Please read the lengthy and compelling article on Tony Ortega’s blog this morning about Laura Dieckman (Decrescenzo)’s case.
Using information from her pc folders (that the church was forced to turn over) she has filed documents in the court to refute the church’s latest gambit to try to get rid of her case.
It is a chilling account. It will make your blood boil.
But for anyone who has any interest in Scientology it is a must read.
Ignore the church PR. This IS reality.
Just admiration and affinity for you Gayle! Thank you for saying so directly what I’m sure many here feel.
1) Are you implying Oracle is using OSA tactics?
2) What you wrote was shocking to me, as it came from you and, as far as I’m concerned, was damaging without saying who originated it.
3) “It would be great if the attitude toward those who deliver actually reflected the value of what they deliver.” – Maybe it does? This is the crux of the matter, isn’t it? Estimation of value is highly individual. I can understand you want respect for what you do. Everyone does. But these blogs are the meeting grounds of many people, some who feel betrayed, angry. Not everyone may be in a position or inclined to give it. Remember, being able to vent (as you just did) is also a vital part of the healing process.
4) I understand you would not see a point in entering a biased or unequal discussion as to your value. Neither would I, but I do not make a potential customer wrong for not understanding what I do, publicly or otherwise. I think there’s so much value we never really appreciate. Consider: no farmers + food companies = no food = you can forget your auditing. No internet = I can forget my work. Everyone contributes to our society.
5) There are many reasons the CoS is failing. I think its demise is systemic. It bore its own seeds of destruction. “Holier than thou” comes to mind. M2 is a questionable experiment, as one might (perhaps rightly) fear a re-enactment, hardly desireable at this or any other stage.
6) Fundamentalism: Collins, def. 3: strict adherence to the fundamental principles of any set of beliefs.
Dollar Morgue,
I’ll do my best to answer your qns;
1. yes, I consider using hidden recording devices to be OSA style. I also believe the posts on Marty’s blog threads about it that were cryptic and accusatory were as well.
2. I’m not sure what you’re referring to here, sorry.
3. & 4. I am someone who won’t back down to what I receive as suppressive generalizations, attacks on auditors, joking and degrading about them, attempting to destroy an auditor’s reputation. I held Qual posts for 17.5 of my 18 years on staff. I HELPED auditors as it was a purpose that I jumped out of bed in the morning to pursue and went to bed at night happy to have done. I take it very personally when they are attacked, third partied, gossiped about, invalidated or joked and degraded about, overtly or covertly. I wore that hat for as long as I did because of how much it aligns with my purpose as an individual to help people with something I found that actually does. Auditors do that. They deserve to be treated with respect. I don’t know ONE of them who I consider my friends who do this for any other reason than to HELP people. I’ve seen some squirrel shit being delivered out here that took some WORK to undo – shit that blew people off the Bridge and in a few cases closer to the edge than we want ANYONE to go. REAL Help comes in the form of it being safe for us to do what we’re doing without the efforts to use these blogs to incite. Scientology is not about winning the blog thread – it would be nice if the blog threads weren’t used as a forum to attack auditors out of the cofs who are DOING something to keep the tech free from the church’s death grip.
5. I had my own disagreements with MS2…guess who I talked to about it? Them. I spoke with several of them and I was in comm with Marty as well. I thought that was the best way to deal with the matter. Directly, honestly and with the intention of trying to understand because of how vital the whole thing had been to creating more delivery in the field. I was HUGELY upset with how it came out and then with how Marty countered it. It was SOOO upsetting to see good people, valuable people, resourceful people be involved with such a debacle and to have it play out like that on the blog – really I had to speak my piece directly and the reason is because I care(d).
6. not sure what you’re point is here; if a person doesn’t have some fundamental truths from which to proceed in life I think it would be a fairly empty existence. If you’re implying that I’m a fundy – you’d have to give me your independent scientologese definition as I’ve found their are several. I consider me to be a professional auditor who can apply the tech of Scientology to my pcs in a manner that will get them results, higher awareness and forward motion toward what matters to them in life. I do it as it’s laid out on the grade chart. My e-meter is my eyes in to the case and I use that to move the tone arm till we have energy released. I also know that the OT level tech is valuable and meant to be done on the gradient of the chart and the e-meter continues to be the validating information of where I go and when I’m done JUST like on the lower Bridge. I DON’T consult the red/green vols in order to figure out what to do next in my day.
Any way, now you know DM that when auditors go under attack it will likely bring me to the table I’m not often at due to auditing and say “hey, yeah YOU! when I see YOUR ass in session handling the pc’s desires to go Clear and OT you can talk trash but then again if you DID get your ass there I think you’d eventually discover that they aren’t the people you will find it easy to talk trash ABOUT!”
So end of my rant, off to audit my 5th hour today. 😉
Hey Galyle…..I totally support your opinion and effort to carry LRH straight into the future.
