Another in the series where an interested “wog” communicates to a staff member of an “ideal” org, inquiring about a service they offer on the internet.
These conversations provide some fascinating insight into the bubble world of scientology….
My snarky comments are in red.
Subject: communication classes
Date: Fri, 19 Dec 2014 20:25:53 -0600
I got your e-mail from a friend who did this communication course and liked it. Can you tell me more?
On 12/20/2014 at 9:31 PM
This is a non-profit organization, and we have classes for life improvement, such as improving communication skills. Our communication classes are very hands on. You do a lot of one-on-one communication drills. We’ve found this approach gets immediate improvement and results. People transform the way they relate with others very fast this way.
The scheduling is flexible. You can pretty much pick your free time to do the classes because we have training and drilling all the time. The cost is about 20 hours of training for about $100.
Also, can you tell me why you are interested in the communication class?
Interesting that you can pick your free time to do the classes…. And deliberately no mention of scientology.
Subject: RE: communication classes
Date: Sun, 21 Dec 2014 00:17:59 -0600
Hi and thanks for the message. What is the name of the Non-Profit?
I am interested in the communication class because I am shy and have a hard time talking to women.
What is drilling? Like a marching band or something?
I don’t understand how a class if flexible. Don’t you have an instructor?
Can I talk to some of your students for referrals?
I don’t have a whole lot of time and want to check out further before I come to the class. How much is it?
Thanks again – Xxxx
On 12/21/2014 at 7:22 PM,
This is the Dianetics and Scientology Life Improvement Center located at (address removed)
Drilling means training, communication training.
We do have an instructor, but you pair up with other students in your training. Yes, you can talk to our students for referrals.
The cost is about $100 for 20 hours of classes/training.
Subject: RE: communication classes
Date: Mon, 22 Dec 2014 18:08:29 -0600
Hello – Yyyy, thanks for the info. How long have you been in Scientology?
Have you looked at Xenutv.net? Wow!! Scientology is a cult but you don’t know it. You are getting scammed!
Better study up on Hypnosis, Mind control tactics and Religious Cloaking.
Scientology is really evil and you guys have no clue because they keep everything hidden by forbidding people from telling each other what they see.
All the best – Merry Christmas, Blessings to you and your family!
On 12/22/2014 at 9:05 PM,
Merry Christmas to you, too.
I’ve been in Scientology for over 20 years. I am well aware of the many rumors on the Internet about it. In fact, I may have researched the rumors more than you have being in Scientology for 20 years, with a computer science degree. I also know how untrue those rumors are due to my personal experience in it. It’s a simple case of reading that “Scientology is X”, but I simply don’t see X in Scientology by personally looking for 20 years.
I love what Scientology has done for me in terms of helping me improving my relationships, self confidence, communication, getting rid of anxiety, improving motivation, etc, and I also love helping people improve these things with Scientology.
I know you do care about my well being, which is why you took the time to send me the email, and I thank you for that. The world needs more caring people like you. However, do not worry. Scientology is treating me well. There is a lot of love, respect, good conversations, good knowledge and tools for life improvement to be had in Scientology, and the rumors on the Internet fortunately are not true.
Thanks for your caring thought, though.
Frankly, I didnt expect them to answer. This is a real communication. Good job.
Subject: RE: communication classes
Date: Tue, 23 Dec 2014 17:55:19 -0600
Hi Yyyy and thank you for the response. You are a kind and caring person as well. It takes one to know one. 🙂
I am not here to put you on the defensive about Scientology – because if it helps you, that is all that matters. I apologize if you felt judged about your religion.
I am interested in trying it – but afraid of getting scammed.
I studied mind control, rhetorical writing, thought stopping tactics, cognitive dissonance and other tactics used covertly to change people’s beliefs and behaviors. It is very easy to manipulate human minds.
I also took classes re: Relgious Cloaking in America and why that is so dangerous. You may want to study up on it as well. Read Lawrence Brennan’s Affadavit. He does a good job of explaining it.
Hypnosis is a fascinating subject and I read what L Ron Hubbard said about it – he is leaving out information that you may want to know. This has been researched and scientifically proven. I could not find any research by L Ron Hubbard that was authenticated by other legitimate Scientists and researchers. Do some research on it. It is very easy to hypnotize people – advertisers do it everyday.
It is a billion dollar industry. Religious Cults use these tactics and people can end up giving up their career’s, shunning family and friends against their religion, giving so much money to the religion – they go broke and some lose their minds.
