With two specials in 3 days, scientology has been working overtime on concocting smears about the show contributors. Of course, they NEVER respond to anything the people say, never dispute the abuses or the lies exposed by any of the contributors or on the show in general. They just sling mud.
They have nothing they CAN dispute, so their only avenue is to try to “discredit the source”…
Let’s take their smears in sequence.
Tony Ortega
Of course Tony has long been a target of the scientology smear brigade. But they have nothing new so they roll out their moldy old chestnuts — Tony Ortega “shamelessly shilled for the notorious online human trafficking and child prostitution enabler Backpage” and “once mocked two brave teenagers after they went public with their story of being brutally raped by a career criminal.”
I am not sure it is even worth rehashing any of this drivel — but for the record of new readers who may be coming to this site after watching these shows.
Tony was formerly the editor in chief of the Village Voice. The Voice had controversial adult ads on the website (not in the paper itself), put there by a separate company called “Backpage.” Tony was in charge of the writers and art department of the Voice, but had nothing whatsoever to do with advertising. He worked for Village Voice Media, Backpage was a separate company. But facts are not scientology’s friend. They refer to him as “Backpage Tony”, like they refer to me as “Wife-beater Rinder,” though he had no involvement in the ads. Tony Ortega was not a “shill” for any advertiser on the Village Voice website — clearly scientology doesn’t understand how reputable publications have a wall between editorial and advertising (their publications are ALL propaganda and advertising and there is no distinction). I am not even going down the path of giving the real facts concerning Backpage as it would only be relevant if there was any connection.
As for the “mocking two brave teenagers” — the kings of victim shaming have some nerve making this accusation. Wow. For anyone interested, they can find the SATIRE piece Tony wrote 15 years ago criticizing NBC which had promoted two minors who were rape victims into some sort of perverted TV “celebrities.”
But, of course the real issue here is that scientology responds to not a SINGLE thing Tony says. Ever. They have not responded to anything he has written for the Village Voice or on his blog. He has been doing this for decades. Scientology, with all the high-priced lawyers money can buy have not sued Tony Ortega for reporting anything inaccurately. Hell, they don’t even TRY to refute what he reports.
That really says it all: the big bully with all the legal attack dogs money can buy do nothing but create webpages calling Tony (and everyone else) names.
And finally, because he was never a scientologist, they do not have a stable of POW victims to put lipstick on and sit in front of a camera and read a script about him. So, who do they use as their “authority” — Marty Rathbun! Not even worth discussing the insanity of that or his unhinged speculation.
As a sort of side-note, scientology keeps going after A&E’s “chief enabler, Nancy Dubuc.” Now they are trying to taint her by saying that she “quickly distanced herself” from “her longtime “Project Runway” business partner Harvey Weinstein” — hang on there scientology. You know the old adage about people in glass houses not throwing stones. You know who has NOT distanced themselves from Harvey Weinstein? The star of one of Weinstein’s biggest hits of all time, Pulp Fiction’s John Travolta.
And then they move on to Quailynn McDaniel and Fred Oxaal, “still bitter at having been kicked out of the Church for their inability to uphold its ethical standards.” This is another of their laugh out loud lines that they use for virtually anyone who ever escapes scientology and speaks out. That they think people are bitter because they are no longer trapped inside the scientology bubble is a conceit that is hard to wrap your wits around, until you remember the level of delusion they operate under. Scientologists are certain they are “clearing the planet.”
Apart from that, all they have for Fred is the Barbara Ayash card — what a wonderful woman she was for founding the Concerned Businessmen’s Association and how terrible Fred was as he was “always demanding money.”
In an ironic twist, the person who exposed how scientology used, abused and abandoned Barbara Ayash was none other than Marty Rathbun. See his blog post from August 2011 IAS Atrocities (part two) – Barbara Ayash.
Another IAS Medal Winner has bitten the dust thanks to David Miscavige’s diversion of IAS donations toward suppressing the truth.
Barbara Ayash was one of the early IAS Medal Winners. She was famous for her Set A Good Example campaign. Apparently, her husband funded it for two decades. When he passed away Barbara was left destitute by Miscavige, IAS, and the “church.” Miscavige it seems is too busy bankrupting people with rolling thunder events, while wiping out the human resources goodwill that enables him to do so. Barbara has been reduced to begging on her own in a noble effort to make ends meet and keep the campaign going.
Here is a very recent email from Barabara which serves as proof as to Miscavige’s and IAS’s true, hidden policies with respect to the overblown hype they feed followers in order to clean out their bank accounts.
Nothing inconsistent here — Marty can trash both sides of the fence and still they rely on him as a credible source. Talk about “unvetted.”
Their final jab at Fred — he “graduated from selling rugs to selling cars.” Again glass houses bite scientology in the butt. The head of the Flag OTC is the notorious rug sales queen of Pinellas County, Kay “Bubbles” Champagne. She is lauded and loved. How come she can be a rug salesman and is “A-OK” and nobody else can? And hey, I used to sell cars for a living, and you tried to make a big deal about that too. What do you have against selling cars? It’s better than defrauding people out of their money for promises that are never fulfilled and destroying families. At least people get an actual CAR for their money.
Quailynn McDaniel
With not a shred of anything to use against Quailynn they announce she was “expelled from the Church in September 2015.” Well shit. That means she DOES have current information and must therefore be totally believable. Her information is just 2 years old…
And then they then go where they claim they don’t go (but in fact, do all the time). They allege she was guilty of “sexual misconduct—including threesomes and strip clubs.” Now, even if anyone was stupid enough to: a) believe it or b) think that somehow invalidates what she witnessed, you have to ask the next question: Where did such information come from? Only one of two places: a confessional or private investigators. So, which is it scientology? You want to sling the mud but pretend your hands aren’t dirty from digging in pigshit?
You are despicable and the whole world sees it.
Within minutes of tonite’s episode beginning to air, scientology trotted out their ad hominem attacks on Hana Whitfield and Russell Miller. Of course, they had it all prepared well in advance as they have been saying the same things about them for decades.
Hana Whitfield
Of course, Hana “remains bitter and consumed with hate more than three decades after she was expelled from the Church.” There could be good reason for this, given what was done to her (and has continued AFTER she left), but anyone who has ever met Hana (and I am sure any viewer of the program) would attest that she is not consumed with hate and doesn’t have a cruel or bitter bone in her body. She is all class, soft-spoken grace and good manners. Though she is dedicated to helping those who have been abused by scientology.
Often, the question is asked of people who tell their stories “why didn’t you sue them”? Like Marc and Claire Headley, Hana did. Scientology likes to characterize it as “a failed coup” which is far from the truth. They crow about how Hana’s suit was thrown out (like they crow about the Headley’s) as if this means everything they have said is untrue. These cases are testament to the fact that the judicial system in the US favors those with the most money who can hire the best lawyers. Typically former SO members do not fall into the “wealthy” category. But you know scientology sued the US government for a billion dollars for engaging in a conspiracy against them and that was thrown out. Is that proof that everything scientology says is lies?
But perhaps one of the most vicious assaults leveled at any scientology whistleblower is the concocted assertion that Hana “conspired to murder her father.” This disgusting lie has been repeated over and over and it is “supported” by a “statement” from her ex-husband, a devout scientologist. That statement doesn’t even tie the statements of Hana’s mother (“the conspiracy”) to the actual murder of the abusive, child-molesting father. This claim is cobbled together out of bits and pieces of supposed “evidence” and scientology spent YEARS trying to get any police or prosecutors interested in re-opening the murder investigation. The man who committed the murder was convicted in an open and shut case. I know this was all a concocted story, it was an operation conducted by RTC to try to destroy her by pinning the murder on her. They failed, but they keep asserting it nevertheless.
Russell Miller
It is perhaps appropriate that this is the last smear to be addressed. Because this one is so absurd it belongs in the scientology Hall of Shame.
They start out with: “Once again, Remini must go back three decades to enlist a source.” Hey scientology, you know L. Ron Hubbard died in 1986, and Miller wrote a biography about him — that began when Hubbard was still alive? You still use Dianetics and that was written nearly 7 decades ago? And you think it is still true… So what does that prove?
They then claim: “Miller wrote a ridiculously inaccurate unauthorized biography of L. Ron Hubbard 30 years ago that relied entirely on bitter apostates.”
Well, anyone who has actually READ the book knows that Russell Miller relied on a vast array of sources — from family members to childhood friends to contemporaries throughout Hubbard’s life.
They go on to say: “The book is nothing more than a collection of the usual twisted, misleading and blatantly false allegations about Mr. Hubbard and his accomplishments…” and their final swipe is this:
“Miller littered his text with dozens of misappropriated copyright-protected passages from L. Ron Hubbard’s unpublished writings. Miller’s U.S. publisher dropped the book from sale in the United States following a judicial decision by a Federal appellate court that the publisher of Mr. Hubbard’s literary works would effectively be entitled to collect monetary damages from the sales of any further copies of the book.”
And here’s the rub: scientology DID sue Miller and the book’s publisher. They mounted a lengthy, expensive legal assault on Barefaced Messiah which resulted in publication being halted after about 15,000 copies had been distributed (though it is now once again being published by hero Humfrey Hunter of Silvertail books).
But understand, the basis of the lawsuit was NOT that there was anything INCORRECT in the book. In fact, the EXACT OPPOSITE. They sued on the basis that Miller had quoted unpublished works that belonged to scientology! In doing so, they authenticated the works that he quoted in the book, claiming he had made unauthorized use of them.
So, his book is actually verified and validated by scientology. AND SCIENTOLOGY HAS NEVER SUED OVER ANY SUPPOSED INACCURACY IN THE BOOK. Not in the US or anywhere else in the world.
Meanwhile, the “LRH Biographer” (Dan Sherman) has been working for more than TWO DECADES on the “authorized biography” of L. Ron Hubbard. It will NEVER be published because there are so many lies and inconsistencies that cannot be accounted for.
Thus the 3 decades old Miller biography IS the official biography of L. Ron Hubbard.
Game, set and match.
BTW — if you have not read this book, it provides fascinating, well-documented and detailed insight into the Life and Lies of L. Ron Hubbard.