I recently finished L-12 recently and am currently out on the coast doing OT 5. I have had tremendous personal gain from the tech LRH gifted us. I believe we have had it if this tech is ever allowed to be buried. I thank God there are Independent Auditors, C/S’s and Qual folks out here to do what the church was unwilling to do. Auditors are as you say some of the nicest and decent people you would ever want to know.
Keep going Gayle there are many of out here who want to see you succeed but for now we are also stuck with a good many who want to make nothing of LRH and auditing.
+ 1
Well stated KFrancis. I have very long and deep personal experience using the tech, both on myself and many others and have a huge amount of certainty on it’s effectiveness. The wonderful thing about this reformation is that we are now free to practice the core values of the tech, ie. arc, freedom, truth, personal choice, privacy, without reserve or constraint. The tech has immense value and the market will sort out, the auditors that are giving people the wins that they deserve. No one can force anyone to get more auditing if they don’t wish, after damage from the RCS, but I deeply hope it remains available in pure form for those that do. I don’t think all the added bullshit and abuse has to be systemic. If the group understands it’s basic purpose, TO FREE BEINGS, in their every action, quickly rejecting anything that does not support this, then they will be successful.
Hi K,
Great going on your L12 attainment. Another tick in the Goals list is done!
This silly squabble which started by someone being pissed off over a group’s need to make another independent representation of self determinism, just smacks of petty intolerance, imo. As Gayle says, she is standing up for AUDITORS, who are being slimed, invalidated, Dead Agented, or attacked, just for doing their job (helping!)
To my view, the key here is to ask one simple question. What is the ‘intent’ behind the ‘move/s? Are we against people having free choice? Are we once again, having our minds made up for us by yet another “know best?”
Or are we invited, as LRH made clear, to MAKE UP OUR OWN MINDS?
Last time I checked, it appears we actually DO have that right 🙂
Mister mi-SCAT-idge deserves at least nine lives at Alcatraz. Sure, it can be reopened and for such a “power” inmate, no guards necessary, only great white sharks
Dollar Morgue,
I wrote nothing shocking to anyone who is delivering the tech out here. I’m one of a handful of highly trained auditors I know who even read his blog anymore because of their upsets with how much LRH and tech bashing goes on there. I spoke to Marty from the heart. He didn’t feel attacked.
I’m not sure what her purpose was to sling that arrow out of no where at MS2 but it wasn’t cool. I’m sick and tired of the attacks against auditors and CSes by people who aren’t delivering it. I’m not a member of MS2 either but I sure do know some good auditors who are. It’s like the church where instead of recognizing that auditors are valuable and to be cared for (those who actually do audit LRH tech and not their squirrel versions of the gradechart of OT levels that is) they are instead treated like shit.
It feels like the church viewpoint and OSA tactics all over again. How bullshit is that? It would be great if the attitude toward those who deliver actually reflected the value of what they deliver. If one deosn’t believe that the gradechart material is valuable, if there is agreement that someone exists who is more productive at putting a tech together or knows a better OT auditing procedure then of course attack away at those of us who do. Just don’t expect ALL of the highest trained people to be quiet about it.
That whole episode with Oracle and Jim – it never should have been aired out on the public lines. The OSA handbook could have been used for how that cycle went down. For any faults that Jim might have – he helped and he continues to help and apply the tech to people who want it. Are we all supposed to fall in step with the tech bashing or shut the fuck up? Sorry, I’m not that auditor/CS/supe/WC/cramming officer…
With all due respect to the auditors and CSes who deliver I’ll speak up when it’s not being said because I’ve worked with the tech, cramming, interning, creating auditors for decades…they are by far the most trustworthy, good people I know and so sliming them, slamming them, generalizing about them, third-partying them, black PRing them, (ALL CRAP DONE INSIDE T HE CHURCH) it’s not going to get my tacit consent for as long as it feels as though I give a shit. When I stop giving a shit what those who want auditors and auditing to be criticized – that’s when I stop coming to the blogs and posting. Till then all of you auditors out there know that there are a lot of people who don’t like the auditor/tech/LRH bashing going on and it’s not because we’re fundamentalist robots who left the church but the church didn’t leave us…it’s because we have decades of experience APPLYING it and seeing the results and find that the biggest critics of it don’t, haven’t or can’t or are the “product” of an auditor who didn’t, hasn’t or can’t.
The solution to the first is get trained and apply it so you know what you’re talking about or let another auditor know you’re not winning and need some help and handle it so the auditor who isn’t succeeding gets some help. Help is not open public efforts to destroy reputations.
Thank you for this, Gayle. Very well stated and communicated from a point of certainty based on actual application and result.
Good answer, Gayle. I don’t like to see anyone like auditors with good intentions attacked, whether or not I agree with everything they do or believe. It does make me question the true intentions of the attackers.
