The spiders on Marty’s walls are getting larger and more active and he appears to be increasingly more concerned that he has to explain his hallucinations to the world.
I have tended to ignore pretty much everything he has said, and I could care less what he says about me personally (all anyone need do is go back and look at many of his laudatory comments about me to see that both versions of me that he preached about cannot be true).
But I do not appreciate him taking aim at people who have suffered harm at the hands of scientology and calling them liars. Especially when they have become the target of his lies and vitriol only because they agreed to appear on Scientology: The Aftermath.
His latest (5th) video in his (so far) 26 part series about Scientology The Aftermath is an all out assault on the contributors.
Apart from continuing to repeat his completely false assumption that the show is “so obviously scripted, rehearsed, acted and dramatized every step of the way it’s a whole new level of false impression” (as he constantly looks down to his notes to make sure he is covering all the points he is supposed to get out), he rambles on thus:
“The people who participate don’t even have to have a story. Which in fact, none of them to date that I have seen through Season 1 has a story worthy of news. How do I know? Because I knew these people 9 years ago when the news was reporting some of the stuff that was going on the previous 10 to 20 years when the news was interested in… haha, OK, heh… they didn’t make the cut then but they make the cut now because they’ll say whatever they are saying…”
The layers of lies he employs to diss the people who have been brave enough to come forward to recount their experiences is Shermanesque.
Let’s look at who the contributors were for Season 1:
Matt Pesch and Amy Scobee
Tom DeVocht
Jeff Hawkins
Mike Rinder and Christie Collbran
Marc and Claire Headley
Mary Kahn
Aaron Smith-Levin
Lois, Gary and Brandon Reisdorf
Ron and Becky Miscavige
According to media expert Rathbun (who does not even understand that a “reality tv” show is not a “documentary tv” show) not a single person on this list has any story worth telling. And of course, he knows this because he knew about them 9 years ago and the media didn’t care about their stories enough to be newsworthy then.
Let’s fact check that assertion first.
The only people who were NOT featured in the St Pete Times coverage 9 years ago (actually it was 2009 that Marty first began his media activities in the Truth Rundown series in the SP Times) are: Mary Kahn, Aaron Smith-Levin, the Reisdorfs and Ron and Becky Miscavige. Mary, Aaron and the Miscavige’s had not left scientology at that time. Of course Ron Miscavige has most definitely been the subject of a lot of “newsworthy” coverage.
Somehow, Rathbun the self-proclaimed arbiter of good news and tv, doesn’t have his facts straight?
But if the standard of what is “newsworthy” is based only on what has been reported before then there can never be any NEW information.
But his “reasoning” is also flawed based on these FACTS: Scientology: The Aftermath is the highest rated show on A&E, is uniformly critically acclaimed, has generated a massive social media presence and is now at the forefront in the annual tv awards nomination season. Of course, Rathbun is entitled to his opinion about whether a tv show is good or bad. What is less excusable than his bad taste is his deliberate lies directed at those who have been damaged by scientology.
He holds himself out as an all-knowing guru of what is right and wrong concerning scientology — he does not offer “opinions” he offers “expert pronouncements” proclaiming these victims are liars and don’t have anything worthwhile to say.
Victim shaming is an art refined in scientology. The very term “victim” is a slur in scientology. You are considered to have “pulled it in” in scientology if anything bad happens to you — it is literally “your fault.” Critic Rathbun is carrying on in that same fine tradition.
And just as a final note — he makes generalized criticisms about how things are “interpreted” and “twisted” and “spun” without a single specific offered. Marty, how about in the next video you name a single specific that you object to?
Addition:
Part 6 has just appeared (I wonder if he has any other clothes) in which Marty proceeds to trash Amy Scobee. While calling her and Mat his “friends” and saying he has “nothing against her” he gives her the Marty friend treatment and calls her a liar and opportunist engaged in some grand conspiracy (he is sounding more and more like Alex Jones with his concocted theories of grand plots and long term plans).
I guess he didnt actually WATCH the episode about Amy and her mom. Accusing her of taking advantage of the death of her mother to be a “TV star” and “get a job in Hollywood” is beneath disgusting.
I am learning more and more about Marty as I look into what he did and who he was/is as a person.It seems awful weird what he did so suddenly. He helped people leave and then turned his backs on them making these pathetic videos with Scientology. Nothing he says in the videos makes sense. He is contradicting everything that he said and done. I don’t understand how he can do that without guilt. Though I am not sure if he feels the guilt or not of doing this to the people that loved and trusted him. I wouldn’t be able to live with myself if I where him.If I am being honest I am seeing similarities between Marty and ASL. Both turning on the ones who loved them. Lying about the people they once where friends with etc. (Although I am seeing far more damage in what ASL been doing than with Marty.) I find it odd that they both turned on the people the said they loved and the people who loved them.
I find it honorable that you said that you don’t care what Marty says about you but when it’s others the is talking about you do. It shows how selfless you tend to be.
The Pain, but alsoo the forgiveness, and the love. And I am an Atheïst for Christ’s sake, Hey Mike I think you know me I am the crazy Guy that brings people back to normality. iI have a one way com with Marty on his blog. And I think because Marty think I am not a threath and I am not a threat. I am just a person with a diagnosis of Asperger (Hello Marthy Tathbun) and ADHD (hello me)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=99-CeOxemS4
Miscavige and the media
I know Mike I know, It pierced my heart too
I am somewhat embarrassed to admit that watching the train wreck that is Scientology has become something of a hobby of mine. It’s a bit like watching the batshit neghbor lose his mind over an overgrown lawn throught the window shades.
I know all the key players, the inane nomenclature, the cities, “orgs”, the Freewinds scandals. It’s all so deliciously warped, how can one not be compelled to follow it? Sadly, real lives are at stake here, but we have freedom of religion and if you are voluntarily (some aren’t) exposing yourself to the cult of the mighty Xenu, and spend all your 401k to do it, your impoverished and angst-ridden life is your own to waste.
So you smile as this cult drains your bank account and scrambles your brain while you turn yourself into a blathering idiot holding onto some ridiculous cans hooked up to a half assed lie detector, run by an unqualified “expert” and you expect what? Sympathy? Respect?
Okay, you get my understandng… especially if your nutty parents got you into the Sea Org when you were three-years-old and you’ve spent 30 years wearing a sailor suit. As for me, I’ll just sit back on the golf course with a beer and a cigar and ask my buddies with a hearty chuckle, “Didja hear the latest from Rathbun about the St. Paul Org? Nutty shit, eh?”
Keep the drama coming… the war of words, the endless paperwork, lawsuits, TV shows, books, movies and all the rest. It’s better than a soap opera. And by-the-way, thanks to Rinder, Remini, Mango, Shelton and the rest for at least TRYING to unscramble the brains of the scrambled. We’ll keep watching. You can’t make this shit up.
There are children also being affected by this. I do not believe simply brushing it off as ” your impoverished and angst-ridden life is your own to waste.” is the right answer. It isn’t true. They can affect those around them. Those who trust them. Who depend on them. It isn’t enough to give people the freedom to ruin their own lives. They literally have control of others often enough.
Ive just watched the Amazon Prime programme and followed the info on different sites such as You Tube. Excellent work by Marty and others. There’s a drink waiting for you in Cornwall, England if your ever here. Well done.
Kindest regards
I love your show against $ceintology. You and especially Leah Remini are my favorite celebrities in the world. It’s my favorite show. $cientology is a scam and you and Mrs. Remini are heroic warriors to be fighting against it.
I spent a lot of time wondering why Marty went from being so vocal about the abuses of Scientology, to attacking the critics and victims of Scientology. There was an interesting theory about Marty’s ego being damaged because of The Aftermath, but I think it might be deeper than that. In Season 3 we heard about people being so ruthlessly attacked by Scientology that they eventually stop speaking out. Could that have happened to Marty? He left years ago, what if it got too much? Perhaps they threatened his wife? It’s speculation of course but I think there’s more to the story than just a bruised ego.
In watching many of interviews with Marty Rathbun over the years, it seems like he liked being the go-to authority on Scientology and it’s abuses. He enjoyed the respect and attention he was getting from the media. Aftermath came out, he was no longer the voice of ex-Scientologists, and I think that really bothered him. It was a shot to his big ego, and although there was probably money involved, DM probably did nothing more to get him back into the fold than to appeal to that big ego. Just watch him in some of his interviews – he really doesn’t show much empathy for people who have suffered abuse from Scientology. A lot of what he goes on and on about is how much of a big shot he was in the organization. Since he did this big 180 he’s getting a lot of attention, and I think he’s just loving it.
Also, when he participated in the Louis Theroux documentary, you could clearly see how extremely uncomfortable Marty was, and I believe that was because he was not in control of the narrative of the film. It’s probably why he didn’t want to be part of Aftermath – he didn’t want to participate in something he didn’t have complete control of.
Some of what he’s said before he did this complete about-face matched what others have said on Aftermath, which begs the question – was he lying then, or is he lying now?
I seriously wonder if Marty has PTSD. I wish he’d get therapy. The things that he has witnessed, taken part of, and directed in Scientology have got to haunt him.
Mike and Leah…thank you for being brave enough to stand strong.
Personally, I believe ALL of those who presently or previously belong(ed) to “COS” (Cult of Scientology) are suffering from PTSD. David “Miscarriage” (of justice) and his ilk spend so much time and effort breaking down their members emotionally, their road of recovery to better mental health is a modern-day trail of tears, laden with pitfalls and IEDs (Improvised Emotional Determents). I hope their arduous journey affords them the ability to one day find their destination to both peace and the healing of broken families.
Marty Rathbun just like to talk about himself like he thinks he is only one who really knows Scientology, it was so clear during Louis Theroux movie. From all former members he is the only one who always seems to be not genuine.
Excellent assessment of Marty and things. I think you’re probably right that he wanted to be the big cheese and the voice of Ex Scn, and when Aftermath came along he was no longer that. The media then turned to interview Leah and Mike etc.
When watching the Theroux show where Marty is showing how to do TR’s and Marty and Theroux step out for a break, that is when the Scn Squirrel Busters come up (they’d been laying in wait for this moment, I suspect) and they made sure to mention Marty’s newly adopted son and imply that they might go public on some dirt they learned about the adoption or something. That is when Marty lost it, blew up, and got all upset and pissy and told Theroux to fuck off or something. Theroux didn’t lose his cool and gave Marty a kind of humorous ack to Marty’s blow up.
I think the Squirrel Busters “missed a withhold” on Marty, to use Scn terms. They missed that maybe there was something amiss about how he came to get this adopted baby. It clearly had something to do with the kid. And Marty did his about face not long after that, EVEN THOUGH HE AND MOSEY WERE WINNING THE LAWSUIT and they had Davey on the ropes. I think Davey offered Marty both a carrot and a stick, as in we’ll give you all this money and college trust fund for the kid if you call it off now, and if you don’t , we’ll expose this dirt on you. After all, Marty might have had to do Davey’s dirty work while being his henchman and they might have threatened to bring up criminal acts he did for DM in his line of duty to him. Or again, maybe something to do with the adoption of his son. But it was right after that Theroux filming that Marty flipped sides.
Completely agree with you. In fact, I think that My Scientology Movie actually documents Marty’s breaking point. It seems like he was contemplating something drastic at that point, and he knew he had to do something different
Marty is a complex, haunted damaged man. In a way, he’s very much like Miscavige. The things he was fighting to expose are the things he was fighting inside himself as well. Maybe this is true to a lesser degree for all those coming out of the cult.
I hope those betrayed by him can forgive him and move forward. And I hope Marty himself finds true peace.
My boyfriend and I watch Aftermath as soon as it comes out, always eager to know the latest information and hopeful to see progress being made to expose this cult. Before watching Aftermath, we had little to no knowledge of Scientology’s activities, and now we’re obsessed with it! We can’t get enough: Going Clear – book and documentary, My Scientology Movie – Theroux, and just recently watched the 60 Minutes Australia short. How a “religion” like this can STILL exist in 2019 is completely cuckoo…
We’ll keep spreading awareness by continuing to educate ourselves, and others, in this group’s activities. Keep up the amazing work yourself and Leah are doing in bringing awareness. This is the time to do it and we wish you both all the best.
Love from 2 additional UK supporters!
Mike. This is so sad. I actually liked Marty Rathbun when he was anti scientology. It is so obvious he was paid millions and now they are paying him on a schedule so he wants to keep getting his money. So sad…omg just goes to show some people will do anything for money.
This simply must be that he has decided that his lawsuit against the church wasn’t worth the aggravation and that Miscavage made some sort of deal with him – there can be no other explanation. While he looks at ease and genuine in the movie Going Clear, he looks like a hostage in his professional videos. It’s really sad that he has sold his soul to get some sort of payoff from Miscavage. Or did Scientology find some dirt on his wife that they’re blackmailing him with? It’s clear that he is working for Miscavage. That is not in doubt. The only questions are: 1) Are they paying him and he’s taking the money to betray his old friends, or 2) Is he being blackmailed?
Nobody is talking about the big down payment he made on a new home or that he and his wife started two LLC’s. Immediately after the lawsuit dropped, nor paid the lawyer anything. He may be mentally ill, but he seems to know how to work a con.
Yes, Julia! And I remember Marty saying on his blog that he could never be bought off! I guess the old adage, “never say never” applies to Marty just like the rest of us.
I”m so glad that Mike has never allowed himself to be bought off. Thank you, Mike and Leah for continuing the fight and shedding light on the evil.
Rathburn is not operating with a full deck. He and/or his family are either being threatened by this cult, or he has genuinely flipped his lid after so many years dedicated to this mess. Stand clear of this guy – wish him the best from afar and keep up your good fight.
Summers Says – I think you are the one who has it right.
What you say, “wish hi the best from afar” is good advice, Summer. Interestingly, LRH said, “that which you resist or fight, you become.” Marty certainly did resist and fight Scn and Davey for a long time and now look at him.
I liked watching those videos of Mike and Marty fishing and chatting together. I’m saddened by all of this. I liked it better when they were buddies. I’m a never-in so perhaps my perspective is a bit naive. Peace to all.
I haven’t commented here for a while. But I’m always checking in for news. I’ve moved on from being a Scientologist. Keeping what is workable and what truth is there. I am continuing on my own road to freedom going more in the direction of Eastern Philosophy. Really wonderful. As so many of us – I will always be grateful to Marty for being there and setting up his blog in the early days of this latest Exodus from the Church. But i had to comment on what the hell he is doing now. If Marty felt, in light of the fact that Leah’s show is exposing the abuses by The Church, that he wanted to point out the virtues in the tech, policy or LRH – I would have no problem with that. If he feels that way, then of course he has the right to communicate. And it would make some sense. But that’s not what he is doing. Just listened to part of part 16. Had to turn it off. His criticism of Leah was utter bullsh*t. Like adding up 6 + 6 and getting 20. And he is systematically bashing one old friend after another. Which automatically makes all of this suspicious. Again, if he wanted to correct some data that was presented on the show. Fine. But this is reading like one of the Church Anti websites. In my wildest imagination, I can’t see Marty returning to the fold. And what about his family?? So what the hell is this? I also can’t imagine Marty giving in to Blackmail. Would love to understand. I also realize that answers may not come and we all may have to just let it go. To Mike and Leah and their beautiful families, I wish the best of summer fun! I’ll be watching the show.
<3
I wonder if his wife and child are ok. His 180 makes me think they may be somehow being threatened. Really weird turnaround. And who the heck is he talking with in the videos I wonder. Any thoughts?
We can all speculate. I think Mike knows him best. Both in the “church” and outside. Betrayal from a friend hurts. And I hope , Mike, you don’t take the comment section down. Maybe more monitors. I don’t know.
Ok this is my last post on this subject, I promise…this string doesn’t seem to end! I want to share something that I consider evidence pertinent to some of the recent back and forth on whether Marty is operating from a script or not.
(BTW I’m a “never in” and I just sort of got sucked into the rabbit hole that is this crazy Scientology mess about 15 years ago and I’ve been keeping up with it ever since. I find the behavior all around quite fascinating, and it resonates beyond all of this of course…but yada yada..I just wanted to say that really quick so those troll posters aren’t taking what I say as representative of the people who have struggled so much with this situation)
Anyway, as I was saying, my real point is that I think I found some evidence today on Marty’s post. I am working on my masters in literacy, and we study something called “miscues” that tell a lot about how our readers think and behave, when it comes to literacy. Anyway, I couldn’t help but notice that he actually did a telling “miscue” reading from the text from the script in front of him. In reference to Jefferson Hawkins, he misread the word “resentment” and said “re-sentiment” , then he went back and paused, reread, and then corrected himself. I went over this with my professor today and I can tell you that this seemingly small mistake tells a literacy professor a lot, but the most important thing it says to us in this context is that the words in his hands were not written by him. He is reading an unfamiliar text. Anything else has to be inferred from that, but no question, those are not Marty’s words. Very telling….and troubling.
And there are at least two people in the room. He looks at two different directions, looking into the face of two different people.
The way Marty breaks down the argument is like what lawyers do. They tear apart any little seeming inconsistency to blow it out of proportion to make a case.
After googling Merrel Vannier, a true blue GO OSA thug and debarred lawyer, I thought Merrel and Marty may be teamed up.
Just a thought
I didn’t notice him looking at two different people…but you’re right…it is all so bizarre
please check out his LR&herTroublemakers-part 9 on 0’50”
looks like he just countinue to read something already scripted to the word.
..
Chemel1, YES it was obvious to me he was reading a text written by someone else (Davey) from the get go. It was like he was a prisoner of war being made to read a test in front of cameras, “We are well treated here. Our captors are nice.” And the fact that Marty has systematically attacked each and every one of his friends and former colleagues and big name anti Scns tells me Davey is behind all this. Davey wants a scorched earth policy regarding anyone who wants to come back in the church, or whom they have been able to pay or blackmail into speaking for them. The first thing Davey wants is for you to go on public lines and trash the people who are exposing Davey.
When that public Scn woman left Scn and lost her two kids to disconnection and then she was shot by Arnie Lerma, (RIP), when she couldn’t make it on her own, she went back to the church to try to get her kids back so that they could help her, she said the first thing the church wanted her to do was give names of all the people who were behind the attacks on the church. Davey told her to name names and then go publicly trash those people. I know this because when she changed sides yet again, she told us all this when she apologized.
Marty Rathbun’s change of direction reminds me of all those ISIS terrorists in Europe who were reported as drinking, dancing, and doing drugs before they discovered extreme Islam and turned on a dime and decided to become mass murderers. (I’m not saying Marty is anything like a terrorist – just his astonishing 180 degree turn on previously held beliefs). Ten percent of the population are some form of Cluster B personality disordered, I’m sure Marty is one of them.
These people have no morals or personal values. This is something very foreign to most of us, so we often fail to detect this in others because we want to see the best in people. Cluster Bs can mimic normal behaviour while it suits them or they are not under stress. They can appear normal at work and terrorise their family behind closed doors. I have been burnt by a Cluster B and have learnt to judge people not on their potential or good works, but on how low they are prepared to go. Do they fight dirty or preserve their dignity? How do they treat people who don’t matter? Mike Rinder has shown us how to counteract a personal attack with grace. Chalk and cheese.
Debates are always the best when the debaters are considerate and have manners 😉
Well. Marty has a “Why?” Response posted. Why does he talk in circles? In riddles? Why can he not just say what he means? In plain simple words!
I can not wrap my brain around all the shit he is saying in that recent post!
I’m replying to my own post! Who does that? Lol
But I just see that in Marty’s defense he didn’t write that post ~
Still though. I agree with one poster is is obtuse!
I just looked at today’s post on Marty’s cite…he didn’t write the “why” article about irony, but I would bet my house that he wrote that long blog response that was posted under “butler”….it totally sounds like Marty’s written cadence to me. And if that’s true, he honestly truly feels he’s been completely, unjustly victimized in some twisted way, demonizing everyone else. That butler post is actually Marty’s rebuttals/response/reason for this whole thing. It’s just so crazy how Marty twists the truth, as do others in the media to fit their agendas. This trend is truly frightening to me.
“All the world’s a stage,
And all the men and women merely players:
They have their exits and their entrances;
And one man in his time plays many parts.”
—Jaques in As You Like It
That’s true! I’ve heard that so many times I thought I was numb to it, but reading it in today’s times definitely sheds new light…nice reference!
Awwww Valkov — that was one of my Dad’ favorite qotes. You brought me a long forgotten, but precious memory….thanks. (even though you are “blue”)
Chemel says
“I just looked at today’s post on Marty’s cite…he didn’t write the “why” article about irony, but I would bet my house that he wrote that long blog response that was posted under “butler””
WRONG..thanks for the house though. I am Butler. I am a never in, have posted here once or twice but am a contributor to both Mike & Marty but don’t know either of them. I live in Raleigh, NC, am female and Mike can see my name, email, location & Paypal info.Thanks for proving my point though…no one could possibly give an opinion about Marty that doesn’t include “off with his head” unless it was OSA, trolls or Marty himself right? Seriously this is exactly the way it all started…”I’d bet my house that Marty took a deal to drop the lawsuit.” “I’ll cut off my left thumb if Marty isn’t back in the cult.” “I’d sell my kids into white slavery to get a look at the dox proving Marty masterminded 9/11.” “I sold my car to finance the investigation into the truth behind Marty’s child porn ring.” “I had to hire security because Marty keeps sneaking into my garage at night and rearranging my fishing poles.” Enough already. Marty is not everywhere. Marty is not everyone. I just happen to be sitting on the sidelines watching the villagers run by with pitchforks. I get to have an opinion just like everyone else and no, I won’t wear a scarlet letter or Star of David or whatever you’re branding non Marty haters with these days.
Marty, is that you? Come on! It’s you! Right? Well if it isn’t, then you have an uncanny line into Marty’s mind IMHO. Well done you!
Butler’s line “I get to have an opinion just like everyone else” says it all. Ditto for me. But of course if I post my opinion and it differs from the “popular” line in some group, some chemel-type will of course accuse me of being Marty. It’s a twisted kind of ad hom. So why bother?
Chemel says
Marty, is that you? Come on! It’s you! Right?
Yeah, okay you caught me. I’m also the Grassy Knoll Shooter and Jimmy Hoffa. Good luck with the house hunting.
Butler…It’s Elvis over here and I’m a realtor. We’re all good. Mike can we go fishing? There might be some bait around here.
Speculation is natural when people behave strangely. To conclude that all people who come to wrong conclusions are somehow different in decency is false.
Marty is coming to wrong psycho conclusions about people who are being harmed.
Marty is betraying friends publically and you think we are strange?
Marty has created this situation he feels compelled to battle.
Marty is blaming Mike and others as manipulating media while Mike allows all dissent and Marty allows non.
And you think this is nor worthy of speculation?
This whole madness is speculation.
But betrayal is not speculation. It is observable fact.
“Deficient in decency”
Marty was behind 9-11 ??
I knew it!
Typical for what has been posted in the last couple of years, it’s more pretentious than enlightening. It seems designed to position the author as having “altitude” over others (as Hubbard did – and acknowledged, was a tool of manipulation), while not clarifying the matter in any readily discernible way, instead merely attracting attention by engendering controversy. It’s a sort of pseudo-intellectual “click bait.”
If there’s a real irony, it’s that a blog entitled Moving On Up A Little Higher, has instead chronicled a descent into what Hannah Arendt called the banality of evil, under which people comply with immoral agendas, often out of limited self-interest or even convenience, rather than standing up for what is right. Whatever exactly is going on, what’s at work is definitely the ends-justifies-the-means, two-wrongs-make-a-right type of thinking (philosophically, utilitarianism), typically stooping to the lowest common denominator, and resulting in the thoughtless treatment of others if not actual malice.
PM, I love how you explain things to me! Seriously. Thanks for that?
healthymee I would say that debates are best when the debaters are required to use logic. Tone doesn’t determine veracity of a position. 1+1=3434 delivered with kindness doesn’t make for a productive debate.
Theta, Valkov, Espi – . I respectfully request that you continue your schoolyard fight over on FB or ar Marty’s place. Your dialogue has degenerated into the personal and not contributing a lot of value – IMHO.
Since joining Mike’s Blog community about six months ago, I believe from observation that most of us are participating because : a) we are never-ins and trying to educate ourselves about scientology, its abuses and how we can be agents of change, b) UTR’s that are trying to find their voice and gather courage to leave, or c) escapees who are sharing their experiences and courage, hoping others will follow.
Your p*****g match is getting kinda boring.
Again…..just my opinion. ?
I agree with you and have trashed responses from all concerned. Tired of this.
Thanks Mike.
Just catching up on all the madness Marty has just lost one of his best friends and I applaud you mike for taking the higher ground .
Works for me, buckeye. Go Blue!
“Theta, Valkov, Espi – . I respectfully request that you continue your schoolyard fight over on FB or ar Marty’s place. Your dialogue has degenerated into the personal and not contributing a lot of value – IMHO”.
Oh, but I was having SO much fun, OhioBuckeye, 🙂 But you are right, thanks!
Sorry, a clarification. The add is sponsored by Mark Rathbun’s youtube channel. Weird. Wonder where he go the monies for such an add?
WELL, remember that he is now a “Big being” together with COB and Tom Cruise, 😉 “The Holy Trinity”, they are being called, haha
Holy Sh*t!!! Scientology is paying for adds on youtube featuring Marty’s recent meltdown. Swear to god…..I was casually watching clips on youtube and an add called “Leah Remini and her Troublemakers part 10” popped up. Over 5 minutes of it!
Thought you ought to know……If you didn’t already.
BTW…. I live in Belgium, don’t know if these adds are playing in the US?
Ann, those are not ads. Those are the videos themselves, that he has posted on his Youtube channel. They don’t cost him anything to post.
iamvalkov, at least one of Rathbun’s videos was in fact itself put up as a paid ad that then linked to the rest of his videos. I and a number of other people encountered them, and have reported about them.
This began with the Troublemakers series, and partly accounts for why the videos had quite a few more views than the later ones in the Going Clear series. Then, “click farm” views were paid for – the videos would suddenly get 30,000 to 40,000 views within an hour (but not significantly more thumbs up or thumbs down to indicate people were really watching the videos) and then they would go back to slowly accumulating a few more views. This ended with the last two videos, possibly because complaints were made to YouTube about the obviously fraudulent activity.
The YouTube ads, at the lower end of the scale, would cost about $100 per 1,000 click-throughs (actual views). But the clicks/views can be had for $1 per 1,000.
I think everyone ex Scientologist needs deprogramming. PTSD.
Yes lots and lots of money will give anyone a meltdown. It’s pretty obvious that Marty got paid big time. Why else did Monique fire her lawyers followed by his 180? $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
I hope he sleeps well at night with all that $$$, from the blood, sweat and tears of betrayed members.
To be honest I think it may go back farther than that. “The squirrel busters” are not a realistic representation of what Scientology stalking harassment is truly like. The “golden couple” who became friends with Beck shortly before dying untimely deaths got the “new” treatment. Scientology doesn’t come to your friends doors immediately after you talk shit. They NOW slowly cultivate enemies in your community, place plants in your workplace, get to know who your haters are, and frame you and videotape you constantly in public, having a parade of “answer that and stay fashionable” jerkoffs mob you at work. At THIS point, as they took over the cult awareness network YEARS ago there is absolutely NO reason why some of their hackers aren’t immitating ANONS in order to discredit their victims.
I can no longer remember the time that I thought they were crazy but harmless. I heard the saying “no matter how bad you’ve heard Scientology is, its always worse” and I laughed, it was dead on.
How people cant open their mind to the layers of disinformation and power obsessed conspiracy the cos creates is pretty ironic considering they sell “mind fuck” as a costly, life destroying service and even have the balls to literally call the services
“Clearing your bank”
Now they are seeming to create weird far right religious groups akin to Westboro and basically hand them your name if you’re a sort of bohemian.
Hello Mike and everybody,
I am a physical remedial teacher from The Netherlands.
I think Marty is an emotionally instable individual, who masks his pain with misunderstood or irrelevant ‘facts’ to make himself look bigger and more ‘ethical’ than anyone else. He completely bypasses the human element by emotionally distancing himself on a social level.
It is called emotional depersonalisation.
And yes, it is a mental disorder.
I hope Monique can get him the help he needs. But at this point, he can do a complete 180 at any time again. It is very much like living with a schizophrenic. And I am sorry to see it.
Hey Mike – The meltdown is awful. I am sure Rathbun’s blog is now run by the church. I posted a comment this morning, and whoever is running the blog replaced the text with a long crazy OSA-like ramble on Tony Ortega and the Village Voice, complete with video links and other propaganda. Please note, that was _not_ the content of my post – they deleted my text and put that there instead. My text was about how I was on to them, and that Marty is not running the blog anymore. Their response proved it.
It’s easy to be mad at Rathbun, but I am sad about it. I am totally bummed out that he is doing what he is doing. Another person down the hole.
Keep it up, man.
Grasshopper – It might be useful if you re-post this on a future topic if the opportunity presents itself. Those short snippets might drag out for weeks and who knows what’s next.
Grasshopper, I think you are jumping to conclusions. That long post was duplicated twice, once under the name of a blog that doesn’t exist, and once under your moniker. I think its possibly a hack job. However, the post itself is anything but an “OSA-like ramble”. It is a fact-filled summation of the national outcry against Tony’s “Backpage” involvement. The quoted links include stories from NYT’s coverage of the Backpage/Tony Ortega saga. It was originally posted by Iamjanedoe in a previous thread, and someone evidently copied it an reposted it twice under false monikers, including yours.
It is the exact wording and links that Freedom Magazine has on their hate site on Tony Ortega. That’s quite the concidence.
I can only find one “hate site” about Tony Ortega but the text bears no resemblance to that long post on Marty’s thread. Please give the link to what you’re referring to.
What an odd thing to say Marildi. Try using Google as your search engine!
I did use Google. If you can find what she’s talking about, please post it.
But I see she herself hasn’t responded with a link – which makes what she said an “odd” thing to say.
So here is the issue Marildi. You apparently like to disrupt, insinuate invalidate and argue on this blog which is troll behaviour, imho.(Imvalkov/Imatroll does the same thing and so did M2C at times). I took 10 minutes and was able to validate Valerie’s comment through a Google search. I found multiple instances and links to Pro Scn sites that say the same things about Tony that showed up on Marty’s blog and in some instances it was word for word. If you really cannot find any then I don’t think you are willing to look and only intend to argue and make wrong. And I will not do your research for you by listing the sites and articles and I doubt Valerie will either! That is why I found your comment to Valerie odd. You were trying to invalidate Valerie (and continue to do so) on an issue that was easily researched and verified. I am not sure why you or Imatroll are on this site…..well actually I am pretty sure and I said it in my second sentence.
EH=Eh: “I took 10 minutes and was able to validate Valerie’s comment through a Google search.”
Oh, really? This is what she said:
“It [referring to the long post on Marty’s blog about Tony Ortega] is the exact wording and links that Freedom Magazine has on their hate site on Tony Ortega. That’s quite the coincidence.”
You may have found some piece of it that was picked up and repeated, which is something Freedom Mag would do, but if you had found that whole post, you would have posted it – and you know it. I understand you want to pile on, but your attempt is obvious BS.
She uses it all the time when she wants to. Miraldi’s motive is not sharing ideas. Her mo is disruption and protecting Hubbard.
She’s actually become an interesting specimen for observation.
I said she, but she not be a she. She may not even be a Marildi.
She IS a woman, Brian. So don’t change your gears, 🙂
Valerie posted an astonishing statement but when asked to back it up with a link, she disappeared.
Yet your smear campaign is on me?
“She’s actually become an interesting specimen for observation.”
Tell me about it, Brian!!!
Did you know that Marildi was the one who FINALLY got me totally disconnected from Scientology? She doesn’t know this, but it was her many posts at Geir’s blog that finally made me decide to drop Scn as if we’re a piece of hot coal y my hand 😉
Her posts and the ones from MS2, especially those from Lana’s, was the last push that I needed to totally quit Scn. So the delusional Scn supporters apparently have an important hat to do, AS IMPORTANT as the one from the Scn for critics: to show others how Scn is capable of turning smart individuals into delusional ronbots.
Thetaclear: “Her posts and the ones from MS2, especially those from Lana’s, was the last push that I needed to totally quit Scn.”
I have no problem being positioned with My 2 Cents. By contrast, the mentality of certain critics, like you, would all by itself be enough to make me not want to be one, or be to associated with them in any way. In other words, our feelings are mutual.
Fair enough, 🙂
Just as a small clarification regarding MS2, I was referring to the “Milestone Two blog” guys and gals, not to “My 2 cents”.
Two thumbs up, marildi.
Exactly. Miraldi talks shit over at Alanzos blog all the time about everyone. But he is gone now… Disruption is exactly her MO
I only ever made one comment total on Alanzo’s blog, and it wasn’t to talk shit about anybody.
Plus, you spelled my name wrong. Either you have me mixed up with somebody else, or you just made up an excuse to talk shit.
marildi posted a video about nondualism on Marty’s blog which got me interested. Nondualism resonates with me and marildi guided me to several other videos in answer to questions I had about it. She also brought up conversations in the general area of spirituality such as Ken Wilber, Rupert Sheldrake and others which myself and others joined in on. Sadly enough there is no time for such back and forth discussions on a daily blog. It is what it is.
Hi marildi 😉
Hey, Richard. Yes, we’ve had some good discussions.
