientologists. And now he is a broken man with no real family left. That is the true product of Scientology. The rest is the fluffy feel good reinforcement of magical thinking and pacifying adults and children who never want to grow up.
Karen#1, so let me get this straight..
Attainment of OT VIII will not ensure that your superiority will lead to the ethical treatment of animals?
In fact it might lead you to exploit endangered species? Gee, I never read any of that in the blessed literature of LRH.
And attainment of OT VIII does not ensure your health? Or the welfare of your children? OTVIII can’t keep your child out of prison???
Then why should I give one red penny to this thing called scientology? Oh, yeah, because I am a sucker!
I Yawnalot says
Excuse my French response – FUCK!
It is the last actual OT level, since OT IX and OT X do not, actually, exist.
Old Surfer Dude says
Agreed. There’s nothing past 8.
Prior to the printing and release of the Tech Volumes, I made a deal with ASHO (then on Rampart) to go through their archives of HCOBs and get copies of any that were not included in the SHSBC material. I found some very interesting stuff including a secret, not for public release bulletin that should not have been there. it included the EP for the next OT levels. OT IX, Freedom from BS, the ability to as-is any BS from any source, at cause over BS.
OT X Freedom from Success stories, since X and above are so confidential, you are no longer required to write them.
OT XI Freedom from Recruiting, the ability to convince recruiters that they already have met their goal for the week, causing them to go down the street and stare at billboards (similar to Jedi mind tricks).
OT XII Freedom from Regging, the ability to teleport regges to the office of COB and believe that he wants to donate.
Someday I will need to dig around the basement and see if there are any more good ones to share.
I Yawnalot says
I like your sense of humor.
It’s all one big sheet cake made of victory.
My family crest is a pair of eyes rolling to the side, but even so it’s one of the more ridiculous aspects of Scientology that OTVII can take years to complete but VIII is hop on a cruise, snick snack, done.
Have fun taking that bigass certificate back home on the plane.
L Yash says
I hope that in Season #2 Leah once again goes over the cost of “moving up the bridge”…i.e., how the “organization” will say “we have new material, you need to take all those courses over again”. Leah’s words…”You move UP the Bridge, only to move back DOWN again….it’s up the Bridge, and back down the bridge all the while you are paying again for course you’ve already taken”…..AND the cost of those same courses. I recall one “mega course” costing something like $100,000.
Seriously…..WHAT happens to the Social Security Checks that the ELDERLY are receiving from our Government, are they deposited right into a “special account” owned by CO$??? Where do these old folks go when they have Alzheimer’s, or need Nursing Home Care and WHAT happens to their Social Security Check THEN????
PLEASE will someone answer that question!! Elder Abuse to me is just as serious as Child Abuse….the children AND the Elderly can’t defend themselves from Blood Suckers…..
Abuse is abuse, no matter the age. I completed VII a long time ago and would never have tolerated the ridiculous 6 month sec checking to suck tons more money. When it was over, I simply “left” and, apparently, no one missed me. Talk about lucky breaks!!! So far, I only receive one piece of promotional drivel monthly, quickly deposited into the recycle bin on my way back into the house. As for Miscavige, I’m happy he was not in control when I left, not that LRH was much better. The last I heard re COB was that he’s not been anywhere near the cans since at least 1993. And he obviously has had faulty auditing from the beginning.
L Yash says
Fortunately you had the strength to leave and find another life…many do not have that strength…especially the Elderly who may have been living this life for decades and have nowhere else to go……and the children born into it….OR brought into it from infants or toddlers……they can’t just pick up and leave, they have NO CHOICE.
Abuse is abuse and that really needs to be focused on for everyone no matter what age. I am so PROUD of you Thegman77 that you have a new and happier life!
Jen Smith says
Donate for new OT level VIII and SECURE your route to immortality! Wow! You have to pay or give money to be on ‘route’ (not actually achieve) to immortality. So you either do this or one does not achieve immortality. Doesn’t that sound like bribery or an ultimatum!? Being able to ‘give’ money should not equate ones worth or worthiness for immortality. And the powers that be have no way to put this all to a halt? Scientology and it’s leader is a fraud. It’s so plain to see and yet the people who can do something about it, does nothing. This is how messed up our Western society has become. The reason some groups don’t want to touch this, is fear of their own belief system will be questioned. And since it’s only harming a small group or segment of society, it’s easy for them to do nothing. I think the religion, at least the way you guys know it, is dying a slow death. But man, it sure could go a lot faster if those in power actually did something about it. That little gray box with that statement just really pisses me off today. I admire ex-Scientologist’s strength and it’ll only grow with numbers and with the truth being exposed.
