Mike Rinder's Blog

Something Can Be Done About It

The Hole: A List of Prisoners

By 101 Comments

There has been plenty of commentary about “The Hole” since it was first disclosed by Joe Childs and Tom Tobin in the St Petersburg Times in 2009, and again famously featured in Lawrence Wright’s Going Clear book and Alex Gibney’s HBO film based on the book.

Scientology has asserted the Hole “does not exist and never has.” But the numerous people who have witnessed it first hand and spoken about it have, to any objective observer, put scientology’s denials to the sword. Miscavige even had a sign made and hung on the outside of the building to identify it clearly as “The Hole.” (Where he got the name from, I don’t know, perhaps a reference to the Black Hole of Calcutta?)

The Hole has its very own Wikipedia page.

Many of the top executives of scientology were incarcerated in The Hole at one time or another. There may have been more after I left in 2007.

Soon after I departed, I compiled a list of names of those who had been in The Hole. It totals 140 people. There may be some I forgot. As far as I know there has never been a definitive list made public. (Tony Ortega just reminded me that he had published this list at the Village Voice back in 2012 and I helped him compile it! That’s old age for you. Here is his piece, which contains a lot more detail about a lot of these people. My apologies for the inaccurate statement… But nevertheless I think this list is new to a lot of people).

Those in boldface have subsequently left and spoken out about their experience. Those in red have left the Sea Org and remain silent (there may be other escapees, these are the ones I know have left).

 

