This week we welcome our dear friend Amy Scobee to talk about scientology and celebrities. Amy was in charge of scientology Celebrity Centres for many years. She has a lot of personal experience about how scientology treats its biggest celebrities. She was also the catalyst for The Aftermath when she reached out with the story of her mother, Bonnie. They were featured in the first episode. There’s a lot of ground to cover…
Note: Some have asked what OG means — OG is a slang term for someone who’s incredibly exceptional, authentic, or “old-school,” someone or something that is an original or originator and especially one that is highly respected or regarded.
The first episode of The Aftermath, featuring Amy:
Some bonus photos of Amy when she was in charge of the Celebrity Centres of scientology:
with the infamous Tommy Davis:
With Isaac Hayes, Dave Pettit (CO CC Int), Dave’s ex-wife, Billy Sheehan and Karen Hollander (President CC Int)
Hubbard policy on celebrities:
Training Routines — for anyone unfamiliar, note the instructions for TR 0 and TR 0 BULLBAIT:
The Purification Rundown:
This is the entry from Wikipedia
This is a blog post I did about Niacin ingested as part of the Purification Rundown
Amy’s website this is her business, and she does an incredible job evidenced by the testimonials from the families she has helped:
Speaking about the story of the leaked video of men having sex and if it would hurt scientology. There have been rumours of John Travolta and Tom Cruise being gay for years.
What would happen if that was true? I heard through a reliable friend that Tom is actually gay. My friend worked in advertising and got to meet Tom and one of his inner circle friends had too much to drink and started telling stories about Tom. I don’t know how reliable that is and who really cares, but what would happen if that came out as truth about Tom?
Mike Rinder says
The problem for scientology is that Hubbard says that being gay is low-toned (1.1) and that scientology auditing raises a person on the Tone Scale. Both Travolta and Cruise have had about as much auditing as a person can get. If they are still chronically 1.1, then the two poster children for scientology success suddenly become proof of its failure.
There is plenty of evidence that JT has had relationships with men.
None with respect to Cruise. His problems have always been with women.
I think it’s likely Travolta is actually bisexual. But scientology is so stuck in the 50s, and in some ways the Victorian era Nebraska of Hubbard’s formative years, that they have no way to account for anything that’s not conventionally black and white – even though, if you think about it, thetans aren’t gendered to begin with.
I heard of Scientology from following Tom Cruise. I am a huge fan since from his Risky Business movie days, and then especially when Top Gun came out, and succeeding ones.
As with most of Filipinos, I was raised -and still am- a Catholic.
When I heard of Tom’s “religion”, it saddened me then that there was no Scientology in the Philippines. Because then, I was thinking, if I joined that religion, there might be a very slim chance – but still a chance! – that I will meet him in person. Typical mindset of a fan.
Fast forward to 2017, I saw your Aftermath show on cable TV, and it piqued my interest because for me, Scientology=Tom Cruise! I thought, ‘finally, here is a show that would explain Scientology to me.’ Not knowing that oh, wow… how it explained it!
I was hooked. Every episode of the Aftermath was an eye opener for me, and the thinking, “how could someone get and stay in there?”, but finally, saying a prayer of thanks – “I thank God that there was no Scientology when I thought I needed it!”
Now, I listen to your podcasts with interest, like listening to made-up novels… but realizing that they have happened, and maybe are still happening… and getting down on my knees to pray for all those who are affected by the establishment of this organization.
This was a very interesting episode regarding celebrities. I was wondering if you would do a podcast looking into the history of the Beverly Hills Playhouse and how people saw it as a recruiting ground for Scientology, attracting talent including Anne Archer and Jenna Elfman who were apparently first introduced to Scientology through the theatre.
Off Topic. sorry.
But I’m in a mild state of shock.
Its late but I have to blurt this out.
I just googled one of my old auditors.
I was curious about her.
No desire for contact or talk on my part; just curious so I googled her name.
Saw that she has a twitter account.
I went on…she’s Q.
There’s no doubt.
Full, frontal Q.
My former auditor.
Former course supervisor.
30 year staff member.
And she’s Q.
Yes, something of a state of shock.
Again, sorry for the interruption.
Had to communicate it.
Thanks, better now.
Carry on, please.
What is ‘Q’ ?
QAnon. A Far-Right conspiracy theory and movement group composed of anonymous individuals. Google = your friend.
I did some word clearing on Wikipedia-
Bull-baiting is a blood sport involving pitting a bull against another animal, usually a dog.