Btw, when I made that comment on Alanzo’s blog I noticed you had quite a few comments posted on the same thread. I got the idea you were a regular there, and therefore you would know that I wasn’t. Why didn’t you speak up and say so? 😛 🙂
Thetaclear, have you actually met marildi in real life, as your surety of their gender implies? One of the things that has always seemed to me potentially suspicious, is that someone so relatively outspoken as a supposed indie, doesn’t seem to be known to anyone. I know that people may have reasons to not want to be outed, but I’ve wished that someone could vouch for knowing who marildi really is and what they are actually up to, even if they don’t get into details.
Also, I’ll sort of second your comment – marilidi has been important in helping me come to the conclusion that the preponderance of evidence is that there is little if any quantifiable “good” in Scientology, and also that there is likely an unacceptable risk of mental and spiritual harm. Their being around does serve a purpose, though perhaps not the intended one.
And marildi, sorry to sort of talk about you in front of you – but I think you’ve kind of set yourself up for that, in part given the way you have not been forthcoming in several respects. I recently heard that even some of the indies suspect you’re a troll, based on the odd ways you behave – and if you did have a healthy degree of self-reflection, I’d have expected you’d have addressed that.
PeaceMaker: “…you have not been forthcoming in several respects. I recently heard that even some of the indies suspect you’re a troll, based on the odd ways you behave.”
Vague generality and innuendo. Your usual fare.
I am afraid that you are just going to have to take my word for it as regards to her gender. My assertion wasn’t a supposition, a guess, intuition, psychic perceptions nor any of that; it was a stated FACT. You would have to excuse me, but I can’t publicly discuss (NEITHER privately), the private life of someone who trusted me with it. Not in a million years, not even with a court order. That’s just NOT who I am. I take VERY seriously the private information of others, and respect it regardless of my disagreements and/or conflicts with them. I rather die than to betrayal the trust that another person placed on me. THAT’S the difference between myself and most Scientologists, and between myself and LRH; that I have honor and integrity.
I am no saint by a LONG, LONG ways, and probably am guilty of more stupidities than anybody else here. But I CAN recognize my past mistakes, LEARN from them and try to be the best human being that I can. God knows that I not always succeed at it, but I DO try hard.
My beef with her would take another post/reply to you, which I will probably write tomorrow as it is already late for me (12:17am).
She KNOWS that I am obliged to attack her views and even herself, but I assure you it isn’t something personal for me. It is just a job I need to do for the welfare of others. Personally, I care for her and wish her the best. She likes to troll but she ain’t neither OSA, nor part of the CofS. Her reasons to remain unknown, I respect them as I have always done with anybody else, be him/her a Scientologist, a critic, a Never-in, or just about anyone. But more on Marildi tomorrow, regarding why I say the things I say about her regarding her views on Scn/LRH.
P.S to PeaceMaker,
I only asserted about her gender as I didn’t want Brian to step-up the gradient erroneously assuming that she was actually a man. There was absolutely no other reason for it.
Is there any “quantifiable good” to reading all the comments on this blog?
Marildi, what I am meaning is not your defense of Ron and Scientology that gets people all riled up; it’s that you can be nasty.
You may know you do it. You’d probably be a better spokesperson for Scientology if you would have better manners.
I mean it. This is constructive criticism for you if you can accept it as a positive communication.
Maybe you should share in your communications actuall wins. Actual Scientology happiness wins. That would be much better promo than having bad manners in communication.
Communication………. yep……….communication.
Hi marildi – Why didn’t I speak up? I prefer to stay out of internet “spats” if you want to call them that – laughter
I just stated some facts which I hope gives you some credibility. 🙂
I’d be happy to sit around and chat, but this topic is yesterdays news and I’m sure if Mike wants to bring up the Marty thing again he will.
Thetaclear, thanks for that response. As I thought I set up in my initial comment, I appreciate that you may have confidences to keep. I know that under those conditions you may not be able to answer, but I’d certainly want to know whether you had actually met marildi or just received convincing e-mails, and whether you had verified their history. I’d also like to see someone really known in the indie community, vouch for marildi as well. Otherwise, it’s still suspicious that such a vocal figure is unknown – and acts like a troll.
Valkov, I actually agree with some of your criticisms of what happens in online blogs and communities – though I think that’s just the nature of our imperfect human existence (and still hope, that we might eventually learn to do better – it would have been interesting for instance, if Rathbun had found a way to forster a more “ideal” middle path community, but even he seems to have cynically abandoned that vision). As for here at Mike’s, well, I guess I could argue that imperfect as it is, his moderation has fostered more of a “Great Middle Path” than anyone else has achieved, with diverse opinions aired and reasonable dialog. I think there’s a lot to be learned in the posts and comments here that is not only insightful but useful, and Mike is gaining support for his goal of doing something about Scientology’s abuses – including real-world actions, like getting people to write letters to legislators and government agencies.
Marildi, I was general with you because I do not want to go down the rabbit hole of one of the long nitpicking exchanges (which make the blog harder to read) that is exactly the problem with you. Mike recently tried to pin you down to not being general yourself, and you proved unwilling to get specific and answer direct questions. I suppose one thing I could say about your not being forthcoming, is that I don’t think I’ve ever seen you post anything really resembling a personal anecdote from your own life (if you have, it must be rare). If you want a specific here, one is right in front of us – that you’ve apparently not been active enough to have made contact with a prominent indie figure who could verify you’re real, in spite of apparently being devoted to the subject and quite possibly posting more to others’ blogs than any of the indies with websites themselves write or post. Which leads to another point – in spite of being perhaps the most prolific indie valence writer online, you haven’t either established a blog or website of your own, or partnered with someone to do so. You demonstrate that you lack the courage of your convictions, and are unable to accomplish anything meaningful in the real world, including even working with like-minded others – despite your endless vague claims that Scientology has somehow done something for you (and, it’s supposed to make you more able, not leave you effectively incapacitated).
And that critique applies to others here as well – there seem to be quite a few who think someone should “find the good” in Scientology, with the apparent expectation that someone else should do it, and no one motivated or able to organize it themselves. If the people who post endlessly about that, spent some of their time instead picking up extra work and saving money (or organizing sponsors in the indie world), you’d probably before long have enough wherewithal to fund some actual new scientific research into the subject.
I appreciate that M2C has at least made an eloquent case, with some buttressing of external evidence (their experience with other therapies), that they got something out of Scientology that they couldn’t get elsewhere; I’ve challenged that as possibly an exception, but it does stand out as something to regard. Marildi, if you are sincere, as you seem, I think you’d find you could make more of a contribution here if you could find a way to express yourself a bit more like M2C has – and perhaps illustrate that through some specific personal anecdotes.
PM, I’m not interested in your specious criteria of what I should say and how I should say it. I’ve already learned that no matter what I say, about myself or anything else, you’re going to negate and belittle it – and you’ll do it in a way that is superficially plausible to some people (some of whom will pile on), but to me it appears to be intentional deception on your part.
“Thetaclear, thanks for that response. As I thought I set up in my initial comment, I appreciate that you may have confidences to keep. I know that under those conditions you may not be able to answer, but I’d certainly want to know whether you had actually met marildi or just received convincing e-mails, and whether you had verified their history.”
I appreciate your curiosity and tenacity, PeaceMaker, but I wouldn’t be much of a gentleman if I were to talk in any way of the private interactions that I might or not might have had with Marildi. I can be harsh with her sometimes, but I am a gentleman who respect my interactions with others, especially with females. Suffice to say that she knows exactly how I look, and I know exactly how she looks. She even is a very attractive lady, 😉 Gee, I would probably have married her under the right circumstance. Perhaps in another lifetime, 😉 So let’s drop this theory of this “Church troll man posting as a woman”, shall we? 🙂
“I’d also like to see someone really known in the indie community, vouch for marildi as well. Otherwise, it’s still suspicious that such a vocal figure is unknown – and acts like a troll”
Oh, there are a few who know her at the Indie field, but sorry, that’s classified information, 🙂 But she DOES act as a troll. That much is true.
Marildi’s purpose is not to act as a CofS agent nor anything like that. She believes in what she says, as misguided that her utterances might be, which most of them are regarding Scn and LRH. Sadly so, she is under the undue influence of LRH. And she loves to play the Devil’s advocate role. I think it makes her feel special and smart and something that attracts the attention from others. She thrive in conflicts and dichotomies. It is like food for her soul. She is incredible smart and loves to read ANYTHING, but doesn’t apply herself so much to what she studies, or if she does, there is always this cult-mentality to it, and the submission to “authorities”, instead of a free-willed and self-determine approach to it. But she will contradict me, of course. It wouldn’t be Marildi if she didn’t, haha 🙂
Personally I like strong women who knows how to deal with men, and who are smart enough to challenge most of them. That’s her. Misguided in many of her analysis of Scn/LRH because of a fear I never have been able to pinpoint. She is not a bad person as such, but it is EXTREMELY difficult for her to accept being wrong at ANYTHING. You have NO idea how much, haha. But I see more to her than she sees about herself. If she could only learn “how to be wrong” – which is a very high level ability – she could take the world. But I can only point out the truth for others; it is their decision to look at the evidence or not.
“Valkov, I actually agree with some of your criticisms of what happens in online blogs and communities – though I think that’s just the nature of our imperfect human existence (and still hope, that we might eventually learn to do better – it would have been interesting for instance, if Rathbun had found a way to forster a more “ideal” middle path community, but even he seems to have cynically abandoned that vision)”
Valkov is not the good individual you think he is. This one, even Geir Isene – who is very well known for his freedom of thought, freedom of speech approach – felt forced to moderat and/or ban from his blog in lots of occasions. Perhaps from your point of view and those of others, this is only my opinion, but I have the ability to sense the character of others since I was a kid (although with LRH, I went blind as a bat, haha). And I can sense these incredible bad vibes from Valkov. That is DEFINITELY not a good individual. Perhaps I am wrong about my perceptions, but it would be a first time indeed.
As to dear Rathbun and his silly interpretation of the Buddhist concept (I don’t know about Marty, but I have ACTUALLY studied Buddhism and practiced it), “The Middle Way”, he has always been a delusional guy about to explode. That’s why I always stayed away from his blog. Because I could sense his potential insanity. Of course, I don’t expect that you nor anybody here to take my word for it, but I always go with my gut feeling, and so far it hasn’t failed me with the exception of LRH and Scn. That, I can’t even understand how it happened.
“As for here at Mike’s, well, I guess I could argue that imperfect as it is, his moderation has fostered more of a “Great Middle Path” than anyone else has achieved, with diverse opinions aired and reasonable dialog.”
Mike Rinder’s diplomacy and capacity to respect and accept different views is very commendable. As I have said earlier, so far I haven’t found a better moderator at any blog that I have ever participated in.
“I think there’s a lot to be learned in the posts and comments here that is not only insightful but useful, and Mike is gaining support for his goal of doing something about Scientology’s abuses – including real-world actions, like getting people to write letters to legislators and government agencies.”
Mike Rinder is the TRUE warrior. Rathbun is a “warrior-want-to-be”, 😉
(Peace Maker on Marildi) : “in spite of being perhaps the most prolific indie valence writer online, you haven’t either established a blog or website of your own, or partnered with someone to do so. You demonstrate that you lack the courage of your convictions, and are unable to accomplish anything meaningful in the real world, including even working with like-minded others – despite your endless vague claims that Scientology has somehow done something for you (and, it’s supposed to make you more able, not leave you effectively incapacitated).”
You nailed it, PeaceMaker. The word for it is, “Dilettante”. That’s the most accurate description of her. She isn’t a doer, by only a arm-chair “philosopher”. Back when I used to have many discussions with her, she wanted to argue with me about subjects she only knew intellectually, while she well KNEW that I had ACTUALLY practiced them. I’ve probably audited more than 10-12,0000 hours, with a few hundred more hours of application of other spiritual practices and methods of healing. But she wanted to argue with me about things she had only read about.
“And that critique applies to others here as well – there seem to be quite a few who think someone should ‘flind the good’ in Scientology, with the apparent expectation that someone else should do it, and no one motivated or able to organize it themselves. If the people who post endlessly about that, spent some of their time instead picking up extra work and saving money (or organizing sponsors in the indie world), you’d probably before long have enough wherewithal to fund some actual new scientific research into the subject.”
I fully agree with you on that, PeaceMaker, but that will never happen for the KSW types. But I want you to know that there are quite a few highly trained auditors out there, who are not KSW followers but have a free mind and attitude about the tech of Scn, who have actually found and kept the “good” parts, and who have also researched it in order to improve it and/or delete the bad spots from it.
Those researchers used to write articles for the “International Viewpoints Magazine” or IVy as it was called back then. Its editor was Antony Phillips. You could see guys like David Mayo, Otto Roos (a class VIII/XII from the time of the Apollo), Bob Ross, and many other old-timers LRH trained auditors from the SHSBC era, writing very interesting articles there. In the present, many Freezoners are doing such things with the tech , like a guy called Rolf Dane aka “ClearBird” (the successor of Antony as the editor of the Ivy magazine), a class 8 old-timer and research auditor who research the area of GPMs, and corrected a few things about the tech in general. Of course, I dropped a long time ago anything even closely resembling Scn methods of “healing”. Whatever few “good” parts, LRH actually COPY-PASTED (with many ADDED misinterpretations and bad uses) them form earlier works, so what’s the logic in using any of them?
The problem with those “there are ‘good’ things about the tech” individuals, is that they are usually the KSW types who are STILL under the undue influence of LRH and still think that LRH was perfect and a genius technically speaking. They just aren’t free enough to be able to filter the “bad from the good”. That takes self-determinism, pride, self-confidence, self-esteem; adjectives that normally doesn’t describe a Scientologists.
“I appreciate that M2C has at least made an eloquent case, with some buttressing of external evidence (their experience with other therapies), that they got something out of Scientology that they couldn’t get elsewhere; I’ve challenged that as possibly an exception, but it does stand out as something to regard.”
I am glad for her/him, but my conviction and CERTAINTY is – after thousands of hour of application of Scn to others, and a few hundreds to myself – that there is absolutely NOTHING that Scn can offer in terms of personal improvement, that you can’t find at other healing practices, with much better and faster results, at a MUCH lower cost, and without the risks inherent in Scn. So that assertion from M2C regarding having found something in Scn that she/he couldn’t find elsewhere is only an evidence of how little educated and trained she/he is at other spiritual practices/healing methods. I am an ACTUAL practitioner WITH results. I am no arm-chair philosopher. I talk from ample experience.
“Marildi, if you are sincere, as you seem, I think you’d find you could make more of a contribution here if you could find a way to express yourself a bit more like M2C has – and perhaps illustrate that through some specific personal anecdotes.”
I don’t think she will, but good luck with it!!! 🙂
Thetaclear, Geir has never banned me from his blog or suppressed my posts. I probably have hundreds of posts there. Maybe you have me confused with another poster whose name starts with the letter “V.”?
Otherwise, I wonder why you would post such an invented falsehood about me?
I said “felt forced to in lots of occasions”; I didn’t say that you was actually banned and was never allowed to post anymore. But let’s do something. Go over at Geir and tell him that Peter Torres aka “Thetaclear” is telling at Mike’s blog that he had said at his blog that he tought many times that you and Marildi were trolls, and that he had decided to ban you two in many ocassions, but then changed his mind in favor of Freedom of Speech in spite of yours and Marildi’s hostile and troll-like nature. Tell him to come here and deny it. Can you do that?
I WAS there when Geir made such originations about you and Marildi, and I WAS there when Geir did the exercise to look over ALL your posts and ALL posts from Marildi looking for instances in which you and her had publicly ever apologized OR ever accepted that you were wrong about ANYTHING, and he couldn’t find not even ONE single instance, not even one. Tell him to come here and deny it. That Peter Torres is waiting for him to do it. You do that, and he come here and deny it, and I will PUBLICLY apologize to you. How’s that? Do you feel like doing that? Geir is friend of Rinder. He doesn’t mind coming here for a visit.
It seems that you haven’t been taking your medication for delusion. I warned you about the consequences of stop taking them, 😉
Hi PeaceMaker,
I wanted to expand a little bit on the subject of the so called “good parts of Scn” that the Scn supporters talk so much about.
Their basic premise is :
“LRH and the ‘Tech’ are separate entities, and therefore – even though that he ‘might’ (they never fully accept it) have committed a ‘few’ mistakes in judgement – the ‘Tech’ is something else and it has many workable parts that should be preserved”.
The above is basically the general argument coupled with the one about Scn’s bad parts being a direct result from DM’s alterations of the “Tech” and not the authorship of LRH. That last addition to the general argument, you hear it more from the most strict KSW followers, but not that much from the more liberal Indies, especially the Freezoners.
The basic mistake with the general premise is a misguided and faulty attempt to try to separate the man from his “researches” as one can do, for example, with scientists and their discoveries.
A great percentage of the most influential scientists of the past, had a lot of emotional conflicts and even a bit of psychosis. Some of them were even quite selfish and a bit evil with their colleagues. I am a student of the history of science, one of my great passions. One of the greatest ones of the 20th century – Tesla – even had a pigeon friend he used to feed and talk with a lot. Yet he gave us what turned society into a modern one.
Do their emotional instability and even their psychosis make their discoveries of fundamental laws any less valid? Of course not! Their discoveries are phenomena that can be tested in laboratories by anyone, arriving to the same conclusions than they arrived to. In other words, we can separate the man (or the woman, of course) from his discoveries/techniques/inventions.
But in the case of Scientology, IT IS a subject that deals with the mind, meaning, with behavior, ethics, morals, etc. Its processes are allegedly intended to improve the lives of others by making them better human beings. And not just necessarily in terms of abilities, but in terms of GOOD BEHAVIOR, a key to success. So in this particular case one just CAN’T separate the man from the technology. The behavior and attitudes of such a man are KEY factors in determining the quality of ethics and workability of his techniques. The mental state, spiritual enlightenment, and spiritual abilities of such a man are KEY factors in analyzing the workability or lack thereof of his system of beliefs and techniques.
And it should be VERY obvious that LRH DIDN’T pass the test as he was not in any way, shape or form, a reflection of what he wrote about, neither in terms of abilities gained, nor in terms of ethical behavior towards his fellow beings. So how in hell is it something sensible to look for the “good” parts of something created by a sick man? Do you see my point?
And even, even if some “good” parts could be found here and there as I am sure they exist, is it something wise to support and validate the work of someone who abused the Human Rights of others so much? Is someone now to tell me that LRH didn’t violate the basic Human Rights of others in many of his writings?
Let’s just take one, just ONE example of some basic policy from LRH. One where there can’t be any disagreement that it belonged to HIM, and that it is not an alteration from DM. One from the HCOB 5 Nov 1967, “Critics of Scientology”, originally issued as an article in Ability199 of the same date. I quote from it :
“Now, get this as a technical fact, not a hopeful idea. Every time we have investigated the background of a critic of Scientology, we have found crimes for which that person or group could be imprisoned under existing law. We do not find critics of Scientology who do not have criminal pasts. Over and over we prove this.” LRH
An alleged “spiritual leader”; an alleged defender of Human Rights; the one who wrote the great article “How to Study a Science” later changed to “How to Study Scientology”; is telling us that the ONLY possible reason why ANYBODY ever criticizes Scn is because they have “crimes from which they could be imprisoned under existing law”. He tries to FORCE his “technical fact” on us, violating his own “How to Study a Science” article (“A New Slant On Life” book, 1965 edition) in which he wrote :
“So, the only advice I can give to the student is to study a subject for itself and use it exactly as stated, then form his own opinions. Study it with the purpose in mind of arriving at his own conclusions as to whether or not the tenets he has assimilated are correct and workable. Compare what you have learned with the known universe. Seek for the reasons behind a manifestation, and postulate the manner and in which direction the manifestation will likely proceed. Do not allow the Authority of any one person or school of thought to create a foregone conclusion within your sphere of knowledge. Only with these principles of education in mind can you become a truly educated individual.” LRH
Now due to this “technical fact” of LRH about the ONLY reason why anyone criticizes Scn is due to undisclosed “crimes”, he then adopt the attitude of the rightness of attacking such critics violently and uncompassionate because of course, “Scientology is man’s only chance to spiritual salvation”, and that “fact” has been used by HIM (not just by DM) to destroy many lives and to force disconnection from the critics.
Now dear PeaceMaker, we only need that policy, just THAT ONE so as to be justified in totally dismissing ANYTHING from a man who thinks like that. Why would anyone support and even disseminate the works of a man with such a disrespect for the freedom of thought and self-determinism of others, is a mystery to me. Why would anyone want to save the “good” parts of something full of booby-traps and false assumptions, is something I just can’t think with. Well, I did it myself some time ago, so I understand the mechanics of it, but damn! I kept an open mind to the counter arguments, and I EVOLVED and CHANGED in a relatively short time. But I see people stuck in Scn for even DECADES after they left the CofS!!!!
If the argument is, “Scientology’s technology has helped others”, I can counter argument that with, “There is absolutely NOTHING that Scn tech can do for others that others methods (REAL ones!!) of therapy/healing/improvement can’t do. For every “win” with Scn I can show 10 of similar wins with others methods which are faster, a lot cheaper (some of them even for free), and without any inherent dangers to it nor abusive dogmas. Of course, those success stories I am talking about are anecdotal evidence, but so are the alleged “wins” from Scn, or aren’t they?
So, if there exist workable methods of therapy out there which can even be learned by ourselves and applied to ourselves (some of them at least), which do not contain abusive or fundamentalistic dogmas, and who were created by good people who had the best interest of others in their minds and hearts, just why on hell do we need to “save” and use the “good” parts of Scientology? Is it just me or isn’t that purpose a little bit crazy? I rest my case. 🙂
Brian, don’t feel bad, or left out. This blog and others have tons of “interesting specimens” that make posts on them. And they even have some real people on them, at times!
Thetaclear, thanks for taking the time to write out your thoughts in those last two comments, and share some information. To keep it brief, I think we see things pretty much the same way – but even if we had some disagreements, your obvious experience and thoughtfulness would still garner my respect. If you stick around for a bit, perhaps we can discuss things further on new topics where it’s relevant.
I hope that a few observers will have read your valuable comments. One thing I do want to note, in the case of Hubbard’s work, where personal traits are relevant, as you pointed out, he not only went to pains to claim that his personal history and his character buttressed the validity of the work, but conversely, posited that others’ supposed personal shortcomings undermined the reliability of their work, when he (or his surrogates) attacked detractors; thus Scientology has a virtual doctrine, that personality and credibility are inherently linked, and rise or fall together. It sometimes seems to me that the tech loyalists are on the verge of proclaiming a doctrine that Hubbard was just some sort of bizarre profane vessel for higher truth (I almost hate to give them ideas).
p.s. marildi, my recent comments to you actually came out of some soul-searching as to whether I could imagine some role you could play here that would contribute. I’ve challenged you, because your behavior here seems disruptive and troll-like – and I think we’ve now established, that is well known, and you must surely be aware of it yourself. As for your thinking there might be “intentional deception on [my] part,” I can assure you that you are mis-reading the situation. I once wondered the same about you – but managed to verify the reality of the matter as much as I could, thanks in large part to Thetaclear.
Why do you need to hate site? You talked enough shit about Tony all the time when you were at Alanzos blog. You bashed Tony right along with Alonso all that time so now he’s gone so now you’re over Marty’s now you come over here and you’re so two-faced!
And I’m relatively new to all of this but I’m not heard good things about you at all
“You bashed Tony right along with Alonso all that time so now he’s gone so now you’re over Marty’s now you come over here and you’re so two-faced!”
See my comment above. I have not been a poster on Alanzo’s blog.
As for Marty, a number of my comments over there have been in disageement with his takes, including to do with Mike. I call it like I see it, both here and there.
You may be new, but I think I’ve already got your number.
I agree with Grasshopper. I have posted several comments on Marty’s blog, some even critical, but my latest, where I obviously nailed what is going on was not posted. Hmmmmm. Let’s face facts here, Marty is so far beyond giving a shit what anybody thinks about him and DM is so far beyond caring what Kool-Aid drinkers think about he spends their money that it takes no Einstein to see that he and Marty have made a deal that benefits both, particularly if DM paid Marty 5 or 10 million. Marty and his family are set for life and DM is set for Season 2 of The Aftermath, after which he will be toast.
All that aside; I’m not arguing any of that. I am talking about the two redundant posts that appear to have been posted by someone under fake monikers, including Grasshoppers. The ones that are about Tony’s history with the Village Voice and Backpage, with links to various media about him.
fact-filled summation? bullshit. i’m not disputing the information – i haven’t read much about it. but the post is clearly inflammatory in it’s “summation” of the “facts”.
also, it was posted again in response to “part 9” under the name COB. it’s a good bet that “COB” is ironically named, that he/she sent something critical, and their post was replaced.
It is no more inflammatory than the compendiums of CoS misdeeds published daily by various “critics” of scientology. The tone is the same.
that’s not the point. now you’re just playing dumb, which is especially offensive given how much of a crusader you’ve been for ‘authentic, objective discourse.’
” I am sure Rathbun’s blog is now run by the church….” I agree with Grasshopper. It is also probably safe to assume that other social media accounts of the Rathbuns are either controlled by OSA or at least is accessible to them. Not to mention email and other communications past or present..
Marty acts like an OSA operative and I think everybody should be aware of the implications.
It’d be one thing if he went back to promoting Scientology. Ideal Orgs? Hawking books, CDs and courses? Promoting ill-attended events? It would be comedy worthy of the Thursday Funnies, but hey, whatever makes you feel better about that under-the-table settlement with Dave. But Marty’s gone right to the dregs of the Scientology playbook and “attack the attacker”, “shame the victim”, just like Ron advocated. To turn on victims and his friends just to pump up his own ego as “second in command”? The man has no honor and a vastly inflated sense of self-importance.
He keeps posting these daily slanderous videos. It makes me sick. His blogs name should be changed to ” how low can Marty go”
There is no way someone would alienate themselves and trash so many good friends without the motivation of $$
I guess it’s a bit late to post my remarks. I just find it aggravating and I am venting
This is backwards. If Marty wanted to make money, he could hook up with Mike and Leah and the Aftermath, or some other show.
Huh? No contributors are paid on the show.
I mean in more of a producer type capacity somewhere, not as a guest on your show. Or making a movie. I think he’s had opportunities offered to him, but that’s just a guess.
Stop guessing. You clearly don’t know what you are talking about.
There are lots of people guessing, here in your blog comments. I don’t see you telling them to stop.
Yeah you are right. They are not guessing about what you are guessing about. You are here implying it stating there is some validity to the videos and the claims that Aftermath is contrived “fake news”.
Have you seen his posts over at Marty’s blog, Mike?
I’m just here to make a funny. Like this one. Let’s all enjoy the weekend and watch the fireworks and leave our phones and tablets home and be thankful we are in the land of the free.
Hello I-am-a-troll-valkov, having fun yet? 😉
I’m having fun calling out your lies, like the one about Geir banning me. Never happened. Care to comment on that?
I already commented about it. I am just waiting for you to contact Geir and tell him that I am waiting for him to deny the clarification and explanation that I posted as a reply to you a little while. The ball is in your court.
Hey, I-am-the-troll-valkov, I think you might have forgotten to take your medication today. Now bad boy, you know better than not to take it! 🙂
Valkov’s always been that way. He won’t tell you this, but he teamed up with a couple of other people at Marty’s blog one time to try to Dead Agent me and figure out who I was. One of them came to the conclusion that, because of my handle, I’m Hispanic, and made presumptions about me based on that. Sorry, guys, total white boy here.
Espi, I’d love to re-read those posts. Can you point me to those threads? Because I don’t recall ever knowing anything or posting anything about you other than that you were bluntly and doctrinairely negative about scientology. I suppose you would say I am doctrinairely positive about scientology, but what do you really know about me?
By the way, nice of you to pile on with the others. It gives me a warm feeling.
Oh but I believe you, Espiando. This guy used to drive Geir crazy. He is now over at Marty’s ass-kissing him even that it is OBVIOUS that Marty is now defending and supporting a church that is guilty of so many human rights abuses. What kind of a sick man would support that? Only delusional ones like him, I am afraid.
Regarding the supposition of you being Hispanic, it is SO obvious that you are American by your well command of English. You can tell an Hispanic from his writing. We normally don’t use or know the little cultural slants of the language that are usual with Americans.
But hey, I-am-a-troll-valkov, I am Hispanic, “¿Cómo estás pinche de pendejo?”, haha
When Rathbun first got out and then became active, he was supported by people who provided him quite a bit of money – some of whom he has now turned on, and attacked.
It’s possible that he now has new friends and patrons who support what he is doing – and perhaps are supporting him. Some of the independent scientologists have really crazy conspiracy theories about what is going on, so there are all sorts of reasons that people might back him.
It is a strange thing that Marty Rathbun did such a total turn-around regarding the CofS. After years of recounting true stories of the abuses done, in hundreds of taped interviews, printed stories, writings on his and other blogs, books, legal depositions and testimonies, and after being personally harassed in many ways by his former “church”, Marty Rathbun has completely changed his every stance and opinion, and now refutes everything he said prior, drops his lawsuit, gives private emails to the church to be used against former friends, and makes a series of videos talking bad about every one of his former friends, saying the complete opposite of what he has said before. Just looking at this event, it’s incredible. Shocking. Confounding. Of course people ask what the heck is going on?
We wonder, why? This is such strange behavior. If he has become disillusioned, why not just quietly fade out of sight, stop participating in interviews, etc. Why the need to trash former friends, and make videos contradicting everything you have said for the past 10 years? I guess I could understand being mad at a few former friends or associates, but every single one of them? And then to do things that will directly harm them? For what purpose? It just doesn’t make sense. This is not something that is logically done.
So the conclusions seem to be either a) he isn’t in control of his mental faculties; or b) he is being controlled by his former “church”.
My first thought was that he is being directed by the CofS, that they have some influence on him, through some means of persuasion, whether it is some type of threat of harm, or some type of monetary incentive. There is an agenda to his set of short videos, the first of which starts at refuting Going Clear passages about Miscavige hitting his ‘pre-clear’ and taking steriods for asthma which the book speculates could have caused his short stature. What a strange subject to begin with, and I ask who has an interest in that in particular? That was one of the first items on his list of notes. It is important to someone.
Each subject that Rathbun talks about is for a certain purpose. Each video specifically refutes certain statements or people, in ways that will directly benefit the CofS, and aid them in the things they have an interest in doing, such as reassuring parishoners, or keeping their tax-free status with the IRS; it isn’t just random ramblings of a disturbed man, rather he is specifically addressing very pertinent items. There is a purpose to these videos. Each could be viewed on it’s own as an answer to someone questioning a specific topic of concern, such as Leah Remini’s show, or Paul Haggis, or “Going Clear” etc., and a person could easily be directed to only view a video which will address whatever the person’s concern is, without having to watch the entire talk.
The videos, combined with the other changes, in his blog, his attitude and behavior, and dropping the lawsuit against the CofS, look like he is being influenced to do these things. Speculation runs to an inside deal with the CofS to stop the harassment, and to compensate him monetarially. Some believe he is being pressured or threatened in some way to do what he is doing. We, the average observer, don’t know if his actions are voluntary, or he is being manipulated in some way. We do know the CofS has a history of coercing people and using “dirty tricks” as numerous real-life stories of this exist throughout years of reporting on the CofS, and people always say look at the case of Bob Minton, the millionaire businessman who headed the Lisa McPherson trust and was avidly against the CofS until one day he just flipped, did a total about face and supported them… it came to light after his death that he was indeed being blackmailed by the CofS. So, there’s that.
The other train of thought runs to “he just went crazy”, snapped, cracked under pressure, was mentally imbalanced in the first place, never truly left the cult mindset, etc. It seems like a lot of his former associates are leaning towards this explanation. I was surprised to see how many people apparently feel this way. But with so many people who personally know him that have this thought, this has to be a consideration. I do not personally know the man, so I can’t form a definitive explanation of why he is doing what he is doing. All I know for sure is that it is very unusual for a person to do what Rathbun has done, and given the fact that it benefits the church, it’s suspicious.
I understand the anger and hurt that his former friends and associated feel at his abrupt U-turn and personal attacks. It is a violation of trust. It is harmful and hurtful. I’m mulling over the question though, that if such anger the best response to a man who may be either a) mentally ill and/or b) being coerced to do what he is doing. The people in charge of the organization who is benefiting from his about-face are probably getting a lot of satisfaction and enjoyment out of this turn of events. Not only that these videos that are so helpful to them are being made but that their former enemy #1 is now being vilified and hated by everyone who used to associate with him. Rathbun is really in no-man’s land now, stuck between an organization that will never truly accept him back, and his former friends and supporters who will never trust or forgive him.
To make a long story short- it’s about $$$$$$$$$$
That’s something we don’t know. Unless you have inside information, it’s just speculation. My post above was trying to take a comprehensive look at the situation to reach a logical conclusion instead of simply making judgmental statements. The fact is, we just don’t know why Marty Rathbun has changed his stance. But, as I said, he’s in a no-man’s land now, not accepted by the CofS but never can return to his former life and friends. Walking in a ditch between one side and the other. Not a fun life.
T.J., Marty doesn’t think he needs to be in one of those two “sides.” He’s in neither.
But I really admire your overall attitude: “My post above was trying to take a comprehensive look at the situation to reach a logical conclusion instead of simply making judgmental statements.”
You remind me of the poem “If” by Rudyard Kipling.