Lisa Allen (Schroer) CO Gold

Tanya Alexander R Comps Sec

Jennifer Alpers CO CMO Ship/ CMO Int

Mary Arbuckle R Comps Sec

Gail Armstrong PR Aide OSA Int/Int Mgmt PR

Cheryl Azevedo WDC

Allen Baumgarten Int Finance Off

Russ Bellin CO CST

Alison Biggs CMO Gold

Angie Blankenship COB Pjt Ops RTC/CMO Int/WDC

Dave Bloomberg Exec Strata

Pam Bolstad/Gumm CST

Veronique Bromberg CO OSA Int

Pat Buglewicz Incomm

Marcia Callahan RTC/R Comps

Aleah Chisholm Qual GOld

Amy Clifford Exec Strata/Gold Mfg

Lise Cohee  Legal Off IAS

Amy Conley CMO Int/R Comps

Gary Conley Gold

Debbie Cook  Capt FSO

Astra Croft Fear D/CO CMO Int

Geray Cruzen Int Landlord Off

Rick Cruzen Gold Musician

Tony DeCrecenzo  CMO Int Ext Comm

Julia Delderfield CMO Gold

Tom DeVocht CMO CW/CO CMO Int

Blandine DeVries R Comps Sec

Liz Engen RTC/R Comps

Ryan Fear CMO Int

Sarah Fear Exec Strata

Frank Fehn Gold Cameraman

Pauline Flood R Comps Sec

Tom Ford R Comps

Monica Grannis Exec Strata/Int Mgt PR Off

Russ Grielich Gold Audio Production Sec

Laurence Guenot (Stumbke) (Barram) Int Landlord Off

Bettina Henderson Exec Strata/Gold

Dave Henderson Exec Strata/Gold

Steve Hodkin Int Landlord Off

Karen Hollander Int Mgmnt PR

Jon Horwich R Comps

Stephanie Horwich Qual Gold

Becky Hughes (Oaks) Gold

Debbie Hughes Exec Strata/WDC

Greg Hughes Exec Strata/WDC

Marta Idda – Data Dir CMOI

Liz Ingber – CMO Int/R Comps

Mark Ingber  – CO CMO Int/WDC Reserves

Michelle Jaramillo – R Comps Sec

Mette Jensen – AVC RTC

Heber Jentzsch – President CSI

Pall Johansson – Int Landlord Off

Kristina Jensen – HCO Chf CMOI

Charles Johnson – RTC Cramming Off

Sharon Johnston – D/CO CMO Int

Jacqueline Kevenaar – CMO Int/WDC

Coby Knight – Int Finance

Sue Koon – RTRC

Theresa Laner – LRH PPRO Office

Susie LaPlaine – Exec Strata

Tim Larson – RTC AVC/Gold

Tanja Lefevre – RTC AVC

Kathy Lemmer – Exec Strata/Gold

Angie LeMoine (Trent) – RTC/Gold

Robert Lemoine — Incomm

Andy Lenarcic  — LRH PPRO Bio

Guilliame Lesevre – ED Int

Gary Lew – LRH Audio Visual

Mariette Lindstein – RTC/Gold

Jenny Linson  — CO CMO Int/WDC

Tammy Lundeen – D/CO CMO Int/WDC

Aron Mason – OSA Int PR/Int Mgt PR

Barbara McHenry – CMO Int/WDC/Gold

Janet McLaughlin (Light) – President IASA

Carly McShane – CMO Gold

Marcy McShane – LRH PPRO

Abigail Miller – CMO Int/WDC

Jason Miller — CMO Int

Ray Mithoff – RTC/Snr CS Int

Bruno Moresi — CST

Julie Moresi — CST

Jan Mortensen – CMO Int/WDC/Gold

Clark Morton – CO CMO Gold/Cine Sec Gold

Barbara Newton – CMO Int/CMO Gold

Marie-Noel Pietch – Data CMOI

Cory Norton – R Comps

Anna Maria Ogeltree – LRH PPRO

Jan Olsen – LRH PPRO

Lucky Porter (Story) – D/CO CMO Int

Marion Pouw – RTC/ CMO Int

Claudia Olander – CMO Int/ Gold

John Oldfield  — CMO Int

Cathy Ondreicka – Exec Strata/Gold

James Perry — Incomm

Urd Priester — RTC

Marty Rathbun  — RTC

Wendell Reynolds – Int Finance Director

Ellen Reynolds – Int Finance Off

Cathy Rinder  — CMO Int/R Comps

Mike Rinder – CO CMO Int/ CO OSA Int/WDC

Linda Rodin – R Comps

Steve Rule – Exec Strata/Int Landlord

Faith Shermerhorn – Exec Strata

Peter Schless – Gold Musician

Rita Schwartzgruber – CO FCB

Deborah Siegal – Int Landlord Off

Ingrid Sjogren – Int Landlord Off

Josie Spittell – CMO Int

Denise Sommerville – Audio Prod Sec Gold

Lyman Spurlock  — ASI/RTC/Int Finance (RIP)

Daniella Starkey – D/CO CMO Int

Norman Starkey – ASI/RTC

Jon Stumbke — Gold

Anke Sutter – RTC AVC Cram Off

Fred Swartz – Exec Strata

Michelle Tampion – HCO Chf CMO Int

Melita Tampion – LRH PPRO Off

Fleur Thomas – RTC AVC Eval Auth

Katie Tisi (Feshbach) – Qual Sec Gold

Bert Trussell — CST

Jens Urskov – Exec Strata/Gold

Tom Vorm — CST

Bruce Wagoner – Port Captain Gold

Karen Wagoner (KK) – CMO Int/Gold Mfg Div

Cebron Walker – CMO Int/Marketing

Danielle Walker Bailey – D/CO CMO Int

Richard Welch – Int Finance

Kirsti Wilhere – CO FCB

Michelle Wheelis — CST

Rena Weinberg – ED ABLE Int

Jessica Wieneke (Gilchrist) – Qual Gold

Kurt Wieland – CO OSA Int/WDC OSA

Gary Wiese – Chf Editor Gold

Greg Wilhere — RTC

Sue Wilhere — RTC

Diane Williams – RTC AVC

Tom Willis — CST

Marc Yager – CO CMO Int

Laurie Zurn – D/ED ABLE Int

 

Comments

  1. It amazes me that there are so many of the same last names on the list. Spouses, family, what have you.

    Would spouses or family members be inclined to cooperate with each other? Would they worry about getting a KR written, and ending up debased further? I’ve read so much about husbands and wives and so-called best friends writing up a KR which caused no end of trouble for the person it was written about.

    Brainwashing is a term with some baggage behind it. I sometimes prefer Indoctrination, which produces an Indoctrinaire. Either way, they become ronbots.

    Recent messages about neuroplasticity show that the brain has no innate good or evil – it just experiences, records and adjusts. Experiences can indoctrinate, or free from indoctrination. The mind can be improved, freed, enlightened, or enslaved, degraded, and debased, all depending on outside inputs. That is why it is so important to reduce Scientology to a no-thing, to prevent damaging brainwashing of those who are simply seeking self-improvement.

    p.s. I wonder how many people in the Hole are familiars of Fool Proof, and if he has anything to say about what leads them to put up with such incarceration. Could it be they firmly believe in their Source Hubbard? I think one debased ever-innie was quoted as saying he was awaiting Hubbard’s return.

    Reply

    • Not to be an apologist but these are all sea org people. They were probably pretty well indoctrinated and had lofty goals before they signed up. Many of them might be born ins and signed up as soon as they were allowed to do so. Military life was not for me so I was never a candidate for the sea org.

      Apparently 20% or more of all current scientologists are sea org and unfortunately as long as DM is running the show most of them are stuck until Scientology becomes a “no-thing”. Lower ranking sea org might escape the worst abuse but from most accounts the sea org has always been abusive and people joining never saw it coming.

      Reply

    • A=A – you seem to think that I condone such nonsense as the Hole. You really should read what I write instead of doing A=A=A when you see my name.

      Reply

  2. I audited Freddie Swartz way back in 1973 before he joined the SO, if you can believe that . Worked with Louis Swartz for many years as well . Remember Fred’s first wife, Karen. I was never in the SO, so didn’t know the other people (but having been in Applied Scholastics, my senior did work with Rena W. And Laurie Z.)

    Reply

  3. This list just blows my mind. On it are some people who were some of the kindest and caring individuals I ever met–at least when they dealt with me. It’s just plain 100% suppressiveness to continue, for years and years, to shoot from guns the Good Guys. Then again I saw names of people who really flipped into deep, evil “bad hat” personalities and didn’t really feel sorry for them ending up in the hole. But I still kinda do. I feel sorry that any of them couldn’t see it coming, didn’t recognize they were in the line of fire and needed to finally run for their lives and their sanity. Several excellent artists and creative people in different fields are on that list–they became “waste-able” I guess when the LA studio got up and running. Those guys worked 24 hours a day to do Miscavige’s bullying selfish bidding, and that’s what he does to them. True sociopathic style–when you’re done with them, no matter what, be sure to kick them to the curb. Hard, so they can’t get up again.

