Mike Rinder's Blog

Something Can Be Done About It

SP Declare Survey

By 121 Comments

shutterstock_102232165Given the interest in the last posting:  Disconnection — Where Are The Declare Orders? I am interested to hear from as many as possible about their experiences with being  declared a Suppressive Person in the last 10 years. (It’s not that anyone declared in previous years was less valid — I just made an arbitrary cutoff to keep this somewhat manageable). 

Many of you have made public statements and are listed in the Indy 500 list. I would still like to hear from you. Others have walked away completely and are no longer practicing Scientology in any way – I would like to hear from you too. 

What I am trying to establish is as close as possible how many people have been SP declared in the last 10 years. I am also interested in how many OTs,  how many classed auditors and what is the combined years of staff experience and so on.  So, if you know other people who qualify to respond to the survey, I would appreciate it if you could encourage them to also respond.

I will publish the numerical results after a few days. [First Results from the Survey Are Here]

If you do not want your name published, just check the DO NOT PUBLISH button after your name. Otherwise I would like to publish an “Honor Roll” of those who have been declared. It is a pretty good measure of how many people have stood up and refused to abide by the abusive practices of the Miscavige church.  This is not the same as Steve Hall’s Indy 500 list because that is intended only to include practicing Scientologists. This list simply represents people who followed their integrity regardless of where they now stand. 

David Miscavige is attempting to purge his church of anyone who does not agree with his abusive  “management” style or squirreling.  He did this in the early 80’s so he probably thinks it will work again. In the age of the internet, that is either the sign of a fool or a death wish. 

SP Declare Survey

  • (Can be approximate)

 

Comments

  1. I’d like to add something to my declare post. Mike and I were declared as a unit: Mike & Bonnie Kittelson. The declare came in a plain brown envelope, with no name, just a return address on Cleveland Street near Flag. The only thing in the envelope was a letter informing us we were declared and the PL on declares. There was no goldenrod included, so the exact specifics are not known. We did have friends tell us what it said, more or less, who were able to read it. More interesting was the fact that the last time two people from Flag came to our house and we told them point blank how we felt, the 1.1 SPs said they weren’t going to declare us and a month later comes this plain envelope. Needless to say we laughed for 10 minutes after reading it. And, as an aside, I might mention that we never fell for the IAS crap and refused to even talk to their regge’s – ever! So, i had a Lifetime membership that I was forced to buy because i was told I could not continue on the Bridge without it. How I managed not talking to IAS idiots while being on OT7 on and off for 18 years is amazing to me in retrospect. I am very interested to see this list of names.

    And a question – does anybody know why RCS doesn’t mail you your goldenrod with the letter? Are they afraid we might post that ridiculous piece of junk on the Internet for all to see?

    Reply

  3. Mike,
    I know the survey doesn’t apply to my category but I’ve done it anyway because I know that I was one of the many people Miscavige wanted to get rid of. In 1980, during my 6 month tenure as FLB Programs chief, in charge of all FSO programs and reporting directly to the old man, with high stats and a very clean ethics record, I was suddenly RPFed by the CMO for guess what? For taking libs on a Thursday!!! The convening authority for my RPF assignement was david miscavige.
    This was kind of similar to Mark Fisher’s “crime”, just an excuse to get me out of the way. The short story is that I fought the RPF assignement with every applicable LRH policy, not forgetting that I was highly trained and experienced in Administration,( FEBC, DSEC, HEJSC) thus defying the CMO which was already being controlled by miscavige. During an SO international amnesty issued by LRH, I just left the RPF and reported back to duty, which must have pissed DM off. The harassment continued until I decided to leave. Then I was declared SP, no comm ev, no nothing. Signed as issued by CMO Int.
    Perhaps you could extend the time span for the declares and the disconnections because I am sure the trend began in 1980-1981, under the influence of Miscavige. I never tire of repeating that the cancer that is obliterating the CoS began long before the last 10-20 years.