Where would Leah be today if she had never done her Bridge work ? In Brooklyn with 6 kids and no fathers in sight maybe ? She sure wouldn’t be where she is today. David Miscavige was Declared in 1982. But,with the help of Govt.Agent,Alan Hubbard was able to squash any communications from going up the line.I don’t agree with anyone bashing LRH obviously,but as far as bashing D.M. ..well ..no one has bashed enough ! D.M. is a Failed Class 5 auditor who was thrown out of Saint Hill England in 1975 for punching his 9 year old female PC. He’s managed to put $50 million of Church money into his own account. And then destroyed Scientology with GAT 1 and 2,making Scientology UNWORKABLE ! I’m glad I’m in the Freezone where the Tech is still pure LRH and the Ls cost me a total of $11,700 instead of the $ 80,000 the Church would have charged. And my auditors were on the Apollo and some were personally trained by LRH.Anyone who is still on staff at the Orgs is wasting their time and promoting an UNWORKABLE TECH in Violation of KEEPING SCIENTOLOGY WORKING. In the Freezone one gets the real Tech and the Freezone has all the levels up to OT 40 available and released. The D.M. Church will never have these levels. D.M.’s church doesn’t even have the correct OT8. Anyway….. I’m Still trying to get my refund after following all the proper routing of D.M.’s Church of the Out Ethics and Bizarre….Policy says; ” Immediate refund,” but that’s not happening. I would appreciate it if Leah could assign a Lawyer for a Class Action Refund based on Fraud because D.M. changed the Bridge and No One is getting LRH Tech when they believed they were.
You are horrendously deluded. Your first two sentences are both bizarre and disgusting.
If you are an example of “Keeping Scientology Working” (while using “up to OT 40” that Hubbard NEVER wrote) then I think everyone on earth who reads this will be revulsed at the concept of being a “deedicated scientologist.”
Yuk.
I would not normally allow a comment like this to even appear. But it is SO out there, I thought it illustrative of a point. Fundamentalist scientology is ugly.
Mike,
Is it just me, or has the blog attracted a lot of “pro-Scientology types” recently, ranging from people who “do it on their own” to full-blown CoS “Moles & Trolls” ?
Scientology must be “cleared” from the Earth . . . God bless you & Leah, Mike !
Dave F.
Steve – You would ‘appreciate it if Leah could assign a class action lawyer for a refund ?’ WTF ? Are you so deluded that you think the world owes you favors, like assigning lawyers to assist you because that is what you need and want ? Open your own wallet and hire legal counsel to start a class action suit.
Why noone mentioned that Jack Parsons was one of the founders of the legendary JPL (currently NASA’s top arm)?
Why would they? That was 70 years ago. Do you think Cassini dropped copies of The Way To Happiness on Titan and Enceladus?
I was fortunate to read Miller’s Barefaced Messiah back in 1990 and it set me on to the path of fascination with Scientology. I have been given the privilege of being an outsider all this time, watching the rise and fall and fall of this vile cult.
It has been so gratifying to see the courage, strength and tenacity of those who are exposing the machinations of this organisation. In a world where it seems okay to not stand up for others, you are breaking through!
Mike, I can’t seem to find any updates on the Garcia’s arbitration…what’s going on with that?
Kangaroo Court arbitration conducted. Await next move. See Ortega’s blog for update on the “arbitration.”
Great job! Loved the episode Mike, Leah and CREDIBLE AND INFORMATIVE contributors! Great job everyone!
I hope you and Leah continue your A&E program for as long as the gig is up for Scientology. I am sure there is no shortage of material especially as more people come forward. Just read today about Danny Masterson raping women and scientology covering it up for him. Wow.
Another brilliant takedown of $cientology’s bullshit.
As a side note, thank you for writing what you did about Tony. I know you’ve written much more in his defense (and just in general praise of what he’s done over the years) as the two of you obviously have a ton of respect for each other.
I mention this because a few people here have often criticized Tony for this, that or the other. The guy was never in the cult but puts his ass on the line every single day. He’s a stand up guy who’s done a hell of a lot to expose $cientology…just as you have, Mike.
I just had a chance to watch this episode, so Plz forgive the ‘lateness’ of my comment or if it is redundant to previous observations.
If anyone out or in, had any doubts about HOW ‘slyology’ lies, please take a moment to consider LRH himself. In the interview about his family, Lafeet is asked about his wives. When asked about his second wife, he responds, “I never had a second wife.” Well, I have no doubt he and the rest of his minions truly believe this. Why….because LRH married Sara prior to getting a divorce from Polly. In most states, a bigamous marriage is not valid, ergo ‘non-existent’. Just a grain of sand to make the mountainous lie believable.
This is how they lie. It is so insidious and damaging.
With more and more documents being released regarding LRH and his dealings with his 3 wives, the government including approaching the FBI himself during tje McCarthy era to 1) set up wife #2 as a communist or driven crazy by a communist or had lots of secrets from Jack Parsons gotten by less than morally acceptable means and 2) to introduce Dianetics to the government as a way to root out the “ illness of communism” , the more the CoS will find themselves unable to continue to use the “ its a lie!” routine. (see Tony Ortegas’ link to this article about Hubbards trouble in 1951). The world is beginning to see that they have a culture of lying both by policy and training therefore they cannot be believed no matter what.
As for us civilians l think it is up to us to be welcoming and understanding so that members are more willingnto come out. Afterall, “we” are the enemy and are “evil”. We need to be a soft place for these folks to land once they fet the courage to walk out and also to support the folks who are brining forth the official documents that will help bury scientology
One of the things that smacked me in the face of this episode was that LRH is a huge, long standing and naked case of “Stolen Valor.” I had been briefed on Lafayette’s (okay I love how Nathan Rich refers to him) faked military record back in the early 80s, so it shouldn’t have been an “ah hah!” moment in the episode for me, but it was.
Stolen Valor disrespects the vets who have actually sacrificed. Lafayette disrespected them, and Co$ does by still repeating it. Co$ disrespects them continually. I know that Lafayette’s stolen valor was used to sell CO$ to my cousin when it hooked him while he served. It’s what they fed me too when I walked through the doors of the mission with my cousin. (my briefing came before I did that)
CO$ should be asked why they continue to steal this, every Veterans and Memorial Day.
(my ex was a war wounded Nam vet. I have no truck with those who steal valor)
Seems to me the name ‘Lafayette’ was stolen valor as well.
THE TRUE STORY OF SCIENTOLOGY
The true story of Scientology is simple, concise and direct. It is quickly told:
1. A con artist develops a philosophy on how to make money using the ‘religion angle’; 2. People find it interesting; 3. People find it doesn’t work; 4. People pass on this information to others; 5. It dies.
It baffles me that Diana Hubbard has less power & authority than Miscavidge. She’s the creator’s daughter after all! I can’t help but to see it as sexism.
This entire last 7 years since reading Amy’s book ‘Abuse At The Top’ and wandering myself the best I could out of the prior hummm… 1974-2010 = 36 years of dedication to L. Ron Hubbard was all so worth all the pain and heart crushing reality I had to face to feel so good and whole now.
Even without my Daughter #3 and Son #2, my friends for 40 years, my wonderful husband of 24 years, my clients and former business income.
It’s all worth it to see it all crumbling down.
I will have a Thanksgiving this year that is like the best all you can eat buffet when you’ve been starved for a long long time.
All your comments give me hope ~ thanks you all 🙂
Love to you Cece.
❤️
Hugs to you, Cece.
Several decades ago a friend married in to a scientology family, and was never heard from again (by me). This intrigued me enough to investigate, so I bought Hubbard’s Dianetics and Miller’s Barefaced Messiah. The former was practically unreadable and I soon dropped it, while Barefaced Messiah was the opposite.
Russell Miller’s book is a work of scholarship, while Hubbard’s is a work of fiction seemingly written by a dysfunctional committee.
I’ll leave it to readers to guess which one I’d recommend.
I read Dianetics in the late 70s just after taking a psychology class. In the margins I wrote things like “bullshit,” “all that’s happening in desensitizing the word, no actual help provided,” “bullshit,” “bullshit, childs brains are different,” “bullshit,” “not backed up with. . .”, “bullshit” . . . .etc.
Russell Miller’s “Bare Faced Messiah” has end notes for every chapter,includes a bibliography and is a proper source material for any student to use in writing a paper on Scientology, which many may start doing.
If I didn’t already have my research topic for my last history class I might have chosen CO$. (Mike and Leah have 2 seasons of “primary source material” – I’d have been in heaven.) As it is my paper is on female mystics of the 1400-1600s
You are so totally right about Miller’s being a scholarly work.
BTW Mike “Bare Faced Messiah” is available on Kindle (yay!)
Amazon carried the book Barefaced Messiah some months. Im sure now too. I can’t under stand how LRH can falsify military records..
Im sure he knew it would be found out
There was a hole in his knowingness – he never factored in the internet.
Oh, but wait….Lafeet & lyology say the military records were essentially ‘cleansed’ of his citations and achievements by the government to protect his identity as a Cia operative. I believe the term used by the cherch was ‘sheep dipped’. ?
Nothing like honesty and case gain, eh? Hubbard didn’t practice what he preached, and therein lies the source of cognitive dissonance that every Scientologist will sooner or later encounter.
Just watched the episode – wow!
If any Scientologist still sitting on the fence sees it, I don’t see how they can remain in, with the increased amount of cognitive dissonance they’d be carrying around. Talk about mental mass!
The curtains are coming down on one of the greatest con jobs in history, and the legacy of L. Ron Hubbard (and thus Scientology) is slowly being dismantled.
I’ve watched every episode and some I’ve watched more than once. I have great respect for you, Leah Remini and the many brave guests you’ve given the chance to tell their stories. These creatures who ARE the “Church” of Scientology should be held accountable to the greatest extent for their crimes. This organization is clearly based and executed on criminal activities. After being introduced to dianetics by a friend about 20 years ago, I read some of the book written by Hubbard, ” “Dianetics”, and quickly dismissed the whole idea considering it was a fad of Hollywood that would pass. It never crossed my mind again until seeing the A & E shows. Although I am not and have not been personally affected by this phenomena, I want to thank you and your constituents for bringing these horrific events and the beast that causes them to light. Thank you all for your contribution to the wellbeing of mankind.
If Leah and Mike’s show goes to (here’s hoping) a third series then the Dorkendwarfer Midgetfuhrer will be go into a meltdown with incandescent, and utterly ineffectual, rage. He simply has nothing more but shouting in a vacuum and tantrums left to stem the retreating tide of the end of the “World’s Greatest and Fastest Growing Religion.”
” “The book is nothing more than a collection of the usual twisted, misleading and blatantly false allegations about Mr. Hubbard and his accomplishments…”” Change a few words and it sums up the current state of the attack hamster that is $camology.
“The smears are nothing more than a collection of the usual twisted, misleading and blatantly false attacks by Scientology…”
?
?
“At least people get an actual CAR for their money” ? Excellent, Mike! I’m gonna use that!
If anyone needs a nice ride, you can find me on LinkedIn. Thanks Mike!
Mike another great episode. I’m hoping that a lot of still-in, UTR, etc. watched last nights show. Many I am sure have no idea about this LRH data. Indeed this was “Truth Revealed” and should enlighten them to walk out the door.
L. Ron’s Great Grandson…Jamie DeWolf. Beat poet. This 8 minutes is filled with information and a great performance. Last show should end with this…drop mic moment.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ciupsqkLLkQ
“flatline your mind for a fee. ”
!!!
Oh, I love flatlining! It’s a real trip!
Wow wow wow POWERFUL!
