Leah and I were extremely happy to welcome our old friend Claire Headley to the Fair Game podcast.
Claire of course appeared in 2 episodes of The Aftermath — and she was recently featured on the Netflix home page:
I have known Claire and her husband Marc since I first went to the Gold Base — way back in the 80’s. Claire worked closely with Miscavige as an executive in Religious Technology Center. She was the Deputy Inspector General Internal. Claire helped me many times, she is one of the few people I know — especially at the international level, and even more specifically in RTC — who did not lose her humanity while in the Sea Org.
She was raised a scientologist and put into the Sea Org as a child.
All of her family have disconnected from her.
She and Marc have been whistleblowers about the abuses of scientology since before I began to speak out. Marc wrote an excellent book about his escape — Blown For Good:
We covered a broad range of topics about life as a scientologist, living at the Gold Base and working with David Miscavige.
Following are documents we mention I would put up here and some to illustrate things we talk about.
Here is the shot Claire talks about — the “RTC Reps” who are all female except one. And all white. (Claire is on the far left next to the lone male).
This is Claire, onstage in 1996 with David and Shelly Miscavige and some of these RTC Reps:
Greg Wilhere — Miscavige’s henchman who chased down Claire when she escaped from the Sea Org:
Claire’s SP Declare. Her “crime” was that she left the Sea Org:
And her “Freeloader Bill” — this for scientology services she was required to take for her job, that were provided for free in exchange for working full time in the Sea Org:
Warren McShane — the “professional liar”:
The McShane report to the Riverside County Sheriff’s Office after John Brousseau’s (JB) escape. As he makes clear, the normal staff at Gold were NOT in fact able to leave the property easily. JB had special privileges due to his position as David Miscavige’s personal handyman:
This is Marty Rathbun’s blog post about this report and about scientology lying, especially the unique “skill” of Warren McShane:
The Riverside County Sheriff’s report on Marc’s escape. He covers this in detail in his book. Note, he did not call 911, a witness did.
Muriel Dufresne (the name blacked out in the report, but identified in Marc’s book) from the Port Captain’s office at Gold tells the Sheriffs that “everyone was free to leave the property.” Yeah, right. A Shore Story. That’s why 4 people in the Security SUV chased Marc down the highway, drove him off the road and then tried to stop him from escaping (and subsequently followed the Sheriff escorting him until they were warned to leave):
Here is my earlier blog post Why Do Scientologists Lie? This covers the elements Claire talks about — “Acceptable Truth,” “Shore Story” and “Greatest Good for the Greatest Number of Dynamics.”
And another post entitled Scientology’s Lying Denials
To go along with this — these are excerpts from the FBI summary report following their 2009 investigation into human trafficking in the Sea Org. Note what they concluded about scientology’s lies outlined in yellow.
Excerpts from the Department of Justice sentencing memorandum (in the prosecution of L. Ron Hubbard’s wife and other senior scientology officials who all went to Federal prison):
Kirsten Caetano from the Office of Special Affairs:
Kevin Caetano, Security Gold, who put Claire’s broken leg in a “splint” rather than calling 911.
The South Park episode we talk about: “Trapped in the Closet”
Kendrick Moxon — scientology lawyer and father of Stacy Moxon Meyer who committed suicide at the Gold Base:
The Anderson Cooper series “A history of Violence” with the former wives of scientology executives (including mine) presenting a “shore story”:
A Happy Postscript:
Claire and Marc have built a wonderful life with 3 handsome sons. Our boys and theirs are best of friends, they’re the closest thing they have to cousins. Our families vacation together every year. This is a shot I took during the cruise we took in early 2020.
I’m almost done with Scientology and the Aftermath and can’t wait to start this podcast. Claire and Marc seem like very sweet people. I can’t imagine all they’ve been through and going through. Thank you Mike and Leah for all you’re doing. I wish the Tv show continued but glad there is a podcast. I pray my relative will wake up and leave one day. Also, wondering if you can cover what happened to Tommy Davis? Is he still in Scientology or has he left but is being quiet about it?
It was mentioned that that in scientology if you’re hurt in an accident it’s always the person’s fault. In one of the mission impossible movies Tom Cruise broke his ankle. My question is since he is the golden boy of scientology would he face any of the punishment others would if they got hurt in the same matter?
Such a good question. Wondering the same thing too.
Hi Mike rinder , loving the podcasts listening every week. I wonder if you could cover in one of your episodes what happened to Johnny Lewis as he had one of the most bizarre episodes before he died . I haven’t really seen much about it online and didn’t even realise he had died. This was surprising as I’m a sons of anarchy fan . Hearing clare talk about the terrible suicides that have happened made me think of asking. Always nice to hear clare and malk talk too lovely people and of course you and Leah you really are the best ! Recommended your show to lots of people 🥰
In a sense, Skyler I agree with you as well. A preplanned set “escape” is one thing…to KNOW you are going to DO IT on this day etc & then you are able to pull it off. NO, it was NOT easy….to be chased down by a pickup truck & literally FORCED OFF the road as if you are a rabid dog…horrifying.
For Claire to be smart enough to escape & then SIT DOWN in a public place where “the hounds of the Baskervilles pack” would NOT want to make a SCENE by trying to force you to leave with them….that took a lot of guts as well.
For Mary Kahn to suddenly GET UP & WALK OUT….WOW…the guts & strength of character THAT TOOK after her statement about “They Owned Me”….as I mentioned…took my breath away.
Sometimes in life we mull things over for a period of time, we feel adrift in an ocean of fear and doubt about are we going to do “the right thing”….then despite all our doubts the lightbulb goes on….& we know what we MUST do.
Sometimes we give a little…sometimes we have to give ALL we have to save ourselves since we cannot save someone who does NOT want to be saved. That takes guts.
Mary KNEW what she would be leaving behind….her son & extended family……to this day that pain is riveting to her & her husband.
If only someone could get across to Craig the TRUTH & how much he is loved & missed by his mom & dad….if ONLY he’d see……
Thank you to everyone who told & continues to tell their stories…..MORE AFTERMATH PLEASE A & E.
Very well said. I surely do agree that it would be great if A&E produced more seasons of “Aftermath”.