I was curious, however, what did you research on the internet that you read about Scientology that was not true? Like you really proved it to yourself – not just felt it was not true. I really want to talk to you about this. It may help me change my mind.
Have you seen Hy Levy’s video’s on You Tube? He was in Scientology for 30 plus years. He worked at Flag Base.
I don’t know how Scientology mixed money with religion but that frightens me – it is a slippery slope to mix money and religion and politics. Most human beings can’t handle the power they get from being involved in either one, Do you know what I mean?
I want to come in to take the class but need more information to make sure I am not getting convinced to give up my life, career, family etc. to help Scientology Organization. I just need some help for myself right now – I don’t want to save the world. Been there – done that!!
Thanks for your help – write back please.
On 12/26/2014 at 6:36 PM,
I totally understand your skepticism, and really there is nothing wrong with thinking critically.
There are simply too many rumors I have read on the Internet which are proven beyond doubt are not true. In fact, I think about 90% of them are false, in my experience. For example, it was said that Freewind (the Scientology cruise ship) was closed; but in fact, it was open and running. I’ve even boarded it myself to take a class. Another example, it was said that Scientology churches were shut down in Russia. In fact, huge Scientology expansion were made in Russia. Some of the my church’s staff members talked to the staff members there. Recently someone read on the Internet that Scientologists believe “thetans” were put in volcanoes, which was why are they are depressed. There are no such belief in Scientology, or anything similar.
I personally love those rumors about mind control, because every time someone says that to me, I ask them, exactly HOW do Scientology brainwash people? And in 20+ years, not a single person had been able to tell me. Of course they couldn’t, because try as I might, I cannot find any single thing in Scientology that brainwashes people. In fact, unless people are personally interested in learning about Scientology for self improvement, policy forbids us to sign them up for classes or auditing. This policy has been in place for 40+ years broadly in Scientology and is rigorously enforced, but I still hear rumors on the Internet insinuating we force ideas on people.
The money rumors are what I love the most. For instance, our basic classes are only $50, which provides about 10 hours of classes, and the fees also help paying the electricity bill, etc. If people want to donate to the funds for making Scientology stronger, they are totally welcome, but we don’t even have a tithe system, unlike some other religions.
If you are interested in taking a class but are skeptical, my advice is to simply read a book on the subject, such as Dianetics, or What Is Scientology. They are available in libraries for free. This way you can learn the information first before getting more involved.
Well, this guy seems to have missed the memo on the volcanoes. And its interesting how the “rumors” that are “disproven” are not rumors anyone has ever heard. But they are doing their best to try and deal with this….
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 11:31:59 -0600
I appreciate you helping me sort this out. I feel like I can talk to you so easily. Its weird – but I believe there are no accidents…we meet people that will serve our highest good for a reason – typically as part of our spiritual journey. I am glad to have met you and I feel like perhaps we will be helping each other. I have chills running up and down my spine – like my life is about to change. That has only happened to me a few times so I am a bit excited.
I really am interested in this stuff – I always have been interested in life improvement courses and good, humanitarian groups.
I would like to shed a little light on mind control tactics and then ask you about going clear, which I am very interested in doing.
I can help you with understanding mind control. There is a lot of information now available and I recommend you study it yourself because of the damage it can do to people – and you may get some of those people into your class. You will better equipped to help them if you understand what happened to them. Like – the Moonies – those guys get pretty fucked up. One of the keys to know if a leader or group is using mind control is “information control” – do they control what members can read and talk about it. If there is any type of control on communication – be aware that mind control tactics are being used.
I am not talking about a guy at work bitches about his boss / company and the boss finds out and talks to him about being negative and coming to him with complaints. The guy continues to bad mouth the company / boss – well, he may lose his job…that is normal human behavior.
I am talking about the leader telling members that the News lies all the time, you can’t believe what you read or hear on the internet – stuff like that. If members respect the leader and (if he is a narcissist (study up on Narcscissm), and believe he is their hero – the guy that knows more than anyone – they will believe it. Repeated enough times – they will find themselves not watching the news or looking at the internet – especially about their group.
If one were to research a company, product, service or group on the internet and the majority of information was negative about the leader or group – most people would believe that there was something wrong with the leader and group and stay away. If there were only a few stories that were negative – then most people would ignore that and try the product or service.
Feel free to share with me what you know – because I watched the Tom Cruises video and he said that Scientologists are the experts on the mind. I am fascnated on the mind as well and want to learn everything I can.
My research has been validated by experts in the field. I don’t have their names handy but can get them for you. They studied prisoners of war, abused women and chlidren, religious cults and groups etc and the effects it has on people.