+1
Truly worthwhile and captivating – expert turns of phrase delivered with confidence and style. The TRUTH from the genetic heir of LRH is a revelation. Bravo and thank you for making this available.
Particularly amusing was Marty’s dismissive comment that the Co$ hasn’t sued Tony because they are not in the habit of suing people from whom they “can’t collect.”
I do have to give Marty credit for making that statement with a straight face
So, David Miscavige must have thought that Debbie Cook (just to use a recent example) had millions in the bank after spending a lifetime in the Sea Org, when he sued her.
When has Scientology EVER shied away from suing ANYONE?
I just hope whatever it was that Marty is getting for making a complete jackass of himself is worth it.
Yeah — I doubt David Mayo was a “deep pocket” or any of the other “squirrels” or any of the internet people like Keith Henson.
Scientology has absolutely made a habit of suing many people from whom they would never collect anything other than a pound of flesh.
OK, I am trying to play catch up here and after watching every episode of Leah’s and Mike’s show I have started to read all I can about “scientology”. I read Rathbun’s book and it seemed to me he finally had his eyes opened about the abuse and lies? But now? what the hell happened? Seems like he is back on the scientology bandwagon? He seemed to be very vocal and helpful to people who wanted to get out and now he is making videos trashing people who have gotten out. Am I missing something here? I am really confused about this, did he fold to some sort of threat or pressure or money or something to seemingly switch sides again?
On a side note, my heart breaks for you Mike every time I see you hear a story of abuse or neglect and the pain on your face couldn’t be more true and real. You and Leah are doing so much good by airing this a whole new generation of potential victims and their families will be saved from the ravages of scientology because of this show and the truth coming out. Bravo to you both!
Well, if Rathbun is back in Scientology, we ought to locate his address and send a bunch of toothbrushes to him . . . He’s going to NEED them !
I have no idea how any of you have stayed sane (or, made your way back to sanity!) We stayed in a hotel once in Niaraga Falls (my first boyfriend) and he was a super churchy guy (Not scientology, thank you for not capitalizing it by the way!) and he opened the drawer beside the bed to see a church of scientology ‘bible’. The hotel was already skanky enough, we were in there for about 3 minutes max and went to get our money back… “Bet you had sex in it and messed up the sheets…” (The sheets *were* messed up but because we were looking for — and found — um, pubic hairs…. and the bible)…. I told her if my sex life is only 3 minutes long, I have nothing to live for then. She very reluctantly gave our money (only because there were 4 new guests in line and she didn’t want to hear my big mouth spew what we saw in there…) So, the bible was the tipping point….
anjichap ,
“Bible” ???
The only Bible you might have seen in a hotel room would have been a Gideons King James Bible.’
Did you mean a “Dianetics” book ?
Dave F.
If you stayed in the Niagara Falls hotel we stayed in (right on Horseshoe Falls) along with the Bible, there is “The Book of Mormon”
Eeeeeek!!! ?
How about a smear video from the CO$ linking A&E to Big Pharma and the psychs with Mike and Leah on their payroll. Since only the sheeple would see it, they could kill two birds with one stone, namely, the discrediting of these bitter, nasty people while using it as a fundraising tool.
They could use Anne ‘Do I Look Brainwashed’ Archer as the spokesperson, following in her son’s footsteps.
Mike, you might want to edit one unfortunate phrase in the part about Tony Ortega: “minor rape victims”. I know that what you mean is that these rape victims were minors at the time, not that the crimes they suffered were minor. I just wouldn’t want you to be quoted apparently saying something awful.
Thanks — fixed
There is nothin’ like a Dave
Nothin’ in the world,
There is nothin’ you can name
That is anything like a Dave!
Nothin’ else is built the same,
Nothin’ in the world
As the hard and little frame
Like the silhouette of a Dave!
There is absolutely nothin’ like the frame of a Dave!
There is nothin’ you can name
That is anythin’ like a Dave!
There are no books like a Dave
No other crooks like a Dave
There are no drinks like a Dave
And nothin’ thinks like a Dave
Nothin’ acts like a Dave
Abuses facts like a Dave
There ain’t a thing that’s wrong with anyone here
That can’t be cured by getting him clear
Of vengeful, cowardly, insane, good for nothin’ Dave!
Well, Moxie, that appears to be a wrap for “South Pacific”.
“Sound of Music” was bidden a fond farewell last week.
They were great, while they lasted.
Now, assuming you’re proceeding demolition-wise in chronological fashion from early to late, would we be all well advised to hurry hurry hurry and listen as much as possible to the next tunes on “Moxie’s List” – from “The King And I”, “West Side Story” and “‘Bye Bye Birdie” – while we still can? 🙂
Dear Aqua – thanks for your appreciation – I am always open to suggestions. I usually just run with whatever strikes my fancy. Look for another fun song soon, as Dave and his flock of minions provide such excellent fuel for my incendiary wit. ?
I await breathlessly 🙂
Having performed in South Pacific back in the ’60s, I really appreciated your substituted lyrics! LOL
Glad you liked them Peter.
Fascinating read. In all the stuff I’ve ever fooled around with, taken seriously, joked about or cried over, Scientology rates as the most fascinating (bewildering come to mind too). It just won’t lay down and die! No matter how many times it gets shot or shoots itself! It’s like re-reading the story of Count Dracula over and over out of a book with the last 20 pages missing.
I’ll pinch a line from Spook out of Star Trek. “Fascinating Jim,” but change it slightly to, “fascinating Mike, are you correct in assuming your phaser is functioning correctly?”
Sheesh, Scientology and the way it masquerades as a life form… I never knew you could stack shit that high!
(Travolta and Weinstein???, … not distancing as yet hey? mmmm… let the A=A=A out of the bag on that one! Once again, fascinating!).
Geezers, that’s Spock, I meant to say. Even with the extra 5 minutes I still screw up!
Stupid auto correct gets most of us, one time or another! Eh?!
I keep tellin’ you, over and over again, lay off the hard stuff.
Haha—look who is talking, Old Surfer Dudeld! Lol
Is it morning again? I’m not a morning person, even the cat knows that!
Isn’t ‘morning’ code for 3pm?
Depends which hemisphere.
I guess you pulled it in (as have I on occasion).
I sometimes get in trouble when I pull it out.
Me too IYawn!
Laughter!
This was such a great special, thank you Mike and Leah and your guests.
Fully exposing the lies of “Hubbard The Magnanimous Infallible” is pulling the lynch pin on belief in scientology.
Thank your for everything you do.
Always.
Mike,
For those who are interested, “Bare-Faced Messiah” can be downloaded FREE, in PDF format here.
I suggest doing so rapidly, before “someone” gets it taken off the internet.
https://www.holysmoke.org/cos/books/bare-faced-messiah.pdf
More books :
http://www.holysmoke.org/cos/books/
God bless you, Mike !
Well, I am going to post this comment as I know it is well intended and I am a big fan of getting more information available to anyone who wants it.
BUT….
If you have not read this book I ask you TO BUY IT. That way you are supporting the publisher and author for their work and the risks they took in writing and publishing it.
Please BUY THE BOOK.
Mike,
Thanks . . . I only wanted to get the information out to everyone, ASAP, and a PDF file is easy to share quickly.
Dave F.
I bought the book and try to purchase a book from whomever appears on the show to show my support. We don’t want to follow in scientology’s footsteps and take advantage.
Well said, Mike; whoever writes anything critical of scientology should get every penny of the royalties they’re entitled to.
I always make it a point to buy the book of anyone who leaves Co$, of the FLDS, etc. because this is one of their ways of being able to survive outside the cult, which has probably left them with nothing.
I DID buy one !.. As soon as I saw the title of Miller’s book while watching the episode, I went directly to Amazon and ordered mine. Can’t wait to get it ! Meantime, I read all of the “Look Inside” feature that amazon offers with it.. What an outstanding episode that was !.. A&E should repeat That one for a long time… I sure hope you guys get a 3rd season !!.. You are helping Sooo many people !
Thank you Dave. I’d have to collect cans for a couple days to buy one myself. Then I’d have no room to store the hard copy in my 192sq feet of living space. I’ll get a Kindle some day and buy my own. So thanks :). And thanks Russell and you all exposing truth 🙂
Scientology, the Co$, is always so, so boring. Consistently. YAWN. Oh, and vicious and nasty, and untruthful. This is just drivel for the conned and manipulated, the enslaved, the blind and willfully ignorant ‘faithful’. Poor lost mindless souls.
I learn SO MUCH on every episode. Mostly I sit there with my mouth hanging open like a dork. The technology that Scientology sells clearly falls apart the deeper you guys go in exposing LRH; how he died, how they lied about it, and the claims he made about himself ~ none of which was true. It’s just astounding.
Thank you so much for going through the tick list of lies. Tuesdays 11/14 episode hits to the core, right at the base of this horrible organization. YOU ARE going to save so many people future heartache… and without doubt, you are setting free many who are ensnared.
You are So brave! So Smart! I’m a fan!!!
Hey, Way, we dorks resent your accusation! Us dorks are proud dorks!
Dorks gotta stick together! Count me in!
I love how you recognized those who came before you last night. That is how I first became interested in this cult – watching youtube videos of some of these people. I would love to see a show of how they are doing now.
I can’t decide which was the most delicious part of this! This was amazing.
Yo Dave,
We love you good buddy! I gotta give You some kudos for the great job You did today in totally derailing all of the true stories being disgusted on the Aftermath. (no typo btw) You really know how to dead agent all of the folks stepping up to go on record. I really liked the zinger You use to completely neutralize Your opponents Dave:
“still bitter at having been kicked out of the Church for their inability to uphold its ethical standards.”
I can tell You Dave that You have really nailed it this time. The Hole world believes You with absolute 100% certainty Dave. You are sooooooo perceptive! How did You know that all of us out here on the fringes are “still bitter”? Perhaps it comes from Your having the Ohhhh Tea Nine data. Or maybe because You are such a wonderful caring thingy that the millions of followers continue to do deep knee bends for You whenever You speak.
Either way Dave, I say You go for the jugular and send one of Your toys (like the one You sent to Monique at her workplace) to the A&E producers. That will knock it out of the park Dave. You are soooo awesome ………………………….. Your Donkey Kong buddy at target too must be happy as a clam Dave!
??? I knew you would come through Coop.
You write the best notes to dave. I think he must read them too because he just keeps doing what you praise him for. Great job!
Thanks Mary. I can’t help myself because Dave is such a ‘warm and fuzzy’ doing tremendous acts of good will all the while salvaging the planet.
Yo Dave,
Why not step forward and take Your rightful place in history good buddy. Start in Your SuMP ……………… head down from there. Shouldn’t be a problem Dave.
Lou, Lou, Lou!!! Goddamn it, come when I call you! I told you to terminatedly handle that CICS Newcomer. Why am I still reading his shit? You have 48 hours to get him silenced or there’ll be hell to pay. Now bring me my Scotch and get the fuck out of my space.