…a bull was tied to an iron stake so that it could move within a radius of about 30 feet. The object of the sport was for the dogs to immobilize the bull.
Before the event started, the bull’s nose was blown full of pepper to enrage it before the baiting. The bull was often placed in a hole in the ground. A variant of bull-baiting was “pinning the bull”, where specially-trained dogs would set upon the bull one at a time, a successful attack resulting in the dog fastening his teeth strongly in the bull’s snout.
Karen Sharkey says
Hi Mike. This was yet another great episode with your guest, Class Act OG Amy Scobee. I can tell that you and Leah have a genuine fondness for her. She’s easy to like.
This may seem like a random question, but the more I read of Hubbard’ s writings and teachings, the more I wonder how anyone with ADD could ever get through any of these lessons. I would think it would become evident to an auditor or instructor if a student was showing signs of Attention Deficit Disorder.
I almost think that all the repetition might help someone with ADD? Did you have any experience with identifying learning disabilities within the adult scientology community?
Doesnt Tom Cruise say Hubbard’s technology helped him with dyslexia?
First off, I’d like to point out that I am not and never have been a Scientologist. Also, and this will be important, I am autistic. It may seem as though I am veering away from the subject of Scientology wildly by noting this, but as an out and proud autistic 28year old, I promise, it will matter.
In the world of “combating autism” there is a therapy called “Applied Behavior Analysis” which, at its heart, is meant to make the life of an autistic individual better. It attempts this by making an individual, usually a small child, appear not-autistic, and thus easily accepted and adaptable by society.
In short, it does this by using a system of punishment and reward to numb an autistic person to stressful stimuli until they no longer react to it.
So, if a child can’t go into a Walmart because they can hear the lights hum and its unbearable, an ABA therapist will work for hours on end to force the child into a state of being where they do not react to the lights. (You can look up the ways in which the therapist achieves this but anti ABA therapy activists like myself would describe it as dog training because the tactics really aren’t that different).
Now, in the autism activism circles I run in, ABA is considered torture (and is a reason why you should, please, never ever donate to Autism Speaks).
What does this have to do with Scientology? Well, TRs sound to me like ABA therapy. And, from how TRs were talked about last week, it sounds to me like TRs have the same effect: making people unable or unwilling to act for their own best interest, and accept misery because that is what is easiest, and is best for everyone around.
Now, saying all this, I realize that the issue of ABA therapy is multi-faceted and there may be people who read this who do support ABA therapy and disagree with me. If you do disagree, I won’t argue with you. That’s your right.
Changing subjects, I wonder if Scientology’s focus on celebrities will be one of its downfalls, if it isn’t already.
If you have an abusive organization that profits from near-slave labor, demands 100% loyalty and 100% commitment, aren’t you hurting yourself by drawing attention to yourself?
Wouldn’t it be easier to make people look away for your wrongdoings by NOT having people holding signs that say, “Hey, look at me!?”
I wonder this because if Tom Cruise had never jumped on Oprah’s couch, the average American, Brit, Kiwi, Australian, etc. probably would have never heard about the Church.
As usual, the podcast was the highlight of my day and I loved your conversation with Amy.
-Mechelle from St. Louis (Go Blues!)
Interesting comment and it gave me an additional understanding of autism. Thanks.
Jens TINGLEFF says
Terrible things have been done to autists (and some are still being done). I would not at all disagree with your lumping TRs together with a treatment that is considered torture.
TRs are considered as an early step onto the slippery slope of being controlled. The end of that slope is full blown undue influence, where families are torn apart and all the money that the victim has, can borrow, beg or steal, is handed over to off-shore funds under the control of the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology.
Oh, and yes, focusing on celebrities is very much a double edged sword…
Yes Mechelle. Having been trained in the Hubbard “TRs” and being ABA certified in CA I can attest they are both of the same family of thought and behavioral conditioning that is at odds with normal human social behavior.
Mary Kahn says
Great interview! I really enjoyed this interview.
Also Love the way it ended with Amy talking of the work she does writing eulogies. She showed what an enormous heart she has.
Amy Scobee says
Thanks, Mary – You have an ENORMOUS heart yourself. xoxo
Overrun in California says
For those who want to listen to this on You Tube.
Is there any way people who are scientologist get their file or a copy of it? Seems like they should be able to since it’s private information. I get they will keep a copy of it? But legally can they get a copy?
