I tweeted the other day that law enforcement needs to empanel Grand Juries to get the facts about scientology. More effective would be a raid to seize their files, but that is a much harder process especially when dealing with an organization that hides behind the cloak of religion.
What is a Grand Jury and why would it be effective?
A grand jury is a jury – a group of citizens – empowered by law to conduct legal proceedings and investigate potential criminal conduct, and determine whether criminal charges should be brought. A grand jury may subpoena physical evidence or a person to testify. A grand jury is separate from the courts, which do not preside over its functioning.
There are different types of Grand Juries — Federal and State and State laws vary. What I am laying out here are the laws pertaining to Federal Grand juries, but they are generally similar to State Grand Juries.
The investigatory functions of grand juries include obtaining and reviewing documents and other evidence, and hearing sworn testimonies of witnesses who appear before it; the accusatory function determines whether there is probable cause to believe that one or more persons committed a certain offence within the venue of a district court.
A grand jury in the United States is usually composed of 16 to 23 citizens. The grand jury is so named because traditionally it has more jurors than a trial jury.
Grand Jury proceedings are held ex parte (without the right of the other side to be present) and in secret. The accused has no knowledge nor right to interfere with their proceedings.
The prosecutor drafts the charges and reads them to the grand jury. There is no requirement that the grand jury be read any instructions on the law, and such instructions are rarely given.
A prosecutor can obtain a subpoena to compel anyone to testify before a grand jury, without showing probable cause and, in most jurisdictions, without even showing that the person subpoenaed is likely to have relevant information. In the federal system the prosecutor is not required to demonstrate any relevance. The person subpoenaed to testify then is compelled to answer questions unless he or she can claim a specific privilege, such as the marital privilege, lawyer/client privilege, or the privilege against self-incrimination.
In the federal system, a witness cannot have his or her lawyer present in the grand jury room, although witnesses may interrupt their testimony and leave the grand jury room to consult with their lawyer. A few states do allow a lawyer to accompany the witness; some allow the lawyer to advise his or her client, others merely allow the lawyer to observe the proceeding.
A witness who refuses to testify without legal justification will be held in contempt of court, and is subject to incarceration for the remaining term of the grand jury. A witness who testifies falsely may be separately prosecuted for perjury.
As is probably quite apparent, the proceedings of a Grand Jury can circumvent many of the tricks scientology uses to hoodwink or stymie investigations.
The single most important point is that a witness cannot have a lawyer coaching them when they give testimony and are doing so under penalty of perjury. They must decide ON THEIR OWN whether to tell the truth or lie, not knowing who else may be testifying or what they might say. And scientology has no right to know what evidence is being collected or what testimony has been given. When someone is testifying in a proceeding with a lawyer present, especially someone who has been taught to lie (See Why Do Scientologists Lie?) there are two things that happen: the lawyer protects the witness from questions they don’t want them to answer with objections and interruptions and whispered instructions and the witness understands there is someone there who is going to report back on exactly what they said. When you have someone who fears the consequences of telling the truth, combined with someone who believes they are entitled to lie for “the greatest good” you rarely get the truth. But with nobody able to know what is said, no lawyer helping guide and the consequence of spending time in jail for refusing to answer or giving false testimony, the likelihood is that a percentage of people will tell the truth. And as soon as that happens, the walls come tumbling down.
This is the method used by the Attorney General in Pennsylvania — the findings of the Grand Jury detailed widespread sexual abuse in the Catholic Church.
Mary N. says
I don’t know if I agree that the reason Scientology gets away with breaking laws is because they have tax exempt status. Correct me of I am wrong, but did they have that umbrella of protection back in 1977 when the FBI raided them and took their files? There was plenty of evidence of their crimes, but the government did not shut them down. The powers at be also could have gotten them on RICO years ago and did nothing. Instead of stating that he government can’t touch them due to tax exempt status, isn’t it because the powers at be are either afraid or simply don’t care?
Peggy L says
I had hoped that somehow they could be investigated and charged due to the RICO ACT because they sure seem to fit into the corrupt organization slot IPMO.
That would require a Grand Jury indictment Peggy.
