There are a few of these “briefings” that say nothing at all from the ED’s who have returned from Flag.
Clearly things are NOT going according to the Master’s masterplan. These ED’s including those all the way from South Africa, flew to Flag, spent 8 DAYS being briefed (most of which was sitting around doing busy work waiting for Miscavige to free up an hour from reading the internet to pay them any attention) and then when they could not hang around any longer, He sent them home with some brilliant orders to get everyone enthused and “through the Basics.” Meanwhile their tech staff are still at Flag, waiting to be able to leave, racking up more food and accommodations bills on top of what they have been charged for their “training.” GAG II flounders around like a ship without a rudder. What a well-oiled machine this isn’t… Perhaps Dave need a bit of oiliness table drilling?
But here is what is really astonishing. How they are positioning GAG II. Of course the thing He CAN say is that THIS is now totally on Source and doing things “the way Ron wanted.” Gee Dave, doesn’t anyone ever notice that you have been saying that for 20 YEARS, every new release is NOW the way Ron wanted…. when does anyone go “Hey, wait a minute, why have you been having us do it the way Ron DIDNT want it for the last 17 years?”.
BUT, according to Dear Leader, the first step of doing things the way “Ron wanted” is for everyone to get through DAVE’s Basics.
Really? I have read a LOT of traffic from LRH about the Academy Levels and routes up the Bridge. Not ONCE does he ever mention studying all “Basics.” That term itself is invented by Miscavige when he decided he wanted to sell a bunch of his new books and made the brilliant “evaluation” that the “problem with Scientology is that nobody is really a Scientologist.” Thus, everyone had to study the entire track of development of the tech, including the lecture series. That developmental track includes an enormous volume of techniques that are no longer used. If you are really talking about “How Ron Wanted It Done” there is one overriding datum about training up to the Briefing Course. LRH was extremely forceful about limiting what was to be included on each Academy Level. From the sound of it, the new GAG II Academy Levels will be “streamlined” but He has come up with a new way of sabotaging it. In order to get ONTO the “streamlined” GAG II Academy levels, you have to plow through “The Basics.” This is like promoting how you built a new superfast car to win a race, but you require the driver to run for a mile with a two hundred pound ball and chain around his ankle before he is allowed to start the race.
And the suckers just lap it up.
This is batshit crazy.
Scientology is becoming more and more like Christianity. Christian faithful are kept on the hook with the promise of heaven and the pearly gates and reuniting with loved ones and sitting at the feet of Jesus and God. Scientologists are kept on the hook with the “next big thing” (whatever it is) that will bring “heaven on earth” i.e. “making planetary clearing a reality” and “accelerating our expansion beyond anything you could ever imagine”. This same shtick has been used for The Basics and Ideal Orgs, and GAT 1 and GAT for OTs and the Quantum Emeter and the FART Div 6 and the Scientology Ad campaigns and the Dianetics Intro Route and, and, and, and… It’s always the “next big thing” that will make our fading hopes come true.
And just like heaven — there is not a scintilla of evidence that the future promise will be kept. It is simply blind faith.
Blind faith is not wrong. Not unless you pretend what you are selling is NOT faith and it is provable and workable in the here and now. Which IS what Scientology claims.
Unfortunately, the subject has devolved from a study that at least in theory was supposed to be based on knowledge, logic and understanding to a subject based almost entirely on faith — belief in provable lies. Even contradictory things with no apparent recognition of the cognitive dissonance. Scientologists these days act like fundamentalist christians who believe earth was created in 6 days despite all scientific evidence to the contrary. If they are told they are “clearing the planet” they are absolutely certain it is the gospel truth.
Albert De Beer is a very nice man. His heart is in the right place. Unfortunately, he has lost his mind somewhere along the way. Believe me, there are more and more people who cannot keep ignoring the obvious. This ship is sinking fast. Captain Miscavige may still be standing on the Bridge yelling out orders and announcing “full speed ahead” but there are a lot of crew and passengers who are looking over the railing at the gaping hole in the side and seeing people in lifeboats paddling away. They are hearing the reassurances, but looking at the reality and increasingly they are grabbing life vests and making the leap.
Plenty of checksheets exist approved by LRH before his passing. So what else would LRH want?
This is a very interesting post and resultant thread for me. It’s given me an opportunity to look at my own personal views of ‘religion’. Organized Religion. It was somewhat of a dirty word for me before I got into Scientology and now that I have no use for the current ‘church’, though still consider myself a Scientologist, I am back again of the same point of view. I wish Scientology never became a religion or a church. I used to cringe at the idea of coming to sunday service, etc.
Just looking at the comments here – who’s the most holy, who’s religion does more good, who is closer to the truth, who will be saved, etc, etc. All the framework of building a good little cult. Every one of them.
In the early days, LRH was the ultimate rebel. Exciting, adventurous times – the freedoms which were possible!
Church and religion and all of the crap which came with the conservativeness of the ‘cross’ of religion. It should have stayed an adventure.
Cat daddy says
Universal truth: The onley certainty in life is change
Noni Mause says
Mike, I’m a fan of yours and you’re kind of a scary guy so normally I wouldnt say anything but something you said today ticked me off. Many religions comfort adherents with promises after life after death. scientology is the only one that makes you mortgage your house in order to pay $1000p/h to ‘talk’ to your local ‘priest’ about salvation(!). Yes, Christianity is responsible for a world of hurt, but it also provides many charitable services. As far as I’m aware, scientology does not provide a single charitable (ie free or low cost) social service – no soup kitchens, no low cost housing, no food vouchers – and donating bl**dy free LRH books to libraries does not count as a social service. If I’m wrong about this I’m sure you’ll reeducate me in your usual inimitable style, but if not, as far as i can tell if scientology became more like Christianity it might be actually be a frikking good thing! (And BTW I’m not a Christian myself).
Mike Rinder says
I agree with you 100%. Not sure what ticked you off about anything I said, but I dont expect everything I write to be perfect or agreeable to everyone. I try not to deliberately diss innocent bystanders, but it seems that any comment about other religions causes offense to someone.