Ms. B. Haven says
I’m going to have to do some False Data Stripping. I thought OT VIII was great (https://otviiiisgrrr8.com).
I’ll bet the port authorities would like to see the ‘End Point’ of the Freewinds going somewhere else. A lot more money to be made on that dock space with a cruise ship full of tourists tied up there.
Xenus Brother In Law says
Don’t knock the OT abilities………..
I had an OT win this morning. I drove to work and parked in an empty car parking space first time!!
And I do this EVERY morning………. Woo woo………
Actually I’ve become a lot more proficient at it since I got out of the cult 20 years ago. Back then I couldn’t park in an empty space. Mainly because I didn’t have a car…….
Why? Because the “church” had fleeced me and I couldn’t afford one.
But I was told that parting with my money made me more able.
So you’re saying you spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, ditched all your friends who might’ve disagreed, surrendered your passport, volunteered to be placed in golden handcuffs aboard the Freewinds, and all for the privilege of eating a mystery sandwich. And then you’re forced to say the sandwich was delicious.
I see these success stories as not only something that proves the person has been duped, although it does accomplish that. I see it more as a tool that is used to manipulate someone. Even though these particular ones are lukewarm by Scientology standards they still demonstrate that once someone has gushed over something as being great it becomes near impossible to recant – it becomes much easier to justify what you said or thought rather than change it.
It’s fascinating how much manipulation and mind control is in Scientology. I wonder how much of that was deliberate and how much was accidental.
Harpoona Frittata says
If there was any sort of truth-in-advertising in $camatology it would be something like, “OT 8, Truth Reviled”
Total cause over throwing your money down a rat hole, then recommending in complete sincerity that others do likewise!
Reminds me of a friend who completed OTVII after 10 years. The first thing he said to me was “Glad that’s over.” WOW! Where do I sign-up?
Most of the VIII’s success stories I’ve ready are still referring to “case” or negative gain…oops.
For an “actual” OT Level I want TRAINING, on how to BE OT and have all those yummy sooper powerz.
I Yawnalot says
Now we’re getting somewhere about explaining the bullshit that organised Scientology floats on. It’s goals and aspirations all fall in heap with the term OT and perish completely with OT8. I happen to know and have a couple of OT8s in the family. Well… they don’t talk to me anymore and one of ’em hates me with a passion since I can easily point out to her she has MUs all throughout Scientology and it’s procedures, especially its fundamentals like the axioms, basic books and such. She’s a professional PC & so is completely accustomed to being pampered and never invalidated or specifically questioned on her understanding of things. She bought and manipulated her way up Scientology’s Bridge to nowhere, (she still owes me $ btw). The other is an experienced CL8 (he never audits anymore – he isn’t allowed to but buys it totally that COB is the man! What a jerk he is). He avoids me like the plague because he knows that I know he’s rabbited from the truth. The whole line up of what the space cootie OT route & NOTs constitutes leading up to whatever version of 8 you are sold is a complete fairy-tale designed around money making and abilities imagined, and are completely inapplicable to life. A professional success story writer is a brilliant explanation of the only ability gained by the OT route to misery, family disintegration and bankruptcy.
I still maintain there’s something fun & usable with basic auditing and some Scientology/Dianetics procedures. Prior to the hypnotic KSW era taking complete hold of the subject there was potential and the term, “if it’s not fun it’s not Scientology was extant,” people came and went as they pleased. But Hubbard made and allowed his PR machine to make too many outlandish claims for what his “technology” does and where it goes. It’s a never ending amazement to me that if you read and understood what Hubbard actually said through the 50/60s he displayed an underlying contempt with the condition of being human – it’s a highly aberrated state according to Hubbard and can/should be avoided by using his technology – he claimed he found you, the “Spirit,” the solver of everything – eureka, the “Truth!” But then he turned completely around mid stride and began addressing those entities he said you never have to audit or touch. He began to reverse the subject. The Bridge after he wrote KSW was subtly rewritten piece by piece over and over and it could be suggested with available evidence it was specifically designed to do you in and kill/introvert any abilities you may have priorly attained, (geezers, the Clear definition or the attainment of it is a prime example). By 1980 Hubbard was nowhere to be found. He didn’t even introduce NOTs personally, not even by video or tape. He was or had been made into a shadow by then. No wonder he was scared, his organisation was lying through it’s teeth!