Remember Patty Hearst? Why did she join the group and rob a bank? Mind control. Remember the Nazi’s – how did ONE man get hundreds of thousands of Germans to kill the Jews? Mind control.
Mind control typically can happen in religious cults and groups because what happens after we die is so arbriatrary – what happens to us after we die is unsolved. It is still a mystery. Various religous groups think they have the answer but if one were to actually try to prove it scientifically – it can’t be done. There is no scientific proof. NO proof of Jesus, Allah or even GOD.
There is proof, however, that we are spiritual beings and have souls that go ‘somewhere’ but no one knows for certain. Plenty has been researched and proven on that subject. Buddhism is the only religion that has effective tools to handle the mind and its relationship to the body and spirit. It has been around for 2,500 years and is quite effective. I quit smoking using meditation and hypnosis. It was free and worked beautifully. This is because of what I know about the mind.
Hypnosis is simply getting really relaxed and repeating something over and over until it gets into the subconscious mind. The key to hypnosis is – you have to agree with it or it won’t work. So – from what I read that L Ron Hubbard said about hypnosis – is not true. You don’t have to be in pain or unconscious to have hypnosis work … you just have to agree and keep repeating the words or phrase. Christians self hypnotize themselves into believing in Jesus – “Jesus Saves” “Get Baptized” “The only way to heaven is through Christ”. If someone were to agree with this and keep repeating it – it would become part of their belief system. They would make anyone who was not a Christian wrong and tell them they were going to hell…hence the “relgious zealot”. The hard core will die to be right about it too.
So – religious leader – typically a narcissist who is good at charming people – will use this “mystery” and convince people that he/she has all the answers and knows how to get to heaven, reach nirvana, etc.
It’s okay if the religious group helps people – but what can happen is that the leader will preach some truths about life that will resonate with what a person may be going through – divorce, death of a loved one, loss of job – some type of catasraphe and actually provide some relief. Other members will “Love Bomb” the new member – be very interested in them, be kind and act like they really care. The new member will feel like they have found that “family” they never had – found a new home.
Then – The lies start to be sprinkled in the truth. The key to mind control is to never argue about the lies, let the person see for themselves. But if they hang around the group a lot and the rest of the members believe it – it is only a matter of time where they will accept the lie as a truth too.
For example, Jim Jones told his followers that he had a special connection to God and God speaks to him. New members would be skeptical at first but eventually believe it.
One of the tricks is that when people are in a group to serve a higher purpose – they feel great. Their lives will start to change for the better because they feel support. They may lose weight, look brighter and happier etc. This is part of the Religious mind control tactic and all religious cults use it. The people think it is GOD, the Lord or their practice that is making that person look better. In fact, it is all in their minds – they are looking better because they are connecting to other people, feel they have found their life purpose and feel cared for. Maybe for the first time in their life.
I have more information for you but want to change the subject, if that is okay, to going Clear.
I did get that book Dianetics, at a used book store for a quarter – so not much to lose if I feel it is not for me. It is a hard read and very confusing but I sort of get it.
I am very interested in going Clear. Now that I have done some research on this level of awareness – the State of Clear – I am confused.
There is quite a lot written on the subject by L Ron Hubbard. Can you tell me what Clear is – what attributes does a person have and what are the scientific tests used to determine this state of Clear? What does it cost? Are you Clear?
I am enjoying this discussion. There are not many people who I know that I can talk to this about. So – thanks for your time.
On 12/27/2014 at 6:14 PM,
I appreciate your interest, Xxxx, and thanks for explaining about mind control.
I’m glad we can get down to the specifics.
First, there is absolutely no information control in Scientology. In fact, people are welcome to have their own religions. Funny you mentioned Buddhism, because I am a Buddhist myself. I was raised up in a Buddhist family, I was a Buddhist before I found Scientology, and I’m still a Buddhist, and I often tell people in and out of Scientology about my being a Buddhist. In my 20+ years in Scientology, not a single Scientologist had shown anything except acceptance for my being a Buddhist. Why? Because Scientology is founded on the basic principles of freedom of thought, freedom of belief, and freedom of religion. People don’t change their religions to get into Scientology.
I have fast Internet access. I watch Youtube videos often. I read magazine articles often, and as you can imagine, I tend to pay more attention to news about Scientology than other news, so I’ve heard plenty of negative stuff as well as positive stuff. In fact, I’ve talked to over 10,000 people about Scientology in my 20+ years, so, really, there is no information control. And, BECAUSE there is no information control, and complete respect of each member’s own beliefs, I simply find it funny when I see those articles which imply Scientology is restrictive in some way.
