Mike Rinder's Blog

Something Can Be Done About It

More Words of Wisdom from Ron + Leah Remini Talks Aftermath Finale

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It never ceases to amaze me how overtly crazy some of Hubbard’s ramblings are.

Or how the clubbed seals inside the bubble proffer them as evidence of his infallible wisdom in all things.

Not that I didn’t do the same for many, many years. And perhaps that is what makes it even more remarkable to me now.

Here is one being circulated by the geniuses at Kansas City.

It really WAS a goal of Hubbard to “make nothing out of the enemy” (so much for What is Greatness? ) and his idea of his organizations being “a steady firing platform” without which they “cannot make nothing of the enemy” is a pretty bizarre concept. Though very much in line with the “us against the forces of evil” mentality he promoted heavily.

One would think these sort of things would be kept hidden away.

But no, such is the conviction of good scientologists that Hubbard is right 100% of the time about 100% of everything, and even if it sounds crazy it is only because

a. we have misunderstood words and have not grasped what he really meant or

b. we are not yet enlightened enough to fully duplicate his eternal wisdom.

It is a scary thought that people are so under his influence. Even some who leave the “church” cannot seem to shake the idea that Ron was infallible and simply because he said something it makes it fact – with no further need for inspection or evidence. Even as far as “I’m not brainwashed, scientology undoes brainwashing. LRH says so.”

Ron Miscavige interview with Leah concerning The Aftermath Finale

 

Comments

  1. So sorry the show is ending. You and Leah brought the “faith” and practices of Scientology into the light, just as “Going Clear”brought light into the history of L Ron Hubbard and the formation of his “church.” Now, they can go back to operating in the shadows. I hope the SOMEONE picks up the torch and continues the work you started to destroy this cult, and free those brainwashed by them.

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  2. Please dont stop the show. It is the best documentary on TV. I am so happy that you both are fighting for the people still in there. The are so much more to do to bring this cult down . I still want to know where his wife is.

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  3. Hew Thread for Foolproof,
    Who cares what Hubbard said. He had no idea about Karma. Misdefined it totally.

    Reply

  4. I always thought the whole Scientology/Hubbard assembly line had to do with making “OT” (supersouled persons) people through the quack therapy/exorcism of Xenu’s “body-thetans” earth dump.

    Train Scientologists to deliver the quack therapy and quack exorcism, and make “OT” people who can soul fly out of their skulls “out of the body” flying around doing good deeds as pure souls with no more “case” or “upper level–meaning “body-thetans” all gone”

    Fix people’s “cases” and they will become soul flying pure souls and fix earth.

    Simple.

    And the “enemy” is “bank” (case) in people.

    But, it’s quackery, and these “cases” and “body-thetans” are all imaginary, it’s a huge long runway con fraudulent quackery therapy/exorcism sales pitch and failure to delivery this impossible soul improvement.

    Another human con in the long list of human cons people sell each other, and get suckered into supporting and upkeeping during the periods they believe in the goodness and results of the con.

    They get so wrapped up in the bureaucracy of the con and rules and regulations, and penalties for failing to pretend convincingly enough that they are attaining these super-soul improvements, no one ever really got those “OT” powers, but the rules and theory states that people have to demonstrate and “attest” to their new soul statuses, so it’s a conspiracy to fake results.

    And they forever blame each other, per Hubbard’s rules, when they fail to get the falsely claimed goodies Hubbard promised them.

    It’s an obvious racket to outsiders, but soul flying sounded so logical, since so many others in human history believed in the soul’s existence, so soul flying and soul powers seemed logical, due to other human belief systems that believe in the soul, so that’s a big reason I kept with the racket.

    When I was on the RPF the second time, in the final months, I started having the cognition my past lives were all bogus (and I had 60 folders of tens of thousands of past lives incidents, both old Dianetics past lives incidents, and a zillion Truth Rundown and FPRD transgression chains that all went wholetrack pastlives) but in a two to three week period near the end of my second RPF, I realized, suddenly and I felt relieved and set free, that I now really saw the subject as a big possible con.

    None of the Sea Org members I’ve ever met since December 1975 til March 2003, ever once, demonstrated real supernatural OT phenomenon. A few coincidences, but not soul flying telekinesis like is expected.

    Scientology is supported by other unbelievable supernatural beliefs of other religions, especially any that believe the soul survives death, and others that believe in soul transmigration, etc.

    Scientology is a soul transmigration “therapy” and exorcism practice, that relies heavily on the far eastern religions that believe in soul transmigration also.

    So, due to that, I can still see why people will fall for Scientology, some people who favor soul transmigration, can grasp how Scientology fits in with other religions that believe that.

    I can still think of ways of defending Scientology’s/Hubbard’s false claims that their quackery will somehow help people in their long long soul transmigrating journeys through space civilizations int he cosmos.

    That no Scientologists can do any soul flying around for real, after doing the whole Hubbard stepladder of quack therapy and quack exorcism, that’s a disappointment and kind of why I can’t support it for real, since it’s promising something that it doesn’t really produce in any of their followers, and neither Hubbard himself was he able to demonstrate any supernatural soul powers nor soul fly out of his body and convince anyone that he’d done so, routinely as one would expect him to have achieved at least that.

    Reply

  5. I’m a little befuddled as to what type of content creates foolproof click bait. Is it just random? Is there a particular subject that attracts this ADS troll? I really don’t know. But mine is not to analyze the dysfunctional minions who infect the internet.

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  7. Behind Foolproof’s facade, that he is unconscious of, is a deep fear of the truth of L Ron Hubbard. Whether he is OSA, a shut in Indy, or simply bat shit crazy does not really matter.

    If the truth of Hubbard was even seen directly with open eyes, everything he has devoted his life to would come crashing down with the same thud we all have experienced.

    The stuck brain loop, the held down seven, the word cleared insanity he was exhibits is very simple to discover. FP is a trained attack dog as all followers of Hubbard are.

    Never defend, always attack. This simple concept that you have agreed to FP has made you into a Hubbard reactive robot.

    You really are not that mean underneath the facade. You are probably a nice person somewhere inside you.

    But attack, never defend or dialog with SPs has made you into a looney nut job. And that was trained into you.

