Tonight’s season finale of Leah Remini Scientology The Aftermath touches upon the subject of how scientologists address mental health issues.
For many years, though Hubbard railed repeatedly against psychiatry, and called for psychiatrists to be shut down as a profession — he had one caveat. The insane should be left to the institutions. They were barred from participating in scientology auditing. It was one of the many contradictions that can be found in Hubbard’s writings – while he claimed all psychs were maiming people, he didn’t want scientology to be involved in dealing with the insane “because they take up too much of our time and too often don’t respond well.
Then, in late 1973, he “discovered” the “cure” for psychosis. His solution was based on the study of one man who had suffered a mental breakdown aboard Hubbard’s ship, the Apollo. Hubbard devised a method for handling him, which included locking the man in a cabin in the focsle of the ship and having nobody speak to him or even talk within earshot. I have personal experience with this — as one of the new guys on the ship, I was assigned the unenviable task of sitting outside the cabin from midnight til 8am each nite to ensure nobody spoke in the vicinity. The subject remained in this cabin in this manner for about 10 days as I recall.
From this SINGLE case, Hubbard declared he had found the cure for psychosis and published it to the world in a bulletin of 23 January 1974 entitled “The Introspection Rundown”
In it Hubbard proclaimed (in all CAPS): THIS MEANS THE LAST REASON TO HAVE PSYCHIATRY AROUND IS GONE
This is the first part of his writing on the subject. This is the “doctrine” of scientology to this day.
HUBBARD COMMUNICATIONS OFFICE
Saint Hill Manor, East Grinstead, Sussex
HCO BULLETIN OF 23 JANUARY 1974
Remimeo
THE TECHNICAL BREAKTHROUGH OF 1973!
THE INTROSPECTION RD
(Steps of list 1 to 17 are subject to possible correction.)
I have made a technical breakthrough which possibly ranks with the major discoveries of the Twentieth Century. It is certainly the greatest advancement of 1973 and is now being released after a final wrap-up of research. It is called the Introspection Rundown.
The purpose of the Introspection RD is to locate and correct those things which cause a person to fixate his attention inwardly, on himself or his bank. This RD extroverts the person so that he can see his environment and therefore handle and control it.
RESEARCH
In 1970 the actual cause of PSYCHOSIS was isolated (as given in HCO B C/S Series 22, “Psychosis”, 28 November 1970). In the ensuing years this has been proven beyond doubt to be totally correct.
But what is a psychotic break?
Man has never been able to solve the psychotic break. In fact, human beings are actually afraid of a person in a psychotic break and in desperation turn to psychiatry to handle.
Psychiatry, desperate in its turn, without effective tech, resorts to barbarities such as heavy drugs, ice picks, electric and insulin shock which half kill the person and only suppress him. The fact remains there has never been a cure for the psychotic break until now.
The key is WHAT CAUSED THE PERSON TO INTROSPECT BEFORE THE PSYCHOTIC BREAK.
The breakthrough was made on a person who, after a series of wrong indications, went into a full-blown psychotic break—violence, destruction and all.
The psychiatrist at this point would have sharpened up his ice pick, filled his syringes with the most powerful (and deadly) drugs he could find and turned up the volts. His “handling” would have been a final destruction of the individual.
What was done was an auditor went into the room, sat the person down and corrected the last severe point of wrong indication. Subsequent times of wrong indication in his life were cleared up, the person came out of the psychotic break and into p.t.
THIS MEANS THE LAST REASON TO HAVE PSYCHIATRY AROUND IS GONE.
The psychotic break, the last of the “unsolvable” conditions that can trap a person, has been solved.
And it’s quite simple, really.
…
STEPS OF THE RD
…
0. On a person in a psychotic break isolate the person wholly with all attendants completely muzzled (no speech).
00. Give Vitamins (B Complex, including niacinamide) and minerals (calcium and magnesium) to build the person up.
He sums up his “breakthrough” this way:
You have in your hands the tool to take over mental therapy in full. You need not fear the insane or the psychotic break any longer.