Calvin B Duffield says
Mike. Kudos and congratulations are due to you. Firstly, on your continued growth of this blog and secondly,(presumably) your own personal growth as a result of embarking on such an undertaking. To add to what you have underscored above, (you try not to deliberately diss the innocents) you DO however, have the right to clarify their misduplications of what you actually intended and hopefully, then understand!!
It is undoubtedly a delicate balancing act, where your ‘best’ judgement is always tested.
Your sense of humor, IMHO, is one of your best weapons against the attacks which have tended to arise from the ‘unhinged,’ or overly serious critics, who themselves, seem to have lost sight of that all time ‘best medicine’ for ‘seriousness-itis,’ their own innate, (but buried) sense of humor!
So all I’m trying to say here, is, just to lighten up a bit, you poor (inflowing) souls. Life CAN be a lot more fun, if you just have a good ol’ laugh (outflow) now and again 🙂
Gayle aka TroubleShooter says
What’s stunning is that Albert is the ED of an org that supposedly went St Hill Size isn’t he Mike? and if memory serves – the temporary false high staff became but a handful and the org rolled up like the red carpet after the Emmy’s. How could such a good hearted man whose lived so long not have gained some wisdom???
Wendy M says
Yes Gayle – Albert who is actually SO on org staff, was (and still is) the ED of Joburg Day when it went Saint Hill Size in 2005. Things were humming for a while back then , but as time wore on they have gone into the red financially, gave a lot of fundraised money to Durban Org, had to put in a new Div 6 after the fact of going St Hill Size, the Universe Corps came and left with few products (Albert was the first to get his CCRD – but who knows whether that was cancelled or not along with everyone else), and the staff fluctuates at around 40 – 46 staff. To me (and perhaps I am evaluating for him – sorry), Albert is desperate and sad. I am no auditor, but isn’t “sad effect” from an ARC break gone on too long? He can pull off a crush reg like no other sometimes, but it is at least partly “desperation speak”. The last few years I was around he seemed sad to me. I remember him long ago with a sense of humour – I did noticed his sense of humour got packed away.
Calvin B Duffield says
Wendy, here is the latest, from a reliable source! Some 30 Corp Scns have just left the building, (J’burg) and departed for Ron’s Org, currently based in cape Town. Expect to see developments emerging in your area soon!
Wendy M says
Wow! I have no words……!!!!!!
Jane Doe says
Woo Hoo! Calvin tell us more! Did these 30 who left do it together en masse? What was the final straw that broke the camel’s back and made them leave? Tell us more.
Calvin B Duffield says
That’s all I have for now, folks! Stick around for the updates, as & when!
There are 2 key differences between scientology and other mainstream religions
1) Money: Scientology is the only one that REQUIRES massive payment before divulging the basis of the philosophy
2) The “faith” is not a faith but a delusion. Faith is belief in the absence of fact (God, soul, heaven, son of man etc). Basic spirtual claims of scientology are factual: “Fact: a quality of reality, something that can be proven, an actual occurence”. However, they are disproven facts. eg: OT enhancement of abilities, emeter measurements etc
Jane Doe says
Neo, do you live in LA?
No. Any reason?
Jane Doe says
I’d like to comm with you privately. Can you get Mike to give you my email address or vice versa?
Kevin Tighe says
Now that Scientology is finally going to get the tech delivered correctly I wonder if they’ll be offering refunds for the shoddy substitutes they sold us before.
I see a lot of faith based arguments here and I am sure you never intended that.
My mamy toll me there were three things you should never discuss sex, politics and religion.
It’s difficult to avoid the latter since this is a blog about Scientology is a religion by virtue of the fact that it deals with the spirit.
However unlike most religions it is supposed to be gnostic.
That is based on knowledge which is what the derivative or etymology means.
One of the definitions of Scientology is “knowing how to know”.
Also according to the article entitled “Personal Integrity” its based on what is true for you.
Of course these precepts are far from being applied perfectly. Just as the idea that “all men are created equal”, yet slavery and racism have darkened our history here in America.
That said I’d like to address what I believe is the key point here and how RTC has totally perverted Scientology by sabotaging auditor training.
You read over any training policy or bulletin written by Ron and the idea was to make training fast. That is light on theory and heavy on actual practice.
In fact he says in the RED Orders for Immediate Compliance:
“Courses should be fast, auditing drawn out. This is the exact reverse to what has been happening. Slow courses and fast auditing destroy the subjects of Dianetics and Scientology. Fast courses and long long hours of auditing are the route to real gains and solvency. ”
To emphasis the point:
“Slow courses and fast auditing destroy the subjects of Dianetics and Scientology.”
Whether you agree with it or not this was the Ol’man’s intention and why when I got into Scientology training and Coauditing was promoted more than pro auditing.
The cost of auditing was intentionally made prohibitive in order to force people to get trained.
I personally received all my auditing with the exception of the solo levels and the Truth Rundown in a coaudit.
And I’ve looked back at how much money I’ve spent on Scientology services including the catastrophes such as the Truth RD and the Tech (Un)Certainty Courses and it came out to less than I’ve spent on cigarettes and I’m not a heavy smoker.
Not anywhere near what the Fat Cats or Whales are spending to get to OT 8 as a do nothing lunatic.
(Look up the definition of “lunatic” some time in the Admin dictionary.)
To give you a basic RD.
It took me 10 days to do the original HSDC then I did NED which took me a week followed by the Levels which took less than 5 and the HRD which took about 10 days.
The longest course I did was the Briefing Course which took me just over 2 years but while I was on it I did the HSSC and FPRD courses which had just come out, had worked on the CCRD pilot as well as courses related to NWC, such as the RP pilot plus I coaudited my OT Preps and Eligibility which only Sea Org members are allowed to do now.
I was slower on the BC as I should of been because it was such a fantastic course I didn’t want to complete it.