I don’t have a dog in this race. I duplicate Gayle’s viewpoint and thank you for it. I also know a little of the back story on it from the Oracle’s side of it, and she has valid points too. I am not here to take sides as OSA would like nothing better than to divide and conquer and get the Indie world fractured and split and fighting. Let’s not give OSA the satisfaction.
None of us are perfect, no matter how highly auditor trained we are. That is why we have Cramming Officers. I would like to take this opportunity to to give a shameless plug for several good tech terminals who can or are Cramming Officers. And there are other terminals that if I forgot to mention you in this post, then please forgive me. The purpose of cramming is to correct mistakes made in auditing etc with the purpose of bringing the auditor up to higher and higher levels of duplication and application of the tech and to stamp out any wrong technology etc.
Silvia Llorens, Class IX, is here fresh from the SO from one of her many tech posts as Cramming Officer. She is a long-time, highly trained and in-tech, high-ARC lovely Scn. I know of people who have had excellent crams from her and she includes cramming ruds, per the tech. She is in the LA area.
Another person who can give crams is Trey Lotz, long-time field auditor in the Indie world. I have heard rave reviews from his pcs about him.
Randy Smith is a trained auditor and CS who audited and CSed on staff for many years. He also is in-tech and high ARC and I have heard good things about him too.
Greta Alexander is in northern or central CA and she is an in tech CS. I don’t know if she does cramming, but I assume she can.
Gary Webber, a Class IX from the Freewinds, is auditing and CSing in the field and I hear good things about him too. I assume he can do crams also.
And this is just a few to mention. If you go on the site where they list all the Indie auditors, you can find even more. The point is to “HAT, DON’T HIT, ” as LRH wrote. Hat them, train then, correct them instead of hitting them or berating them. And if they cannot be corrected, then offload them as they are not suitable for that post. And if you can’t hat them, try ethics. It may be an underlying out ethics situation preventing correct application. The tech is there to be used and we are the only group on earth with the capability to correct itself. So let’s roll up our sleeves and apply ethics and tech to auditors who flub. (And I”m not pointing fingers at Logan and saying he “flubbed.” I don’t really know what went down completely.) I’m saying let’s not tear each other apart. Let’s apply the tech we learned and took with us when we left the church.
Gayle, nice and straight, hits the target every time! I feel very strongly as you do, but for differing reasons. When I first started blogging on MOUALH, in late 2011, it wasn’t long before I found myself the target of an all out (3p) vicious attack. something totally unexpected and for which I was completely unprepared.
I must again thank The Oracle for stepping in, and indicating the mechanisms, and persons responsible for that ‘injustice’ to a ‘newby’ (me) who had then only just learned the basics of switching on a computer. I hadn’t a clue of the existence of the OSA operations, till then.
That of course, fast tracked me into learning what had REALLY being going on behind the scenes. What I could NOT understand, was how Marty (the host) stood by, and allowed this injustice to take place, in his ‘living room,’ Well, much has happened since, and people have gone off in their differing directions, as thetans are wont to do. It’s all okay with me today, and I continue to post in places where I am accepted, and actually acknowledged as a welcomed participant, including MS2. (Nothing as reassuring as good manners, by old fashioned two way comm.) for F–k’s sake! I had (wrongly) assumed ALL Scn’s practiced 2w/c. as a matter of course. I was an ignorant ‘public,’ as I only then found out!
Milestone Two consists purely of people who wish to help, (in an unpressured, high ARC environment) in the tried and tested methods, & systems, developed by LRH, pure and simple. The attacks and 3p against MS2 were a total disgrace by anyone who considers themselves a (truly) enlightened being. The members, are not, as has been alleged ‘lock step’ with everything Hubbard, but on the contrary, appreciative of the workable legacy of ‘help’ via the auditing tech and philosophy he left us as a gift. There is no crime or shame, in being an admirer (as opposed to sheep) of some one who has genuinely helped you, regardless of their imperfections. L Ron Hubbard was that friend for me and still is.
Calvin.
Mike, please don’t post if this is inappropriate or would derail the thread.
Gayle,
1) Are you implying Oracle is using OSA tactics?
2) What you wrote was shocking to me, as it came from you and, as far as I’m concerned, was damaging without saying who originated it.
3) “It would be great if the attitude toward those who deliver actually reflected the value of what they deliver.” – Maybe it does? This is the crux of the matter, isn’t it? Estimation of value is highly individual. I can understand you want respect for what you do. Everyone does. But these blogs are the meeting grounds of many people, some who feel betrayed, angry. Not everyone may be in a position or inclined to give it. Remember, being able to vent (as you just did) is also a vital part of the healing process.