Here also is the cure for the continual self-auditing pc who is dug into his bank. It works on all pcs in fact with rave results.
Do it flawlessly and we all win.
The “rundown” itself consists of numerous questions the person is asked on an E-Meter.
Hubbard subsequently issued further instructions to the Case Supervisor (C/S) in charge of the auditing concerning letting the person out of “isolation.”
There comes a point where the C/S must decide to release the person from isolation. To do this the C/S must know that the person can take responsibility for his actions as regards others, as well as toward himself.
The C/S’s action is a direct comm line to the person by notes. The person is provided with paper and pen to reply. The C/S must determine the person’s responsibility level. Example: “Dear Joe. What can you guarantee me if you are let out of isolation?” If the person’s reply shows continued irresponsibility toward other dynamics or fixation on one dynamic to the exclusion of others damaged the C/S must inform the person of his continued isolation and why. Example: “Dear Joe. I’m sorry but no go on coming out of isolation yet. Your actions threatened the survival of hundreds of people indirectly and 6 families directly by burning down their houses. You are unaware of the effects this could have had and still only concerned about your own welfare. You must hate the human race quite a bit.”
Hubbard’s “breakthrough” has been applied in scientology since. Scientologists are expected to sign an agreement that includes the following language:
I do not believe in or subscribe to psychiatric labels for individuals. It is my strongly held religious belief that all mental problems are spiritual in nature and that there is no such thing as a mentally incompetent person — only those suffering from spiritual upset of one kind or another dramatized by an individual. I reject all psychiatric labels and intend for this Contract to clearly memorialize my desire to be helped exclusively through religious, spiritual means and not through any form of psychiatric treatment, specifically including involuntary commitment based on so-called lack of competence. Under no circumstances, at any time, do I wish to be denied my right to care from members of my religion to the exclusion of psychiatric care or psychiatric directed care, regardless of what any psychiatrist, medical person, designated member of the state or family member may assert supposedly on my behalf (See here).
There have been a number of tragic results from the scientology “treatment” of those in psychotic states:
Lisa McPherson: she was taken out of a psychiatric hospital and administered the “Introspection Rundown” and died 17 days later under the care of scientology.
Elli Perkins: On March 13, 2003, Scientologist Jeremy Perkins killed his mother, Elli, by stabbing her 77 times. Jeremy, previously diagnosed with schizophrenia, never received treatment after previous incidents with violence and hallucinations. His mother, active in the Buffalo Church of Scientology, felt that vitamins and Scientology routines were better than psychological counseling and anti-psychotic medication.
Linda Waliki: On July 5, 2007, a 25-year-old Australian woman, Linda Waliki, killed her 52-year-old father Michael, 15-year-old sister Kathryn, and injured her mother Sue with a knife. She was diagnosed with a psychiatric illness, but her parents denied her continued psychiatric treatment due to their Scientology beliefs.
Gary Beals: attacked his father, Arthur Beals, and his mother, Lawana, with a knife, and then shot his father with a handgun. Gary was a Scientologist. The CoS had talked him out of seeking psychiatric help while bleeding his bank account dry. He blamed them for his crime.
Here are more articles about tragedies along the same lines: here, here and here.
This is the tip of the iceberg, but gives an introduction to this little known aspect of scientology that is highlighted in the season finale show.
The Show Tonight and the Series
There is another show coming next Tuesday that features some special guests, and hopefully before then we will be able to tell you where we are going from here.
As always, I am interested in your views – including criticisms and things you think might be better explained or covered.
For new readers here I thought you might find it instructive to be directed to some earlier postings that may help explain some things about scientlogy.