BTW Lou,
I am totally handleable and would love to make amends for all of the transgressions I have committed. If you make a visit to the CST compound in Tuolumne, I am just a few minutes away by car or you could even walk on over for a friendly chat. Get directions from my daughter if you need some inside info. I still live in the same house she was raised in.
Anyway, if you find you are growing a pair, ask Dave for an LOA from His bedside and come on out to the fringes and deal an effective blow to the enemy.
Yo Dave,
whaddyathink good buddy? I know you need to send Your minions out in pairs so You could have Mike Sutter come along with Lou to be sure she didn’t blow from Your little pop stand. Just sayin Dave.
Hey, another thing while I’m thinkin of You Dave, how are those signatures coming along on Your petition to stop The Aftermath? That was really a great idea wasn’t it! You da man Dave!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dang …… I wish I could be more like You.
Thanks Newcomer, that means a lot. Unfortunately, Dave’s got me by the short and curlies if you catch my drift.
Perhaps the NSA can get you his whereabouts and afford you the opportunity to deliver a personal message to your “pal”. (wink)
Gotta run.
ML,
Lou
???You got it going ON Coop!
Thanks for all you are doing Mary to rid that cult…you are truely my hero….brave lady!!!
Newcomer that reply is funny.The knee bends comment had me laughing out loud. Just awesome. Keep up the zingers .Because they are treasures.
Thanks webber. My only wish is that Dave had a few more clever OSA bots to contribute to the blogs. That fellow Idiotproof was pretty lame but at least we know there is still a twitch or ‘too’ left at the factory.
Yo Dave,
Why not send Ed Parkin out to set the record straight in the aftermath of all this great PR You are gettin these days? Last I heard Ed was the vice president of yer cherch. So here is the deal. Yer cherch has this thing about misunderstood words Dave so I wanted to be clear (not yer definition of clear .. Dave!) on what Ed is really doing all the while he is vice presidenting and all that stuff. So I checked out what a president of vice does and sure enough ….. it all became clear!
Per Websters New World – fourth edition:
Vice – (it’s a noun Dave, not a verb) a) an evil or wicked action, habit,or characteristic b) evil or wicked conduct or behavior; depravity or corruption c) prostitution
So it seems Ed would be perfect for the job of representing You and yer cherch Dave. Whadayasay good buddy? Be sure and send him with a towel though, last time I met with him back in Your HGB building in 2008 it seemed like he drooled a bit but maybe he was anticipating a cash dono. Sorry, I digress Dave. Have another wonderful day on the internet!
Gee Newcomer… well, I never… you’ve convinced me, Dave’s got my vote, he really stands out from the crowd!
Newcomer,
Good job for giving an acknowledgement to Dave and of his ‘good works’. Credit must also go to Hubbard for enumerating those ‘high ethical standards’ for all of Scientologists to follow, and to exemplify those standards Hubbard followed them to the letter. Such truthfulness. Such loyaltyness. Such integrityness. Such humanityness. Such openness. Such suchness.
How, oh how indeed, would we little Beings rise above the mud if it were not for Lron and Dave setting the ‘high ethical standards’ as exemplified in their behavior for us to follow.
jim
PS: Dave, I lost my copy of the HIGH SCIENTOLOGY ETHICAL STANDARDS manual, so will you send me a fresh copy? ML
Hubbard turned into Donkey Kong? Oh, wait…my bad. He turned into a clam. I’ve eaten many of his family.
This thread has made my day.
Well, your posts always makes my day!
Someone once said I was as thick as a post. Is that included in the same ‘day making’ formula?
No. Actually you’re as thick as a brick.
I would never, ever, fool around with Jethro Tull. Not even a little bit. I’ll stick with post. Let’s get our religiously good music gurus in some sort of order.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BV-ASc0qkrM
for you young’uns
Fantastic information and well explained. Thank you Mike and Leah.
Loved the show and hope it continues until this cult is nothing more than a memory.
🙂
Well said
Mike ,great show last night. Going directly at Hubbard is the “achiles heel” of Scientology. I would like to see more of Hana. I’ve watched all of her YouTube clips. She is a class act. She was right there with LRH. She knew him,she speaks the truth.She is lovely, and she is believable, and doesn’t come off as being bitter.
Leah and Mike I just finished the latest aftermath of the aftermath. Mike your closing words giving recognition to the pioneers who courageously went before you showed the great and humble man that you are.
You touched on what kind of legacy lrh left, one of destruction greed and lies, but the legacy you and Leah are leaving is one of courage, strength and righters of wrongs.
You are opening the eyes of so many people, don’t ever stop because what you are revealing is the pattern cults use. This in itself will help release members from other cults not just sci.
Thank you for your strength and conviction to accept your part, make amends and move forward to helping others. You may not agree, but I truly believe God put you on earth to experience sci and then expose the truth. This is an honorable mission, may God bless and keep you both safe.
“You know who has NOT distanced themselves from Harvey Weinstein? The star of one of Weinstein’s biggest hits of all time, Pulp Fiction’s John Travolta.”
Well Mike, if Travolta had listened to you and not taken the role, he wouldn’t even have to consider distancing himself from Weinstein, so you come out smelling like roses yet again! 🙂
Seriously though, the saddest part of their smears is Hana. As if anyone could believe that this beautiful, sweet, soft-spoken woman has an ounce of hatred in her heart.
Love it Mike. Thank you so much for all you and Leah are Doing. These people are being exposed and they seem to be shaking in their shoes. Much love to you and Leah as well as all of the people coming forward.
Great piece Mike. Scientology never grew up past kindergarten where this type of name calling and bullying is common. I always knew Scientology was something to stay away from. So glad you, Leah, and the brave contributors stand up and expose Scientology for what they are. Money hungry power seeking idiots who abuse their members. Kudos!
The fact that ANY adult falls for the Scientology crap is beyond my comprehension. I can see a child believing what they’re told. Especially if the only human contact that child has is with other Scientologists. But an adult? Can’t fathom it. I am a lifelong Hell and Heaven believing Catholic. However, I double dog dare a group of Priests to come to my home and take my children off to some “boarding” school or to become a Sea Org member. Absolutely would not happen under any circumstances. My soul could rot in eternal damnation but my children would remain with me. I suppose a true Scientologists would say that I am not a true believer since I would run that risk. Because obviously a true believer would blindly follow their religious leaders instructions and/or wishes. In my mind, my duty to my children outweighs my duty to any church. I watch your show every time it’s on. I do independent research on the topics you discuss and the people you present. I invariably walk away shaking my head and thinking “WTH”? I cry in utter frustration and disbelief when I hear about young adults whose parents disconnected from them simply because they couldn’t believe in Scientology or parents whose children disconnect from them for the same reason. I had a very difficult time watching the show you did about the twin young men – one of whom committed suicide. The piece you did on Paul Haggis was especially mind blowing because here is a man who obviously is very intelligent and not the least bit sheltered and he fell hard for this crap to the point that he brought his sister into it. When I saw the video of his sister smearing him and then learned that she had died before they could reconnect, it broke my heart. How can an intelligent and worldly adult fall for this? I had heard years ago that Scientology offered struggling actors/actresses success if they joined, so for years I had considered Scientology to be a Hollywood thing. A way for a struggling actor/actress to “sell their soul” for success and while I shook my head in bewilderment, it never entered my mind that the cult was worth further investigation. But your show is opening my eyes to the fact that Hollywood is a small part of the insanity. Then you have the whole “climb the ladder and you can beat cancer” thing. Didn’t Hubbard die from cancer? That one fact would forever prevent me from ever joining this cult. Yes, I said cult – because Scientology is not a religion. In my book a religion is formed to worship something….what do Scientologist worship? I know they follow Hubbard’s teachings but what do they worship? What exactly is their Deity? I wish this blog was interactive.
I understand how hard it is, for those of us who have never been involved with a cult, to just follow and do whatever they are told to do. It’s especially difficult to understand the CO$ teachings about children. We need to understand how a cult uses brainwashing. First, we need to understand what brainwashing is! Mike’s posts always have a listing of books etc. Please read some. We cannot just blame the adults and “look down” on them. It’s so important to have some knowledge of Scientology so that we can understand and truly give empathy and support. Also,. NEVER say you could never do things they’ve done. Under the right(actually wrong) circumstances we NO NOT know what we would be do…only what can we think, or more accurately, HOPE, we would do.
Ms. Cromley: Thank you for responding to my comment. I was amiss and insensitive in speaking as I did and I’m glad you called me out on it. To be honest, I was speaking of my present state of mind at the age of 60. At this age, there is no way in Hell anyone could brainwash me. However, when I was younger (in my late teens and early 20’s) I believe I might have fallen for some (if not most) of this crap. My father was a master brain washer and intimidator and I shamefully admit that I allowed him to control me fully for a number of years. Even after his death, I found myself winching if I even thought something of which he would disapprove. It took me years to overcome this. I should not “look down” on people for things that I do not fully understand. I think my past is exactly why I am drawn to topics such as this. But for the Grace of God type of situation. I suppose I fell into a typical human mindset of “it didn’t happen to me so I must be stronger and better than them”. I think it will take people like you to call BS when they hear and/or read comments like mine in order to educate and change mindsets. I hope to learn and I hope to be called out whenever I make ignorant comments.
I think we need to understand that falling under the spell of this cult is very insidious – and it happens little by little, one baby step at a time. First the intro courses on communication to help the student with self confidence and self presentation for interviews and auditions. And it really helps. Then auditing, when you tell your story and share your innermost thoughts. Just like when you’re in therapy and get to the bottom of your fears and the feeling is liberating. But if an electrical current is being passed through your body for hours on end and you are being asked the same question again and again, eventually you enter into a state of hypnosis. Do this for a few years and you are deeply hypnotized. By now, most of your friends and loved ones are involved in this crazy thing and even if you have an Earth-shaking epiphany and realize you don’t belong in sci, it might be very, very difficult to disentangle yourself without losing the only support system you have. I think us never-ins are truly appalled when we start to learn about sci and think we would never join. All these things we learned from the show, the books and videos; Zenu and body thetans, LRH and his craziness, the prison camps for children, disconnection and the obscene amount of money you have to pay to go up the bridge are not shared with beginning scientologists. Very few people would join if they knew what we know, and that’s why all the very articulate and courageous exes who have risked disconnection and harassment to tell their stories will bring down this diabolical cult. It may be by attrition or by the government rescinding their tax status, but it will happen. BTW, you are not ignorant. You’re just going through the process of disbelief. It’s hard to take in.
Susan, have you ever been audited? If so, did it hypnotize you/? Just curious.