4) I understand you would not see a point in entering a biased or unequal discussion as to your value. Neither would I, but I do not make a potential customer wrong for not understanding what I do, publicly or otherwise. I think there’s so much value we never really appreciate. Consider: no farmers + food companies = no food = you can forget your auditing. No internet = I can forget my work. Everyone contributes to our society.
5) There are many reasons the CoS is failing. I think its demise is systemic. It bore its own seeds of destruction. “Holier than thou” comes to mind. M2 is a questionable experiment, as one might (perhaps rightly) fear a re-enactment, hardly desireable at this or any other stage.
6) Fundamentalism: Collins, def. 3: strict adherence to the fundamental principles of any set of beliefs.
I guess there is no point in further conversation. I’m not going to change your views, and I very much doubt you are going to change mine.
Applause to you, Gayle. I very much appreciate you standing up for those decent and caring people who choose to practice the unadulterated form of their religion outside of the corrupting death grip of the corroded CofS.
It galls me that the fashion of the day allows a group of people to be subjected to hateful religious persecution because their former church has fallen into a state of degradation and insanity. We former church members are more opposed to the crimes and injustices occurring inside the CofS than any non members could ever be. We’ve personally endured the effects of those atrocities both directly and indirectly in our own lives.
So why all the intolerance? If such incessant invalidations were being directed toward any other religious minority, there’d be a firestorm of protest and condemnation on these blogs, but for some reason, we free Scientologists are considered ‘fair game’ by corporate sheeples and non Scientologists alike.
I don’t ask that anyone agree with, or adopt my personal religious views. All I ask is to be granted the same respect for my views as any other person.
Excuse me while I sort one thing out. Because false reports create illusion.
“That whole episode with Oracle and Jim – it never should have been aired out on the public lines. ”
The “whole episode” was never aired on public lines. Not even 1/100th of it. This is just a blatant false report and a wrong indication and a wrong item.
There are a handful of people that have knowledge of the whole episode. Gail is not one of them.
So here, I am being condemned for something that is just a blatant false report.
Gail does not KNOW. She may “know about”. Some very tiny parcel of the whole picture.
For her to suggest that she knows is simply overstepping people’s trust.
And for record, Gail is never going to know, the whole espisode. So when passing judgement and publishing it on the net at these internet comm eves, please keep in mind, nobody applauding her know, and she doesn’t know, and the whole matter is free fall in illusion. Not that I am knocking those types of adventures. Just keeping it real. Let’s not pretend anyone knows the “whole episode”. Because those that do, are not contributing to this kangaroo court.
Let’s keep to some standard of truth out here, we are all up to this task.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=74dKpIKPt8c
Oracle – You are not the only one who has been involved in “internet comm evs” (LOL). Other fights have broken out. You just happen to be one of the most recent. If you were not so highly respected, I doubt anyone would notice what you said, and you’d get the “Well of course everyone is entitled to their opinion and this blog is tolerant of different views” treatment to “handle” you. – Carcha
Laughter! Sometimes, I do like it when the game becomes, “get T.O.”!
A long time ago, (space wars) , when engaging the enemy, “dog” spaceships were sent out to attract the attention of the enemy. They would become noticed and lead the enemy while the remainder of their team could come up from the ranks sideways or behind for surprise attacks. Very, very risky business. Usually volunteer missions as the person doing the attracting rarely escaped. They were more or less, volunteer targets. Quite great fun if one was very talented.
Oracle – Nice tactic, away from the main damage, but as you say, great fun if one was very talented.
This is no fight over here I assure you. It’s me making it clear that my freedom to communicate when I see injustice is no more going to be stopped OUT of the church as it die when I was in. and Kangaroo court?! honestly you dishonor the term if this is what you think a kangaroo court is. Ha! my GOD! I lost a post I love and a group I LOVED and it was because a REAL LIVE kangaroo court occurred. This? a kangaroo court? T.O. communicates more on these two blogs than anyone – if that hasn’t given her the chance to make herself known then I don’t know what will. I don’t communicate to you as I am out of some weird need to engage you as they do on Tony’s blog – I’m a real live example of ME and ME didn’t like it when you tried to incite re the MS2 arrow and ME didn’t like it when you jumped on me like stink on shit for the dialog I addressed to Marty. So I’ve made my point – it’s about the tech, it’s about auditing, it’s about NOT pigeon holing people, or taking sides or what ever the criticism de jour is. It’s me. Just me telling you like it is for me – someone who loves auditors, and wishes you could find it in your heart to show it a little bit more than you have.
Peace
Scientologists can hurt eachother more than critics ever can. That is your biggest weakness as a group
Yes. Isn’t it revealing? I believe it is systemic, and even if DM leaves, it is not going to change.
The solution is to meet eachother in person and engage. Not this blog thing. Or skype if distances can’t be overcome in an acceptable timeframe.
If you interact wich eachother in person, understanding can grow even if viewpoints differ.