No, because the files are the property of the CoS. Everybody has to sign agreements/contracts before getting Scientology services.
See the policy “ENROLLMENT FORM LINES IN YOUR ORG, 3. Agreement Regarding Confidential Religious Files”.
And more contracts to sign:
( https://scientologymoneyproject.com/?s=contracts )
Never, Brandy. Strictly forbidden for any Scientologist to be given permission to see anything in his or her own Pre Clear (auditing and/or trainging) folder or Ethics folder.
Incorrect about the ethics folder Aqua. There is policy that allows one to inspect everything in the ethics file.
Thanks for the correction! I didn’t know. If I had known when I was in I would have asked to see it.
maria mccartan says
I will never forget Bonnies story, broke my heart and ignited in me a need for more info about this mad cult. Amy’s great to listen to, she tells her story so well. I look forward to this episode 🙂
Amy Scobee says
Bless your heart and I’m so glad that our story could be of some help in shedding light on scientology’s destructive practices. Amy
Maria Mccartan says
All the way to ireland too 🇮🇪❤️. I just don’t understand how this hasn’t been stopped and DM isn’t in jail for crimes against humanity, its sickening! Keep up the good fight and hopefully one day soon we will all bare witness to the demise of this disgusting cult and its dictator once and for all x
Maria Mccartan says
Also, your book is on its way thanks to the gods of prime 🙂 very excited for my next read. Good luck to you in all you do and I’m sure your mum would be so proud of you x
Amy Scobee says
Awesome and thank you!
The thing that annoys me the most about Scamology is that the people they pull in and then seek to destroy are, almost without exception, good people. People who joined and were interested because they wanted to truly “make a difference”. To help others as well as themselves. This organization preys on the best among us.
Hi Mike and posters! I’d like to know how to search the site for articles written on certain subjects etc. How do I do that? I couldn’t find a “search” button?
maria mccartan says
Cindy, on the bottom left you will find a some search tool “search this website”. hope this helps x
Thanks for the info!
Loosing my Religion says
Cindy you find it here at the bottom, at the end.
Milton Paca says
Hey Mike, when I comment on your podcast would you see my comment, because I wrote a comment but I wasn’t sure if you have read it. I’m looking forward to your reply.
Amy Scobee’s book “Scientology, Abuse At The Top” was one of the first books written by an ex I’ve read.
She was also one of the exes who spoke out at the “Tampa Bay Times” in “The Truth Rundown” series, reporting about David Miscavige’s violence.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YcUnsXs5tw – Ex-Scientologist Amy Scobee speaking out about leader David Miscavige’s psychotic behavior
maria mccartan says
this is the next book on my list once i finish the unbreakable miss lovely by tony ortega – great book also
Amy Scobee says
Thank you for including that link. Hadn’t seen that video in quite some time! I remember that I had no idea what questions they were going to ask me. I just wanted people to know what really went on behind the scenes at the highest level of scientology. I hope today’s podcast was also informative.
The info (knowledge reports) about David Miscavige’s violence and psychotic behavior and what was really going on behind the scene at Int, was very important (also for the corroboration what the other ex Int staff were reporting). You did well! You and Mat are very much appreciated! Thank you for everything! It made a difference.
Many Scn staff and public have left around that time when you and others were speaking out.
I was on the Fwds (13 years staff) and left in 1999 (finally, after I was ‘routing-out’/being detained for over a year). After that I was just decompressing and was then only searching on the Internet years later when another ex showed me “Musical Chairs Int Base Style”.
Amy Scobee says
Amazing what you had to endure! Wow, so happy that you are FREE!!
O/T. Lucerne: Scientology is said to have disregarded the protection of minors at Scientology’s recruiting stand.
Google translation follows.
Scientology is said to have disregarded the protection of minors at the stand
According to an organization critical of Scientology, a Scientologist carried out a “stress test” with two girls (15). This crossed a limit, says the Federal Office of Justice.
From Tino Limacher
* * * * * BEGIN EXCERPT * * * * *
That’s what it’s about
A Scientologist approached two 15-year-old girls and carried out a “stress test” with them.
According to the Free Anti-SC Activists (FASA), the Scientologist then told the girls that they were stressed and had problems.
Both the sect expert Georg Schmid and Marc Schinzel from the Federal Office of Justice find it questionable what the Scientologist did. Because young people under the age of 16 are religiously minors.
Therefore, one would always have to ask parents’ permission first when discussing worldview issues with their children, especially when testing.