To begin to understand the mindset scientologists have about those who criticize any part of it, read this article:
Dealing with Critics of Scientology — The L. Ron Hubbard Playbook
And then read this one:
And here is a fairly short explanation of how disconnection is used in scientology (and how they try to spin the practice):
Disconnection: the PR and the Truth
An overview of the efforts by scientology to smear Leah Remini:
Scientology Dead Agents* Itself
And finally this is a post about the lies they tell about their “expansion”:
Scientology “expansion” debunked
What You Can Do
Call your Congressman and Senator to do something about the ongoing abuses. Initiate a Congressional Hearing. Ask them to demand the FBI or IRS look into things with the church. Write to the IRS. Support and comment on media articles and blogs that cover the abuses (like Tony Ortega at the Underground Bunker) and express your support to A&E for stepping up and taking on scientology.
Watch Leah Remini: Scientology The Aftermath every week and tell your friends to do so.
Don’t ever think you have no voice or there is nothing you can do. There is plenty.
Your support of Leah and everyone else involved is invaluable and appreciated. Please don’t stop. Knowing there are a lot of people out there on our side is comforting and gives strength.
Hi Mike,
I just watched the entire A&E series. As a Canadian and a non-religious person, it was nothing short of mind-boggling. I applaud you for speaking out… I imagine you must feel a great deal of guilt and this is probably very cathartic for you. Tell me – are there Scientology Centers in Canada? I’m curious but i’m kinda wigged out at the idea of going to the Church’s website… Like they might be able to capture my IP address or something.. LOL. Thanks, and best if luck to both you and Leah!
LRH’s rejection of psychiatric labels proves he was reading and plagiarizing from humanistic existential psychologists of his era. It was the zeitgeist of that time to reject diagnostic labels. I was trained in a school specializing in this type of psychology and we still shrink (pardon the pun) from using them (but must in order to get paid by insurances.) The curious thing is even humanistic psychologists will agree that having a diagnosis can be liberating for clients because it helps to give a name to their struggle. LRH was clearly a psych wannabe but lacked the education necessary to avoid being dangerous. That is frequently found as a hallmark in psychopaths. They believe they are smarter than everyone else.
One more diagnostic box checked for LRH as a psychopath. As a rule, I discourage clients from following psychopaths as religious leaders.
This week’s episode on how Scientology views mental illness and psychiatry in general was eye opening and very scary to me. It can be so dangerous for a person to go undiagnised and untreated, and for Scientology to completely dismiss the science of Psychology and Psychiatry is insanity itself. Thank you and Leah for the work you are doing and I pray you are able to make a real difference in people’s lives.
Congrats to you Mike and Leah for waking up and getting out, then having the gumption to do something about it. The show was awesome and we are all hoping for more seasons. Its amazing how gullible people can be really. I was once given Dianetics by someone, and read a few chapters then tossed it out. It was obviously some hookey crap by some wierdo. How any entity can present this idiots writings as some sort of gospel is incredible. All any sane person has to do it look up the history of Hubbard and the beginnings of this cult. He had no background in science, medicine or religion, but he was a legend in his own mind. He was a failure in everything he did, and hung out with people into the occult! The ideas for the beginnings of Dianetics came from a crack pot doctor who was into the occult. Today so much accreditation and study is needed by anyone hoping to present a cure for anything, then this crack pot comes up with this crap and his followers take it as the end of game truth. He hates psychology because the APA laughed at his work as they should have. Its obvious to anyone its not a religion in the slightest sense of the word. How in the hell did the IRS give them an exemption when they don’t meet half the items on the IRS definition list required to be considered one? What deity do they worship? Where do they congregate to worship on a regular basis? Its also blatantly obvious, when any entity asks for money for any product or service on a daily basis, sets up sales centers, and sets sales limits, its a scam, not a church. Why has the IRS not questioned them calling these monies donations when the people are paying for a service or product? A donation is a voluntary function, and involves nothing in return be expected. If Leah wanted to make more of what she doesn’t need, money, she would have had T-shirts made up that say Proud to be a Supressive Person! and sell them.