    Here is the link with the various versions of OT8 being discussed by the various participants.

    Isn’t it simply fascinating FP that knowledge can harm you. Especially when that knowledge is based on falsehoods.

    Read this thread if you dare. But I think your need to not know the truth and keep the story going is more important than finding truth.

    In other words, you are more comfortable with lies and that’s why your personality is so distorted with ugliness. But you see it as fighting the SPs and saving the universe.

    That also was educated into you. That’s the looney part. You think you are doing good. And we all feel sorry for you.

    Check out the link
    https://markrathbun.blog/2013/07/03/dangerous-thoughts/#comment-271527

    Reply

    • Brian speculates about FOOLproof:
      “Whether he is OSA, a shut in Indy, or simply bat shit crazy does not really matter.”

      How about 2 outta 3. Since he claims to be an Indy that is most likely wrong since accuracy and forthrightness isn’t really his forte. Therefore I have to conclude that he is a bat shit crazed** OSA operative. He exhibits all the characteristics of a common internet troll but provides valuable insight into a mind on scientology. Unbeknownst to him this insight is incredibly valuable for the fence-sitters, doubters, side-liners and under the radar types that peruse this blog. Sometimes seeing what a real scientologist behaves like is just enough to wake them up.

      ** I don’t think he is crazy, just crazed. This will resolve itself in anyone who weans themselves off the KSW Kool-Aid. I’m not holding my breath that this will happen. As you correctly note he is avoiding that crashing thud most of us have experienced.

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    • Nonsense Brain. You’d better read the whole link then where the “hoax” is discussed. I read the link years ago. But then I had read the “original” document around 1990 and saw the list of “processes” that accompanied the silly Lucifer document which because of their crass nature have somehow “disappeared” never to be seen again as it started to be too obvious the thing was balderdash. And no one has ever explained how the original “HCOB” got off the ship down the gangplank – what, Dave gave a complimentary copy of (if it were true) the most confidential document in Scientology history to every one who did it to take home with them? Yeah, sure. Otherwise whoever composed it has done a remarkable job recreating it word for word! Yes, truly remarkable! No, the thing is some lunatics mock-up to discredit Hubbard and Scientology. There was also the idea put forward that it was in the OSA files somewhere – haha! Now, if it were the real OTVIII do you think that would be just lying about in an OSA filing cabinet? (Well, unless Mike put it there – ha)

      So who was it then who “liberated it” and got hold of a copy of it? And how? Down that gangplank?

      Brain you can keep repeating all this and believing it but anyone with knowledge of Scientology knows it is a complete invention. When I first saw this idea being bandied about a few years back I thought “surely people cannot be that idiotic to believe this shit?” But I stand corrected…

      And how about this: “If you run the processes wrongly you will spontaneously combust” And you believe this shit? LOL! In your lust to denigrate Scientology you make a fool of yourself.

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      • Notice how he did not read the link or respond. That is all you need to know about the mind of Foolproof.

        His research ability would make the Hubs proud: none

        You are an open book my friend. Ha ha!

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        • Ha! This is almost unbelievable! You obviously did not duplicate what I stated, which explains you completely. What does “I read the link years ago” mean? But then this is the sort of thing you do – like running “OTIII” on your back porch without an e-meter and without previous grades being in – a total mishmash and you think people might believe your nonsense?

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          • Foolproof, this is how I see you:

            Remember that Japanese soldier that was found years and years and years after the war, on some island, who still thought the war was on and still fighting the evil United States………………

            That is you my friend. The war is over FP. You can come out of hiding now. Come out from behind the shadows. Tell us who you are, your real name. It’s ok, FP.

            You are fighting the dark specters of Hubbard’s long dead delusional SPs.

            But you won’t come out of hiding because you are afraid. And that fear was instilled in you by your guru; by the doctrines you have internalized that you think is your perspective.

            In my church, no one hides who they are. No one makes up names to hide from being harmed by my church.

            It’s only in following the paranoid teachings of a madman does hiding who you are actually become an option.

            Are you a shut in FP, that doesn’t get out much, that does not have many friends, who gets excited about life only when someone criticizes Hubbard? And then you come alive and find purpose in fighting the enemies of your master?

            I hope one day you can free yourself from this need to fight shadows FP.

            The war is over. Hubbard’s PR is toast. Scientology PR is toast. And I think you may be ready for butter and jelly yourself.

            Reply

  8. NEW THREAD
    I was on the Super Literacy course about six months. Yea, I looked up about 5,500 words as I recall.
    You need to study Zoroastrianism to understand Scientology. That is what I got out of the course.
    I got onto a chain about ?Ahura Mazda? and ran right into Scientology. Got put into Ethics because my twin and I were laughing so hard the instructor canned us. Seriously Foolproof, I am now understanding you better. Seek help.

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    • Yes George, fun days;

      My twin and I finished up with a Method 1 co-audit. We ended up in the UCLA and Caltech libraries late at night– meters and all— with stacks of dictionaries. We worked behind words to flashing pictures, and then futher back to flashing concepts. And, yes, concepts can have a ‘misunderstanding’ unless both beings occupy the same space. We violated current ‘rules’ nightly. We took duplication to a higher level.

      We concluded Zoraster and Trismegistus Hermes were one and the same: And from ‘him’ came the Hindu one source/god for all, some 7000 plus years back.

      The ASHO C/S’s didn’t know what to do with us. Just as well. We would turn our folders in around 1 AM, go home to sleep, put in 8 hours at work, and usually go audit without swinging by to get our folders.

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      • Very interesting. Blavatsky reached mainly the same conclusion. – the Hindu one source God 7,000 years back. In my own situation, we ended by looking up Angra Mainyu, the destructive god of Zoroastrianism. I do not remember how many years back it was but I seem to recall 5,000.
        We concluded that you could trace Scientology to this religion. We never followed the one source god because Scientology seemed to be without a real god. Later on, I saw that OT V was mainly from Zoroastrianism. Hubbard split Blavatsky into the occult and into Science Fiction. Hubbard mentions that he was Gnostic but this was only because of his lack of knowledge.

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    • So true George! Scientology is induced insanity. It is so fascinating how a masterful manipulator can mold the minds of men to their liking.