I came back in the late ’90’s to do the what I call the Tech Uncertainty Lineup and found nothing but arbitraries and it took longer to do what was basically a retread than it took to me to do almost the entire training bridge earlier. Not only that but it cost me more than what I spent on my complete training package in the early ’80’s.
Back then you didn’t have to do the “basics” which if you tally up all the theory involved rivals the SHSBC. Yet unlike the BC contains processes you’ll never use.
I mean all you trained auditors out there:
When’s the last time you’ve run Route 1 or told someone to be three feet back of their head or used creative processing?
Where are those processes on the Standard Grade Chart these days?
What practical value does this information have for say a levels auditor?
Rhetorical because it has none whatsoever.
In many cases all it will do when they get on their levels is confuse the poor guy or gal thinking stupid thoughts like you can continue to audit a PC past exteriorization because the Ol’man said you could do it back in the early ’50’s.
Or that you can run SOP 8C like forever because again that’s what they did ’54.
Sure these processes and that have value and maybe could be run…
ON AN OT!
But not someone on the lower end of the Grade Chart.
I mean you ever ask yourself why the Ol’ man placed the OT Doc course originally called the Philadelphia Doctorate above OT III?
Yet right now they are included with the “Basics” which also includes “History of Man” as well.
Are they kidding????
Might as well hand them OT III while they’re at it.
Where’s the gradient?
Much of this information is just too incredible for the average Scientologist, never mind the average “wog” and I use that word in jest.
Yeah to some people it is a real possibility that you’ve lived before and you can exteriorize and operate exteriorly etc.
But to the bulk of humanity in the Western World in particular it is not!
Besides the average person isn’t going to care about Remote Viewing or Telepathy or Psychokinesis or about the 4th and 5th invader forces or any of that.
They care more about the upset with the boss or their lover, or that strange somatic that they’ve been to dozens of Doctors to see or why they can’t talk to people and they always have problems and why the world seems so hostile or why they’re continually upset and feel compelled to make others wrong.
Sorry I used so much space on your board for this rant.
Rant over 🙂
Well, just to add another quick comment I am very glad to see you ,Mike Rinder and Marty, doing what you’re doing. Unraveling the jig saw puzzle that was to be the Perfect picture in the end, and yet wasn’t. And I also thank Hubbard for getting us all to open our eyes and Look , Which is what we’re doing right now, isn’t it? So thanks much and I’m always looking forward to what you two guys think and have to say, along with all the posters.
Mike, not that you meant to however you stepped on a few theological toes.
In the Catholic faith eternal life is one’s salvation for following the teachings of the Church after the fact. With Scientology my understanding is that before Death you already become an Immortal Soul.
One religion promises life ever after before with the other after.
Yet with Catholicism while the donation basket does come round at mass. You do not have to contribute you can still receive Mass, Communion and Confession. For Baptism, Marriage and Death usually around $100 dollars will suffice the Priest.
I think some people took your posting a little harshly. I myself having been raised in the faith found it somewhat insulting. Yet I do not believe that was your intention.
Still you could discuss with a Priest your concerns or questions on faith. You could go to church and not contribute a penny and not be shunned. If you left the faith for decades you could return. They may suggest you might go to confession to atone for your sins that would be about it. If you wished you cold go and discuss teachings with a Priest even the Pagan Halloween etc. Some Priests might get offended many others will be open and willing to talk.
Just some thoughts your feelings on your faith are of interest. While I would not expect you to go into a deep theological discussion. Some of your thoughts some day might give the subject more context.
While there is no evidence of Heaven or God various religions very rarely charge a half a million dollars for mass services. Can a poor child of no means be taught the faith of Scientology without having to sign away their life to servitude? The previous sentences on monetary charges was hopefully not be insulting to you. It was not my intent I just don’t know how else to put it into context. I just am not sure you can equate the two diverging paths. Faith is an individual decision various religious doctrines only attempt to plant the seeds.
God, Buddha, Muhammad they were all born around the same time. There are those who are extremely orthodox the born again many of these people in my opinion are to strict. Yet I can still speak with them and get along. Many others are religious on their own terms. Hopefully not extremist orthodox fire and brimstone teachings.
Mostly it is to treat your fellow beings with kindness and compassion. However the Crusades and the Inquisition will make anyone’s blood boil they were different times. Still you and your Wife and Children are to be loved no matter what faith they might be, love thy neighbor.
Mike Rinder says
Thanks Taylor. As I have responded to some others, I don’t have a beef with catholics or christians or jew or mormons or islamists or anyone else. And I personally do not think that there is anything wrong with “faith” — whether it is misplaced or not, it is a civilizing influence on most individuals (though for some it can be a motivation for violence) — almost like a second conscience. I do have a beef with fundamentalists of any persuasion. I have called members of the church of scientology fundamentalists many times. All I was pointing out is that those within the church are derisive about “faith” — they have a bunch of platitudes about “if its isnt true for you, it isnt true” and “Scientology is not a faith based religion”. All I was attempting to point out is that it has BECOME a “faith based” religion/cult. But this is an argument that could go on forever, so I am not going to continue the discussion as some take offense where none was intended. I was NOT comparing Scientology to Catholicism in all respects. I agree that Catholics generally are not hammered for money like Scientologists are. I also believe there are less pedophile priests in Scientology than in the Catholic church. Neither of which are relevant. My comments were only about FAITH and being a FAITH based religion.
Main Man says
Completely agree with your statements Mike. As someone who was a die-hard “Ron adherant” not so long ago, the real elephant in the room for me was not the many documented CO$ abuses, but simply that Scientology as a subject does not work. In the PDC Lectures, Hubbard provided many interesting narratives on what he felt was possible in terms of creating/rehabilitiating the Homo Novis. More tellingly, he also stated unequivocally that this spiritual rehabiliation can be achieved very easily. Despite the wild and unprovable claims of cult fanatics and apologists, I am not aware of a single example that would bear any kind of scientific scrutiny. I do not know if Hubbard truly believed what he preached, but what I do know is that he ransacked many other religions and belief systems for material, packaged it up as his own whilst placing his own space-opera spin on top of it. For me, he was enacting a faith-based fraud in the same way the likes of Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar and many other televangelists do.If you wish to be a believer in Jesus or Miscavige, then that is fine by me. But belief results in cultural identity becoming important over the practise. At which point real results (or lack of them) become seemingly less important.