In fact, it’s the very OPPOSITE. Scientology is about freedom of thinking. Members are encouraged to become more educated, more aware of world affairs, and make more friends, even with non-Scientologists! Many Scientologists date or marry non-Scientologists! We are encouraged to think for ourselves, not to parrot the “leader”, except to emulate his virtues.
And I have never repeated words over and over again like, “I believe in Scientology”, “I believe in L. Ron Hubbard,” “Scientology is the solution”, or ANYTHING similar!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Unlike some other religions, or some political systems, I might add. In fact, Scientology itself is NOT based upon faith. It’s based upon knowledge. For example, Scientologists are expected to know how the mind works, and to be super-educated about human behaviors, so we can help people get over traumatic experiences and improve communication.
Because we DON’T, I repeat, we DON’T, do those repetition tricks, I think Scientology actually is UNIQUE in that it does not practice mind control, unlike many political systems or religions.
Regarding the state of Clear, I refer you to Dianetics, Book One, Chapter Two, for a complete description. Personally, I can tell you that it’s like being at your best. Ever felt really happy? It’s like that, except it’s your general state. It doesn’t mean you never get angry or upset, and it doesn’t mean you have a silly smile all the time, or become emotionless like Spock in Star Trek, but it means if you get angry or upset, you lift out of it very shortly. For example, I generally don’t feel bad about something more than 15 minutes, to give you a personal example.
IQ also increases as you go toward Clear. It showed in my IQ tests. I had about 20 to 30 points of IQ increase, based on different IQ test results. My memory, my interests, my energy level, my attention span, and my creativity (I’m a musician and an artist) also improved as I went toward Clear, to give you personal examples.
Now he is really getting into spouting party lines…. “I am a Buddhist and that’s perfectly OK” (wonder how he justifies it when he reads KSW#1?). And we learn how to think for ourselves which is why I spout the party line…
Subject: RE: communication classes
Date: Sat, 27 Dec 2014 23:02:48 -0600
That is great Xxxx – thanks for all of that information.
Regarding the State of Clear – are you Clear? What tests are used for the IQ? What company does the test and where else is the test administered?
I have some more questions about the State of Clear – but I will get back to you.
I am reading from various L Ron Hubbard sources and the definition of clear changes quite a lot. I am putting together the various definitions I have found and would like for you to take a look at them, if you don’t mind. Maybe you can “clear” things up. Pun intended…lol
What does it cost to go Clear? Average cost?
How many Scientologist’s are there in the World? How many at your center? What is the Ideal Org I read about? Super Powers – what is that?
Who is Lisa McPherson and what happened to her?
Where does the Church of Scientology post their financials? Non-Profits do post them and make them public for transparency. Where can I find them?
I will get back to you with my questions – but can you help me by getting back to me regarding the questions I asked, please?
On 12/29/2014 at 12:21 AM,
You have many questions, and it’s easier to answer your questions in person. You seem to believe in doing research, so I challenge you to truly research Scientology by arriving and check it out for yourself.
We’re located at xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx. You can’t miss it.
If you truly are curious about the truth of Scientology, then come by and see for yourself, others and myself will take the time to answer your questions and help you. If not, I’m sorry to say I’m too busy with my many projects to keep email you back and forth.
I expected this attempted blow off to come before now…
Subject: RE: communication classes
Date: Mon, 29 Dec 2014 10:39:12 -0600
Hi Yyyy –
Heh – thanks for the invite and I will take you up on coming in to talk to you when I get back to (City of Idle Morgue named but withheld).
Right now, I am in Los Angeles visiting family for a few weeks. While I am waiting to come back – I am researching the state of clear because I am very interested in doing this.
I found a few different quotes by L Ron Hubbard in his various writings and am confused. What exactly is a clear today?
Can you tell me what definition to use and the approximate / average cost to go Clear? Just a ball park figure, please.
Here are some of L Ron Hubbard’s policy’s on the state of clear
from Dianetics book:
“Dianetically, the optimum individual is called the clear. One will hear much of that word, both as a noun and a verb, in this volume, so it is well to spend time here at the outset setting forth exactly what can be called a clear, the goal of dianetic therapy.