      I think that’s why Hubbard was so looney tunes at the end. I think he believed in what he was doing and considered he was saving the Universe, that he was the only way to salvation. He also thought the greater good for the greater number. That’s when he felt justified using black propaganda and mind control.

      FP is certainly left over damage from his mind manipulating doctrines.

      Reply

      • Brian,
        Shazaaaam! ” Induced Insanity ” via indoctrination/ relentless trance induction/ emotional disassociation/ delusion vis-a-vis a loaded-language-defined, milieu-controlled fantasy. Absolute, bat-shit-crazy, atavistically predatory cult fuckery!

        Reply

  9. I love the last sentence of the Hubbard quote. I assume there is a typo.
    “And we have willing . . .”

    What a great way to celebrate El Con!

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  10. Old L. Ron Hubbard
    Went to the cupboard
    In search of the keys to OT
    When he got there
    The cupboard was bare
    Except for his pesky BTs

    Reply

  11. I notice the words in that short article by hubbard are words of an army at war. He uses words like enemy, firing platform, fortress to defeat the enemy, etc. He talks like he’s at war then calls it a religion?? And that’s what they do…they make war on “others” not realizing they are creating their own karma that will come back to bite them in the ass. I don’t mean the staff who believe they are helping, while delivering auditing, but those who are complicit in fair game and attacking others while justifying disconnections. Religion? Sheesh.

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    • true. But remember: auditors are the people, which put you in heavy hypnosis. They seem to be nice and honest, spend their time but the point is to keep you along in the hubbard mind.

      Doesnt this take bad karma ( in form of revenge) on their shoulders?
      I guess yes. Its tricky, as it looks good, but is worder than the wounded Fletcher.

      Reply

      • I see what you mean. But I think the difference in the auditor and their dirty tricks bureau is in the word intention. The auditor has a good intention. the dirty tricks people intend to hurt/harm and destroy. But I do agree there is karma for all of us in whatever we do.

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  12. O/T. On July 26, 2019, Scientology Freedom Medal Winner Nation of Islam Minister Tony Muhammad spoke at the Muhammad University of Islam graduation held at a Church of Scientology facility (i.e., a COS church or community center) in Los Angeles and:

    – beginning at approximately 3:20 (i.e., 5:02 remaining),

    — referred to President Trump as, “this crazy president” (note: regardless of one’s opinion of President Trump, this is relevant to the efforts by Scientology Clear and Patron Meritorious Joy Villa and Scientology generally to infiltrate the MAGA community and ingratiate itself with the Trump administration);

    — referred to the United States as, “a country that is falling”;

    — said, America “is the wickedest nation on earth”;

    — said, “you are witnessing a civilization going out”; and

    – beginning at approximately 6:05 (i.e., 2:17 remaining), referred to “White people, our enemies.”

    ESMB post: http://www.forum.exscn.net/threads/scientology-awards-freedom-medal-to-nation-of-islam-min-tony-muhammad-who-promotes-anti-semitic-book.44564/page-17#post-1221229

    First of two expected Twitter video excerpts: https://twitter.com/ISNOINews/status/1163537119811231744

    NOTE: Despite the use of the word “university,” a Muhammad University of Islam is a pre-K through 12th grade school. Every major NOI mosque has a MUI. The schools are headed by the Nation of Islam’s Ministry of Education, led by Dr. Larry Muhammad. Established in 1930, MUI is the first Islamic African-American school system in America.

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    • “…this crazy President…” Well whattyknow. I never thought I’d agree on any points made by “Minister” Tony Muhammed but as the saying goes, a broken clock, etc. 🙂

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    • That group and its schools are NOT Islamic. NOI is all about some whack, Afro Space Opera, Secret Sauce Mystic Science from “The Original Man ” bool-sheet. Farrakhan, for decades, has mixed bits of Christianity, Judaism( yes, the irony! ), Islam, and a kind of half-baked black separatist, pan-Africanist philosophy into a sloppy, culty brew of mind-fuck.

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      • Mark — I agree, neither the NOI nor the MUI are Islamic in my opinion. I regret I copied and pasted from the Wikipedia entry on the MUI in order to provide context and background information about the MUI for those who were not familiar with it. I’m sorry, I forgot that when I pasted the text here that, unlike on ESMB and WWP, the link did not get pasted with the text.

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  14. This exactly what I’ve been saying. No one is infallible. Blind faith is death. I am a never in and my parents taught me that no one is perfect. I know that anyone can be blinded by the light, but to believe a science fiction writer could discover the secret to eternity just blows me away. In my sceptical mind, I would never allow LRH, or anyone for that matter, to tell me who I can and can not associate with or speak to.

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  16. I first perused Dianetics, the modern science of mental health, in 1972. Even as a High School junior, I laughed at the forward and first chapter. I later found that it conformed to what was later called the Nigerian Prince Emall scam. It attracted those who could make a leap of faith (or delusion of faith) and join in the $cieno fun.

    Dianetics is written to confuse you and put a ‘hey, that Lron guy knows something’, mindset. That approach didn’t work on me, but it did rope in enough people to replace those who escaped and build up the $cieno network. $cientology was still growing in the ’70’s. I put that down to good salesmanship, not Lron’s disjointed book.

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  18. Scientology….We were mocking the whole thing up (what we wanted it to be).

    L Ron Hubbard was a master manipulator, con man, GASLIGHTING expert and criminal.

    He used deceit, lies and manipulation to get us to believe Scientology was what we wanted it to be.

    Today Scientologists , including my family, are still doing it.

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    • Do not despair. Unfortunately the members are not so intelligent as they believe. If you got at the scn intelligent test a 140, it is nothing more tha a middle score in a wog testing. And you made this same test more than twice. This is the trick to make you proud for nothing.

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  19. I first realized it when I was trying to figure out what some drivel El Con wrote meant. After “clearing” all the words it was still insane. I checked with the Course Supervisor and he made SURE I understood every word and it was still gibberish. I asked him what he thought it meant and he answered, “That would be verbal tech.”
    I replied, “So it was gibberish to you too!” He just smirked and walked away.