    Alex

    Reply

  4. I think that David Miscavige is probably an SP. As far as the “2.5% of the world being SPs” which Ron estimated, I have no idea how he came up with that number. It may be high, it may be low, it may even be spot on. Since I am no longer in Scientology and I realize that 99.9 plus percent of the people of the world do not speak the language of Scientology, I will just use layman’s terms and state that the world is populated by good eggs (those that are helpful or do not cause trouble) and the bad eggs (those that never help anybody and are only for themselves and those that are evil). Mike Rinder, thanks for this blog.

    Reply

  9. Hi Mike,

    Thanks for doing this. It will be interesting to see other people’s stories as well. I shared mine in some detail. I hope it wasn’t too long. I just wanted to explain how I found out I was declared. Especially the part that I presented myself to the ethics section at AOLA to request the opportunity to view my declare.

    I thought it was interesting that they had my mom leave, rather than show her a copy of my declare. I think they also wanted to avoid her hearing about the evil websites.

    Thanks,

    Derek

    Reply

  10. Hi Mike, The survey I filled out for myself is exactly the same for Hiro — so it counts as x2.
    Shannon

    Reply

  11. and the fox supposed to be guarding the hen house eaten by the chickens and now the chickens are chasing the foxes tail… – and around and around we go – whee! 🙂

    Reply

  12. The cult of the Co$ declaring us SPs is about as ironic and actually funnier than The Pot Calling The Kettle Black! its more like the little pile of molten metal which used to be The Pot, calling The Kettle Black!

    Reply

  13. Golden Age of Declares! Arbitraries Removed! Now ANYONE can be declared FOR ANYTHING! We found some old materials that revealed – sort of like truth revealed – that the hesitation and troublesome Comm Evs are actually not needed at all. Now you can make it to the highest levels of absolute Idealness in Declares in seconds. Now someone just needs to say it to another and there. Done. The whole issue of declares is finally 100% back on Source! -That’s Davey isn’t it? Or wait… Whatever. it’s all good.

    Reply

  14. one of the latest justification I heard the other day of those still in, on why the church is having so much trouble expanding is “because people just don’t trust any religion these days…, eg, the catholic church scandles, etc. This coming from one of many thousands I’m sure, who just don’t believe dear little leader’s propaganda shermanspeak straight up and vertical, and there’s this, and moreover, reaching billions Stats.

    Reply

  15. “The Golden Age of Declares.” Mike, you really have me in stitches with that one!
    Now I can’t wait for The Golden Age of Declares II. Where do I sign up!

    Reply

  16. can you be declared twice, just for good measure? if so, I’m hereby declaring all of you here posting comments again. YOU AND EVERYONE YOU’RE IN COMM WITH – ALL DECLARED AGAIN! Why do I have that power? because people listen to me! LOL

    Reply

  17. Hi Mike –

    I this is a great idea which should be promoted broadly to as many “in” Scientologists as possible.

    I have a question for you though: Why did you impose the ten year time limit?

    Are declares that occurred over ten years ago somehow more “valid” than those of the last ten years?

    Alanzo

    Reply

    • No, I just think that 10 years ago it was still pretty clear who was and wasnt being declared — there were still issues that were distributed.

      Miscavige has promoted heavily how great the expansion has been over the last decade and how he has guided Scientology into the “Golden Age.”

      I want to find out if this is also the Golden Age of Declares…

      It’s a complete arbitrary. And as such I suppose there’s not a good explanation really. 🙂

      Reply

      • Mike, “I want to find out if this is also the Golden Age of Declares…”
        now that is rich! I think by now you have your answer. LOL

        Reply

      • I get what you are saying.

        With no OT 9 and 10, and with Super Power and other rip offs going on for decades, I think it is clear that, from Miscavige’s viewpoint, he has to get rid of the people with the most experience with Scientology. They are the ones who are the likeliest to begin spotting the outpoints and waking up and telling others about what they see.

        This has always been the source of problems in Scientology, and the real reason Hubbard developed the PTS/SP tech.

        There is no such thing as an SP as Hubbard defined one. Declaring someone an “SP” was always just a way to expel and quarantine those who would tell the truth about what they know about Scientology so they can’t infect the other paying customers.

        I think your idea of a survey with real data on declares, packaged into an easy-to-read article, with graphs and pie charts just like “What is Scientology?”, and distributed amongst all the Churchies that you can get to, is a great idea.

