We welcome Dr. Willy Rice, Senior Pastor at Calvary Baptist Church in Clearwater to the podcast. Willy has been one of the few community leaders who has taken a strong, public stance against the abuses of scientology. We talk about the influence of scientology in the community and the lie that you can a Christian and a scientologist.
Below are the documents we talk about in the episode.
The infamous OT VIII document scientology claims is a forgery that contains the following passage:
[T]he historic Jesus was not nearly the sainted figure has been made out to be. In addition to being a lover of young boys and men, he was given to uncontrollable bursts of temper and hatred that belied the general message of love, understanding and other typical Marcab PR. You have only to look at the history his teachings inspired to see where it all inevitably leads.
My earlier posts on Christians v. scientology:
Can Scientologists be Christians or Jews Too?
L. Ron Hubbard on Christianity
I’m a Christian and I’m also a Scientologist
Scientology, Christianity and the IRS
The briefing documents Willy prepared for members of his congregation and other christian leaders in the community.
Scientology- A Christian Response to Scientology
Lawrence Wright’s watershed Going Clear: Scientology, Hollywood and the Prison of Belief
Stefani Hutchinson’s blog on Ray Cassano where she quotes him as saying in a public meeting of the Clearwater Downtown Development Board: “Most Scientologists are Christian”
The Public Image PL laying out how to ally real churches and other organizations.
Here are some scientology price lists — for the Flag organization in Clearwater:
The Hubbard quote on God:
“The Eighth Dynamic is really infinity stood upright. And it simply means infinity. Now, you can come along and say, ‘Well, you also mean the Supreme Being?’ No, we don’t particularly mean the Supreme Being. How do we know that you aren’t, collectively, the Supreme Being. See? That’s probably much more closer to truth. There are gods around of various kinds. There are some wind gods over in India; there are various savage gods of one kind or another. But if you give them a good quizzing you find out that they’re just a thetan and they behave most remarkably like you would if you hadn’t thought that you ought to lay aside all the power you had, too.” — L. Ron Hubbard, October 19, 1954
I’ve watched every episode of the show & started watching it again on Netflix. Currently listening to the podcast!
Loved this episode. As a Christian, knowing the unconditional love of Christ, my heart always hurts for the stories & experiences of the former Scientologists featured on the show & podcast & for the people still in, too.
The mental & emotional trauma their “religion” has caused them is pure evil. My heart goes out to the children most of all. They have no choice. Keep up the good work! You’re making a difference!
Mary Kahn says
One of my favorite interviews. No one had to “stop the presses” to explain something. My favorite was listening to Pastor Willy define what is a Christian. It so easily and honestly flowed off of his tongue. Ask a scientologist what a scientologist is and I don’t believe you can get an honest answer.
While in this group, I would have answered it this way: “Well, a Scientologist is someone who believes that man is basically good and works on improving himself and his life through scientology principles in order to help mankind and to be an ethical, productive member of society.” I believed that once until I discovered through the way I was treated (and then later discovered others were treated) by the “church” that not only did it NOT believe I was basically good but also was doing its best to extract as much money as possible through fraud, deceit and lies to enhance ONLY the life of david miscavige via “The Church of Scientology.”
Now a days someone in the church of scientology has to actively look away to not know the truth about this vile group. There is too much out there in the way of blogs, books, internet, documentaries/series. There are too many empty buildings, so few members to not know that something is wrong.
One of my favorite people turned out to be Henry Steel Olcott. Born in 1832 he served in the Civil War and then became Elena Blavatsky’s business partner. Recently, a statue has been erected to him in Sri Lanka in honor of his work in improving schools. Hubbard never met the Colonel but it turns out that Olcott’s students corrected too late the translations used in OT VIII after Hubbard’s death. So Miscavige ends up today with a totally false religion not based on any truth. It is ironic to see Hubbard finally defeated by a Civil War Colonel.
Honesty, decency, humility, compassion, understanding, forgiveness, acceptance.
Christian or not, these are values that I associate with.
Apparently the opposite of Scientology values.
Ask me how I know.
I think the thing to do with these “Christian” Scientologists is to ask what Church they belong to and where they attend.
Bruce Ploetz says
Well, Mike, I never got to any OT levels in my 40 years in Scientology so I considered that I could be a Christian and a Scientologist.
You know the weasel words: Hubbard supposedly discovered the basics underlying all religions, there is some tape where Hubbard said you could be a good Christian and a Scientologist, Scientology has a cross and a church or chapel…. Sunday Service!. What’s special about a Sunday in Scientology? In the Sea Org at the Int Base that was the day to do your laundry in the morning.
So I went along being as “good” a Christian you can be if you never share communion and swear like a sailor constantly. Nobody told me I couldn’t pray for deliverance from Dave.
Willy kind of dances around the terminology but it is quite correct to call Scientology satanic. Remember Genesis 3:5, the “serpent” tempting Eve to eat the fruit of the tree of knowledge:
Those who promise you godhood are friends of Satan. Pretty simple.