“If you can keep your head when all about you
Are losing theirs and blaming it on you,
If you can trust yourself when all men doubt you,
But make allowance for their doubting too…”
Marildi, thank you for the compliment. That’s a good poem, I also like this quote by Aristotle: “It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it”. I’d rather say it is the mark of an open mind.
In my post, I was trying to look at this situation analytically, to better understand what caused this abrupt turn-around. So for someone to trivialize my post by incorrectly summing it up to say it’s all about money, is annoying. Anyone is entitled to their opinion, but don’t misinterpret what I’m saying, that’s all. But, that’s the nature of a public board, there is no shortage of people ready and willing to shout out their opinion or judgement in harshest of terms. My choice is whether or not to post. This forum and the people here have been good to me for the past 4 years that I’ve been posting here, so I’ll stick around.
As far as you saying “Marty doesn’t think he needs to be in one of two sides” – are you speaking for him, has he said this to you? Otherwise, how can you say what Marty is thinking? I don’t think any of us are mind-readers, and until I see him making a video saying directly “this is what I think about this”, I can’t take anyone else’s interpretation of his thoughts.
And, I am not saying that he has to be on one ‘side’ or another, what I am pointing out is that what he has “changed sides” because what he is saying now in his new series of videos directly contradicts statements he has made in the past. I have watched some of his new videos, then played videos of him from 5 or 6 years ago, where he directly states the exact opposite. He is now contradicting himself and what he said earlier. So, in a video from 6 years ago he says “x happened”, now he says “x never happened, it’s invented.” Or he stated “we did *this*” now he says “we never did this” So yeah, he is “changing sides”.
As far as being on “a side” or another – if someone is so wishy-washy, that he says one thing, then later states the exact opposite of what he said before, how is anyone supposed to put any stock in what he says at all? How can anyone believe something he is saying now if it directly contradicts what he has said in the past? And how can anyone trust him after this?
OK, I am putting way too much thought into this situation that does not directly affect me, so thankfully (you’re welcome) I am done posting about it now. I wish every one a happy Wednesday, and enjoyable rest-of-the-week, sending love and positive thoughts and wishes to you all. To Mike, Leah, and anyone else who has been hurt by his comments, you have my empathy and best wishes and support in what you are doing (shining light on dangerous cult practices) and I hope you continue doing as your conscience dictates for the benefit of others. A special place in my heart for those who have been disconnected from family members or loved ones, always sending out hopes and prayers for your reunification, and soon! 🙂
—
tl;dr (T.J. says try to look at all angles of a situation and not be harshly judgmental, keep hope and faith, have a happy week, love y’all)
T.J. since he is apparently allowing the CoS to post his vids on the scamology websites, it IS about $ (if they are on those sites, I couldn’t find them) because he wouldn’t let them do that without compensation. AND, they couldn’t do it without getting cremated in court for copyright violations.
Hi Mike Wynski 🙂 Yes, that’s a logical conclusion. It just wasn’t a summary of my thoughtful post, that’s what I was objecting to. Anyone can post their opinions, that’s fine, but it would be nice if a person would actually read the post they are responding to and make intelligent comments about what was said rather than spouting out harsh one-liners. There’s no shortage of people saying “it’s blah*@&!$” or whatever, but why tack it on below what I posted? Geeze. That’s my point. Final thought: I have no idea where else Marty Rathbun’s videos show up, and I’ve heard they are advertised, I just view them on YouTube.
– Now, I’m off to walk in the sunshine, feel the wind on my face, admire flowers, birds and nature and love life unconditionally for the next 40 minutes… until the cold hard reality of my tiny bland office cubicle, stack of paperwork and computer screen demands my return. 🙁 sigh.
T.j. I have NO idea what wound you up so. Take a deep breath. I agree with your thought process on this subject.
Mr. Wynski, I don’t know either, I guess this whole situation is just stressful. I feel bad for Mike, Leah, and everyone else who is hurt because of this, and am perplexed by it all. It’s actually none of my business though, and I can leave it alone now.
Have a happy week! 🙂
You too T.j. It’s Miller time 🙂
I read your post
I had nothing to add to it besides my opinion. I respect yours and I do not appreciate and won’t tolerate being bothered because of mine
We should at least agree to respect one another and varied opinions in an open forum
T.J. : “That’s something we don’t know. Unless you have inside information, it’s just speculation. My post above was trying to take a comprehensive look at the situation to reach a logical conclusion instead of simply making judgmental statements. The fact is, we just don’t know why Marty Rathbun has changed his stance.”
With all due respect, TJ , but you are being quite naive here, or you are just too much of a saintly individual, 🙂
In a court of law – which dynamics isn’t what we are doing here in this blog – ANYONE is innocent until PROVEN guilty beyond ALL reasonable doubt, and the burden lies in the accuser to prove that another is guilty of anything. To that universal principle of Justice, I have always adhered to.
The above having been said and clarified, when we are under attack (“we” as in the people that Rathbun is attacking with plain and vicious LIES), it is only NATURAL and EXPECTED that we theorize – and even assert – about the reasons behind such attacks. I mean, it isn’t as if we are going to ask Marty , “Hey ”middle-way’ boy, why the fuck are you being a disgusting liar?”, and he is just going to come clean and spit his withholds. So we are forced to make our “best guesses” based on the AVAILABLE evidence (EVEN if only circumstantial), which in this case points out to the “He made a deal with DM” theory. Why? Let’s analyze what we have so far, shall we:
1. Marty has a very well known Scn mentality of snobbishness and self-righteousness. A glimpse at his articles is enough to see this. He even tried – in the stages where he STILL considered himself a Scientologist – to look as smart or smarter than LRH (he was never). His many blog posts had this air of superiority where, even though he hadn’t studied that many spiritual philosophies for that long, he tried to appear as this great “expert” at it where he was even adventurous enough to create his own “synthesis” of them as if trying to assert where all those spiritual teachers had been all wrong. Doesn’t this sounds like “LRH style”?
You can see this with Marty’s GROSS misunderstanding and misinterpretation of the Buddhist concept of the “Middle Way” where he confused it with the concept of “not siding with any extremes” as in the “Pro Scn v/s the Anti” conflic. The “Middle Way” ISN’T about choosing or not choosing sides. ANY REAL student of Buddhism knows this.
What this “Middle Way” meant for Marty is a VERY critical, convenient, and emotionally unattached way to deal with the subject of Scn; in short, an irresponsible way to deal with a REAL problem. “They (the anti(s) and the Scn followers) are BOTH extremists; a different manifestation of the SAME cult phenomena”, was Marty’s viewpoint.
So Mary had ALREADY distanced himself from BOTH, the Scn critics and the Scn supporters, like 1-1/2 to 2 years ago.
2. He strangely backed out of the law suit when according to many layers, he had good chances of winning it. He even fired the lawyers, an excellent strategy if he was planning in arriving at a close-door financial agreement with the CofS, as NO evidence would be left of such event because there wouldn’t even be any court documents to dig out and make public. The PERFECT scenario for both him and the CofS.
3. He began to snap, to lose it, at the end of the “My Scn Movie”. A CLEAR DM-like (andScn-like) knee jerk reaction.
4. He started filming a series of short videos allegedly “Dead Agenting” the sources and information of the BEST anti Scn PR champaigns of the last 2-4 years. But dead agenting with LIES he KNOWS to be lies, because we can always dead agent something that is false; that’s the REAL use of the technique.
5. Those videos have a VERY high quality and definition to them, in EXACTLY the same style as the Church’s: sit with a “nice” suit, like talking with a reporter/interviewer that is to our side but not seen in the video (like Time Cruise’s videos). That technique allegedly gives the video an air of “professional journalism”; of “truthfulness”.
6. The videos are SHORT and each covering a very specific subject, as they SHOULD be if they are to be used as dead agent tools to post online. We can the EASILY refer to any of them, or send copies to reporters etc.
6. The videos are STRATEGICALLY done, OSA style, and ARE scripted. That’s why he has to look down to his notes at many points on his videos. Because he needs to make sure that he covered EVERY point that he was supposed to cover (it seems that he is getting old and out of practice, haha). One only does this when one is working in coordinating with another or others.
7. Number 6 above can EASILY be part of the financial agreement as part of the “Deliver and effective blow……” step of the Liability formula, where he is Expected to distance himself from the Scn critics. There is NO fucking WAY in hell that DM will pay just like that as he did with Debbie. Those were a another times when the Media and the escapees were very fearful of Scn’s “harass and attack the critics” tactics. Besides, Marty had ALREADY stopped criticizing the CofS since quite some time ago, and had become a relatively unimportant individual in the fight against the CofS. He was NO LONGER this “Anti Scn warrior” to attack, haha, sorry for the cynism. “Warrior” my ass.
8. Some reliable sources tell me that Marty was financially broke. In fact, he could lose his house.
9. Now if Debbie, who is a LOT more ethical and conscious than Rathbun, accepted a pay from DM to keep her mouth shut and forget to talk about Scn ever again, and decided to use the money she got as a very well deserved price for all her humiliating years in Scn, isn’t it VERY logical to assume that Rathbun did the same? In his particular case – as opposed with Debbie’s case – he had ALREADY distanced himself from both the Scn supporters and the SCN critics. That makes it VERY easy for someone who is BROKE, and who basically doesn’t give rat’s ass about Scientologists or about the Scn critics, to make a deal to get paid for all that he had gone through with Scn related matters.
If one connect all the dots, dear TJ, then the BEST guess based in all the circumstantial evidence available (which is ANYWAY the ONLY type that we will ever have available), is the one that most people in this blog hold as Marty’s basic motivation for his behavior. Money can be a VERY strong motivation, TJ. Don’t underestimate its power.
Hi Thetaclear 🙂 Thank you for taking the time and effort to lay it all out on the line here, I read the whole post, can see the wisdom in your words, and you gave me a lot to think about. You are right, I’m probably naive and I do tend to think the best of everyone, and often end up disappointed because of this. Thanks again for your thoughtful post.
hi T.J., i for one appreciate your efforts to remain open minded given the lack of facts and the incomplete picture we in the ASC have. it bothers me as much as (i think) it bothers you to see mind-reading and suppositions presented as facts – REGARDLESS of the subject or context. it’s how i got into trouble on tony’s blog, pointing out that no one KNOWS what is going on in tom cruise’s head as far as why he’s not seeing his daughter. i was accused of being a Scio troll for merely acknowledging that there could be other factors of which we are not aware, and that it’s entirely possible that it’s not his choice.
anyway, speaking as someone who is NOT defending marty’s actions in anyway, i appreciate your efforts to remain objective. i don’t think that makes you naive.
“Hi Thetaclear, Thank you for taking the time and effort to lay it all out on the line here, I read the whole post, can see the wisdom in your words, and you gave me a lot to think about.”
You are most welcome, TJ, 🙂
“You are right, I’m probably naive and I do tend to think the best of everyone, and often end up disappointed because of this. ”
That’s quite all right, and I didn’t mean it as an insult. In fact, like you, I tend to think the best of everyone. I did it regarding both LRH and DM, and it took me quite some time to accept the accumulated evidence that supported their criminal and/or abusive actions, as I was always giving them the benefit of the doubt. Perhaps LRH was right when he said that the most difficult thing for an individual to confront is evil, 🙂 I know that for me that was the case.
I do not have anything personal against Rathbun – just as I do not have it with anybody else – but sometimes we must speak up and expose the liars for what they are to make sure that others don’t make the mistake of trusting them. It doesn’t really matter if Marty got millions, thousands, a few dollars, or zero from DM. It just doesn’t really matter. What matters is that is lying about known facts and attempting to destroy the reputation of good people while he is defending a criminal group, the CofS. And showing compassion and “understanding” to that, is very misguided, IMHO.
One thing is to have a forgiving attitude towards our fellow beings, and another entirely different thing is to “tone down” in some way, and try to rationalize the bad actions from others. Believe, that doesn’t help them.
Did Rathbun got pay by DM? Most probably yes, but whether he did or didn’t does not change the known facts and their inherent destructiveness.
“Thanks again for your thoughtful post.”
Thank YOU for your great manners! 🙂
Thetaclear, speaking of “liars”, are you going to respond to my post about the blatant falsehood you posted about me, that I was “banned” or suspended from Geir’s blog many times. I have never been banned by Geir and have probably hundreds of posts there, although not recently. Since you operate off “vibes” and “gut feelings”, you will understand if I say my gut feelings about you are less than kind.
Thank you Thetaclear for this thoughtful post
You are most welcome, Kimberly! 🙂
Partially a good analysis, regarding other names than Marty unfortunately just an uninformed tattle tale’s gossip.
Well, money is one theory, I personally believe a page from the OSA playbook is more likely. ‘Find what he wants to protect and attack it’
More probable than money is the CO$ found something that threatens his kid and family. He looks like as if his balls are tied up in a screw clamp and the CO$ is having their hands firmly on the handle.
The other factors just make it easier to follow orders.
I’ve said the same thing, Gerhard. Per OSA’s playbook, “Find out what he wants to protect and attack it.” The Squirrel Busters did that on camera during the filming of Louis Theroux’ movie when they asked pointedly about the son’s adoption and foster care etc. The son is what he wants to protect and they came in on that and shortly after that Marty had his meltdown on camera. But whether Marty took a settlement or not is unimportant. The important thing is he is lying and harming people that he used to like and support and his lies are being published on the church website and other places.
It’s about that time. Another snippet video about to be posted ???? I’ll eat lunch before. It will be my dessert.
Probably a bit late to get noticed but I’d say this seems significant in some way. The new STAND website has all the usual hate pieces on critics… but Marty isn’t there at all. No reference to him shows up on the on site search facility either.
Go take a look.
https://www.standleague.org
They want Marty forgotten, not promoted, because he has done more to expose and damage the reputation of the CoS than anyone else, and all that negative information is still right there on his blog, going back several years. And his sidebar has about 30 links to negative media about the Church, a lot of interview videos and newspaper reports and that kind of thing. They should know better than to mention him or promote him to their flock, which is why I’m surprised any of these videos are on scientology’s smear sites. These videos are a Trojan Horse. If the CoS adopts them, they will be hastening their own downfall.
They want Marty forgotten, not promoted
They are promoting his videos on their sites.
You cannot even confront the facts right before your eyes. Nobody is forcing scientology to promote his videos. They are doing it. It doesn’t go away because you opine “they want Marty forgotten.”
Surely you are really not this stupid?
I think the church is promoting Marty’s videos simply because the videos discredit the Aftermath docuseries – no matter what viewers think of Marty himself. Whether they consider him to be a bad guy or a good guy – either way would still serve the purpose to them.
Last line should be: …either way would still serve the purpose to PROMOTE them.
The sheeple are commenting that he is doing A-E because the videos appear on official Scientology websites. They accept his current statements as truths and ignores the earlier ones as lies he is now finally correcting after coming to his senses.
What website. Send it to my email I really don’t like going that webpage. Who knows what cookies they can tag from a viewer.
Sorry I just realized. You may not want to share you email. Lol. I just hate going to the Scientology website. Or I’ll comment on your Twitter
Stand?
Then, who is the intended audience of the videos, when the CoS promotes them? To whom are they promoting Freedom mag, and the STAND website? Don’t you think they are opening Pandora’s Box, by promoting anything Rathbun to their own parishioners? I think it is likely to backfire on them, because Marty’s blog still has every word of the negative things he ever published about them, and the sidebar of over 30 media links, like sitting down friendly with Ursula Caberta ! That’s like sitting down with the Devil, according to CoS.
It is true I am ignorant of a lot. I’ve had nothing to do with the CoS for decades, beyond getting my money back from them, I was never on staff, much less Sea Org. I was always kind of an outside observer. But I think they are grasping at straws if they are promoting Marty’s videos to their own.
Valkov, the obvious answer is that the intended audience are Scientologists in “good standing” or those considered “disaffected” in some way by the church.
Look at it this way, if the CofS or Marty were to close down the blog posts critical of Scn and/or LRH, it would look just TOO suspicious. But now it appears as if Rathbun has “come to senses” and understood how “wrong” and “misguided” he was about Scn and dear COB. As Mike said, it would look as if he is doing a Liability formula as part of the A-I steps. That way the message for the still-ins would be something like, “Look, the #1 anti-Scn guy – the one who was part of International Management and who had criticized the CofS for so long – has ‘come’ to senses and is confessing all the ‘lies’ from the anti-Scn groups”.
According to the well know mentality of DM, that would be an “effective blow to the anti-Scn field”. Remember that those still-ins believe ANYTHING that the CofS tells them. DM’s words are like gospel to them.
I am aware that you have affinity for Scn and LRH, and it is your right to so have it. But Rathbun is now defending a criminal group who abuses the Human Rights of others in a daily basis, and is trying to cover up or “explain” the blind spots from LRH. Do you really think that’s an ethical thing to do? As much as you feel that Scn might be workable for you and/or others and that should be salvaged – to which I disagree with, but about which we can agree to disagree – the CofS is a criminal group and many of the policies of LRH were misguided and destructive. This should be attacked and exposed and not defended. Rathbun is defending BOTH things and you seems to be either in agreement with it, or not bothered by it. And that’s what pissing people off, and not necessarily your support of Scn itself.
Valkov, if someone or any group is responsible of Human Rights abuses, the only ethical thing to do is to so expose it and attack it. If you don’t, then as unjust as it might seems to you, you seem to be supporting criminal actions and people are going to come against you really strong. One can be a Scientologist and STILL talk against and oppose the bad parts of Scn and LRH. I did when I still believed in the tech. And that’s what we would expect from anyone who believes in and support Human Rights.
The long and short: Now that the CoS is posting Rathbun’s videos it is a forgone conclusion that he is receiving money from DM in order to go after those exposing the crimes of scientology and its leaders.
THAT make Rathbun a CRIMINAL.
END OF STORY!
A long time ago, I knew a wonderful woman called Isobel. Isobel was born into a well-to-do family, but she married an average fellow, by the standards of high society.
Isobel and her husband, Graeme, had three children, then they adopted two more, indigenous boys. They also fostered many children over the years, and there seemed always to be a young person or two boarding at their house at any one time. Their long dining table was always jam-packed with visitors, especially for Sunday lunch.
As if that weren’t enough, for many years, Isobel and Graeme, who were pillars of the anglican church across the road from their home, ran a weekly soup kitchen for the needy.
Graeme seemed a pretty stern and gruff man, though there was a twinkle in his eyes when he smiled. But Isobel was a cuddly, warm, friendly, motherly woman and I loved her.
Then, suddenly, Isobel changed. She became angry and bitter. She had a falling out with her friend of many years, Helen, who was broken-hearted. We couldn’t understand the change in Isobel.
Not long after that, Isobel was diagnosed with an inoperable brain tumour. The tumour had caused the change of personality. She died soon after the diagnosis.
I don’t know what’s going on in Marty’s world, and I hope he is well. Recent events cause me often to think of Isobel.
(Hi Mike! Just dropped in to say hello.)
How nice to hear from you! 🙂
Im a professional astrologer. Ive noticed that Mark Rathbun doesn’t provide his birthdata anywhere, only the yr of birth, whereas other well known scientology persons do have their birthdates revealed on line.
Does anyone know what day and month he was born? I’d like to look up his transits and progressions to get an idea of where his head is at, maybe if there was a large payout or wages for these recent vids…ect.
My interest in scientology comes from having a birth mother and two half brothers who were ‘in’ though my birthmother was eventually declared.
Regards
From the Arrest Register, Orleans Parish Sheriff and accompanied by his mugshot, Rathbun’s d.o.b. is listed as January 9, 1957. No help with his ascendant or house wheel. Happy investigations!
An amusing sidenote is that Richard Nixon was born Jan. 9, 1913 and had some trouble with tapes, too.
OK, I just watched Aftermath #7…… observations:
1)First of all such a hypocrite. Here he is putting down scrited media as he is reading from scripted media. Yep, he’s back to being a Scientologist again: acting looney and doesn’t think anyone can see. Lol! And if they do see you become an evil person.
2) I think his script, the one he looks down on all the time needs to be approved from person sitting in front of him.
Why ?
Because I believe the person sitting in from of him, producing him, could be a lawyer. Marty every now and again looks to the person with a “was that ok” look. So he is being coached. Dare I say scripted; hypocrite! The person in front of him has Altitude in Marty’s eyes because Marty every so often looks directly into the face of that person seeking approval.
3) when he starts taking about you and your kids Mike, his face goes dark and he stumbles with his words. (BTW what a dick for speaking these words .. what a dick)
This scripted argument has been gone over with a fine tooth comb. This scripted, planned and manipulation of media has been being worked on in great detail, maybe by many people.
Very much like how a lawyer gets a case and seeks destruction of opposing case. Lawyers only want one thing: winning. Truth is not part of it. Marty is acting like a lawyer.
Marty is being coached by lawyers. There are lines and lines and lines of notes that have been written by lawyers with Marty.
DM may be attempting to start a law suite against A&E. Golly gee! What a surprise that will be.
I think the craziness of this is that they are digging their own graves. If a media storm is what they want, then this may be the stake in the heart of the beast.
Bring it on. You cannot surppress the truth.
The level of fear in the church is probably the highest it’s ever been. Last time they experienced an existential threat they overwhelmed the government with lawsuits.
They are experiencing another existential threat today as we speak.
Get ready for Miscavige thinking that with team Marty they can do it again.
Get ready A&E. You probably are. Miscavige is prepping for legal war.
Just another thought.
Marty’s videos read like a depo.
Scientologists believe that when they are attacked (criticized) that means they are winning and expanding. That’s a flat out Hubbard psycho manipulation.
But what I think is true:
Leah, Mike and A&E are winning because they are now being truly attacked.
You guys must have DM quaking.
I ask that lawyers around the country that would like to contact A&E and lend support.
The evil of Scientology must be purged from our culture. It’s cased so much heart ache and pain.
We need a legal army to go up against their billions. We need legal heroes to go up against the beast’s legal whores.
Ok Cece, this may rate as a Briacle.
Brian, Marty never claimed his videos were unscripted. Aftermath, on the other hand, is supposed to be a documentary, which by definition is unscripted.
Documentaries are always scripted. I’ve scored, music, many documentaries. Some were Universal releases and distributed by Universal.
I’ve worked close with film makers, producers, editors etc. There is always a script. Always a blueprint for order into which unscripted dialog takes place.
Marty is simply doing what he was trained by Hubbard to do; dead agent and destroy utterly.
Marty is doing the same thing; reading from a pre planned script and speaking in unscripted terms.
On Aftermath was real pain, tears and broken hearts. Marty cold hearted black ops dead agenting of these people is dispicable.
Being a despicable person is something Scientologists learn by reading things like Bolivar.
So, having worked on documentaries, you are saying that what Marty said is likely true – “Aftermath” is scripted, right? You are confirming what he said, right?
Why are you trying to pick a fight with Brian, iamvalkov? He isn’t producing Leah Remini’s aftermath series. Ask Mike Rinder, he was there for filming. You really seem like you are only posting here to try to start arguments with people. From what you say at Marty’s blog you don’t like this one or Tony Ortega’s, so….
Anyway, the people who tell their stories on Leah’s show are relating real-life incidents that happened to them. A reasonable person can assume that there is probably a rough outline of the points they want to cover. I assume they’ve discussed it a little bit, what they want to relate, that’s to be expected. So in that sense, it could be called ‘scripted’ I guess. But that’s to be expected if you want to produce a show, you can’t just turn the camera on and say talk about whatever you want, you’ve got unlimited time, go… of course not. Just as Mark Rathbun looks down at his notes from time to time as he records his videos… scripted, planned, organized… call it what you will, their stories are still genuine.
Sorry you dislike people who post here and Leah’s show and feel the need to try to start arguments. Please give it a rest, go outside and enjoy the fresh air and sunshine for a few minutes and put things into perspective. No one is counting on you to set everyone else straight about Scientology. Life goes on.
Pardon my bluntness. A whole paragraph of assumptions about me, whom you’ve never met and know little or nothing about. Brian can speak for himself. He is equally blunt. He has enough over the top hyperbolic rhetoric in his reserves to deal with me, I think. His post speaks for itself. He has worked on a lot of documentaries and confirms they are ALWAYS scripted, according to him. Where in all this you see me as “picking a fight” with Brian, is a mystery to me. Brian is one of the least helpless posters i have seen online. Mike is on record about the Aftermath show, so I don’t need to ask him. The post was by Brian, so I asked him the questions.
You want to keep this going. You are not talking about “shows” in general. You are trying to support the claim that Aftermath is scripted, rehearsed and acted. I have told you it is not. But you are back again pushing the line that it is because of a comment from someone else who loosely defined “scripted” as “choosing the subjects to interview and topics they want to talk about.”
What is your point for bringing this up again?
A. You just like to argue?
B. You want to be right until your last breath?
C. You enjoy stirring up shit?
D. You want to bring attention to yourself?
E. You want to support Marty Rathbun?
F. You want to attack The Aftermath?
You can select as many from the above A-F as are applicable.
Why don’t you let Brian speak for himself?
Why don’t you answer the question I asked you about your purpose.
Brian can certainly speak for himself – because I respond does not mean he cannot. As you well know.
The SUBJECT is The Aftermath. Not TV in general. I know about The Aftermath. Intimately.
I don’t think you should be able to come here any more. You are so two faced.
I don’t like you. You like to start arguments. You are not here to learn, teach or help anyone.
Mike is on to you now.
Ok, sorry in advance for this to everyone, but, I have never posted and, unfortunately, my first post will be somewhat rude. I am an academic, a professor, a published researcher, and have been studying (and reading this blog since its beginning) the topic of Scientology for a few years, mostly because it kept coming up in my classes (especially, ethics). While you, iamvalkov, are an interesting specimen, both sociologically and psychologically, I fail to see your purpose in consistently antagonizing everyone here. I can’t post at Mr. Rathburn’s blog: he won’t take any of my questions and he won’t post my comments. I don’t have a forum there. But, just because you’ve been given a forum here doesn’t mean you have to monopolize it.
I feel you are intentionally attempting to cause issues: pulling people off topic, hounding people who don’t agree with you, and trying to explain away (without actually explaining) the tautological reasoning of Mr. Rathburn. His writing is indecipherable, his use of material is bizarre, at best, (“Age of Anger”? Seriously?), his understanding of philosophy is laughable, and his ramblings are, at this point, just pathetic. And, you, sir, are coming off as a crazed, rabid, fanatical follower of whatever insanity he is currently slinging…which, of course, you have a perfect right to be. But, seriously, can you give it a bit of a rest? Take a drink, eat some chocolate, maybe you’re not eating enough carbs…but, I think you’ve done plenty to push the buttons of people that have been through enough and have the temerity to tell their story. You don’t add anything of importance to the conversation.
Mostly, it’s a selfish academic reason: I keep having to skip over your vacuous posts to read the comments of the grown-ups, who again, you tend to pull off topic. Since I often try to take organized notes, this gets annoying.
Your purpose has been served, so, please, just spend some time posting over on the other blogs about how backward and self-centered and brainwashed everyone else is while pretending to understand the incomprehensible ravings of a man in a very sad state. You’ve made your position clear. Unplug yourself for a little while…do you spend every minute of the day on these blogs?
In other, hopefully, simple-enough-to-understand words, please, I’m begging you, shut-up.
Again, my apologies, especially to Mr. Rinder, for being rude on his blog.
“Unplug yourself”
How hilarious is that I ask you? Love it loved your post I loved every word you said!
Has anyone read all the shit he says about everybody over there at Marty’s blog it’s unbelievable how that man can come here and say anything.
I should apologize again for my rudeness. I woke up this morning with 2 emails: one notifying me of a response to my post, which I posted in annoyance, and another notifying me of a journal paper acceptance for publication.
That has put me in a very good mood and, in the light of that and the day, I feel somewhat embarrased for my outburst.
Please ignore my assholeyness, and I will slink back into the lurker shadows.
LTR, first it’s good to hear from you – I hope you might weigh in more from time to time, though I realize that you may be constrained in doing so.
While you may have been rude by academic standards, I actually think it is great that you could bring your knowledge and skills to bear in pointedly challenging and exposing a disruptive person, in an informal setting.
One thing I’ve started to take into consideration more, is that I think that some of the troll-like commenters are rather passive-aggressive, being very ill-mannered in their behavior and undertone, while keeping up a pretense of politeness. Sometimes I think they need to be called out, for the good of the discussion and the benefit of observers, though they may act as if they are shocked, just shocked, to have someone get a bit overtly confrontational with them.
Again, I did not try to start an argument. Also, for your information, I do not dislike the people posting here, not do I dislike Aftermath, not the people telling their stories on Aftermath. I think it is a valuable public service to expose abuses committed by the CoS. However, Marty has been demonized for saying the show is scripted. Now Brian pops up and confirms that documentaries are scripted. Double standard?
Yeah, and I have told you it is not scripted. Nor is it rehearsed or acted. And you keep coming back here to try and argue that. You’re a nuisance.
Have you commented on Brian’s post stating documentaries are ALWAYS scripted? Or are you only focusing on me?
Who do you think you are?
You have an attitude problem. Now I am for sure ONLY focusing on you. You don’t think that’s fair? You don’t like it?
I’m new here. I read the mission statement. And have been watching Leah’s and Mike’s show. And going on the internet and reading to see what is going on I came to this blog to learn. Just saying……
You talk shit ALL THE TIME over at Marty’s!! About everyone here!
How can you come here and talk to ANYONE? ABOUT ANYTHING.
why do you post here at all?
He has decided not to post here any more.
Can’t you guys and gals see that this guy, I-am-a-troll-valkov is insane? Is it just me, or isn’t it kind of obvious?
Imatroll has decided not to post here anymore? Wow, that’s great news! Thanks for letting us know Mike…. It’s about time!
Woohoo!
Did I do that? I know I wasn’t very nice to him because he’s a dick. I am sorry if he’s not gonna post here anymore is that what you guys wanted? I feel bad I hope Mike’s not mad LOL
See my other answer to TJ
Well, I did not forsee this outcome, and to be honest, I think all this was a bit much, and kind of extreme. I was only pointing out that valkov’s post to Brian seemed overly confrontational, and was pursuing a silly point, so therefore was unnecessary, and I understand that Mike R. was irritated by this as well, and had some words with him, but I did not anticipate that my post would be the catalyst for a big confrontation with other posters piling on valkov, and the discussion turning so contentious and personal, and I actually don’t feel well about that, as I try to be a person who is respectful of others and contributes positively to whatever forum I am in, and don’t think I was doing that at that point, and truthfully, I don’t think valkov was trying to be a troll, he just had a strong viewpoint, with an annoying way of expressing it, but it was not so terrible that he should be vilified and outcast… it didn’t really rise to that level, and we’ve had much worse posters here. So, I’m thinking that I should take care to choose my words more carefully and thoughtfully in the future, to avoid creating this type of situation again. Sorry for my part in this, I need to stop trying to direct how anyone else expresses themselves in a public forum, it’s a failing of mine.
His choice not to comment further here was predicated on his last comments that I sent to the trash. He was challenging me and others in a hostile manner. I think he was trying to see how far he could go. He found out. Nothing to do with you or any other commenter. He chose to keep pushing the limits of decorum and with his choice he bowed out because I don’t want the constant baiting to continue.
Relax T.J., it had nothing to do with you. Individuals like Valkov, I’ve had to deal with all my life. They basically stir up trouble, get others upset, and then play the victim role and leave. Their purpose is to make others feel bad, guilty and upset.
You seems to be a very nice and gentle individual. But, IMHO, we need to be able to play the “being nice and compassionate” role, but also know when to change gears to the “being a bitch” role. Otherwise, the unduly and the insane eat us up.
I can be extremely compassionate and gentle – most of the time I am – but I can also cut anyone’s head with no remorse whatsoever, when I really that an individual is evil intentioned.
Lion’s Third Roar: I tried to answer your post but there were several posts that had no “Reply” button, so I had to come way down the thread here. No need to apologize. I LOVED your post and the way you expressed it. I blew down reading it. (i.e., had a lifting of mass by reading it, which is a good thing…) I loved how you described Marty. It actually helped me to better understand what Marty is doing. I think it all boils down to he has snapped and gone more or less insane, and you can’t understand insanity, so stop trying to. And you nailed Iamvalcov also. DO keep posting here. We’d all like to read your comments.
Interesting. Because I have a reply button but then I haven’t don’t have a done button or post button so I can’t do anything with the reply that I Wrote.
But on this reply I do!
In the words of Bugs Bunny “What a maroon!”
I also didn’t mean to say “Rathburn.” Autocorrect is disrespectful.
Thanks. I’m done, now.
“Rathburn” is apropos because he burned all his friends.
Bugs is one of my all time heroes. “Ain’t I a stinker?” was one of his better admirable sayings/attributes.
wow Its only my thought but he (Marty) seems to be having a mental break down. Especially that he has to read what he’s saying! Just going to make more people realize how horrible $cientology is.And what it does to people. I’m surprised his wife would put up with this guess the price is right! Or maybe she will do a Katie Holmes (my hero!)