Laura Decrescenzo’s case is horrid yet still she has the courage to go up against Corporate Scientology. Also her lack of educational opportunities along with marrying so young and then a coerced abortion. The hours that a person of such an age feels pressured to work is equally disturbing. Hopefully all of these present day cases will have a positive effect for all.
Scientology adherents are not the problem they never were in my opinion. Let Corporate Scientology fall into oblivion a thing of the past.
Then there should be healing as those who wish by whatever means to study or practice Scientology more power to them with all sincerity:)
Please note Mike’s Wife was kind enough to submit a declaration (not sure of the term) in support of Laura’s case.
No matter what your faith or teachings, Please send out positive thoughts to the Decrescenzo, Garcia, Rathbun and Rinder families.
What becomes obvious, when reading said article, is the fact that this church is everything about controlling bodies and extracting money out of people and nothing about a bridge to total freedom. It appears the chuch rather delivers a bridge to total obedience, gullibility, naivité, stupidity, out reality, no actual knowledge, inability, bankruptcy, and finally a lack of desire or will to live. – And it cost a fortune to get all these results.
What I have described here is of course not a church!
This ^^^^
I find it hard to find words, this practice is so evil and appalling. It’s misogyny. The gross neglect of underage children is criminal and I’d love to see this blown into full view and prosecuted. Another peeve strikes me, sorry I have so many, but the level of auditing described is so bad and is nothing in the realm of what I learned and practiced in the 70s/80s. Another product of gag, getting rid of all the seasoned auditors and screwing with training, is that the level of application of the auditing tech is so bad, as to constitute malpractice. These people don’t have a clue as to what their product is, foraging around for pts items like they’re digging a ditch. The idea is to HELP the person from THEIR point of view. I’ve audited children and they are not developmentally able to process the significances and introversion of adult auditing, even done well. They need more sleep than pregnant women. These abuses can cause life long problems. What a disgusting mess to put a child through.
http://youtu.be/UOPUzkatHgQ
Tampa Bay Times, Joe Childs, Thomas Tobin and Maurice Rivenbark did a memorable piece on enforced abortions, it includes Laura’s story.
http://youtu.be/94NeFrDOGF8
This is something beyond mere criminality. It is veering into the realm of Crimes Against Humanity, due to the frequency, and duration of these evil abuses.
If there is an iota of justice, Laura’s case will receive the hearing it deserves.
The exposure of the Human Rights abuses committed by the Cult of Scientology MUST be brought to the attention of the proper authorities minimally, with the FULL WEIGHT of the LAW being brought to bear.
If we are to ever become a just and a decent society, this is where it begins.
A friend of mine let his daughter go into the Sea Org with the same promises that they’d educate her.
Yeah they’d have her a High School valedictorian….
Whatever!
Lies, lies and more lies.
So much for the “most ethical group on the planet”.
In many ways they make the GO seem like paragons of virtue.
Sometimes I think we’d all of been better off if Rock Slamming Dave hadn’t forced Mary Sue to step down for the good of Scientology or whatever.
Is this as good as it gets?
An FBI raid or two is nothing compared to the shit that’s going to go down because of this and other cases working their way through the civil courts right now.
Not to mention the Insurance Fraud cases against Narconon.
The amount of sleaze and slime coming out of the SO these days:
Forced abortions
Imprisonment.
Slavery
In some cases kidnapping
Not to mention the “enhanced interrogation techniques” straight out of the Torture Manual making the Int Base Abu Ghraib West
Kids working over 90 hours a week for pennies like something in a Charles Dickens’ novel. The only thing missing as Fagen who happens to be a Flag right now.
Maybe that’s the reason he’s at Flag.
Maybe he knows that Child Protective services will soon be knocking at the gate.
Please do not equate me with him.
Sorry.
I meant the other Fagen from Oliver Twist.
Guess I could of used Uriah Heep but even though he was a criminal he was a nice guy…
Sorta like some of the GO 😉
They keep good records. Like the Nazis.
What the cult does in the name of “freedom” and “saving the planet” is really disgusting. Only a psycho leader would so this type of justification.
Power to Laura. She’s one tough lady and I’m so happy she’s willing to go through this for the good of so many. Hats off to you Laura.
G
Oracle and Jose I am sorry that you felt the need to drag Milestone Two into this. I am a member and one of only sixteen in the U.S., the rest who are registered number just seventeen more and they are spread across the world.
Oracle I know you had serious trouble with at least one in this group and that is unfortunate but I think you would find that Milestone Two is comprised of folks that appreciate LRH and simply want to see his works survive out in the Independent Field.
I would be happy to contribute to the motion going on in Texas but I am afraid I probably don’t have anything to offer but my sincere wish that Mosey succeeds in stopping Miscavage’s harassment and collects a hefty financial reward for all her trouble.