To be more specific, no matter who would produce it, I would think another season or two devoted specifically to the revocation of their ridiculous tax exempt status would make for great TV. Showing what they use the money they get using their TES would be wonderful because it would raise general awareness among all members of American government as to exactly what a terrible sham it is to give these criminals TES. I would love to see more Aftermath programs devoted to that single topic. I’m guessing that would make for great strides on the road to the revocation of their TES.
The IRS has nothing to fear any longer from these bullies. They just do not have the power to harass and intimidate governments like they once did.
In addition, i would LOVE to see the Billion Year Contract Exposed with more clarity…..& why MINORS have to sign this contract. Also more explanation of the CLAUSE ABOUT CARRYING FINANCIAL BURDENS for life for debts for “COS instruction/lessons”…..”freeloader bill”. If it was FREE why do you have to pay for it in the future?
How does one make it ok for a MINOR to sign such a contract…..& for them to sign a member up for numerous credit cards…..literally putting someone in debt for eternity.
A & E Aftermath series drew a large crowd….one can sit back at home and watch in comfort……Pod casts are great….for me I prefer the old TV Scree
PLEASE A & E….another Aftermath Series about Tax Exempt, Credit Card signing up, & carrying the heavy burden to pay for classes/lesson… How about those folks who PAID IN ADVANCE & either LEFT or died….WHERE IS THEIR MONEY???
Skyler….In regard to “The IRS has nothing to fear any longer from these bullies”….well in a sense the authorities often times end up with egg on their face as in the FLDS & taking the women & children away from the compound etc
UNLESS there would be absolutely NOTHING the IRS “has to hide” (& we know they do)….COS would have a field day. COS has the attorneys, P.I.s, moles, backstabbers & can well afford to totally embarrass & harass the IRS til the end of time. Dig up ONE PIECE OF DIRT on an IRS “higher up” & the clay feet of the IRS crumble.
No one wants to take on a religion….it took decades to bring the Catholic Church to it’s knees in regard to child sexual abuse.
One has to wonder just how many young girls & boys were sexually assaulted at the hands of an older or higher up “authority figure”.with in the realm of the bubble of COS…just how many young girls MIGHT have gotten pregnant from the ONE sexual assault & had to endure a forced abortion.
The IRS literally QUAKES when an investigation of a religion like COS is brought up……I don’t think it will ever happen..
Your post has left me with much to think about. I thank you kindly.
You’re welcome my friend! We had a run in about two decades ago with the IRS…..THEIR mistake. “Someone” had transposed one of our “numbers” indicating we had A LOT more income then we claimed.
Had to go to the IRS Office for an audit while THREE of their employees fought amongst themselves over the entire incident. Two KNEW they made a huge mistake & one refused to accept HE had made the error & he would not budge UNTIL everything was shown in black & white….two hours in.
Funny thing is my husband and I NEVER got an APOLOGY from them for THEIR GLARING ERROR………period…..
For the IRS to undertake a MASSIVE SEARCH into EVERY SINGLE piece of CHURCH RELATED Property that the COS claims IS Tax Deductible….would last longer than a century.
Add to that the charges for lessons/course/church related airline flights as church related tax deduction setc etc etc……my head spins just considering what it would take in TIME ALONE to “clear the deck”.
How about the “underground storage facility….hmmm….how would the IRS even GET into it to see what’s going on….
Incredibly important and wonderful insider “upper ranks” of Scientology’s top officials, just incredible.
The history of the “Int Base” and the ups and downs of the top staff, and their subordinates who worked side by side, saw the daily goings on, over the decades, from the beginning of the “int Base” to now, just a huge story of thousands of staffs.
Claire proves the case that nice persons hold the Scientology top ranks staff to staff nastiness (per the required Hubbard nasty rules, and those nasty rules exaggerated and used to dominate the lives of the staffs at the top to horrible extremes), there are so many side stories. Hubbard had a system, which never really got off the ground, but two staff positions “Staff Chaplain” and the “ESTO” (Establishment Officer) both those staff positions have a tiny tiny degree of sympathy and empathy to extend to the staff who are caught up in internal staff to staff injustices and the horrible stuff. But the “ESTO” and “Staff Chaplain” are more put upon to essentially be spies though, on the upset staffer’s condition and situation.
There really could be an extensive deeper dive into the cover positions within Scientology, that do, at the rare rare times that this did happen, and I talked with some senior senior Apollo vets, who did have contact with persons (even the horrible reputation Eugene Ingram as example) who acted decently to ex upset (horrible upset) staff who were senior privy and staff who knew the goods on Hubbard, knew the goods on all the horribly nefarious bad stuff that went on, even the durned nasty PI Eugene Ingram who for years did so much bad for Scientology, there were at least instances did appreciable “good”, I heard of the “good”, it’s a complicated story, but these backing down ,moment, on Scientology’s part or on the PI’s parts, have happened.
The give and take with Scientology’s organized behaviour that is so nasty about 95% of the time, those 5% times that Scientology (even Kirsten Caetano, I know, she was nice to me once or twice, but in the end she was a vicious wasp to me), other OSA staff were nice, the PI sent to me, was rather nice, but they have their script, they don’t push it, if they have been told not to push it with an ex staffer to cause more upset in some instances.
The long detailed story, I’ve always been interest in, since I went through the wringer, slightly and way way less than all normal ex Sea Org members (( was first gen Scientologist, 1975-2003, and then mostly was into the policies and rules and regulations of staff training, and “hatting” for all my decaes, and then the final position from which I “failed” dismally, was the ESTO position which I saw NO future in becoming that ameliorating person due to Barbara Ruiz would have had to be my chief person to ameliorate her behaviours and her lack of full Hubbard administrative training). It’s just a long long long detailed dismal life in Sea Org.
I love all these ex Int Base top RTC staffers, and Mark Headley just was the perfect ex top member to break open a huge dam. of new info about Int Base top life that fueled media and encouraged others to speak out for the whole 2000s, all leading up to the even bigger cheeses like Mike and Marty, “coming out” and telling history as they’ve thankfully done.
I’d love to come someday and and visit and download all my ASI years, inner stupid details. ASI staff had just such an easier life, ASI life was a perk privilege dilettante far far more compared to the Int Base much more connected to David Miscavige working staff.