Actually, never mind. I just re-read your post and you stated you were never in. I missed that when reading it the first time. So forget those questions I just asked. Totally understood on how insane and appalling this info about the cult is to you. No worries, Susan, and glad you’re here 🙂
I had a fair amount of auditing and never experienced any kind of “hypnotism”, so wonder what you’re talking about? (I studied and practiced hypnotism in my late teens, so I do know a bit about it.)
To, sort of, answer Sue’s last question. Leah told Stephen Colbert that when you reach the more confidential levels of Scientology, you are told that God is a lie and does not exist. I wonder if other high-ranking former Scientologists, like Mike Rinder, were told the same thing?
Through OT VII, I never saw/heard “God” mentioned.
Absolutely LOVE the kitty in picture
So if God is a lie and does not exist and Jesus is considered by the cult to have been a false prophet…..what/who do they pray to? I’ve heard people on the show say things like “I prayed it would end” or “I prayed he wouldn’t find out”. Were they just using the word “pray” in place of “hope” or do they actually pray and if so, to whom or what?
According to the IRS, a church “must have regular religious services”, and “must have ordained ministers selected after completing prescribed courses of study” (among other requirements). How does Scientology profess to do this to the satisfaction of the IRS if they have no deity?
“The fact that ANY adult falls for the Scientology crap is beyond my comprehension.”
One of the reasons is that Scientology is using hypnotic techniques.
For example the dissemination drill is using “the confusion technique”.
Repeating three times a command is hypnotic (“the hypnotic triple”).
Auditing sessions are inducing transference, etc.
Then the belief is deeply implanted in the mind, that Scientology is THE solution.
Scientologists are hypnotized and can rationalize and accept every absurd or destructive item.
Hubbard was a master at hypnotism and used every technique to control others.
In his novel “Battlefield Earth”, he even explains how the Psychlos eventually controlled the galaxy, by hypnotizing the rulers. That was his way of thinking, he could not resist introducing it in his novels, in “Mission Earth” too.
I don’t know if the A&E series talked about hypnotism in Scientology, but there is enough matter for an episode about it.
Perhaps they have touched on it, but I don’t recall hearing them do it. Hypnosis would certainly explain a LOT. Thank you.
I never experienced any hypnotism nor hypnotic commands while I was in and have never understood this claim.
Powerful words Sue. But I feel are you a touch uniformed or have certain ignorances upon what reasons a person get involved in Scientology. There is much information on this site and on Tony Ortega’s, especially by Chris Shelton explaining the phenomenon of why people get involved in the cult (or any cults for that matter) in the first place. A little time spent researching, if you can be bothered, on this will explain a lot to you and just maybe a worthwhile thing to know for future reference, especially being a mom. Cults are a fact of life and are becoming more and more sophisticated in their recruitment strategies, especially online.
Believe me, I very much admire your family comes first sentiments. I’m extremely angry at what the cult of Scientology does to families, but initially in my time it didn’t seem real they would do such a thing, but now I am a victim of it. Sad, so very sad! But one thing I will say is that a Scientologist in the same room as me feels very uncomfortable very quickly. It is something quite hard to mentally accept when you see someone believe something so intently but they can’t see the betrayal they are neck deep in at the same time. It’s very frustrating to do something about it. It’s a lot easier to talk sense to a drunk than to a Scientologist or anyone caught up in the trance like state cults instil in people.
Once upon a time (it all seems like a surreal dream now) I witnessed citizens literally spitting and shouting all types of obscenities at the returning troops who served in Vietnam. People do and say the darnedest things when angry at something or have their own sensitivities threatened. Doesn’t make them bad people, after a time they regret what they did once the truth is realised. But yes, Scientology is a cult and a bad one.
I am uniformed and ignorant. I am a relative newcomer to all of this. Of course, I have heard of Scientology for decades. My home town actually had a Scientology center down the street from my house for years (I don’t believe it’s there any longer). It was housed in a gorgeous historic house in the main historic district. But I have never known a Scientologist (that I’m aware of) and I’ve certainly never had a face to face discussion with one. Thank you for pointing me in a direction that will allow me to research it more. I appreciate it.
You know, it’s weird, but the best way the find out about Scientology is to avoid talking to a Scientologist. Chris Shelton has done many videos. He is sincere and I’m sure if you scan through them you find one that will stand out for you, start there. In amongst his videos, don’t recall which one, but he discusses the cult like behaviour of Scientology and has a good chat with a Mormon. It’s quite revealing. Be objective about it all is all I can suggest.
The one positive thing to come out of Scientology is the education about cults and the greed and or insanity that drives them. They all have common traits, one way or another.
Yawn, Susan has never been audited. She has no reality on it. Why go back and forth about it?
Its like trying to describe football to someone who has either never played the game and/or knows nothing of the rules or what its goals and purposes are.
I use football as an example because for years I thought it a kind of dumb, senseless, violent sport beloved by men and tolerated by women because we loved them, and it was just something you had to put up with.
A game would start and I’d immediately cringe because here is some poor man trying to run somewhere holding a football who I knew most of the time had no chance to do whatever he was trying to do because in the next blink he’d be trapped under a pile of huge men piled on top of him., probably with some kind of injury, if in fact he was even alive at all…a brutal, primitive game – painful..that’s what football was to me. I preferred tennis.
But then I started dating this man a year ago and he of course is totally into football and in the beginning I just sighed and thought to myself, “Ok, you can do this”, you know, but, long story short, this time for some reason I decided to bite the bullet, bought a book (Football For Dummies, and btw it ISN’T for dummies, or else I might just have to come UP to being a dummy because my head was swimming after a few pages of this book) and asked him to explain the game to me, SLOWLY AND PATIENTLY which he was not only happy but thrilled to do… Long story short, I now understand the game much better, and I like it. I actually LIKE football! This is a miracle, kind of.
So, I’m not equating auditing with the game of football or trying to get Susan audited or trying to make her approve of auditing – nothing like that. I’m just saying that auditing is experiential and football are experiential, that’s all.
Aqua, that will always be a challenge to anyone who wishes to know what Scientology is, even if only to avoid such cults or attack the human abuses created out of them. I think you are jumping the gun here. I always suggest Chris Shelton for this particular aspect of getting some sort of answer across to people who’ve never experienced what they are asking to be explained to them. I give people credit for being intelligent enough to wade though some stuff all on their own. If they can’t what harm can come of it? They’ll have a opinion no matter what I or you suggest. They are not posting/commenting here for a ‘weather report’. For far too long Scientology has hidden behind that kind of a smoke screen.
Your use of examples is both fascinating and whacky at the same time. Where do you get the idea I’m trying to get Susan audited? I’m referring to the cult like characteristics of Scientology and of other cults, not of Scientology auditing procedures to get a reality in that sense. You confuse me with your all or nothing approach. Scientology specialises in pushing the hell out of the HELP button (most) people naturally have.
You don’t have to be a soldier to be appreciatively repulsed by such battle scenes as the beach landing in Saving Private Ryan or the first enemy contact of Hacksaw Ridge. The speed and horror of battle speaks for itself with your own imagination, or at least I hope it does, but it is that fast! You don’t have to have experienced auditing to gain a better understanding or a more accurate concept why someone gets involved in Scientology, even Chris explains why on that too. A lot of people such as Mike and Leah etc have gone out of their way to tackle this very aspect of the subject. The A&E format approach is by far the best imo. It will always be challenging, but let’s not shy away from it by being overly concerned with the “gradient” or conversely an SRA approach.
The mere fact Susan has asked such questions and presented her scenario of her life to this blog is enough to elicit a response from me. I’m sure she doesn’t want to be spoon fed or handled too gently. I have not been rude to her, I have just given my honest response and a suggested route by people far more capable than I to explain Scientology for the curious or concerned citizens.
Yawn, I never said you were rude to her. There’s nothing you’ve written above with which I disagree. From your response I believe you’ve missed the point I was trying to make or perhaps I didn’t communicate it well. No worries.
Yawn, Bravo! for your comments re the returning Vietnamese vets. I felt embarrassed and shamed by those years…and those actions.
Yeah, I hear you Peter. My sister’s boyfriend at the time took it really, really badly. He honestly thought he served his duty as his country demanded. And if that wasn’t horrific enough for him to be in that war, but to be vilified for it at home… WTF!
He died in a car accident not long after. I’ve always suspected it wasn’t so much of an accident.
My understanding Mike is that Russell Miller relied most heavily on the research of Jon Atack and whose book, A Piece of Blue Sky, went all the way to the Supreme Court and whose facts stood up to all efforts by Scientology to block it. I know it is end of season but I believe you have missed out by not featuring Jon on your show.
Loved last night’s show. My biggest concern however is this. Since you and Leah are producing evidence that is clearly taking apart Hubbard and Scientology piece by piece and proving each lie. Aren’t you a bit worried about your safety???? I mean you are threatening the very lucrative cash flow of a clearly unhinged psychopath? I am genuinely concerned, and actually have been from the very beginning, for your safety!!!!
Once again, Mike, your critique hit it out of the park.
Where’s Newcomer? Newcomer, please write another note to dave and tell him to keep up the good work on his hate website. He’s convincing everyone that he is great and the church is saving mankind.
Mary K, 9I wanted to tell you I don’t think your son was convincing in what he said on the COS video. He himself didn’t seem convinced.
Thank you for your contributions to this blog, Aftermath and this movement. You’re eloquent and amazing!
Thank you, Gravitysucks. A few people have said that to me.
Excellent take down of their ridiculous smear sites, Mike.
“That really says it all: the big bully with all the legal attack dogs money can buy does nothing but create webpages calling Tony (and everyone else) names.” “You want to sling the mud but pretend your hands aren’t dirty from digging in pigshit?” Great logic and writing, Mike.
I often wonder how much money it took for Rathbun to forget about all of the harassment and grief David Miscavige bestowed upon him.
Money actually talks with Rathbun. And I believe money was his motivation.
It’s about the only concept that would penetrate a 2″ thick forehead I suppose. Money is not always the best cure all but it would sure explain his 180 degree ‘about turn’ nuttiness. Maybe he had ECT or something… In the world of Marty there are no straight lines.
Every line is crooked with Marty. He’s crooked. I wonder how much the dwarf paid him.
Gee I hope proof of that surfaces. Maybe it’s blackmail, but whatever the reason insanity has show to have many faces.
Love this line about them criticizing you for selling cars (which I have done too and my father before me) “It’s better than defrauding people out of their money for promises that are never fulfilled and destroying families. At least people get an actual CAR for their money.”
And i hear Mike saying..CAH
Great piece,Mike! I am especially glad to see comments about all the BS about Tony and all that backpage crap! I hope everyone sees it.
Keep up the good work!
Ditto on that. I knew all the nonsense about Tony was pure B.S. (how could it not be, considering the source), but didn’t know the details. Thanks, Mike.
Hubbard has been proven a fraud and no one in scientology wants to accept that. This is a PTL that should have been taken down long ago.
PTL Praise the lord? Doesn’t fit. How about POS?
POS? Piss On Squirrels?