Well my buddy, I did get some fine response because I REACHED. See Marty’s blog. Even Jim says this is occasion to rise above disagreements. This is fine tone arm action. And what do I get? Some verbal ass whippings (not from you XXOO)
As far as the request: to “again, please stop talking…” I handled my agreement and circumstances and purposes as a deaf mute on the L’s. I am no longer interested in becoming a handicap.
Kind of reminds me of the positively 4th street song.
“You know as well as me you’d rather see paralyzed”
I’ve had to handle some odd purposes, but nothing like that on others. To myself, yes. Not what I would wish for others.
Maybe a bit harsh there TO, Gayle’s intention was to get back
to the issue at hand IMO.
(BTW, do we have another Dylan admirer here?)
Great that you posted that verse Lars! It was going through my mind too………
I am a big Dylan fan, he raised me! Growing up his music was going full time. I’ve been to two of his concerts in the last four years. He can still rock the house!
KFrancis,
I regret anything I have said was taken in offense to anyone.
I am sorry for that, I do not have any ill will towards anyone.
Saving the World or abolishing crime is a false target unless your goal is to fill your pockets with lots of cash. David Miscavige is a Master at this, So anything that emulates this Goal is fantasy no matter what group and how many Halos float over your head.
Public are aware of this.
The Indies should Train Auditors and make CLEARS. Be an individual example,
thats alI have to say.
Don’t be sorry Jose. I was doing a bait and badger trying to get some more back help together. You were being flippant insouciant and funny. These don’t always translate though the internet. Doesn’t mean we are bad people or evil. I agree with you the best path to take it to just get people up the bridge. But I also think David Miscavige is every bodies problem, and everybody should come together to fix this. Scientology as a practice is in a danger condition. It may not even be here 100 years from now. We can handle this situation and the danger in it. It is doable. XXOO
P.S. Invading other people’s privacy can get real funky sometimes. I just do the thing that scares me.
But, Look at the valuable information that flowed out onto the net because I had the courage to ask a simple question. A deposition testimony from Jim Logan could make or break Laura’s case. Every action counts. It may not count today. It could count a LOT next week. We always arrive in “tomorrow”. The outcome was promising. Was I “bad”? Once you agree with those indications you have a collar on your neck.
And reprimands to “keep it all one big secret and behind closed doors” is the tactic of child molesters. Frankly I think that is very funky.
Yes, the Indies should audit and train and make auditors. And “be an example” is spot on. Don’t sweat anything, fights do happen. It’ll all be forgotten by tomorrow. I just see Milestone Two as a peaceful blog trying to form up a community – and I’m not sure what that means – but no reason to disparage them when they are trying to audit and make auditors. I think their quote is from LRH – and that was made w-a-y back when the Co$ was still viable. But no sweat – this is Scientology, and we all have charge.
The voice of sanity.
I wonder what the abortion rate in the Sea Org actually is?
probably as high as the divorce rate…shocking how many divorces in this group there are.
Abortion rate now is pretty low now Aq, mainly because of previous PR flaps such as this, they just let them go now.
As for this Story, I can totally relate to this. I joined the SO at the age of 13 years and 9 months, and I like Laura I immediately felt homesick and wondered WTF I was doing here, within a year and a half I was on the Apollo, and I ended up staying for 25 years. After reading this grueling report, it caused me to have wonder and ponder how the hell did I work for 25 years 70-80 hours a week earning at the most 50 cents an hour. Thank god I got out at the age of 38, before I was too old to do anyting else. I believe the reason most stay there now is they do not have any other choice.
Here’s something to hold up at an RCS protest:
The Most Dangerous Place For A Child To Be Is In The Womb Of A Sea Org Member”.
Is anyone having a problem getting onto Tony O’s site? Since yesterday its been down. I get the “Aw, Snap” comm. Possibly its crashed from too many people trying to read it? Forgive my computer illiteracy.
I’ve been on it everyday, no problems. Keep trying. Hope this works/helps.
http://tonyortega.org/2013/10/11/how-scientology-coerced-a-child-to-have-an-abortion-the-decrescenzo-files/
God bless you, Laura D!!!
Really appalling stuff.
Ditto. I couldn’t find the right words. Laura’s strength is really something.
Yep
The shocking part of all this is that, unfortunately, Laura’s story is one amongst other hundred, at least. This does not diminish what she went through but, is just one example of many, many others that went through this or worse.
But she is speaking out and standing up against the abuses of this moron leader and his minions and that is what counts-courage and confront of evil plus do something about it.
Lets carry on…we are getting there.
The inval and eval is all done “peacefully”, but it is viscous and brutal. And in Laura’s case, they were able to “apply reason” to force her to CREATE / MOCK UP, a purpose to murder her own child. And living with that purpose, has made it hard for her to co exist with herself since it happened! How is that for “evil intentions”?