    Reply

  4. Mike – I noticed Diana’s name was not listed, or at least I didn’t spot it. Was there a specific reason that Miscavige didn’t confine her as well? As everyone around him displeased him to the point of being sent to the hole, I’m sure she must have also done so at one time or another, if only for the reason she was Diana Hubbard.

    I’ve heard stories that he mistreated her as all sick sociopaths do, but do you know if she was considered off-limits when it came to the hole?

    I’m anxious for him to arrive at his very own “forever-hole” in jail. Sharing it with Bubba.

    Reply

    • No, she was in the Int Events Unit, supposedly writing “scripts” for the hype videos that are shown. It was the ONE thing that Miscavige had to keep going at all costs. His “Int Events”, so people directly involved with that were generally spared the Hole. Except Gary Wiese, the Chief Editor who Miscavige hated.

      Reply

      • Mike, I know a SO member at Int who was sent there to be a script writer for his speeches. Her name is Maryed Germolous. Or she might be going by her maiden name since she and Al were divorced. Mary ed is such a weird first name for a girl, that I thought you may know her? She’s been there for decades, either on post or in the HOle. Any info you can give me on her?

        Reply

  5. This disgusts me. It also baffles me as to why the police dont do anything when there have been several accounts of people being in there or witnesses saying people are in there and theres plenty of proof….its false imprisonment…why aren’t they doing anything??? I remember Marc and Claire Headly, and you Mike, saying they gave detailed descriptions of gold and the base and the hole and identifying people from drone/satellite footage! Valerie Haneys story about Heber and the board that was made for him so he looked fine, even though hes far from it, was just horrifying and still…nobody done a God damn thing!!

    Reply

    • The police won’t get involved because the people in the hole feel it’s all part of Ron’s tech or theory will say “this is what I deserve. “

      Reply

  6. I know there was a method to Miscavige’s madness in creating the hole and then keeping people there for so long. He managed a coup of epic proportions when he took over scientology. He systematically removed all of the people who could possibly challenge him for power. Then, he used the hole to further control people. It is fairly standard cult practice to deprive people of sleep and food, while “punishing” them with little reason. People become disoriented, eventually they will do just about anything asked of them to gain freedom. If that freedom is systematically removed (even with no reason), it gains the leader an even more fervent follower. Eventually, the person is unwilling to listen to any negative for fear that they will be sent back into hell.

    I think the ones that he kept there the longest were the ones he was most scared of. Unfortunately, if they have made it out, it is unlikely they will speak out about it unless they have no hope for their ability to return to ‘grace’. In fact, they may be the ‘strongest’ supporters of this faction due to the extreme conditions they were subjected to. Although I hesitate to raise Foolproof’s ire, these are close to the same tactics that Jones used in Guyana- too little food, too little sleep, constant punishment and grueling labor. It s the classic method of gaining control of someones will.

    Even if the cult implodes, it is likely that some of these people will remain staunch supporters. They are the ones most likely to suffer the hardest path back to normalcy. Especially if they haven’t been in touch with the outside world in a long time. Even ten years away from society is a tremendous obstacle. Just think about all of the advances that have come about in that time. These poor people will need intensive help if and when they are free.

    Kat

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  7. I just finished reading Blown for Good. It gave me a whole new level of understanding on why many people don’t leave Scientology, even when treated so horribly. Sadly, these prisoners in the hole may stay there month after month (or year after year) because they fear their ability to survive on the outside, agonize over permanent disconnection from family, and in many cases actually believe that this is where they belong.

    Reply

  8. I knew several of them when in over 30 years ago. Laurie Zurn was my CO during the time I was at Social Coordination in LA. (Rena Weinberg was the CO for SOCO Africa at that time). And Claudia Olander I knew as she assigned me to the RPF in Clearwater 😉

    I would do anything I could to help any of them and all the others to break out and become free.

    NO human being deserves to be treated in the way these people were treated.

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  9. What is amazing is that those people still in Scientology do not have a clue regarding the despicable crimes Miscavige has committed towards these dedicated SO members. I was one of those clueless people not so long ago. I noticed that very few hole dwellers have actually spoken out regarding their experiences there.
    IMO that comes from the fact that Miscaviges intention was and still is to break anyone who might be a threat to his power. I know what it’s like to be broken. It’s a living hell. The people in the hole need to be liberated. I appreciate what Mike and Leah have done. And of course Tony, Jefferson, Jeffery, Karen, Jon, Chris and so many more need to be acknowledged.
    There is nothing fanatical about stopping criminals. And it’s crystal clear now who those crims are in Scientology.

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  10. I would be willing to bet that Davey got the name “the Hole” from some prison movie. It is a common Hollywood trope from the 70’s — a rebellious prisoner (played by a Clint Eastwood or Paul Newman type, of course) challenges the authority of a cruel, domineering warden, and the warden says with a sneer, “throw him in the hole!” Then you see the leading man dragged off to a dank, dark solitary confinement cell, as the warden chuckles and says something about changing his attitude. It is easy to imagine the tiny tyrant watching such a scene and gleefully identifying with the warden. Of course he would relish the opportunity to play out the scene himself in real life, even going so far as to hang up that sign so everyone knows what’s what. I’m sure he got a big kick out of it, being the malignant narcissist that he is.