* * * * * END EXCERPT * * * * *
Archived with two photos on ESMBR and WWP at:
Jens TINGLEFF says
Part of me wants to be happy that the Swiss activities of the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology are up to no worse than trying to convince minors that their lives are ruined. Part of me wonders if the proper authorities in Switzerland are looking at all aspects of the labour practices of the Co$…
I am looking forward to this podcast.
The TRs HCO Bulletin really labors the point about their importance:
“IF the TRs are not well learned early in Scientology training courses,” the student won’t sit still like a zombie while we find and exploit their ruins for ever and ever. Good TRs make good RonBots.
Respectfully, I disagree. I liked the TRs and drilled them a lot and got very good at them. I benefited from them, there is no question that I benefited from them in every way. I continue to benefit from them every day of my life and I’m no robot, no RonBot. The TRS are just communication skills – getting one’s communications across and understood, and receiving, understanding and acknowledging and responding to other’s communications.
It all depends upon your purpose. If your purpose is to understand and possibly help and make situations all around better, to increase understanding between yourself and others, the TRs are marvelous for that.
On the other hand, if your purpose is to punish and harm and make wrong, the TRs are lethal, cruel weapons.
I suspect that people who loathe the TRs had TRs used AGAINST them, to manipulate them, deceive them, punish them, make them feel guilty, etc. Horrible. They CAN be used that way, if that’s someone’s purpose.
They are just tools, after all. Communication tools. Tools can be mis-used. Just like a hammer can be used to build a bookcase, or bash in someone’s skull.
Ok, end of rant and if you want to pile on I’m ready, and whatever you might say I’ll do my best to see things from your viewpoint, which of course is based upon your own experiences however they may differ from mine, yet unique to you and as valid as mine and/or anyone else’s.
I agree. Outside of potential abuse in scn it’s a more specific breakdown of spoken communication than just talking and listening. For example, is the person ready to receive the communication, was it clearly spoken and did the person receive it? If the person replies were they acknowledged and did they receive the acknowledgement? And so on. It’s not something that you continually think about but just becomes a normal way of speaking.
A liability of having done the TRs for years is that it drives me nuts when watching TV interviews and the interviewer continually interrupts and doesn’t let the person finish a sentence. Ugh
On the other hand some people are naturals at communicating. I have a good friend who listens attentively and responds clearly and it’s never a problem talking with him even on topics on which we disagree. Hallelujah
Beautiful, Richard. Great comment.
And yes, it drives me insane when interviewers interrupt. I literally cringe! Also when the interviewER asks a question and the interviewEE doesn’t answer the question, but yet the interviewer accepts that response. I’m tearing my hair out saying, “But he/she didn’t answer the QUESTION!!!”
And indeed there are some people who are natural listeners – natural, inborn, unlearned TRS! Such people are WONDERFUL to have around. You have your friend. I’m so glad. I had, albeit for a short time, my mother. She was a natural listener, and when she talked, she was honest and kind and forthright and down to earth in a ladylike way. She always told the truth but with no malice, she cared, she clocked peoples’ feelings.
She had this gift…you could be telling her something important or it could be something not at all important and yet she was always there with you, and you’d get the feeling that there was nothing that interested her more than listening to whatever it was that you were saying right then! Yet there was nothing studied or forced about it about this quality of hers. She didn’t “hang on your words”, no. She was simply interested, and you knew it. A gift she had. A wonderful gift. Everyone who around her benefited from it – particularly me, as I was her daughter.
OMG, typos, sorry. Always these typos when I get emotional 🙂
Just as an addition here are two communication tips I came across from non scn sources. At times you might say, “Let me see if I understand. You’re saying that . . . ” and repeat back to the person what they said. This lets the person know you’re paying attention and can clear up misunderstandings.
The other one is to mostly eliminate the word “actually” from conversation and also writing. If you say, “I think that . . . ” the other person can respond with their own thought. If you say, “I actually think that . . . ” it somewhat puts the person into a position of contradicting you if they have a different point of view.
I appreciate parts of the TRs can be used as tools of communication, and I have seen it help, but the scientology practice is to run the routines for far longer than healthy. Staring without blinking is bad for the eyes and can make the other person feel very uncomfortable, which isn’t conducive to good communication.
How long should you sit and take a bullbaiting session? A normal person would answer back or leave rather than enter a dissociative state waiting for it to end.