Piece of shit or yah, what you said 🙂
Now that’s some funny shit! Well done, Cece!
Gee whiz! If the squirrels of the world ever realised what Scientology really thinks of them and the slanderous reputation they have bestowed upon them, acorns would rain down upon Scientologists in great numbers.
Nuts for nuts. If Miscavige only had some balls.
Yeah, he put them away. This is why he’s only surrounded by cult members.
I wonder if he was any good at marbles as a kid?
He was never the same once he’d lost them.
He’d steal the marbles. All the marbles.
Hello Mike.
I ALWAYS look forward to your posts, and today was no exception. I must thank you for your explanation of the Backpage thing. A while back I dared myself to look at Marty’s blog. I do not know what is happening with him. Speculation about the state of his mental health is counterproductive.
Anyway, I looked at it one day and I have never been back since. He called Tony ‘Backpage’ and there was some implication about nasty sexual stuff. Oh, I know this was all garbage – I DO NOT TRUST A WORD HE SAYS. But I truly had no idea what he meant. I ‘walked’ away and I never bothered to look it up. I am glad I get it now.
Thank you
Well written summary that is much needed. Harvey Weinstein and John Travolta in “Pulp Fiction” is news to me.
What is really sad about Scientology is that they look like fools by following Hubbard’s policy to the letter. The contradiction is that Miscavige selects which policies to follow. He lost a great opportunity by trashing Hubbard’s Occult Bulletin declaring himself as the one in the role of Lucifer. That was his last chance to salvage Scientology
At the end of your episode on 11/14/17 a prognostication of his legacy was made. Yes he did build a religion based on deceit and he will become know for that.
HOWEVER… he may become known infamously as the one that unwittingly undermined all religions and brought world peace by convincing others that violence wasn’t the answer.
All religions were written by men and require blind faith. And all have failed to stand up to the scientific facts. Instead doctrine is changed to support undeniable facts but the religion proceeds unabated. The point is the inevitable implosion of Scientology may (hopefully will) disrupt all prior religions. At that point I think we mine a few hundred thousand years of peace.
Oh fuck me! I’m sorry, this post is going to be full of expletives after watching tonight’s Aftermath on the kids Ranches .. it was hard to get through & I forced myself to watch to the end. As a survivor of a ‘robust’ childhood in the 70s & 80s with an alcoholic father, as an adult with additional inherited PTSD due to government policies that saw my grandfather taken from his unmarried mother & raised in state ‘care’ in country Victoria in the 1900s (refelecting my mothers own horrific childhood), this episode about Tara & Nathan’s experiences in scientology ‘handling’ triggered the shit out of me! I was getting angrier & angrier, sadder & sadder, for the shit things forced upon not only these kids (& the fucked over kids that still live within these beautiful, compassionate, sensitive adults), but of the others who we haven’t heard from. Their parents weren’t, aren’t worthy of the love Tara & Nathan did, may still feel for them. It’s hard to explain the dark place hearing these stories tonight has taken me .. I really feel so much distress for what happened to these kids at these ‘ranch schools’. I can’t believe the authority figures there took seriously the KRs done by kids about other kids – if there was ever a time where a process could be corrupted through malicious & vexatious accusations, its that, with children being arseholes because they can! But that’s only one tiny piece of the whole shit-box! SMFH! I was already concerned about how kids were educated in scion after reading some examples of the Smith kids produced a couple of years ago .. OMG! .. which was pretty far out (& that’s being generous)! At least their parents are super-rich so they can afford to be dolts (who believe they’re geniuses rotfl bwahahaha!!!), but there must be 1000s of kids educated in scientology that would struggle to cope with academic expectations outside the confines of the organisation. Thankfully, though under-nourished & forced to do hard labour, the imagination & determination of these 2 survivours Nathan & Tara, was left untarnished & they’ve been able to flourish out in the ‘real’ world .. but it makes me feel sorry for the intergenerational kids still stuck in there today.
This season of Aftermath has been such a step up from the 1st, & this episode has really hit a nerve with me & made me angry! This fkn cult is so gutless & denies EVERYTHING, and everyone running & defending it are pathetic losers. I’m glad they’re getting a fresh whack every week & I hope & pray that Aftermath continues for more seasons to come to keep up the pressure on them .. karma is sweet like that. Mike & Leah are the best TV team, complementing each other perfectly. They provide just the right amount of outrage & informative commentary to act as the reaction of both hosts & viewer .. because that’s exactly how I’m reacting while watching it unfold on the screen. As a never-in this episode touched me in a way that felt personal, even though I’ve never experienced anything similar, so I want to say THANK YOU, thank you, thank you for such a fantastic, serious, investigative program!! These bastards shouldnt be allowed to get away with what they do .. so thanks for exposing it .. more! ?
All ex-scientology memebers should be able to bring a class act against this cult as most of us know it is not a religion. Members in this cult abuse the people and children that are working so hard to provide David Miscaviage the luxury life that he is leading. He reminds me of Hitler. All the leaders at the top including Miscaviage should be arrested and this cult really needs to be investigated by the FBI.
Agree this would be great
Such enlightenment about this aweful “religion, cult, money sucking family breaking ,rapists “) organization. I cry at every episode. Keep going. This needs to be outed now.!!!!
Great, fascinating essay, Mike!
Dave,
Bring back the small band of bitter bitches who specialize in spousal musical chairs at Int.
Rational, free thinking people DO NOT believe anything the COS puts out. Thank you for continuing to fight the battle Mike Rinder. I am blown away that Marty is back in?? WTH??
WTF? Money, baby! Green backs! That was a fast turn around!
I love it when you talk like that!
So do I!
hello. Long time reader, 2nd time poster
here is a link to an e-book of bare faced messiah!
http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/bfm/bfm01.htm#8
great episode btw
Actually Russell Miller’s book next to Janis Gillham Grady’s book on Mr. Hubbard was the best novel I ever read on the man I served once for 25 years of my life.
And the cult never sued. Why? Because Russell Miller crossed all his Ts and dotted all his Is. His book was air tight. It’s one of THE best books on the cult.
I’m so thankful that Aftermath finally showcased L. Ron Hubbard.
I was thinking about all that grotesque bullshit in the lobbies of scientology buildings around the world, placards, and kiosks, posters and propaganda, all fawning over the intrepid hero LRH.
Wouldn’t it be great to see this episode of Aftermath blaring out from across the street, or maybe from a speaker billboard, or whatever, to “enturbulate” the glassy-eyed scientologists milling about these shrines to evil. Those poor saps NEED to learn the truth about their founder, for their own good.
An excellent episode and a fitting end to Season 2. Miller’s book was a revelation when I first read it 20 years ago and Hana, well, she’s not only one smart, brave human being, but she’s pure elegance as well.
Scientology is a CULT disguising as a Religion.
Disgraceful
GOD BLESS the MEN and WOMEN who have the STRENGHT and COURAGE to leave. WELCOME to the REAL WORLD WHERE LOVE CONQUERS HATE.
?????????????????
Hi Kate,
I left. Thanks for the acknowledgement. Unfortunately, many of us are still ‘resonating’ the Scientology paradigm. It’s an extremely difficult thing to shake after truly believing your personal efforts can help clear the planet. You’re right, Strength and Courage are required to leave, and I’ll never go back. Not even if I come back in another lifetime.
The sad thing is most of the average people in the Church are good people, but working for a bad cause. They’re the ones who need the blessing. I have Hope for them, especially the children and those who were brought into it without a choice.
Mike, thank you for the work you and Leah do on this show. Hopefully, your hard work will make someone think twice before joining Scientology and allow it ruin their lives, family, finances etc. It would probably be so much easier for both of you to just quietly go on with your lives out from under Scientology’s radar. Instead, you choose to stand up against all the horrible things this so-called “church” perpetuates on its members at your own expense with the “church” attacks against you both. To go against Scientology takes courage, character, and selflessness that so many people don’t have within them but both of you have in abundance. The people that you and Leah meet with on the show reflect the strength of the human spirit to share their stories as a cautionary tale of what happens to its members. The dedication you and Leah have to speak out about all the injustices heaped on former members and the destruction of the family unit, marriages, damage to children, etc is overwhelming. I hope you continue your fight in outing the “church’s” deceptive practices and prevail. My eyes have been truly opened to just how damaging this church is and bless you for taking on this fight.
Every episode leaves me baffled that this has been and still going on in this country. With all the info these days everywhere, people still hold to the lies as truth. This man was evil! No respectable profession has had anything positive to say about him. He hates Psychologist because he knew they understood he was crazy as a loon and needed drug or shock therapy! He carefully created a system to make people robots to serve him ,while hiding behind words that are used together to cause curiosity so that people felt important in what they was doing, In his books he talks in circles making no sense, but still using words or phrases that excites a curious mind. He had one goal and that was to take over the world with money come power, brainwashing people to serve him and his ignorant ideas, while separating them from family members which made the person weaker and easier to control and all while making everyone believe they are saving the planet! How in the world is this place still functioning? Well see evil loses in the end, and we are going on what almost 50+ years of this nonsense, so people are starting to come out of the wood work at alarming rates, so that now something has to be done!
Hi Tammy:
I agree with you entirely about why L. Ron Hubbard hated psychiatry. When he tried to present his ideas (Dianetics) to the psychiatric community, I’m pretty sure they laughed them off as utter drivel. He’s undoubtedly been extremely resentful of the mental health profession for that reason. From what I understand, he asked for psychiatric help while he was in the military (screwing up) and never received that help. I truly believe that his problem with psychiatry is an extreme case of sour grapes, which has, in several horrific cases, resulted in tragedy. Not to mention the many scientologists who have had to deal with mental and emotional problems basically by themselves – the result being so much unnecessary suffering.
And, yes, I also believe that L. Ron Hubbard was certifiable himself.
To clarify: Hubbard’s asking for psychiatric help was a “shore story.” He was trying to get his veteran’s disability pension increased, so he manufactured a sob story about how “disabled” he was. By the way, he never stopped collecting his monthly disability check (courtesy of you, the tax payer) – even though at the time of death he was worth 450 million dollars. Greedy to his dying breath.
Masterful deconstruction once again, Mr. Rinder.
I would love to hear more about how Hana is helping people get out. She seems like the sweetest lady and so kind hearted. I think she would be such a comfort to someone just getting out.
It is all in my book which should be out next year. Jerry, my husband, and I put the slander and abuse aside and treated Scientologists with the respect and dignity and warmth they all deserve as human beings. By meeting them on that platform we were able to get to where we could talk turkey. That part was simple. What made it difficult was the continual surveillance, threats, and abuse from RTC and OSA that included busting into homes to break up our meetings with families. I’m deeply thankful for the hundreds of families we were able to help reunite in the past thirty years around the world who now have their minds and lives back, and that many have stayed in touch all these years to share their squealing grandchildren with us …
?❤️
Thank Goodness for you !! have had painful family loss close to 40 years due to this cult wish could receive some help from you ??? Please Anyway possible ???