    Reply

    • Aha! See – told you so! Wnyski goes past MisUs – haha! So here we have the point where Wynski’s 2nd Phenomenon kicked in! Or was it even earlier than that? And obviously that supervisor didn’t know his (LRH) tech on supervision either. Tut tut! Now Wyn, if you went back to that point and cleared up the word(s), you might get an epiphany! Might save you doing A-E in several lifetimes time as well eh?

      Reply

      • Here’s something for you to clear:

        It’s far too early in the day for you’re bullshit. I must ask you to cease and desist all nonsense until further notice. Thanks.

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      • Foolproof…you are bat shit crazy 😜

        Nothing you say makes any logical sense. You have lost your ability to reason.

        You may want to start a Detox Deprogramming Program.

        Get that poison think out of your head.

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      • Foolproof,
        What a pot-stirrer you are 🙂
        If necessary make sure you clear that term in good Yiddish American dictionary and use it in sentences 🙂

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          • Yes, Stoolpoof, to the extent that you can pull your head out of your ass and clear the shit out of your brain and attempt to engage in rational discourse, fer sure, dear cultist, you are in good company and have a chance to evolve into something other than a robotic, pablum-spewing Hubbard hemorrhoid.
            You still can’t bring scientific proof of the efficacy of Dianetics and scientology to any discussion here. You cannot bring proof of the existence of the states of Clear or Operating Thetan, much less share the empirical confirmation of the mental machinery
            ( engrams, locks, secondaries, ser facs, yaddah yaddah, etc.) that is allegedly eliminated or transformed by ” the tech ” you so slavishly quote and adhere to.
            You are an arrogant, ignorant, mean-spirited wreck of a human being.
            But, by all means, DO post links to the written/audio/video confirmations of the stable state of Clear existing in one human being( stable eidetic memory, lack of colds, superior IQ and the rest of the attributes of a Clear as stated in DIANETICS, THE MODERN SCIENCE OF HEALTH) and demonstrations of operating thetan powers( at knowing and willing cause over life, matter, energy, space, and time, SUBJECTIVE AND OBJECTIVE ) by one or more individuals.
            PROOF. You have it, right? Bring it! Or…kindly shut the fuck up.

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      • Hey Foolproof, why don’t you ask to see a policy where it says you have to donate huge sums of money that are NOT for any kind of services?

        Why don’t you ask for a policy where you need to donate to raise your ethics condition?

        Why don’t you ask where you can find anything LRH ever said about making people rerun the same courses, sometimes many times?

        Why don’t you ask for the policy letter on Ideal Orgs and see how much of the Ideal Org strategy came from Source and how much is Squirrel?

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              • I’ll ask you this question for the 10th time now.

                If $cientology is so super duper great, why are there hardly any members left? Why aren’t people banging down the doors to get to it? Why are so many people UTR or have left? Why are the orgs nearly empty?

                Do you have an answer or will you continue to ignore the question?

            • Reply to Katherine Invalidate above: It is somewhat true that there would have been many more members if Mike’s COBber Dave had not made it somewhat onerous to be a member, but your darling Mike was involved in that mismanagement as well.

              Secondly Scientology is there for people who have a willingness to change or better themselves and who are not dead in the head and is thus elitist in that sense so it won’t necessarily appeal to “millions” anyway. “To make the able more able” is the phrase used.

              Thirdly, your assumption that the Orgs are empty is an oft-repeated mantra here yet as I said when I went in to my old Org there were about the same amount of people there when I was involved in the Org and my Org was pretty full most of the time. Some Orgs have always been fairly empty depending on where it is and who runs it so to report that is somewhat of a “ho hum”. Some Orgs were empty in the 70s, some Orgs were full.

              But the fact remains that despite any mismanagement the Orgs are still there and people are attending them. And Mike’s COBber has amassed a fortune to back them up, which is about the only thing that could be claimed. Just goes to show that the technology is still pushing through despite any counter-intention. Much to your chagrin eh?

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      • Foolproof, I imagine it must be rather discouraging to find scarcely anyone on this blog agreeing with your comments, much less the tech and policies of L. Ron Hubbard. Keep the faith baby!

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        • Scribe, I strongly suspect FOOLproof WANTS everyone else to disagree with his comments. Trolls gotta troll, ya’ know. The more discord he generates, the higher his “stats”.

          Sad, actually, that he can’t seem to have a rational discussion — ever.

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          • What kind of troll am I
            Who fell for Hubbard’s pitch
            It seems that I’m the only one here
            Swallowing all his shit

            What kind of man is this
            An empty shell
            A lonely cell in which
            This toxic venom dwells

            What kind of lips are these
            That lied with every word
            That whispered empty praise of Ron
            That now seems so absurd

            Why can’t I see the sham
            Like any other man
            And maybe then I’ll know
            What kind of troll I am

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        • Nothing to do with faith Scribe. Just observation of the obvious. The observations of the comments on here that show blatantly that Hubbard was totally correct in describing the phenomena that occur when people don’t understand something. He even created a technology to help people overcome all this and STILL they didn’t get it. Ah! Well! I might give all this up soon, many will be glad to see/hear – then they can get on with their nattering and chagrin.

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          • I’m afraid it is faith Foolproof. Hubbard was a stranger to the scientific method. His ‘discoveries’ can in no way stand up to independent, peer reviewed research.

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          • FP, Hubbard made the same mistake that the early psychiatrists did – thought that observation equaled research, and failed to take into account that between the placebo effect and observer biases, plus the natural tendency of people to improve on their own over time, and were completely fooled about the efficacy of what they had been doing. Something similar happened with the quack who did ice pick lobotomies for a couple of years in the 1940s, who was certain he’d found a great new “tech” for helping “crack” tough cases that he saw working before his eyes, and even convinced the Kennedys that he had a new scientific mental health treatment.

            Before that, practitioners of magic were sure that their potions and spells were powerful “tech.” Everyone who engages faith healing or voodoo is just as certain as you that they’ve observed that it “works.”

            It’s “obvious” that the earth is flat and the sun rotates around it, right? That’s what people thought they observed since time immemorial. And of course, it’s absolutely wrong – our limited powers of observation, and even our senses, can lead us to be fooled

            Can you explain what the fundamental difference is between say a voodoo practitioner, who has formulas and treatments worked out over generations, and a scientologist like you? Or are you stuck having to concede that by your Hubbardian standards, they’re more or less equivalently workable “tech,” with similar results?