Nancy Vasta says
Excellent podcast,as always.Claire appears to be a sweet and honest person.I am so sorry for what she and her husband were forced to endure while they were Scientology members.And they are still being harassed to this day.And the dear girl who committed suicide brought me to tears.This so called religion is an abomination.
Alice Schmid says
Am binge watching your and Leah Remini’s Netflix series. In season 1 episode 6, Claire headly says she joined Scientology at age 16, was in it for 30 years. That she then left and has had 3 sons, who appear to be about 10, 8 and 5 years old. Meaning she woud have been having children between the ages of 46 and 51.
Not impossible, but highly unlikely.
Could you tell me how old Claire Headley is?
Mike Rinder says
Not precisely — but mid 40’s I think. She was in the Cadet Org as a child in England. Not sure what the 16 is in reference to – perhaps when she had her first official post in scientology? Or when she met Marc? She was a scientologist her whole life, that is probably what the 30 years is in reference to. I thought there was something about her being in the Cadet Org by age 8…
Those SP declarations are hilarious, and truly are a badge of honor.
Hey Miscavige, notice how much happier everybody is once they are out of scientology? Just look at that top photo. Maybe you should leave too, and get that awful weight off your little shoulders. Maybe you can find some useful idiot to pin the blame of all the crimes you have committed over the years.
Lois Reisdorf (Lowie) says
Excellent podcast with Claire. I enjoy these so much and listen to them while I walk on Tuesdays mornings. I felt terrible about the Moxon daughter and her suicide, good to hear the full story. I just cannot understand how her parents are still in and Kendrick Moxon (father) is such a moron…having seen him at court hearings for my son…such an a…hole. I also feel awful for my sister who has been there at the Int Base since 1981 and what she has been through. This has to end…..thanks Leah and Mike for these.
The greatest shore story ever told (related by Bo W., early SO member):
A group from Mission Into Time , ashore searching for verification of LRH’s former lives in the Med, were approached by a local asking who they were.
Philip Quirino (it may have been) said they were a religious group planning to take over the World.
The man shrugged and left.
Rick D says
the podcast keep getting better and better Mike! Claire and Mark Headly Rock!…
Chocolate Velvet / Laurie Harness says
I’m looking forward to hearing this episode. I love Claire, she is such a kind, intelligent, courageous person. She is so good at talking about the policies and practices of Scientology, and her own experiences, in a moving and easy-to-understand way. I’ve had the pleasure of spending time with her, Marc, and their kids, and the strong love they share is obvious. It is great to see the beautiful family and good life they have made together in the aftermath of their time in the Sea Org. I think their stories of life in scientology, their escapes from Gold, and their life after would make a great movie. Marc is an amazing storyteller — anyone who has not read his book, get yourself a copy and dig in, it’s a great, funny and compelling read!
Thank you for speaking out. I’m even more grateful that finally the law is involved.
This IS human trafficking and false imprisonment. When watching the series, my first thought was “How could this happen?” My next thought was: “Ah, it’s the same dynamic as spousal abuse.” I was relieved to hear someone finally say that in the series. Battered/Abused spouses usually hear the same refrain: WHY DIDN’T YOU JUST LEAVE!?
Anyone who’s gone through it understands all too well that it’s not that simple. Go where? How (especially if the abusive spouse controls all the money)? How will I feed/house my children? Will I see them again? How will I not be captured and killed?
This scenario is all too relatable to scientology. Even more horrific, those born into scientology never have a chance to consent or a choice to leave.
After being indoctrinated while still a child, you should be proud that you had the wherewithal to escape and the courage to speak out.
Several of the things described are illegal, including intercepting mail and keeping passports. Those and the other sorts of high control measures listed in several of the reports, including the FBI’s, are classic signs of undue influence and even human trafficking – especially when taken together.
Those suggest starting points for the sort of needed legal and regulatory changes discussed over the last several days.
One other thing, is that since undue influence is more clearly recognized under the law when it concerns elders, because of the high likelihood of diminishing capacity, Scientology should be called to account for the increasing number of aging Sea Org members kept in abusive conditions.
Mary Snow says
Last week, I binge-watched all of Aftermath over a series of nights when my husband and our teen were sleeping. I’m so horrified by what I’ve learned, it’s hard to put my points into proper order.
Let me start here: I was moved by watching the pain suffered by Leah and Mike, and their guilt for being a part of an evil nightmare that hurt and continues to hurt so many others.
The fact that Leah, Mike and the majority of the brave Sea Org people who participated in the show were indoctrinated and brainwashed by scientology at such young ages – many, before they entered puberty – renders them blameless, in my opinion.
The human brain isn’t fully developed until around age 25. Which makes young people extremely vulnerable to negative programming by adult authority figures around them.
I have no doubt L. Ron Hubbard knew this because he studied psychology. Every method of conditioning he used to mentally seduce and control people is textbook psychology. And he also knew it was better to reel them in young when they were more malleable. Because psychological studies dating back to the 50s prove abused and neglected children will (1) cling to their abusers because they hold their life in their hands and (2) imitate them to gain their approval.
LRH knew this – it’s evident in the Cadet Org and Sea Org directives he wrote. And he kept these young people isolated from the real world, and declared psychology and psychiatry as evil, because if they landed in a true therapist’s chair his con game would be revealed.
And the best con merchants know this: you take a single truth and wrap it up in manipulative lies, people will accept it and believe everything you tell them. Because people resonate to the core truth in such profound ways they ignore the lies.
It is true we are hobbled by our traumas (in this lifetime).
It is true there is a spiritual component to the human experience (in this lifetime).
People resonate to these ideas because they’ve had experiences that confirm them as truths.
Drawn to the scientology promise that the “technology” will give them a rapid path to spiritual healing (clear), they sign on. The extra bonus is the promise of super powers which appeals to the dark side of the human ego (“I am special.”). But then LRH gradually adds layers of lies. And like the proverbial slow boiling of a frog by degrees, they believe the lies as well.
LRH was brilliant and a sociopath and the ultimate con man. Frankly, I don’t think David Miscaviage could have come up with the scientology con on his own because he simply isn’t smart enough. What he has in spades is the cunning required to build on the LRH con. However, I don’t think he’s thought it through to its logical conclusion.
Scientology will crumble and thanks to people like Leah and Mike, the failure process has been accelerated. I look forward to the podcast.