Don’t get me wrong with any of this, I feel I’m entitled to my opinion and the right to change my mind at any time with my understanding of Scientology as I I reckon I’ve earned the right by attrition alone to comment on it. But it is obvious the subject is full of impossible claims and assertions plus there are some very dark motives buried in its procedures. However, as a simple therapy without the hype and globally oriented domination pitch (Hubbard truly believed he could pull off world domination with his technology – how’d that work out for you Ron?) it can be fun. There are some great questions he asked and came up with some rather remarkable ways of seeing things. Hey, it was enough to sucker in a lot of very intelligent people! There’s a great deal of truth mixed up with Scientology. There’s also a lot of truth in many other things in life too, so Scientology as it is will never be a solution for anything, it’s an organised scam. It does however fit in as a part the greater puzzle explaining the human condition. Gullible we may well be and sure have a tendency for self destruction but the potential for moving forward is always open to those with a thirst to ‘know why.’ A great deal of applied Scientology unfortunately fitted into the, “how not to do it category.”
Greed and stupidity have no work-ability or place in the contemplation of the salvation concerning the human species.
Good post, Yawn. That was a pretty comprehensive summary of the Scientology movement. The only thing I would disagree with was the part about “cooties” being a “complete fairy tale.” That may be true for some people, but with others NOTs auditing is/was very real and beneficial.
Overall, well said.
I Yawnalot says
Whatever floats your boat Marildi. There’s all sorts of religions and ways to think out there, even in Scientology. If something works for you great, however how you define “what works” is as broad as you can think, live or imagine.
What gets stuck in my craw about the so called Bridge is Hubbard’s definition of spirit and how he based the whole subject on a bunch of Qs, Logics & Scientology axioms followed by Dianetic axioms and a scattering of scales and lists. Fair enough, a stable set of things to align everything else.
From my study of the R&Ds and early stuff the direction of so called research kept pretty much on track with the basics. From SOPs, being 3 feet back of your head to mock up processing and claiming Dianetics was limited in application because too much of it validates the bank, along to GPM tech and the CC. It more or less ran in one direction – that is, “always process towards the thetan” were Hubbard’s words and general guidelines of all auditing. During the delivery of that tech in that era saw the greatest expansion of the technology. Then along came KSW and then OT3. If one was to rehab Scientology as an activity or debug it, where did something change in it? What “orders?” are now being implemented. Even Miscavige raves about Saint Hill Size.
I just don’t trust anything with Miscavige’s endorsement and that includes what I don’t consider follows the run of basic tech. I could even go as far as to say the OT levels in any format won’t deliver what they promise. The falling away of ARC from the Organisation began seriously with KSW1 and has continued to get worse. Where are the OT abilities within the organisation? They don’t exist!
Introverting into the body as NED for OTs does is in stark contrast to the guidelines of auditing – it does not process toward the thetan but towards an excuse for behavior – I don’t agree with it mainly because I’ve done it and seen lots of people who walked away from it, got sick, broke, some died, cancer is too high among its users and it keeps people in financial and hence familial distress.
This is my opinion of course but there is on aspect of auditing I feel many people don’t understand. Auditing is supposed to address, thought, emotion and effort. The thought and emotion (eg tone scale observation etc) are easy to understand and process but effort?? Not many realize it forms in chains as well and transforms into A=A=A as much as anything else does. Too much effort in any auditing cycle defeats the reason to audit and makes the auditing itself reactive. Spending years on SNOTs forms it’s own bank reaction, not to mention the associated “effort” required, be it financial, familial or any other manifestation of effort. Then throw in a mess of sec checks on top of it all. No, space cootie tech may be worth some value to understand as a procedure or knowledge (maybe), but bury it in effort and it becomes suppressive! The more effort you put into it the more damage it does. Some people wonder why their TA goes though the roof and hate auditing, the meter and Scientology – period!
Keep it light remember, lightness of organisation and transfer of data – Hubbard’s words and very important but were the first casualty of enforced expansion and demand for money.
The Scientology organisation and their applications, especially the upper levels are just about as suppresive as you can get. Fuck them and the assholes who profits from it!