Hana, do you think Quentin’s death contributed to Nibs’ decision to leave Scientology? Thank you!
Thank you for everything you do and have done.
Breaking through the foundation of complete and utter certainty in Hubbard is so important to waking people up and for subsequent healing and recovery, and hearing from those who actually worked with him is powerful.
The church story I’ve been fed is that all these documents in the books and in the files across the world are lies and planted by the SPs, and that the real documents are the ones the church puts out. Indoctrinated on a diet of conspiracy theories, testimony from people like you who were THERE is powerful and I believe could help break through the implanted mind set.
It’s helping ME. Even though I know and feel that it’s all been a pack of lies and mind control, I still have the scientology lines drilled in at a bedrock level. Your voice and truth help to counterbalance decades of indoctrination.
I will read your book.
Can’t wait to read your book, Hana! Thanks so much to you and Jerry for all that you’ve done to help reunite families and support those who’ve escaped from the cult’s evil clutches to return to the real world and to lead normal, fulfilling lives, far from the epi-center of evil which is $cn.
Hana, I look forward to reading your book. You and Russell Miller both did a fantastic job on last night’s show. Thank you for being willing to speak out knowing full well it made you a target for the church. We are all very grateful for that.
Thanks for being you, Hana.
Awwww thank you Hana. I’m happy to hear you have a book coming out. 🙂
When & what’s the title?
Can’t wait to buy and read your book, Hana!
Hana, we love you dearly and give you our fully support for what you have been doing to help others. Despite the mistreatment you have received from OSA, you have always taken the high road and held your head high with dignity. I’m proud to be your friend as was my mother before me.
?
” I’m proud to be your friend as was my mother before me.”
DITTO!
Hana – you are a kind and lovely lady. My friends who watch the show last night loved you. You came across very credible and real.
Thank you for speaking out.
You have done so much to help others – THANK YOU.
I watched tonights show with great interest, and to my mind it was the most powerful one of both series to date, as it examined the life and lies of LRH. The clips of ‘Nibs’ testifying and being interviewed were the most powerful of all. As Leah said, LRH lied about everything from the beginning which means that Scientology itself is built on lies. How anyone who watched this show can any longer be in doubt about the scam of Scientology defies logic. A question did occur to me though…………..has anyone heard or received any further communication from LRH since he discarded his body to continue his work unencumbered? Or is DM keeping that info for future rallies? Oh wait, Mike you did say that OT’s are given a 21 year ‘break’ after they leave this mortal coil, but as you also stated LRH is 11 years overdue for his return………so just wondering why no one, especially those at the higher OT levels questions his non-appearance.
I saw him on 42nd and Broadway auditioning for a rerun of Cats. I didn’t want to tell anyone until now.
You found my cat? Bless you, Moxie.
He looked kinda mangy.
He drinks gin…
Must be one drunk cat. Mine died from ODing on Cal-Mag.
The cat at our house is addicted to Catnip. Caught her making cookies with it the other day, greedy little feline wouldn’t share.
🙂
Their statement on Russell Miller: “Once again, Remini must go back three decades to enlist a source.”
Source? That’s an interesting choice of words. LRH is considered “Source” in Scientology, and he’s been dead for over 3 decades. As Mike already pretty much said, Scientology will always have to “go back three decades [and even longer than that] to enlist a ‘source’.”
Wow, that one just might be the most epic foot-bullet I’ve ever seen from this group, and that’s saying something. I’m amazed how, just when I think they couldn’t possibly get any dumber, they totally prove me wrong…
Hubbard was Satanic. I saw your most recent episode where it was mentioned that he was into the occult. I had also recently seen an episode of Ghost Adventures where they were talking about the history of an old house and it so happened that L. Ron Hubbard had been one of the owners. He had apparently performed many Satanic rituals there. It’s just all so evil. I pray for you and Leah and the work you do!
OMG – thank you so much for tonight’s episode! It was epic!
Although I had heard squirrelly rumors about Scientology I didn’t realize how dangerous it was until I read the TIME article that came out in 1991. I was living in the Bay Area (the FL one) and it inspired me to shortly thereafter get Russell Miller’s book. Lots of good things published since then, but really, Miller is pretty comprehensive when it comes to piecing together the true story behind the scam.
I have yet to read anything as well-documented, researched and vetted about LRH as Bare-Faced Messiah. And even if you never read another thing about CoS, it is the complete expose, imo. It gives great insight into the twisted mind of LRH and his motives for creating the organization he did (almost all of which are inspired by his own self-aggrandizing ego and insatiable desire to be important and in control). Miller is a quintessential journalist and it reads like a spy thriller. I am so grateful we got to hear his interview – I’ve been dying to see him talk about his work for decades!
(These articles aside, I would not have been a good candidate for CoS at any rate. I already had problems with organized religion that started from Day One, regardless of founding dogma and have been fighting against their abuses. And the first time I ever heard LRH’s voice I had a visceral negative reaction. He sounded like a greasy pervert to me. It went right down my spine like a supernatural chill. Even if I had been attracted enough to what he wrote to have been drawn in to learning more, I would have run for the hills the minute I saw a video of him talking. He scared the shit outta me from the jump. It’s very hard for me to watch those clips on your show – I feel physically ill. Even more so, now that I know all the harm he and his protégé have done to others.)
And Hana of course – what an incredible and dear soul to work so hard to help undo the damage this venal organization and its policies has done. Not only from its sociopathic founder but from his Mini-Me, the Dauphin Dave, who basically took a great scam to the next level.
Every time CoS comes out with hate propaganda against people who have left or people who dare to speak their truth, it sounds more and more ridiculous and unhinged. You can tell it’s not a very large organization because it reacts small and personally – with the kind of wrath a Senatorial candidate accused of sexual abuse and pedophilia might reacts. It looks like what it also is – the abuse of power by a larger entity to punish a victim in order to escape responsibility for their bad acts. Real religions are professional (and large) enough to take the high road, to turn the other cheek. They do not need to sling mud like a bitter, cuckolded lover.
They could certainly take a page out of that book – “turn the other cheek”. What kind of person or outfit has a Fair Game policy? Cheap mobsters and paranoid crooks. And maybe psycho ex-girlfriends or petty serial killers. Seriously! Certainly not a bona-fide “religion”. If there is ANYTHING that makes CoS look more guilty, it’s how they will stoop to attack anyone and everyone who says a thing against them. (Shades again of corrupt Hollywood producers and authoritarian dictators). So far they may have harassed their way out of trouble by becoming a nuisance to the government, but that will not last. And LRH may have bragged about using religion as a way to make money, but if CoS is run more like a racketeering mob scam, the patina of “religion” will not last long – regardless of how many fake PR photos they shoot of their front organizations doing “good works”. It’s all starting to look like false advertising. Like fraud. Tick tock.
CoS is not the only quasi-religious organization to use a military structure. The Salvation Army, a Christian evangelical organization based on Reform Methodism modeled itself on a military hierarchy after it’s founder described it as “God’s Army” – and have used the same rank structure from generals to cadets. Perhaps LRH was inspired by that, his own familiarity with the US Navy (not to mention the fact it reinforced stories of his “heroism” during the war, and the fact that he really needed to set sail in international waters to avoid the many legal troubles he left in his wake in Europe. My own feeling is that he really got off on the heady feeling of being the “Captain” of his own little ship – the undisputed leader, because it seems like the whole experience calcified the idea that his words were the indisputable truth to any of his followers. Setting it up like that permanently for the Sea Org – its executive branch – was bound to eventually attract another megalomaniac like little Davey.
We are so proud of all of you for having the courage to stand up to this two-bit dictator and his band of brainwashed minions. It’s not easy – you have shown us how hard it can be. But we admire your bravery and your stamina. You are making a difference – all of you! And they are getting more desperate, it’s obvious by the tenor and hysteria of their attacks. You’re hitting a big nerve, and they can’t even fight back adequately with the circular logic of the founder. I think they also know their days of threat and intimidation are close to an end. They are one good court case away from everything ugly they do being exposed and part of the record. How can people so “clear” be so afraid of the light of truth?
The Russell book is awesome! http://www.xenu.net/archive/books/bfm/bfm19.htm
A Piece of Blue Sky by Jon Atack is also great! http://www.apologeticsindex.org/A%20Piece%20of%20Blue%20Sky.pdf
Wow!!! Tonight’s episode was amazing! I thought I knew quite a bit about LRH, but I was shocked to hear how very EVIL this guy turned out to be…. Not just Mental…Evil! I love this show so much. I wish someone could say how many Scientologist actually exist. Thanks to Leah and Mike for all they are revealing!
Scientology, your flatulent words are only exceeded by their lack of content.
???
As usual, Moxie, you’re right on the money. Well put, I might add.
Thanks Meryl.
I didn’t realize words could smell so bad.
Now you do. Please spare me the success story. ?
Ok. But, I can still elevate my hand! Now that’s Super!
VWD! Your win is duly noted. Be sure not to see the reg.
Just ordered Mr. Miller’s book. Looking forward to being angry about that charlatan.
Speaking of which, the wife and I had a discussion:
Who is worse, Hubbard for inventing the farce of a religion? Or Miscavige, for taking it to the Nth degree?
I think LRH because if it weren’t for the fact he gave it the status and teflon exemption of a religion, Miscavige would probably be behind bars. LRH is Dr. Frankenstein and DM is only his first little monster.
yes when saw Miscavige got as far away from him & scio as could. DM seems even more evil than LRH
LRH,:
Sure is good to be back! But, David, see here, Dave, I have to know…what the Sam Hill have you been DOING all these years? People coming up to me with the WILDEST stuff about you, man! Squirrelling my Tech, putting people in a Hole, drowning dogs, and so forth. Wild stuff! None of itst true, are they? Its all Fake News from the Chaos Merchant Media – right?
MISCAVIGE, (silent, averts eyes, hangs head)
LRH:
DAVID! ! ANSWER me! I NEED to know! You didn’t DO any of these things – right?
MISCAVIGE: (Exploding))
YOU CREATED ME, RON! NOW LET ME LIVE!
Miscavige’s violent tendencies would have landed him in jail a long time ago if he wasn’t coddled by his scientologist slaves who, for example, literally LIE for him on CNN with Anderson Cooper (so cringe-worthy and shameful to watch).
So I’d have to pin the WORST award on L. Ron Hubbard. He single-handedly hurt more of humanity and damaged more lives than Miscavige, and his organization protects a thug like Miscavige, among others. Just think of the victims left in Hubbard’s wake. His disgusting legacy is well documented and an embarrassment to any decent human being.
Miscavige because Mayo would have taken it way elsewhere.
Ditto SM
Let’s see if you smash the egg does the chicken ever exist? Chicken? Egg? They’re both their own brand of crazy but miscavige is the one I despise the most.