I’m so proud of Leah, Mike, the producers and A&E for taking on the Church of $cientology. You have been harassed and threatened, and know the lengths they go to to silence critics – but you continue anyway. Hopefully this show will make a difference. Take away their tax-exempt status. Make them stop with the extortion of money from followers. The church under COB DM is not the church of LRH. Fortunately the numbers of people joining are dwindling, and the number of defectors is rising. I hope that someday Mikes kids come to realize the lies they’ve been told, and follow their father out of the church.
A psychotic break can manifest in ways where the person does not hurt another but hurts himself, like committing suicide. I wonder how many suicides could have been prevented with the proper care? I personally knew two men who went into despair over the ending of a relationship and while on services, committed suicide. One was only 22 years old. The other was a father. Very sad.
Val
How is this:
“The Oxford Dictionaries Online define the scientific method as “a method or procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses”.[4] Experiments need to be designed to test hypotheses. The most important part of the scientific method is the experiment.[5]”
Does that make you feel better? I know scientologists don’t like buzzwords, unless, of course, the buzzwords are made up by a man high on ‘pinks and greys’.
Speaking of ‘pinks and greys’ …..that was the scientific research method of L. Ron Hubbard. Get really high and then write a whole bunch of nonsense down and see how many people will go for it
You’re still trapped by the Prison of Belief (gah!! more buzzwords!).
You may not be in David Miscavige’s Maximum Security Prison, but you are still in the LRH Prison For the Fifth Invader Force of Loyal Officers.
Maybe you will understand this if I use ‘proper’ buzzwords: LRH alter-ised his reality. Don’t allow him to continue to do that to you. Fruit of the poisonous tree is still poisonous, even if it is fresher fruit.
I want to say that as an outsider we have a lot of questions. I have read all comments and replies on this post and one thing which has struck me is the response to those of us who just do not know and genuinely are trying to understand. I ask that those of you who have dedicated your lives to comprehending the seemingly endless details of Scientology to please consider those of us who watched the A&E show and jumped down the rabbit-hole. Many responses to questions are sharp, sometimes demeaning, or condescending. As a wife to a husband born without a brain to mouth filter, I am personally aware that some people do not word questions or comments politely. I also am becoming more aware that former and current Scientologists have a need to defend and a ligament concern in regards to “trolls”. For example down toward the bottom of these comments and responses a commenter inquired about financially carrying on….. I saw it worded how my husband would have worded the question if he could figure out how to get onto the blog! This was my comment, and I feel that it makes a good point. I sincerely hope that the lines of communication between us “never-ins” and current free from, ex, almost-ins can be open. All in the hope of understanding so we can support your fight!
“….asked a personal question, but please consider how those of us on the outside see ex-Sea Org members and/ or 2nd gens. My husband and I have had countless rabbit-hole conversations and one that neither of us understand is how one makes a life after “blowing”. Admittedly, our understand[ing] is minimal. But how does one survive? It seems if someone leaves the SeaOrg they get a very small severance pay or a “Freeloaders Bill”. Am I incorrect? Then what happens to those who have a limited education or 2nd Gen raised solely within Scientology? Do they receive a diploma? Many of the readings and interviews by Scientologist are well written and spoken. I assume that is because reading is so intensive within the philosophy.
Those of us who don’t know are curious. How do you start over? I cannot imagine a lifetime, unable to save funds, and to start over. One can only assume that funds are limited, education is limited, career experience is limited. I think Jordan’s question may be poorly worded, but the answers would help those of us who have been sucked into the rabbit-hole.
And because it is personal I am willing to share that I am an ICU RN, as a second career. Any salary website can give the idea of yearly income earnings.
I have zero intention of being rude.”
Please consider this comment as a genuine plea, I feel that responding in a negative tone to those of us that do not know may push some support away.
I hear you Hope for Change. You make good points.
On the other hand you must understand, these blogs are have hurt and betrayed people. There are many here who have the same story of loosing children as those on A&E.
MANY…….
You just don’t know their story.
So sometimes the communications are not neat and tidy.
Also, the church does send trolls to cause upset to these sites. Just like they send PIs in secret to follow and harass Leah and the rest.