Well explained, Mike. I agree on all points and in particular on fundamentalism, which in my opinion is just another term for “thought stopping”.
Noni Mause says
Mike! Gah! And you were doing so well… If the pedophile priest comment wasn’t relevant to your argument why include it? – especially today when the Laura D info came out on Tony O’s website. Anyone might agree that scientology has fewer pedophiles than the poor old Catholics, but they certainly have more ‘clergy’ advocating the killing of unborn babies.
Man, I’m cross today.
“Nothing will ever be the same again.” “Nothing will ever be the same again.” “Nothing will ever be the same again.” “Nothing will ever be the same again.” “NOTHING will ever be the same again.” 🙂
Mike post is relevant and NOT a generality.
Christianity introduced the idea of religious intolerance into Western civilization, stealing the concept of Monotheism from Judaism, and borrowing the worst religious extremism from the Zealot’s, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zealots. Annihilating in the process all other religions in the Mediterranean world.
They unleashed fifteen hundred years of religious warfare, intolerance and general brain washing upon the world population.
By biblical mandate, Christians are the only one who possess the inerrant, divine word of GOD, and must perforce convert the rest of the human population, lest they be condemned to eternal damnation.
The fact that your friendly Christian neighborhood Church, is being compassionate and decent this days, does not in any way alter the deeply mind numbing beliefs systems they implanted on the general population.
I would like to remind everyone here, that the Eugenic movement and Psychiatry had no particular interest in the Jewish population nor their belief system.
No, it was the old Christian idea, the centuries old held down seven, “the Jews killed the son of god” which was used to precipitate the Holocaust.
I agree with Mike wholeheartedly, Scientologist has turned into a religious cult not unlike, any other faith based religion.
Conan, I went to catechism for at least 7 years as well as a Catholic school. I have further studies in Theology in a University setting. Never were we taught anything negative about the faith of Judaism. I believe the Holocaust was Hitler having a dislike for those of the Jewish faith because of their wealth not religion.
Also Psychiatry was never discussed that I could ever recall. However Science does show us with brain scans that their are in fact Organic & Chemical imbalances in the Human brain. DNA does not always produce or propagate what we consider to be optimal Human beings.
These cannot be cured however with medication they can be masked. This allows the affected party to lead a normal life and I believe in Science.
There are to many double blind Scientific studies that back up such facts. Yes some medications are over prescribed. Quite often an overactive child with 2 working parents they seek to quite them.
This is wrong as with many ADHD they are just inquisitive kids. People should not have children if they do not have the time to care for them. The profession of Psychiatry and Psychology are useful as quite often counseling which I equate with Auditing to an extent will help many people.
For the record I believe more in the teachings of Buddha then other teachings
Spot on as usual Mike.
As for Albert, I know some locals who probably have a different opinion, perhaps as a result of him being so PTS to DM!
In light of the blockbuster development in Laura’s case (and kudos to Christie), have any thoughts on whether the already shaky events “planned” in Clearwater will actually take place?
Accusing leonpmu of “Religious Bigotry” is truly unkind, and most definitely unfair. Leonpmn said absolutely nothing that could be construed as “religious bigotry” in ANY WAY. Using this slur is an overly-used OSA attack tactic. I hope you can escape the LRH brainwashing and learn to see things objectively.
If you click on the blue “Reply” link in a message, it’s easier for the person addressed to actually get your message.
Idle Morgue says
Great post again Mike!! I love this blog!!
The runways keep getting blocked, detoured and shut down. Scientology ~ the “science” of BATSHIT CRAZY!
Richard Roberts says
Heres my failed understanding about the basics. When they were released everyone was supposed to get through them in lighting speed, 4 weeks or so. I struggled even with getting through the first books. Probably because I didn’t believe they were for real and on source but thats another story. The basics are obviously an epic fail. If they are still trying to get people through them this long after the release then someone has to look at this as an outpoint.
Then the Objectives. No one on the planet has done objectives correctly and the only place in the world to do them is Flag but none of you qualify to attend Flag as you are all DB sp’s. So therefor just donate to our lost cause of an empty building.
The downward spiral accelerates the closer you get to Scientology.
In the Church (Scientolgy) it is like that plus mix in some Nazi Germany into the mix. There is no questioning. No free thought or observation. If Miscavige says it’s true, it’s true (nevermind that you dont see it yourself). It’s straight up and vertical. If any Christian churches remind me of Miscavige it’s stuff like Westboro Baptist Chruch. That kind of hard-core fundamentalism or whatever it is. Where they are right and you are wrong and they are justified in doing anything they need to do. Like the Squirrel Busters.
Scientology Pimp (@TaxFreeCOB) says
Interesting post Mike, as usual. It did make me curious to ask if you’re willing to share: do you have a religious affiliation these days or are you among the growing group of “None of the above”?
I’ve never been a Scientologist but as an ex-christian I also find their belief system (among most others) to be full of holes, inconsistencies and contradictions that in quite a similar fashion are easily ignored by the faithful and if you point them out you are criticized for not believing and if you’re not one of them you ‘just don’t understand’. And if one leaves their Church/Denomination/Faith there is always the cop out that they faithful use of just assuming that “they were never a REAL believer to begin with”. I’ve come to the conclusion that most people can convince themselves of anything if they really want to, even without evidence or even with a mountain of evidence to the contrary staring them in the face.
I thini for th emost part Christians today are more accepting of other viewponts than the church. Ofcourse they hav their “faith” which has parts that are sort of fixed, but even those are up for debate. There is a lot of different interpretation and varying application of their “tech”.