I’m not a Scientologist not exScn, but rather someone who has been following Marty and Mike’s blogs for years. I find the recent turnaround and events regarding Rathbun to be quite deplorable. NOTE that today his videos appear on Scientology smear sites, as well in an organized presentation to refute the Aftermath TV series. There can be no doubt that he is now working for/with Miscavage and I strongly suspect a large payoff. These recent activities and the leaking of the confidential email re the lawsuit make me think that this guy is dangerous and I don’t think he is going away. The fact that he can turn so viciously on his former friends and those who have suffered horrendous abuse shows us he has no limits regarding what he would do in the future. What they are trying to do is all out attack the Aftermath TV series, kneecap Mike and Leah, sow discord in the community of those who have left Scn, – and more importantly they are trying to seriously threaten those who would publicly tell their stories in the future “ this is what we will do to you”. I think that closer to when they feel that the tax exempt status is threatened, things are going to heat up.
I have nothing but admiration for Mike and his efforts, and the others who so bravely speak out against horrific human rights abuses. I hope that all of you know that you have lots of support and hope you wont be deterred from your efforts !
( I will try to post this on Rathbun blog but I am sure it wont appear !!)
Where’s the LIKE button. Lol
Marty’s showing us in real-time the depth of the mind-fuck that is the Co$. From it’s most staunch supporter to its most deadly critic and back again. Now a dead-agent working again for the cult. Marty needs to rename his blog from “Moving on up a little higher” to “One man’s road to total degradation through Scientology.”
(MARTY RATHBURN) We know you’re reading this!
Your recent actions are going to keep peeps in $cientology! This is the effect of your vids! You’re literally sticking to the Agreements you made with DM to receive your 2yr contract big undercover PAYMENTS! I hope you think it’s worth it because you’re now helping to destroy families! Even preventing peeps pro creating their own KIDS/FAMILIES & wasting what’s left of their lives when they’re on their way out!!! Think of your new Kid ( NOW TAKE THAT AWAY!!!)
Your so called child will read/watch and listen to your recent actions when you’re long gone ( TARGET TWO ) with EMPATHY For All The Victims You’ve Created!!! And that’s without all of the betrayals you’re still continuing to betray ( All Your So Called Friends! ). ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?!? I created an account just to write this, knowing that you will read! That’s Why!!!
( Does Anyone Else have Anything To Add To This? )
PLEASE DO…
Just watched Marty’s Aftermath Ep7. Mike, I was taken aback by his insinuations AND that the COS is using videos 1-6 as black PR against Leah and the show. Marty is still living in black and white land, a victim of his own internal extremes.
I won’t go into my own family story, but I was disconnected from most of my biological family via adoption. There are very difficult situations that Marty personally hasn’t experienced, and that is evident from his judgement of you and your family. There are family members I would love to have a better relationship with but can’t due to these circumstances. I had to accept that fact a long time ago, but I won’t give up hope that someday it might be possible. You move on, build a new life, accept the consequences of your actions, and grow up. It’s not as easy as LETS GO SAY HI and the problem will disappear like magic, the family will be whole again. That would probably require Hogwarts, Harry Potter, and maybe an act of God.
That’s why I don’t judge. That’s why I’ll say I don’t know. Life is way too complicated for simple pronouncements and accusations. Mike, I appreciate you, your work and your blog 🙂 I wish you and yours the best. Living well is always the best revenge!!!
In Australia, when a bloke’s acting like a C U Next Tuesday, we reckon it’s probably because he is a C U Next Tuesday.
just watched part 7 of “leah and her deplorables: rinder is a giant faking hypocrite (and I know because he told me)” and I would have gone for “human piece of garbage”, but C U Next Tuesday will do just as well.
On a separate note. Marty has not changed his clothes in his videos since the intro on June 6, so he either stinks to high heaven, only owns one shirt and jacket or filmed these videos in one siting or maybe all three apply. Just saying…..(though I think someone else on this blog already made a similar observation!)
The video’s likely were shot in one day. Needed to get done for the Freewinds Anniversary
This might have been one continuous video, chopped up into bits afterwards. They move the perspective and camera around a bit (it seems) between takes.
Eh=Eh, the Sea Ogre staff shooting the vids weren’t given $ for more than one day of food so they shot all scenes in one day.
That’s sad . I used to know a couple of staff members that asked me to buy them dinner because they didn’t make enough money that week at the mission and they had no money for food. 🙁
You know, it’s possible the person who shot the videos will in the future come forward, and some posters on this blog will be faced with eating crow. That would be funny!
Chance of that person coming forward are less than an ice cream’s in hell.
Hey Mike, we can dream, right? You do, don’t you? It would be funny, and life has a way of doing that.
It’s also possible that the Sun will go nova next year. Personally I’ll place my money on the nova over the shooter showing up.
Marty is trying to diminish the crimes of the CoS and look who is on this blog carrying his water…
I’m pretty sure all of this was shot in one sitting. In the first video Marty released this year (the one titled “intro”) he speaks as if he’s talking to some documentary filmmaker. Marty is telling this supposed filmmaker that he’s willing to talk to him/her about the “other side” of the Scientology story if he/she (the filmmaker) is willing to give Marty the footage he’s in in and allow Marty to publish the footage in case he’s not pleased with the way the filmmaker is planning to present it. The videos we started seeing in the last two weeks are supposedly the footage as presented by Marty.
It’s curious that the filmmaker to whom Marty talks has never identified him/herself at all, neither in Marty’s videos nor in any place outside of it. We have no clue as to who this person is. This person also appears to have the lips of a statue as he/she never talks to Marty at all, never tries to ask Marty a single question. Very peculiar. I’m going to go with the popular opinion that this is a Golden Era production.
Oren, if the videos are in fact what the intro sets them up as, they are Rathbun getting to go on his rant after an interview, so the interviewer wouldn’t necessarily be asking any questions. I get the impression in watching the videos that there may have been some points at which the interviewer at least might have made some response like “un-huh,” but that those have been cut out to make these just Rathbun’s speeches.
And if these are “cuts” from an interview or documentary, I bet that the producers are mortified about the results of their agreement with Rathbun, and do not want to associate themselves with it.
I think it’s still plausible that the videos are what they say they are, though it is also certainly possible that something more complex is going on.
#7 episode I immediately thought of “they smile in your face, all the time they want to take your place the Back-Stabbers”
“Troublemakers Part 7” : To be fair, I only listened to about 30 seconds. Mike – your conflating and a paid clapper girl is the gist of the latest ramblings.
Take it as a compliment 🙂
I am a ‘never in.’ Occasionally I make comments, or ask questions.
Right now, I feel for those who trusted Marty. Many people Met iwth Marty, after they escaped, and received support from him. Their pain from this betrayal is real.
I offer them the love, compassion, support and empathy from a stranger who has read many of their stories. They did nothing wrong, and now they are hurt.
Stay strong. Remember that you have your personal sense of integrity. Hold true to it.
Mike, your dignity as this occurs impresses me greatly
Eclipse-girl – Same for me. Your comments reflected my feelings and thoughts, too.
I just watched Marty’s newest Part 7 video. I am so sorry for what he said about your relationship with your son and daughter. Rational people can see right through what he’s saying. I’d love for him to answer for his hypocrisy and sudden turnaround in belief about the church. I’ve seen everything on YouTube so was he lying then or now? Why should anyone believe him. I truly hope you are reconnected with your children one day, hopefully soon. You’re making Australia proud with your bravery and perseverance.
Mike, thanks for speaking out on the subject of Marty Rathbuns ongoing series of videos which attempt to counter the true stories and situations that are now being revealed to the general public. Somehow David Miscavige thinks that this is effectively going to create PR area control?
I have not seen any maiden voyage events yet. I guarantee that this years claims are the best yet in making Scientology look so fantabulous that there is no way that there is any truth coming from the ex-Scientology field. In fact the second Miscavige opens his mouth he lies. And the more he lies the more lies he has to tell to support the old lies. It’s a never ending loop.
Scientologies Rube Goldberg machine is quickly breaking down. Marty is the latest addition to this fantastical world of lies, frauds and crimes. Mike, glad you are pointing this out.
And these videos are now being featured on the Aftermath hate site put out there by the CofS (I refuse to link to these ridiculous sites). Sorry, but I simply can’t feel sorry for him anymore.
Even though I know that most every single person outside of the organization sees through this BS, we aren’t the intended audience. It’s those still in, especially those who might be on the fence and considering a possible way to get out.
If even ONE of those individuals, who might have otherwise gotten out, is persuaded by these videos that it’s safer just stay in and go along with the program, then that is one too many.
THAT is the concern I have with these videos…..the effect it might have on those who might possibly otherwise get out. And THAT is the reason I can no longer feel any bit of sympathy for whatever it is that Marty is going through. Sorry to come off as so heartless, but that’s the way I feel about it.
Mick – thanks for confirming what I suspected all along, these videos ending up on scien. site (I refuse to log in there). I commented a few days ago that the intended audience was for those still-in and on the fence. This is the black PR machine working at its best.
Marty’s video today is despicable trying to hit Mike where it really hurts, it’s evil and he’s starting to look more and more robotic.
At the time he dropped law suit, I thought the bloggers over at Ortega were a little too harsh on him but now, I PRAY that his fired lawyers find and follow that money trail that is probably very well hidden.
And like Brian says below, that Karma train is going to come around and smack him (paraphrase).
Think it through, please.
If the intended audience is still-ins and on-the-fencers, the Church has really walked into a trap and shot off both its feet, because Marty’s blog has a whole sidebar of links to media very critical of the Church, and exposing its worst aspects. By promoting Marty it is practically telling its members to check out Marty’s blog and find all those links on the page that comes up.
Uh-oh….bet they won’t be there for long, now.
I noticed this as well. Perhaps another indication he may be ‘dead-agenting’ himself and attempting to take the church with him? Still many more questions than answers regarding Marty.
Thanks Buckeye. By the way, Go Blue!
“OH – IO”
🙂
If anything, this is the Church’s black PR machine at its stupidest and most self-destructive
VERY Good Point!
(MARTY RATHBURN) We know you’re reading this!
Your recent actions are going to keep peeps in $cientology! This is the effect of your vids! You’re literally sticking to the Agreements you made with DM to receive your 2yr contract big undercover PAYMENTS! I hope you think it’s worth it because you’re now helping to destroy families! Even preventing peeps pro creating their own KIDS/FAMILIES & wasting what’s left of their lives when they’re on their way out!!! Think of your new Kid ( NOW TAKE THAT AWAY!!!)
Your so called child will read/watch and listen to your recent actions when you’re long gone ( TARGET TWO ) with EMPATHY For All The Victims You’ve Created!!! And that’s without all of the betrayals you’re still continuing to betray ( All Your So Called Friends! ). ARE YOU SERIOUS!?!?!? I created an account just to write this, knowing that you will read! That’s Why!!!
( Does Anyone Else have Anything To Add To This? )
PLEASE DO…
And now Rathbun’s video’s are the Scientology;s official website.
He has crossed the Rubicon.
God help him (and his wife).
Sorry, made a typo..
Should read: …are on Scientology’s official website.
I’ve never been a member of the Co$. That said, I’ve been reading Tony’s blog since the very beginning and have been interested enough to read Amy’s book, Jeff’s book, Chris’ book, etc. I have never been interested in reading Marty’s books or blog. My gut level feeling was that he was insincere in his testimony and I was always waiting for the other shoe to drop. I don’t know if he has a mental illness, a need for cash, or (and this is what I suspect) if he is simply a sociopath. My over all opinion is that he is not a happy man. I think he felt he would be in charge of the resistance, that his words would be the rallying call, that he would be seen as the hero of the piece. In reality, people see others in that light because they are more genuine, more heartfelt, and more remorseful for their behavior. I know that if I have a choice between listening to Mike Rinder or Marty Rathbun, I’m watching Mike 100 percent of the time. I feel sorry for Marty, but I admire Mike. End of story.
Mike, you and Marty were once the best of friends. Do you still talk to him at all? Has his recent turnaround ended your relationship with him?
Were they ever “the best of friends”? I recall the “fishing videos” they did on Marty’s blog, and I always had the impression they were not on the same page about it all. If I recall correctly, Marty was still somewhat enthusiastic about the basic tech, but Mike did not seem into it at all, and did not share Marty’s feeling about it.
As with most everything else you have to say on this on this subject, your opinions don’t match reality at all. Sorry. Just off in left field.
Tony has just reported that Marty’s vids are now up on the Scientology smear site.
Thoughts:
Marty betrays Miscavige by outing his violence on Truth Rundown
Marty becomes part of the disssent against church abuse
Marty betrays all those who he once was part of out here.
As someone who believes in and has experienced how karma works, Marty is unknowingly setting himself up for a colossal fall. I would hate to be in his shoes.
Marty has betrayed trust both ways. Towards DM and now towards those who he was once friends with.
Betrayal of trust is now his legacy. Betrayal and treachery are now Marty’s chosen attributes. They are his present personality.
Throughout Marty’s career as an enforcer he has sought to destroy free thinking critics. It was his job description. Destruction and attacking human beings with Ron’s black ops training of how to deal with critics. This was Marty’s life.
Now he becomes that same person again to betray his friends.
One thought of Ron’s pops up:
When you snap a theta line you get an explosion. A lot of theta lines have just snapped Marty. And are snapping.
As once the minister of the black arts of propaganda and ethics enforcement it seems you have darned that ego identification once again.
Was it the last time you felt you had success in life, a stable data?
Deception and propaganda has been your life Marty. With maybe a small interlude of sanity where you explored many roads to truth.
You have double crossed your friends and enemies Marty: first the church and now those out of the church.
Treachery, propaganda and deception used to be your job description as an enforcer.
That was your life.
You are back to that. Treachery and betrayal are now your burdens to contend with.
I am certainly glad I am not in your shoes.
In dead agenting these good people on Aftermath, you have destroyed and dead agented yourself in spades.
Treachery and betrayal Marty; is a recipe for self destruction. One way or another the universe will ask you to balance the score. The Scientology ego of dissing karma did not work so well for Ron. You are no different.
He was a raving loon at the end. And those who live a life of treachery and betrayal will have to pay the karmic piper. That’s just how this thing works.
Marty you have brought your family into dark waters. Is this the father you want your son to learn from? I now feel very sorry for you and your family.
I Wouldn’t Go That Far!
Only Feel Sorry For His Son!
WOW….I read all the comments here – to the end and as a never in fringe lurker (NIFL – I know how you guys like acronyms) this is really getting wild…I’m telling everyone I know to subscribe to these blogs! This IS reality TV …just not on TV.
I’m definitely on your side, Mike/Leah/Jeff/Aaron/Amy/etc…..
“Reality Blogging”. Many “interesting specimens” here.
By posting on their CoS web site – ppl will want to watch Leah’s documentary! The UTR ppl will watch it now to see what all the fuss is!!
Yes, I think so too. Marty’s videos will increase viewership of Leah’ show.
Move on up a little higher, then fall back down into a stinking pit of human feculence.
https://media.giphy.com/media/m6tmCnGCNvTby/giphy.gif
Mike, as a member of the Troika, I would expect you to take offense at Marty Rathbun’s latest foolishness,
As a card carrying member of the Cult of Anti-Scientology, I am awaiting my next directives from you, Tony, and Leah.
Also, the money you pay me in belonging to this cult has been so appreciated. Who would have thought posting anti-scientology rants on websites could be so lucrative?
Just kidding.
In seriousness, the victim-blaming game of scientology is one of the most abhorrent and despicable features of that loathsome organization. And to see Marty Rathbun licking his lips and fidgeting uncomfortably in these scientology approved videos is just so embarrassing and cringe-worthy.
Has Marty no shame? I honestly hope you are correct in wondering if he is losing his mind, because at least then I could feel some sympathy for him.
You know they could possibly edit your post by deleting everything you said after “just kidding!”
I wouldn’t put anything past them!
Celestian, you’re right. I always expect scientology to sink lower than the lowest depravity that I could imagine, and of course they never disappoint me. As the old saying goes, when you think you’ve seen the worst of scientology, it gets worse.
Amy Scobee’s story in episode one IS TOLD RETROSPECTIVELY so he can’t have watched it himself.
Marty says in his latest vitriol laden video that he considers that Amy, etc are his friends and he has nothing against them…. But attempts to throw them under the bus anyway. Gee, wish I had a friend like that!
It would be interesting to know what Leah thinks about all of this.
speaking of The Code of Honor, ,,,,, (recently) I guess Leah, indeed, doesn’t “need praise approval, or sympathy”, cuz if she did, all she’d have to do is comment here and we’d all thank her and love bomb her to death. 🙂
Would you consider filing a cease and desist if he continues his defamation?
Please tell me what that is exactly. I always like to learn a new. 🙂
Marty cease the lies you’ve been telling and accusations you’ve been making and desist, by never doing it again or we’ll file a lawsuit. He’s accused Mike and Leah of getting others to commit crimes such as the vandalism case.
He’s been down the OSA script road before.
“Russell Miller’s book is finally going to be published in the U.S. apparently. An interview with Miller was posted on Tony Ortega’s blog this morning. I read the book last year. I actually thought I had read it back in the eighties when it was published. After all, I helped direct and coordinate the abusive litigation tactics that drove his U.S. publisher into dropping the project. When I read the book, I recognized that in fact I had never read it all those years back. It was lingering cult delusion that made me think I had. In the eighties I had only read summaries and ‘dead agent’ packs compiled by Office of Special Affairs. Even in the past couple years I have referred to Miller as a propagandist; that was before actually having read the book. What I found remarkable about the thorough read I did was how balanced and even-handed Miller was about L. Ron Hubbard. It is not a wholesale condemnation. While I don’t attest to the accuracy of all his facts, for the most part the book covers a lot of irrefutable history pretty accurately.”
https://markrathbun.blog/2014/03/page/2/
Yeehaww! Aftermath season 2 airs in August!
I am a never-in and It doesn’t matter to me if it were Leah (someone famous), you or anyone who appeared in the documentary but I am more aware now of craziness of Scientology. Sorry but 10 years ago, I just thought of Tom Cruise and all the other ‘freaks’ who were waiting for the alien ship to pick them all up to go to Never-never Land; I really never understood all the other people whose lives it ruined. I am grateful to you all for opening up this bubble to help us all understand the grasp that they have on members of our society! Thank you.
ARE PEOPLE YOU SURE YOU ARE NOT JEALOUS OF MARK AND MOSEY? THIS IS HOW YOU COME ACROSS.
“I feel sorry for Marty”… “he is mentally ill…”
NO, HE AIN’T. HE IS CALCULATING. BUT IS THAT MENTALLY ILL? LOTS OF YOU ARE CALCULATING TOO. YOU JUST DON’T GET GOOD OFFERS.
ME THINKS HE JUST FIGURED THAT THERE IS A WAY TO GET A LOT OF CASH WITHOUT PAYING THE ATTORNEYS 75%.
MIKE RINDER’S AND LEAH REMENI’S TV GIG WILL NOT LAST FOREVER, AND MONEY WILL BE SHORT AGAIN WHILE MARK AND MOSEY ARE ROLLING IN DOUGH…
Alrighty, then.
All caps, huh? That’s used when you’re yelling at people in print. You seem a bit unhinged. However, you certainly have the right to express your opinion.
I am sad that you think that money is the key to happiness and that it is everyone’s motive. You, yourself, must be a lost soul. Look within your heart and maybe you could make a difference in someone’s life in a small way or in society as a whole
amen to that!
Hey Gavino. 🙂
Mike Rinder is definately not a liar and neither is Leah.
and no, mike is not “jealous of mark and his mosey” and mike and leah have recieved a ton of good offers.
calculating? yeah right. telling the truth is not the same as calculating.
and since when is telling the truth about rolling in money?
i call Balderdash on this on comment.
it seems like someone goofed your floof in this comment.
Stop yelling, asshole!
+1! Right there with you, Barbara! How rude!
Gees, you don’t need to yell! And I’m not speaking for everyone here but I’m plenty comfortable. I also don’t have to spend my life looking over my shoulder wondering when my lies will catch up with me.
Plus, dear yelling troll, if you had bothered tomread any of the other posts, you would have discovered that Mike took a cut in pay to do this series and you would know that Leah is set for life far beyond Marty’s wildest dreams even if she wasn’t a regular on another series again. Tsk.
Sam Samuels, typing in all caps? are you kidding me?. Marty is just returning to the behavior he exhibited when I knew him years ago. His actions certainly look like he is bought & paid for now (speculation on my part). He is back to following the RCo$ playbook fair gaming on behalf of the chuch.
Samuel is passive, SAMUELS is AGGRESSIVE
So…this guy is passive/aggressive? Sounds like he’s going nowhere. He’s a real nowhere man, living in his nowhere land.
Is there some LRH advisory that says that OSA has to type in ALL CAPS? If not, you’re just being annoying for the sake of being annoying. And the handle’s a nice touch. It’ll remind people here of Martin Samuels, a successful mission holder destroyed by your midget boss, his cowardly lackeys, and his Finance Gestapo.
In other words, you’re a prick, so piss off.
You are correct that Mike and Leah’s ‘tv gig’ will not last forever. But besides throwing most friends under the bus, disparaging people assaulted within the ‘cherch’ of $cn for money will not go well either. I believe one of the most obvious possible reasons for the 180 degree change by Rathbun is some metal break, thus the comment about his mental health, don’t you?
Protip: when you use all caps, it looks like you’re SCREAMING. You may not want to.
Eh? Your post makes no sense whatsoever!
First of all, all caps isn’t more convincing — it just makes you more annoying. Second of all, jealous of what? Marty is a lying, back-stabbing hypocrite of the highest order. What’s to be jealous of, exactly?
Cool, a new OSA Troll. So why don’t you sit down and tell us about yourself. What ethics program you are working on. How much, in addition to trolling Mie’s site you are paying the church to get out of ethics and back onto yelling at BT’s, etc., etc?
Sam Samuels, or should I say, “OSA”? So you admire Marty for being ‘smart’ enough to cut a deal, cut the attorneys out, take lots of money and betray his friends and contradict his former own testimony? Some role model you have there.
Mike, I know this particular commentary is especially painful and hurtful for you. That makes it all the more poignant. This person is someone you trusted, confided in, shared with, and I’m sure loved. The anger and sense of betrayal is evident. He sat and fished with you, I’m sure that in itself was just another application of mortar building your friendship. The fact that he gave Christy away at your wedding is probably the most excruciating memory of all. You refused to speak when Marty first seemed to go off the rails, as a true friend would. I so admired you for that. Now that Marty has begun to attack victims of crimes and abuse by scientology you’ve defended them as any good man would. Well done Mike. You’ve had the courage to protect these people to the best of your ability. If I was one of them I be so impressed by your friendship, and happy with the help you’ve given, Marty’s insults and name-calling would lose much of its sting. I would think most people look for such a friendship and treasure it if they find one. I’m aware that the gratitude you feel for the help and guidance Marty gave you when you sorely needed it. That makes this commentary more than difficult. So thank you for the strength and humanity you showed your friends. These are the people who needed it.
Mike — please read. Ultimately this comment is for you.
But first, ‘thank you’ Barbara, for putting into words, thoughts and concerns that I have also had in regard to Mike’s well-being. It truly must weigh heavily and it is a testament to him, his family and the rest of his support network, that he continues his crusade to enlighten and educate the world about the true nature of scientology.
Mike: I’ve stated before I am a ‘never-in’. But I have been studying the CoS for almost a year now. I have taken the time to learn all I can about that organization and have endeavored to be objective. I have read Dianetics, taken some online scientology courses. Matter of fact, Marty’s book “Warrior” was the second book I read after Atack’s “Blue Sky”. I’m giving you this detailed history, because I want you to know that I have given some serious thought to what I am about to say.
Is there any possibility at all that Marty could be making one final effort to shine a glaring laser beam on the church and help bring down Scientology by sacrificing himself? He is doing exactly what scientology always does; attack, discredit, make generalized statements with no proof, etc., etc. He is being a very public practitioner of scientology. Could we be witnessing a ‘fair game’ operation? And what has been the response? On your blog alone, the response has been tremendous and by far, very negative toward the CoS. Other blogs and videos from Ortega, Smith-Levin and even Mango are giving this latest series from Marty a lot of coverage…and it’s not good. Maybe Marty realized that even a lawsuit win, money, etc. would not relieve him of his regrets (guilt?) over the role he played as part of the church; nor an end to his constant church harassment. He helped so many, how could he now turn his back? Watching his most recent videos, I sense a lot of pain. Perhaps he realized he didn’t have the strength and stamina of a Mike Rinder to carry on the fight and decided to fall on the grenade instead.
Honestly I feel bad for him. He cannot accept the real world and is trying to revert back to his position of power and authority. He was the hammer of scientology and he enjoyed that title like he said in my scientology movie “I was the most bad ass dude in scientology ” with a level of pride I only ever have seen in soldiers who have been busted down in the ranks trying to show to the world ‘it was them it wasn’t me’
Others were forced to commit violence against others but you can tell he enjoyed it.
Now he can’t do it anymore so he shames people behind the screen of a computer. The problem is that he I feel truly regrets leaving because it was and is all he has ever known.
I don’t feel bad for him. I have to work hard to make ends meet. He doesn’t. He can buy himself a nice private island and can eat the best organic of food, buy the best of stuff, while can not.
Can you make up your mind about whether you’re Sam Samuel or Sam Samuels? Or is that beyond OSA operatives these days?
“Sam Samuel”.
Espiando, I can just see the minds of the OSA at work… “We are so much more clever than the SPs and WOGs, let’s infiltrate their websites and sow dissent.” Yep, clever plan, we’ll never figure it out.
Scientology tactics and the directives of the dead man LRH just don’t hold up in the modern world. Scientology’s founder was a hack and the current leader is the dumbest tactician. Miscavige is a transparent fool and because he only surrounds himself with yes-men, he will never be challenged in his idiocy.
So I guess that is a good thing.
Maybe he’s 50/51.
Sam Samuel,
are you taking LSD or something?
mike rinder is a real-estate agent in florida, not a hollywood actor who has not a single care in the world. and as far as him living like a prince, since when? afford a private island?
he doesnt have to work to make ends meet?
why then did he take a PAY CUT to work on leah’s show and makes less doing that then he does with his job with Aaron?
Cupid, Sam S is not talking about Mike. He’s talking about Marty being rich enough to afford a private island and organic food, now that he took the money and ran, betraying all, most of all himself.
There’s nothing I can write that hasn’t already been said/written a hundred+ times but I will add these lines in support just to let you know that I understand exactly how you must feel now that he’s taking shots at la familia.
Oh, and we all realize what’s happening here (to a point) so try not to let this bulljive bring any of you down. We know.
Multiple choice question:
Which of these below options do you think points to propaganda and manipulation of media:
1) a blog who allows dissent posters?
2) a blog who screens dissent and blocks dissent?
Mike Rinder allows Jim Logan from Milestone Two, who has defined Mike Rinder as stuck in a GPM, and has banned me for saying that the bad in Scientology must be purged.
Marildi, My Two Cents, Foolproof have all had free reign to post.
Marty Rathbun has blocked many posts that dissent on his videos. In the past he always allowed dissent. In fact, it’s my opinion that he has gotten probably 100s of posts that have been blocked.
So who is trying to create a false media impression? Those that allow all opinions or, the quintessential Hubbard go to approach, block and suppress all those that disagree with Marty(Hubbard).
The answer is so obvious.
Theory about Marty. Pure speculation:
I believe Marty’s life before his attitude switch was hell. I believe he was in peril financially. Maybe with a worried wife and precious child in which he sees as a sacred task to keep together.
I believe Marty got some auditing. Maybe SP/PTS handling. He had some type of cog that turned his mind inside out.
Maybe what we are seeing is that the Indies are truly seeing that the church is going down. They see the writing on the wall. Scientology’s PR is super toast. Numbers dwindling and Leah Viking Sheild Maiden is getting reading for the stake through the heart of the beast.
They know that there will be a lot of homeless (churchless)Scientologists. And maybe some Indy with money is crowning Rathbun as the Pope to pick up the pieces.
Marty’s money problem would surely disappear with Scientologists now seeker an Indy Standard Tech Person as the new and improved Scientology.
Just a theory.
Hey Cece, this won’t be a Briacle. I promise ?
No, Brian, you’ve got a very valid point. I’m sort of in the dark about the current issues with Marty Rathbun but I agree that, possibly, groups like the Freezone are looking for a standard bearer to hoist the flag once Mike and Leah fight the Battle of Scientology and the walls come tumblin’ down. Maybe conjecture but something worth pursuing.
The problem with that theory is that the Indies essentially tried that with Marty soon after his blog started, raising him to their standard bearer because, at the time, Marty still believed in Standard Tech and offered a place for True Believers to congregate. He turned down that poisoned chalice. Then, during Marty’s Zen period, the True Believers gave up on him, especially after he posted some negative things about Hubbard. They’ve given up on Marty as a hopeless case. They’re not going to flock back to him, especially after these videos.
Um, Espi?
I said ‘possibly’ , POSSIBLY!
But you make a good counterpoint.
Best to you.
Are you sure all those people you named have free rein to post on Mike’s blog? I seem to be aware of Mike moderating away posts he does not want. Maybe you should open your eyes, Brian.
I moderate some comments. Probably Wynski has been shredded more than any other commenter. Just so you know. It’s not based on what you Scientology view us it’s what the content of the comment is.
Yes they do! I have seen quite a few post after each new video.
In all my time either reading or directly participating in EVERY known Scn-related (pro or anti) blog, I’ve never met a moderator who respect so much the Freedom of Speech and Freedom of Thought rights as Mike Rinder has always done. I’ve always considered myself a defender of Human Rights and quite balanced in my interactions with others. But Rinder is SO much better than me at it. This EQUAL opportunity that Rinder offers at his blog, made my healing from the effects of Scn possible. Whoever thinks that Mike moderates those comments that are critical of him or who doesn’t ajust with his own views about things, doesn’t have a clue of who he really is, or is delusional, close-minded, cultic or just plain stupid.
I have ONLY seen Rinder moderate comments that are just too hostile and even abusive directed as a personal attack towards a poster, or if the comment is too political in nature. And the comment has to be REALLY hostile and abusive and even sort of repetitive for him to moderate it, because he even allows for the well known heated disagreements among posters. That’s why this blog has lasted for so long. Because he doesn’t take the Freedom of Speech lightly.
Marty has blocked all of my posts from the very beginning. Some of them have just been questioning him and his motives and others I just called him and out and out liar, knowing he wouldn’t publish them but he’d have to read them. But Miraldi who posts here, gets free reign over there and blows so much smoke up Marty’s ass she’s such a a sycophant and she says Mike doesn’t publish all of her comments. So who is the propagandist here? It’s Marty Rathbun who has gone back to the church. He’s not even in a real room. He’s in front of a green screen with a fake background. So what’s reality here? I am so angry for Mike and now Amy. The story in Episode 1 of aftermath was the story of Amy and her mother reuniting. Her mother was already dead when it aired. And Marty just crapped all over her memory. What a horrible person with no soul.
Q. What could be more fun for a sociopath than squirrel busting a defector and dragging out a lawsuit for years?
A. Getting the defector to drop the lawsuit, screw over his lawyers, and move within your orbit, to be rewarded or tormented at your pleasure.
They have gained nothing and have amassed grief for themselves and bunch of other people. And they know it.
All for the paltry price of offering to drop the squirrel busting in exchange for them dropping the lawsuit and doing one or two small favors for you. (And a new suit of clothes so they don’t look like a bum.)
Oh, it’s delicious! When you’re tired of the game you resume the squirrel busting and dare them to start their lawsuit from scratch.
IMO Marty through Louis Theroux’s, “My Scientology Movie,” under the bus is because he saw that same thing I saw – a man haunted by what he did for Scientology and now worried (with Aftermath, etc.) that what he did will be exposed by someone so he has to trash everyone . . .it may be bad enough to really indict Scientology, but it will indict him in the process so he has to act like a “Mini Scientology.” (mini me)
I have read with great amusement the comments about the “placement” of Marty’s series on youtube, particularly about the videos’ recent sponsorship (my, who could be behind THAT?).
Scanning the number of views is particularly instructive: By now, the very first installment (of the unsponsored series 1) has attracted 7,800 viewers in its 2+ weeks run. These numbers quickly declined, and after 5 installments never broke above 2,000 again. In fact, they settled in slightly above 1,000.
Imagine everyone’s surprise when the (sponsored) Leah series became an instant “hit” of sorts, with 32,000 views (as of today). Lengthy series usually drop off fairly quickly (just like the first one did). This is due to the fact that the first part has been around–collecting views–the longest, waning interest over time as well as the fact that folks coming to the party later will naturally be more inclined to click on the first installment .
But NOT this one. Viewership rose 20% on day two, and almost doubled–and peaked–on day three (oh, that’s right, that one was Statistics day!). Days 4 and 5 were still significantly above day one. Today, Sunday, surely should have found a lot of folks with too much time on their hands. And yet, 7 hours after posting, less than 500 views, compared to yesterday’s almost 50,000!
Contrast this with the Thumbs up/down given. This number has remained fairly consistent (usually below 100, with a significant preponderance of thumbs down), whether there were 500 or 50,000 viewers. This is particularly enlightening as “views” are easily achieved by simply clicking on a video (whether the click comes from someone actually watching–even for a few seconds–or an organization charged with generating clicks). However, voting on a video requires an actual login to youtube.
Marty’s efforts notwithstanding, I am still NOT sure what a “troll farm” is. However, I am well familiar with the concept of “click farms.” And it appears that even “click farms” take their Sundays off! Then again, a new work week is commencing in Asia as we speak. So his “viewership” may be on the rise…
Sure enough. Over the last couple of hours, the “views” went from 500 to 22,000. In fact, I just waited about 5 seconds and refreshed the screen. Views had grown by 1,000. 47x, straight up and vertical; from 25,000 to 14,000,000–No problem!