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  11. O/T. VIDEO: Scientology Freedom Medal Winner Nation of Islam Minister Tony Muhammad uses Nazi anti-Semitic image and says, “the Jews have been hiding like a vampire.”

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=InWebj3rYJA

    Story tweeted. I’m going to say something which I’ve never said before here, which is that retweets, quotations adding comments and replies on Twitter are welcome.

    https://twitter.com/IndieScieNews/status/1120769555259772929

    NOTE: In case anyone was wondering, I am not an Independent Scientologist and I am not associated with Independent Scientology. I didn’t even think of Independent Scientology when I chose this ID for Twitter.

    Reply

  12. There’s a Hole in Hemet in Hemet in Hemet
    There’s a Hole in Hemet…in Hemet there’s a Hole

    Seems like no matter how much gets to the ears of the powers that be, nothing will ever be done. Sounds similar to the FLDS who moves people around WITHOUT their permission for their “wrong doings”. Families in FLDS are also ripped apart with a mother, a father, or a child being removed from the home & sent far away to REPENT for their sins. Sounds so much like “the Hole”….

    The Government knows damned well what goes on right under their noses but won’t do anything about it. The figure it’s part of a “whack job” religion so the Government separates itself from that.

    Government getting involved in religion….last time that happened they wound up with some egg on their faces when the WOMEN DEMANDED to be returned to their homes WITH their children in tow.
    Any abuse they suffer……well….so much for that.

    Reply

  13. I enjoy reading through lists like this, other than the sadness I feel for those so imprisoned. It helps me figure out what happened to some of the friends & colleagues I left behind all those years ago. What’s sad is the number of them who continued to imprison themselves in the cult for more than 20 years after I saw it was going down like the Titanic.

    Reply

    • I too. I knew a lot of these persons from PAC RPFs 82/83 and 90 and ? The last 6 or so years are still blurry.
      And so many of my friends from Estates and AOLA that went over the rainbow never to be heard of again ….

      Reply

    • jere, it is sad, But don’t worry about them too much. Some people want or need to be slaves. If they weren’t slaves of Scientology it would be of some other cult, or more likely of a specific person each of them would choose to subjugate themselves to and “serve”. Some people just like to sacrifice themselves and be victims. Its in their nature. Oh, they’ll complain and whine about it. Constantly.
      But what they say means nothing. For them, being good people means nothing less than total self abnegation for the purpose of serving another.

      Most of us would never take advantage of people with this kind of driving need because we’re horrified when we see it and want to help the person NOT be this way.

      But some will spot it and presto, “Whoo hoo, there’s my slave!” , you know?

      Don’t feel too bad, Jere. Feel good and proud that you’re a good helpful caring person which is why you got suckered into the cult, BUT at the same time, someone with a healthy sense of self love who doesn’t NEED to be a slave, which is why you woke up and got OUT.

      Reply

      • That’s pretty harsh. Many people find the military way of life acceptable and when they signed up with good intentions they never knew what was going to hit them.

        Reply

        • Yes, it is harsh. And its true that many people find the military way of life acceptable. They like living in a highly structured environment with every detail of their lives covered by organization policy and orders. And yes, they do sign up with good intentions. No argument there.

          But then, after signing up, and observing what they most assuredly can’t help but observe, seeing in full glowing color themselves the abuses the lies, the scams why do they stay?

          My theory unproven and based solely on my personal observations over the years (which makes it anecdotal “evidence”) i is that there are people who have hidden, neurotic desires and needs to self abnegate, They devote themselves, utterly, to an organization or to another person, fanatically, to the detriment of their physical and mental health. They are constantly unhappy but they will not break the attachment because they’re constantly striving for the approval of the person or organization, like its an elusive prize that they MUST win. They have very low self esteem. They like, they want, they NEED to be controlled, heavily. They LIKE every detail of their lives being micromanaged. They equate being helicoptered over with being loved.

          Do they have good intentions? Well, yeah!

          Their good intentions are not the issue.

          The issue is that they experience a great deal of abuse and neglect, and yet they stay.

          EVERYBODY signed up to the cult with good intentions.
          With the best of intentions, the purest, some of them.

          Yet, many have left. You left. I left. Countless others have left,
          Were WE who left, so special, so gifted, so aware, so much smarter, more perceptive, etc.?

          Frankly – and with no disparagement to all of us who left the cult – frankly, I don’t think so.

          I don’t think that the leaving of this cult is a hallmark of higher intelligence necessarily.

          I think there’s one difference between those who are staying and those who’ve left, and that is, that the people who are staying are OK with being self-abnegating slaves, and the ones who’ve left, were not.

          And I also think that if, and/or when the time comes when any Still In decides that he or she is no longer OK with being a slave, he/she will leave. He or she will find a way, and will get out of there, somehow.

          I think it is this one ESSENTIAL factor which separates those who stay in Scientology from those who have left (or are UTR and planning to leave).

          Not that there aren’t OTHER factors keeping them in, mind you. Very real ones.