George M. White says
Mary Snow says
Thank you. What I see is LRH exploiting the natural desire to fully understand the human experience. Every culture dating back to the dawn of time seeks the answer to “Why are we here?” Among the first words children speak is, “Why?” Scientology isn’t the first “religion” to answer the question with a pack of manipulative lies. But it’s right up at the top of the list among the most destructive to the mind, body and spirit.
I went on a long quest to understand experiences I had starting in my teens that one could describe as spiritual or metaphysical. I studied a lot of world and indigenous religions, mysticism, myths, philosophies plus a lot of New Age “stuff.” By the time someone handed me a copy of Dianetics I was in my 30s and I could see it for the rip off it was. A smorgasbord of ideas swiped from here and there. I tossed it aside. But in my teens and 20s? I may have fallen for it.
A Sufi teaching comes to mind (paraphrasing):
The truth comes to earth in the form of a giant diamond. Upon entering the atmosphere it shatters into thousand of pieces strewn across the world. The seeker on his/her path finds a shard of this diamond and it’s so brilliant and breathtaking they believe they have found the entire truth.
No teacher. No guru. No church leader has the entire truth.
George M. White says
It took me several years to read Blavatsky’s two great books – Isis Unveiled and Secret Doctrine. Your post reminds me of her search. She ended up creating Theosophy after studying all religions on earth in the 1890’s. Her conclusions were never accepted and the movement split into numerous factions. Hubbard copied her but never gave her any credit. Hubbard probably never read her but some of his lectures are word for word out of her books. I think he just copied a section from her books when he needed a filler.
But I think Blavatsky illustrates the point about the shards. She found multiple clues and tried to put it all together, I still read Blavatsky and actually accept some of her occult work as valid.
George, I think Hubbard also had a lot of intermediate sources – Will Durant’s History of Philosophy, which he actually credits as if his knowledge of it is a sign of scholarship (it was used as a college textbook in his era), for example, and its summaries and interpretations, might have been the closest he ever got to the work of any actual philosophers themselves. And he could have perused some introductory or derivative work on Theosophy rather than Blavatsky herself who, as you apparently found out, is a challenge to tackle.
Plus I think it has to be kept in mind that Hubbard had co-authors, contributors, collaborators and even ghost writers whose role has been downplayed if not lost. It’s entirely possible, for instance, that all of Hubbard’s verbatim Blatavsky references were added by someone more familiar with her work, like his “never had” wife Sarah who is known to be his source for knowledge of Korzybski’s General Semantics. I’ve concluded that you can’t count on Hubbard having had direct knowledge of anything, and that he was such a lazy student and so discinclined to read sources himself that he had direct knowledge of relatively few things.
Hubbard cast such a devious spell – or, in modern parlance, recreated such a “reality distortion field” – that it’s all too easy to fall into giving him and Scientology some credit, when they deserve little if any, except of course for their persistent deviousness.
Hubbard had something to say about damn near everything so I have to give him credit for being “diversified”. How much he studied and how much was blowing smoke out of his you know what could be debated. To a newbie his “range of knowledge” would be impressive. Scn was presented as applying Western science to Eastern philosophy. Cool – I didn’t need to read a bunch of books – lol
Richard, I’d studied a lot of Hubbard’s sources on my own before ever coming across Dianetics Scientology, so I recognized where he was coming from – and never got very far into it as a consequence. I’ve since read quite a bit, and paid close attention such as to what one-time insiders such as Marjorie Cameron (Hubbard), Ava Berner (who along with Charles introduced the ideas of “study tech” and clay demos), authors Ray Kemp and Richard deMille (now-uncredited co-authors or ghost writers of works attributed to Hubbard), and others have had to say about Hubbard’s sources and study habits.
I think it’s pretty clear that Hubbard was quite crafty at spinning things he picked up from those around him into what might sound like deep knowledge and sagacity, but that he “studied” almost nothing himself other than possibly Crowley and, of course, the responses and reactions of his subjects and unwitting victims.
George M. White says
Agree. nice post.
I think a lot of people have a misunderstanding and equate the occult with devil worship or something like that. At least I did until I did some word clearing and further investigation. Here’s a simple definition from http://www.dictionary.com
1. belief in the existence of secret, mysterious, or supernatural agencies.
2. the study or practice of occult arts.
By that definition Christianity might be considered occult. Angels would seem to be in the realm of the supernatural.
Forty years ago when I was in scientology someone asked me if scientology was Satanic which of course I vigorously denied. Now I’m not so sure. Hubbard said powerful thetans could blow up planets which would be a nasty thing to do. You need to keep a perspective on it.
George M. White says
In my view, Scientology is fascistic. The extreme forms of fascism are Satanic. I think Hitler’s SS was basically Satanic.
Richard, having some familiarity with Crowley, Hubbard’s claimed “very good friend”, and knowing people well-versed in his work, I’d call Crowley’s and Hubbard’s occult ideologies, with their particularly cynical and egoistic emphasis on ends-justifies-the-means and might-makes-right points of view, along with dismissal of conventional morality and ethics, a sort of proto-Satanism. Plus, of course, there’s all the evidence from Hubbard himself as well as his son Nibs, that he considered himself a sort of modern incarnation of Lucifer, the Anti-Christ or the Beast 666 of Revelation.
The functional essence of Satanism as traditionally conceived, is lack of belief in god, plus amorality combined with ruthlessness and lack of compunction about doing harm to others, resulting in the commission of vile acts considered evil. Scientology basically fits that bill, though of course without promulgating an explict belief in Satan.
It’s no accident that the Church of Satan of Anton LaVey, a contemporary of Hubbard’s who also based his ideology in Crowley’s work, is considered a sort of sibling of Scientology by some scholars, as derivatives or offshoots of Crowley’s Thelema. LaVey and his CofS don’t actually seriously worship Satan, but rather practice principles such as Crowley’s ‘”Do what thou wilt” shall be the whole of the Law’ that form a sort of amoral libertine or libertarian ideology — but they tend to reject calculatedly doing harm to others, unlike Hubbard and Scientology. So ironically, in modern practice, Scientology is actually more evil than Satanism.