Wow that is so interesting……..seems as though that it is evidence the church is paying for this. Hahahahaha………..this is where our tax free dollars are going?
i looked at that too, but i don’t understand the purpose. i didn’t see any ads – did you?
what i did notice (after re-watching part 2 of leah and her deplorables: the troika origin story) was that he’s giving monique blinkling a run for her money on the blinking.
It appears that at first there were some YouTube ads, and now probably paid clicks/views from “click farms.” But I found pricing that appeared to be as lows as $1 per 1,000 clicks, so this could still be done on the budget of an amateur vanity project. The release of the videos is also erratic and amateurish, violating the best practices for getting maximum views (posting first thing in the morning). That and the way that comments were turned off at first – except when that was forgotten, and they were turned off after a while – but then left on, with heavily moderated postings allowed for the last several videos, suggests to me impulsive attention-seeking behavior.
It’s sad that after everything Marty put his wife through (Squirrel Busters, Dildogate, etc) in an effort to do the right thing, he flushes it all down the toilet.
Now he’s a sad footnote with 4-5 diehard followers, who post nonsensical ramblings about Marty’s ‘truths’.
The constant need for him to check his notes and the number of times he says ‘ok’ (if you play a drinking game – drink every time Marty says ‘ok’ -you will die of alcohol poisoning) indicates he is trying to convince himself.
So, Amy’s a friend, but she’s also a liar and a princess? Marty you have depleted any good karma you may have gained.
You’ll reap what you sow.
Just for the record, IMO, anybody who’s followed the exes online, in their books, reports, TV shows, etc. over the years knows full well that what they experienced was real.
Looking forward to season 2 of The Aftermath!
Marty’s videos fill me with sadness. No amount of money, not millions of dollars, would cause me to turn on my friends and tell lies that I know to be lies. And Marty knows, in his heart of hearts, that he is doing just those things. I can only conjecture as to the reasons why he has turned on those who were once his friends and supporters. It speaks of a level of desperation we can only guess at.
Yes, Amy has told her story before. Yes, she wrote a book. I did too, and I have told my story hundreds of times publicly, and will continue to tell my story as long as there is someone who wants to hear it, as long as there is breath in my body. According to Marty’s logic, Amy should have stopped telling her story once she was reunited with Bonnie. There was no longer a situation, according to Marty, so why talk about it any more? By that logic, David Miscavige hasn’t beaten me in 12 years, so I should just drop it. No longer a situation. Old news.
Anyone who watches Leah’s show and thinks that these are people acting, reading from a script, has lost all sense of compassion or empathy. No Marty, there is no onion slice hidden in a handkerchief to produce fake tears. The stories are real. The tears are real. The abuse was real.
Marty, and others, complain that they are not being provided with a forum to present their pro-Scientology views. I’m sorry, but no one owes you a soap box. Grab a camera and film your views. Put it online – it’s free. Write a book and publish as an e-book. It costs nothing. Start a blog. You want your views heard? Then stop complaining and get busy.
And no one owes you an audience. If your views are interesting and compelling, the audience will find you, if you keep at it. No one is stopping you. You are not the victim of some conspiracy.
If you write a book and no one reads it, then maybe it wasn’t that good a book. Maybe it was just self-aggrandizing blather that didn’t tell half of what you really know. If you get a slick production company to make videos of you and put them online and nobody watches them, then maybe people see them for what they are – boring, pedantic revisionist bullshit by some self-important and self-styled “authority.”
If you tell stories of Scientology abuse and millions watch them and praise them, then maybe it’s because they recognize the truth in these stories and it strikes an empathetic chord in their heart. Because most people still have a heart, it hasn’t been reduced to a cold, dead, blackened piece of coal.
Sadness, Jefferson? Lulz. You sound jellous. He is for sure not sad. Ask Mike how much Debbie Baumgarten got from Miscavige. Marty got at least that much of not more.
Illiterate troll.
+1! Illiterate troll indeed.
It seems that the cult can’t even field a decent troll…hilarious and pathetic at the same time!
You wrote: “Marty, and others, complain that they are not being provided with a forum to present their pro-Scientology views. I’m sorry, but no one owes you a soap box. Grab a camera and film your views. Put it online – it’s free. Write a book and publish as an e-book. It costs nothing. Start a blog. You want your views heard? Then stop complaining and get busy.”
The fantastic thing about the age of the internet is that, for a very modest price, anyone who desires to can post their thoughts, arguments, videos, personal stories, etc. to a potential audience of billions. So, given that inexpensive, direct and virtually unlimited access to such a vast potential audience, why is it that so very few true believer $cilons avail themselves of this opportunity!!?
With a claimed membership of millions, how is it even possible that virtually no one who’s a member in good standing with the cherch has chosen to exercise their Constitutional right to free speech and spoken out to tell their own personal stories; or to write their own books concerning $cn and their experiences within it; or to make their own independent documentaries to tell, what MR regularly describes as, “the other side of the $cn story”?
It all seems very mysterious indeed, until you understand how rigidly controlled every bit of communications between individual $cilons and the real world is. NO ONE has the authority to speak out on their own concerning their own personal experiences in $cn – whether good, bad or indifferent – without the express, prior authorization of the cherch. To do so would be to guarantee that you’d be sent to ethics and punished/interrogated, which is exactly why the cult has a compliance rate of close to 100% there…which is a success story that any sociopathic absolute ruler would be very proud of indeed 😉
Sam S., its very possible that Marty Rathbun got an offer he couldn’t refuse from the Church of Scientology in return for which he was required to turn on his former friends and repeatedly lie about them.
Now, Jefferson Hawkins has shared that he feels sorry for Marty because of these actions of his, for whatever his reasons.
I feel sad too.
You’ve shared that you don’t feel badly for Marty or feel sad about what he’s doing at all because you’re sure that he’s doing it for money which is giving him financial security.
Ok, well, maybe he is doing it for money. Maybe you’re right about that. I don’t know, I really don’t know, but for our purpose here, lets say you’re correct.
If so, I still feel badly for Marty and sad about what he’s doing and I’m sure Jeff and many others here feel exactly the same way.
Because its not worth it, Sam.
Your reference for this is Shakespeare’s “Macbeth”, the famous line spoken by that character:
“Will all Neptune’s great ocean wash this blood from my hands?”
True, Marty Rathbun hasn’t murdered anyone, like the character Macbeth.
But I’m not being melodramatic when I state that he has murdered the trust, affinity and respect he was freely given by his former friends.
And worst of all, he murdered his own integrity.
That’s a very, very steep price to pay for lifetime financial security, Sam.
The money, if indeed he is doing it for money, and again, I don’t know, but if it was for money, then that money will be nice for a while, but quickly he’ll get used to it. Once that financial whip is no longer lashing him he’ll forget having been poor.
But he will not forget what he did to get it. That’s not going to go away. He’s not a sociopath. This is going to bother him, a lot, and for the rest of his life.
So, yes, we feel badly for him and sad about it.. You should too.
Think about it for a while, Sam.
What Aquamarine said.
I believe that he was paid off by his old friend, Miscavige. And now, he’s turned back into an attack dog. Money will do that.
“Out! Out, damn spot!”
What Jeff said.
That’s the weird part I noticed from the first episode. He’s appeared in 2 movies, was the source for at least one book and written plenty of his own and has had his own blog since what 2007? 2009? And yet he says that he’s not being heard? So that’s why he’s doing these videos and me makes sure to say at the very beginning if he feels he’s being unfairly edited that he will take his ball and go home? Well why doesn’t he do it himself then? And why does he hold others to a standard that he isn’t willing to uphold? He says Amy should stop telling her story but he’s not willing to. How many iterations of his story has there been and he hasn’t shut up yet.
Jeff Hawkins – this reply is in lieu of a “like” button. Just wish there was a way to up vote comments.
Agreed, Jeff. It’s pathetic and sad where Marty has landed. And kind of funny how some people agree with and defend him (how do you spell “trolls”). But that doesn’t change a thing about how abusive the cult has been. Sam Samuel needs to learn how to spell. The cult has cretins trolling for them.
Peter,
Given Sams comments and his literacy, he/she/it is showing the unmistakable signs of a cult slave likely working in the OSA dept.
Notice the bitchy comments about money. Anyone in the cult is starved for that elusive substance but what the hell, it’s only MEST, who needs it?
Yo Sammy Pooh,
Say hi to my good buddy!
Jeff
Beautifully, passionately and I believe, truthfully stated. Samuel’s comment indicates that his heart is made of more than a little carbon as well
Thanks for chiming in Jefferson. I always appreciate your views.
Jefferson Hawkins, by any chance was your sister Susan Blanchard (pls. forgive the topic switch)?
Since only the most loyal of contributors to Marty’s blog have been able to get their comments posted on it, there is no open and free discussion occurring there concerning MR’s recent hate/smear video series, only the baa-baaaing of his last few supporters. Worse still, MR is not responding to anyone’s comments or questions which have been directly addressed to him. Indeed, it’s not even known whether or not MR continues to control that site any longer.
So, to keep the conversation alive over here, I thought it would be useful to import part of it from folks who post both here and over there, such as Marildi. Here’s one of the interesting things that she had to say recently that I think deserves to be taken up on this blog and discussed out in the open, where everyone (including even MR, if he chose to) could express their opinions in a civil manner and, hopefully, with the kind of supporting evidence that should always accompany the assertion of each point being made in any argument.
“Mike is very much in charge of his blog, and can be very authoritarian when he wants to be. He fairly often moderates out mine and another poster’s comments (who is also pro-tech) – especially if we are making too good a point, or have a good comeback to one of his regular pilers-on. He protects them, while they pretty much have free rein to chop us to bits. I’m sure you’ve seen the latter.”
I appreciate the back-handed compliment concerning her perception of being chopped to bits, which is certainly true enough. However, what Marildi and some of the other Tech lovers who post here will have to admit is that at least you’re allowed to speak your mind here, just so long as you (and everyone else here as well) keep it civil.
That is definitely not the way that MR’s blog is being moderated or has been moderated in the past; nor is it how the corporate cherch operates in any of its communications mediums and channels…THERE IS NO FREE, OPEN DISCUSSION EVER within the cult, which is one the best ways to identify it as a cult to begin with.
I wouldn’t support M’s expulsion from this blog, but I would point out the lunatic hypocrisy involved in making complaints concerning the biased and unfair moderation she’s experienced here…but over on MR’s site, where virtually nothing gets through his (or could it be the OSa’s ) “no contrary views or questions will be allowed” editorial filter. Still, it would be wunnerful if she could wake up to the reality of her situation here and, at the very least, air her complaints with this blog and with those who she feels have been chopping her to bits in a venue where they can at least respond in reply.
Always stirring the pot Harpoons….on Ortega blog you use hate speech and namecalling frequently but it’s ok bc you’re doing it to “someone who deserves it” (Marty). Now just in the name of civil discourse, you want to report what someone said and start a pile on. Not everyone who disagrees with you is a troll or in OSA by the way. I’ve been a financial contributor to both Mike and Mark’s blog. Like Jefferson Im sad for the people being so deeply hurt by Marty. But as I’ve said, as a mental health professional, I see someone unstable in those videos. Too many tics, signs of anxiety, discomfort and distorted thinking. The details are none of my business, he doesn’t owe me any answers. All I know is, rich or poor, the man in those videos is a broken human being. I can’t revel in that, no matter what part he played in it. I’m sad bc the cult has harmed too many too deeply and not everyone heals. I will try to think of the good he did and many people he helped. I say it in past tense bc I think the man who did those good deeds has lost his battle with the dark side and has departed. He will be missed.
Does it really and truly matter why Mark Rathbun is saying what he is saying? In the same wise, does it really matter why Miscavige, his sycophants, and the dyed-in-the wool Kool-Aide drinkers say what they say; or what is written in the hate sites and Freedom Magazine? I would think, most likely not. The effects of the destructive policies of Hubbard, have been out there for all would take the time to research and see. The stories of damage being done to hundreds, if not thousands, of people, by policies, and yes, even to some, by the technology, have been revealed in internet posts and blogs, books and articles and documentaries by well respected authors and film makers. The truth is people who have been emotionally, physically,and financially broken by the Church of Scientology, have told and written their stories, and the greater public, by the millions, has become more and more aware of them. The truth is that those who have escaped from the church, whether as staff , or as parishioners, are leading happier, productive lives. The truth is, I believe, that a public relations tipping point has been reached. The negative influences of the church are freely available for all to see, and Mark Rathbun’s voice becomes another in the cacophony of voices attempting to defend the indefensible.
Mr. Fairman, it is now a He said She said situation for reporters. And who wants to go into that?
It’s not really a he-said/she-said, because nobody’s listening to Marty – at least nobody that matters. We can ramble on back and forth about all this, but the fact remains, who the hell is going to see his videos that matter?
Michael, I’ve come to appreciate your moderate, well considered approach to presenting your comments and this one is no exception, it is the closet thing to the truth about organised Scientology wrapped up in a single paragraph as any ‘commentor’ can get while remaining civilized. I thought about it for a bit and realized it contained nothing not already known. It prompted an extended think beyond the obvious insane reaction Rathbun knew he would be labeled with and he knew it would incite comments among the past, but real students of Scientology who took the subject seriously once. Yet remain in contact with the present activities of the Cof$ and post their opinions world wide. Even Jim Logan put text to Mike’s site over this. “What possible motive could Marty have for doing such a thing?”
I’ve been trained to think outside the box, well… in a antiquated way now, but what would an enemy do or try to do to gain an advantage. Albeit I’m very rusty and way out of date now that computerization is the norm but something is amiss in all this rhetoric bouncing around about the obvious insanity Rathbun has launched upon the ex Scientology community.
Are we ourselves being studied? Are our obvious reactions being evaluated and our numbers counted? Forget the PR for a moment… what new game(s) or scenario has been launched by Rathbun that can be observed or plotted?
Is this an attempt to find some way of studying the Mike and Leah invasion or to come to terms with it and develop new strategies?
We are at war whether we like it or not. They have the money, we have the truth.
Lots of very good observations an comments here and I really don’t have much to add. But I do want to mention something interesting I just caught on to. There are several you tube videos from “The Truth Network” which show presumably non-secular, past associate’s of Leah Remini. One is Bob Pace, a building inspector another is Kathy Oliver, a previous manager of Leah’s.
These are two separate videos and each person is presented with no clues to or mention of Scientology and both criticize Leah on various counts. But I noticed Bob’s vocabulary, although it included none of the obvious scn words, still left me skeptical.
So I went to the so-called The Truth Network and found nothing but pro-Scn and anti-critics of Scn propaganda videos… It’s clearly an OSA undertaking. I then searched beach of the names followed by the word “scientology” as well as a couple more at their home YouTube page and guess what… no surprise, both Bob and Kathy and the others are scientologists; at least they’re listed as Scientology Completions.
Grain of salt anyone?
You know how you get the sense that someone is “off?” Something is wrong with a person but you can’t put your finger on it…but the hair n the back of your neck rises up? That’s the sense that I’ve always gotten from Marty. That he’s not telling the whole truth. In my Scientology movie there’s a scene where Louis Theroux asks him what it felt like punching someone in the face …. I can’t remember who it was at this moment . The question obviously made Marty feel very uncomfortable … and his answer reflected that…. It really hurt my hand. No apologies and no remorse . I always got the sense that he enjoyed being the top dog in Scientology . Making decisions that changed peoples lives forever…. A power trip. Him flipping The script at this point does not surprise me. I don’t think that he has ever come to terms with what he did to people when he was in power all of those years. I Think he enjoyed it. This is a scripted documentary about his unraveling. He seems incapable of grasping . what he is doing and how he is hurting people that once helped him. He is unpredictable at this point , so it will be interesting to see how this plays out. It is a sad situation for him and his family . They have been through so much already. It’s like trying to stop a freight train
+1 I had the same impression of Marty when I entered the blogosphere in December and now it’s unbearable to view his latest stuff. As a fellow human being, I do feel sorry for Marty whatever his internal or external motivation is to do such despicable things to others he once helped.
Gosh! Wow. Firstly Mike, thanks for stating this as eloquently as always and your related post a few days back. As you probably know, I have let it all go pretty much and rarely frequent any blogs or even F/B these days. Life’s too interesting. However I did check out a few of Marty’s recent video’s (“Marty’s” videos?) with increasing bemusement. It’s jaw-dropping stuff. I called Marty out on his blog when he started publicly trashing some of my friends and asked him who was next with the double-barreled assault; Mike Rinder for example I asked him? (To his credit he did at least post the comment). I also suggested he take his own advice and just “let it go” (in D major). But I didn’t actually believe he would manage to alienate EVERYBODY! Astonishing. For a guy who genuinely helped so many out of the mind***k, including me in 2009, the turnaround is … is …. I just don’t have words. I’m not even going to try and understand or rationalize it – it’s inexplicable. I’m sad and embarrassed for Marty in equal measure. Like you I hope he finds some sort of peace, although quite how is also beyond me. Unfortunately in the UK we haven’t had the benefit of Aftermath – apart from a few snippets on YT. But I have no doubt you, Leah and the other participants and contributors are doing it for all the right reasons, and I wish you the best for season 2. Wow. Still speechless.
Martin, the first series of Aftermath has been shown in the UK. It was shown on one of the Sky channels…. I can’t remember which unfortunately. It was incredibly interesting and informative to me (a non scientologist). This program is what really got me interested in the anti scientology movement.
Martin, it’s been and gone on Crime & Investigation but now it’s doing the rounds on Lifetime/Lifetime+1. Fridays at 10.00PM. Sky 156, Virgin 208/209, TalkTalk 329 and BT 329.
I just read your update and it reminded me of a couple of good points.
Leah paid out of her own pocket to hire a film crew to record Amy’s dying mom not knowing if the footage would ever see the last get of day. How is that “Leah does everything for money?” And how is that “Amy wants to be a star?”
I really believed before I watched the Amy Scobee episode that the show would be fluff. That episode had me bawling like a baby.
With friends like Rathbun, who needs enemies?
I no longer feel sorry for Marty. Or at this point, Mosey. If she files for divorce, I will cheer her on. Right now, Monique has chosen to stay with a waste of skin.
Why would she want to divorce her guy who soon or already rolls in dough? How rich is your guy, Valerie?
Troller
A: not as rich as me.
B:: noyfb
+1!
I think Marty is given too much attention. It hurts when people lie about others, but Marty really seemed to have lost his grip on perspective and reality as his utterances are just degraded rantings.
There are important discussions about the actual abuses and the harm that is done by Scientology to people as well as about the “Anti-Scientology-Industry” with their unhelpful excesses like Theroux or Caberta; – how all Scientology critique should be directed at the system and their perpetrators, – not their victims.
If Marty ever tried to make some legitimate point he now completely blew it. Apparently, his mind currently is just one big clusterfuck of anger clouding his ability to properly reason.
It is not easy to undo the damage Scientology afflicts on its victims. Marty could serve as a great example how difficult it is indeed.
About three weeks ago I started reading blogs and watching YouTube videos on the Scientology cult and the criminal acts being done by its high raking members. I am a strong person of Christian faith and I am horrified at the disgusting treatment of this evil cult. I just read about Claire Headley and her story about growing up in this cult. How can Marty Rathbun deny the terrible and sad life stories of the people that have been on the A & E series “Aftermath”. Shame on him!
What if Marty has no other choice, otherwise he would loose his son?
(blackmailed by CoS)
Why would he lose his son…unless his wife pulls a Katie Holmes….and good for her if she does.
LOL is all I can say. 7 years of being an anti-SCN warrior and now he’s being black mailed or giving into threats of losing his son? Come on…. The overt doth speak loudly…. Marty saying Rinder, Leah, Tony about the money, but….. Marty just got PAID….
Damn right he did!
Waldo, is this really you? I can’t believe it. If true, this is the best news I have seen in forever. Message me on FB. Now!
A lot of folks on here think that Marty’s getting paid by the church to change his tune. No way. He’s to me is just sick of the harrasament which he knew was coming and can’t handle it. Changing his tune makes him a liar to me and his statements unreliable . I have never been a scientoligist. And would have no interest in it period. I have a thing against cults in the first place. I was raised Jewish . we know all about mind control thanks to the holocaust. It has a damaging affect on the mind. Marty basically has a damage mind and maybe he always has. His rambling on about ex members is sad and personally I think he should just fade out of the spotlight.
I could go on about this subject. I won’t.
I’ll leave it at a single observation: While Marty started out wielding all kinds of lofty forms of literary critique with the airs of a professorial dilettante (very Hubbardian) his presentation quickly degenerated to nothing but a recitation of aged stale ad-hominem attacks lifted literally from cult hate sites (very Miscavellian).
Time after time, he’s been failing his own test by his own criteria: Not only has he been providing a fact-free narrative (one of his favorite terms) but his allegations failed when they were first offered long ago. They pass neither the smell test nor his own newsworthiness benchmark.
He exhausts even his most well-meaning and open-minded potential audience by sheer volume of shrillness and repetition. Truth can be stated concisely. Lies, as shown by Hubbard needing 55 million words (by Marty’s count) to get his “points” across, require a dazzling unremitting onslaught of pure and unadulterated bullshit.
Marty is a tragic example that sometimes you can take the boy out of the cult but you can’t take the cult out of the boy. As it stands, he finds himself in a comment-disabled echo chamber of his own making. A cult of one, dead agenting no one but himself.
100 times this.
Todd Cray, THIS!
Truth can be stated concisely. Lies, as shown by Hubbard needing 55 million words (by Marty’s count) to get his “points” across, require a dazzling unremitting onslaught of pure and unadulterated bullshit.
Addition to post about the latest conspiracy theories in Part 6 from the scientology version of Alex Jones
It also appears someone is buying or botting views for the videos. Its so obvious too you can tell because the likes and dislikes are in line with the other videos in the dbl digits yet the views are all 40k-50k or so on the newest ones. Something does not add up. lmfao. It also seems like he’s going out of the way to make himself come across as slow, dumb and making it as obvious as possible some of what he said is not his own thoughts eg whatever is written down. Hey contradicts himself repeatedly and it doesn’t like up with reality yet he almost seems to want to get that across like as if he is being paid or coerced or whatever that doing a shitty job will let him say in the future yes I had no choice but I did the worst possible job. Or he’s really lost it, in some videos it seems that way yet others don’t. Its so odd.
Sorry for another comment here, but I could NOT live with myself if the church came to me and offered me a million dollars (or more) to discredit all my friends and family members who are sticking by me during my personal crisis. I would prefer to be struggling financially and have all the troubles that I have, than to be rich but morally bankrupt. I do not know how Marty can live with himself.
I think Marty was offered more than a million and I totally agree. It’s just amazing.
If that is the case… I hate to say it but that’s what life does sometimes, it’s tough as hell to watch. Seen it happen in the military hierarchy and it doesn’t need all that much authority status, but just enough to have power over people. There is some merit to Hubbard’s explanation of overt/withhold phenomena and what the Catholics try to handle with confessionals.
Geezers… I also hate to use this term, but if anyone is motivating it’s Rathbun! Funny thing is I saw/experienced the same sort of thing occur in boarding college too in the ‘prefect system’. At least in those days you could sort out your problems with someone by a “chat” behind the wood pile. However, what Marty has done to his friends and colleagues is unconscionable, but maybe he never really had friends from his perspective or they had certain guidelines of behavior to follow for him to consider them friends, either way, he’s insane Lois. I’m just hoping he’s de-fanged enough to be of little consequence whatever he does.
The first aspect of operating as a organisational Scientologist in authority is sacrificed integrity, the rest is downhill from there. Some can pull out of it, some can’t.
Sadly; I know of people who have easily discredited their friends & families for much less $. The “wasband” & his mother just brush off any interest in being decent to his children & her grandchildren….Yet they act “nice” whenever they get the kids to visit them and then either ignore them or say nasty remarks out of easy hearing. It is just fine with the Cult of S…their kids do not give any $ to the Cult; so they are worthless.
The hypocritical stuff included the “wasband” of being fine with his grown nieces & nephews, and his sister; who are NOT member! gag!
Mike
Your Army is strong and getting stronger.
Marty and Dm are drowning in their own excrement. It is obvious the real script is what Marty reading.
Cudos to you and the troika
Butch, you bring up a good point.
DM is so bothered by the impact of Aftermath, he had to make a deal with his number one enemy Marty Rathbun.
Amazing
The Aftermath program has millions of viewers across the world, and has a real, positive impact. Marty’s bizarre ramblings that contradict his previous statements have very few viewers and virtually no impact. Perhaps, like so much $cientology propaganda, they are intended to pacify the few people who are still in the criminal cult, and get them to remain rather than leave?
Anybody who has seen Scientology and the Aftermath know the pain is real. It’s obviously not scripted to me but if one wants to believe that, it still doesn’t negate the pain.
This church is continuing to prove the point of the show. The pain and the abuses are real; but the church and david miscavige still stick to the viewpoint that the victims of its/his abuses deserve it. Most humane or truly religious entities would try to help those that have been so harmed or who are so bereaved after losing family, friends or loved ones or at least do some kind of a mea culpa.
I continue to be surprised by the lack of compassion or empathy manifested by the church/david miscavige or its sycophants. It is just stunning and these videos certainly won’t change minds about how cruel this religion is.
Scientology (Jehovah witness, Mormones) are invented religions and are so typical American. Maybe all religions are invented!?
So Marty want to cash, so does Leah (she admits). Good for the both of them.
It also gives an inside of how media works.
So don’t watch either of them. No one makes you watch it.
NOPE! Religions are often helpful, an d generous to those who need help….especially those faiths who give without regard to a monetary or “religious type” of return.
Too easy and ignorant to lump “all religions” together as non productive. Check out the Hospitals, medical, financial and homing services funded by many religious practices.
Dear Rudy:
As a devout but not currently practicing Mormon(what a contradiction! ), I can only reply to your comment with a quote from Voltaire:
“I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it”
Peace and brotherly love.
“Maybe all religions are invented.” I certainly think so.
Whew this all has my blood boiling but will not allow it to get me down as I know he is telling lies. I made this post below on a private FB Group and thought I would share it with all of you as the lies Marty has been making need to be exposed. Part 5 is so wrong that I just cannot believe he can say this. I did not get onto the ex-scientology bandwagon until January of 2016 when I was a declared an SP and therefore his 2009 claim is so full of BS. Nothing on the Aftermath series in our episode 7 was scripted or acted or whatever he is claiming. You are full of BS Marty. In fact, it was only in 2015 that Gary and I started to even read anything on the internet to find out the truth of what was happening in scientology.
“So sorry but I am going to go on a bit of a rant here. I just listened to Marty’s Part 2 and it is now personal for me! Brandon Reisdorf did NOT have any contact with Mike Rinder or Leah Remini prior to throwing the hammer! In fact, he was still being a scn’st even tho he had left, prior to him having a breakdown – also fact, he had hardly read anything on the internet by that time and especially not Leah’s book. When Gary and I started filming with A&E there was NO plan for Brandon to even be on the show – he was in recovery from his breakdown. It was MUCH later that he made the decision to be on the show and they filmed his part MUCH later (actually a few weeks before our episode 7 aired).Marty also says Brandon threw a brick thru the window intending to harm someone and that is also NOT true – it was done at 2am in the morning into the the front window on LA Org when NOBODY was there, with a hammer. I just needed to set the record straight and vent to you all.”
Lois my heart goes out to you and your family for all that you went through and continue to have to deal with. I think most of the general public can see through the Bs and know you and your family only spoke your truth!!!! I will continue to support those who have been brave enough to speak out against this cult!!!!
Very kind and true words. Thank you.
You know the truth about your son and we the audience who watch that episode know it too. Don’t let him try to discredit you
I have your back, try not to to let the lying bastards get to you. After I was declared a Cult member, while in the Times Square Subway Station, yelled to me that I Killed people and I was a thief.
I totally understand that sometimes you just HAVE to tell the truth against lies, if just for your sanity. It was driving me crazy that most bloggers were trying to stay above Marty’s recent videos and not address them… and I’m not even someone whom he attacked. I am so glad Mike finally felt that Marty’s lies could not just be ignored any more. He is hurting REAL PEOPLE. Vulnerable, scared, suffering people. All of whom deserve a forum to respond to his garbage. Thank you, Mike, Lois and all the others who are facing his cos scripts of hate with heartfelt responses of truth. I, too, notice how he is looking down at what seem to be note cards (have to get the rhetoric wording to meet Miscavidge approval – in keeping with the “every square inch” script); that same suit (do you think these videos might have been filmed all on the same day?); his poorly applied pancake makeup and lackluster line delivery. As though he’s following orders, not following his conscience. Scary stuff.
I believe the entire discourse was videotaped in one day.
Just an observation from me but, he could have thrown that hammer at 2pm in the afternoon with no chance of injuring anyone.
“I was there at the time and these abuses these people claim are all made up” But my abuses were so real and bad that I had to leave!
JERK
Then Wright released a book that misrepresented me so badly that I promptly returned to be in his/Gibney’s film as well. Now I’m compelled to make my own video advocating for the group I had to flee from. Victim or volunteer?
It’s truly amazing
I just want to get this right, everyone is lying about their stalking and abuse by the cult except for Marty? Is he going to say that Scientology who stalked him, did Squirrel Busters and sent sex toys to his wife’s work, ONLY DID IT TO HIM? That such an organization has only one enemy????
Anon Sparrow FTW The Federal case was a joke, the civic case (to cop an expression from Bob Dylan) was a pig circus.My personal opinion is that MR in no way shape or form wants to be associated with ‘Troika’ and/or the machinations of those guiding the narrative. As Groucho Marx once quipped “I refuse to join any club that would have me as a member.”
I think Marty needs to get on a medical marijuana program.
Maybe he already has along with the medical crack program….
I can help with that…
OR, another oldie but goodie:
‘Contribute to the motion….’
I contribute to the Loco Motion. And it’s never let me down.
It’s tough to have a tug when you’re in a straight jacket but I’m sure there’s a way.
Just imagine this though – a one on one conversation with Rathbun… wow, talk about uncomfortable silences… geezers!
I am still trying to figure out who Marty’s intended audience is. His videos go far out of the area of reasoned critique and into an alternate reality based on pure fiction. Yet they can’t be viewed by cult members because they will raise too many questions. Marty almost begs you to read Going Clear, read Tony’s blogs and watch Mike & Leah’s series on A&E just so you understand what he is talking about. How can someone in the cult do that? The videos can’t be for us because we can see though the tissue thin veneer of credibility and recognize all the talking points from the many earlier attach videos put out by the cult. An uninformed viewer would not understand anything being said and would tune out after a few seconds. Yet the videos must be for this latter group since Marty’s backers have decided to pay YouTube to promote the Troublemaker series (but not the Going Clear ones for some reason). Perhaps they were embarrassed by the falling view counts. YouTube counts a “view” of a video after only a few seconds so the counts include anyone who clicked on the promoted link. The only two people in the world that will actually enjoy these videos are Marty and DM.
That’s what I was gonna say at the start of your comment and then you answered it at the end…the only audience is Mi$cavige and all his egos.
There’s another, more important target audience here. That is, every attorney in any future $cn-related legal proceeding who might have considered hiring MR as an expert witness or compelling him to testify as a reliable sworn witness until his wholesale self-immolation here.
It seems clear that he’s either been paid or blackmailed into dead agenting himself so completely that, as they say in Hollywood, “he’s never going to work in this town again.” That’s worth a whole lot to the cult, and to lil davey in particular, especially with Hurricane Leah about to make landfall with the cult dead in her path.
Harpoona, very good point.
It is also significant that these videos are coming out right before the Maiden Voyage Anniversary events roll out. Possibly an edited version was even included in one of the events. They happened on the Freewinds sometime in the last few weeks.
If Dave Miscavige had a video that he thought could completely nullify the effects of the Aftermath series, that could discredit Mike and Leah, that could pull his fat out of the fire, he would not care that it was Marty that was featured in it. He would use it.
The Aftermath series is like garlic and the silver bullet to Dave. Like Sunlight pouring in the window. Like a stake through his heart. The Aftermath shows are popular and truthful. He is shunned by the public and full of lies. The Aftermath shows are going for the jugular with their hints about the non-profit status of the Church and the victims of abuse.
Dave is like a cornered rabid coyote right now, there is no telling what he is capable of doing.
I don’t claim to know what is really going on, but it would not surprise me at all to find out that Dave is behind it somehow.
Yes, the attorneys! Excellent insight. Miscavige would have to be worried about his ability to hire attorneys given the popularity of Aftermath. But this sounds like an utterly desperate ploy because good attorneys do their due diligence beforehand…interesting.
He’s doing his amends project. Striking a blow to the enemy.
Maybe Miscavige needs him by his side again and is willing to do whatever it takes. Horrible dark thought isn’t it?
He is TC’s auditor after all.
Think about that for a moment and extrapolate…
A 3rd party or hidden influence in the background maybe? Perhaps DM has some internal pressure or influence of his own he’s trying to placate. Nothing is as ever as it seems with organised Scientology.
Nothing, indeed.
The whole Marty-series seems like another miscalculation by Miscavige.
I agree there seems to be a specific audience in mind, and I think it IS Scientologists.
Because DM can no longer be sure he knows who is peeping into the outside world, who is nattering, and who is picking up on all that and simply wondering quietly.
He can’t know … and is paranoid anyway.