A clear can be tested for any and all psychoses, neuroses, compulsions and repressions (all aberrations) and can be examined for any autogenic (self-generated) diseases referred to as psycho-somatic ills. These tests confirm the clear to be entirely without such ills or aberrations. Additional tests of his intelligence indicate it to be high above the current norm. Observation of his activity demonstrates that he pursues existence with vigor and satisfaction.” LRH
I found some publications at the Library called “Ability”. Here is what Hubbard said about Clears:
“A Scientology Clear would be able to confront the physical universe, other bodies, his own body, other minds, his own mind and other beings-without trimmings.” LRH (from ‘Ability 52’, [early Aug 57] “Confronting”).
Ability 67′, [mid Feb 58]: “Today’s clears are quite clear. The state is finite, precise and stable. We ought to be able to say so.”
In ‘Ability 71’, [Mar-Apr 58]
“SCIENTOLOGICALLY, the optimum individual is called the clear. One will hear much of that word, both as a noun and a verb, so it is well to spend time here at the outset setting forth exactly what can be called a clear, the goal of Scientology processing.”
“To flatten an incident Dianetically, you only erase it. To flatten it Scientologically you run it until pc has it back again fully and is total cause over it (you run it after it has erased).” LRH
(from HCOB 7 Apr 60 “A New Summary of Auditing”)
“The 1947 scale of wins was this: Get a pc to have pictures by any device. Get the pc to erase light locks. Get the pc to be more and more able to handle gradiently heavier bits of bank*. When pc was fully confident, pc was clear.” LRH
(from HCOB 7 Apr 60 “A New Summary of Auditing”)
I have just made a breakthrough in finding what a clear really is. … HCOB 7 Apr 60 “A New Summary of Auditing” that says: “To flatten an incident Dianetically, you only erase it. To flatten it Scientologically you run it until pc has it back again fully and is total cause over it (you run it after it has erased).” LRH.
1965: This year marked the occurrence of 2 very significant developments: Firstly with the release HCOB 2 Apr 65 “The Road to Clear” it was stabilized stating about the Clear as described in the book ‘Dianetics: The Modern Science of Mental Health’ that:
“This is a simulated clear. We called it a ‘keyed out clear’ quite properly. But it isn’t a clear I know now, it’s a RELEASE. The person has been released from his reactive mind*. He still has that reactive mind but he’s not in it. He is just released from it.” LRH
In the history of this universe there has never been a true Clear or true OT.
Every Clear ever encountered in this universe was a Keyed-out Clear-a Release. He still had all his bank, GPMs and engrams. They were simply keyed out and not influencing him.
We have known that for some time.” LRH
(from HCOB 18 Jun 65 “Clear and OT Behaviour”)
the 26th September 1965 Grade Chart noted:
“By Scientology AUDITING and individual can attain new states of Existence called RELEASE and CLEAR. … The quality of processing has been upgraded in 1965 as higher states have been found. Clear today is a higher state than previously. We once called ‘Clear’ what is today called RELEASE. Clear was higher than was first thought.”
“That we are today making a TOTAL Clear as well as Operating Thetans is completely out of comparison with what Dianetics was trying to do.
Yyyy – So if clear today was better than described in dianetics – what is a clear today?
Heh – thanks for your help – I do want to meet you soon – but want to understand what I would be coming in for. Hope that sounds reasonable to you and you will help me.
Happy New Year – Xxxx
On 12/29/2014 at 6:58 PM
It’s rather hard to explain Clear. It’s like trying to explain swimming, but I think you already have a good idea of it just by reading what you’ve sent me. Latter definitions take precedence over earlier definitions since later definitions are based on more research and practical experience, yet earlier definitions tend to be “workable” anyway.
The cost differs from individual to individual, depending on how you go about it. You can team up with a friend and help each other, then it would require only a few hundred dollars, say $100 for the Dianetics Seminar, and $250 for the Dianetics Co-audit Course. It takes some persistence, but every step along the way, you find yourself improving in life.
Again, it’s easier to answer your questions in person, if you are really interested. Just come by and talk to someone. I’m not always in the office, and I’m busy with my business, so I don’t promise to be the person who will be helping you when you are there, but there are many good people who will be happy to help you when you step in. There are a lot of informational videos you can browse in the lobby, too, and many people love them.
Good luck and may you find a lot of life improvement and happiness.
Sent Tuesday, December 30, 2014 at 12:01 AM
Yyyy – a couple of notes
If you were to say you were mocking up your own reactive mind but can stop it and control it – then you would be clear, That is what happens to a person who is clear, according to the clear cognition.
I don’t have any interest in this clear thing. I already know that I can control my reactions. Don’t most people?
I called the Los Angeles Church and a guy there told me it can cost up to $500,000 or more to go clear. Why didn’t you tell me – you made it sound like it was cheap – $250. I thought Scientologis’s were honest.