PeaceMaker – Good points here and above and thanks for the additional info. Probably few if any cults, Satanic or otherwise, have vicious written policies on how to attack and destroy critics. Just a short “ack”. 😊
Mary Snow says
I’ve read excerpts of Blavatsky’s work and others in the spiritualist movements of the late 19th and early 20th centuries. The focus on psychic phenomenon is indeed a tiny bit of that diamond in the Sufi quote I mentioned above.
Even Zen Buddhists confirm that psychic phenomenon is an experience on the road to enlightenment. However, they advise to ignore it as a side effect, a distraction. Far too many people get stuck there mesmerized by psychic abilities and phenomenon. I think Blavatsky stalled there. As others did.
Full disclosure: At one time I taught psychic development. Based on my experiences, it’s simply a higher level of basic intuition that’s usually opened up by meditation. Which happened to me. Thing is — it’s not that hard to develop if you simply build on your natural intuition. I was drummed out of my local New age community for making it look too easy. LOL. Like I said, it was a long journey for me and I did my New Age pit stop then moved on.
My opinion: a psychic cannot accurately predict the future. There have been studies that prove it. Because the future is not written in stone. It’s more like written in Jello that hasn’t become solid yet and if an individual chooses a different action the future changes. So, what is a psychic useful for? Telling you what you already know happened in your past. Sure, it’s kind of amazing that a total stranger can accurately say this or that about your past. But so what? I agree with the Zen advice: it’s a distraction of little value.
Of course, psychic phenomena leads to the topics of communicating with the deceased and past lives. I do not deny I’ve had experiences with both. However, I think there are too many and far too literal assumptions made on these topics. I have my own theories but it’s nothing like traditional metaphysical explanations. And I stress — these are theories. Unproved at that. At the end of the day, they’re all unproved theories. No?
Mary Snow – Some people witness or experience things which fit the category of metaphysical, paranormal or supernatural and some people don’t. Scientific realism wants to put all such things in the category of current or as yet undiscovered science. Maybe a scientific realist would concede to a vague concept like “higher self” which might be undiscovered possibilities of the human mind/brain. Probably not.
Mary Snow says
Well, I’m of the opinion everyone has the potential to have “metaphysical” experiences. People start having them as children and are told it’s just their imagination. So they eventually tune it out. Even basic intuition — they override the intuitive feelings they get and instantly forget them. Or, simply deny them. Or, dismiss experiences as just coincidences even as the coincidences pile up.
I want to stress that developing those abilities don’t make anyone special.
Or more connected to their higher self (I nitpick over the word “higher” as a value judgement but I wont go into that now).
Or closer to god than anyone else walking down the street.
Or even gifted. It’s not a special gift. It’s a natural ability some people put effort into developing.
I’ve known a couple of talented psychic-mediums who gave detailed and accurate readings (to me and I’m skeptical of 99% of them) yet they’re still con merchants who use that as a hook to exploit people for a lot of money.
Interesting though, after years of their con many lose their ability and lapse into fake cold readings until their careers peter out.
If anyone wants to amp up their natural intuitive abilities a few notches (like building up a muscle), even to the level of psychic, the first and hardest step is mastering meditation in a way that quiets monkey mind and puts the ego on a major diet.
Otherwise, a person thinks they’re getting “messages” from their “higher self” or deceased spirits when it’s actually a load of bloated ego fears and selfish desires and projection.
I highly recommend the Zen approach to mastering meditation and bringing the ego to heel. Once you get to that point those abilities open up.
BTW: on the topic of science, I’ve spoken with medical doctors and nurses who have had compelling experiences witnessing the moment of death. Why the science community continues to resist, I have no idea.
Mary Snow said:
Scientology will crumble and thanks to people like Leah and Mike, the failure process has been accelerated. I look forward to the podcast.
There was a song from the 60s (I think) that went something like this: “I’m so glad. I’m so glad. So glad. So glad. So glad!”
I think it may have been sung by The Hollies or maybe The Searchers or maybe The Ventures? At any rate, it just sounds so right to sing after reading this post.
Something worth remarking on is that a lot of people have published a lot of Scientology references and orders to show how lying and fair game and even murder are justified and even encouraged and required in Scientology.
This is not by accident.
Hubbard (and now David Miscavige) use the very, very old persuasion technique of repeating a message and giving variations on it, variations that are identical in meaning or similar enough to bolster each other.
A long, long time ago someone figured out that if you repeat a message and then use variations to communicate it it will be more effective in some cases then if you just said one thing one way, over and over.
There are various theories on why this is true, some people may already have, for example, a positive emotional association with a term that you want them to have a negative association with, so your message will be less effective with them if you only use that term but if you rephrase it or even reframe it with different terms it then may be effective with those people. Since you can’t know every single association that exists by varying your message you have a better chance that some of your terms will have the desired result. This is part of why certain companies that advertise their products have multiple different simultaneous television ads with different themes and messages. They are trying to get you to react as they desire to one or hopefully more than one of the campaigns.
By the time he studied rhetoric and hypnosis I am sure Hubbard ran into this idea.
By seeing all the many ways he encouraged lying and fair game we can see how important these activities were to Hubbard and how much they are core values and practices in Scientology.
The Rinders and the Headleys are a handsome foursome! Flourishing, prospering and looking good!
Flourishing and prospering without TWTH “precepts” and not flipping burgers at McDonald’s. How do you like them apples Dave?
The squirt likes his apples to be the same color as his money – IOW – green apples and green money. There is no more Apple Pie now because they had to get rid of all their apple baking pans.
As soon as one of their slaves tested positive for COVID, McDonalds had to shut down their outlet and sanitize all of the baking pans. So, no more Apple Pie. Instead they now offer Money Pie. There is no fixed price. Instead, you make a tax free donation to the Cult of Scamatology and for every thousand dollars donated, you get one piece of Virus-Free Money Pie. What a great deal!
Money pie is kind of like Apple pie but features the Apple Dumpling Gang on the front of every package. Do you remember the Apple Dumpling Gang? They were real cute hombres – even though they were kind of sickly looking. You know – COVID and all. So sad. They all died.
There was a time when these deserts were readily available. But now … what with the Apple Pan Demic, they can no longer cook pies in pans and so they had to modify their recipe to prepare Apple Pies wrapped up in dollar bills. They taste a little different. But for every thousand dollars you donate, you are saving one hundred lives. So it’s worth it. Isn’t it? You better say, “YES!” or else it’s off to the RPF for you.