        And very suppressive! (:>

        Alanzo

        Reply

        • Alanzo — I beg to differ. I think the SP as Hubbard defined it is pretty well understood to be a sociopath and there ARE sociopaths in this society. His 12 points that defined an SP are pretty “normal” and match up with what psychologists consider to be a sociopath.

          But the definition as it is NOW used is certainly a means of eradicating those who would question or think for themselves. Funny, Scientology has defined fundamental characteristics expected of a Scientologist (see thevglitzyt tv ads that push these buttons) as something to be eradicated….

          Reply

          • Mike: But the definition as it is NOW used is certainly a means of eradicating those who would question or think for themselves.

            Not sure when you mean by Now used. I saw back in the early 70’s, a person’s life ruined who I thought didn’t deserve it. It was very sad and insane.

            Reply

            • I mean common usage as opposed to how it is defined in the reference listing the 12 characteristics of an anti-social personality. The “now” is now, it may also have been “now” back in the 70’s too… I am merely trying to differentiate the “SP as Hubbard defined it” — and I am NOT saying there aren’t ALSO Hubbard references used to incorrectly label people as SP….

              Reply

              • Think I understand you. Thought you were saying “now” with DM’s control and therefore different. Yes, errors were made all along I see, and still are, but more so with DM’s interpretation and scared-ness.

  18. I heard that I’m Declared from a friend who heard it from a family member who was attempting to handle my friend and who knows who she heard it from, probably from another family member who heard it from…. hey, isn’t there a song? “heard it from a friend, who heard it from a friend, that you’ve been messing around…” so, yea, I guess it must be true, and I’m certainly guilty of “messing around” with all the squirrels and Sps out here in the free world. Hey, isn’t there another song, “rumor has it…” so I guess I’m guilty by association, multiple reports, and rumor. Gee, I just don’t what to do with myself. LOL 🙂

    Reply

    • Steve, you may enjoy, “Somebody’s Watching Me” by Rockwell

      “But why do I always feel like I’m in the Twilight Zone, and
      I always feel like somebody’s watching me.
      And I have no privacy.
      I always feel like somebody’s watching me.
      Tell me is it just a dream? ” …….it’s kinda catchy.

      Reply

      • KFrancis, are you making light of all this? don’t you know that this a deadly serious game, you other-fish-fry bitter defrocked SP squirrel. Your’e only terminal is the Int Justice Chief. And you are to report Immediately!

        Reply

        • I read your story on another site and I believe it mentioned you had been on lines at Omaha Mission for awhile in the 1970’s. I was too-so I may have met you, but am not sure. I hope you are having a good day.

          Reply

  19. I’d like to fill out the survey but I have never been told I was declared. I kind of beat them to it by disconnecting from the publicly. They know who I am and what I think of them as they wrote a reponse to NBC’s Rock Center when I was on it. I guess they are too busy with other stuff:)

    Reply

    • Eric,
      You are such an SP they made an entire “Hate” website about you. You don’t get any more SP than that buddy! They are too busy manning the hate site to bother with you for sure.

      Reply

  24. I filled it out, but I guess due to being declared in Sept of 2000, I don’t count?

    I guess due to being over the 10 year mark, mine doesn’t count. (BOO!)
    Good idea, Mike! If you ever have time, watch “Magoo Dancing in Boston”
    Here it is: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxpHWev4tiU
    Mark Bunker made it …about 2 weeks after I escaped out.
    There’s a message in it “To Mike Rinder” 🙂

    I was declared shortly after he put it up on the Net.
    Best to you and ALL 🙂
    Tory/Magoo

    Reply

    • Tory,
      I’m going to suggest that anyone declared over ten years ago should receive a special status as an ‘early adopter’. Folks like you have been willing to lead the way and cut the path so to speak to help the rest wake up. Please stand up and get a standing ovation!
      Coop

      Reply

      • I agree. Thank you to Tory, Karen, Marty, Mike, Dan, Steve and many others who paved the way and blazed the trail.