Yawn: “Introverting into the body as NED for OTs does is in stark contrast to the guidelines of auditing – it does not process toward the thetan but towards an excuse for behavior”
I understand what you’re saying, but what was Hubbard supposed to do when he discovered that entities actually did require being audited directly? I see this change in approach as similar to his statement that auditing is only 50% of the gains and training the other 50%. With auditing, a person handles “inner” barriers to well being; training addresses the “outer” barriers, such as better communication, efficiency, etc.
If entities do negatively affect people (or some people), it seems to me this is more like an outer barrier in the sense that it can’t be handled by auditing one’s own case (even if it could, it would probably be a very long runway, at best).
And don’t forget that NOTs in the church is not the same as outside the church. Check out this short video of a guy who completed Solo NOTs at the Dror Center in Israel. At least watch the last half (5 minutes) where he describes the EP he got – truly spectacular: http://scnil.org/english/2016/09/02/avivs-surprise-prize/
Thanks for your other observations, too. Again, very well said.
Harpoona Frittata says
“…what was Hubbard supposed to do when he discovered that entities actually did require being audited directly? ”
Umm, let’s see…he could have finally come to the realization that he was totally insane and suffering from Dissociative Identity Disorder (among many other things) then sought psychiatric help for his very serious mental affliction. Or, how about asking a longtime trusted companion to help him kill himself in order to finally free himself from the mental torment of being truly insane?
How about this one: Refund all the cash the cult took in promoting the bogus tech that Elron supposedly just discovered was incorrect?
I Yawnalot says
“Directly addressing the entities” wasn’t a discovery in my opinion but more as a method of continuing the research ethos and hence keep the status quo of Hubbard as “da man!” I don’t mean that as a negative jibe against Hubbard but as an observation. He was cornered by his own operating basis and was a “professional student of research.” Man only believes there is becomingness, but there is beingness,” or some such wording is Hubbards. He never applied his own “tech” to himself! He developed his own ivory tower where he transformed into an obsessive creator of tech & other things, rather than as a leader of others. I hate to say it, but he really lost his marbles. He truly was a God awful officer! He even lied about his military accomplishments. In this case his navy was only as good as the commodore who leads it! How many disaffected ex SO are there?
“For some time now we have past the point of uniformly workable technology…” in retrospect that is a provable lie along with the unworkability of the 10 points of KSW. He himself never stopped altering the tech.The organisation itself is a disgrace and does horrible things to people. There is no example that l know of that proves “standard Scientology provides standard results” within a group (it’s not for me to say another cannot attain anything they want in their own minds and in their own life and good luck to them). But Scientology policy sure fell well short of being workable in anyone’s hands.
Separating out what is workable in Scientology is really the only responsibility worth perusing if you have an interest in the subject, expecting others to agree with you turns you into a “turkey shoot” using the available evidence, especially around those who fell foul of that organisation.
If NOTs is the discovery that needed to be done to secure mankind’s salvation… geezers, look, don’t listen. It’s an organised disaster!
I’m not saying all is bad or wrong with what Hubbard’s work, but it’s sure time to take a hard look at being independent of it’s personality influences. Hubbard made mistakes, like we all do. For some that’s just too much to bear!
Yawn: “I’m not saying all is bad or wrong with what Hubbard’s work, but it’s sure time to take a hard look at being independent of it’s personality influences. Hubbard made mistakes, like we all do. For some that’s just too much to bear!”
I have no problem bearing that the fact that Hubbard made mistakes. You must be thinking of a few others here who practically froth at the mouth when anything a little too positive is said.
Hubbard critics do not call them mistakes. We call them willing deception or mental disorders.
Brian, I would add that Hubbard made some fundamental errors because of his intellectual sloppiness and unscientific approach, that taint and undermine his work. Among them were continuing to base his work on the theory of engrams, which was disproven in a scientific study in the 1950s – Hubbard and Scientology could certainly have commissioned further studies to settle the matter, and see what else could have been learned.
Doing OT3, my big cognition was, “Jesus, I’m running Ron’s case!” Dial wide F/N which didn’t stop for over a week. LOL Of course, that’s not what I wrote up nor declared. The F/N just kept coming!
That’s a very well done. Great example of maintaining personal integrity.
Good that you at least got benefits from other auditing (according to some of your comments).