Nancy Vasta says
Looking very much forward to listening to this podcast.Scientology has so many rules and regulations that it makes my head spin and confuses me.Hearing former members speak out help me understand a little better than reading everything.Having OCD myself,I can tell you I had nothing on LRH and some of his followers that write all these rules up.They all have big time OCD.
“Claire Headley, besides not upholding the ethical standards of RTC, failed to give me appropriate Christmas and birthday gifts. I could go on, but you get the point.” COB
Old Surfer Dude says
All right…all right. I’ll go and bring back a gift.
“Good boy. Don’t forget to CSW so you can get upgraded from Liability.”
Have you heard about the concept of a “Poster Child”? Well, Claire Headley could easily be a “Poster Lady” for just about any organization in the world and once people met Claire and got to know her, they would flock to whatever organization she represents – just so they could be close to Claire. Some people just have this magnetic kind of personality – like Claire.
Someone who is the boss of an organization would have to be out of their mind if Claire was a part of their organization and they didn’t make the effort to keep her. She is an incredibly valuable asset for anyone to have as a part of their group.
Mark is also valuable. He is an extremely personable guy and people just naturally flock to him because of his excellent personality.
A leader who once had these two as a part of their group and then allowed them to slip away has to have a screw loose – or many screws loose. But, of course, I think we already know that about the squirt – the leader of the scam. He has so many screws loose that I would have to guess that when they finally do an autopsy on his body and open up his head, they would probably find nothing but loose screws. I suppose he was eventually overcome by his mental psychosis and there was no longer anything left except for loose screws.
I committed heinous, evil crimes related to out tech, and got declared for it. When I eventually accepted that Scientology was completely unworkable, the subject was worthless, and my crimes were rendered meaningless.
Interesting. That’s similar to my story.
George M. White says
Scientology attracted many, many talented and impressive people that I met during my seventeen years. It was one of the main reasons that I stayed in and paid $120,000 for OT VIII. I never met Marc or Claire but I do remember dealing with dedicated members who were convinced of Hubbard’s claims about the thetan. Gradually this Church of Scientology eroded as the theoretical arguments were exposed and trashed. A $97,000 “Freeloader Bill” for Claire Headley is a complete farce. Hubbard did not even understand the basics of the human mind. Looking back I remember him as a below average person who made a little money early on and then lived comfortably while he researched his lies. The greatest gift from Scientology for me was that it could be used as a reference to find the truth in its opposite. Good luck to Claire,Marc, Mike and Christie. You are diamonds in the rough of Scientology history.
George says – “The greatest gift from Scientology for me was that it could be used as a reference to find the truth in its opposite.”
I have a similar point of view. Most of the introductory parts of scn seemed logical, a general discussion of human emotion and reaction with a multitude of topics. I don’t consider myself gullible or stupid for having participated. I was unaware of the rotten core of the organization. I only mention this since some scn fence sitters might not want to admit to their own (fill in the blank) but it’s not necessarily the case for everyone. It’s possible to sort out true from false and fact from fiction when you get out.
Bruce Ploetz says
Haven’t heard the podcast yet, could be this is covered.
However, if someone in OSA is reading this or someone stuck at the Int Base etc., you can very easily gain full access to the Internet on your crippled PC. Just turn off the proxy server.
One time I was in South Africa, trying to download a huge file for some software work I was doing. Got a call from Gloria Ida, the Internet dictator for all of Scientology. She told me to please turn off the proxy server, because all those multi-megabytes of download were bouncing from South Africa all the way to the servers in LA and clogging up the entire system across three continents.
Be aware, security is scanning all your IP addresses on the local network. As some who indulged in internet porn at the Int Base have found out the hard way, nothing you do is missed by Big Brother.
You could download a VPN and bypass all that, but they would detect that as well. They wouldn’t be able to track you, but they would know you are up to no good. Possibly a project for the last few days you are on the base, to get in contact with the Aftermath Foundation before you scarper for good.
“Bruce, how do I watch the porn without being detected?” Warren McShane
Old Surfer Dude says
How’s your hand, Scribe.
Old Surfer Dude says
Think about it…something with your hand. Old Surfer Dude
Sorry, you lost me.
Old Surfer Dude says
Hand going up & down…
Oh I see, you’re talking about your hand. Thanks for clearing it up!
Another thing to think about is to download onto a thumb drive an OS called ‘Tails’. This is an acronym for The Amnesiac Incognito Live System. It can be run from the thumb drive and leaves NO DIGITAL evidence it was ever used. It is an operating system and completely bypasses windows (or any other OS). It connects through Tor (The Onion Router). So you can do whatever you want and they will not be able to find out.
Here’s some info-
Tails – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tails_(operating_system)
Tor – https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tor_(anonymity_network)
So any of you UTR’s that are SO and are looking for a way to read all of the entheta out here this is a good way.
Onion Router? Onion Router?
Oh, please, can you explain about the Onion Router? I have never heard of it before and I’d certainly like to know about it. Can you explain how it helps with our security? Does it have anything to do with the humor web site called “The Onion”?
Can you explain briefly how it works and maybe why it’s called “The Onion”?
Can you recommend any good links to sites that explain about it? I know that I can use Google to search. But maybe you might know of some sites that are dedicated to explaining how it works?
I must say that on first brush, it sounds like it might be just a joke of some kind. Please can you tell us … is it a joke? Or is it real? Security is so important. I’d really like to know about this.
Oh dear! I am embarrased. I used Google to learn about The Onion Router. The initials T.O.R. represent The Onion Router. So I suppose that part of this is a small joke. But T.O.R. is no joke. It is an excellent piece of software that enhances security. Here are some links:
Tor and TAILS are how you get to the ‘Dark Web’ as well. An onion address exists only on the dark web not on the ‘clearnet’ which is the ‘normal’ internet. Onion addresses are almost untraceable. I say almost because there are a few people out there that could probably find out who is running what onion website but the odds are slim. There is no search engine for onions so you have to find an index of onion addresses. It is a deep, deep place to go and not for the newbie. There are things on deep net that are bad…real bad. BUT there are good things like a huge repository of ebooks for free. I mean millions of ebooks. There’s reporting coming out from behind the Chinese firewall that you will never see on the clearnet. Same from North Korea. You just have to know how to protect yourself. I always use Tor but it is NOT for downloading huge files nor for streaming. Tor is literally thousands of computers/servers/routers networked together to provide those using it with anonymity. Streaming and downloading slow it to a crawl.