        Reply

  25. Great Mike!
    I left in August 2011, though I did go down to DK for a Kangarroo Kourt (Kom-ev) in Oktober – still PTS as hell.
    I made the plunge in December rather than continue to be miserable, even tho’ it meant an eternity being just a cinder in an infinity of blackness.
    Now I have light.
    I have freedom from and freedom to.
    I haven’t lost anything good that I got from Scientology, in fact the good that I got has been expanded due to the latent gains that accrued as I have become more and more freed from the slavery and robotic cult think.
    My only beef, personally, is that I don’t have my declare in writing.

    It’s summer here in Sweden, which is an incredibly beautiful time of year here.
    Yesterday I watched a working sheep dog demonstrating his skills in herding a flock of sheep.
    He was very good in herding the sheep in one direction and then another, keeping the sheep all together, putting any who tried to diverge quickly back into the group.
    The sheep were, of course, frightened and uncertain and at effect of the sheepherding dog.
    Left alone they would have just grazed and enjoyed the day.
    The dog looked happy & seemed to be enjoying his powers over the sheep.
    It reminded me of being on staff in an idle org.
    I just have to wonder how one can ever achieve cause over matter, energy, space and time while being a sheep.
    Just mentioning some similarities I’ve noticed…

    Reply

    • Great analogy on the sheep dog Phil! “He was very good in herding the sheep in one direction and then another, keeping the sheep all together, putting any who tried to diverge quickly back into the group.
      The sheep were, of course, frightened and uncertain and at effect of the sheepherding dog.”

      Reply

      • Speaking of sheep herding – I was on a course in an org. One weekend day after 6:00 pm, I was making my way toward the building exit and ran into a line of bodies in SO uniforms blocking the exit. We (most of the public on the premises at the time) were herded into the org auditorium and made to take seats. We were penned in by a line of SO-attired bodies blocking the only door out. There was a guy on stage yammering about how we should all join the SO. I was sitting there thinking that herding about and penning in were how one treats sheep, cattle, underlings, slaves, etc. – not how one treats beings that one respects. I really, really got the SO message: Join us and become one of the slave masters, or don’t join us and be our slave!

        Reply

  28. Been out for well over a decade … cut all ties with CO$ Scientologists … under the radar since and happy in my place. Will never be in comm with them again, incl. receiving anything …. be it declares or anything else. Have done far more training and moving up the bridge out here than at the church, which would have been financially impossible there. I have a very good contribution record within the Independent scene but not in any public capacity, so I do more than pull my fair share of weight making Scientology available for anyone who wants it.

    Reply

  30. I don’t think this will show any wheres near the share numbers. I would take your results and multiply by X factor. Only a few hundred regulary post on these sites.

    Reply

  31. Mike, it won’t accept the date and I can’t submit for some weird reason. My husband had the same problem and his just disappeared from the page, so he doesn’t know if it was sent or not. Areas were still pink as well. I was giving you a bogus date anyway, as I’ve never seen the declare and have no clue what the date would have been, except somewhere in 2009. If you want the data, please give me a clue how I can get it sent please.

    Reply

    • I think the trick on the date is to use the calendar and do the month and year and Also CLICK on a DAY. Even if you don’t know the day, just click on one. It doesnt really matter anyway.

      Reply

    • Thanks, Mike. It’s sent. I’ll have Mark try his again tonight.

      And, by the way, I wanted you to know how much I’m appreciating your blog. Thank you for the hard work you’re doing.

      Reply

    • Asthmatic Dwarf, funny one!
      its interesting how we haven’t heard a word from any of the big celebs in the media promoting the Co$ or any that are defending it either, for many, many months now! hey, why so quite? waiting for the other shoe to drop? wake up celebs! it already has, and its high time you speak out! and tell the truth!

      Mike, this subject, the scn celebs and their deafening silence would be great fodder for a post. What do ya think?

      Reply

  35. Well, while I have had some chickensh*t friends disconnect from me (without telling me, just by no longer replying to comms), to my knowledge I am not officially declared. I can answer the rest of the survey. I have been involved with Scientology since before 1969, but I first started the comm course when I was nine = 1969 which is 44 years this summer(!!!!).