          That said, I do believe that agreeing to be a slave is at the very essence of staying in, and that without this fundamental agreement a cult member is on his or her way out, no matter the penalties for leaving. And I do believe that there is a CORE of those Still In who are into self-abnegation big time, and NEED their lives to be about The-Group-Is-All-And-I-Am Nothing, and if they weren’t in THIS abusive cult, out of their own neurotic need they’d attach themselves to some other draining cult or abusive person and have the unhealthy, totally self-abnegating unfulfilling relationship they crave with others.

          So you see, I’m not painting ALL the Still Ins with the same broad brush. Many could be planning to leave as we speak.

          Reply

  14. I’m a never in but I think about the people in “The Hole” every single day! It disturbs to my very core.

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  15. Yager was identified by someone as the guy holding a camera phone filming the channel 9 crew during the Shelly 60 minutes episode, he was with Ed Parkin. Not sure if he’s been released from the hole though.

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  16. So couldn’t someone who has been in The Hole go to the authorities and say they have information on people being held captive, give the police the exact location, and the authorities could go in with a search warrant and see for themselves? What is preventing something like that from happening?

    Reply

    • Frank Drebin, are you related to Steve Drebin? Or did he spell it Steve Drabin? He was SO and left the SO but stayed a public Scn. But that could have changed and he might have left altogether. Any news on him?

      Reply

  17. Another example of the actions of the most most “ethical group on the planet” hey? Scientology is a prison from whichever way you view it. This is the hard evidence management version. I hope Karma has a special reckoning for Miscavige.

    Reply

  18. So so what would happen if someone in the hole demands to be released immediately, informing them that they are being detained illegally and they will go to the authorities if not released? Do they still keep them imprisoned?

    Sorry if this is a dumb question but I guess I’ve never really understood.

    Reply

    • If they really insist, they would normally be allowed to go if there is anyone with half a brain there.

      When Tom DeVocht jumped the gate and the Security Guards tried to physically restrain him and I made them stop (he was right on the highway).

      But who knows, and if you were just in the Hole and nobody from the outside could possibly witness what was happening I don’t know. In the past they have sent people out and literally grabbed people and bundled them into a van and returned them to the property

      Reply

      • Wow! on the Highway? I’m so glad the attempt to close that road by gold base as a public thoroughfare failed.

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      • I’d imagine too that with any other cult, they’ve got their folks on the inside of the local PD who if not directly in cahoots with retrieval/return of escapees, will at very least look the other way when people attempt to flee but are dragged back screaming ala: Rosemary’s Baby.

        Reply

        • Int/Gold Base is in Gilman Hot Springs which is unincorporated. Law enforcement is the Riverside County Sheriff’s Department. It is very unlikely CoS has any real fans on the RCSD, nor that they would be intimidated by CoS, although presumably they desire cordial relations with all of their constituents. (The nearest RCSD station is in Hemet about 5 miles away.)

          No doubt the sheriffs who patrol the area are familiar with the base and the issues that arise there (particularly CoS complaints on trespassers).

          But Marc Headley also recounted in Blown for Good that the sheriffs were helpful and appeared concerned that they accompany him to make sure he was not bothered further by base security.

          So law enforcement favoritism for CoS isn’t an issue at Int/Gold. On the other hand there are ample controversies that arise involving LAPD/LACSD and Pac, particularly since so many officers and sheriffs earn major off-duty pay staffing CoS events.

          Finally, Int/Gold is dwindling away. It has only a fraction of the inhabitants it had 15 years ago. Miscavige apparently spends little or no time there in recent years. It would be great if Mike and other former Int base staff could provide (through rumors, contacts) any current information about the status of Int base in 2019. Miscavige has wiped out the exec strata, has duplicated Gold in LA, and appears to not go there himself. What vital activity is actually being done at Int base these days is a mystery.

          Reply

          • You ought to watch some of the YouTube videos with RCSD deputies explaining that they “dont care” what goes on behind the gates of Gold. And the parties they throw for the RCSD and their families…

            Primarily what is being done at the Base these days is “tape restoration” — removing dust from the 3,000+ Hubbard lectures.

            Reply

      • Mike Rinder:
        “if there is anyone with half a brain there.”
        THAT’S quite a big IF. IMO, Anyone still there is minimally half brain-dead. So speaks a guy who has MRIs and CT scans showing the right hemisphere of his brain is non-operating. Of course, to keep me from getting too depressed about it, the docs were careful to note that while I wasn’t in my right mind, so to speak, there was plenty LEFT.

        Reply

        • jere,

          Proof of your brain being just fine is that you woke up and got out.

          THAT is my “hidden standard” for whether or not a Scientologist has any brains.

          A Scientologist with a brain wakes up and gets OUT.

          A Scientologist with sub-par intelligence stays IN.

          Seriously.

          I’m not being funny. That IS what I believe.

          Reply

        • True, that. And I know a few Still Ins who are very good at their professions. But I still think of them as brainless. Because they’re BLIND to something very easily observable that’s right in front of them. Brainless.

          Reply

    • Doug

      AFAICT, there aren’t many stupid questions. I’ve found that if one person, you, has a question, up to 100 others have the same one.

      Reply

  19. Luckily I was sent to the Rehabilitation Project Force in Florida a few weeks before the hole was created. And I was able to escape from there. I shutter to think that I’d still be locked up 14 years later in that hell hole. I know every one of these people – and some for more than 20 years.