I Yawnalot says
Now, that’s a boat worth floating! Keep up those FNs 77!
marildi, “fairy tales” can still produce the illusion of real benefits – see, for instance, the placebo effect, and the vast history of supposed “miracles” from even the most bizarre religious practices. Darren Brown’s youtube videos, such as “Voodoo Doll”, show how when multiple factors such as suggestibility and misdirection are put to work in the sorts of ways that that Hubbard also did, illusory effects can be produced that seem just as impressive as the ones produced in Scientology:
I Yawn, Ron floated scamology on OT bullshit from ~1952. That’s when he started marketing the God like abilities angle and whole track B.S.
I Yawnalot says
Yes he did – I’ve come to the same conclusion (much has been gained from Mike’s site and the ex SO who comment here). Hubbard went way too far too quickly with what his “stuff” could do. I don’t care for “wholetrack or God like states think” as a solution for anything, been there, done that, T shirt and all. It’s way too subjective to have “laws or enforced agreements” about it. You may not agree but I don’t really care, auditing is a simple therapy and if done with honesty and feeling you can get some mental benefit to relieve some stuff with rudiments, basic engrams etc. But to open eternity’s pearly gates, don’t think so but I guess we’ll have to wait and see what happens after you’re dead. I’m in no hurry to find out, but i still pay taxes though, at least relief from that is guaranteed with death!
Same can be said of many therapeutic circumstances in other practices’s too, some good some crazy. The megalomania behind Scientology is Hubbard himself and the marketing of bs just took off, gained a life of its own and smothered everything else. I’m into my own truth of things these days and don’t seek confirmation through communication like I use to, nor do I rely on it much either. I guess getting old does that but I’ve got my own tool box of skills I seen stand me in good stead. I am getting a touch more pissed off recently with the Cof$ though as it continues to rip the family apart and with getting to be senior citizens it’s just too bat shit crazy for the Scientology members to keep up the ridiculous charade. I really want Christmas, Thanksgiving and birthdays back. It’s big ask of a Scientologist – respect family values!
Well I Yawn we can take some comfort knowing that the CoS encompasses less people with each passing day. The end IS nigh.
I’m getting a bit of enturbulation right now. I was never in Scientology, but long ago a spent a few years involved with an LGAT cult (large group awareness training, like est for instance), which was much less destructive than being sucked into a totalitarian regime like Scientology. But there are similarities. One that struck me today was that there was a lot of writing of success stories, wherein canned units of group-specific terminology, using redefined language, were strung together in endless variations to proclaim, in the most creative way possible under the circumstance, how wonderful everything is now that the scales have fallen away from your eyes. And, thank yous to the dear leader, for being the light and the way, were always part of the equation. This was usually done in the midst of a kind of trance state, induced during a days-long mind numbing seminar. Every time I read these Scientology success stories, I am instantly transported to that time, like an LSD flashback being released from my fat cells — the parallels are so striking.
Idle Morgue says
Oat Teas are void of compassion and love.
They also hide the fact that most of them file bankruptcy and lose their homes to foreclosure…
Cuz revealing that truth would make Scientology look bad…
Wow – just amazing how people are scammed into protecting this evil cult.
Mat Pesch says
I’ve talked to many of the OT 8’s who have left the control of Scientology. They realized that to state while on the level how they really felt only cost them more and more in “Review”. They knew the only way off the ship was to play along and pretend they were happy with the level and the “results”. Pretty much one for one they felt that their life crashed after OT 8. Some returned to the Freewinds a time or two in an effort to get it right. $100,000 later they confronted the fact that the problem wasn’t themselves. They achieved “truth revealed” as promised. They realized they had been scammed and they would do better going forward in life without the cherch of Scientology wrapped around their necks.
Another “miracle”? I thought this was supposed to be Science of the Mind not hold on to your butts and let’s hope this works…Oh wait, nevermind…
Alice Graves says
There’s a really fascinating documentary about the thought control culture in North Korea that’s streaming on Netflix now, called The Lovers and The Despot. I found it so interesting that I watched it several times, and much of the film footage reminded me of scientology events.
There is a lot of film footage covering the reign of Kim Jong Il and some of his father, Kim Il Sung’s reign. The footage of the huge public rallies that were put on to glorify these leaders is really stunning to watch. We’re talking tens of thousands of people all in one stadium, maniacally applauding and contorting their faces in faked adoration of their leader, or during Kim Il Sung’s funeral, trying to out-grieve each other – hysterically crying, wailing and waving handkerchiefs.
At one point in the film, the narrator testifies that many families were exterminated for displaying insincere grief at the funeral.