So it can be crazy making to not know who is simply a normal person with a grip or a Scientology goon sent here to cause trouble and arguments.
We are in a process. And just like going to family therapy, sometimes it gets a little dark.
Just know that the people who come here are good folks. It’s a process. We are all in a healing process from belonging to a mind numbing, children stealing cult.
Thank you for understanding and voicing your view. Healing emotions takes time. Sometimes those emotions can kick up some dirt. But the goodness of the folks who come here, most of them, are good people.
Sorry for not editing, some of my wording is brutal. 🙂
Thank you, Brian for your comment. I am with all of you in support and I have an understanding of how terrifying it must be for all of you to have to decipher intentions. I just hope that others who are on the outside looking in sees that some reactions are out of pain and not as personal as they may seem.
H4C, We appreciate your sincere questions and understand the confusion that going down the rabbit-hole into $cientologyville can caused. One meta-level insight there that might help is that the subject was designed by its creator to be vast, overwhelming, contradictory and unable to be reconciled with the known laws of physics or brain science. In short, it’s confusing because the source was confused and had the intent of bamboozling others,Getting your marks good and confused before you fleece them is very workable strategy no matter what kind of con that you’re running.
A full answer to your question about how escaped $ea Orgy staff start over probably has as many different answers as there are escapees. Ironically, though, many were helped during their transition to the civvie life by their familes, some of whom had been waiting decades for their return.
Part of our job here in $cn-watching land is to help those who are just beginning to read up on the cult to navigate the specialized language and bizarre concepts and practices. Never be afraid to ask, someone is sure happen along shortly to help you to better understanding.
Much as I love Mike’s blog, the way the comments section is formatted makes it difficult to keep track of extended conversations, so I’d invite you to drop in on Tony Ortega’s site, The Underground Bunker, here http://tonyortega.org/ and join the conversation. There’s a wealth of excellent material and additional links there and folks are generally very welcoming and quick to answer questions.
I get what you are saying. I am a never-in but I have been ion the fight against Scientology for ever 8 years now, and before that I already read a lot about it on the net.
I think Mike’s blog has always attracted people who are or were in, and people like me with, if I may say so myself, quite some knowledge about the cult.
With the Aftermath-series there is a recent big influx of people who don’t have the same background, and of course, they ask questions.
Although there are people around who just friendly answer those questions,I also think people who have been around here longer sometimes tend to be impatient. Another reason is that OSA (the church’s “secret service”) also can post here to try and get us from our goal: doing something about it. And of course there are obviously trolls.
However, it must also be said that people can go find out the answers they’d ike for themselves.
Mike offers some great resources as links to books, other blogs and what not. Can’t see these now as I’m typing this, but I would advise Mike to (if it’s not already there) e.g. add the link to e.g. http://www.xenu.net/ which is a site by a long time critic, Andreas Heldal-Lund. It offers a lot of explanation.
Wikipedia also is a great resource.
Even more info is in the links below:
http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Former_Church_of_Scientology_members_who_have_spoken_out
http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Accounts_of_Scientology%27s_Disconnection_Policy_by_Former_Members_and_Others
http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Chronology_of_publications_on_Scientology
http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Scientology_Suicides
Of course there are also the website the church has. They… should be taken with a few kilo’s of salt. It is for sure that the church will only refer to them, and not to others. Critics will mostly say: look at both sides, and make your own decisions.
Hope this answers your question.
Short addition: please also be aware that not every visitior of the blog has English as native tongue (I myself am Dutch). Saying things in one language may be perfectly reasonable, but using a literal translation in another language or another culture may be looked at as rude. 🙂 Scientology really is an international subject!
TrevAnon, thank you for the reminder that translation could also inhibit well meaning points. I had not considered the view. Also, thank you for more sources.
Hi Hope4Change.
I’ll give it a try.