We have a Church next to our business and my wife and son have gone there a few times. The pastors wife came to our store and we were talking about their church and their music (I fixed their sound system a few weeks ago). We talked about me possibly playing bass guitar for them and she said with a lot of sincerity “Chris, it doesnt matter if you have the exact seame beliefs- we just need a bass player”.
I don’t mean this to be an opposition to the OP.
I think I have to flunk you guys on your bullbait here.
Would you point out the grammatical errors that in Mike’s post? I think that the reason you can’t understand the first sentence is because your boss has never allowed you to do a standard Student Hat course. And of course he “disappeared” the Key to Life. So, you are kind of screwed when it comes to understanding what you read unless you get some training outside of the COS where some still practice standard tech. There are many here willing to help.
This is the “Church” of Empty Promises. Reading that… piece reminded me of how I stopped going to IAS events because the “hot news” they promised turned out to be 5 minutes of sensation and 5 hours of regging. How I lost my enthusiasm for reading the mags, because it really always sounded the same, year after year – except the prices kept receding in the sky.
It’s all just bloviating, luke warm halitosis.
Right Sylvia. Torquemada tortured bodies. Mi$cavige tortures souls.
Mike was not insulting Christianity. He was pointing out that modern day Scientologists have degenerated from observing things for themselves (which is a tenet of our religion) to blindly worshiping leaders and blindly believing what they say as if they were God.
I am truly sorry that your friend is stuck in the big blue building and I hope he escapes.
I also hope that you escape from your religious bigotry.
I understand Dean’s reaction to your statement, and I found what you said to be an unfortunate characterization as well: “Scientology is becoming more and more like Christianity. Christian faithful are kept on the hook with the promise of heaven and the pearly gates and reuniting with loved ones and sitting at the feet of Jesus and God.”
The range of viewpoints of Christians is very great, and consideration belief as well. I grew up in a Protestant church. My parents did not go to Church, but I did, and I enjoyed it. I attended regular Sunday services, Sunday School, teen clubs. I’ve attended a great variety of Christian (and Jewish) and Masonic events. Before and after OT III and years on staff, I’ve participated in Methodist, Presbyterian, Lutheran, Baptist, Catholic, LDS services, and I often play music with and for a variety of religious-based groups as a matter of personal spiritual expression. Some of the most deeply spiritual music EVER written was composed by devoutly spiritual “Christians” tapping into the theta mind. Most people who come together in the setting of Christian churches are trying to comprehend the big questions, too – what is human purpose and genesis – what is beyond day-to-day survival, what gives value to living.
Never have I experienced anywhere near the fanaticism and blind faith and intolerance in those Christian churches that has become the norm in Scientology. Most Christians in my experience have very much a philosophical approach based on teachings of Jesus. What were those teachings? Fundamentally, I would say – off the top of my head – love God, love thy neighbor as thyself, know that you are immortal, give and accept forgiveness, follow the “Golden Rule,” accept ONESELF as being of God. I can say the “Lord’s Prayer” today as sincerely as before Scientology, understanding it as poetry, affirmation of spiritual nature of mankind, affirmation of postulate, and affirmation of 7th & 8th dynamic.
When I read your comment, I felt it was misinformed and a bit uncharitable. Perhaps your data is colored by the fact you did not grow up in a Christian environment with philosophical discussion and debate, and you have accepted a rather narrow and in my opinion, distorted, characterization of Christianity that is popular in media today.
I am not trying to advocate that one become a Christian. None of the Christian churches offers anything near to the technologies of LRH & Scientology that can help change conditions – no auditing or training – no clearing, no theta/mest theory, axioms & logics, scales, etc. However, I can accept the basic teachings of Christianity as good, and I accept and tolerate rituals that help people focus on “higher thoughts” in order to hang on through the often terrible difficulties of life. Getting into heaven is not the goal. Making an effort to love and learn and live a good life and forgive and to know God, self, and others is what it is about, in my viewpoint. I have no problem with that!
David Miscavige and his ilk are to Scientology as the Inquisitors were to Christianity. Today, most Christian Churches are far a more “theta” place to be than the robot insanity & MEST-centeredness of the corporate Scientology.
Let me state that without the goofs! Today, most Christian Churches are a far more “theta” place to be than the robot insanity & MEST-centeredness of the corporate Scientology world.
Mike Rinder says
Leonore, just so I am clear. I wholeheartedly agree with you. As I said, there is NOTHING WRONG WITH FAITH. Just don’t pretend you are doing something else.
Jane Doe says
leonore, christianity and scientology are the same. they are both false religions with false promises. and mike, there is plenty wrong with faith. for example, how many massacres and tragedies have occurred because of “faith”? faith is a very bad thing because it is not changed easily no matter the evidence to the contrary. faith blinds people and stunts their intellectual acumen.
Cat Daddy says
Blind faith in intullectuals is destructive well as is a higher than thou attitude.
Mike Rinder says
Leonore — I have no argument with you whatsoever. I think on the whole the family and community values taught by Christianity are very civilized. I think the charitable contributions by Christian churches is wonderful. My point was simply that Christians are not sold with the promise of being a science and knowledge based religion. Scientology is. Generally, the hypocrisy in Christianity only sets in with the fundamentalists who take the bible literally and assert against all evidence before them that it is “the word of God” and is absolutely true. That is BLIND faith. And that was what I was saying is happening in Scientology with the fundamentalists in the church. But their hypocrisy is greater. Because while they deride faith because they “know better,” it is EXACTLY what they are doing.
I understand. I just wanted to share my viewpoint and stick up for the the goodness of the majority of Christians who are ALSO my friends. Thank you for the opportunity to do so.
Mike Rinder says
Leonore — no need to stick up for Christians here. They’re not under attack. 🙂
Simple Thetan says
Mike Rinder says
Fully Automated Robot TV Public Divisions.