The absolute best way to learn about both are to go to Reddit and join the subs for Tor & Onions & Tails. From these subs you will find many more. There is no need for VPN’s if you use Tor. If you go to the Reddit sub for Tor you will be able to read all about why VPN’s and Tor do not go together. If you don’t want to use Tor and want to do a lot of streaming and downloading get a VPN.
You can use Tor on the clearnet. In case I wasn’t clear. You don’t HAVE to go to the deep net. Tor is great to use just browsing the plain old web but it is not to be used with a VPN and it is not to be used for huge downloads and streaming.
Wow! Thank you ever so much for that info Linear13. I feel like my eyes have just been opened to a whole new world.
Since Bruce has mentioned the term “VPN” (Virtual Private Network) in his above post, I think it is important for someone to explain that VPNs are very important and for almost everyone who comes to this blog, running a VPN would be an excellent idea.
Without going into much detail, let me say that you can search the Net for “VPN” or “What is a VPN” or “How does a VPN work” or “How important is it for me to run a VPN”.
A VPN provides an important first level of security that prevents “Big Brother” from spying on what you are doing on the Net. You must pay for a VPN but they are very inexpensive. I pay about $2 to $3 per month (but you pay for a year or two in advance). For the amount of money they cost, they are one of the very best and most important kinds of security that anyone who uses the Net can run.
I have no affiliation to any brand of VPN. There are many sites on the Net that explain about VPNs and compare several of the best products. But for the cost involved, I strongly urge everyone here to subscribe to a VPN because it can protect you from the most common kinds of invasion into your privacy.
Given this scam’s propensity to engage in “Fair Gaming” and other hideous practices, a VPN is easily worth the small cost. It won’t protect you from every kind of invasion of privacy. But it is a very inexpensive way to protect you from many of the most common kinds of invasions of privacy.
P.S. The first time you subscribe to a VPN service, you may have to pay around $5 per month. But as your subscription approaches the expiry date, the VPN service seems to become frantic to try to get you to renew your subscription and they start sending you notices and offer you reduced rates to renew. About once a year, they offer extremely low prices to renew providing you renew for 2 or 3 years in advance. I suspect that almost everyone who runs a VPN takes advantage of these very low price sales and they pay around $2 to $4 per month (but they pay for one or two years in advance).
Bottom line? No matter what they charge, I would never use the Internet without using a VPN at the same time.
And don’t worry. They are not at all difficult to set up and install on your PC or your phone. I have never used one on my phone. But if you need help, the companies have Support Departments and they are very helpful and answer your questions whenever you have any difficulty.
Please find out a little bit about VPNs and please believe me they are really important to run on your PCs.
I seem to recall the links to your podcasts are available on Mondays. But I have tried many times to find the podcast with the Headleys to no avail. I have two links to two different sites that seem to have worked in the past that allowed me to hear the podcasts. They are:
But neither one seem to be working today to link to the current podcast. Perhaps I’m not using the correct links? Or is there something you can tell us that will help us link to the correct site?
Mike Rinder says
It goes live at midnight EST Monday. I will include the link here when available.
Is there anything known WHY most of the RTC reps are female? I assume it has to do with DM’s size and that females are in general smaller than males and with DM’s dramatisation of his Napoleon complex.
Mike Rinder says
We discuss this on the podcast
I am just guessing of course. But my guess would be that it’s a question of his ego-maniacal nature. It makes him feel important and desirable to be surrounded by pretty young females.
Before he muscled his way into being the boss, I would guess that he would get told to “Piss Off!” about twenty times every day. All of these pretty young females might well be his way of assuaging his mind that he is truly important and desirable to females.
If you think that executives like Havey Weinstein take sexual advantage of many of the young and beautiful female actresses that he encounters, just take a guess what the squirt does in the privacy of his private quarters. The mind boggles at the thought.
Hear, hear! This is one of those chunky, fact finding posts from Mike that is difficult to digest. The chicanery and dark deeds. As a newly-out, the revelations are stunning.
However, the after and present scene—here, we have beauty; here, we see joy. We see confidence, fulfillment, warmth and a beauty of purpose: Claire and Marc, Christie and Mike.
It is remarkable what you four, and so many others have endured and lived to tell the tale.
Thank you for this post, and Congratulations to you, Leah, the entire A&E team on the continued success of the “Aftermath” series. Plus, so many of us are enjoying the Leah & Mike “Fair Game” podcasts.
I’m curious if scientology can enforce collections on the so called amount owed. Revenue agent here with gobs of experience. I would toss their bill in the trash.
Mike Rinder says
They cannot. The leverage they use to get people to pay is: only once the bill is paid can you get back into “good standing” and be in contact with Scientology friends and family.
“Goddamnit, can’t any of you incompetent motherfuckers put a stop to this Rinder rubbish? What do I have to do, wipe your ass while you’re taking a shit?”
David Miscavige briefing OSA staff
Mike Rinder says
I take it you have been to one of his “briefings”. You have it down perfectly
Fortunately not, although I’ve met him a couple times. I extrapolated from what I’ve gleaned from various accounts of the pope of pomp. 😊
Dotey OT says
I have just started watching Aftermath with my significant other, we are both now out for almost four years. We both have stories, but nothing nearly as crazy as Marc and Claire. When I see pics of their families, my heart sings!
I am hopeful that we are all seeing the end of this horrible cult getting nearer and nearer.
It is posts like yours that help to hasten the demise of this cult.
The more that people read about the terrible experiences that others have suffered in this misery, the more they will spread the word to people to avoid this cult like the plague.
Please come back and tell us about your experiences. That will be a big help to put an end to all the suffering.
These people are proof that you can’t brainwash the good out of people. They are good people who had enough courage left in them to stand up and be the best self’s that they could be.