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        • Scribe, I don’t think Fool is ever discouraged here. He’s just getting his jollies with a bit of low grade trolling. No harm in that. The sad thing is he’s obviously a smart guy but he just can’t communicate very well outside the cult indoctrination that he’s steeped in. Different rules here in the real world that he just doesn’t get. Some ‘OT’ he is…

          I actually think it would be fun to sit down and have a civil discussion with him over a beer or two but if the conversation went as well as it does 99% of the time on this blog it would be much more fun to try to communicate with a rock or any inanimate object. Plus, he’d probably want you on a meter to clear every word he uttered to make sure you don’t have any of the ever present ‘MUs’ that are the downfall of the entire universe.

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          • Yes, you’re right – a beer would possibly help take the edge off. Flushing out the kool-aid would be a much more difficult undertaking. He’s obviously not stupid and able to string sentences together. Unfortunately, his thoughts are all filtered through the Hubbard 100% proof cult cocktail he’s unwittingly consumed. Alas, the beverage is not foolproof.

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      • FP, a quote just for you: “Every time you think you weaken the nation.” I will leave it up to you to use your super powers to track down where it originated.

        You are the spiteful, opionated, and self important child relative of this site that is barely tolerated. You go on and on until you are pushed into a corner because of your bullshit then you sulk until you feel it’s safe to lift your head above the parapet to start the whole thing over again. And again. And again, ad nauseam.

        Oh yes, Mike, I hereby give you permission to allow FP to reply to my comment because it obviously upsets the little princess when he feels he is being unfairly targetted.

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    • Wynski,
      Great story!
      This issue of ” no verbal tech ” raised an alarm for me in the early days of my post-cult exit, when I was slowly figuring out that ” the tech senior to life itself ” could not be discussed, assessed, or critically compared to other “systems” of thought . I realized that to doubt it or to find it absurd or to conclude that it had numerous inconsistencies and contradictions were, literally, crimes in the cult ( KSW, scientology
      ” ethics ” ). I started waking up to what was right before me, in plain sight: that there was/ is no LEARNING OR STUDYING happening in a scientology, only passive, obedient absorption of Hubbard’s word salad. Course supervisors weren’t teachers, they were enforcers. The heads bent over shuffled pages of bullshit and elaborate clay sculptures were being systemstically scrambled, fucked, and loaded with confusing, contradictory bits of insane garbage.
      It dawned on me that literacy and independent, critical thinking were not being developed; roboticism, a clumbsy literal-mindedness, cognitive dissonance, and an almost constant state of trance or disassociation were, instead.
      I had a feeling of recurring spaciness, difficulty with concentrating, and general tiredness that lingered for years after I left the cult that I attributed to the slow recession of the injurious effects of hours of using study tech plus hours of giving and receiving objectives( accelerated by therapy and much educational/ remedial reading ). Apparently, there are cult studies that confirm that this is a common condition experienced by ex-members of cults that extensively used routines that produced disassociation( study tech, auditing, chants, singing, sleep deprivation, fasting, social isolation, etc. in myriad combinations, applied intensively over months or years ).

      Reply

        • The one with “classic symptoms of MisUs is YOU, FOOLproof, as Mark wrote a literate, considered response, while you merely attacked in the feeblest way possible, not giving any indication you actually read the comment he crafted.

          Reply

        • Oh ,Foolproof.
          I guess you can’t be arsed to read any SCIENTIFIC data of the last 60 year about learning methodology, long and short term memory, trance induction and emotional disassociation, and the roles of the nervous system( which includes the brain ) physical health, and the environment in learning new skills/ intellectual development…
          Nah, you, steeped in 1950’s pulp fiction and shitty, laughably trite pseudo-science, are a feckin’ expert and have correctly assessed my
          ” condition “. Aha! Of course you know best, right? Proof? Pah, no need for that, when you can just robotically repeat the Hubbard misinformation and woo.
          What a complete, addled fuckwit you are!
          Thanks for another tragi-comic display of stupidity and arrogance. At least you deliver in THAT fashion- consistently.

          Reply

      • Excellent comments Mark. From what I’ve read of your comments over the years, it seems that you were one of those whose was not only in, your were ALL the way in. Same here. When I woke up I had pretty much the same symptoms. Sort of like “the bigger they are, the harder they fall”. The fall was mighty and I still feel a few repercussions now and then but once the initial shock was over life has never looked better. I can’t really say that I’m grateful for the experience but I’m sure as fuck grateful for the awakening when I finally took the blinders off and was able to see more clearly.

        Now, get ready for some Fool to come along and claim the cult’s ‘MU phenomena’ is the cause of all the evil that has ever existed. Christ, you’d think he was pimping for Webster if you didn’t know he was pimping for Hubbard.

        Reply

      • Mark, Hubtard said he reserved the right to make utterances and opinions on things OTHERS wrote (aka verbal tech of others material) but since he KNEW his crap could not stand up to the same treatment he forbid that to HIS followers under pain of being declared a violent criminal like he was.

        Reply

          • One of the many benefits of being “Source”.

            Once Scientologists wake up and realize he was really Source of Bullshit, or SOB, he and COB can be seen for the scammers they really are.

            Reply

            • Ha ha!
              SOB=SOURCE OF BOOLSHEET
              COB=CUP OF BOOLSHEET
              CAPTAIN OF BOOLSHEET
              CONTINUANCE OF BOOLSHEET
              CROWN OF BOOLSHEET
              CONTROLLER OF BOOLSHEET
              CUNTY OFFICIAL BOOLSHEETER
              COCKY OFFENSIVE BOOLSHEETER

              HIP,HIP,HOORAY, dear Crappy Offensive Bumpkin!