    I am a Class VI – Levels A-F graduated in 1985.
    I am OT IV – At AOLA, 1992-ish
    .I am Staff Status II, and did the 3rd Class Missionaire’s school when I was NSO at Flag. I did a number of staff hats, including those I wrote since there were no hats for what I did.
    Never in the SO, but I had a total of about 1.5 years NSO staff experience at Flag/LA Complex, and Bridge Publications (I was the Purchaser for Hubbard Electrometer Manufacturing as NSO).
    So, you know, SP material.
    Mark

    Reply

  36. Mike, Not sure if this applies, but perhaps others have experienced the following also. I got a (relatively large) refund/repayment in 2010, but I was never officially declared as far as I know. I also told most of my “in” friends that I had left the CoS — most disconnected, not because I was declared but because I was being very open and direct about my opinions about the CoS and DM. I did help a couple of others also leave the CoS too and we’ve stayed in better comm than ever, ever since.

    But before asking for the refund, I did get an “Order from HCO” in the mail to report to HCO immediately — I laughed at it and threw it away. (HCO had probably gotten wind that I was disaffected with the CoS, as I was starting to be pretty outspoken about my opinions of things to various folks still in.)

    Anyway, not sure if I was ever declared — no one ever informed me that I was or wasn’t, and I never took the CoS seriously after The Truth Rundown to really even care or try to find out.

    Reply

    • Marg — you, like Bruce, are definitely a grapevine SP. You have posted a lot on Marty’s blog and have had the temerity to actually research the FACTS about the life of LRH. If you aren’t a “letter SP” or a “secret SP with addenda” then you are a grapevine variety. Some think these are in fact the best….

      Reply

      • Oh- cool- Grapevine SP- well- make a category for that then. I guess that’s where I belong too…. I’ve certainly written to you, Marty, Lana, and Dani! And talked with Sylvia- and I love it over on Tony’s blog….on the out of corp sites is where so much more is going on! Better than money laundering any day.

        Reply

  38. I have kept my SP Declare in pristine condition with no folds and in its original envelope.
    Can’t wait to see the results of this survey-going to be some good reading.

    Reply

  39. Done. I know mine was over 10 years ago, but I wanted to participate. I forgot to mention that one of my High Crimes against Scientology was failing to consistently handle my in basket and my Merc traffic! It actually says something like that in my issue.! Lol

    Reply

    • Mark,
      you are one bad bad dog! How could you do such a vile thing against the church of maximum rightness as to not handle your in basket.
      Cheers
      Coop

      Reply

      • Thanks Coop. It just is an example of the degree they had to streach in order to find something wrong I had done over the years. I had a stellar production record for many years working for the DM man and was able to put up with his bullshit for almost 7 years. We had a good laugh when I got the issue in the mail!!

        Reply

  41. I am so far under the radar. I just assumed I was not important enough for anyone to bother with. I am a patron of the ias though, so who knows what the future holds. I like the view better here and on Martys blog.

    Reply

      • Me too re Patron of IAS wanting money back. And Mike, there should be a category for under the radars who have had grapevine disconnectons of people disconnecting based on just a verbal 3P campaign of the church but yet who have no official declare yet.

        Reply

  43. Mike, I wish I could respond, but neither I nor my wife have a clue. We know once upon a time visiting you or Marty would elicit that action, but we just don’t know. With no comm lines that come anywhere near COS lines, we’re clueless. So just know there are 2 OTVIII’s who are maybes! 🙂
    Bruce

    Reply

    • Well Bruce. I can pretty safely assume you are at least grapevine SPs. Being seen consorting with SPs like me or Marty pretty much puts you in the “cinder in cold, dark space for eternity” category. At least we won’t be lonely…. 🙂 Please fill out the survey for you and Jen — what is most interesting to me so far is how LONG people who have been declared in the last 10 years had been in the church! I would guess that right now the AVERAGE is up around 25 YEARS!!!

      Reply

      • Well, that’s mighty GOOD COMPANY! Will do tomorrow…and yes, we’re in that 25 years right now.
        ok buddy

        Bruce

        Reply

        • If you haven’t donated 150% of your income for the last five years to the IAS and/or Ideal Orgs, you are definitely an SP of magnitude, and if you haven’t been declared it’s certainly an oversight.

          Reply

  44. How about one for those under the radar? I’d be curious about active staff, active public, or non-active former staff or public who are under the radar due to familial, work, or other connections.