When leaving the Sea Org it very much depends upon the individual, in each case, how they survive afterwards. Read Counterfeit Dreams to see what Jefferson did. See Aron Smith? video at Chris Sheltons to see what he did. See what Lois and Gary did.
I left young and arrived in my home country penniless. One set of clothes. No cash. No home. Busted. No severance package (!!) but I was given a freeloader bill for services I had taken while in. So, just debt. It was about a bill of $40,000.
I still had a few friends I knew. I bummed free accommodation for a month while frantically searching for a job. While doing this I found a door-to-door sales outfit that paid cash commission only for sales made that day. Then landed a decent job as a rep. I had a very good work ethic. I could communicate well. Started in sales on the road for a company and grew from there. Studied part time and rebuilt my life. Did very well I would say.
The older you are the tougher it is, I assume. Sometimes it gets to a point when it is too late to blow. Too old.
Friends and acquaintances have had their own experiences. One straight into restaurants, from the bottom and up from there. One Started a trade and qualified later. Another started a career within a company selling wholesale goods to retail chains and grew from there. So, anything is possible.
Many I know needed up working for Scientologists who were in business. Some avoided ex-Sea Org Members. Others had balls and hired them anyway. Ex-Sea Org members are outcasts per the norms of those still in the SO.
My problem was explaining the gap in my resume. This was relevant when applying to bigger companies. The smaller guys couldn’t give a dang.
Many ended up starting their own companies.
I think if you asked each individual ex-Sea Org member, you would hear a different story.
Hope that helps.
Pink legs, it helps very much and thank you for taking the time to share your story. I was a single mother at one time in my life with little to no work experience and only a high school diploma four states away from where I was raised. I struggled for awhile. But I always had my family – even if only by phone. I always had a safety net and when I chose to use it I was able to move home and obtain a degree and a career. It was not an easy life, but your story and stories like yours shows me how incredibly easy I had it and how blessed I am to have never been forced to lose a loved one to a organization. Disconnection was never a fear in my life and I and only empathize.
Unfortunately, I have not had much time to moderate and reply to comments on the blog over the last little while due to circumstances beyond my control. Recently I have been doing it on my phone which is extremely difficult for a klutz like myself with fat thumbs and poor hand-eye coordination.
A VERY fast answer to this question that has been posed a lot recently:
1. The vast majority of Sea Org members still have family who were not involved with scientology to return to when they leave.
2. Those who do not, like me, typically reach out to former SO members (like I did — I went and lived with Tom DeVocht for the first few weeks)
3. Ex-SO are uniquely suited to surviving — they are generally trained to be tough in the face of adversity and not just collapse into a heap of hopelessness, they have a work ethic that is beyond what anyone could ever hope for and they appreciate every blessing and every dollar. They are thus almost ideal employees. I started selling cars. Requires no resume — commission sales is live and die on your own success. Your initial job is not going to make you a furtune, but it does get you on your own feet and make it possible to move on from there.
As with everything — some do not succeed. But I would hazard a guess that the vast majority do.
“ideal employees”
I see what you did there Mike…. 😛
Mike, thank you for taking the time to read my comment, let alone reply. I feel honored and cannot wait to show my husband! Thank you for the information. This helps to understand the struggles you all face. I hope that former SOs can continue to grow a chain by reaching a hand back to help each other out. As far as fat thumbs…. it’s a true condition that most of us have! Lol.
Always in support.
I just happened to be listening to my favorite satellite radio music stations when the host said she didn’t get much sleep because she had binged on and watched the finale of Leah Remini’s show about Scn on A&E and she made comments about how disturbed she was by it.
Hi Mike, thank you for this amazing show, that made a big deal even in russsia where it wasn’t officially aired (but you can find all the episodes on rutube for example). That was a number of marvelous story’s about good people who overcome scn. Give a big hug to Leah and all the participants (especially to Aaron and Mark Headly from me and to Mary Khan, Lois Reisdorf and Clair Headly from my wife).