              Reply

  20. I spent seventeen years in the church of Scientology thinking about this issue of Ron’s rightness about all things. In the beginning, it seemed like he was just very confident. But as the years rolled on I began to see the great distance between reality and Hubbard’s subjective reality. On the Philadelphia Doctorate Tapes Hubbard talks only about the “behavior of the theoretical thetan”. So he spent his whole life never needing scientific proof. He was only describing the “theoretical” behavior of an entity which he could not prove existed. This is a great deceptive way to lead a life. You talk about the theory of something but forget to say along the way to your audience that you are in theory only. You can then have a situation where science fiction becomes reality because you are only talking about theory anyway. Hubbard’s little jabs about being the Buddha and living in Kant’s lecture hall bothered me a great deal. But if you look at a mind that is only theoretical Hubbard could make those statements and you are stunned by his boldness. I always like the posted picture of Hubbard that is on today because it reminds me of the antithesis of morality. Can you imagine Hubbard with a begging bowl in ancient India looking for his next meal as the Buddha? No it is impossible. It is impossible because Hubbard’s theoretical illusions are not really illusions but the constructs of a sick mind. Hubbard could not even get the Occult into proper perspective. He was in a “dead end”. OT VIII proves it because he says that he failed to audit the GE and therefore all auditing is wrong. What a way to leave a Church. So Miscavige cannot deal with anti-Christ and lowers all expectations.

    Reply

    • One finds it hard to reconcile this with the content of the original OT VIII and other such documents where Hubbard appeared to want to claim divinity for himself. Claims to infallibility are claims to divinity by implication anyway – but you have this constant stream of data Ron presented about himself and his later life that portray him as the suffering servant who nearly dies making these essential discoveries for the benefit of mankind, devoting his life to saving people’s souls and giving them spiritual freedom, then eventually giving up his body so he can continue his saving work in a spiritual fashion.

      He saw himself as some kind of a Christ figure and seems to have been jealous of the place in history of Jesus in Christianity. Toward the end of his life Ron seems to have focused on him in some ways, such as, again, when he attacks Jesus in the original OT VIII documents. Much as he does anyone whose position opposes his own or whose position Ron covets, he attacks them and lies about them.

      But of course Ron was not Jesus or even a genius, he was a crank that couldn’t save himself from death, the psychs, or insanity in the end.

      Reply

      • Here’s another one who believes the April Fool’s version of “New OTVIII”. Seemingly they never learn.

        Reply

        • And you’re believing in COB’s squirrel tech, out tech, and turning the whole religion into a real estate scam by focusing it all on fundraising, and lying about expansion. 10-15k active scientologists in the world at most. What words are you going past? You should be clearing ‘off’ and ‘policy’

          Reply

          • YEs, it’s the version he liked better. It’s the one that tells you all the auditing you have done in scientology was a fool’s errand, chasing things that were imaginary and “not you”. That version is the good one in his view.

            I don’t know about the “good” version of the Xenu, DC8 spaceplanes, thetans frozen in glycol, hydrogen bombing volcanoes and islands that didn’t exist etc etc story. That OT Level is no April Fool’s joke according to him as it is provably written by Hubbard in his own hand and voice.

            Reply

            • Nope wrong again. Obviously you have as usual mis-duplicated my posts. It is more likely to be HCO BULLETIN OF 1 OCTOBER 1969 Why Thetans Mock Up.

              But then did you falsely attest your OTIII then Mike? Surely not eh?

              Reply

        • It must be such a disturbance in your thoughts to have the facts of the original OT8 presented to you.

          I can show you the link on Marty’s site where numerous folks who took the original OT8 commented. What the comments revealed FP was that the first arrivals of OT8 had that one. After the grumbles and WTFs from those OT8s Miscavige changed it.
          I guess the Catholic boy in him could not pass on Hubbard’s claim of Lucifer.

          Others chimed in and said they did not take that version.

          What was learned was those who took it before a certain time did that Lucifer version. And those who did it after a certain time did not.

          Would you like me to send the link so you can see for yourself?

          But I think you are too afraid to read it and will default to deflection and nastiness.

          If anyone else wants to read that discussion I’ll post here for you.

          FP, certain truths are suppressive. Maybe you should not read it. It will enturbulate you.

          You may even freewheel.

          Cue FP to regurgitate me on the back porch not dying doing OT3 “incorrectly”

          I hope you are well FP. Nice to see you around.

          Reply

          • Brian, well put. FP also faces the dissonance that Hubbard doesn’t come out well any way you look at it: if his trusted and hand-picked successors were presenting a bogus or joke version of the pinnacle of the “tech” just 2 years after his death, as FP seems to prefer to imagine, that points to something having been very wrong with Hubbard’s judgment, and to deep problems with the running of Scientology that would have affected much more of the “tech” as well.

            FP seems very “enturbulated” over OTVIII, having mentioned it numerous times in recent posts. Scientologists are sort of the people of the Freudian Slip, having so much bottled up inside them due to Hubbard’s thought-stopping indoctrination that it frequently spills out, and I think he’s revealing what he can’t quite confront.

            Reply

      • MarcAnon, even DM eventually saw the internal illogic and out PR of Hubtard’s original OT VIII material and edited those parts out. The 8 you and George are talking about is the one the first C/S were trained on at Int HQ before launch of the FleaWinds

        Reply

    • Well, considering that Hubbard’s “theoretical thetan” was stated in 1952 with the PDCs does not mean that his emphatic writings (that a thetan is a thetan and not “theoretical”) later on invalidate his earlier, and probably “skeptical sounding” statement only for the audiences of that time, to whom it may well have been a new concept. Does it George, no matter how you try and couch it and twist it?
      Or don’t you believe in the soul now, as you Jesuit-trained people believe.

      As to your daft comments about the April Fool’s version of “OTVIII”, I don’t want to discuss this nonsense any further as I might “spontaneously combust” or start wearing Jesuit robes or something, if not a hair shirt which you guys are fond of.

      Reply

        • Hubbard did not really believe in the soul because if you check your Jesuit sources you will see that they really copied it from Plato anyway but changed it for their purposes. Hubbard can really be traced back to Iamblichus who wrote in the second Century. He was a Theurgist and is more similar to Hubbard. In fact, you could call Hubbard a Theurgist and really see the thetan stuff as his jokes into Gnosticism. Hubbard never cared about you Foolproof. You get the thetan as a result of Hubbard flunking Physics. He talks about the base of the motor. Hubbard never understood probability theory or statistics or quantum physics. He was totally out of date. You can easily trace the idea of the thetan and see that it is a meaningless concept. As for my belief in the soul, the best answer that I can give you is just remain silent.