I don’t know if you realize this or not and I don’t want you to take this the wrong way – but you have not answered my questions and you keep telling me to come in. Why? This does not make any sense to me. You are selling services for a religion that costs a lot of money to do these services yet you cannot tell me what exactly it is I am buying and you also minimized the cost by a lot. Are you confused about the state of clear? That, my friend, is intentional. Part of the mind control. Think about it.
I am perplexed as to why you did not mention Scientology in your ads (you have a ton of them) – you stated “Non-Profit”. Are you ashamed of being in Scientology? It has such a bad reputation, I can understand.
Also – what is it about getting me to come in? Is that one of L Ron Hubbard’s policies? Get the guy to come in to sell him something? Some say you will find what is ruining my life and then sell me the solution. When it does not work – you will ask me to buy more and more and more until I am broke. That sucks!
There are loads of horror stories on the internet from people who were involved with Scientology and got ripped off. I think you are a nice guy but don’t know you are in a cult, You may want to look up your leader and see his lavish lifestyle he lives behind your back. while most Scientologists are giving their last dime for the “cause” – you leader is living the life of the rich and famous. No one knows. The higher ups make a lot of money so they keep it from the lower guys like you.
Scientologist’s never see financials because the leader is spending your money on suing people, harassing people (lawyers and private investigators) to keep the scam a secret from people like you.
Do write back and let me know what you found out about it.
Ruh-roh, this is getting a bit harder for him to ignore…
Tuesday, December 30, 2014 at 6:01 PM
Sorry was busy a little bit ago.
To answer more of your questions:
I am not confused about the state of clear. It’s simply too much time to explain over email what it is. I’m not trying to sell it to you.
I asked you to come in because you seem interested in finding out about Scientology. Same thing as learning about swimming or weight lifting, if you don’t try it, no amount of words will explain what it is. If you don’t want to come in, no problem. Recall I suggested you get a book for free from the library if you want to do more in depth investigation or study.
I have a friend whom I have known for 20 years, whose son is working closely with the top leader of Scientology. There is a lot of integrity there, contrary to the rumors on the Internet, which I’ve read, too.
I’ve learned from my experience that some people rather put other people down: It’s a bad movie, he is stupid, she is insane, etc. These are what such people like to talk about. It’s useless to explain to such people that the movie got awards, he is very educated, or she is actually very nice, etc. Some people don’t want to hear that. They’d rather put other people down. I hope you are not someone like that.
Getting people in and getting them broke sounds very evil. I don’t do that. People in Scientology don’t do that.
The wind seems to have gone out of his sails….
Date: Tue, 30 Dec 2014 19:48:30 -0600
Hi Yyyy – no problem and thanks for getting back to me. I appreciate your patience as I try to sort all of this out.
20 years ago there was no internet so you had no choice – many people had no way of checking out products or services. Today – we have the internet. People are going to read what is said about Scientology.
I was very interested in going clear and taking the communication course. I think it was a fair question to ask you how much going clear costs, how long on average does it take and what is it. It is different than swimming and the other thing you mentioned. I have not read any “warnings” about swimming. People don’t get bankrupted by high pressure sales techniques promising to free them spiritually by swimming. They also don’t go crazy, commit suicide, shatter their families, divorce over it, go bankrupt and broke over it. Many who have done Scientology feel betrayed and scammed. That is the truth – I did not make it up. They said someone like you would think the Psychs are saying this stuff – but it is ex members who feel ripped off.
The only thing I can think of as to why you don’t know about the people that have been hurt is that it is forbidden to talk about Scientology, its leader or founder negatively.
Did you sign a non-disparagement contract?
Are you clear?
Where are you on the Bridge?
Thanks – look forward to getting some answers if you are interested in helping me sort it out.
On 12/31/2014 at 3:50 AM,
I don’t have much time, so I’ll be brief. The people who wrote the stuff you read on the Internet have lied to you. They did that intentionally. I suggest you turn your power of research and the power of the Internet to investigate the people who wrote the rumors. You will find out very interesting information about them.
I know about the alleged people who have been hurt. Love those rumors. Not true. The Lisa McPherson thing? Total exaggeration. 20 years ago actually there was actually more rumors, but due to Scientology’s steady expansion and good works, the negative media have gone down a lot. Despite the rumors, 20 years ago I have decided that good people were misjudged. It’s easy to tell what rumors are lies once people get to know Scientologists, but if you don’t know any Scientologists, it’s very hard because you don’t have comparison.