Mr. David Miscavige, you are the one who takes no blame the perceived shortcomings of all your underlings, yet accept all the hollow glory of your underlings’ perceived successes…
Will you be man enough to stand tall (cough) to face up to a Federal Grand Jury and accept the consequences of all your religion’s (cough) transgressions?
My bet is … No.
You are a cowardly little thug who hides behind lawyers and sycophants all telling how wonderful you are, all the while knowing how weak and vulnerable you really are.
You really are fucked, Mr. COB. Fucked by all you trusted.
GEEZ-UZZ, you are a miserable little wretch of a human, so fucking pathetic.
Christian Scott says
I couldn’t have said that any better
Last time, 2 years, I tried to drop the F-bomb I was denied. Glad to see it finally dropped. And 3 x in one post, no less. I love it.
Not to raise anyone’s hopes here, but there may ALREADY be a GJ dealing with Scientology; i think that their activities have gotten even more extreme in recent years, ESPECIALLY regarding the US government. I say this b/c I’m a constant target of Scientology harassment, even though I’ve never been in the cult nor knew anything about it until I figured out it was Scientology that was harassing me. They have my phone hacked; they HATE when I read about certain news topics (my wifi will suddenly shut off, pages won’t load, etc.)
Keep your fingers crossed, everyone, and keep pressuring the Fed and State authorities to act. I could be wrong. Thanks for all you do, Mike!
Ann Davis says
Skedag, why are they harassing you?
They aren’t Ann. I’m a long time computer security guy and this guy has other problems than OSA harassing him…
I smell a TROLL, Wynski.
Then change your under arm deodorant skedag. I can see you via your computer cam 😉
Is that so? That’s pretty damn amazing since my cam has had electrical tape over it for years! Guess you need to go back to IT school, TROLL. BYE!
Electrical tape doesn’t block the entire IR spectrum. :0 CMOS is of course sensitive to that part of the EM Spectrum.
Wynski, besides the fact that your comment sounds like a scare tactic, can you explain how you are able to watch Skedag through her webcam? Do you know who she is? Wouldn’t that be considered to be illegal hacking and harassment?
Perhaps you’re one of the people harassing her….
LMAO Rose, you took that seriously? LMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Took WHAT seriously? That you’re trying to scare people who have already been scared by some type of harassment? THATS the part I took seriously – that you’re an abusive troll pretending your comments are hilarious jokes. They aren’t.
How do we know that you’re not really working for scientology, and your comments are intended to intimidate those being harassed? I
Hi Ann, NOW they are harassing me b/c I’m talking about being harassed – I’m a gay woman and a journalist, which we all know they hate. As to why they originally started, only COB knows. The best I can figure is that one of my “friends” back in the early 2000’s was a Scientologist who was trying to recruit me (although she never ACTUALLY did) – I stopped talking to her b/c her behavior was getting strange and controlling; I think she had a grudge about that.
Len Zinberg says
In the mid-1980’s a Grand Jury was empaneled in the Southern District of New York, and Charles Batdorf, a GO/OSA operative with whom I’d worked was called to testify.
Rather than providing testimony of his extensive first-hand knowledge of many of the criminal activities that Scientology had undertaken to destroy Paulette Cooper, Batdorf refused to cooperate, and was jailed for several months on contempt charges, and after his release was given a hero’s welcome.
It was completely planned, orchestrated and executed at the highest levels of Scientology in coordination with their criminal defense attorneys.
This is how the Mafia behaves, not a Church.
Len, you must have never read much about the Catholic Church…
At the end of last night’s segment was a statement to the effect that local individuals had been asked to contribute, but had declined. People, don’t you realize that the Only way to fight a Bully is to Stand Up to him? Leah and Mike are making headway against these monsters – Support them . . . . . . Please
Brian Thomas Lambert says
If everyone takes a stand they haven’t a chance. If a billion dollar Enron can be taken down this social pariah can.
You need to convince a prosecutor that he has a case that can be made.
I Yawnalot says
And there lies the hook. What bait does one put on it?
Christian Scott says
Shelly if we can find her
Yeah. Grand Juries are not (supposed to be) fishing expeditions. The prosecutor has to have a case he/she is trying to get an indictment on.