So he tries to cover too many bases in this, to have that hushing effect on the inside. This is why it is not specific in some areas, especially as to the content and context of the ‘anti’ material and the questions we ask, and then he just flat out lies in other areas. Might as well cover some legal denials while we’re at it! To the discerning outsider, it’s as obvious as Fake News.
These impressions return to me over and over.
If they fantasize that they’re kidding anyone else, it’s just another sci delusion.
That they don’t even see their obviously lame presentation to the world … pathetic.
Marty’s motives may be hidden, but we have a multiple choice list of suspicions, to which I am going to guess ‘all of the above’.
Does it even matter who the audience is? SOB has him dancing on a hook. Do what SOB says or there’ll be a price to pay. It’s just like old times!
SOB can take the hook out or give the line a tug and sink it in a little further. Either or. Neither he nor Rathbun knows which it will be! Maybe both! It’s better than a video game!
I think the reason Marty is putting out so many short videos rather than one or two diatribes is because when a person Google’s Leah, Mike or Tony there is a good chance that a few of these videos will pop-up on their feed. This is Marty’s attempt to counter all the other sites who are promoting the Aftermath in a positive manner. And most likely on behalf of DM.
Mike, you quote him from Leah vid No.5 (which he’s reading by the way):
“so obviously scripted, rehearsed, acted and dramatized every step of the way it’s a whole new level of false impression”.
Some of which is word-for-word identical to the cult media utterances published a few days ago.
http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/23/emmy-watch-leah-remini-scientology-aftermath/
“is nothing more than a scripted, rehearsed, acted, and dramatized work of fiction.” (paragraph 4).
Oops!
The dwarf slipped up in his incessant micromanagement such that his phraseology is turning up everywhere, in spite of the identity of the purported speaker.
Hey, Davey!
Wouldn’t it be better to delegate and NOT have to do everything yourself?
It’s just like that time Rinder’s and De Vocht’s ex-wives were on Anderson Cooper and they both repeated the “I know every inch” line.
Yep, right at the point in the vid where he voices that cult quote he’s looking at his notes and appears to be reading from them.
Somebody’s aspiring cult spokesperson didn’t learn his script very well it seems 😉
Mike, you and he fishing and having gone through so much together, so so much, appears to mean nothing. Maybe you and he were never close. But take heart, he just called Amy Scobee a friend and ripped into her statements and motivations. What the word friend means to him is beyond me. Marty made some big contributions and helped a lot of folks. But I am not now seeing the man I assumed he was.
I am either slow to catch on or someone has stolen Marty. He could have reinvented himself or found himself, I don’t know which. That can happen and is usually a positive result. A person identifies and drops their false personalities. Maybe he thinks he has to distance himself from the so-called ASC as well as the church to be who he sees himself to be. But calling Amy a friend while attacking at the same time was one of those things they call in scientology an “outpoint”.
Marty…what a waste. I was always treated him with a hard side-eye, but I also remained optimistic he’d eventually get to a point where he’d truly shed the indoc–and arrogance–and move toward a true humanitarian trajectory like Mike has. When I saw his interviews in Going Clear, I thought he’d finally turned that corner. Sadly, when some people finally stand face-to-face with their unvarnished selves, it’s too painful and it breaks them. So much for the brave warrior. Whatever you’re doing, Marty, and why, is it really worth it?
Maybe he wants to put the uniform back on, he’s realized he’s comfortable and feels safe wearing it.
Seems plausible to me, It’s better with the devil you know, I guess. This is the uniform, so to speak, that also got him the most unchallenged respect, and maybe the big bad warrior just can’t hack out in the real world. Best to go back to being the goldfish in the guppy pond to assuage that ego, yeah?
Marty’s videos are filled with so much asshattery and lulz, it’s like he’s personally giving all his viewers a lifetime supply of popcorn and personally dousing it with spray butter and hot sauce after serving it up on a silver platter.
And of top of this his body language shows he is lying. “Poor Marty” has sold his soul. Pathetic
The way I see it, there are several different “camps” with many shades of grey in between.
There’s the camp that says L Ron Hubbard was a total scoundrel, total fraud and never had an honest intention to help anyone.
There’s the camp that still believes everything L Ron Hubbard did was spot on. Miscavige screwed it up all by himself or with the help of the CIA, the FBI, the international bankers and/or extraterrestrial forces.
There’s the camp that believes much good came out of the scientology experiment and that it would be helpful to have that useful stuff in use in society. Some believe credit should be given to Hubbard, some do not.
Then there’s the dwindling group of people who believe everything L Ron said and believe that Miscavige is an infallible heir to the throne.
Many of my friends lament the lack of recognition of the good parts of auditing while watching Mike and Leah’s presentation of factual damage done to individuals and the utterly savage aspects of forced disconnection. I personally don’t have a problem with it. It doesn’t appear to be the presenter’s assumed hat to balance the good with the bad. It’s just a great big knowledge report to the public at large of how toxic the Co$ is and a warning to stay away from it.
I recall writing accurate knowledge reports in the Co$ and being given sec checks and truth rundowns to try and convince me that what I saw is not what I saw. Brainwashing tactics delivered by the guilty. Since Miscavige, and L Ron Hubbard too, refused to accept truthful reports written on THEM, they have simply been bypassed and now none of their shortcomings or crimes remain secret.
If my analysis is accurate, and the useful elements of auditing are truly helpful, then those elements will continue to be used by people who have chosen to spend their lives assisting people to overcome their own internal disharmony. I’ve delivered grades to seven people in the past year and all of them have improved their lives during the process. Life repair type auditing can be equally beneficial IF the auditor is only concerned with the viewpoint and welfare of the person he’s auditing.
Those few who try to convince me that what I’m doing is perpetuating bullshit are just as ill-informed as the ethics officers and OSA bots in the Co$.
Now to the point. It’s my opinion that anyone buying into what Mark Rathbun is now saying is stuck in the viewpoint that they need someone else to tell them what is going on. It’s quite likely that only avid Co$ supporters will accept his current dialogue as factual. And if Miscavige is hoping for some sort of positive outcome from the videos, as usual, it’s going to backfire.
Great post LDW. I like your take on the situation. Having for years been pretty much in the 3rd camp you mention, I’m glad to see you boil it down so succinctly. Here’s what I posted, commenting on Marty’s last installment:
Fascinating. The response this evoked in me is that “This is no more than Miscavige deserves”. The entire Church show is scripted and invented, the Events, the promos, the websites, the entire presentation of what the Church, the IAS, the whole shebang, is an invented fiction – why not give them a taste of their own medicine? It seems like a weirdly appropriate form of “justice”. Karma? The Church’s 1.1-ness coming home to roost.”
In fact Hubbard stated in his Ethics book, that a Suppressive Person may be “lied to” in the course of being dealt with. The Church has long since become a Suppressive organization. Thus following its own policies on handling a Suppressive is entirely just. If the entire “Aftermath” show is scripted and invented, more power to them. It is no more than the Church, the IAS etc deserve, to have their own inventions countered. So, I feel it makes no practical difference. The basic kernels of truth are what matter. I still have no idea why Marty chose to come out with this series, and structured it the way he has. I doubt he’s being paid off. I’m not one to make inferences about these kind of things, I leave the guesswork to others, having myself no skin in the game.
+1
Stay tuned for more Episodes of “Alter-is and Degraded Beings”. Now featuring a cast of billions…..lol.
Great post – except that on the last paragraph, I think a poster on Marty’s got it right:
morelivesthanacat | June 25, 2017 at 7:45 am | Reply
“Excellent evaluation of how it’s done. But these are not the only culprits. From Int PR to Gold to the mainstream media and even the alternative media–it’s all ‘perception management’ of narratives. I really wonder if there are any real journalists out there anywhere. Or if there ever were. I really do.” https://markrathbun.blog/2017/06/24/leah-remini-and-her-troublemakers-part-5/#comment-352290
Mike’s and Leah’s series is apparently the way this type of show is done.
Mike’s and Leah’s series is apparently the way this type of show is done.
Which “type” of show are you referring to?
Are you saying you believe The Aftermath is “perception management of narratives” and you accept Marty and scientology’s ramblings that it is all scripted, rehearsed and acted?
Please explain if this is your view?
I have the idea that professional journalists don’t inject their opinions and that they cover all sides to an issue. You and Leah do express your opinions openly, which isn’t unusual for a docuseries.
In previous posts, Marty has indicated he has attention on the outpoints with media in general, and now seems to be using Scientology stories as an example.
I’ll try and ask more simply for you:
Do you think The Aftermath is scripted, rehearsed and acted?
No, I don’t. And I think Marty gave the wrong impression when he used those terms, because his actual description of what occurs was that before the person tells their story, it has been set up by someone in the production, and then after they tell it additional evaluation is made. Those things seem to be what he is calling scripted, but to me it just comes under the heading of expressing opinions – which. as I say, is what the series is all about.
I don’t mean it’s just about opinions, it’s also about facts.
Marildi, i think you are objectively describing the process (producers – having previously interviewed the parties – have an idea ahead of time of what will be said, they plan out the presentation, then block out the ‘story’ in a certain way.) I feel like you give Marty too much credit though, because my understanding of how he explained it was that someone made up a story or grossly exaggerated some facts, then Leah & mike interjected some commentary that was deliberately trying to manipulate reality & perceptions of the viewers in a way that benefited all the co-conspirators. So I think Marty’s use of the termed scripted and rehearsed are exactly what he meant to say, even though that’s maybe not how you saw it.
Marildi, please ask Marty what circular reasoning is and please stop practicing it O.o its like a path to nowhere that you can use as a platform upon which to form a senseless argument to confound and baffle others.
Marildi,, I can’t communicate to you on Marty’s blog as he won’t post my comments anymore (even though I have been very respectful to him on them, never once bashing him personally, even complimenting him on occasion, but I guess I don’t fully buy into his viewpoints enough).
As I have had an email correspondence with you, you know that I have been very upfront about the great wins I have had in all flows of auditing in my 35 years in the CoS, (as well as my great respect for a lot of LRH’s work), and also about my still current successes in applying Scientology basics to life in different parts of the world. So you know I am not one to “bash the tech” (though how I hate using those words, “the tech).
I just think you have an almost TOTAL misconception about what The Aftermath is about and what Leah and Mike are doing. The program is NOT intended to be ANY type of exploration (much less a full one) about the philosophy of Scientology nor about LRH’s work on auditing procedure and processes. That kind of a program would probably take a hundred hours at least to explore these facets of Scientology well enough and would much more appropriate to a youtube channel than for commercial TV and would be for those relatively few people (the “never ins”) who would be interested in devoting this kind of time to learning about the subject (and who should really read LRH books if they were so interested.) My only criticism of the movie “Going Clear” in not devoting at least seven minutes or so to a few people relaying great wins that kept them in the CoS is that I think doing that would have given a never-in viewer more of a real idea of “the Scientology experience.”
The Aftermath is a program that is exposing the very VERY real human rights abuses of the Church of Scientology. YOU may label these as Mike’s and Leah’s opinions, but they are in fact, FACTS. They are true life stories of incredible abuse that very devoted Scientologist who have given DECADES of their life in devotion to the CoS, have had to suffer. I am a bit shocked that YOU weren’t completely shocked by a story like what Lois Reisdorf and family went through.
Mike and Leah are exposing to the public at large the TRUTH about disconnection, financial extortion, abuse to families, children and senior citizens. These stories about these kinds of abuses are not about “the tech” nor are they intended to be. These stories are not “opinions.” They are very REAL. These stories are putting into the public domain FACTS that people watching should most definitely have when they are considering whether or not they want to become involved in Scientology.
I personally consider what Mike and Leah are doing as noble work.
Joe: “I just think you have an almost TOTAL misconception about what The Aftermath is about and what Leah and Mike are doing. The program is NOT intended to be ANY type of exploration (much less a full one) about the philosophy of Scientology nor about LRH’s work on auditing procedure and processes.”
If the series had nothing to do with the philosophy of Scientology, then it shouldn’t have included things that gave the impression there was very little if any value in it, and in fact harm. I’m not going to watch all the episodes again to be able to quote specifics, but one thing I remember is Leah repeatedly stating that her “whole life” in Scientology “was a lie.” At best, the overall message is that Scientology may seem good at first but people are just being fooled.
Joe: “I am a bit shocked that YOU weren’t completely shocked by a story like what Lois Reisdorf and family went through.”
Sorry, but you’re dubbing that in. I am appalled at what happened to the Reisdorfs and others. And I have great hopes that Mike and Leah are going to do something effective about the abuses. I have posted positive comments after each of the episodes.
marilidi, I’ll ultimately leave it to Mike to weigh in on your answer to his question, if he chooses to do so. However, I want to say that I appreciate your fairly straightforward answer to the question – which sounds like you recognize and acknowledge what the series is trying to do.
Honestly, I tend to think you’re sincere – but the way you ask a lot of questions but answer very little, is also rather troll-like, and does sometimes leave me (along with others) wondering if you just intend to disrupt the conversation. I wish you’d get to the point like this and say what you really think, more often.
Uh…thanks, PM. Somewhere in there was a validation. 🙂
She won’t answer you Mike. Because it’s a simple straight out question. It’s not a riddle or evasive! This poster posts all the time over there After each of Muddys video, with bullshit!
Marie, exactly! you just called her out. Rinder called it right on another post, she’s a Pollyanna all the way.
She won’t answer you Mike because her name is Marildi.
Marildi wrote on Marty’s blog – June 24th “I would agree that the episodes in the Aftermath series are “scripted,” in that there is a premeditated agenda – which is primarily to focus on essentially forced disconnection. That focus in itself wouldn’t strike me as dishonest, if it weren’t for the fact that it’s too one-sided and deliberately leaves out anything that would be too positive about the core subject of Scientology, This is basically propaganda – very much the same as what they accuse the church of.”
This is the answer to your question Mike.
Aha – thanks. This is pretty clear. Marildi apparently likes to say one thing here and another there.
Not very ladylike.
She does that all the time, Mike. Either constantly changing her versions, evading to answer direct questions, or going down the tangent. Just take a look at her old posts at Geir’s. At one point, Geir even thouht that she worked for the CofS (she doesn’t). Her basic modus operandi seems to be playing the Devil’s advocate role all the time. She loves to stir up trouble. In fact, you will seldom see posts from her unless there is a possible conflict in them.
Ouch!
Sorry to butt in to what is not my thread, but it would be silly for anyone to think that no management of perception and narrative takes place, especially in the making of tv shows which cost a lot of money to do, and are playing for big stakes in capturing and holding the interest and attention of potentially millions of viewers. There are “documentaries”, docuseries, docudramas etc. There simply has to be management going on. Otherwise there would be a lot of chaos and unhappy backers losing money, producers getting fired, etc. The show in question is a “human interest” show. As such it has to interest humans. There are bound to be elisions, omissions, narratives to promote etc.
You don’t even make sense! You talk in circles and riddles just like Marty does and also the way you post over there on his blog?
“You don’t even make sense! You talk in circles and riddles just like Marty does and also the way you post over there on his blog.”
That’s the sad story of Marildi, Marie; ALWAYS talking in circles and never ever capable of directly debating anything. She used to drive Geir Isene crazy at his blog due to this conduct. What you are observing here, Marie, is an armchair “philosopher” who can’t confront evil, and who can’t confront her own mind. A very sad tale about how Scn can totally fuck-up the mind of anyone coming into contact with it.
I ran in circles while talking once. It got me no where.
You are so funny!
“Many of my friends lament the lack of recognition of the good parts of auditing while watching Mike and Leah’s presentation of factual damage done to individuals and the utterly savage aspects of forced disconnection.”
But Aftermath did acknowledge some of the good parts in Scientology. Leah and Mike did mention that some of the lower-level courses at the beginning of the bridge are helpful. You can see it yourself, it’s about eight minutes into the third episode. This subject wasn’t discussed at length but it wasn’t completely ignored.
LDW, great comment. Amen, Bubba! 🙂
You’re a good man LDW. Nicely stated!
Obviously he got some kind of huge payoff for all this. Probably more than he would have gotten if he continued his wife’s suit against the church.
Shame his story has come to this. To me, he looks like he is trying real hard to believe what he’s saying.
This isn’t changing an ex-members opinions about the church or about Mike,Leah or Tony. Don’t think the general public is following this as YouTube views are low.
Can only guess what the church will do with this completed mock interview. Only die-hards and their progeny remain so I see little impact.
Perhaps they’re trying to create media interest in showing a former opponent of the church changing sides and defending the church against its critics. Pretty sure the major media outlets can see through this.
It’s all so pathetic……..
“Shame his story has come to this. To me, he looks like he is trying real hard to believe what he’s saying”.
He isn’t an actor, is he?
If Marty was an actor he’d probably be more believable.
His wordiness, blinking, lip movements all indicate to me that he’s saying things that he knows aren’t true.
It’s no coincidence this is happening on the advent of “Aftermath” season 2.
I don’t know either… but it takes a special kind of talent to publicly wallow in bullshit and keep a straight face! Politics is a great example of that kind of talent, religion is another. I personally ponder the greatest of philosophical questions, “do all fisherman lie, or, do only lairs fish?
The payoff is, SOB eased off of the vise that he has Rathbun’s balls in. To Rathbun that must have been awesome relief.
Problem for Rathbun is, his balls are still in it. SOB can apply the pressure any time he feels like. Refuse to do the videos? *SQUEEZE*
Don’t like it? Well, you can always try your little lawsuit again. Ha! ha! ha!
It’s a hell of an entertainment for a sociopath.
So.. he knew them 9 years ago. Is he implying he knew every minute detail about ALL CO$ ALL THE TIME?
It reminds me of that Cruise interview when he claimed to have studied pharmocology (psychdrugs bad).
They must be heavily indoctrinated, or scripted or rehearsed.
I am not getting on Rathbuns website
Anyone else having the same experience?
Hmmm I wouldn’t worry why would you try to go there 😉
Back up for me
I have had the same problem, and had to turn off my antivirus and VPN in order to get on there. I then ran a scan afterward when I left and turned everything back on, and found nothing hitching a ride, so to speak. But I will not be going back there anymore.
Deb, according to my own experience and multiple reports the website had some sort of intermittent problems, and it’s likely just coincidence that it came back up for you after you did certain things.
Yes. I was checking in just to see how many he’s made so far, but I’m not even going to do that anymore.
I also have been to Marty’s page and watched two of his new videos. If you look at the number of comments he was getting when he was just babbling about reading this or teaching that, they were a couple hundred or more.
Then, he started this vitriol on people he apparently only pretended to care about. His comments on every one of those vids is dismal. I think even his diehard fans are seeing that he has gone off the deep end with this. He looks defeated, reading from cues cards he keeps looking at, and he puts in a creepy laugh at certain times and it looks forced. No one will ever trust him again with anything they have going in their private lives, since he has now for the past year thrown a whole lot of people under the bus. He has done that by going on TV shows to talk smack about people, radio shows, giving Scientology files and emails from people he audited. And Scientology has used one of those emails in court now (Dani Lemberger) and I bet everyone who has said something like Dani did (he says he was joking about what he said) is worried they will be pulled into things in the future. Even if they have nothing to do with what they could potentially be pulled into. Giving that email that Dani sent him in confidence was low, really low.
He looks pained in these videos, like he could at any moment jump up and attack anyone within his body range. He will lose everyone he has audited, worked with on TV or radio shows and most of his closest friends. It probably drives him batshit crazy that he has no one he can mow over with his insights or tell them how they should be living their lives. I think he is going off the deep end, very sad but he brought all of the things he is going through now on himself. He will have to live with that running around in his head, every time he looks around and sees no one there to talk but those in his family.
And he keeps using the word, “Troika” in reference to Mike, Tony O and Leah Remini. But there has to be a driver of those horses and I think I know who he has in that position. I think he has Karen De La Carriere there. He seems to think she pulls the strings for the three I already mentioned and everyone else speaking out about the abuses in Scientology. Why does he care so much about what other people are doing? He cares because he is so pissed that he is not top dog anymore, when before he was THE guy to go to for anything outside the Church. He was a rock star, and now he is just a tired and bitter old man, pissed at everyone who moved on without him. He puts down people who are getting paid for talking about what happened to them and why they left (or was kicked out) the Church. But didn’t HE get paid too? I seriously doubt he audited for free, traveled places to speak for free, assisted in court cases and TV and documentaries for free. But these days he is not getting asked to do those things, so he puts out that he refuses to do any of that anymore and trashes those that do. No one is really listening to him anymore and it drives him nutz.
Sad. Truly sad. I hope he can turn this around and come back to present time.
I think he has been, and is being, asked to do those public things, but has been refusing.
Iamvalkov, “I think he has been, and is being, asked to do those public things, but has been refusing.”
why do you think that?
He has said so, and I think some others can verify this. Including Leah and Mike, as well as producers of Leah’s show.
It’s interesting to read the “WELCOME” page on his blog. While he removed all the archives, he left that up. It invites people to come to him for scn type services. That’s just as strange as the rest of the crap he is doing. It’s sad. I really relied in those earlier blog posts to help me process all the awful things I experienced in the crazy cult.
He removed the archives so that it isn’t as easy to call him out for being a hypocrite and slime bucket. Or, he was ordered to by the CoS
I’m no Marty fan, but his blog’s archives have been working just fine for me today.
Thanks for the correction M2C, I’ll try again soon.
His anti-Scientology books are still up for sale too.
Burning the candle from both ends… but hey… it’s about money mixed with stupidity isn’t it?
Switching things around like that is something Scientology is somewhat adept at. Hubbard made it into an artform – “I’ll set you free my friend, just sign here & all will be as it should be.”
+1! Outstanding post!
Amethyst, what archives have been removed?
The main page still looks pretty much the same to me – including categories like Miscavige Crimes, with articles going back to the beginning of the blog.
His archives came up for me, but I could not even get on the page at all unless I removed my antivirus and VPN from my virtual machine. I would not go there at all without running a VM first, to keep any spyware or virus from contaminating my system, just a heads up.
Marty clearly made a good deal with Miscavidge.
Why shouldn’t he? I think I would have done the same.
LOL! Is that you, OTVIII? 😛
IDIOT!
Do you mean Trump, Miscavige, or Benedict Rathbun?
Sadly for Marty he seems to be on a familiar path. If so, then he will be buying a motor home in a remote location, start self auditing his Entities who are at war in his head, and get a prescription for Vistaril.
That which can be asserted without evidence …..can be dismissed without evidence!
Mastroianni & Hart
I believe the purpose of these videos are like a youtube hate site for Leah’s show. dm is hoping that people searching Leah and the show on youtube will run into marty’s videos dissing her and the entire show. Now that marty put Leah’s name in the title, he is getting way more views and the videos are likely to appear when someone searches the show on youtube.
For me, a russian speaker to hear “troika” is so funny.
His videos are on paid ads on youtube even in russia. Well done OSA and Golden Era.
Why all of a sudden when the videos started coming up did Marty Rathbun no longer have the free WordPress blog site he has had since 2009 but now has markrathbun.blog,
Why is the blog “he” is paying for originally created on June 8, 2017 then registered anonymously in June 25, 2017 by Knock Knock Who is Not There https://whois.icann.org/en/lookup?name=Markrathbun.blog
Who is paying to do Marty’s makeup?
Who bought the suit?
Who paid for the camera crew?
Who paid for the professional lighting?
Most logical answer to all these is it’s all part of his settlement. (I know, what is logical about any of this…but anyway…). Here’s how it used to go down and probably still does:
Golden Era or SMP filmed it, Mi$cavige scripted it after trying to make others write it, then hate what they did, bullied them and then did it himself, and the makeup, suit, etc. are parts of the preps for the filming, paid for either by the film’s budget or in this case probably by parishioner’s donations to help the cherch fight against evil people everywhere.
The actual filming and labor of any kind on set was supplied by sea org members who get to eat crappy food and get a couple dollars pay a week for their efforts of 16-hour days and literally being on call 24/7. That’s how Mi$cavige can boast about how “his studios” can get so much more done than Hollywood at such a cheaper price.
I am only asking these questions because I have not watched any of the videos but it is my understanding from comments people have made that in one of the first ones, Marty tells us to follow the money so I think we should do that where a Marty is concerned.
Valerie, the video footage is explained in the intro, as “cuts” from the end of some interview where Rathbun got to tell what he thinks is “the other side of the story” while the camera was still rolling. I see no reason not to take that at face value.
Rathbun seems to me to be defending the subject of Scientology – not the CofS, which along with Miscavige, he still critiques mercilessly in older blog posts and videos. He’s never renounced his Great Middle Path independent Scientology effort, though he did stop writing about it for a while. So I think it is reasonable to assume that this is simply just his pet project, and he likely has a bit of technical help and possibly some backing from remaining supporters in the indie community.
Marty’s brain is deeply permanently rutted from his decades of being Miscavige’s unquestioned top Scientology movement henchman.
Wow. Talk about Orwell’s 1984 revisited.
I wonder what “rats” Miscavige and his lawyers dug up to get Marty to put out these videos. And if it wasn’t Miscavige then I’m truly baffled.
Another player or players? Now that’s… well… not entirely out of the equation I suppose, stranger things have happened. Anything is possible within the realm of the real dealers in money and power. TC & JT were pals with Clinton & his administration for awhile and the heavy weights of Hollywood are not to be taken lightly in what and how they will respond to things if they think their bottom line is going to be affected or if they imagine they can foresee themselves being put in an embarrassing situation if they don’t do something. Sacrificing someone like Marty would be a piece of cake for them. Interesting… an X-Files scenario?
Could all be something simple too, like Marty has blown a mental gasket or succumbed to DM.
I am still really saddened by this turn of events. It had felt like Monique’s case would have good standing. I watched his videos up to the “Leah Remini and her Troublemakers” video and it truly was just a bunch of rambling. He made it incredibly obvious he was reading from some type of script just with the rustle of the papers every so often, and even the production quality of his videos. Compare that with his first few from only a couple of years ago and it’s like watching someone go through some strange possession. The words and tactics are also clearly that of CoS. I just find it incredibly ironic that he hasn’t even taken down his videos from 2 years ago that clearly were damning to Scientology.
Thank you MIke for posting this. I was wondering why Marty was not even mentioned in the fabulous work that Leah and you are causing. Now it makes sense. I have no idea why Marty went off the rails but I have to assume that some of the shit that psychopath davie dumped on him, finally hit home. A remaining mystery for me is how the hell does the evil psychopath davie stay in power.
Hey Marty,
How about word clearing the last paragraph of this blog post. Mike makes an excellent point in a blog post replete with specific examples. You, however , speak in broad generalizations. And who did you say the SP was?
When he said these people’s stories weren’t worthy of being news, that was the final straw for me. These stories actually ARE news to a large number of individuals who started learning about them thanks to Aftermath (including me). It has greater raised awareness and increased the exposure of this abisive organization.
Also, since last night, I have been unable to get to his blog online. It’s simple been down overnight. Not sure what, if anything, to make of that.
COB was probably deleting the archives lol
When I first noticed something weird about Marty was when he’s made a wild accusation and when asked for docs he’d say, “Stay tuned”. But, he would then never get back with the proof. At that point I though maybe he was getting paranoid.
I guess he went wildly downhill after that.
I heard he went Hell in a bobsled. Unfortunately, the denizens that live in Hell gave him the boot. I’m sure he’ll write about it…
thank you for continuing to stand for the truth.
Mike,
To fact check Marty and his parroting of the CofS dead-agenting lines, compare.
Marty’s Video/Mike Rinder’s Blog quote above:
“Apart from continuing to repeat his completely false assumption that the show is “so obviously scripted, rehearsed, acted and dramatized every step of the way it’s a whole new level of false impression” (as he constantly looks down to his notes to make sure he is covering all the points he is supposed to get out)..”
With, $cientology’s Response to Entertainment Weekly:
“(The Church of Scientology disputes the claims made on the series, saying Aftermath “is nothing more than a scripted, rehearsed, acted, and dramatized work of fiction.”)”
http://ew.com/tv/2017/06/23/emmy-watch-leah-remini-scientology-aftermath/
(fourth paragraph in the article)
Note reading, indeed,
I had long ago stopped visiting MR’s blog, as he sank into the sunset – or rather disappeared into the fog. But I decided to check it out after seeing so many posts his videos attacking Mike and Leah. I too was puzzled as to “why” and “why now” these frequent short clips. He is the “pot calling the kettle black” – or “the overt doth speak loudly in accusation” – as he accuses Leah and Mike of a scripted show while he himself sits in a staged film setting, constantly referring to his prepared notes to make sure he gets his speicific propaganda lines covered. I found it interesting that his specific accusations against Mike and Leah echo exactly the cult abuses that Mike and Leah have been exposing, resulting in tremendous uproar by the public, who are seeing the truth now that Scientology and the Aftermath has lifted the rock to expose the serpent cult below.
You , Leah, the Aftermath and all who speak out, must be doing something right and effective. The cherch is afraid of truth and go to far extremes to defend. They are not very smart or seem unable to change even one thing for betterment of people. Poor used (or afraid) Marty, very sad.
Marty uses the word liar a lot. He may start using the word maleficence. If you’re following this unfold. Those words sound familiar.
I think marty is butthurt because he has not found the same level of success as M. Rinder, nor has he found the same level of respect. It’s like someone close to him asked him, “Why aren’t you on TV with famous people? Didn’t you used to be an executive like that guy? I thought you were important, too!!!”
That’s a far more polite suggestion than my view (which is that he took a massive bung from Little Dave and is now whoring himself out as a cult spokeshole)
I think actually, he has been refusing invitations to be in shows etc.
When did he start refusing to be on shows? Was it after Monique dropped her suit, perchance?
I haven’t been really keeping track, but it seems to me it was after he worked with Louis Theroux on “My Scientology Movie”.
I believe that movie was done in 2015.
I know that people have probably been asking this, but I’m just curious, Mike, do you have any idea where or with whom these videos are being shot? I just can’t figure out his target audience. He has no credibility with people who have suffered and got out, and as far as I can see, he is still declared. So any “scientologist in good standing” would not be allowed to watch!
Also want to thank you for all you do, eye opening for me! But especially thanks to you and the comments. I just can’t watch anymore of him, and I get just enough from this and Tony’s site, so that I don’t have to!
Like you said, he has no credibility w/ people who already know about what the church does, and “good” scientologists can’t watch, so in my mind his intended audience must be those in the middle. Scientologists that are under the radar or those who are just starting to have thoughts of leaving. Although I’d think that the people utr have already made up their minds so the only people I think these videos will have any impact whatsoever on is the ones thinking of leaving and just starting to watch & read things on the Internet. Their minds aren’t set yet and they haven’t fully gotten out of the Scientology mind-set. The “church” must have reason to believe that this group of people is bigger than I imagine it to be. Which is a good thing to me. The more people even thinking of getting out the better.
I don’t believe Marty’s plan is to plant seeds of distrust among the “troika” even though that is what he is apparently doing in these videos. I can’t believe anyone who is out and has followed Marty and the others who have spoken out over the last 10 years would take his statements in any way seriously. So I dismiss his ideas about an “anti scientology cult”. The videos are just way too inept if that was their purpose.
What I have no doubt about is that he has dead agented himself as a source of anything whatever about Scientology in any aspect. He has rendered himself as unreliable at the very best. That much has to be deliberate. Why he would do that I’m not at all sure but I am certain he has done that. Anyone who disagrees please speak up.
Who benefits? Possibly the Church. They can show his videos to discredit Marty. But that doesn’t answer the question why would Marty agree to do that for the Church? A payoff? It seemed to me he was looking at a pretty good payoff from his wife’s lawsuit against the Church that seemed like it was going very well. The Church might easily have lost the case but that doesn’t mean they would have paid any compensation awarded to the Rathbuns in any kind of a speedy fashion. Look how long it took them to settle with Wollersheim? Marty would have known that. So I guess it’s possible he would have gone along with an out of court settlement that required him to dead agent himself.
He was involved in an advisory role with Debbie Cook at the time she also could have caused a lot of damage to the Church with their own lawsuit against her for violating an NDA. I daresay he was involved in many such cases over the years from his prior position in the Church. So he knows how that kind of stuff is played and what the moves are.
It seems to me he has either sold out in a very underhand fashion regarding his friends or he is just bat shit crazy. Either way doesn’t bode well for his future happiness.
I don’t agree with your conclusions, but I do agree that he is deliberately “dead agenting” himself with a lot of people. It seems like he is “burning his bridges”, is how I’ve thought of it. Beyond that I have no ideas. Not enough information.
Fair enough. The only thing I’m really sure about is he’s done a perfectly competent job of dead agenting himself.
Such a good job, in fact, that it’s been no effort at all to refute PT Marty with “past tense” Marty with his own direct public statements and previous sworn testimony!
Marty is neither stupid or crazy, so to engage in such utter destruction of his own credibility would require some powerful incentive. The only ones that I can think of that would fill the bill there either involve threats and blackmail or a big secret cash-out.
Since he doesn’t display the cowed, nervous, fearful “hostage” demeanor of the other folks who were recruited to make earlier hate/smear videos about Leah, I’m thinking that it’s the latter scenario which is in effect here.
It makes me feel bad when I see the video of Mike and Marty by the water fishing, talking and laughing together, to come to this it’s only going to get worse once the second season of AFTERMATH comes out.