To me the North Korean culture is exactly what scientology would be if it were successful in gaining political acceptance and/or control on a huge scale. This is no exaggeration.
Give youself a further lesson by researching a bit of Nazi history with the huge rallies of hundreds of thousands. Lots of photos easily available on the net demonstrating that the suckers keep falling for the same games. Hell, it went on back in the time of the Caesars! Nothing new in any of it.
C. Williams says
Every time I read about the different level’s and all the hell & $ one must truly sacrifice. And then there is the complete suffering & now I even hear stories of physical abuse. One would think that this David M. (true asshole of the last billion years) would be arrested for assault???
C. Williams, the police won’t arrest unless the victim wants to press charges.
One fact remains however. There are more OT VIII’s who have been declared or just left the church than there are actual ones left in the church. 🙂
Old Surfer Dude says
That is also true of Class XII Auditors. There’s a Declare waiting for you st the top of the Bridge. Bridge? More like treadmill.
I Yawnalot says
See… Scientology does have standard procedures!
This fixation with Present-time always amazes me. It’s continuously featured in success stories. As per usual Scientology is not alone in discussing this, real therapy has similar concepts, but the difference is that when I learned about it the teacher started by historical review of what is called “here and now” in cognitive behavioral therapy, and we read references going back to the antique. All this was meant to show that while we might occasionally use techniques to get the patients into “present time” as the clams would say, these ideas are not new, or in any way unique to CBT. But in Scientology it’s of course a great gift from DM and Source.
You nailed it. The addiction starts…..
Is it just me or has anyone else noted the irony in that the end phenomenon of OTVIII is almost exactly the same as the formula for dealing with being put into the condition of enemy? Its almost as if L Ron Hubbard was having a joke with his punters by implying that having made it as far as “The Bridge to Xenu” goes pretty much means a person has been an enemy to themself.
Crepuscule, I have noted that 8 is similar to going Clear. Where it ends that it was all just made up to begin with.
I Yawnalot says
Yes, and it’s an unwinnable war too. First it creates casualties of everyone you associate with, everything you know from other sources and eradicates all you own. Then it campaigns heavily against you yourself. It’s always fighting – Scientology must have an enemy to survive or exist!
Harpoona Frittata says
The completely unintended usefulness of the conditions formulas hit home for me personally when I did my own Doubt formula on $cn as a whole, without the “help” of my org’s idiot of an ethics officer.
Swear to Xenu, choosing to exit the cult and never look back was one of the best decisions that I ever made in my life!
Yes, they’re looking forward to enjoying freedom from being sucked into doing more courses. Funny, but nobody can see that true freedom is out the door.
Mike, how long has OTVIII been “new”?
Idle Morgue says
I wognited when I was in the Cult of $cientology going up the Bridge to Total Slavery – that if I spend enough money and jump through enough hoops to make it to OT VIII – I will believe anything.
I heard a few OT VIII “wins” like “I have a great 2-D” (like 7 billion people on the planet can’t get a 2-D unless they spend $2,000,000 on Scientology?
Then – that OT divorced that 2-D and they both were Declared SP.
Scientology – a horrible hoax and SCAM!
“Wognited”. Haha! I hadn’t seen that one yet Idle Morgue. I am shamelessly stealing that. With credit to you of course.
I think my father finally wognited the other night at the Birthday Event. He went to the new Org here in Ventura. The next morning I saw the donation form they handed out. It was crumpled up and blank.
Idle Morgue says
Awesomesauce that he had that wognition to throw it away!! 🙂
Old Surfer Dude says
You only paid $200,000 for a 2D??? Man, what was I thinking dropping $500,000 for a 2D when I could have gotten away with paying only $200,000!!!!
Idle, if I ever do something like that again, slap the shit out of me…
Idle Morgue says
OSD – the guy was into the cult for $2,000,000 MILLION smackaroonies…including his donos to the International ASSociation of $camontologists. He got his 2-D but then they divorced and both were DEEclared. If you are wealthy – the C/$ will find more “problems” you will need to get “programs” to solve….
I knew a guy who gave the ability to handle problems as one of his wins on OTVIII. Really? What did he do on Grade One then? False attest?
Idle Morgue says
No pedrofcuk – You see – when you go up the Scientology Bridge – you will get problems you do not want.
The Oat Tea Ate “purchased problems from the Church of Scientology” he did not want…
when he reached the end of “purchasing problems via the Co$ that he did not want”
– those PROBLEMS FINALLY VANISHED!
and don’t forget – he now knows who he is NOT.