Very tough one to answer, but I’d say Hubbard. He started this hell on earth.
Ok, everyone, lets pursue this vein of reasoning.
Jesus Christ was the Founder of Christianity, right? .
So, does that make Jesus of Nazareth in Judea responsible for the Crusades and the Inquisition?
After all, if there had been no Christianity, there would not have been any Holy Wars nor would there have been any heretics to persecute and torture – correct?
Really, its all Jesus Christ’s fault for Founding Christianity in the first place!
Ok, now you can all pile on 🙂
That “vein of reasoning” conflates a millennium and a half of Christian church history, most of it at far remove from the short life of its founder, with the timeline of an organization in existence well less than a century, during more than half of which the founder was alive.
A more apt comparative example would be to ask how might we view Jesus’ responsibility, if the Crusades had been started during his lifetime, by Apostles or followers interpreting his teachings; and the Inquisition begun around the time of his death, by others at least nearly as close.
All true points, Peacemaker, in my opinion, as I’ve never been able to fathom what the Crusades or the Inquisition had to do with Jesus Christ or anything He ever said to do.
Yet, these enterprises WERE done in His name, and to further the growth and acceptance of Christianity, were they not?
Based on what He said in the New Testament, would you say that the Crusades and the Inquisition had, in actuality, ANY honest and viable connection to Jesus Crhist’s beliefs and/or methods of spreading “The Word of God”?
By slaughtering in cold blood those in foreign lands who were not Christian and believed differently?
By hunting down those in one’s own country and torturing them physically until they agree to believe what they’re supposed to believe, and if they don’t, burning them at the stake?
So very “Christian”…and I don’t recall ever having read anything in the New Testament from Jesus advocating either of these methods.
Yet, I’ll make this point again: ALL of these heinous acts were done in the NAME of Jesus Christ.
Seems to me what started out as a nice, helpful, loving, “love thy neighbor as thyself”, “you are your brother’s keeper”, etc. philosophy morphed (for a while) into a monstrously cruel and intolerant, “my way or the highway” religion, that WISELY, several hundred years ago began to reverse itself, and resemble once more the original philosophy, in its words and in its deeds. My opinion.
Exactly right, Peacemaker. . I addressed the “vein of reasoning” precisely as it was stated, with nothing added or subtracted, and you’re right, it is poor reasoning. You’re making my point, we agree.
I love you Aquamarine. Would never pile on you.
“… So, does that make Jesus of Nazareth in Judea responsible for the Crusades and the Inquisition?” … maybe a bit? Nah, you make a good point. A butterfly moved its wings, and a hurricane was the ramification 6 months later on the other side of the planet. Is the butterfly guilty? This is the argument.
However, Ole’ Yeller’ LRH himself has a lot of dirt (blood?) on his hands.
By the way, to change the subject, LRH kinda looks like Ole’ Yeller’.
The Donald kinda does too, doesn’t he?
Backatcha WAYC. Got it on everything including Ole Yeller. Pres is certainly close on the color wheel but in my area we refer to him now as Agent Orange. But don’ respond because we don’t want to go gratuitously off thread. 🙂
Jesus promoted “love thine enemy” and “turn the other cheek”. He didn’t promote Fair Game and encourage people to punish children as adults. He forgave sinners and did not let people punish them. He actually allegedly healed people (without bragging). He even forgave the people that nailed him up on a cross as well as his inner circle whose lack of bravery put him there (instead of letting his own wife sit in jail on his behalf after she was ordered to infiltrate and steal from the IRS.)
Other than a few minor differences in execution, I don’t see a great deal of difference in how LRH or DM treat people. They objectify them and use them for money. DM might appear to be more of a tyrant, but I think he and LRH show equally sociopathic behavior. LRH may have been a tad more glib and charismatic, but it doesn’t change how he dealt with everyone.
The Crusades and the Inquisition happened well over a millennia after the founder of the religion had died. Lots of time to distort the message by people with an agenda.
(In fact, if you study the early history of the church, you’ll see it ultimately became simply a vehicle to preserve the failing Roman Empire, both in structure as well as politically. Which is a big irony in and of itself, since it was the Romans who were responsible for the death of Christ, and pretty much stood for everything he despised about civilization.)
.
The Crusades and Inquisition were a perversion of the message of Jesus. I see DM’s actions as merely an awkwardly executed extension of LRH’s.
Excellent post.
Agreed on all you said, Cecybeans. Someone made a blanket statement to the effect that if there had been no Scientology in the first place there would have been no way for Miscavige to do what he did. There are actually quite a few references about help and the benefit to the helper of helping others in Scientology. LRH was a mixed bag. Others will say that his wanting to help references were all just to get money. I don’t believe that but I wouldn’t argue it with them. It makes more sense to me that LRH was conflicted and a mixed bag of good and evil, so to speak.
Actually, there is one statement you made with which I disagree. “The Crusades and the Inquisition were a perversion of the message of Jesus”.
Far, far more serious than a mere “perversion” of Christianity., Cecybeans. Try, “made up out of whole cloth” and then done in Jesus’s name and you’d be accurate .
Never, ever, did Jesus mention ANYTHING about force and violence as a method of spreading his philosophy.
Basically, he said to spread the word and that some would embrace it and for those who did not, the “handling” was to “shake the dust off your feet” and leave and go talk to someone else – gross paraphrasing but you get the concept.
Nothing, about the use or efficacy of physical force to instill belief. Not a whisper from Jesus about that.
ITA. The “perversion” I was speaking of was his message of forgiving one’s enemies and turning the other cheek. Persecuting the churches “enemies”, whether against Muslims in the Holy Land (who were also doing a big land grab themselves into Europe, let’s be real) or by torturing “heretics” like they did with both their own and Jews during the Inquisition/Counter Reformation were considered a “defense” of Christianity as an institution, as a whole, and not related to Jesus as an individual in any way. In fact, many sects specifically interpreted ‘spreading the Gospel” as any way, shape or form, and condoned physical violence using the excuse that the person’s mortal soul was in peril..
If you study the politics of both Europe and Asia from the fall of the Roman Empire through at least post Renaissance, you’ll find that in the entire area the church itself was one of the most political animals that existed, and since it was primarily staffed with nobility from the countries involved that is quite understandable. It operated both like its own political entity and in alliance and concert with other nations as a check or balance of power as well. There is really not much separation between it and any of the political events of the time.
The Christian church, early on, folded into its structure the Jewish Old Testament as well, where violence and holy wars were a matter of course. It didn’t take most leaders too long to say that state violence was sanctioned when using the Old Testament as a reference. When the Ten Commandments said “Thou shalt not kill”, everybody took it to pertain to the individual level, not to heads of state in wars. And while the Crusades are often isolated as purely “religious” wars, they were more often fought for a variety of political and economic reasons under the banner of Christianity.
But that’s where people always get into trouble – they conflate the personal message of the founder with protection of the religious institution that is formed afterward by others.
Jesus was most likely part of the Essenes, a radical communal sect of Jews. He wasn’t trying to start a religion necessarily, just spread a philosophy. From that standpoint, he and LRH are radically different. LRH, after whatever initial inspiration he had to both invent and amalgamate his particular world view, laid out a very specific set of steps and very specific policies and procedures to protect his new institution of the CoS.
Regardless of the history of the Christian church – all that stuff it did happened many many centuries even before the Enlightenment, where ostensibly the concept of Science finally had as much weight as religion, and man could cast aside the “superstition” used to justify such wars. .
And those tactics sure as hell haven’t been deemed to be civilized for at least that long. The types of things LRH espoused that could be helpful to human beings he did not invent but simply rearranged in a way that was clever. It was the institution and the processes he himself designed to deliver them – the toxicity of the policies and the perversion of using extortion with what others would consider the “sanctity” of private confession – that negated any good that might have been done and set the foundation for the destruction and abuse that followed. The potential for evil was pretty much baked into the cake, imo, with all the Cold War paranoia and spying and blackmailing he not only condoned but encouraged while he built his little authoritarian empire.
There just isn’t any rational comparison that holds up, imo.
SM, you’re going to love his book. Russell Miller pulls away all the curtains! I’ve read it twice. Let me know what you think of it.
I’ve never been in Scientology, never really considered it until I watched Season One. I’ve watched the dignity, sincerity, pain and humility of your guests and I’ve seen the responses from the Ch**ch of the Most Ethical.
Nothing from Scientology has even come close to convincing me that you or your guests are devious liars and bitter apostates. All the deviousness and bitterness is on the other side.
Thank you for a job very, very well done.
I definitely suggest reading Barefaced Messiah if you have any interest in either Scientology or charismatic authoritarian leadership in general. It’s good.
Either way, I was posting at the bunker a lot when the first part of the spat between Marty and Tony Ortega started and I didn’t get it then. It’s still a huge WTF to me. That they’re using that (and Marty) as the content of their newest smear campaign is wholly unsurprising but still pretty pathetic.
Don’t these people ever give up?
Marty is a dipstick!
That’s probably an insult to dipsticks everywhere…
Thank you to you, Leah and all involved for taking this on. My entire family is watching the show and we are telling others to tune in. Prayers for you all!
Melanie (3rd generation FL, Pinellas County)
Pinellas fl u guys own that coast. Just stay away from west palm beach and the east coast please?. Idk how u do it or how u could possibly get free from it… 3rd fkng gen?woa
Bc i just came into $ i have piece of mind 2 just “get up and leave” i could move back 2 tarpon springs or Tallahassee anywea i want…but b4 i got that windfall. I would never have had a way out. I was 2 broke to do anything let alone leave my whole life behind and start fresh..with wat money?how? Id b stuck forever. So how do u expect 2 leave? Or did u just ‘go quiet’ and keep ur family intact that way ? Or r u srill kinda drinkin the kool-aid??
It’s so weird to be on the other side of these attacks, remembering what it was like to be in Scientology watching blurbs in events about the attacks (I left before the internet was very big). Scientology presents these attacks as major blows to their enemies. They seem so effective and awesome when you’re at their events. But having gotten attacked myself, I found it to be totally underwhelming. I mean, come on Scientology get your act together. Your competence level is really low. You win these by defeating the ideas, not by trying desperately to find something to shame about. Hell, I could have told you that.
I love the cat photo. Why in the world would COS use that cute photo in their attack pieces against you. I have enjoyed the videos you did with Aaron Smith Levin and your own video with Tara. I am sad for you that you did not get to make things right with your Mom.
Nate ur crazy bro… keep kickn ass!
Dave to cramming via ethics.
Dave, don’t forget to bring your peach box. That podium is pretty high.
Nathan, it’s really interesting to hear you share your experience that the attacks did seem – or were convincingly presented as – effective when you were on the inside. That shows that as strange as they seem from the outside, they have much of the desired effect on their real intended audience, which is why Scientology continues them.
Thank you for exposing the farse that Hubbard is. Love what Leah and you are doing.