Leah and Mike are like a freight train with no brakes coming down hill heading straight towards the truth and are trying to help people, I just hope the payoff and his conscience can take it ,
I have a hard time with Rathbun’s 3rd partying, generalized accusations, lies and half truths “in all his videos do far! Marty is not a really stupid man, or so I thought. He knows that he is preaching to mostly ex Scientologists who all can spot what he is doing. He is using black tech, for the lack of a better word for it. He must want people to know that he is being suppressive. So he is intentionally dead agenting himself publicly, on purpose. There is no other logical explanation. (or maybe big payday is involved for his doing this….and I can only guess who is the paymaster) His videos are so wrong in every way that I can’t watch them anymore The videos are parroting the church’s accusations lately and that cannot be a coincidence either.. This is all very sad!
Its all intended for the sheeple. So they have another reason not to watch, or if they did, how to spin it.
Long strange trip for Rathbun. And it ain’t over.
His vids are being promted with paid ads on YouTube. To me this is definitive proof he’s sold out to CSI.
Now THAT is interesting raindog308.
And OSA Trollers are pimping the Rathbun video’s on Entertainment Weekly article on Leah Remeni this week. Proving they are made by the Cherch.
Mike,
Let me preface this by saying that I don’t usually make quick judgements based on partial information or really no inside information at all 🙂 and then ya know butting in and saying ‘WELL *I* think you need to me doing this and this and this and THIS’ He is your friend..Or, well, you said you two had lost touch for awhile so let me say..Shit sorry I haven’t had my coffee yet I’m sure I sound like a total wacko. OKAY, I’m just going to get to the point instead of trying to impress people with my super awesome and thoughtful comment : Homeboy is losing it and I’m sure you are a little hurt and a lot pissed but maybe you should attempt to reach out to him. Or reach out to his wife ? I mean you officiated at his wedding ! (Well, it looked like it in clips from Going Clear..I think that’s where I saw it..) I mean maybe he REALLY needs help. Maybe Monique needs help helping him. Maybe you should go there. He saved you once when you had no one and nothing to turn to..Something is up… At first I thought well maybe the Non-Scientology world is getting to him. He was considered a very powerful, successful and popular Scientologist I mean wasn’t he like Number 2 of ALL of Scientology ? He was David Miscavige’s big Number 2. He was really…He was SOMEBODY. He was respected..And now, well, he’s just like the rest of us. Maybe he feels like he ‘peaked’..Which is a shame because he is very blessed that he is getting another chance. His wife and his son, that’s what it’s really all about… But maybe he is tired of struggling to provide his family with a certain lifestyle and he just really, really misses ‘Being Somebody’ and he needs help to see that he IS Somebody. Okay so that’s what I thought at first (I subscribed to his blog to and there were no posts for MONTHS and then these little videos started coming out where yeah he’s basically just talking shit about EVERYONE) But now, you’re right..He’s really losing his shit…He needs help. And I say that as kindly and respectfully as possible. Maybe someone should attempt to reach out and talk to him… If it hasn’t been attempted already. Just an outsiders respectful opinion 😀
Also, on a completely unrelated note David Miscavige is clearly a closeted latent homosexual who beat the shit out of you so much because he was angry at you the most. Irrationally angry at you..That story about him calling you down some hill to his office and phoning Marty to go there just to watch. Then he comes flying out of his office or something wearing only a bathrobe then proceeds to shove your face into a tree trunk..Hrm..Now what could DM have possibly been doing in a bathrobe that would feel him with rage and shame afterwards ??? He is so SO clearly gay as shit and irrationally angry and abusive towards you because, well, I think you know where I’m going with this.
Wow you are SO not going to approve this comment to be posted lol. Huge fan, by the way of you AND Leah. I think what y’all are doing is VERY brave and amazing. It broke my heart when you broke down sobbing, you and Tom DeVocht out of guilt for enforcing disconnection. But you have all found true redemption..and you are good people..With a shitload of integrity ! 🙂
Chelsea
@chelsea, I have a dear friend, A, who had someone she considered her best friend, K, suddenly begin attacking her, gossiping about her, badmouthing her, claiming she had committed all sorts of crimes against a mutual friend, R. K spent 2 entire years blaring falsehoods about A. During that time, A repeatedly reached out to K both in private and in public asking her to talk and K’s response was always “I need time to process it”.
Now, two years down the line when the friendship is damaged beyond repair and R is in prison for the crimes she has committed K is going to people saying “why didn’t anyone tell me?” The response is unanimously “because you wouldn’t listen”. In order to talk to someone, they have to shut their yap.
That being said, with all due respect, your comment certainly assumes a lot and sweeps a shitload of history under the rug.
I don’t think that just because we haven’t seen it, we should assume Mike hasn’t tried reaching out. And if he hasn’t, he probably knows something we don’t and therefore has a VERY good reason. I think by now we know where Mike’s heart is, and it’s in the right place 🙂
I have “tried” to post to his site. At first they were simply deleted. Now they say “awaiting moderation” & they just hang out there. Never posted. Others have posted that their comments never see the light of day.
Of course he states that all msg traffic between he & Leah was deleted, as she asked him to, after he refused to be producer of Aftermath. Leah “disconnected” from him. LOL
He has his pets. If you don’t say Marty you are a brilliant philosopher and a boon to mankind, it seems as though your comment is unworthy. I don’t even go to his site because I don’t want my IP address captured.
His blog moderators are likely OSA now. I’m guessing Gavino Itta, etc.
Many people followed other philosophical and spiritual paths after scn and spoke about them on Marty’s blog in years past. I would occasionally go back and read topics and the following comments and found them to remain fresh and interesting. I would be saddened if his whole earlier blog is gone forever.
His blog was down earlier this morning but now it’s back up.
Scientology forgot to pay the bill for web service . But it is all good now.
Typical FP screwup – somebody probably put the web hosting bill in with the toilet paper requisition.
I wonder what the annual cost is to maintain a website. Marty’s blog would probably be rather encyclopedic and someone would want to get paid for “storing” it.
Also, I’m thinking it would not really benefit the CoS to have the site pulled down since probably most everything on Marty’s site is available elsewhere on the web or in books or movies and so on.
Marty might also do what Alanzo appears to have done in deleting his site and decide “screw the whole freaking business” and pull the site down on his own.
Marty seems to work very hard at making people not like him. That is one thing I think he’s professional at.
Those who have been injured, emotionally or intellectually damaged, or financially ruined by L. Ron Hubbard, David Miscavige or Scientology are the great heroes of the anti-Scientology movement. These people deserve attention and just compensation. If I had the power, I would dissolve this false religion, liquidate the substantial funds and distribute them in proportion to the pain suffered.
Marty Rathbun’s blog has evolved since 2008 from a home for expelled members to a point of view which
now seems to be unacceptable. It is unfortunate that his criticism is deep and personal to so many. Marty and I bumped heads for a few years on the original Hugh Urban OT VIII material before Tony Ortega picked it up on his blog. Marty has often taken the conservative position on many issues. He has also mentioned many times that his criticism of Scientology is free and from the heart.
I find his blog posts very interesting because he is expressing his viewpoint from his heart. This is the way I experienced him when we clashed. He needs to get out these strange thoughts which seem out of sequence and besides the main point. But he always recovers and I pray that will be the case in this situation. In 2008, Marty ran some posts on the economic situation. This is one of his pet areas. So now Scientology waits in the wings with all of that money, all of those ideal orgs, thousands upon thousands of beds and beans to house and feed the next cycle of those rejected by capitalism. I was one of those in 1970 and it may happen again.
….” I would dissolve this false religion, liquidate the substantial funds and distribute them in proportion to the pain suffered…” 1000% agree with the above statement. Let the Indies do their thing and keep their collective noses clean as long as all traces of Hubbards sadistic navy are “hammered out of existence”
My circumstance was featured in the Truth Rundown series of articles on this exact topic, “disconnection”.
The excruciating, heart-wrenching pain both Annie Logan and myself experienced was as real as any of the people you have interviewed on your show.
Yet, as poignant as the story is, I have never been approached in any fashion by you or any other of the personnel of your reality tv program.
I’ve published articles on the subject of disconnection being thoroughly familiar with the entire body of materials in Scientology covering it.
Since I was married to L. Ron Hubbard’s personal assistant, she being there with him for nearly 20 years, and experienced a completely destructive “disconnection” enforced by David Miscavige, featured in the Tampa Bay Times, referenced in Lawrence Wright’s Going Clear and as such deemed “newsworthy” by those “news people”, I would think it would be very much apropos to your stated aim to “do something about it” re disconnection, or DM, or the policies of Scientology, to interview me and maybe even air the interview to get my experience with and in Scientology as to the subject of disconnection.
I’m a Scientologist, still. Still declared SP by Dave, still experiencing “enforced disconnection” yet a practicing Scientologist nonetheless. I’d like to help sort out the whole mess relating to “SP declares”, “disconnection”, the exact policies and bulletins related to it and how they are to be applied and do something effective about the enormous destruction wrought by abuse of the subject.
Jim, have you read the posts where Mike gives an email address for people like you to contact them? There have been several. Mike has posted dozens of times about what to do if you want your be on the show. It’s my guess they have lots more people contacting them than available time but that’s purely speculation.
I don’t think there is a lack of subject matter, I bet there are lots of people contacting them, I may be wrong, but if you really want to be on the show, it’s may already too late to make the cut for season 2 but I would suggest reading his aftermath posts and reaching out to them, and maybe they can get you on season 3 if there is one.
It’s not: I “really want to be on the show”, Valerie. I have a unique experience (responding to Eileen, but I am “anyone” as well) that is in the context of not only this blog’s response to Mark Rathbun’s blog, but includes the history of the articles in the Tampa Bay Times, Lawrence Wright’s New Yorker article and his subsequent book as well as my connection to both Mark Rathbun and Mike Rinder, let alone David Miscavige.
I also have studied the entire “book”, all written or spoken published materials including every policy, bulletin and tape. I use Scientology.
I am also one who has experienced enforced disconnection and can speak with a background in the controversy that is well qualified and I would think would be something of interest to the producers of the show, considering all the context I bring.
That is the point of my posting a comment here. (Responding to Brian, as I don’t intend to argue “Scientology” on this or any blog, but would prefer he stick to the topic I’ve addressed, “enforced disconnection”).
Nice to hear from you Jim. We are not so heavily focused on straight disconnection stories this season, delving into other abuses. But I appreciate you reaching out. I am well aware of the horrendous disconnection you suffered. Thanks for taking the time to post your comment.
And I would like to stick to why you are so against disconnection and yet you ban me from Milestone 2 for asking indies to cull negative doctrines from Scientology.
Your entire blog disconnected from me for asking a sane question.
Why aren’t you interested in dumping negative and harmful doctrines from your religion.
And why should anyone trust you if you label those who ask sane questions a merchant of chaos.
My question still stands Jim.
Are there any doctrines written by L Ron Hubbard that are anti social in nature?
Simple question.
Your story is powerful, but in some ways harder to relate to, since LRH is directly present. The stories covered in Aftermath seem (to me) to have the strength of showing how these events can happen to anyone. That is what makes them relatable to the general public.
Jim, I hope you write a book and include in depth the stories Annie relayed to you, or confirmed when you asked her of those stories. Annie’s history needs someone telling it, and you Jim I hope you do get her history recollections of Hubbard, into a book or two! Chuck Beatty
We all felt your story Jim. I was on Marty’s blog during that time. It was yet another Scientology horror story. You asked for my email address as we talked to each other on Marty’s site. We emailed back and forth and shared music experiences. We were friendly to each other. I thought you were a free thinker.
Then things split up and you went to Milestone 2.
I thought you guys were open and interested in new views.
I asked this one question on the post caller “idee fixe and I was banned from your Milestone 2
https://milestonetwo.wordpress.com/2014/07/02/idee-fixe/#comment-1960
I said that Ron’s policies must be looked at and purged from Scientology.
I was attacked by all of you on Milestone 2 and banned from posting.
Maybe that’s why Mike has not gotten in touch with you. You guys trash Rinder and all of the critics. All you want to do is promote Scientology. You have no purpose to uncover the lies and insanity in the mind of Hubbard.
There are only 2 sites that now squash dissent now. Milestone 2 and Marty’s.
Mike allows you, Marildi and many others.
I have posted about 6 times on Marty’s. They don’t post.
So who is the propagandist trying to manipulate public perception:
1. someone who allows all dissent; Mike?
2. Marty and Milestone 2 who allow no dissent;You and Lana.
I would not choose you for a doc on the harms of Scientology because you really do not care about anything except promoting Hubbard.
I have followed your blog and I know of what I speak.
If you cannot fathom that it’s L Ron Hubbard’s policy that is at the root of this then I am glad you weren’t asked to be on Aftermath.
You’d use it to help promote Scientology. Help clear the name of Hubbard.
That you are even posting here now is suspect.
You do not care about uncovering Scientology crimes. You are a Scientologist and would use the platform to disseminate.
Why would Mike and Leah be that stupid? They are not.
+1
Hey Brian, regarding your comment about Jim Logan’s post here, I had a VERY similar experience with MS2 like 2 years ago. Around that time, I was undergoing a very heavy confusion about this whole Scn subject, DM, and LRH. I’ve always been a free thinker who thinks outside the box and who deslike being forced to follow “authorities”; a trait that functions as a FAST PASS out of the MS2 blog.
Like you, I was banned from participating in the MS2 blog due to my well known tendency to think by myself and speak my viewpoints about ANYTHING, loud and clear regardless of anyone’s opinion. At that time when I was banned, I still considered myself a Scientologist and wasn’t critical of neither Scn nor LRH, but I no longer considered LRH an “all-knowing” infallible being, but only a human being who can make – and who HAD made – errors in judgment.
I was banned (but of course that he or Lana will tell another story of how I was behaving “below 2.0 on the tone scale” on my comments) because I was DIFFERENT. Because I didn’t robotically follow the “group-think”, but had my OWN opinion about things and my OWN way of interpreting past events in Scn.
For example, I considered that what LRH did to David Mayo was an abuse of power. I had METICULOUSLY examined all the HCOBs in which Mayo had allegedly altered the tech (like saying that “Clear” wasn’t an absolute), and I couldn’t find ANY that amounted to anything. In fact, in a SHBC lecture, LRH HIMSELF had inferred this lack of absoluteness regarding the state of Clear. But when Mayo inferred the same, LRH took it like this incredible insult to the point of ordering Mayo to the “Running Rundown” to allegedly get him out of the “Suppressive valence”
In my post at MS2 regarding the above, I commented that DM had third partied LRH about Mayo, and that LRH had acted unjustly and out of proportion. This was enough to make Lana go berserk on me which resulted (among other reasons like publicly questioning and challenging the almighty class XII Pierre Ethier) in my exile from the blog.
I witnessed LOTs of occasions in which Lana savagely attacked and moderated those who said anything bad about Scn or LRH, even if it was the most gentle put common sense criticism. It was truly abusive. Regretfully, I had done THE SAME myself to others in the blog, but I was already waking up from my Scn induced hypnotic trance.
Jim and Lana are WELL KNOWN for their criticism of Rinder and Marty. I can include all the links to prove it, should anyone be interested, including Jim. Of course, they are entitled to their opinion, and I fully support the Freedom of Speech, Freedom of Thought rights. I have ALSO criticized them in lots of occasions.
Like Jim, I had METICULOUSLY studied practically anything from LRH. All policies, all HCOBs, and chronologicaly so. I KNOWN the history of the development of Scn, the where(s) and how(s). I can’t be fooled by that silly idea of Jim that “Disconnection” as practiced by the CofS has its origins in DM’s alleged “twist” and “alteration” of LRH’s policies. But I am pretty sure that Logan will decline any friendly debate with me regarding that, because he “doesn’t discuss Scn in this or any other blog”. How convenient of him!
Now he is winning about why his story hasn’t been considered in Leah’s program when the reason should be VERY obvious to him : Because you will ONLY try to defend Scn and LRH making it look as if LRH had nothing to do with all the abuses when it should be OBVIOUS to you that he HAD.With all your erudition, you are blind as a bat, Jim. And of all the disconnection stories, yours in one of the ones that brings tears to my eyes every time I listen to it again. What you and your ex wife went through is just unspeakable. Is is just unthinkable. I can only wish the best for you and pray that you can find comfort about that painful event. I HONESTLY do.
We have diametrically opposed views on LRH and Scn, but I have always thought that you are a good man.
Jim is a good person. I agree. He’s just not ready yet to look a Ron without the rosey glasses. As the decades move on maybe he will.
Maybe not.
Brian, it is not true that “Mike allows all dissent”. Its his blog and he moderates out whatever comments he doesn’t like.
The majority of comments I delete are the ones that are abusive towards others or are political, not those that are critical of me.
iamatroll, more of my comments have been stopped than someone like marildi. I just don’t squeal like a stuck pig when it happens….
Which is CONTRARY to your assertion that I control this blog and dictate to Mr. Rinder what can and cannot be posted.
Yes, I read your lies spouted over on Marty’s spin bin channel.
Wynski – as you know I have trashed a lot of your comments, mostly due to how you express yourself. I want to acknowledge you for never having bitched or sent me emails or messaged me on FB or complained on other blogs… I know from how you write you are no shrinking violet, but some of the people who sound tough quickly melt when things don’t go exactly their way.
Thank Mike. This is your blog, not mine. If I thought I could do better, I would put up. 🙂
Over time, you’ve expressed yourself as an intelligent Dude Mike Wynski, with you’re own mind and opinion on things. I never liked your “personal attack mode” you launched on others not so well informed or just beginning to wake up to the scam of Scientology. Life’s a mixed bag but you’ve stuck around, so I lost my own bet. I myself have been appreciative of the ‘deprogramming’ this site is accomplishing, I’ve come full circle on a lot of my original opinions created for, by and of Scientology. I wouldn’t call you a friend but since you’ve toned down a bit on your snarly approach to some people (with Mike’s help) I think I can see we are pretty much on the same page with the corruption of organised Scientology and how Hubbard just got worse and worse as his organization formed a despotic life of its own, it was definitely allowed to develop and flourish in that manner.
Thanks I Yawn. My goal is to stop people from being hurt by the cult and its harmful teachings.
Hubbard, like most mentally ill people DID get worse as time went by as he didn’t receive proper treatment. Definitely a downhill slide.
Well, hopefully we are close to the “end”. Thank you for helping too.
Wynski, my dear man, I’m pretty sure IYA has seen the same side of you I’ve expressed seeing you demonstrate on more than one occasion. I’ve absolutely seen you lay it on the line when something needed to be said. You’re no different than many of the posters here, including me. The other side we see less often, I feel due to the subject matter,. You were one of the very first to express concern and sympathize when my family was facing a health crisis. I also see you support many here who’ve successfully managed to get away from the malignancy of scientology. So a very good man resides in your skin. I do hope you’re comfortable with him. Well done!
What a very nice post!
Thank you Barbara for your kind thoughts.
As I get older I get more comfortable with myself. And the more I grow concerned about others being harmed in the name of good. I guess it is part of being Pisces. 🙂
“I guess it is part of being Pisces.”
You are “Pisces”, Wynski? I wonder what’s is your rising sign and at what sign and house is your natal Mars to be found? 😉
Hi Thetaclear. I Googled rising & natal and found a website that figures it out.
It says, Rising Scorpio, Moon in Virgo, Mars in Virgo, Mercury in Aries, Venus in Pisces
I have zero idea what all that means.
“Hi Thetaclear. I Googled rising & natal and found a website that figures it out.”
Hi Wynski; I hope that you had remembered your exact time of birth, otherwise the Ascendant (the “Rising sign”) and the Moon sign might be wrong. But I feel that you must have gotten that time of birth right because the information more or less describes what I have seen about you so far.
“It says, Rising Scorpio, Moon in Virgo, Mars in Virgo, Mercury in Aries, Venus in Pisces”
“I have zero idea what all that means.”
That’s ok; I am an amateur astrologer myself who is currently investigating this area of knowledge to see if there is any usefulness to it or not. But I still have a loooong way to go, so don’t take my explanations as expert advice, but only as something to be perhaps, amused about, 🙂
I am assuming by your previous post that your Sun sign is Pisces, right? So I will base my explanations on that. And this will be a long reply because there is no way to make it shorter. 🙂
Even though that I have been intensely studying astrology for quite some time now, and that I’ve been able to establish (at least for myself and for several friends) some usefulness and truth to it, I ALWAYS feel ridiculous talking about it because, let’s face it, there is absolutely NO scientific explanation for it in no way, shape or form. How in the name of God can a planet (or planets configurations) affect and/or describe the personality of others, is not an analysis that a scientifically trained mind like mine can understand or even accept. Yet, I find myself unable to deny the accuracy with which astrology has so completely explained my own personality and that of many friends.
Astrology is perhaps one of the most misunderstood subjects there is, and one who has been used by the misguided, unscrupulous, and charlatans to earn a few bucks, which has resulted in a very bad PR for what actually is a very useful subject – if properly understood and used by smart people.
Astrology isn’t really about “fortune telling”, nor it is about fatalism or about written-in-stone fate. It certainly isn’t about telling the “future movie of our lives” as it will allegedly unfold as part of a predetermined destiny. It isn’t about the silly horoscopes that you see in the newspapers, most of which applies to the WHOLE population when you read EACH sign. NONE of that is REAL astrology.
Astrology is about SELF KNOWLEDGE. It is a method of understaning ourselves; our fears, our weaknesses, our blind spots, our abilities, potentials and good traits. It is also about possibilities and probabilities but framed under the heading of “Free Will”. That’s ALL astrology is about. And With it, the amount of time that it can take anyone to really know/understand himself/herself, is enormouly reduced. With it, we can be able to recognize repetitive patterns of behavior with which we are self-sabotaging our lives, and thus be able to change them for the better. With it, we can be able to recognize the future possibilities and probabilities of an event so as to take the necessary measures to avoid the wrong attitudes that would bring forth bad consequences.
Astrology is more of a psychological subject than a “fortune telling” one. What decades in Scn wasn’t able to do, I was able to do with astrology in a matter of months!
With that rather long and detailed introduction, I will proceed now to analyze the output you got out of that website.
The “Rising sign” or “Ascendant”, as it is usually called, refers to the astrological sign (Virgo, Pisces, Taurus, etc) that was “rising” on the eastern horizon the moment that you were born. It is how you present yourself to the world; the way that others view you on a first impression basis. The way that you handle or “attack” (meet) life. But it is not necessarily how you are (or act) on an intimate level as with close friends and family. What you really are most intimately and what you seek is determined by your Sun sign; which is basically what people know about astrology. “I am Virgo” refers to, “The Sun was passing by the sky area (a constellation in the past) called ‘Virgo’ when I was born”.
As with the Sun, other astronomical bodies (Mars, Mercury, the Moon, etc) were passing by different areas (astrological signs) at the time you were born. So one person can have his Sun at Virgo, his Moon at Pisces, and his Ascendant (Rising sign) at Aries. That’s me.
Different combinations means different personalities. Thus, there are no two Virgos that are alike. A Virgo with an Aries Ascendant is different than a Virgo with a Pisces Ascendant. And if two people have both their Sun signs and their Ascendants on the same astrological sign, they can STILL have their Moon sign in different ones. And even if they would have all the 3 in the same sign, the positions where the other planets were at their respective time of birth might be different as well as the “Aspects” that such planets make with others. “Aspects” refer to the angle (based on a 360° circular natal chart) that one astronomical body make in relation to another. The natal chart is divided in 30° angles, for a total of 12 divisions. The “Aspects” are classified in “hard (or difficult) aspects”, and “good (or harmonious) aspects”.
Two planets (or luminaries – Sun and the Moon) forming an angle of 90° is said to “square each other” which means a conflicting and stressful relationship. Two planets making an angle of 30° or 60° are said to be “Trine or Sextile” respectively, to each other”, which mean an easy, harmonious configuration. Two planets making an angle of 180° are said to “oppose each other”, which means a tense, conflicting relationship. Two planets making a zero angle between them because they are located in the same exact zone are said to be “in conjunction” to each other, which can mean an harmonious relationship or a challenging one depending on the planets in question.
We all have VERY unique natal charts that have different Aspects and planetary configurations. There is also the subject of “Houses” which are “areas of operation” (12 in total) represented in this wheel of the natal chart. Each house represent an specific area of life such as finance and money/possessions related manners, home activities and attitudes, communication, intimate relationships, career, work, faith and philosophy, mysticism, etc.
A planet represent a specific psychological function. The sign represent the manner or style in which we carry out those functions, and the house represent the area of life in which that function is manifested or expressed. So we have a planet, a sign, and a house combined together to form a specific meaning and manifestation of behavior. But that planet making a specific angle (“Aspect”) to another planet, “affect” and/or modify the effect that such planet (in its particular sign and house) have on us. You can see by that that a natal chart is formed by DOZENS of different and unique configurations, which is why each one of us have very unique natal charts representing very unique personalities. That’s why knowing the EXACT time of birth is so important for an accurate natal chart reading and interpretation.
$It says, Rising Scorpio, Moon in Virgo, Mars in Virgo, Mercury in Aries, Venus in Pisces”
With Scorpio rising you have a person who knows no “middle grounds”, haha. Check this :
“Scorpio Ascendant people have a lot of presence. There is something about them that tells the world that they are not to be pushed around. Their manner commands respect, and in some cases, fear. Scorpio rising people can be quiet or loud, but they always seem powerful and determined.”
“You either love or hate Scorpio rising people –they are rarely people who go through life unnoticed. In fact, some of them are confused when faced with the fact that they get such strong reactions from others. They seem to look right through people, seeing through superficiality.”
“You know intuitively where another’s pain or weakness lies, and can thus be a natural healer – or a terrible enemy, if your energies are directed toward conflict.” (ring a bell? Haha)
In your specific case this applies :
“Scorpio Rising and Mars in Virgo : Your Mars is in Virgo, suggesting service through specialized skills, knowledge, or technical expertise; also an interest in biology, chemistry, the medical or health sciences. You have keen powers of observation and analysis, and you work thoroughly and efficiently (some might say obsessively). When out of balance you can worry excessively and be a bitter critic of the world and/or yourself.”
What you must watch for with an Scorpio Rising is a strong tendency to hold on to grudges and feeling vengeful. You must learn to let go. Your Sun at Pisces means that you are an individual inclined towards compassion, forgiveness and help. But this is in opposition with your Scorpio Ascendant. I bet you that if you look for your natal astrological aspects online, you will probably find one that says, “Moon in opposition to Ascendant”, showing this inner conflict. Others might frequently see you as hostile and inclined towards criticism. That’s your Scorpio Ascendant. That’s how others see you as a first impression. That’s how you show yourself to the world. But what you REALLY are, is an individual inclined towards help and compassion, with a strong interest towards mysticism. But that is in conflict with your analytical and practical Virgo traits. So you need physical/tangible evidence to feel at ease.
Now the Moon in astrology represents your emotional self. It is what others see in you once they get to know you better and more intimately. It is how you emotional react to others on a very personal level :
“Your Moon Sign describes your instinctive and emotional nature. Whilst your Sun Sign describes qualities you are learning to develop and become, your Moon describes who you already are.”
With the Moon in Virgo you :
“With the Moon in the practical and systematic sign of Virgo, you are likely to be someone who is highly appreciative of structure, organization and detail. You will find your life works better with well-established systems in your personal and professional life. Virgo is an Earth sign, and so pertains to tangible or physical things. It is also known as a Mutable sign, which infers a need for variety and change. When practicality and change are brought together, the principle of refinement is found. Born with the Moon in Virgo, you are likely to have an innate need to improve or refine the circumstances around you – combining practical know-how with the analytical quality necessary to achieve specific results.”
“Virgo is a sign of service. You are likely to find you have an innate need to nurture yourself and others through offering practical service in everyday ways. Virgo is also a sign of humility. You may be quite happy working behind the scenes, adding your considerable talent for organization to whatever you are involved in and happy to be of service, often asking nothing in return. The satisfaction of a job well-conceived, well-planned and well-done often provides the result you need. You should take care, however, not to allow this natural instinct for service to be manipulated, or taken advantage of by others.”
You must watch for this :
“Because of your strong analytical ability, you may need to make sure that you watch your tendency to be overly critical, finding fault with yourself and others rather than working toward improving whatever situation you are in. Your capacity for analysis is great for problem-solving, but can also be your downfall. You are likely to be highly adaptable, but also prone to excessive worry.”
And also you must watch for this :
“Often, those with the Moon here can be quietly critical of self and others. Your tendency to criticize your own efforts may make it difficult for you to see your own true worth. You may underestimate your contributions and be innately convinced that whatever you do, it is not good enough.”
With your Moon at Virgo you find pleasure and emotional connections by being of service and useful to others. This trait is in harmony with your Piscean Sun. Both Pisces and Virgo are kind and compassionate and inclined towards servicing others. But Virgo is practical and methodical, and Pisces is emotional, deamer-like, and like to “live in the moment” frequently not grounded in reality. But Virgo is grounded in reality, and like to carefully organize and plan things. So perhaps you feel that tension and conflict between your Moon at Virgo and your Sun at Pisces. Perhaps you are a combination of being very emotional but at the same time very practical and analytical.
Now the planet Mars represent what drives us into action. The house where our Natal Mars is located indicates the area of life where we usually are more active and energetic. Mars also has to do with the way in which we express our anger. Because one of the downfalls of Virgo is his tendency to criticize and analyze things in every detail, Mars is this sign can make a person overly critical. But he might actually be just trying to help others see the truth about something. But other people might not see it that way. They see it as an atack. So you may want to use another strategy to get to others. Like the analytical and science-trained traits of your Virgo Moon to explain why something is wrong or false by showing evidence and by clever arguments, coupled with the compassion and understanding of your Piscean Sun. You are a very clever and smart individual. Just watch for those downfalls traits of your Scorpio Ascendant which might blind your judgement due to old grudges and a tendency to strike back. 😉
Here is Mars at Virgo :
“These productive and busy people are goal-oriented, practical people. Although they can be a little scattered at times, simply because they are doing so many things at any give time, Mars in Virgo natives get things donequite well! They have a knack for handling a wide variety of tasks at once, and a tendency to take on perhaps too much at the same time.”
“Most Mars in Virgo natives are not particularly aggressive by nature. Although they can be a little hard-nosed and critical at times, they rarely resort to pushing others around. Still, an annoyed Mars in Virgo native can be difficult to be around! Arouse their anger and they turn into complaining, over-critical nags. Generally, these natives don’t make themselves nuisances, so this stage is unlikely to last for very long. It is a sensitive position, however. It doesn’t take much to make these people nervous.”
And because this post/reply is already toooooooooooo loooooongg, haha, I will explain “Mercury” and “Venus” tomorrow on another reply to you.
I hope that at least I had amused you, even if you find all this quite silly and too mystical for you, haha. Take care!
Thanks Theataclear. Yes, I know my birth time to the minute. And my sun sign is Pisces.
That was scary accurate. Almost like it was written by someone who grew up with me until this point in my life.
“Thanks Theataclear.”
You are most welcome, Wynski; you can call me Peter if you want to.
“Yes, I know my birth time to the minute. And my sun sign is Pisces.”
Good, thank you.
“That was scary accurate. Almost like it was written by someone who grew up with me until this point in my life.”
Well, I am glad that you found it interesting. What you basically gave me is perhaps, no more than 1/15th or 1/20th of the totality that a natal chart is. We didn’t have for example, the astrological sign for Saturn and Jupiter, two KEY planets of a natal chart; the first representing the area of your life where you might have experienced more difficulties and troubles, and also the area where more self-discipline was needed to be exerted. The other (Jupiter) representing the area of your life where “luck” and “expansion” is manifested the most. We also didn’t have the “Houses” where your natal planets are placed to understand where their psychological functions are being manifested.
We are also missing the signs and houses of Pluto, Uranus and Neptune. The sign of these planets mostly shows generational tendencies or attitudes as these outer rim planets stay for many years at a particular astrological sign; but the houses in which they are placed in our natal charts, DO have individualized and personal meanings. Pluto, for example, shows the area of your life where the losses and pains in your life have manifested the most. It also shows the area of your life where more transformations have occurred.
Then we have the matter of the “astrological Aspects” which means the specific angles that the planets in your natal chart make with the others. Depending on those angles, planets are in harmonious relationships with others, meaning that the psychological functions of each one of them complement one another; or in conflicting or disharmonious relationships, meaning that those psychological functions oppose each other.
For example your Moon at Virgo forming an angle of 180° (opposition; a disharmonious relationship) to your Sun in Pisces. Pisces doesn’t care about structure, organization, and planning. They like to “smell the roses, and live comfortably in the moment”, haha. But Virgo likes to have a totally planned life, and he cares about details. Pisces shows compassion, empathy and understanding. Virgo is also compassionate and like to be of service to others, but he can also become critical and impatient with other’s flaws. Virgo can’t possibly understand how it is that Pisces can feel comfortable living a so disorganized life, especially related to work and finance. Pisces don’t understand why on hell Virgo can’t seem to just relax and enjoy the present moment. These are clearly behaviors and attitudes that conflict each other, though it can be learned to achieve a balance between the two. That’s what astrological counseling is for.
So Aspects are a KEY element to analyze in a natal chart, and there are perhaps, more than 40-50 different Aspects in a natal chart if we also consider the “minor Aspects”.