But that was something in this episodes what wasn’t so good. It was really to much fixation on our beloved COB. It’s not a big secret that many of us who are already out (plus many of sitting on the fence) are secretly keeping a dream that it will be a special briefing on which it will be told that DM dropped his body, joined LRH on target 2 and on his last breath undeclared all SP, cut the prices on 300%, get stuff to be paid average in their rigeon salaries and told everyone around him what OT 9-15 should be. And after that all will be great again, orgs start to boom and etc. sometimes wile watching the show both unprepared and even good informed about scn viewers can believe that a core broblem of scn is DM and only DM.
I know this is heavy duty stuff but I must say I appreciated the moment of humor when Mike cracked up about the Scientology neighbor who didn’t want to disconnect from their dog.
I agree & hope they ck that dog for Bugs cripe who can one trust within that place & sorry that woman seems like she might use ? to speak with a Real Med Therapist..
Another great show! I want more!!!
I wonder how it is okay for a Scientologist to get eye glass for a defect in their vision or tooth repair for a defect in their dentition but not get chemical aids for a defect in their brain chemistry?
My heart goes out to the man who had a bipolar episode and ended up with a record
As I was watching the show with my 13-year old, he asked me who the bad guys are so he could revile them. It hit me smack in the face. The bad guys may have done (and continue to do) some VERY harmful things to people. However, the true evil is a spiritual evil that seeks to lie, kill and destroy. In other words, the real battle is not against flesh and blood, it is against satanic forces that aim to destroy people. Some of those “bad” guys are angry, scared, destructful, and hateful. But more than anything they are pawns in the true war.
I applaud this show’s efforts to expose what has been hidden. I also am glad it is airing because it stirs me to pray for those caught up in this evil of destroying people. Yep. I’m also praying for Miscavaige. Surely a man who rages all of the time is ridden with pain and anguish. I’m asking God to heal his brokenness and set him free. I’m praying for those wounded and torn by loss and abuse. I’m praying for their healing and restoration of relationships.
Blessings on
Amen, FeliciaB
yes one of there shows a gal needed to go get new contacts & course had go w ? U’d think if there claims on being Superior ppl one could go alone but the girl escaped & got away from this cult so at least eye’s are not curable & Leah said they wanted No Pain meds w childbirth but she said yeah okay NO but that’s all I’ve heard yet I wonder if Travolta didn’t let his son Jet to receive meds for his condition but that whole place seems hell bent to hurt the very ppl who keep them going imo anyway just very sad & selfish to the good ppl.
There would be a delicious irony/justice if the Co$ was brought down by a barrage of lawsuits.
If all the child laborers, women who were coerced into abortions, slave laborers, etc came forward either in a class action or one by one.
He who lives by the sword, dies by the sword
Chee your mouth to God’s ears. Regarding Mike’s post above of the deaths, I found this site. Maybe not new to you veterans here but blew me off my feet when I found it.
http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Scientology_Suicides
Mike,
Another GREAT episode. I checked over at tvbythenumbers and your, and Leah’s, stats are staying high and still getting nearly 2 million viewers. Compare the real people watching the episodes of Aftermath to Davy’s hundreds of captive believers watching his slime videos and it is obvious that the court-of-public-opinion has put the COS into the trash bin. The COS has now fallen so far from non-existence that his only path is further down to the condition of Vanish.
The success the two of you are having will not be lost on &E management, they know a good thing when it happens. Looking forward to another season with perhaps another theme. You have a number available.
The actual viewer numbers are even higher than the official ratings, thanks to repeats, DVR viewing, plus the people who watch later on A&E.com and YouTube. And lots of those viewers are finding out even more, thanks to blogs like Mike’s and Tony Ortega’s.
You and Leah need to start an organization where those who want to escape can go. There is an organization called “Footsteps” for Hasidic Jews who want to leave that you could pattern it after. If that existed, I’d hand cards to the Sea Org members I see at Von’s every single time I’m there.