    What about Sherry Murphey (Fields Exec Int), Fran Harris (Books Exec Int) and Nigel Oaks (Int Finance)? Were they in the hole?

    I’m praying for those who left to speak out and those still in to get the courage to escape and return to their families.

    Reply

    • Amy — I think Sherry had already been sent to LA? Fran was chopping thumbtabs in books in Gold and Nigel had long since been despatched to the PAC RPF (He could still be there for all I know).

      My memory is not 100% perfect. This list was made 7 or more years ago so it is likely more accurate than what my recollection is now.

      Reply

    • I wish someday, somehow, I could get the word on my most dear friends who I left behind. Carmen Wiese, Judy Paransky and Olga. Just about anyone else who I considered a friend at one point or another had already left, or pulled the bully trip on me or bought into that thing about “Look to your left, look to your right…any one of those people could be committing suppressive acts against you right now.” Remember that crap? All of a sudden you had no friends at all. That was a Miscavige tool to alienate the staff from each other and actually made them hate each other for NO reason. Anyway….the list sure brought back some memories, great ones and some very sad ones indeed. Carmen, Judy and Olga… please turn up someday soon.

      Reply

  20. Mike, just a quick note that the Edit capability seems to have disappeared again (at least for me). I suppose I should really force myself to write posts to an editor and then spell check them before actually posting them to your blog. It looks so shabby to have a post filled with spelling & grammar errors and typos.

    No need for you to publish this post. Please delete it if you like. I just wanted to let you know there may be some problem although I fear the problem may be of my own making somehow.

    Ack! Edited to say that it has now returned. I made a post early this morning and it had no Edit capability. So, I assumed this post would not have one either. But I was wrong again. This post enabled me to edit. Sigh.

    Reply

    • Skyler &Mike, the EDIT functionality was operative for me a couple of minutes ago.

      ETA: And it’s operative right now.

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  21. What a COB hive of scum and villainy! Immoral in every way using “For the greatest good” BS. The lying, manipulating, brain washing and thieving on behalf of LRH’s twisted tech is astounding. A shame more people aren’t or weren’t as immediately turned off by the rabid cult as I was in my dealings with them. I knew the Force® was not with them though the Dark Side was. They never should have taken hold anywhere.

    Reply

    • Peter:

      Along with all his OTHER squirreling, Dwarfenführer redefined “greatest good” to mean ‘Greatest good for DM’.

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  22. Thank you for naming these people. The more attention they get, the better. I wish they could be rescued, but I know you and your colleagues are doing all you possibly can to help them.

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      • I saw Fred Schwartz on there. Is this the same Fred Schwartz who was at the Flag office in LA and married to Gretchen Schwartz (RIP)? If it is the same one, I heard from some FSM’s some time ago that Fred has Altzheimer’s. So why incarcerate someone with a mental condition? Why not put them in a nursing home on welfare and let the state pay which is what they have been doing all along?Will

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          • Thanks Mreppin1, So is Fred incarcerated even while having Altzheimer’s? It makes no sense. Maybe DM is scared he will spill the beans. But with that condition, I doubt he could even remember the atrocities., which makes him no threat to DM.

            Maybe someone should contact the Elder Abuse Hotline to turn in they are keeping an ill senior locked up there. And same for Heber and the others.

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            • Maybe Gretchen Schwartz is the smart one. She got out without having to go via the RPF route. She dropped the body to escape. I hope wherever she is and whatever she’s doing it doesn’t include any inclination to join a cult this time around.

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            • Cyndi, I think one of Miscavige’s nightmares is that an old timer who knows too much will start talking too freely in his old age. I believe that some medications can now result in some improvement in dementia, plus Miscavige has just got to be paranoid, so there is no way he dare loosen his grasp on anyone who knows too much.

              They must be having to spend increasing resources to provide adult day care for high-value seniors. And something is bound to go wrong eventually, whether or not they manage to contain it.

              Ironically, society and the law are less tolerant of Scientology doing what it has done to these people all along, when they get to be old and are seen as vulnerable and at risk of exploitation.

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              • “I think one of Miscavige’s nightmares is that an old timer who knows too much will start talking too freely in his old age. ”

                Naw, that has already happened MANY times. Some even wrote books that you can buy PeaceMaker.

        • I audited Freddie Swartz way back in 1973 before he joined the SO, if you can believe that . Worked with Louis Swartz for many years as well . Remember Fred’s first wife, Karen. I was never in the SO, so didn’t know the other people (but having been in Applied Scholastics, my senior did work with Rena W. And Laurie Z.)

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  24. I read this list with a certain amount of trepidation. I didn’t see my friend Sherry Murphy listed so I was somewhat relieved at that. Hopefully she has remained out of the Hole since this list was compiled. I did see some of her former co-workers listed, Greg and Debbie Hughes of Sterling Management. To the best of my knowledge they were the ones who got Sherry into the SO and it is too bad they remain silent.

    Another silent one on the list of those who have managed to depart is Jon Horwich. I bet he would have a LOT to say given his history of very close proximity to the Hubbard family.