Simple Thetan says
Anne of Windsor says
It appears you are not an EX. You must not be receiving the endless stream of 3DN emails and the absurd and laughable Scio emails that clog our mailboxes with BS every single day. If you received the mail that we who are no longer IN receive, surely you would not think Mike’s sources are magic, nor like he is making up content. This is in the public domain, email and US PS mail, for those that have been In. It never stops. Be glad you are clueless and in the dark about where this data comes from. This is not for puppets, quite the contrary.
The Oracle says
Wow! GATT2or6@$ or whatever it is this year, will make it viable to be on staff? That is what he said. So this is what David promised them at the conference. After all these decades it will be viable to be on staff. It was viable to be on staff before he wiped out the mission network. I guess he glossed over that? There were plenty of people on staff at the Orge before he unleashed his finance police. You know why it hasn’t been viable to be on staff?
Johannesburg ideal prospect says
Well, I have bought and I have study all the Basics and the accompanying extention courses.
I was struck by the number of processes which are no longer in use. I also realised that Hubbard never bothered to review his earlier works and amend according to his later discoveries.
If you are happy to study the history of how and why the motor Car developed, including inventions and developments that where quickly abandoned, study the Basics.
I realised that scientology is not an exact science , that the data is not well organized, that orgs are unable to apply and ultimately, scientologusts have degraded into a cult of believers.
Giving standing ovations at an event, shouting ‘hurah, hurah, hurah! ‘ to a picture of Hubbard reminds me of ‘the faithful’ singing ‘Jesus loves you ‘ to an effigy of Christ on a cross.
IMHO, scientology is a belief, Hubbard the saviour and DM is Hubbards representative here on earth.
Forrest Crane says
The runway to auditor training is a long runway with many opportunities to fall off the Bridge before one even gets to the Bridge. I can easily predict the future here, number of auditors made, zero. It’s intended to be this way.
Doug Parent says
Everything the cult does seems to make sense if the real purpose is very clear and out in the open. recycle, recycle recycle. Stop stop stop is one way of getting people to give up for awhile but the con is the promise that “somehow things will get corrected”. It’s almost as if there is an unspoken contract (fraudulent of course) that public have bought into that THINGS WILL GET BETTER. (GAG II) Their faith is well intended but misplaced and they have relinquished their own sense of vigilance. Handed the reigns over to an authoritarian who promises he can fix the very problems he is creating. Miscavige, you are a sly dog but even a dog knows when he’s been bad. Thats hang dog. You are not even up to hang-dog. I have dog friends that are better humans than you Miscavige. I hope everyone still in Scientology is reading this and I hope you all demand better. LRH developed the bridge, and was assisted by many able people along the way. The have been declared SP by that hang dog wanna be-black smoke puff masquerading as a being called David Miscavige. He has betrayed you he has betrayed LRH and he has betrayed Scientology. Your entire bridge awaits you outside the walls of an empty city called Church of Scientology. Help build a new movement and be part of the rebuilding if thats your purpose. Your friends are here. Support a movement where people can actually afford training and auditing and get real gains and make real strides. Hundreds leave every month. We are expecting you. We will help you.
Nice. Very realistic, very practical. Even inspiring. I like it! With the comments and perspectives above about Christianity, and reminders that not every Christian is Christian at heart, and all the treason of Miscavige, it’s nice to be reminded of what we Scientologists are really all about – the study of knowledge.
jennifer sanders says
Doug, I think your last 7 sentences should be re-posted every single day: “Your entire bridge awaits you outside”——-to ——“We will help you.” Actual Scientology can’t die unless we
loosen our grip and let it go, it’s ours, our knowledge, our skills, our beingness. I LOVE what it has done for me and know that others do as well. Let’s help our friends find the gift of those gains, once more.
I love what you wrote: “Actual Scientology can’t die unless we loosen our grip and let it go. It’s ours, our knowledge, our skills, our beingness”.
Karla Zamudio says
This is the very kind of thing that use to give me anxiety. Just reading this gives me anxiety! Staff members would tell me to put Scientology first and career second. In other words, give up on your goals and dreams and just be a Scientologist full-time.
Gus Cox says
I thought that He Who Must Not Be Named, Chairman of the Board Religious Technology Center Mr. David Miscavige promised staff their training with the Universe Corps.
Which would have been a good idea, had He actually delivered on His promise. As it is, the SO consists mostly of un-trained people. In fact, the least-trained people in Scientology are the ones running it: The Sea Org.
If it is like Christianity we could state that it was during the time of the inquisition where, at the slightest suspicion that you were opposed to their “theology and dogmas”, you were tortured, abused and killed.
Devil Moron’s tools of inquisition come from OSA and their harassment, the ‘policy’ on Disconnection, the Hole for higher execs and Int staff, slaps and heavy physical blows and so on. The list is long.
Torquemada looks like a saint compared with this character.
Jane Doe says
Yes Silvia, what you say is so true. And if anyone needs proof of it, in Marty’s latest post, in the comments section there is a link that takes you to an article about the Black Ops from OSA program that they ran on Chuck Beatty when he was first speaking out. And there were L|RH references on how to run a smear campaign plus a NEW OSA reference made by DM alsoon how to destroy anyone speaking up about the church. Read that and it will make your blood run cold that anyone, Mafia, or anyone at all would do this. And to think that a CHURCH would have you do these illegal things aimed at destroying a critic, is just unthinkable. Churches are supposed to help people and provide hope and succor. Instead this is the opposite and is like Christianity during the Inquisition times.
Natural Pihosopher says
It’s ironic that policies which once were written to root out evil-doers in society and expose them have been twisted and contorted into a Black Op against former members of the ‘Church’ who could possibly harm its operations. Policies on investigations and on handling trouble spots such as Nazis operating with impunity in Interpol, or psychiatrists engaging in mind-control experimentation are no longer pointed in those directions, but internally within the organization. Campaigns that complemented Freedom of Information requests, and were subject to exposure in the Freedom magazine (which was once a very sought after publication with external publics) have morphed into campaigns against former members who speak out against corporate Scientology or who attempt to blow the whistle on corrupt or Ponzi activities done under protection of the 5th Amendment by the organization.