I Yawnalot says
Thanks for the clarity of what a grand jury is and does. I guess a question I have not being American is, who or what circumstance/situation gets to choose what under what jurisdiction or state/location a grand jury can be convened? Slippery Dave seems to be of “no fixed address” or “it’s got nothing to do with me, I was never there,” when he wants to it to be that way. Or does it take just one of his ‘flock’ to get swept up in a grand jury situation that can potentially link him to be called in for evidence gathering/questioning? It confusing trying to get a handle on what it would take for MIscavige to front such a jury – he’s avoided it thus far. Or is that exactly the point that’s protected him?
I Yawn, slippery Dave would be able to plead the 5th so not an issue. The other SO members can be ordered to attend in another state. THEY are the ones that would be questioned about HIS activities.
I Yawnalot says
Oh, I see. So Slimy is his middle name then.
P.S. – It’s Great to see Mark Bunker again, and looking so well. Best wishes.
If nothing more, I would think this entire exercise would be in the interest of exposing the result and extent of ‘undue influence’ leveraged on the average $, and that in itself would warrant further investigation. This would go a long way toward raising cult awareness in general, and, having read up on grand jury procedures, this will give them a good taste of their own medicine.
With thanks to Irving Berlin:
I’m dreaming of a Grand Jury
To catch the crooks I used to know
Where the cons and tricksters
And bullshit grifters
Fool too many with their show
I’m dreaming of a Grand Jury
With every congressman I write
May DM’s abuses come to light
And you carry on with all your might
Ms. B. Haven says
I think everyone who frequents this site, with the exception of some of the regular trolls, wants the cult shut down. I think there is a remote possibility that the cult, the official Church of Scientology, can be severely crippled, but scientology will never go away. I don’t think that is such a bad thing either. It’s the cult itself that has the power to cause so much harm. You don’t hear of much abuse with indies or freezoners. They don’t have the club of ‘ethics tech’ to wield. If someone doesn’t like the service they are getting, they can just walk away. Only an idiot indie or freezoner would deny a refund for services that didn’t turn out the way that the customer desired. They have no bogus 1st Amendment protections. That’s not to say that what indies and freezoners are offering isn’t just their version of Hubbard’s snake oil. It is. But people are always going to buy snake oil and they should have every right to do so. Everyone needs their very own favorite placebo if they think they need one. Sometimes they help. Mostly not. There are lots of silver bullet therapies that have come and gone since Hubbard’s bestseller, DMSMH, came out in 1950. Most are going or gone. You don’t hear of many folks clamoring to engage in Primal Scream Therapy these days. Why? Just like scientology, it doesn’t work, but they are still around and there have been scads of splinter groups form around this therapy just as there have been scads of ‘squirrel groups’ form as a result of splintering off of scientology. I even know of some who doesn’t even know they have done this. Here’s an example: scientology>est>Wings Seminars>(my friend’s consulting group). By the time it reached this level, my friends don’t even know a thing about the workings of scientology, they just took what they learned from a Wings Seminar and tailored it to their own needs and started a business consulting group that looks nothing like scientology or uses any of the jargon but they got a business that they enjoyed and customers who probably got some benefit from their consultations just because someone listened to them and understood their problems. No big deal. No one was harmed and if someone wasn’t happy they got their money back and walked away.
One of the latest fad therapies out there is Earthing. This practice gets people to walk around barefoot to balance the electrical energy in their bodies. I’m not shitting anyone here. Of course there are plenty of auxiliary devices to purchase to supplement the practice and all can be had for a tidy sum. This too will go away in due time.
I think the only way that the cult of scientology will be corralled will be by going after their tax-exempt status and removing their 1st Amendment rights that they hide behind so well. The abuse they deliver to their staff and public will go no where. Why? The vast majority of these folks are securely bound in their prison of belief. Why else would someone give away vast sums of money or their own lives or the lives of their children? Can you imagine Shelly Miscavige being subpoenaed to testify in front of a Grand Jury. I don’t think it would go well and the same could be said for just about any resident of the Hole. The majority of those folks wouldn’t walk away from Int Base if there were no razor wire containing them. Sad but true.