Hey David! How many women would you reckon under your religious leadership have been implanted with the purpose to “kill my baby”?
Is this how the Sea Org is making the world safe for auditing to occur?
The average life span of a Sea Org member is two years. Are all of these women turned lose on society now?
She’s coming after YOU now David, How does it feel?
…to be on your own
with no direction home
like a complete unknown
like a rolling stone?
Fitting, isn’t it David?
Lars … I didn’t know you could hit that hard! Powie!! You rock!!
My wife made a very astute observation about this when I went over story with her. The “greatest good for the greatest number” line and other more subtle guilt pressures put on her to get an abortion were arguably even worse than a face-ripping type of handling. Why? Because while any woman is likely to regret having an abortion, being made to feel it was all “her fault” is pretty much condemning her to a life of guilt and regret from which there is little solace. Pure evil, there’s no other word for it.
Hey Dave!, Where is the super-duper website for anyone to claim their PC folders?
Baggage Claim B.
Wow!
I need to take a minute today to thank all those who are speaking out against the abuses in Scientology. I was a very active public with my family for a few years. I spent 3-4 days per week at the ORG and even had my son and daughter on courses with me. I would, at that time, think nothing of them continuing up the Bridge and even go so far as to have them train to become Flag auditors. My wife and I discussed the possibilities of both of them joining the Sea Org. After all, what could be better than having two very capable human beings helping others out working to clear the planet while making a more sane work where good people have rights…right?
-I had no idea about the places like INT and walking around in circles in a sandpit for punishment existed. I guess that was to emulate an energy pole and restimulate some whole track torture mockup or at least that’s what I thought after reading History of Man.
-I could have never thought that anyone would use disconnection-especially a “Church” that has entire counseling sessions devoted to inhibited and enforced ARCXs and how to help the person repair that pain. A “Church” that preaches communication creates the opposite of it.
-I had no idea that if you devoted several decades of your life you could one day be fired and sued for writing a letter (Debbie Cook, you’re awesome!) that begs people to look at the internal problems and all the outpoints of policy (as per policy).
-I had no idea that you could force children to work 100 hours plus per week in this country and not having the authorities busting down the doors and tearing the place down while at the same time promoting the evils of “Human Trafficking” (Jenna, much love for you and your family).
-I had no idea that if you talk about what you’ve read on the internet you’d be put under a microscope and subject to fair game.
-I had no idea that the “Church” would hire private detectives to spy on members continuously for years on end (Broeker, et al.)
-I had no idea that after raising the money for an Ideal Org you then gift the building over to some international organization and still pay rent (that’s how I understand it).
Here are all these stories from ex-members and ex-SO on one side and on the other side it’s sites from the COS with all the whoisblahblah.com (Freedom Mag) type utter garbage. The “Squirrel Busters” videos were so far outside of normal behavior I was surprised that they were never arrested for criminally stalking. The absence of humanity or OTness written by the COS’ PR department continues to astound me.
So I like to send out one giant mental hug to everyone that has spoken out against these abuses and one more giant mental hug to everyone who is still trapped into believing that noting exists outside the Church of Scientology community.
Thanks very much for the internet. It’s true communication is the better route.
Peace and Love,
Me
(I’m still under the radar and working to keep my comm lines open to the others left behind.)
Hi Me,
Thank you for your support. Stay tuned for more support for YOU, because the next person flipping into the Independent Movement is going to cause a landslide!
And if this is David Wilson, hang in there buddy! It’s almost over!
Oracle. I forgot to mention that my wife and I are both auditing in the independent field and getting great wins for 1/30th the cost and 3000% more efficientl that the CO$ could ever deliver and all with an OT Auditor. How’s that for straight up and verticle? ( insert maniacal laugh)
Welcome to the data omitted. Personally, I’m happy you didn’t write up twenty pages of Doubt Formula.
Laughter!
Hi Sam in NYC,
What a great write-up. Very glad to know that you now have the information you didn’t have. I hope you all dodged the bullet and are a happy, unified family.
G
We actually relocated to the city in order to be closer to the ORG so I could be a staff auditor. Too many outpoints like this story and many others on the Internet forced us to examine the entire scene and conclude that DM is evil and he has the remaining Scientologists in submission by using fair game and disconnection as his weapons of choice.
I deliver auditing in the indie field so I ended up getting what I wanted in the end. My clients come to me by referral and by my postulates.
Regards,
The Family of Bullet Dodgers
PS. Thanks to David StLawerence
Hi Me
VERY WELL SAID!
Hugs back Sam!!
I am sorry Laura went through what she did. But she is now out and strong and is putting herself on the line so that others can see the evil and so that things can change for the better. Good for you, Laura! You are a very brave woman whose integrity is IN! A friend of mine was an auditor and during her auditor training she audited mainly SO members as her pcs. She has first hand knowledge of SO women being forced to get abortions, and then she would have to try to put their rudiments in (audit out the upset) on them after they were forced to go against their own wishes to end a life. And in doing folder study on pcs she saw case after case of SO members getting abortions and the upset on that that came up in session and had to be handled.