          Reply

          • Well, it seems that the Misunderstoods are having a field day today! It’s all coming out now – the confusions that is. I have never seen such a rambling load of nonsense as your comment above, well, yes I have, but you know what I mean. Well, perhaps you don’t?

            Reply

              • I did the “Primary RunDown”, as well, George.

                What a MONUMENTAL waste of time and effort! Before scn, I was a very fast reader. After the PRD, my reading pace slowed to a crawl, with no improvement in comprehension and a marked decrease in my enjoyment of reading. Lately, I’ve been trying to suspend my use of the garbage. My reading speed and comprehension have picked up slightly, but the 10 years that I believed and practiced that folderol are haunting me still.

                It’s a tough habit, (dare I say addiction?), to kick, in my experience.

                I’m of the opinion that Ron’s intention was to PUNISH those of us who DARED read and understand things like mathematics and science comfortably, perhaps even easily.

                HOW he got to be a Navigation Officer in the Navy is a mystery to me, as a firm grasp of Algebra, if not Trigonometry, was required to figure out where you were in the years before electronic Navigation like LORAN or GPS . Then again, he DID mistake Mexico for a belligerent country and fired on its territory during WW II. [Never mind that he could have, probably did, navigate line-of-sight most of the way down the West Coast. AFAICT, none of ‘study tech’ had any redeeming qualities.

          • Scientology is psychospiritual reductivism for the intellectually lazy. That’s its usp. The concept of the thetan is one of many heuristic clichés that, when layered, are arguably used to increase expectation and the potency of the placebo effect. As the basis of a religious narrative – what the individual’s subconscious will draw from in therapy – it certainly has meaning. And value…even if illusory.

            Reply

            • Here’s some more nonsense and blather. It is getting better and better and proving my point. This is really turning into a Confused Ideas Festival. I wonder what will come next?

              Reply

              • Aww why is it nonsense? What don’t you agree with?

                Are you seriously not open to the teeniest, tiniest possibility that the nature of your whole track memories might be influenced by Hubbard’s prose, even in part?

                That maybe if Hubbard had kept his space opera to himself, you might not have recalled blowing up that planet all those gazillions of years ago?

                That what you interpret as a whole track incident might actually be a manifestation of both Hub’s cosmic fantasy spliced with your own subconscious narrative?

                Not even a smidge?

        • Well he must have been quite a good copier – all those thousands of bulletins and tapes, let alone the books! Did he have a Xerox machine working full time?

          Reply

          • FOOL proof, maybe if you thought a little before posting, you might make some sense: quality Copiers, Xerox® machines, and the like didn’t come into wide use until after Tubby died. In fact, my impression is that the “workable” portions of scn were the plagiarisms he did duplicate and somewhat understand from someone else’s work, the writings of real thinkers. The rest just didn’t work as he made it up out of whole cloth, pulled it out of his overly-ample posterior, however you want to put it. Research? He didn’t understand the word any more than he understood his college courses.

            Reply

            • Er jere, that was the joke – copiers etc. Get it now?

              As to research he was constantly refining Dianetics and Scientology as to WHAT WORKED for the PC!

              Reply

          • Apparently his imagination worked full time, considering Xenu and all…

            Oh, no, we can’t talk about that, can we? Then you’d have to admit you actually believe that crazy, made up shit.

            Oh, wait.. let me guess. He wasn’t being literal when he made up Xenu. But then, why the super secret suitcase containing said nonsense?

            Oh dear, I feel pneumonia coming on. No wait… just a sneeze. Allergies caused by horseshit.

            Reply

        • A bunch of garrulous gibberish. You can tell even as a “pc” he’s running and controlling the session. I used to believe Hubbard knew things that I didn’t. I am now totally disabused of this notion. He just made it up, and what’s fascinating, got other to fall for it!

          Reply

    • Hubbard was an early adopter of “fake it or make it” style thinking, arguably first popularized in the book Think and Grow Rich (1937) by Napoleon Hill – a con man who lied about his past, claimed to be surrounded by spirit entities, and created a sort of a cult, which seems like a fairly direct precedent.

      That approach can actually work in something like sales, but is a recipe for disaster when it comes to science or anything that requires rigor – including mental health treatments.

      Thus it’s no surprise that many scientologists, and apparently most of those with much money, run businesses focused on sales and marketing, many of them dubious and some of them outright fraudulent, or are self-promoters bordering on Dunning-Kruger syndrome, like Joy Villa.

      Reply

      • Well I suppose there is “rigor” involved in “mental health treatments” when strapping someone down before their heads are blasted with massive currents of electricity! Or slipping them a few tabs of LSD as is again being proposed by “mental health experts”. Yes, very rigorous.

        Reply

          • Er, no, the LSD crime for mental patients is being proposed again – few months back as I recall. And ECT is still carried out. I am afraid you are the one out of PT. You should keep up George and not believe all the nonsense you read here.

            Reply

            • You are an old guy Foolproof. My teacher defines your type as psychological antiques.

              You are an old curmudgeon with stuck mind loops, brought to you by study tech.

              You bark and bark and delude yourself into thinking that you are doing something valuable here.

              You are a great example of a psychological antique. Hubbard was a psychological antique.

              Stuck in your ways and seemingly can’t escape. Keep coming here FP. At some point you – the soul- the conscious independent being will get it.

              But you can’t. Because if you did, you’d become the person you are hating here on Mike’s site,

              You’ll get through this FP. Just keep coming back to Mike’s site. That’s is why you are really here. But you don’t know it yet. That’s ok. We were all kinda like you. Maybe not as nasty.

              Reply

            • I’d been meaning to point out to FP, modern ECT uses about as much power as an e-meter charge.

              I had the meter (electrical) out to work on one of my old cars last weekend, and was reminded that I’d done the calculations on that out a while back. If you use a meter on resistance setting (basically how the e-meter functions) and cross an airbag circuit, the bag can deploy because it puts out enough electricity across the testing leads (or cans, if you hooked some up) to trigger the detonator.

              That puts modern ECT in perspective – and raises questions about what long-term e-meter use might do.