Mike suggested this a while back and I’ll suggest it again. Watch the documentary series ‘Wild, Wild Country’. This lays bare why it is so difficult to penetrate a cult. And these guys didn’t even have near the ‘ethics’ structure in place that scientology does. As one of the prosecutors or investigators said, “Sometimes you can have all the evidence in the world and that doesn’t help much. Sometimes you just get lucky [with getting the right witness(es)]”. That’s not the exact quote, but close enough. The documentary is well worth watching and the film makers did an excellent job of not coming to any conclusions for the audience. Watch it. And by the way, this cult is alive and well even without their ‘guru’ and his 90-some Rolls Royces.
As an old co-worker of mine used to say: “you can make something foolproof, but it’s hard to make something idiot proof” OK, sometimes on this very blog there are exceptions…
Ann Davis says
Great comment Ms. B.
Yes, I agree. Great comment. Steel bars can imprison your body but not your mind. The mind can’t be imprisoned material objects. Only uninspected stable data can imprison a mind and only the truth can free the mind from such a prison.
Mat Pesch says
Mary Kahn says
So if an attorney or a wife is given immunity do they HAVE to testify or be in contempt or are they still protected?
Can the prosecutor ask questions like, “Have you ever given money to the church of scientology, IAS, Super Power Project, Ideal Org Campaign, Basic Books, or for auditing or training just to have them stop harassing you for it?” “Why did you feel that you just couldn’t say ‘no’?” Oh! One can dream. I have more.
A wife cannot be compelled to testify against a husband. Attorneys cannot testify if it violates atty/client priv. But, other than that if one is given immunity (a complex process) they have to testify or risk being cited with contempt.
They can then ask any pertinent questions. Grand Juries are convened when a prosecutor wants to bring specific and serious criminal charges against someone. The Grand Jury decides if there is enough evidence to send the defendant to trial. They don’t deal with misdemeanors. It isn’t hard to get an indictment as the prosecutor can lie by omission to the Grand Jury as they are ex parte (which is unconstitutional per the 6th Amendment).
Ammo Alamo says
Susan McDougal is the poster child for all that is wrong with the grand jury system, and much that is wrong with both the judicial and prison systems. Personally, I hope to never be called to testify before a grand jury.
Who is Susan McDougal?
Bill and Hillary’s White Water partner. She went to jail rather than tell a Grand Jury about Bill & Hillary’s adventures.
Bill and Hillary probably paid her handsomely to take the fall for her.
Watching last night’s episode was truly heartbreaking. To hear that the “FBI needs OVER WHELMING evidence” blah blah blah….sadly these former members aren’t recently OUT, so like milk that’s been sitting in the fridge too long….their “testimony is deemed useless” i.e. Statute of Limitations EXPIRED”.
To hear agencies are AFRAID to take on “the organization”….I can fully understand that, it’s a knock down, drag out battle where he says vs. she says with no real viable resolution. Scientology isn’t going anywhere any time soon, they’ve got a strong foothold fortress on Clear Water & they’re not letting go of it. There would be far too many sleepless nights & battles back and forth….religious freedom is NOT FREE …..especially when the “church member” is paying HUGE amounts to “belong”??? Wow, interesting point of view??
So many prettily painted buildings, useless as far as a tax base goes, can someone give us info on what the home owner’s TAXES are in the area? How much IS a home owner paying to support Clear Water “services” such as the POLICE FORCE, FIRE DEPT, AMBULANCE, MEDICAL SITES….while the “church” who owns MANY of these downtown buildings PAY NOTHING BUT CAN USE THOSE SERVICES FOR FREE? Seriously, if there’s a fire in ANY of the COS buildings, the local fire department will definitely BE there risking their lives. We sure as HELL see the local POLICE FORCE show up when “someone not a member” is on “COS property” don’t we? WHO pays for the Police Force to show up when COS makes a complaint…..let me guess…it is NOT them.
My heart aches for Robert who invented the clean ice machine…just HOW does a “church group” get to break into and interrupt a PRIVATE meeting? How does a church group get to cut down someone’s hedges or trees to SPY on what’s going on inside a PRVATE OFFICE or HOME…that’s an invasion of PRIVACY…to follow some around “tailing them, filming them” to me is STALKING.