Off topic again: When in the hole for months and years how did they get a hair cut, clean clothes, the basic needs? I ask because Shelley Miscavige has been held for 15 years. If she hasn’t had a hair cut in 15 years her hair would be down to her butt. If she was taken to town for grooming etc. there is a way to reach her. Also can we send her a Christmas card, I would like to let her know that her husband (who still claims to be a caring loving and devoted husband) is worth $50 million. She is entitled to half in the state of California. We could let her know what has happened. Even if someone else is reading her mail, they would be informed about the outside world and may become curious enough to question their actions. Good people with a drop of courage can do good things.
David Miscavige has EVIL etched so deeply on his face that a billion years will not erase what he has done. They say EVIL is a suppressive person.
Bruce Ploetz says
Barbara, generally there is someone around with clippers to keep the hair decent. A sort of cottage industry at every Sea Org installation I have ever visited.
Of course Shelley is no longer officially “in the Hole”, she is sequestered at an isolated compound in the San Bernardino Mountains. The staff there have access to basic needs, but she is escorted whenever she leaves the compound.
If you want to send her a card, send it to 6331 Hollywood Blvd. Los Angeles CA. I forget the suite number, but the Security folks who open all the mail will know what you mean. Unfortunately they will probably also throw it in the trash unread, despite the illegality of tampering with the US Mail.
Everyone who lives at the Int Base and in other secure “secret” compounds all over California use this address. I used it for 20 years.
Zee Moo says
The best revenge is living well. Enjoy life all you exs.
Jens TINGLEFF says
I was just about to comment that the most important photos were the first and the last, showing how people can have a great life, once they escape the prison of the mind enforced by the criminal organisation known as the “church” of $cientology
Gordon Weir says
Claire and Marc are such likable people. Marc is a very entertaining story teller. Despite being fair gamed they have found a life of love, success and happiness. Hopefully their disconnected loved ones will soon see the light.
I would love to read Claire’s book. I mean to say, I would love for Claire to write a book detailing her experiences in the cult so that I could read it.
Claire’s stories were just terrific. I will never forget her story about how Marc learned she could cook Spaghetti Bolognese. One of the best stories ever.
Look at those two stunning smiling happy couples! Two hot babes & two handsome dudes with a life now filled with laughter, fun, smiles & raising sons to be the people they SHOULD be!
So glad for everyone!
Sadly brainwashed to obey without question, to lie through their teeth, raised without love or sense of real security, this is the ONLY thing they know. Again, no Critical Thinking…..it’s banned…..forbidden…spoon fed this pap from birth….to know nothing else is a crime in itself.
jim rowles says
Both couples and families are beautiful.
I wonder of the cult could get the concept that the TRUE happiness rundown consists in: Walk out of a cult. Find a job. Get a purpose. Get a spouse. Have some family. Have some great friends. Happy. Happy. Happy!
Mary Kahn says
Can’t wait to listen to this.
Blown For Good should be a made-for-TV movie. It was an eye-opening read for me on my way “out the door.”
I’m very happy I had the privilege of meeting Claire; I find her a singular individual. That first picture above is from the Emmy’s when Leah, Mike and their show The Aftermath won for Season 1 and it was the Headley’s episode in my opinion that was the most riveting.
With Mary Kahn, I do agree. Marc’s story is one of those “made-for-TV movies,” including his middle school years where he was for all intents and purposes homeless and had to keep “couch surfing” and making his way. Claire’s childhood years are similar, as she was constantly parentless (in the Sea Org) and, like Marc, fending for herself—both of them, nutritionally as well. No limits to the carelessness.
What gets made “normal” and is justified never ceases to amaze.
Congratulations, Marc and Claire, for the success you are!
I watched the Aftermath on A&E, and your story touched on me deeply. I again saw the episode on Netflix (I’m watching again to keep the ratings up!) again, and again you touched my soul. I could see and hear your pain, and I hope you will get to see your son again soon! I hope someone slips him the episode and he sees your anguish and it wakes him out of his slumber! I was thinking of how you are doing now, and wondering if you ended up going back because of your son. As hard as it must be, I am glad to see you on here and staying away from what hurt you so much. Maybe you should do a podcast so others know how you are doing, and so they can see how strong of a woman you are.
I hope the best for you
Mary Kahn says
Thank you. I am doing fine. While I suffer from the loss of my son I am very happy to be free from the church of scientology.
The truth took a wrecking ball to my life but better that, rise up and figure out who I am than stay in the church and be owned by them.
I appreciate your kind words and sentiments. ✨💫✨
Old habits are hard to break but in my written comments I now write cherch rather than church. Sometimes I use the organization but usually not the cult.
“scn” is also a good shorthand.
“They owned me”….that was the lynchpin statement for me. Took my breath away completely. The pain of anyone stating that to this day is incomprehensible to me….my head spins every time I see the look on your face when you made that statement. Broken hearted but NOT broken down….your strength of character would not LET THEM do that to you. To get up, walk out, what an amazing woman you are.
My heart aches for you & your husband…..so sad, yet you are not alone in the pain as others carry the same burden of loss….of guilt for “putting their kids in this”…..
I pray with all my heart & soul your son receives a wake up call one day soon….that he is back in the loving arms of his OWN family. That same prayer goes for everyone else whose extended family remains locked in.
Can’t force someone to leave who doesn’t want to leave or is too afraid or brainwashed to leave. We can only hold out hope that somehow someway someday they all come to their senses & see the truth.
Until that day arrives…..& it is something to look forward to, we must continue to hold on to hope.
Mary Kahn said:
“Blown For Good should be a made-for-TV movie. It was an eye-opening read for me on my way “out the door.”
“… it was the Headley’s episode in my opinion that was the most riveting…”
I do not like to disagree with Mary Kahn. But in this case, I feel the need to say that although the Headley’s episode was truly riveting, it cannot compare with Mary’s episode. When I watched Mary’s episode and heard her describe the torture she was forced to endure while she had to watch these monsters destroy her family, the pain she suffered was like nothing else I had ever before seen. When it was over, I felt as if someone had taken a baseball bat and whacked me right between the eyes.
When the public has finally had enough of these monstrous cults and they decide to put an end to these monstrosities, IMO, it will be Mary’s story that will be at the forefront of the struggle because no other story ever documented the incredible pain and suffering that our mothers have been forced to endure for the sake of these incredible monsters wanting to make a few dollars. The leaders of this scam belong in a penitentiary cell and they do not deserve to ever be released. IMO, it is perfectly clear that they deserve to spend the rest of their stinking lives there.