These effective external campaigns were basically shut down in the early 80’s under the pretext of ‘keeping the peace’. Too bad the ‘peacekeepers’ (OSA) didn’t have enough enemies after that so started making them out of former staff and public!
Blue Seagull says
Very astute observation NP. A classic example of black scientology.
Your post is filled with grammatical problems and I don’t understand that first sentence but this is not the major problem, it’s that you magically get all this info on what is going on at these briefings. Where are your sources? How could you write this without sources. When you criticize someone or something and state facts you need to be specific on how you get your data or else it appears to be made up. It makes you look like a bitter ex-employee making up stories. You should know better. Unless this site is only for puppets.
Simple Thetan says
Are you nuts? Or are you OSA? Do you really believe he is so stupid that he reveal his sources to you? Do you really believe that nobody is seeing through your idiotic comment?
Simple Thetan says
If you are so smart, go ahead and show us where the grammatical mistakes are. As for me, I do not believe you even know what grammar is.
Martin Padfield says
I suspect that the source of Albert’s letter, the one with his photo next to it and signed by him – is Albert. Just a wild guess.
Sunshine Disinfects says
Tress, make sure you keep on drinking Kool Aid…..just in case you might LOOK and not LISTEN………..
Jane Doe says
Methinks me doth detect a troll here Tess.
Awesome. I love the smell of kool-aid in the morning.
Let me get this clear, Tress. You’re asking Mike to IDENTIFY his sources? What can you possibly be thinking of?
OSA is in the house, instructing Mike Rinder to reveal his sources!
Snap to it, Mike!
Ah, troll, wouldn’t your lil’ boss just LOVE to know.
I’m the last person to defend Rinder if he makes a mistake.
However, the flier backs up most of what he is saying, so there is the source of his data – material published by the Church or its associates. Unless you have a point more specific in mind, in which case, you need to be specific on which point you find lacking. His commentary is mostly OpEd.
Still on your side says
Tress, if you think trolling, or this type of antagonistic email, will work in 2013 after all of the hundreds of exposes on the church, you are wrong. While the church buildings are emptier and emptier, Miscavige claims that proof of the church’s expansion is the number of times people search for the word “Scientology” on the Internet. That is as nutty as your email. Millions of people search “Scientology ” on the Internet because the Church of Scientology is so rotten from within it is disintegrating in full view of those millions, and people are as drawn to that spectacle as they are to a train wreck. This is not 2000 or even 2010, embedded in popular culture is the reality that the Church of Scientology is a corrupt institution that is driving away even its most loyal members. So, trolling and personal attacks on Mike Rinder are yesterday’s news and you really should better spend your time in more constructive work.
I understand that ‘tone’ is very important to those who believe as it seems you do. Your posting sounds very agitated and fearful. Why is that?
Tress, I am making a small leap here and assuming you are a woman. I invite you to follow Mike’s link at his next post to a heart rending story about what has happened to a young woman, and sadly many young women in your organization. Please read it.
Just Me says
You wrote run-on sentences. You forgot to put a comma in a compound sentence. You failed to end a question with a question mark. You ended your comment wiith a phrase, not a sentence. Mike doesn’t name his sources inside CoS to safeguard his sources. Keep reading. You will learn things you need to know.
Blue Seagull says
Tess, your comment was passed to invite the contempt it deserved. If you and your grammar is indicative of what kind of individual is doing OSA’s bidding these days, we can probably start the big celebrations sooner than I thought. You have my pity. And my contempt of course.
Tony DePhillips says
“In order to get ONTO the “streamlined” GAG II Academy levels, you have to plow through “The Basics.” This is like promoting how you built a new superfast car to win a race, but you require the driver to run for a mile with a two hundred pound ball and chain around his ankle before he is allowed to start the race. ” Mike Rinder
You crack me up Mike. It is so true what you say. Or another version would be; It’s like promising you a Indy race car but you only have to create the carburetor for it using directions written by the village idiot and they are in braille. Then you will go SUPER FAST. Lol.
This psycho dm is STOP_STOP-STOP-STOP.
Jose Chung says
YES SIR Captain Miscavige , Aye, Aye!
It’s Cement tires on Rubber Roads.
Scientology is nothing like Christianity whether it’s LRH Scientology, DM Scientology, or independent Scientology as practiced by you and I take offence to your statement that it is.
Mike Rinder says
Its certainly your right to disagree Dean.
Let me understand what it is that you disagree with and find offensive? That Christianity is based on faith? Or that Scientology is now based on faith? Or something else?
Hi there Mike, I think he is referring to your statement of the world being created in 6 days. As a Christian myself, I tend to take that more as an analogy for people to get the concept rather than say something like, it took God 3000 years to get things sorted.
I often refer to the joke of a man talking to God, the man says “Lord, how long is 100 year for you?” God replies “A minute”, then the man asks, “Lord how much is a million dollars to you?” got replies, “1 cent”. The says “Lord, please can you give me a cent?” the Lord replies : “In a minute”
Which basically means, that we all have concepts of time frames. Also, I tend to think of the idea of creation as being a testing phase, over a long period of time, first He made the dinosaurs, and figured they weren’t the best design etc and continued from there.
So, aside from that, I would like to thank you for a fantastic blog Mike, you give great perspective on the situations within Scientology.
NOTE : I never have, nor ever will be a scientologist, but I have a deep interest in the matter as I have someone I know stuck inside the big blue building, & there is almost no hope for this person in ever getting out, this person has, as far as I can see, a very sad existence. This person has been in since the days of Hubbard, and has been sad since then, but wont admit it. Hubbard was a con man, who destroyed lives and families, and DM has just pushed it to the max.
Perhaps you should try that explanation on Young Earth Creationists.