Is it forbidden for Christians to talk negatively about God or Jesus or Christianity? Or for Buddhists to talk negatively about Buddha or Buddhism? I don’t recall such things being forbidden, nor are they needed in Scientology either. Never crossed my mind to talk negatively about Scientology or its leaders. My Scientology friends (myself included) are very connected and they are very strong willed and, get this, they LOVE Scientology, and RESPECT its leaders.
I did not sign a non-disparagement contract.
Where I’m on the Bridge is a bit personal, I don’t want to discuss it with you unless I know you better. I hope you don’t mind this honesty.
I can answer more of your questions, but I really don’t want to answer your questions any more. It’s like trying to prove innocence while presumed guilty. I really don’t have the time to keep doing this, especially because I think you’ll just at the end say, sorry, I still think you guys suck because some people on the Internet told me so.
If you want to, you can ask me one last question, and that’s all the questions I’ll answer. Hope you don’t mind. So, make your last question good.
So, the word inside the bubble is that everything is great because there are less rumors and negative media about scientology now than 20 years ago due to “steady expansion and good works.” Now he is really sounding like a KoolAid drinker. Less bad news? Seriously?
Thursday, January 1, 2015 at 8:19 AM
Hi Yyyy – Happy New Year and may this year bring you peace, love, prosperity and good health!! For you and your loved ones as well.
Thank you so much for getting back to me with your thoughts. They matter to me so I appreciate you sharing them with me. I do want to take a course on communication but don’t want to get involved in something I will regret. So many people have.
The only thing I will comment on about your response towards what hundreds of thousands of ex members have reported on the internet about Scientology is that you were not there so how would you know about those people? (that is not my last question – so please read my whole message so I can ask it). Are they all lying? (still not my last question – LOL). Seriously – think about that.
Those that write about the Church of Scientology felt the same way you did – they loved it and dedicated their lives to it.
They were harmed by the Church and saddened that upper management violates policy every day but keeps it a secret from the underlings like you.
There is the LRH policy’s of “no entheta, no case on post, take it up in auditing” and this keeps people from knowing what has happened and is happening in the Church.
The staff sign contracts – those that leave the Sea Organization see the most abuse. They are not allowed to leave unless they sign a lawyered up contract stating they will be fined heavily if they post on the internet about the Church. See Debbie Cook’s deposition. The Church ( lawyer ) actually posted the video of her signing the contract. She had no legal representation either – so she either signed it or she could not leave. (to remain in good standing).
I read the contract staff members sign. The fine is heavy so I understand why you can’t talk about anything negative. Makes total sense.
I think you said you are a Buddhist – in an earlier message. Me too.
I do like Buddhism because it gives one tools to deal with life and living. It is exercise for the mind and I believe Buddhism knows more than any other field about the mind.
I practice meditation daily and it gets me out of the constant thinking my mind wants to do (and is suppose to). I also follow a moral code that is personal but most Buddhists follow it. It is free for the most part – no one selling spritual freedom and if they are – true Buddhist’s consider that a cult and treat it accordingly.
I think you call them “wins” in Scientology but we call them “realizations” in Buddhism.
The wins I have had that were most profound is that I am a spiritual being. I have a body. I use my mind to operate my body. I can control my thoughts and feelings so I don’t do harm to myself and others. I have a large viewpoint on which I operate. From my practice, I certainly know who I am not and am willing to find out who I am. I have found out that I am a caring, loving, giving and compassionate human being that truly cares about others.
I am interested in living a good, moral and clean life.
I love to help others and know what is effective help and what is not. I don’t enable people but I do empower them.
I have a very prosperous life and attract good people, abundance and love.
Can I get back to you with my last question?
I want to do some Scientology classes to see if it would help me with my communication.
Would you do something for me in the meantime?
Would you read about Rhetorical Writing, Hypnotism, Religious Cloaking? I am curious if you see any of this in Scientology.
Thanks and Happy New Year!!
On 1/1/2015 at 4:00 PM
Hundreds of thousands of ex-members is a mathematical illogic, even less if they are supposed to have reported on the Internet. If that’s what you read on the Internet, then OBVIOUSLY it’s a falsehood. Comprende?
On 1/1/2015 at 4:06 PM,
hundreds of thousands is about 100 to 1000 times illogical.
I know because I’m intimately connected with Church members for the last 20 years.
He is now becoming non-sequitur
Subject: RE: communication classes
Date: Thu, 1 Jan 2015 20:05:50 -0600
I have no reason to make this up. I would like to do some classes. I have some legitmate concerns.