So you understand I never heard the “Jesus was a pedophile” line until I was out of Scientology. But Hubbard didn’t invent or discover the idea. There is a hint of it in Matthew 14:51 according to some, but the evidence is pretty weak. Really this idea comes from a fragment of parchment apparently discovered in a library. Known as the “Secret Gospel of Mark”, there is a lot of dispute about its veracity. More information here https://apologeticspress.org/was-jesus-gayan-examination-of-the-secret-gospel-of-mark-1431/
Really the idea is just a cheap shot by Hubbard. The idea of unconditional love, or really love of any kind, is incomprehensible to a malignant narcissist. So it all has to be fake or feigned or disreputable. That’s why he didn’t put it on his “Emotional Tone Scale”. He didn’t get it.
Mike Rinder says
You always were the smartest guy in the room.
“You have only to look at the history [Jesus’] teachings inspired to see where it all inevitably leads.
Well, first and most obvious – I thought Jesus was an implant. In which case, how can he be anything? There should be no “be” involved here at all, if he never existed.
Second, in re that quote – using that logic, Scientology “inevitably” leads to EST, or for that matter Charlie Manson. He studied Scientology, and look what that got us.
*BREAKING NEWS* Mike Rinder and Leah Remini responsible for Covid-19 world-wide outbreak after
publishing confidential OT Scamology materials that the world was not ready for…….
Insane cult leader L. Ron Hubbard warned of this in his “Scriptures”……..
“You have only to look at the history his [Hubbard’s] teachings inspired to see where it all inevitably leads.”
Wow, how correct! A history of violence and human rights abuses is what Hubbard created by his “teachings”.
The worst part is the cult pretending on their propaganda websites they are so super ultra religious and sanctified.
I’m sorry, but Hubbard is such a piece of shit.
One has to be a carefully mentally edited mind to be a dual Christian Scientologist, and you have to. be allowed to be in that dual mindset, I have seen it, in fact I allowed a Christian woman who pleaded to be allowed to go to Catholic Mass on Sunday, who was a student in the exec trainee courseroom in the HGB Building on Hollywood Blvd, she was my student, I was her Course Supervisor.
On my authorization alone, I let her go to Catholic Mass, Sunday morning. She was Berlin Org staff, training to be in the Dept of Special Affairs unit in Berlin Org.
I let her go to Mass, and while others prior to me would not let her go to Mass, I knew the policy, and decided it allowed her to go, so that was it. I could out argue even the RTC Cram Offs my policy knowledge even to this day rivals anyone’s in the movement today.
Anyways, there are loopholes Mike, and there will be, I witnessed myself, who are on staff even, who still wish to do some of their former religion or even former practices, like yoga.
I just let them, with the thought that later, once they get up the Hubbard quackery stepladder they’ll quit their other religions though.
How far did Alfredie Johnson get, as a Christian minister, he surely must have had some second thoughts about either Jesus or about Scientology, once Alfreddy began running past lifetime incidents in doing his Scientology auditing. Did Alfreddie get up to OT 3.
Have any of the Nation of Islam Scientologists gotten up to OT 3?
Zee Moo says
$cientology should use the old Roman Janus as its symbol. Both are two faced.
Jere Lull says
scientology has as many faces as it thinks it takes to pull the wool over its marks’ eyes. Two is about par for each subject. Gives them deniability. They can point to something like the “Creed”, which is generally ignored, and say “Hey, we have lofty ideals.” as they do exactly the opposite in their dealings with everyone, even (or particularly ) fellow scns. Those of us who were taken in by the good-sounding empty rhetoric of the public proclamations lived to rue the days we were taken in by the scam. The problem is that we, being honest and honestly wanting to help others, could not conceive that they could spout these lofty goals (as if they actually held to them) were lying through their teeth with straight faces and REALLY were only concerned about grabbing the maximum number of dollars from the available public (a/k/a “raw meat”) and that the promised gains were worse than illusory; they didn’t exist except in our own minds, maybe, someday, somewhere over the rainbow, OZ-style. And when we asked what happened to them, we were lied to and told the *next* level/grade/intensive would do the trick; but it never did deliver and we kept on hoping, believing despite all the evidence against it. As honest innocents, we couldn’t conceive that “they” could be so relentlessly dishonest.
Many faces indeed. Wrapped in zillions of “body-thetans” with all their faces, it’s enough to cause a mental meltdown if taken seriously and actually attempted to be believed in full, the Hubbard Xenu’s “body-thetans” infesting all humans requiring only Hubbard’s Ot 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 exorcism levels today, to fix all this mental leakage one supposedly experiences due to one’s massive infestation of “body-thetans” which are all due to Xenu.
it’s all on Xenu, really, if you believe Hubbard, for what is the most devastating “case” debilitating bad stuff humans suffer. Just hooey.
Mark Kamran says
One point this which is never discussed
All the main stream religion ( Judaism, Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Sikhism, Buddhism) religious text are available free of cost on internet or you can buy books , which only covers the painting cost.
The tax exemption status of main stream religion is due to fact that they are involved in providing services with out any cost,
that’s why the State , exempted their revenue ( donations) from income tax.
So why pay-as-you-go type entities given religious status ?
Mark Kamran says
The conspiracy theories prevalent in 40’s and 50’s are significant part of it.
And they never thought going beyond 50 years , a common life cycle of Cults.
Since beginning of this millinimum they are getting closer to their Expiry Date. .
L. Ron Hubbard: “There was no Christ!”
Vyonne E Scheiwe says
Thanks for the link. I was going to point this out that LRH denies the resurrection of Christ. Therefore you cannot be a Christian and a Scientologist.