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  26. The insanity of The Hole is a reflection of the insanity of Miscavige. Pretty much everyone on that list have completely dedicated their lives for the last 30 to 40 years for the benefit of Scientology. They have gotten nothing for themselves. Everyone on that list have worked hundreds, if not thousands of nights with NO SLEEP. Each of these people are very competent or they wouldn’t have been elevated up to the positions they held. They are now in their 50’s, 60’s and even 70’s. They don’t have bank accounts, credit, job histories, retirements, assets, etc. They have no idea how they would survive outside the Sea Org if they could even escape. They live and work inside the secure compound. If they could get outside the compound they aren’t about to out run security and cross the desert to the nearest town. Their reward for their decades of dedication is to be placed in the most degrading situation possible. The intention of Miscavige is to degrade and break mentally the best and brightest. It is pure EVIL. There is no other way to say it. Miscavige has gotten these people totally isolated out on the desert and he has created a hell for them because he detests and hates these people. He is consumed by hate and evil.

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    • Matt,, as usual you do an excellent job explaining the mental rape that goes on at The Ecclesiastical Leaders David Miscaviage’s (Appel Box Boy) International Headquarters ! If you don’t mind I’d like to ad to your statement to make it clearly understood that The Hole was/is the pinnacle of degrading conditions afforded those who find themselves surprisingly in disfavor with Applebox Boy. “The Hole has ALWAYS existed but in different locations around the property and in different slave labor states. As you are well aware of back in 82 RTC Conditions Order #1 which dealt with Mayo and those associated with him at the time that was from my eye witness the first of the many yet to come Holes. All Int Base Staff worked their assigned jobs as best they could until they F’d up on Daves lines and to The Hole they were sent where I and my guards would watch and account for them 24/7/365. There is so much more to be said about that crap I apologize I don’t have time to elaborate. I simply wanted to add to your and Mikes statement about The Hole and those who lost their souls within it.
      – Jackson

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    • How is this not human rights violations is beyond my comprehension!! Where are the authorities? The authorities should be held liable for tolerating even the idea that this is happened or still happening!!

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  27. This is so sad, especially for the one I know and love who is still at Int Base. Many of these people are elderly by now; it is elder abuse.

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    • Elder abuse! Yes, if this list of names could be given to the authorities and told that they are all elder and are held prisoner there, maybe there would be a raid on the place and people would be freed.

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  28. What a powerful video it would be if all these people got together and told their stories. What an impact it would make.

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    • I think they’re too broken/degraded by now. After being brainwashed for so long, I don’t even know if they would leave! Scientology = TRAP.

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  30. Sad to see so many folks I knew back in “my days” are stuck in The Hole. The Wilheres, the Reynolds, Ingbers, Heber and even the father of Blubbard’s grand daughter Jon Horwich.

    What a despicable state of affairs.

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        • Maybe we could have our own version of Squirrel Busters who were not bad like they were, but who went, two at a time, to the homes of the few who are out but not talking. They could have a calm conversation persuading them to speak out and that any Non Disclosure Agreement they signed is not enforceable, and that they owe it to the prisoners of the hole to speak out. That’s an idea we could try. The people who talk to them would have to be OL’s to them, people they look up to.

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      • Mike, is Heber still in? He was a good guy. I remember him saying something like, ‘I’ll never leave the Hole’. Or something like that.

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  31. That is a lot of people to be in the secret prison? Oh, it issn’t so secret. Too bad the FBI never raided the HOLE. It only takes one prisoner to sign the complaint and Miscavige would get the Raniere treatment.

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  32. In any discussion of The Hole, I think it’s very important to make the following point.

    The following point has been explained many times in this blog. If the police (or someone like them) were to raid The Hole and release all the people imprisoned there and told them, “You all are now free. We are going to charge The Monster with False Imprisonment, Unlawful Confinement, False Arrest, Kidnapping, Forcible Confinemens and Wilful Detention. If you will just sign the following complaint, we will be able to put him away for the rest of his life.”

    Most people are shocked to learn that almost none of the people locked up in The Hole will agree to sign any complaint. They almost always tell the authorities, “We are here under our own volition. No one has forced us to be here. We are all free to leave any time we want.”

    Most people who read this for the first time are shocked because they do not understand the incredible power of brainwashing.

    I say it’s important to make this point because I’ve been witness many, many times to people who do not understand how this cult brainwashes people is able to make the lie and say they are in The Hole under their own volition.

    But it’s essential for people to understand that for many reasons. Not the least is so they can understand the power of brainwashing.

    What a filthy scam. Could you ever believe that people will not only go along with their own imprisonment but actually defend the people who are confining (and often torturing) them?

    It’s a very difficult concept to grasp. But if you look through past editions of this blog, you will see many examples where this phenomena is explained.

    LRH may have been a thoroughly despecible bastard and cult leaders like him may well deserve to spend the rest of their lives behind bars. But they surely are not stupid. They have these scams worked out really well. You must admit they have things pretty well figured out.

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    • That’s true Skyler but I remember Mary Kahn saying she thinks some would leave. I wish they would raid it and see what happens.

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    • The women from FLDS did just that. Warren Jeffs & a few others were arrested and imprisoned. These FLDS “wives” demanded to be released and sent back to the FLDS compound with their children. It’s the only life they know, they truly believe if they don’t obey the Prophet they will die and never get to Heaven.