If it has changed now, and now the church is not forcing abortions as much or at all, it is because of Laura DeCrezenzo bringing it to light and to the media and to the world’s attention.
I’m horrified that Laura had to drink bleach to get out of a cult. They should just let people leave when they want to leave and forget forcing them to stay, forget the “Fair Game” of punishing them for daring to leave. The church should just practice “live and let live.”
“You have no power over me”, those words *are* magic.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=emebPH6ysRU&html5=1
(Not that David Miscavige should be compared in the least with David Bowie.)
That movie is one of my “stable Datums”
What cowards, trying to hide behind the frocks of catholics and
compare their confessionals as equal. Well, this time it did not
work, as it is a lie. But of course they conveniently “lost” some
of the most damning part. No worries, what is there to see is
just for the most hardened attorney to confront.
Human rights? What we have on David Miscavige’s “programs” today are this:
He is in the Texas courts fighting for the right to wallow in domestic terrorism.
He is in the Florida courts fighting for the right to take 500k from Luis Garcia and his lovely wife without having to put in any exchange or perform his part of the bilateral contract with regards to that consideration he received.
He is in the California courts fighting for the right to engage in child labor, corruption of a minor, child endangerment, slavery, and forced abortions.
This is what the International Association of Scientology donations are funding this week.
By the way, all of the above are being funded to forward criminal purposes.
By the way, where is the Milestone 2 group? They said on their web site they were going to deal with the crime.
“Milestone Two is engaged in:
5. Dealing with society’s ills, such as literacy, criminality and drugs”
So far this task has been on the backs of Marty, Mike, Karen and David’s victims who ere not too afraid to speak out.
Just extending an invitation for those members to get on over to Texas and contribute as a witness. Every little bit helps. The platform has already been built by others, not even Scientologists, to deal with this crime wave going on under David Miscavige.
Dear Oracle,
The Milestone 2 Group joined the Universe Corps
Panhandling on freeway on ramps., flipping burgers at “Ideal”junk food outlets,
dumpster diving to eat, scraping by elite outside Scientology.
Or soon to be all of the above.
You attack other Scientologists? Odd.
again, please stop talking…
one thing I know about many of them is that they’re auditing. Do you? or doesn’t that count in the battle to recover from and overcome the suppression, it’s just auditing after all.
I don’t understand your calling the Milestone 2 people on the carpet like that, Oracle. They’re about the last people who deserve such a public smack in the face.
Some of you all are tripping. A grade zero is offensive. No wonder we are in such a cluster fuck.
again, please stop talking…
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nG0zxxzvyYE
Gayle, you too, wrote something about Marty on his blog that was shocking and harmful, forwarding a line by saying it was not something you agreed with (I will not repeat it here). Perhaps you should consider that and grant Oracle the freedom to communicate.
Jim Logan has since responded to Oracle. He was very decent about it.
Oracle was just pulling a reverse flow to get a fight to get more people to gander at MS 2.. Oracle you shameless tomboy!
On Rickie Lee Jones … God, I LOVE NYC jazz … NYC … nobody cares who you were, just who you are, and no matter what you do, there’s someone there to cover for you … (unless of course you happen to get in the way, in which you have to move)
Time for a bit of Wise Beard Man’s reconcilliation speach.
Big Clancking Balls
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puWbVnMk614
I’m appalled. I don’t know what to say that will do any of this justice. All I can say is:
Thank you Laura, for pressing on. You’re a champion for all of us.
Thank you Tony, Mike, Karen, and the many others who speak out loud enough to be heard. You give us a voice.
“Ignore Church PR. This is reality”
Well stated Mike.
For the same reason more Police increases Crime
CCHR’s real product is MORE psychiatrists.
Back in the late 1990’s Chutrch PR stated that the Psychs
will be all gone by the year 2000 ! That”s an all out lie thanks
to David Miscavige.
The biggest most affluent Psych on the Planet is David Miscavige.
Jose …………your comment:
“The biggest most affluent Psych on the Planet is David Miscavige.”
Gets my vote for best origination of the day!!!!!!!!!!!!
Biggest, but not tallest 😉
Napoleon 1.70m
Miscavige 1.65m
I did not know that ( snicker)
Ammended to:
“One of the most powerful and affluent Psychs on Planet Earth is David Miscavige”
The all-to-real horror that Laura endured. Seeing the light of day. 18,000 pages of Scientology PC folders. Available to read. And the videos posted here. Watch. Read. Learn. See.
Laura Decrescenzo (pt.1)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jwD0bHPYbq8
Laura Decrescenzo (pt.2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LZ3jdX52PZQ