So….the COS PUBLIC….who financially SUPPORTS COS isn’t/ wasn’t ALLOWED to KNOW where “Gold Base” is? Huh, how the HELL does THAT happen? That would be like financially supporting the Catholic Church’s VATICAN ( in Rome, Italy.)..but you were NOT ALLOWED to KNOW where it is? I mean no one stops the Jewish population from going to the “Wailing Wall”…or the Muslims going to….scheez??
The IRS really re-examining their Tax Exempt Status…I highly doubt that will EVER happen…..as noted….NO AGENCY wants to take “THEM” on…..EVER. You know damned well those “files” will never be found….Marc, Claire, Mike, who spoke of viewing & getting physically abused & following the “money trails”…too many EARS on the outside will get a WHIFF of a possible RAID beforehand & everything will be burned, shredded, Computer Hard Drives destroyed….
Ain’t life grand when you can be the BAD GUY & get AWAY with Physical Assaults, Rape, Forced Abortions, not paying your “employees”, trying to cure people with QUACK medical care….Refusing to return $$$ for service NOT used, demanding every $$$ someone has to move up an invisible bridge that doesn’t exist. WHY would all these lovely former members LIE about it?
Grand Jury…..somebody better have ALOT of available time off when they are in daily sessions….”the organization” has so many lawyers to tie this up for years. Is there ANY chance that “the organization” will be out there “filming, following certain people outside the court room, sitting outside possible residences of those they see enter & exit the Court House to try to figure out just WHO is seated? Will they be “too afraid” to stand outside restaurants after the court session is over to try to INTIMADATE anyone? Will these die hard members be willing to go to PRISON for “the organization”….Yeah, probably.
HOLY CRAP….Lron sure as HELL knew what he was doing when he wanted to make money by…what was it…”starting a religion”. Then seemingly the take over by “little man” is carrying on that mantle & raking In huge bucks…..WOW….to think this is NOT SCI FI…..(science fiction) THIS SHIT IS REAL, it’s not that nightmare you sometimes have that seems so real, & you wake up and find it’s not…THAT IS THE REALLY SCARY PART.
Chad Williams says
I watched the new AE Leah Rhemini/Mike Rinder Scientology episode last night. I live in AZ and am familiar with the polygimist cult run by Warren Jeffs. Listening to Betsy Steg really brought back many similar issues that the AZ cult is so much like Scientology. Brainwashing, abuse, separating/disconnecting from families & so much more. This is a church? So the “fair game” treatment is clearing the planet? Of what?
Speaking of the FLDS, the Feds finally came into Short Creek (the FLDS cities of Colorado City, AZ and Hilldale Utah) and routedout the church’s (cult’s) takeover of those towns. Why can’t thst happen in Clearwater, too?
Scammed by Scientology says
Chad Williams – thank you for your post and your concern.
What is Scientology clearing?
Scientology is clearing bank accounts, IRA Accounts, Stock portfolio’s, Savings accounts, Retirement Accounts, checking accounts, Inheritance and equity on home mortgage – of anyone who is unfortunate enough to enter it’s evil doors.
Scientology uses bait and switch. They find out what is ruining your life and then promise the $olution.
Scientology LIES to people about how Scientollogy will help you achieve your goals. All they do is brainwash members into believing Scientology works for them.
I went into Scientology after my father died. I was in grief and not handling it will. I also had family members suffering from mental health issues. I was told by Scientology Staff members that “Scientology could help”. I was at a loss of places to go so I gave it a shot. I did what they recommended – “don’t listen to the critics – try Scientology for yourself.” said the stat driven staff member.
I gave it a go and wasted over $250,000 on the Bridge to no where as well as years of my precious life. I went clear – where I realized I was mocking up – making up – my reactive mind – but could stop being reactive and control my reactions. Then I went OT – Operating Thetan – where I became cause over nothing except feeling the effect of crush-regging registrars who wanted me to borrow huge sums of money and get into deep debt.
Scientology is nothing but a horrible scam.
Please – spread the word to everyone you know.
Thank you for tuning into Mike’s Blog and posting your support.
Including PREVENTING the young nubile teen girls from LEAVING because they are consider PROPERTY….they ARE to be wed to “loyal FLDS MEN” in their mid to late 30’s, 40’s, 50’s, 60’s.