      Although some things have changed (supposedly) Warren Jeffs still runs the FLDS compound from prison….during telephone calls. His loyal following still obey his “visions” as crazy as it seems. Can’t save someone who does NOT want to BE saved.

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      • Balletlady,

        I am interested in the study of cults (as Im sure you guys are all aware), and the FLDS is, in many ways, a cult more than a sect. One of the most profound things that I heard was something that one of the women of FLDS said regarding Warren Jeffs and his ‘legitimacy’ as the ‘prophet’ that they had followed their entire lives. Regardless of all of the evidence to the contrary, she stated she “HAD” to believe that he would be released and would return to lead them. That statement told me a lot about the thinking of these people. She had spent her entire life believing that Jeffs was the prophet, and the thought that it was a a lie was something she would NEVER be able to accept. It would mean that she has been living a complete lie and that every thing she had believed in and worked for was a lie. That type of psychic injury cannot be sustained by some people- they would be unable to handle it. Like I said- it takes someone VERY strong to be able to completely dismiss a belief system that they have invested a lifetime to.

        Kat

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    • Skyler, good points. That illustrates the paradox of “the hole” that has to be understood.

      The question is, what do society and the law do to address the issues, and abuses? It’s not as straightforward as kidnapping or slavery, though it has elements of both. Stockholm Syndrome is another parallel of sorts:

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stockholm_syndrome

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  33. I wish CoS would get the kind of heat that NXIVM is getting now… And I hope, eventually, it will! (NXIVM, pronounced “nexium”, is a smaller, lesser known cult, see Tony Ortega’s blog for regular news on the legal proceedings.)

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  34. Amazing that all those people allowed one person to subject them to that. Boggles the mind. I’m SURE that there is some version of this still in existence. I nut-job like DM cannot function without it

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  35. It seems like there’s a lot more women than men on this list. Are the boxes that are The Hole co-Ed and divided inside? I remember The Hole being talked about and that there are bars on the windows – couldn’t the fire inspector be called for a surprise visit for fire safety? I can’t believe anyone incarcerated there would still be a member once they’re let out….

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    • AIUI, men slept in the conference room and women slept in the surrounding offices; as for the bars, they apparently weren’t up for very long – I believe Miscavige realised that they would look bad to outsiders passing the compound.

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  37. My ex-husband, Andy Lenarcic was/is there. Wake up people! You can get out. DM will never let you out.

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  38. Hard to believe, really. I used to know some of them and I remember they were kind, dedicated and it was nice to share some time with them.

    I hope they are alive and that, somehow, they will get help…one way or another.

    Miscavage’s karma looks awful as time goes on…a putrefied soul.

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  39. Isn’t it funny how, as soon as you and the others spoke up about what it was like in The Hole, the prisoners were suddenly allowed to sleep in beds and not have to eat slop anymore? Shows how scared Miscavige is of you all. Incidentally, I’d be interested to know if anyone here happens to know what goes on in The Hole nowadays. Do they still have to beat ‘confessions’ out of each other and crawl around on the floor until they bleed? Truly barbaric.

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  40. That is astonishing. That is horrible. Leah did a missing person report for Shelly. Can’t a missing person report be done for these people. Or a APS report so that a welfare check can be done on these people if you know where they are? This is against the law right. But authorities either don’t know or turn a blind eye because no one is advocating for these people. WE have to advocate for them. We have to report it. To the FBI. Kidnapping and holding a person against their will is a federal crime punishable by years in jail.

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    • Dawn, legally the person has to be missing from where a family members says that they should be. For instance, just because I (a person you don’t know well or live with) am not where YOU want me to be doesn’t mean you can file a missing persons report on me and have action taken.

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  41. I’m just curious: The people that remain at Int, are they still in “The Hole?” or what? How has life changed for the people still there since it was exposed? Or at least what have you heard about it?

    I have the strangest reaction reading those names. Most of them I don’t know and have never heard of. Then there are those who I read and they make me angry, like Jenny Linson, or the ones that have left and don’t speak out. Then there are those that I remembered from way back when, like Rena Weinberg – had lunch with her and a group of “fun-loving” young adults – before Rena was given more and more “responsibilities.” Can’t imagine what she is like now.

    Then I recognized the name Aron Mason. His mom (a classical violinist) and I started out at a little ole mission in Richardson, Texas. We trained as auditors together. I remember when Aron was born and I remember him as a sweet little boy. But I think I heard he is/was pretty “hard core” but Scientology does not bring out the best in people. One never knows who these people would be or who they really are until they get out of this mind-fuck of a cult.

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    • Unfortunately from my experience with Aaron Mason, the int base sea org turned him into a nasty little wannabe bully of a fellow. A real snot, very holier than thou. This illustrates something that happens to staff there–they start to get that bully attitude, and they think it’s the successful way to act in order to gain favor and continue to be able to stick around. Turns into a matter of personal survival. Then they forget who they are acting it out on–like someone very senior to themselves. Then they land in more hot water as they stay in that new-found supposedly “successful” personality. Very unfortunate. And one never knows what a good person any of those folks would have really been had they not joined the suppressive sea org at any level, especially at the int base. At least if you remained just a public church member and never joined a staff, you could get the heck out a lot easier. Reminds me of an old popular song with a twist… “Mama don’t let your kids grow up to be sea org.”

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