Much like you see the Genesis as an analogy, I believe Mike is doing the same here. This is primarily a discussion about blind faith, and there Creationists and quite a number of Scientologists seem to be resembling each other more and more. A very disturbing evolution, when you consider the implications of fundamentalism.
Ronnie Bell says
Leon, if I said that Jesus was a con man who created a cult and destroyed lives and families, would that offend you? What you just said about Hubbard offended me.
Martin Padfield says
I’ll pitch in here: Christianity is honest about being a faith-based religion. One of the leaders at my local Anglican Church is a highly educated physics professor. He and I could argue all day long about the illogic of various aspects of his faith – and he would be happy to also – but it would be quite pointless. I think that Scientology has always required large leaps of faith by its adherents to make it “work” at an institutional level. Statements such as “based on hundreds of case studies” for example. “Blind and crippled at the end of the war”; “the only hope for mankind”; “I never had a second wife”. There are probably thousands of statements that are to be taken “on faith” and that’s before you even start talking about the OT levels. There is even in one of the later Ron’s Journals this amazing statement “I have never lied to you or conned you in any way”. It’s all fine except that the writings elsewhere tell you it is all to be taken as literal hard fact. The opening line of History of Man starts with the words “this is a cold blooded and factual account of your last sixty trillion years”. But when I attend an Easter service and the vicar talks about Jesus PHYSICALLY rising from the dead I couldn’t care less about its literalness. It doesn’t matter because it is overtly faith based. I think that’s the difference.
how can intelligent people believe in god? the answer: they don’t. your physics professor is not intelligent as physics provides the answers that religion feigns to provide. his reliance on religion demonstrates his lack of scientific understanding.
The reasons that I stated Scientology is nothing like Christianity are many. Scientology is and has been all about money. There is no charity. There is no compassion for those less fortunate and nothing is free. Christianity is free and you can attend church without having to pay one dime. Christianity donates food, clothing, and shelter freely to the multitudes of people who are in need.
Christianity teaches about love. Scientology does not.
Christianity tells us there is one God and He is above all of us. Scientology would have us believe that LRH is God and that all of us can become God by rehabilitating ourselves through the OT levels.
Scientology states that man is basically good. Christianity tells us that we are all sinners and that it is not possible to be sinless no matter how many confessions or O/W write ups you do. We are forgiven our trespasses through what Jesus did, not by what we do.
Christianity teaches us to not be arrogant and prideful where as Scientology encourages arrogance and in the Sea Org arrogance, ruthlessness, and a cold chrome steel personality with no love or sympathy is a desired state to be in.
Christianity is based on the Bible and the teachings of Jesus Christ as written in the New Testament. Scientology is based on the writings of L Ron Hubbard who lied about his accomplishments and was very good friends with Allister Crowley and considered himself the Antichrist.
anthony ardillo says
Christianity teaches love? Seriously? I have known more than a hundred teens who have been abandoned by their parents and their Christian faith when they “come out of the closet” as LGBT. Lives ruined, and families torn apart. Love? What about the Inquisition? What about slaveowners and their traders standing on a soapbox reading Bible verses to prove their point? What about the priests who continually, without consequence, sexually abuse children? What about the charlatans like Jim Bakker, Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell, Peter Popoff, Ken Ham, Joseph Smith, etc.? Oh, yeah, what about Scott Lively who was the main advocate and creator of the infamous “Kill the Gays” bill in west African Countries? Did you draw a blank on all these things?
Cat Daddy says
DMSCOHB even Einstein believed in God,
in this day and age of science, reason and knowledge, i cannot believe that there are still people out there who believe in god. besides, which god is the right one? i mean, there has been thousands of religions and gods throughout time; so, who is right? it cannot be christianity as the bible was written by man, not god, and historical archaeology conclusively proves that there was no such man as jesus of nazareth. need proof of what i am saying? please check out “the amazing” james randi and his video on youtube regarding the bible, jesus and his “alleged” birth in nazareth: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxEJHO8KIXY.
Martin Padfield says
This is not an atheism forum – I think you might be in the wrong place
A Jesuit astrophysicist speaking, at the recent Noble Conference 49, on Cosmology and Christian Faith.
Also, here is a lengthy interview of him by Richard Dawkins:
Food for thought.
Dean.. you have been blinded by Christianity and don’t seem to have a handle on the history of it. Money has always played a part in all MAJOR Christian religions so to state otherwise is laughable. Christianity has evolved over 2000 years now… Mike can make comparisons all day long. Stop being offended, and learn REAL history. The Bible is a work of mostly fiction and is SCIENTIFICALLY proven so. You have FAITH in it.. which was Mike’s whole point.. Scientology is now more about FAITH then it was originally intended to be.
Dean, Christianity, the philosophy is one of love, caring, unselfishness and forbearance. That said, the various Christian religions have historicaly gone far afield from that original philosophy of “love thy neighbor as thyself”, and “you are your brother’s keeper”, and “a soft answer turneth away wrath”, etc. I myself find it very helpful to make clear distinctions between the philosophy upon which any given religion is supposed to be based, and the actual practices of that religion.
I am a Scientologist who loves, admires and respects the philosophy of Scientology and deplores the practices, misinterpretation and outright flouting of the actual philosopy by the Church of Scientology, which I consider a vicious, ruthless, greedy cult.
On the other hand, and not to make excuses or justify Miscavige’s Cult, but what did the Crusades have to do with the philosophy of Jesis Christ? Or the Inquisition? How about the Salem Witch Trials? I trust I make my point. In closing, I will quote you something Ghandi said when asked his opinion of Christianity. He said, “It is a wonderful philosophy. I would like to see it applied”. And, none of what I’ve written here is meant to infer that the Catholic Church or all the Protestant Churches and other Christian faiths don’t do a great deal of good, because they do. My only point is that once a spiritual philosophy gets chrystalised into religious practice you open the door for a marked diversion from the core principles. I ask that you consider the concept of distinction between religious practice and religious philosophy. Peace.
And now back to our regularly scheduled program 🙂
Aquamarine, very nicely stated.