It would literally take me years to read all of the stories. Are they all lying?
Have you read the personal stories by these ex members and ex staff members?
My last question for you is to watch the deposition of Debbie Cook on You Tube.
Tell me if you really think she is lying? Be honest now! Please – it is important that you watch her.
Also – if you would google these names and read their stories and books? Are they all lying too? Some of them worked next to the leader David Miscavige – who is living a lavish lifestyle behind your back with your money you don’t get paid because he deemed you a volunteer – according to ex members.
He is using the tech to keep secrets from you guys. This is according to the members who were in for many years.
Please read the stories and tell me if you knew the people and were there witnessing it with your own eyes or were you told they were all lying? Please get back to me.
Debra and Greg Barnes
Karen De La Carrier
Maria Pia Gardini
Marc and Claire Headley
Thanks for your input.
Thursday, January 1, 2015 at 9:14 PM
I know you have no reason to make this up. I’m sure there are some minor percentages of people who were kicked out of Scientology, and no question they were bitter about it. Good riddance if you ask me. On the other hand, I know so many people in Scientology and the percentage is of ex-Scientologists is very, very small, like maybe 2.5%. The number of hundreds of thousands of ex-Scientologists are totally funny. It would be not only to me but to every single Scientologist who actually bothered to hang around Church of Scientology for a few months, to know that the figure is funny. For example, I introduce Scientology to new people for about 19 years now. Don’t you think I know what happened to the Scientologists who are taking courses in my office? I’ve also held the post the receptionist for a while. Don’t you think I can count how many people come and go? We have a lot of meeting and group activities. Don’t you think I can count heads and hear people talk about each other?
Would you, if you are me? I may not be the smartest person in the world, but my IQ test scores are actually pretty high, even BEFORE I joined Scientology. I have computer science degree from UC Davis. Don’t think you I can do math? Don’t you think I can add the number of people up in the number Churches and have a good idea of percentages? And don’t you think one of the first things a computer scientist who is a Scientologist would be looking up information on the Internet about Scientology? Wouldn’t you? And if we were forbidden to do so (which I imagine you think we are), wouldn’t we even want to do that MORE? Considering I’ve associated with non-Scientologists all the time?
I’m certain somebody made it SOUND like there are hundreds of thousands of ex-Scientologists out there, posting on the Internet. They obviously know that they can’t fool anyone who has been around Scientology for a few months, but they figured that someone who has NOT been around Scientology will be totally taken in by their fake statistics and fake testimonies. After all, they don’t know ANYTHING about Scientology except what they have seen on the Internet.
I’m sorry to say that you seem to have been VERY interested in negative information about Scientology, and you are NOT interested in positive information about Scientology AT ALL. That does not make you an open minded observer, as such I don’t see any reason to continue our conversation. I don’t for a minute think you actually are interested in our classes. You are more interested in proving Scientology wrong, and you have and will continue to ignore any positive information you encounter about Scientology, which is what you have been doing with my emails.
If you email me in the future, I’ll not reply. Good luck.
Well, I guess that last one did it. And all he has is the standard bubble response: “there are a small handful who are bitter, we ‘kicked them out’ — good riddance.” Now he is just horribly defensive. And no doubt realizes he has nowhere left to go. The train left the station and he is standing on the platform talking to himself…
Saturday, January 3, 2015 at 8:14 AM
RE: communication classes – please, accept my apology! Xxxx – I apologize if I have upset you. I totally understand how you may feel like I am only looking at the negative reports from countless ex members on the internet who have written books and blogs.
What is happening is that I am interested in doing a course – I really am.
I am afraid – afraid of getting trapped in Scientology. So many horror stories of those that did it.
It is true – Scientology can help people – all of these reports said so. What is scary to me – is that it takes that help and then expects the person to dedicate their entire life to Scientology – working for nothing and giving up a lot of money, which is not accounted for transparently to the members.
The reports said you would react this way – “take your marbles and go away”.
I suggest it is you who has to be right about Scientology so you make everyone who asks you about anything negative – wrong.
If you know what happens to all of the people – why are you the fastest shrinking religion on the World. No one is coming in and if you get one straggler in – they soon leave.
I still want to take a class but if you can’t communicate with me – I can see that Scientology does not work and you are only fooling yourself.
Did you watch Debbie Cook’s deposition?
I thought Scientologist’s can confront and shatter suppression?
What happened to your confront?
I only want the truth Dianetist – so please watch the deposition and let me know your thoughts.
Fondly – Xxxx