The young sons of these women are forcibly driven OFF because they are husband competition for the young girls who are promised to the “old men faithful”.
When I worked for Social Services, a friend put me in contact with a young girl she was “hiding”…the girl was 18 & wanted OUT…but THEN came the TRUE realization she would NEVER see her mother or siblings again. She didn’t care about her multi times “married father”, but grieved the loss of her siblings & mother, so she RETURNED without saying a word to us. We were very distraught, as we had her registered for GED, a part time job etc…..too sad.
Good grief, what a terrible tragedy for that young girl, Balletlady! Incredible that this is happening in America, in this day and age! And that its LEGAL!
Great idea! ☺️
I hadn’t thought about a grand jury – but I did wonder about a class action law suit with all the people who have money sitting in limbo for courses they never took!
“. . . a class action law suit with all the people who have money sitting in limbo for courses they never took!”
Having thought about this, I believe there’s little likelihood of success. Let me lay out my thoughts – feel free to show me where I’ve missed the mark.
My understanding of the agreement the IRS came to with $ci.. was that ALL monies a person gave/paid to $ci.. (whether for services or a donation) were considered to be a tax deductible donation.
In normal life when I pay for goods or services and they aren’t delivered I have recourse, because a contract hasn’t been fulfilled. But let’s say I pay $ci.. thousands of dollars for a course and then deduct it on my tax return – on the face of it, I’ve called it a donation. So how do I then turn around and claim I was defrauded?
Because the IRS has classified all monies paid for courses as donations this seemingly moves the transaction out of the “contract” area and give $ci.. the power to decide whether to return my “donation” or not.
I wish I was wrong about this, but I can see $ci.. lawyers making a lot of money defending against such a class action suit. Now if the IRS were to revisit their ruling and differentiate between “fees for courses” and “donations”, then it’s a different ball game going forward.
You are correct Phillip. The same applies to donations to the Catholic or other churches.
What a great idea! I hope that happens. All we want is the truth.
My goodness . . . Talk about ‘taking off the gloves’! This sounds Too Good to be true (but, it Is true – I checked). By The Gods, Mike, they ($) are going to have their whole team of SA’s (Scumbag Attorney) on call/notice to accept any/all calls from subpoenaed SO members! Talk about getting them ‘swatting flies’! And, in reference to the Rabid Runt, I’ve asked this before: is Anybody watching JT’s and TC’s airplane hangars? Well, They Should be! I LOVE IT ! ! !
Rebecca Lee says
So how do we help get this ball rolling?
I’m sure that more than one loyal $cientology staffer has done jail time for refusing to talk to a grand jury.
Mary Kahn says
…and they all know how to lie without being coached once they get into “scientology is the greatest good” mindset. But I think the beauty of a Grand Jury is that with an onslaught of the right questions a Grand Jury can glean the way an organization runs and I do believe that there would be plenty of scientologists in good standing that actually would tell the truth. Maybe not.
When Marc said that piece about “being coached on how to answer questions”…Wow….now that for sure IS A CULT tactic. Give the “right answer” to ANY possible question to satisfy the person asking the questions…to cover their asses. Seriously, in a court of law they’d have to plead the 5th..to prevent incriminating themselves.
I hope this happens, but I fear that even in the safety of sealed grand jury testimony, a Scientologist would still not trust that the proceedings will remain secret and that they won’t face retribution.
You are taught never to trust or aid the legal or law enforcement process in any way, unless it benefits Scientology. You are taught to tell “acceptable truths” anytime you must speak to someone outside the Scn coterie.
Witnesses who are brainwashed, who distrust the process, and who are highly trained liars are going to be much more difficult than the witnesses to the Roman church’s abuses, people who have largely moved on with their lives and are not in that church’s power any longer… people who were testifying against old men and were not facing any effective organizational opposition.
I really hope this works, Mike, I really do, I just have my doubts.
But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t fight night and day for it.
Johnny Awesome says
Interesting, after watching last night it looks like the main problem is finding a prosecutor with enough balls to make it happen. I was also curious about whether the double jeopardy law would come into play, with a grand jury it does not.
Johnny, you need a prosecutor who thinks that he has enough evidence to get a conviction before a 12 person jury.