    Reply

    • The trick of that one is getting those under the radar to be willing to respond to the survey! 🙂 Those who have been declared have nothing to lose. “Under the radars” by definition do. And while some may be willing to anonymously respond there are a lot more people out there who might read this or other blogs, but will never strike a key to respond….

      Reply

      • I think those under the radar want to respond but they are afraid, mainly of being caught and then declared. I think if you need to make it very safe for them and they would do it. For one, tell them about Hushmail. Then maybe have an email address they can send their replies to that is not a public post. I think you would get a lot of people responding and you would find out a lot. Make it a permanent place on your front page so those that don’t read the initial posting will see it when they come to your site and then they can see how to post.

        Reply

  45. Mike, I really look forward to seeing these stats. I believe this will be a very long list. What a win to be on this Honor Roll!

    Reply

  46. It is ironic, but not unexpected, that Miscavige knows so little of history that he chose to bastardize the Scientology religion by imitating the most corrupt popes during the most corrupt era of Catholic Church history. During that time, high church officials enjoyed luxurious lifestyles, practiced immoral and amoral lifestyles, and raised money through the sale of indulgences. During that time, a person could buy their way out of purgatory or hell by purchasing indulgences, and, ironically, indulgences were used to finance large building projects. How did the church respond to Martin Luther’s criticism of its corrupt practices? It “declared” him a heretic. Nevertheless, the church believed it could survive Luther and the rise of Protestantism because it still controlled the production and distribution of the bible. The biggest shock to the church, and the reason why it changed, was the spread of the printing press and the production of the bible in the vernacular. (Ironically, much of the early printing was financed from within the Catholic Church by forces that wanted change.) Compare printing to the Internet. How is it possible for Miscavige to be so out of touch with reality that he fails to understand that through the Internet the world is watching him: sell indulgences to build empty, garish “churches,” live a luxurious lifestyle while starving and abusing a slave labor force, fair gaming and harrassing his “enemies,” and “declaring” anyone that opposes him? If he is going to imitate corrupt popes, you would think he would be smart enough to research what eventually happened to those popes, wouldn’t you?

    Reply

    • Amen Richard. last thing I would want is for the cult to think highly of me. How embarrassing!

      Reply

  49. I can’t really fill this out. I haven’t really been told I’m declared an SP. I have had friends disconnect from me. But only as a response to my Facebook post where I announced the group I was joining. Not as a result of a declare per se.

    The Church has never informed me that I am declared. Perhaps I’ll check into it later. For now, it doesn’t bother me. I’m fortunate that I didn’t lose any family connections when I left.

    Reply

    • I can relate with your story. For 25 years or more, before I went back to straighten things out, I had not been declared even tho I was married to a squirrel who was declared and they knew our whereabouts and activities. Upon his demise they contacted me and I spent a year finding out who They really were! They basically wanted money and I fell for the smoke and mirrors, but not for long. Of course I had been an enemy and got ethics handled. Then I woke up! So they never notified me and doesn’t matter, cause if you did go back, you’d go through some hell. Just know they look at you as an SP anyway. I also lost no family except my step daughter, who was never in, but mother is still is, just no real comm in that direction and all is fine!

      Reply

  50. You do know that Davey boy isn’t going to like this don’t you? He might add this to your addendum.

    Reply

  54. Pls make another Survey for older delcares. Especially those from 82 to 85 could be of interest. That time many SP declares had been issued (or non enturbulation orders). e.g. from 82 to 84 in munich org alone the non div 6 publics (upper Services publics) went down from 2000 to 800 (not all of them had been declared) and staff went down from 200 to 110.
    The HCO board had been full and every day 1 to 5 new orders had been issued a day. Crazy times.

    Reply

  55. I’d like to point to Anonlovers results from his or her Exit Survey http://cofsexit.blogspot.nl/
    This survey was asking anyone ever in, whether declared or not. It might serve as a reference.
    Anonlover made extensive [and delicious] dox. 🙂

    Reply

    • This data is interesting, but the survey Mike is doing will indicate who is the CofS actively trying to get rid of. I think it will show some interesting stuff.

      Reply

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