Grisian, I agree with you. “Blinkless” TRO would be very harmful. I was never made to do it. I dimly recall reading something about Blinkless having been used for a time and then shelved. I got into Scientology in the mid 80s and never did Blinkless and I never saw anyone else being trained that way either. “Being there comfortably and confronting” did not mean not blinking when I was in which was from the mid-80s until about 2011. Must have been hideous to do TRO that way. I’m sorry.
@Aquamarine – Same. I was never a staff, never in the Sea Org. As a public only, I considered I gained a lot by drilling TRs (training routines) and including “bull bait” drilling. The “flattening” of buttons helps me in work and personal life situations when a person is getting angry or other means of “pushing buttons.” When I maintain composure in the face of such, it allows me to navigate what is being thrown at me with sanity. This, instead of conceding to (or feeling inclined toward) “flipping out” myself.
I think there are some outside Scientology researchers who have found, like so many things, Ron Hubbard did not necessarily “invent” TR0, for instance. It may be based on a centuries old meditation practice. If in that sphere, then it is fundamentally intended to bring the person into a “mindfulness” space with increased ability to experience the present. This, versus having their mind (thoughts) scattered all over the place.
Aquamarine, I think you quite hit the nail on the head with your hammer analogy. I agree. If you have a tool, in itself, it is just a tool. Depending on the user and his or her intent, that tool can be used for benefit or for destruction.
Comedically, we see the Friday satirist who delivers “Regraded Being” weaving in a wacky use of TR2 (Acknowledgements) where the person cuts the other person off so mercilessly — in other words, using Scientology-drilled acknowledgements to simply shut someone up and pay zero attention to what they are saying. It’s satirical and funny, because I certainly have seen that (when I was in the group) and, yes, that is robotic and that seems like a misuse of communication study or drilling, even bordering on abusive because it is so NULLIFYING.
Thanks for your response and acknowledgement, Peridot. Yes, I too have observed as well as experienced the automaticity, the mis-use of TR2 Acknowledgements. “Got it!!!” “Understood!” , snapped at you to shut you up, because what you were SAYING was not what THEY wanted or needed to hear right then.
And then there was the warm, empathetic and utterly phony “I understand” upon which the SAME question was again asked…I used to get upset. “How can you say, “I understand”, and then ask me the SAME question again? If you actually UNDERSTOOD you would not be asking me the same question over and over!”
Finally, one day, when I was getting this “I understand” crap to my reasons for not wanting to do something or refusal to buy something, I said, “Look, we are having a CONVERSATION. This is NOT a repetitive process. You are not AUDITING me. We are TALKING. You asked me a question and I have answered it clearly and distinctly TWICE. You HAVE your answer. Don’t tell me “I understand”, again! You’ve asked twice, I have answered twice. I’m GLAD you understand. And now, ENOUGH!”
Total ABUSE of TRs – God, did I resent that!
To @Aquamarine – Madness!!!!!!!! I hear you.
Jens TINGLEFF says
If you are not using the TRs to control victims, are you really using the TRs the way the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientoplogy is using them? Without the control elements, are TRs in any way particular (let alone unique) to the Co$?
I’m just wondering what you think. That is, where does common sense stop and something that truly is taught only in the TRs start?
It’s like “Word Clearing.” I am loudly and persistently criticising it, not because I am against anyone looking up words in dictionaries, but because of the thing that is unique to the use inside the Co$ of looking up words: replacing thought with numb obedience. I consider that there is a distinction between common sense (looking up words) and the aspect that is unique to the Co$ (stopping thought).
But that’s just me 🙂
Jens, I read your comment with interest. I love word clearing but its quite true that word clearing can – if someone isn’t vigilant – “morph” into thought stopping, and vice versa!
In other words, with the intent to stop (someone else’s or one’s own) thought, word clearing is used (“Find your MU!”)
Or, with the intent to get a word understood (in the Scientological sense) thought stopping is employed.
I get it! And both are harmful.
Jens, I also wanted to respond to something else you said.
“Control” is not necessarily bad.
Controlling another person’s communication as well as your own can be very helpful, very beneficial.
If you “control” a conversation between yourself and another, the person dialoguing with you is not necessarily a victim!
Again, it all comes down to INTENT. To PURPOSE. To your purpose in communicating! What are you trying to do via this communication? What effects are you intending to create with this communication? You see?