Rob Williamson says
What trickery. One goes clear when one realizes one is making it all up. Well, of course it has to be made up, otherwise it wouldn’t exist. Make it up. Audit it out.
Then one has no awareness of “The Whole Track”; what happened anywhere on it or in it. The truth is, The Whole Track never existed but the shore story is you just weren’t aware of it because one had amnesia. One’s lack of awareness is proof of the amnesia. What trickery.
Idle Morgue says
I Yawnalot says
Even the rabbit eventually woke up and realized the hat never existed.
Ronn S. says
“In fact, there are more OT VIII’s who have left scientology than remain.” MR
Didn’t know that! Damning indeed. Hasn’t it been rewritten or renewed, as in NEW OTVIII? I’ve heard its been changed like 5 times?
Old Surfer Dude says
I liked where Hubbard says he’s Lucifer, and Jesus is the bad guy. He also said, Jesus was a lover of men &a boys. I’ve never heard about OT8 being charged 5 times.
Old Surfer Dude says
“Changed,” not charged. It’s late…
I Yawnalot says
Charged works too there Dude. How many times are Scientologists charged for doing or buying the same repackaged stuff? mmmm….
Buber Zionist (@buberzionist) says
The above video shows OT VIIs delivering their success stories in person. The first OT VII blathers at length about numerology or something. None of the speakers mentioned anything about the past lives they supposedly now recall. What a boon to historians it would be if OT VIIIs could actually recall details of past lives.
What a boon indeed! I’ve been looking for my 3rd great grandparents for 40 years….they must be in someone’s past lives somewhere among these OTVIII’s…
Poor lad in that video is gonna’ be in serious ethics shit for not specifically and profusely thanking the biggest being on the planet: David Miscavige 😉
Reggie Workman says
Inherent in this posting about success story is one of the fatal flaws in Scientology and is an example of what is wrong in the system. Success Stories were to be a qualification or quality check on the tech delivered to the individual to make sure the person was satisfied and nothing was awry. Very smart in theory. But like many concepts in Scientology it was hugely perverted to be a way to force the individual to be “happy” and comply with the end result supposedly reached. If one did write a bad success story it was put on the individual that there was something wrong with him or her, not that some form of out tech had occurred. Or perhaps just maybe not every single prescribed level of the Bridge fit every single person on planet earth. Further, it became a form of conformist propaganda to effuse as much “enthusiasm” as possible when writing one’s success story. The whole original concept became grossly perverted. Because, in this writer’s opinion, the biggest betrayal in Scientology were the promised end results on each level of the Bridge, which especially at the OT levels, were unachievable by everyone including L Ron Hubbard, this success story perversion was particularly pernicious and was surely one of the largest mechanisms keeping everyone in tow about (lack of) results.
Idle Morgue says
How $cientology $cams:
If you don’t wax your wins in your Suck-Cess Story –
You will continue to pay…and pay…and pay….
And that is a fact
Reggie, I would question whether Hubbard ever intended for Success Stories to be anything other than what they have become. I can’t readily find any historical references. My reality-check rule of thumb in matters like this, is whether Hubbard, who would get livid about things that were going on that he objected to or thought contrary to his intent, ever tried to rein in what was happing in this regard – nope!
This, over and over. SCN always blames the poor PC for not doing things that remain impossible. It’s utterly unforgiving, and always assumes the org is right. And they wonder why they have gone down hill…
Sorry marildi and friends, but none of the end phenomena work.
enturbulate! enturbulate! says
Stuart Smalley: “I’m good enough, I’m smart enough, and doggone it, people like me!”
Impinge: have an effect or impact, especially a negative one
Damn you!! I was just about to post my Stuart Smalley comment, and I decided to skim through to see if someone else had already done it.
HumanRightsAdvocate (@VolunteerMinst) says
Wow, amazing that Scientology customers are so stupid to fa,ll for the same shit over and over and over again. Speaks volumes about dimwitted rubes.
Idle Morgue says
May you be blessed with the Bridge to Total Freedom my friend.
Old Surfer Dude says
Along with the Ls, purif, Student Hat & the SRD.
Harpoona Frittata says
There are many folks of above-average intelligence who’ve fallen victim to the cult, so it would be a very serious mistake to believe that $cn only attracts “dimwitted rubes”. Indeed, understanding how the long con of $cn works on both the bright and the not-so bright is a deep and important question to explore if we are to help prevent the spread of this pernicious meme disease.