              Reply

              • WRONG PeaceMaker! Modern ECT uses about 150 V DC @~.9 amps. That is equivalent to a 1,000 watt microwave oven output at power setting 5!

                An emeter uses a carrier wave of a few volts and negligible amps. Also, it does NOT work like your multi-meter. Have you EVER studied a Wheastone bridge circuit?

                An ECT machine causes the entire body to convulse. What F are you blathering on about?

        • FP, Hubbard and the early psychiatrists relied too much on theory about how they thought things ought to be, which was typical of early 20th century health sciences including medicine. But psychiatry was starting to become more scientific by mid-century, when Hubbard went back to dabbling with things they’d tried earlier like abreaction/regression and electropsychometers, that had seemed impressive first but had not stood up to scrutiny as to their long-term effectiveness.

          I’m no particular fan of psychiatry, in part because long ago we had a family member who was hooked on an expensive form of Freudian analysis that was much like what I saw later in Scientology – producing lots of claims of realizations about past trauma, but in reality fragile “cases” making no more obvious progress or change than it seemed like they might have just on their own. But at least psychiatry and the related sciences have since become very outcome-oriented, figuring out what actually produces results including in some of the most difficult patients (the psychotics, schizophrenics and so on for whom Scientology has no answers at all), based on research under the sort of carefully controlled scientific conditions that you’re apparently unfamiliar with.

          Come up to present time!

          Reply

    • Yes, thats a good point: all theorethical. It contains “ethical” 🙂
      Born in catholizosm i got implanted to be honest, brave etc. This was a made for making functionable slaves. Hubbard refined that to a modern state.

      Reply

  21. What’s a human being worth?
    A small spot on a planet.
    What’s a planet worth?
    A small spot in a galaxy.
    What’s a galaxy worth?
    A small spot in an universe.
    What’s an universe worth?
    A small spot in human beings I.

    Reply

        • You are off the main thread Foolproof. Check your mind. His statement is based on Hubbard’s concept of theta. You are confused.

          Reply

          • Well, as it was all some idiot’s dub-in of dub-in anyway, that explains it. See the 2 Time Track and Engram Running By Chains HCOBs.

            Reply

            • Those HCOB’s are the most screwed up writings by Hubbard. Foolproof, everyone except you knows that Hubbard tried to explain Karma in his own way with this engram running and chains. The reason that it never worked is because Hubbard did not understand Karma or even electronics. People spend their entire lives in Scientology going earlier similar and delving into these chains and blowing things. No one has ever freed the thetan or gotten OT powers. That is because Hubbard invented his overt/motivator sequence from what he thought was Karma. Hubbard never studied any Eastern religion. He just thought that his e-meter could solve it all. Well, the ancient Jains in India followed a similar pattern and they are still stuck after 2,000 years. Scientology will be stuck even longer. You do OT III and run Incident 1and then 2. You are supposed to join the Sea Org because the chain has been erased. In reality, the mind does not work in that way. The entire idea of past lives does not follow the pattern established by Hubbard. Hubbard was just theoretical. He had no scientific proof. But we have proof. Thousands of us spent money and ran Hubbard’s commands. Guess what? Hubbard was wrong.

              Reply

              • Against my better judgement, I’m jumping in here to ask:

                Does anyone know what happens after body death?

                Can anyone state and give proof that we live again?

                That we don’t live again?

                Isn’t it true that we, each of us, are just going to have to FIND OUT?

                There are those who are sure we live again and again -0K! Maybe you’re right. Maybe we do.

                There are those who are vehemently opposed – OK! Maybe YOU’RE right. Maybe we DON’T.

                How can we argue about something that has never been PROVEN?

                Now, just because it hasn’t been PROVEN doesn’t make it untrue, you know! It MIGHT be true. But we don’t know! Yet!

                But one thing’s for damn sure – each of us is going find out, for sure, eventually!

                OK, good night 🙂

              • Well it seems you went by a MisU in the tape “Over-Motivator Sequence” – Hubbard said Kharma and the Overt-Motivator Sequence itself was an apparency and not actually a true fact. But surely you knew that? Surely? But then some thetans can believe any old nonsense, like your belief in the spontaneously combusting “OTVIII”.

              • Yes, he was wrong. Not in everything since a bit of “truth” goes a long way in building a scam. Our real lesson in scio was to discover the wrongness and to grow from that. Most of us continue to do so. What’s the point of a life lesson without learning everything from it that we can?

                As for Foolproof…well, he obviously knows everything there is to know about everything. How do we figure that? Why he tells us so!!! While also telling each poster’s response to him that they are wrong, they didn’t “get it”, that whatever was said was “proof” that they didn’t understand the subject. He’s living proof of his own “rightness”, obviously a good student of Hubbard. It must be fantastic to know more than anyone else now that Hubbard has left the stage. LOL

              • Aqua – The search for the Fountain Of Life should be resumed. When it’s discovered we can extend our lives for maybe thousands of years and annoy each other that much longer!

              • Wrong target, I think, FP. I don’t have MUs on this HCOB. I never listened to this tape as I never studied to be an auditor. I’m not sure what establishing past lives as an absolute fact has to to do with the Overt-Motivator Sequence. No doubt you do. I do understand what the Overt Motivator Sequence IS but given that I’ve never studied or read the bulletin in its entirety I can’t engage with you on it.

                I think what I wrote was simple enough in its meaning. Who knows for sure what happens after body death? Does anyone really know? I know that I don’t know. And karma? Ok, let’s call it that. I consider it CREATING. If I create something good, something worthy of me, I’ helping myself and others and the goodness comes back. Call it “karma” or call it whatever you like. A being is ALWAYS creating SOMETHING.
                Why not strive to make what one creates worthwhile? Its kind of hard for me to explain but I have a strong sense that every moment is a creation that someone is putting out there. Make of that what you will.

    • I might call Roger’s comment an allegory. It’s a unique and thought provoking way of expressing a concept, almost like a koan. I like it.

      allegory

      a representation of an abstract or spiritual meaning through concrete or material forms; figurative treatment of one subject under the guise of another.

      the root word is from the Greek, to speak so as to imply something other

      Reply

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