A Grand Jury doesn’t convict anyone or mete out other punishments for wrongdoing other than refusing to testify.
Mike, great piece.
Reading things like “Grand Jury proceedings are held ex parte (without the right of the other side to be present) and in secret. The accused has no knowledge nor right to interfere with their proceedings.” it reminds me of what passes for Scientology “justice” – the difference being that a Grand Jury is only investigating, and cab only issue an indictment that would lead to an open trial, whereas Scientology’s kangaroo courts pass sentences and impose penalties. But you really have a point, that a Grand Jury investigation offers promise as a way to fight Scientology’s and its lawyers’ honed ability to manipulate the normal investigative and legal process.
It does strike me that this could really be the way to fight fire with fire, so to speak. You must have been a star pupil in your studies of the American system.
This would be awesome. HOWEVER, someone called CAN consult with council BEFORE being questioned. THAT is where they will be coached by the church’s lawyer to the nth degree to lie. Whoever the prosecutor is will have to be SUPER sharp.
” The person subpoenaed to testify then is compelled to answer questions unless he or she can claim a specific privilege, such as the marital privilege, lawyer/client privilege, or the privilege against self-incrimination.”
Which one would Dave choose? Tough guess since most everything he has done would fall under the latter. Better add a category ……………… unless he or she can claim to be the greatest ecclesiastical leader since fisherman learned how to cut bait. That would get Him off the proverbial hook!
Howz it hangin’ taday Dave?
Newcomer, since the speculation of bad acts mainly concerns DM a judge would grant him the 5th. That is how it works. However, it would be OTHER witnesses who would hand the GJ a reason to indict HIM.
Great thoughts Mike! It would be nice if California or Florida would do it at the state level or a federal one to encompass all of COS. Since COS was broken up into different entities by Miscaviage with the specific intent to defraud the government and it’s parishioners but all are clearly working jointly under the direction of DM, I’m wondering if a federal prosecitor from any state with an Org could bring the case. The DOJ would have to approve it but it seems to me if the case was brought in a place like Colorado they would be able to objectively investigate issues like the LA police seemingly covering up crimes. It would be an expensive process no matter where it was held but if the assets were seized that would end up covering the costs and still be able to refund people who were duped.
David Bates says
This is all i can say about Federal Grand Jury duty. 1986 received notice to serve. One week a month for half a year. We were required to even leave our notebooks on our seats during breaks. It was intense the way we were gathered, entered, were always watched, even at bathroom breaks. Not allowed to say anything during meals about any proceedings. On final day we were advised to never say what we did or procedures or cases, ever!! Still have never said anything. They even kept our notebooks each day, and still have them. Was very nervous at first and never changed during whole time.
If I may say…that is a grand idea Mike.
You and Leah are a relentless force to be reckoned with. There is probably lots of ‘ruing’ going on in the bubble as it continues to leak oxygen.
Mick Roberts says
I saw your tweet about this a few days ago. One question I had and meant to ask to see if anyone knew the answer is how can we, as citizens, request a grand jury investigation? Basically, who can we write to demand this? I assume it would the local/district prosecutors in different areas, but could it also go to the FBI (and/or their respective field offices, such as in LA and TB) who could then request it, or another agency? Searching for this only seems to turn up mostly how grand juries function in general, not how citizens can request it.
Bob Harris says
I think there needs to be a federal or state politician who is infuriated about their abuses and the bogus tax-exempt status, and also has a set. That is a rare combo. Perhaps a non-politician politician like Trump. Also very rare.
Ex Int Base Sea Org Slave says
Thank you Mike and Leah for your show. I am coming out of apathy about being able to do something about it.
Congratulations – you found the tool we are going to use to take the Scientology cult down and lock David Miscavige and his minions up for eternity.
Very Well Done.
Now – David Miscavige, we want you to imagine what that will be like as you sit on the stand and your victims testify of the beating and other abuses you inflicted on them while you lived your lavish lifestyle.
I will show up for that for sure. You better like wearing orange with flip flops. Your John Lobb shoes that Sea Org Slaves shined will be auctioned off to pay back the victims of your religious scam.
Tick Tock DM – Tick Tock