Chris Thompson says
” In fact, there are more OT VIII’s who have left scientology than remain.”
That is because the truth is revealed ………….. a hollow promise. Only those with a full blown and flaming case of Cognitive Dissonance remain.
That is You good buddy. A flamer with a dissonant cog.
Old Surfer Dude says
So, Oat Tee 8 is the first true Oh Tea level? I would have been pissed off beyond belief! But, everything is make believe in the cult. And I’m still a Jedi Night……I mean, Knight.
I think Oh Tea Severance is the first true Oh Tea level. After that it is all downhill into the state of Oh Shiiiiiiiiiit …………… what was I thinking!!??
We will henceforth refer to it as the Nite Soil Level or as we have heard from the Jedi’s before ………. It’s pure Daveshit.
Old Surfer Dude says
Nite soil level. Makes me want to pee…
I Yawnalot says
Oh Tea – cream and sugar with that, twist of lemon perhaps? Don’t forget, take the water to the kettle, not the kettle to the water. Oh my, so much technology, so little time…
Simi Valley says
That is some seriously lame shit. I too “cognited” that I really like myself while recovering from the cult and didn’t need to spend 15 or 20 G’s to do so. Actually, not liking or seriously loving yourself is a sign of low self-esteem which is one of the reasons people get sucked into a cult in the first place.
Kasey Briggs says
I thought the same thing about the wins for that guy. Now he likes himself. Imagine how much better he’d like himself out of the COS.
I think that L. Con died from embarrassment after he released 8 (and YES, that is a level HE wrote). I wonder how he supposedly “researched” OT 8 since he hadn’t completed OT 7 and he didn’t pilot it on any OT 7 completions. I guess, like all else, he just lied and pulled it out of his behind.
Chris Thompson says
Exactly, like everything else, he pulled it out of his ample, wide, pock marked (but magical!) ass.
I love the wins that RC wrote. He comments that he has much greater ARC for others. My sister in law completed OT VIII recently as well but somehow missed out on this ARC for others as she helped the cult create a hate website against me and Lois. She kind of missed out on that Affinity part of the ARC triangle.
As far as handling amnesia on the whole track, I bet RC couldn’t tell us what he had for lunch last Tuesday.
Just like all of these “wins”. They are just made up hype like everything in SCN so they don’t end up with a red tag back paying for more correction lists.
I Yawnalot says
Correction lists – something to contemplate isn’t it? Correction back to what? I have a similar situation with my OT8 family members – ARC doesn’t exude from any of them in the slightest, in fact quite the opposite!
Harpoona Frittata says
But, but…she was only helping you to see the error of your ways, so you could return to the fold and, ultimately, achieve total spiritual freedom!
With friends and family like that, who needs a Marcabian invader force as your mortal whole-track enemy?
Elron made the huge mistake of promising specific, objectively verifiable abilities to be gained at many of the highest levels of bridge processing, such as perfect whole track recall. The fact that no OT 8 can even remember what they had for dinner two months ago, let alone accurately recall the details of their last lifetime, should be enough to clue anyone in to the utter bogusness of Elron’s claims.
But for far too many it is not and you’re left to wonder: Is there anything at all that would disconfirm their belief in Hubbard’s “promise the moon, but deliver only shit sandwich results”? It’s truly a wonder that, with so many disproved claims over the years, how $cn has survived this long!
Kind of like a religious anti-miracle, if you ask me 😉
I’ve seen that site and it doesn’t speak well for your SIL’s memory of the full track. I believe you and Lois.
“As far as handling amnesia on the whole track, I bet RC couldn’t tell us what he had for lunch last Tuesday”. 🙂 Thanks for the chuckle, CPO.
These could be Objectives completion success stories. I have yet to read an OT VIII success story that was in the least bit impressive. I guess that’s why so many depart after doing it. Truth has finally been revealed: they were hoping for pie in the sky and only got recycled back to earth. I know who I am not and ready to find out who I really am. Welcome to your enemy condition – Thanks Ron.
Old Surfer Dude says
+1! Outstanding post! I remember watching a clip from a newly minted OT8. The tone of his voice was flat. There was no sparkle in his eyes. And just as you said, freebeing, he stood at the podium with his head down reading his “wins” and realizing he was at the top of the hill…and he was still the same. Nothing changed. At all.