Its possible that via painful life experiences some people have “control of communication” tightly linked with the authoritarian, domineering and/or abusive behavior of people they know or once knew – people upon whom they were once dependent, possibly, people they trusted, who betrayed them, hurt them.
Jens TINGLEFF says
And what I’m getting at is that what makes TRs different from good communications and what makes Word Clearing different from using a dictionary is the INTENT, when used inside the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology. In other words, what the Co$ adds to common sense is the intent, and that’s why I have a serious problem with people saying “I find a lot of good things in TRs/Word-Clearing.” I hope what they mean is that they have salvaged the common sense part of those two Co$ processes and arrived at common sense practices which are not intended to be – in a word – evil.
And if one has to explain that “what I like is the TRs without the evil intent” why use the word TRs in the first place?
Anyway, the misuse of communications to control (in a bad way) is hardly unique to the Co$. I totally recommend the book “Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion” by Cialdini.
Jens, thank you for expanding on your thoughts, and I wholly agree with them. As for using the word “TRs” I am not invested in using this term. I only use it because I don’t know what else to call them. Thanks also for the book recommendation. Its on my list of potential reads now.
O/T. Scientology Founder L.. Ron Hubbard maligns Islam.
See: “What’s Wrong with this Universe: A Working Package for the Auditor,” L. Ron Hubbard, 9 Dec 1952.
Text excerpts at:
Hubbard on the Lodestone
“..finds this enormous stone hanging suspended in the middle of a room. This is an incident called the Emanator by the way. …and this thing is by the way the source of the Mohammedan Lodestone that they have hanging down there,…”
Hubbard on Muhammad
“…that, eh, when Mohammed decided to be a good small-town booster in ah Kansas, Middle-East, or something of the sort.”
Hubbard on Muhammad’s Motives
“By the way, the only reason he mocked that thing up, is the trade wasn’t good in his hometown. That’s right. You read the life of Mohammed.”
Hubbard on the Casbah [sic]
“And he’s got a black one and it sort of hung between the ceiling and the floor, I don’t know, maybe they call it ‘Casbah’ or something … Anyway, anyway, that thing is a mockup of the Emanator!”
Hubbard on the Roots of Islam
“The Emanator is bright, not black. And so, your volunteer, who insists on a sightseeing trip, goes in and this thing is standing in the middle of the room, and it’s going ‘wong wong wong wong wong’ and he says: “Isn’t that pretty?”. It sure is, and then he says “Mmmgrmrm ponk” Why, I’ll tell you, they cart see him from there, and they take him in and they do a transposition of beingness.”
Mark Kamran says
This shows his ignorance and racist attitude ,which is common amongst Cult founders.
He invented it ,like the whole ” doctrine, no objectivity but obsession.
Now its getting exposed badly even their long term followers are no longer with them, like John Travolta.
“This shows his…racist attitude…”
Mark, Hubbard also ended up inventing a belief system as fanciful and arcane as anything he criticized like that. By the time he had tried to address all the questions and problems that come up in matters of religion and spirituality, he’d embellished his basic supposed science of mind with everything from body thetans (a space opera version of demonic possession) to implant stations on Mars (which must be invisible, since probes and landers can’t find anything).
Mark Kamran says
His obsessions were based on conspiracy theories mixed with science fiction.
According to his Great grand son attended Going cear Conference 2015 , like many scams of cold War era from US intelligentia New Age Cults were one of them.
Since end of cold War era following the disintegration of USSR they lost their purpose like many others Cults and considered orphan.
However they managed to survived due to absence of Multi media and Social media era.
Cults usually dies out after being declared orphan.
So it’s a Final count down, 2025 is the The End .
No one ever imagined that a respiratory pendamic shall clear the Earth from Cults , same as what’s meteriods did to dinosaurs millions years back.
It’s not me ,it’s written on the wall.
Milton Paca says
Hello Mike, can you ask Mrs. Scobee if she could explain in one or two sentences who Yvonne Gillham is and her relationship to L. Ron Hubbard for all the listeners? I just want to make sure that this is clarified.
Mike Rinder says
This was recorded weeks ago. If you feel this is important, you can lay it out in a comment. We don’t mention Yvonne in the episode that I recall.
Milton Paca says
Ok thanks, I didn’t know that the episodes are recorded weeks in advance. I used to think that they are fresh. I am sincerely sorry for that. I will also lay it out in a comment. The problem is that I live in Germany. It takes some time until the episodes come out there. I think there is no possibility anymore to ask Mrs Scobee.