Then we have what is called “Evolutionary Astrology” which is a field that deals with the karmic issues which we must confront in this existence in order to evolve as beings. Karma in Evolutionary Astrology doesn’t necessarily have a negative connotation. “Karma” refers to the lessons that we are supposed to learn to evolve as beings. These lessons are reflected in the natal chart by analyzing the sign and house position of something called “The Lunar Nodes” or the point of intersection between the ecliptic of the Earth with that of the Moon. There is a “South Node” representing the lessons to be learned; our past existences’ unresolved issues, and the “North Node” representing the most correct path to follow this lifetime in order to learn those lessons and evolve as beings. If we are applying our North Node’s lessons, then life seems interesting and fulfilling. If we are dramatizing our past existences’ unresolved issues represented by our “South Node”, then life seems sort of “unlucky”, uninteresting, full of barriers, and as a constant struggle.
So you can see that I hadn’t even started analyzing your natal chart. Not by a long ways. The more details I have about a specific natal chart, the more accuracy there is in analyzing the personality and probable courses of actions that a person can take when meeting situations in life. To just say that this subject is fascinating, is an understatement, haha.
And now to finish analyzing the two items (Mercury in Aries, and Venus in Pisces) that I didn’t analyze in my previous reply, let’s take, “Mercury in Aries”.
Mercury’s psychological functions is communication and thinking. Planets represent “verbs” (actions); signs represent “attitudes” or “styles of behavior”. Mercury has to do with the specific ways (methods) that we handle our communications with others. It also has to do with our methods of thinking, of reasoning things out; how do we study, that kind of things. Here are some “Cookbook interpretations” for lack of having the natal chart at hand (the parts within quotation marks are from astrology texts, the parts that are not, are my own explanations. The comments within brackets are also my own) :
“Mercury in Aries communicators make quick decisions–so quick that you might think they don’t much like thinking things over. The truth is, Aries communicators don’t have a lot of patience for mulling. Their decisions are often driven by the need for instant gratification.”
The above means that you like to go right down to the point. You don’t like going in circles, nor saying or writing more than it is really needed (like me, for example, with these loooong replies,haha). You become impatient with long dissertations that don’t immediately go to the points that you are interested about. I can only imagine how could you possibly have had the patience to tolerate LRH’s mental diarrhea before ACTUALLY covering the subject that he was supposed to cover in a particular lecture, haha. I bet that the course sups constantly misinterpreted your nervous movements while listening to LRH, for manifestations of “Lack of Mass”, didn’t they? 😉 I bet you were a VERY argumentative student, 😉
“Mercury in Aries men and women are generally quick and to the point in their communications. They are direct and candid, and some may even think their style is crude at times. At times, they can come across as downright aggressive, but that usually happens when they encounter opposition to their opinions and ideas. It is generally a result of frustration, because Mercury in Aries almost childishly assumes that others will accept their opinions smoothly. There is a sensitivity and defensiveness to Aries, and when Mercury is placed in the sign, natives tend to be quite personally attached to their ideas.”
“These people have a tendency towards streamlined learning. They prefer not to get bogged down in details, and are adept at dismissing what they feel are irrelevant details.”
“There’s a certain innocent charm to Aries communicators. Many will appreciate this sign’s utilitarian approach. You can pretty much count on them being straight with you, even if their Sun Sign is the more indirect Pisces.” (like you!)
You can see how it is that your Sun in Pisces is in “tension” or “conflict” with your Mercury in Aries. Pisces wants to be careful not to offend when telling a truth as he doesn’t want to hurt anyone’s feelings. Mercury in Aries doesn’t take that into consideration because he thinks (and quite correctly, I may add) that being blunt and direct is the better way. But they need not to be in conflict at all. One can tell a blunt truth while at the same time being understanding and compassionate to others. The lesson to learn with Mercury in Aries is “PATIENCE”.
“This Mercury position favors starting new things. Aries is not attached to outdated ideas, and generally adopts an enthusiastic style. (That’s why it was easy for you to let go of Scn). Criticism or negative feedback can be taken personally (especially if you have a Scorpio Rising). Still, they are not afraid of a fight or a challenge, on a mental level. They have a visionary intelligence that is sometimes on the idealistic side.”
Mercury in Aries are great debaters, and they love to be challenged to prove how smart they are, which is frequently true. I imagine you being very argumentative and opinionated at school (especially on high school and university), frequently having disagreements with your teachers. Perhaps a few of them thought that you were a little too much snobbish, 😉
“New projects and ideas are taken on with an unmatched enthusiasm with this position of Mercury. However, because there is no shortage of new ideas in life, Mercury in Aries natives can be quick to dump one mental pursuit, way of thinking, or opinion for something fresher and more exciting.”
You may have a tendency to get bored easily, always looking new ways to challenge yourself. Perhaps even creating non existent problems just so that you can feel the thrill of being challenged.
“Mercury in Aries people are often excellent at promoting their new ideas. When they’re excited about something, their style of communication can be so motivating and fun, the enthusiasm is downright infectious. Aries is a leader, quick to adopt absolutely new and innovative methods–they get a rise out of leading too!”
“If the Sun Sign is in Pisces or Taurus, these people can sometimes wonder why others get frustrated with them. The truth is, they may come across as more brusque and impatient than they actually are. Mercury in Aries natives make quick decisions, and they don’t always understand it when others hedge issues or stay ‘on the fence’.”
Ok, Wynski, and now finally to “Venus at Pisces”. I hope that I hadn’t activated your “Mercury in Aries” impatience too much, 🙂 Relax, I will not take too much to finish. My “Mercury is in Virgo” the sign of details; what can you expect? 🙂
Venus’s psychological function is how you seek and interpret beauty/art. It is also how do you relate to others in a personal one-to-one level. It also shows the kind of people you feel drawn to, especially in the romantic sense. It also shows how do you handle romantic manners/issues, how do you treat your romantic partners or close friends.
Venus in Pisces is like a fish in the water; Venus here feels very comfortable.
“There is an attraction to sensitive, compassionate, empathetic and emotionally open people when Venus is in Pisces. A desire to break down the boundaries of awkwardness, emotional distance and judgement is strong with this position. These people want to merge with other people and the world for that matter. They admire people who are emotionally available and authentic. Those who don’t honor feelings or disguise their feelings just to uphold the ideal of correct behavior don’t attract or even interest them. They would rather spend their time with a person who is slightly off kilter and emotionally disturbed than a person who refuses to experience their emotions at all.”
“The Venus in Pisces person knows that no one is truly emotionally balanced and healthy, and if people refuse to accept their own emotional weaknesses, there is no way they are going to accept the Venus in Pisces’ true feelings and emotions. This dynamic will drive these chart holders away. No matter how outlandish or depressing a person’s emotional state is, the Venus in Pisces person will have compassion for them.”
“This compassion is valued above everything else. They are keenly aware of how painful the human condition can be. Because they feel things so deeply themselves, they understand on an emotional level, how much suffering people experience. They are able to empathize and help people work through their suffering by offering themselves completely to other people. An ability to listen to people beyond the words they are using gives the Venus in Pisces person a perspective beyond intellectual understanding. They can feel the pain in other people not just understand it.”
The above can explain your incredible upset with LRH’s methods of thought control and Human Rights abuses.
“This ability to feel beyond words also imbues them with artistic talent, or at least an appreciation of art. They value artistic expression because it is a medium for expressing feelings indirectly without words and intellect. Seeing the world through feelings gives them a great appreciation for all of the arts.”
Perhaps you have a very special affinity for the arts in general, especially for literature, poetry, painting and architecture. Perhaps you have very fine tastes for clothing and like to dress up really nice. You probably like to be in beautiful surroundings and nice decorated spaces.
“The contradiction with these people is that, even though they are extremely accepting and compassionate about the eccentricities and emotional flaws in other people, they are reluctant to burden people with theirs. Although their emotional suffering is evident, they dance around the subject of their pain without using accurate words to describe their feelings or situations. They tend to be vague when talking about themselves. Saying one thing and emotionally expressing another is common with this chart position.”
“They value acceptance and compassion, but they want to deal with their own pain. So they may talk in circles about their situations, expecting you to read between the lines like they are so intuitively able to do. They understand suffering as a natural part of life. They accept it in themselves, and they are willing to get through it on their own. This tendency can get them labeled as martyrs.”
“At times, it can even seem like they enjoy wallowing in pain and that their willingness to sacrifice and suffer is just weakness. They aren’t weak. Accept and empathize with them like they do for you, and you will have a person who truly accepts, loves and understands the real, inner you. They are tender, sweet and value the sensitive nature of the human psyche.”
Of course, all of the above is mostly “cookbook interpretations” of such planetary placements, because not having your natal chart at hand, makes it difficult to see all the elements of it, and being able to integrate them all in a coherent whole. For a coherent and whole interpretation of a natal chart, we need to have all its elements. You only gave me 5 out of probably 50-60 elements. So take my interpretations with much caution.
Ok, now I am done. 🙂
Cool Peter! I think I’ll study this more. The usage of sexagesimal suggests that this subject originated with the Sumerians in the 3rd millennia B.C.
“Cool Peter! I think I’ll study this more. The usage of sexagesimal suggests that this subject originated with the Sumerians in the 3rd millennia B.C.”
Yes, more or less so. At least in the the old Mesopotamia with the Babylonian civilization under Hammurabi, a little after the Summerians. That’s as far back that the records go. But I am sure that the Babylonians were influenced by the Summerians somehow regarding astronomical observations. I am not very much into ancient history, though.
Robert Hand wrote an article about it. He is considered the present authority in the history of astrology, and has translated quite a few of the most ancient astrology writins found. Here is a good link :
https://www.astro.com/people/hand_his_e.htm
What is not commonly known, is that quite a few famous scientists from centuries ago, that have shaped the scientific knowledge were also astrologers or at least were very much into it. Here is a link :
http://www.mountainastrologer.com/standards/editor's%20choice/articles/science_ast.html
Here is a list of what I consider the most professional and down-to-earth astrologers whose books have been very valuable to me :
1. Steven Forrest (a great guy indeed!)
2. Liz Greene
3. The late Howard Sasportas
4. Stephen Arroyo
5. The late Dane Ruthyar (a fucking genius, haha)
6. Marks Jones
7 Jan Spiller
8. Tracy Marks
9. Sue Tompkins
And even if I put him last on my list, one who is considers as one of the best. I just don’t like much his style of communication as a therapist, but he is a great scholar – an historian into astrology :
10. Robert Hand
Those 10 individuals really know their stuff and are REAL astrologers, and not silly “fortune tellers” or “celebrity astrologers” wanting to make a few bucks by impressing others with a few tricks of the trade, 🙂
The wintroll strikes again. LOL. I don’t recall ever posting anywhere that YOU tell Mike what to do and say. Where did that come from? Wishful thinking?
“Poor Mike! I really don’t think he enjoys having these types commenting there (Wynski, ThetaClear & Another guy) , but I suspect he (Mike) doesn’t really have a choice anymore, although it is NOMINALLY his blog” -iamvalkov [Leah Remini and her Troublemakers, Part 5]
One of the symptoms of being crazy is that you cannot remember what you did yesterday…
Wyntroll, I posted what I did about Mike moderating his commenting in response to a couple of commenters who seemed to think Mike let anyone post anything they wanted to, That’s wishful idealization, and not realistic.
Wynski, I am appreciating you more and more as I get to know you through your posts and replies! 🙂
Thanks Eh=Eh. I try to be honest. I admit my “style” is too brusque for most public consumption.
Wynski, don’t sell yourself short. You’ve never been anything but kind and giving to me. I sincerely hope that doesn’t blow your cover. You’re a tough guy when it comes to scientology “smaugs” but in defense and support of your friends and allies your a tireless defender. Take a bow when you deserve one Wynski.
Thank you very much Barbara for those kind words.
When not working on matters of sometimes Nat. security, I spend my spare time taking care of disabled children. It is a welcome switch from the other side of life.
And, weren’t you, Jim, the disseminator who bumped into Paul Haggis way back?
I wish you had the time and inclination to write Jim!
Yes, that is me. I found out some years later, from Paul’s interviews following his “resignation” that he never actually read the book, nor did he apparently ever use the book and its techniques on another individual.
So Jim can you respond to my post?
Is this a thing on…………..testing testing…… tap tap12 12….. hello can you here me?
Jim belongs to Milestone 2 a Scientology website and group that consider 100% of what Ron wrote as gospel truth. Lana is the creator of this site and is Jim’s wife.
A few years ago I asked those on that blog to purge from Scientology those doctrines which harm people.
The outcome of this suggestion was that I was purged and banned from the site. I could not post anymore even though I was cordial in my request. It was a reasonable Request.
With that in mind Jim is in full agreement with all of Hubbard’s writings. He is considered a maven of Scientology doctrines.
I am probably thought as an SP by these folks because of my relentless analysis of Hubbard’s mental state and immorality.
Milestone 2 people still believe in SPs per Hubbard.
This information should be known by on lookers.
Why don’t yoiu do it? That is, purge from Scientology those doctrines which harm people. Its an old saying, “If you want a job done right, do it yourself.” Instead of crying about others not doing at your behest.
Why don’t yoiu do it? That is, purge from Scientology those doctrines which harm people.
I think if you stand back for a minute you will see that this blog and a large majority of the people who post are here specifically to do what they can to accomplish that purpose.
Brian has even written a number of articles that have been published here.
Hey Val, long time no talkie. My contribution has been in ideas. I am fascinated by trouble shooting deception and falsehoods.
I have given much thought to dangerous doctrines. Doctrines based on lies and instruction to commit violence that are in the writings of Ron.
Below are some articles I’ve written. Others tell me they enjoy reading them and have benefited.. And a few still think I’m a Merchant of Chaos.
But I think you know that I have written these. Here is a reminder.
BTW, the essay the GE is A Family Man has been reviewed and reprinted on many other websites. So I guess you can say I am doing something.
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-ge-is-a-family-man/
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/the-responsibility-of-leaders/
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/what-if/
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/how-to-slow-boil-a-frog/
Thanks Brian. I was only aware of the one, about the GE.
Hi Jim Logan,
I remember you from Marty’s blog. If you want to do a You Tube on this subject of disconnection, I have a new camera. Last time you lived in California. I live in Florida. This is not reality TV but you need to get
your story out. I film gratis.
I split my living between Australia and Canada.
OK, I have a studio now south of Tampa. Let me know if you are in Florida.
SP declares and assignment to the RPF are entirely at the whim of Davy Miscavage. You can ‘justify’ anything by citing the ‘advises’ and orders of Lron. All that does is throw an ‘official’ seal of approval on any action you take. Lron’s policies and orders are so contradictory that you can do anything with them. That is as they were intended.
Miscavage is playing Joe Stalin with Marty being Sergi Kirov. Without the murder but with the purges. No one can inhabit any position of authority long enough to have their own power base. That is why Marty and Mike were tossed aside. No one look better than DM.
Many of the Indies believe that only Miscavage is the reason that $cientology is in a downward spiral or is ‘bad’ today. I call bullshit on that. Lron had 35 years to perfect his little scam and he put in all the self reinforcing, brain numbing stuff he could to keep everyone in the fold.
Don’t be a sheeple, think for your self and read Jon Attack and others who know what Lron’s brain washing is. Only you can take the blinders off.
Rathbun left Scientology physically. But did he ever really left mentally?
Does he now want to save Scientology by attacking its critics just like OSA does?
He seems to think that together with Miscavige he can rescue what’s left of Scientology.
If he was an OSA agent he couldn’t have done a better job (depending on from which side you’re looking of course).
Betraying old friends is apparently worth it.
It seems to me he’s betting on the wrong horse.
I pity him.
Marty’s mind was rutted by the experiences of his job career path in the movement. Those ruts he’s just playing out on automatic today. Those ruts might never be normalized.
Rathbun’s Aftermath/Leah videos have 30 times the views of his others. No way to know if it’s because there’s more general interest in Aftermath or if it’s OSA clickers. However, viewers need to be logged into YT in order to up or down vote, and those numbers have been consistently low throughout the series.
Anyway, phooey on him. I haven’t wasted one second of my limited time on earth watching Scientology smear videos, and Rathbun’s are just more of the same. His blog site appears to be down this morning and I’m hopeful that means he’s about to let go of whatever minuscule “celebrity” status he fancies himself as having and fade away for good. I’m weary of all the never-ending speculation and what I’m sure is the ego boost that the attention undoubtedly gives him.
I honestly wish him peace and a life of QUIET contentment. (Or, in less kind words, please just shut the hell up.)
It’s hard (and sad) to no longer recognize the guy I used to play video games with after hours at Int or met in 2009 in Denver with Mike, Steve Hall and Geir Isene.
Marty is claptrap, red herring bullshit.
IT’S ABOUT THE ABUSES ABUSES ABUSES! PERIOD.
Scripted – Not Scripted Paid – Not Paid Newsworthy Old New Blah Blah Blah Who cares? This is all claptrap irrelevant bullshit meant to deflect from the matter at hand – the point of so many for so long – IT’S ABOUT THE ABUSES! Period.
If my story informs and prevents one person today from getting into this church and suffering the same fate and one person ten years from now and one person ten years from that, then I will keep telling it. But my story isn’t just my story; my story represents the pain and suffering of many people who have been harmed by david miscavige or this church or maybe even many people who have been harmed because of a tyrant in their lives. That’s why millions are standing up and cheering Leah’s show and rooting it on. People are sick of bullies and the bad guy getting away with it.
david miscavige, being a sociopath, cannot understand or empathize with the pain and suffering of others, much less, the pain and suffering he created. If he weren’t a sociopath, he would have corrected this pain and suffering a long time ago and if he weren’t a sociopath and were truly interested in this church he leads, he would have stepped down a long time ago.
Your church is dying, david miscavige, and it isn’t dying because of Leah or Mike or their “band of blah blah.” It isn’t dying because of Going Clear or Alex or Lawrence. It’s dying because of you, david miscavige. It’s dying because of your tyranny, your cruelties, your abuses and your inability to understand that pain and suffering are not something people want to sign up for. All the “suppose to’s” and “need to’s” and “expansions” aren’t going to make people want to belong to your religion for a second much less a billion years. And when Leah’s show has run its course, there will be someone else that will be heard screaming about the abuses until you and your church and your sycophants can no longer do harm.
Amen.
Well stated and to the point Mary thank you. It is about the ABUSES plain and simple. What grills me is how Scientologists fall for the lie that they’re “beliefs” are under attack. More lies by Miscavige to simply to cover up the abuses. Scientologists can practice KSW till they turn blue in the face but hurting individuals and families isn’t being tolerated anymore. Game over on that BS and game over for Miscavige. Tick Tock and guess what…. It’s 2017 and now we have an army and the media fully behind us. Marty is a mosquito sideshow I suggest ignore.
Obfuscation. That’s what the church is good at and Marty is another attempts at it. All I gotta say is if Leah’s show is scripted then give us all Emmy’s cuz I’ve never seen anyone else ever ACT as much pain as I saw in those episodes.
I hear Season Two is more hard hitting and I think it’s good to stay on point and not stop for the rapping dog named Marty.
So very well said, Mary! There are more and more folks coming forward to tell their own personal stories of life in the cult – they’re writing books, making films, creating plays, putting up billboards, contacting their elected representatives…on and on, until the cult is no mere!
Leah and Mike are doing a fantastic job as cult dismantlers, but when they’re run is done there’s going to be so many more others who step forward to tell their stories and demand reform. No one is going to stop until the cult stops harming individuals and destroying families, that’s for sure!
Some of us are still manifesting denial, but it’s crystal clear. Marty works for Dave.
That his blog is now down that attacked Miscavage, Tom, etc. for years is just one more thing on the list of what was already entirely obvious.
After all:
1) He handed Scientology lawyers Dani L’s emails.
2) Gold has done a video series with him. Wow, wonder if he went to the base to do it or if the Sets Dept rolled a truck into town with the books, book shelves, etc.
3) He has turned on everyone he previously was assisting. Oops, er. exploiting for a bigger payoff?
4) He fired his lawyers when he was winning his case.
5) He is now countering everything he has previously testified too. Even stuff he said under oath.
Tony, Mike and many upstanding people in this “horrid” ASC community “have not wanted to speculate”.
People are making laughable suggestions that maybe Marty’s kids were threatened or that he snapped due to all the suppressive pressure from “ASC”. I am not going to say those people are naive, but rather too optimistic and kind hearted to see the rather simple obvious truth.
I get it. He went through a lot putting up with being video’ed and having PIs follow him. His family interrupted from normal life. But when he saw Debbie’s settlement, he had a cha-ching moment. Finally with Leah, Mike and Tony thoroughly outshining him in the pressure on Scn… Two things happened: 1) Marty was irrelevant and maybe feeling “small”. His influence had declined and he was becoming a joke even on Scn movies. Maybe he felt it was time to just take some money and step down. 2) It would be hard to envision DM settling with his biggest enemy. But with Marty now now the primary enemy, Dave maybe felt it would be worth it to spend the money he may have had to pay Marty anyways to turn him and use him to go after his other enemies.
Sadly for him though…. Marty’s blog was such a stinker with so little traffic, and Marty’s credibility was so far gone, the joke was on him. Whatever millions he spent are about as wasteful as a Scientology Super Bowl add which everyone except the few thousand intoxicated by the kool aid roll their eyes at.
In closing…. Mark Rathbun has been paid by DM. Listen, I am sure his family is set up for life. Sad to see some former friends baffled and stressing. But I can still feel a shred sympathy forMarty that he still has to lay there feeling dirty and watch DM’s grinning face as he pulls his trousers back on after each encounter.
Bob
Oh my gosh. YOu need to write some books, are you Waldo? My gosh, you need to be interviewed and write some books, please.
Waldo, you could very well be right on the mark. Just as you were forty years ago when commenting on the org craziness going on outside the CS office, you said, “the third dynamic bank is beefing up out there.” How right you were.
Marty has kids? Besides the baby the adopted?
Where’s the “like” button on here. Lol.
I think you’re right, Bob. I saw it in the second or third video and quit watching. I know from my own experiences with him that he is NOT a believer in LRH or Scn anymore. These videos are so obviously part of his deal. The best thing to do is ignore him.
The only thing I would add is that, for Miscavige, the money he spends on modifying Marty’s behavior is inconsequential. The control he has gained is priceless.
LOL—-Scientology –ya ever deal with the finance police–I did and that put a fork in it for me –Philip Everett (aka Mike)
No one who’s actually watched the show would believe any of his bullshit, so I’m guessing this is aimed at scientologists. I’m just surprised the videos aren’t better rehearsed. I’ve watched some of his earlier ones and he’s never needed notes. Maybe he’s having a hard time keeping all the lies from running into each other.
Yeah, it’s rather obvious he’s reading from a script. Probably explains why they’re such short videos – he has to memorize at least some of it to try to make it look ex tempore.
Marty, do yourself a favor, and try, I KNOW IT IS SO HARD, to NOT use the word “narrative”.
It makes you look like a supreme douchebag. And the “troika” crap isn’t earning you any brownie points with the public or DM either, or so I’ve heard.
And the term “Literally.” It could be used as a drinking game.
Haha, I was LITERALLY going to say the same thing!
I’m literally burning up over the use of that word myself.
What a dick head he is!
Mike, your “gentleman’s disagreement” requires no explanation.
Leave the bloodwork to assholes like me. I am your man in the corner forever, unless you pull a Rathbun stunt of betrayal, and then I am your worst enemy.
Yep.
Scientology vs. a nobody like me.
Or whatever…
Argh, I’m sorry, but the gentlemanly conduct of Mike and the rest of the “troika” makes me so angry. These guys and gals have teeth, so please bite! You know you can nail these assholes.
Even Hubbard copied and sold the data
“The criminal / Suppressive Person / Anti Social accuses others of what THEY (Marty Rathbun / David Miscavige / Scientology / L Ron Hubbard / Cock Roach Sleaze – Monique Yingling ARE doing in PT and have been doing for many years…
1. Accusing Leah Remini and Mike Rinder of making money
Whilst the leader of Scientology – David Miscavige bankrupts Scientologists to fund his lavish lifestyle and to re stock his was war chest of CASH so he can hire PI’s, Attorney’s and other sleazy people to Keep Scientology Working ….
EXACTLY.
I feel extremely sorry for Marty. The damage he is causing to whatever cause he think’s he’s up against by spinning conspiracy theories based on demonstrably false facts is minute. The damage he is doing to himself is substantial. I hope that he’s taken a payoff, and that he can get done with whatever they’re making him do and get away from all of this. If he actually believes what he is saying, he’s in the kind of terrible place you can’t leave without hitting absolute bottom.
FYI – Marty’s site is suddenly down and url DNS record points to nowhere. Maybe technical difficulties, maybe something else.
Marty’s blog website is up now.
His site seems okay, I just used it.
I think for history, if his site becomes not under his control, or if he loses control to his contacts who are part of what I suspect is a long range op goading him into his “know-best”, to turn him into his natural devil’s advocate, ex most proficient henchman/legal activities controller, right/left-hand man to a cult boss off and on for 2 decades, he’s doing today what he was conditioned by his career path to do.
Attack the attackers, like no one in recent history was better at than Marty.
Marty I don’t think can help himself from acting out his old role.
He’s consumed with his decades top henchman/legal cases boss roles. It’s gonna be years for him to see himself and the futility of deflection off the big valid criticisms.
His forte was what his videos show.
His forte never was theoretical takedown of Hubbard’s quackery turned fake religion.
Rathbun’s rambles remind me of the last days of the Sadam Hussein regime before it was toppled by the US. Alternatively, I am reminded of the ramblings of the Egyptian government in June 1967, while their military was being decimated by the Israelis. I believe Miscavige’s regime is now going down the same path.
Marty’s top roles being so close to the tyrannical top cult boss, has trickled down and made his brain ruts which today he seems to knee jerk fall into that mindset which was conditioned into him for decades due to his top henchman job. He did that daily briefing report that went Miscavige.
He still thinks like his deepest ruts of his old job, and I’ll bet he pines that no one else is doing his old job, and he inadvertently does what he used to do.
Baghdad Bob! I remember him too, Aharon.
Excellent article, Mike. I also noticed in several of his videos (I haven’t viewed all of them), that Marty speaks in only generalities with no specifics given, no documentation, no proof. And to shame the people harmed by Scn? That is the worst crime of all. They were brave enough to come out with their stories and real names and speak out knowing full well there would be immediate hate sites put up about them, full oflies and degradation, and that they would be Fair Gamed per the Scn policies. That takes some guts and Marty is trying to make nothing of them. This is the Scn playbook: never answer allegations, but only attack attack attack and attack the person who says the things personally. So never do they recommend answering each specific article of contention, but rather just do ad hom attacks on the person shining the light on them. This is what Marty is doing, with his cue cards and notes and Gold Produced video. He is DM’s bitch now. I think these attacks on “Going Clear” book and “Aftermath” series are aimed at their own sheeple to handle them on the horrible PR so as to keep them in the church. Everyone else sees right through it. Mike keep doing what you’re doing.
I was wondering if Rinder can comment on this whole issue of Dani Lemberger’s email. Do you believe that the church’s lawyer in Israel is lying about Marty giving him Danny Lemberger’s email or did he provide an accurate account of how that email went into the hands of the CoS?
My father taught me that friendship and honour were true values. He didn’t care much about money or social position. He lost his life trying to save a drowning child and always gave us the exemple of a loving, caring, generous and humane individual he proved till the last moment that he cared for others. I pity Marty Rathbun because he has a child to give an exemple to and he is writing a page in his life that no one could be proud of.
My admiration and respect goes to those who are brave enough to speak against the cult of greed. Those are great people who deserve our support. Marty does so much to prove his lack of honesty that he must be a very lonely man. Selling one’s life to the devil is definitely not a good deal and he will pay tenfold the price of the bargain. Thank you all who dared to speak an unveil the truth. It is you who deserve a medal of valour and not that poor idiot of Tom Cruise.
Rathbun… what a sick joke he is. He continues to remake his own bed and now he has to lie in it. You can remove Rathbun from of the Scientology Organisation but you can never take Scientology out of him. Even Miscavige must be wary that he’s gone too loony. If anyone in Scientology needs to honestly answer for his crimes against the decency of good people it’s Rathbun. For all you never ins, this is what Scientology can do to you, especially if you ignore decency and conscience and seek the power over others Scientology offers for the ruthless at heart. You don’t need to go to hell Rathbun, you’re already there & it will only get worse and worse if he doesn’t shut the fuck up!
So I went to his YouTube channel to watch his video on this, definitely no specifics given, but also no one can make comments on the videos to ask questions regarding specific. Very interesting…. so not only is he reading from cards, which he is accusing you and Leah of doing, but not giving any supporting evidence, which you are doing. Also, what does it matter that he knew them 9 years ago? Things change and people wake up to abuse and reality and leave to better themselves. Wow he has really gone off the deep end.
More of the same vitriol in Marty’s series of his alternate universe. It would be only a sick game if he was praising DM or his empty ‘ideal orgs’, saving the world, etc. but Marty is attempting to deeply damage individuals who have come out of the abusive cult and live their lives and relate their personal experiences in what is loosely called a “church” while inside.
You continue to comment directly on his blog site (markrathbun.wordpress.com), where there are a half a dozen or so of individual apologists with comments. As it is moderated, and I do not see any real critical comments, I suspect you will not be able to have any posted.
Marty may be moderating out certain comments, but the comments function on his blog is working.
Marty is definitely moderating out almost every single comment that isn’t in agreement with the hate speech that lil davey has been speaking through his mouth. Plus, he’s not responding to anyone’s comments that have posted there, so the comments function on his blog is working well to give the appearance of open discussion, while achieving its exact opposite.
There you go, fixed it for ya 😉
Deborah, if you want to comment on Martys vids, you can go to this users page, Hibernia Eugenesis. They are all there,from the beginning.
Eventually the truth comes out…it always does! The only question is how long will it take? It would seem that the momentum caused by Aftermath is causing a flurry of activity by those who can only bluster and call names. The truth about their dealings, when it comes out, will be interesting indeed. I am convinced the house of cards is crumbling, and the last desperate acts of unscrupulous people are being employed in order to save their collective face. When the only tactic they can employ is “I know you are but what am I”, then you know it is getting close. Kudos Mike and team for persisting for what is right…period. Countless families will thank you when this game is played out. My hope is that when this is all over, those who have suffered so are able to eventually be made whole. I see the pain in the writings day after day from so many. What a needless shame all because of one mans twisted views of himself and his importance. If it was a legacy he wanted, well…he is going to get it.
Dave, I think the end of your post says a lot about this troubled man. To us, his words and actions seem so completely scattered, and it’s plain to us that he was paid off and is now dancing for his dinner. But if you analyze his behavior from clear back, even to Scientology days, even to the day he joined Scientology, his values always seemed to be shifting, he doesn’t know who he is, he justifies his behavior, and on and on. He’s either way superior to everyone, or just less than dirt. As wildly inconsistent this may seem, it’s pretty consistent with someone with narcissistic personality disorder. The fact that he prefaced this whole dramatic shift (after firing the attorneys for the lawsuit) in attitude toward Scientology, he insisted that it actually was consistent with his “views” and that we are all just not advanced enough to see it from his lofty perspective. You look at his book, memoirs of a Scientology warrior, and he’s manipulated the past to sculpt himself into the hero. He would play the guru, and want adulation, and when he didn’t get it in the way he thought he should have, he became enraged, and would drop whatever track he was on altogether. People with NPD are many times extraordinarily intelligent, but are incapable of integrity because their whole purpose in life is to gain leverage, and physics, science, logic and reason will all warp to conform to whatever positions them as superior and with leverage. I really think this man is so confused and mentally ill, and I feel bad for him, watching him scramble for his narcisstic supply. The world now bends because he wanted that money, and anyone standing in his way or even in his vicinity, only exists to serve his quest for leverage. But he will never ever see it that way…he is the noble warrior, superior to both sides, and he’s the only one genius enough to get it. It is a crazy mental illness to have, and nearly impossible to pull them out of…so he will be a liability the people will have to just endure as he wreaks havoc in his self absorbed quest.
Mingalls, good analysis and spot on on the Narcissistic Personality. One thought that occurred to me: Maybe Mosey had had enough and just wanted to end it all, the trial, etc and threatened to leave Marty and end the marriage if he didn’t pull the plug and walk away. So maybe to keep Mosey and the kid, Marty might have let DM know he was open to a settlement negotiation to end it all. And DM then put his demands of what Marty had to do to get the money. And Marty ate crow and did it all just to keep his wife. He thought he’s buy Mosey with all the settlement money. That might be one scenario.
I admit that Tommy Davis used to be my favorite in the cast of scientology characters to speculate about when he did his withdrawal from the organization and as being it’s favorite spokesmodel.
Now that position is occupied by Marty Rathbun. I’ve spent much time looking at what he said before and what he says now. Everything lives on on the internet.
He is worthy of pity and perhaps compassion, yet another casualty of Scientology. His betrayal first of Scientology as an organization (worthy of betrayal) and then of his own beliefs and friends.
I think of him like a POW. Some come back to live lives reintegrated into society as best they can. Some never clear the hurdle. Some identify with their captors. Much of it is self-protective behavior. Marty is a victim of trauma and no dollar amount will appease his demons or buy him peace. What is sad is that he is a tortured soul who has betrayed his true friends for pieces of silver.
I won’t be surprised if he does another major flip flop or decides just to leave it all behind.
Mike, sorry (one of your best friends) actively betrayed you and for money and financial security. He traded one prison of belief for another, perhaps because it was so familiar.
Keep up the good work, Mike. It will bear fruit and I wish you peace.