Also, what is the significance of the bench in front of the L. Ron Hubbard museum at Ivar and Hollywood Boulevard? I’ve seen Sea Org members being talked to on that bench and they’re usually in tears. It’s like a bench of shame. I just watch and feel helpless. If there was an organization that they could contact, I’d walk up to the crying person and hand them a card with the info on it. Thanks.
Any plans to interview David Miscaviage’s niece? Her book was mind blowing and got me kind of fired up. Then this show took that to a whole other level! It’s so well done! So bummed there aren’t more episodes!
PS can you do something on the courses you guys took? Like what kind of classes are they? How many books did you have to read and what’s in them? Do you take tests? How do kids learn the basics if they’re not in real school?
Yes, where is Jenna? I will never forget – Scientology tried to dismiss her by providing her tv interviewer with pictures of her great living accommodations – and Jenna said “yeah, we worked 18 hours a day building all of that, I built that rock wall instead of going to school – she resonated with a lot of people
Yes! Jenna! Thank you – I couldn’t remember her name and was on my phone. I wonder about her parents too – DMs sibling…
Do you still talk with Marty Rathbun? I was hoping to see more from him as he was featured in the Going Clear movie, plus the connection to actor Jason Breghe. Jason’s 2 hour you tube interview is fascinating. I realize VERY intelligent, thoughtful and talented people are and could be enticed into cults.
I think this is why CoS is so fascinating. Look at all the wonderful people who were in it!!!! You and Leah, and so many you can read about or see via YouTube. A ‘Lord of the Flies’ culture was perpetuated. That’s disturbing enough to really question examine and eradicate. Big cheerleading going on for ALL involved!
Marty kinda went off the deep end last year. His wife dropped her lawsuit against Scientology, even though she had the momentum. Marty has kinda done a 180 on things, and Tony Ortega somewhat explained that on 20/20 last Friday.
Listen Dave, I know there’s a lot going on. Lots and lots of randomity. OK this is what we’re going to do. Amongst all the confusion and chaos pick out one thing…..say….oh I don’t know…OK how about another smear site on somebody, or beating the shit out of somebody, targeting a family for disconnection, etc, etc
OK it doesn’t really matter Dave, Bubbala…just choose one. OK. And then what we will find happen is the chaos starts to dissipate. OK, get the idea.
OK good, now go off and take a baseball bat to someone who looks at you the wrong way, ok? After you’ve handled that maybe a smear site or two, ruin a couple of families. One at a time until the randomity lessens and order starts to return. OK START
Smear site? Like this?
http://www.whoismichaelrinder.com/
Harvey. A psychotic break sounds like what most New York City office workers do around the coffee machine at about 10:30 a.m. Monday to Friday. “I took a psychotic break and poured myself some coffee”. (joke). But, fortunately, I have never had to resort to psychotic breaks to address situations so I imagine this is bad for the church in many ways. Where would the Church of Scientology be if they did not have psychiatry to blame for all their woes. Was it a psychiatrist that stole my letters from L. Ron Hubbard so I could never read? No, it was a staff member that had attained the state of clear. 🙂
I am filled with admiration and respect for both you and Leah. How dare those people at the top of the Scientology heap proclaim themselves a religion and then set out to destroy everyone who voices the slightest disagreement with them. How is that in any way going to transform the universe into anything but a totalitarian state???Thank you for your courage and your extremely eloquent portrayals of a great evil–if no one speaks out, the rest of us can’t know and can’t help.
Mike – I greatly admire what you and Leah are doing in telling the truth of Scientology. I have been watching each show and sharing it with my friends. I have been devouring these blog posts and just wanted to let you know that I appreciate having your perspective to educate me further on this “religion”.
I was just informed of something, which I hope is not true…but I’d love to get insight into it, if it is. I was recently part of a discussion about “deprogramming” people who have been involved in cults. A professional mentioned Cult Awareness Network and was immediately shut down because it was supposedly “acquired” in 1996 by the Church of Scientology and renamed New Cult Awareness Network, claiming to still do cult deprogramming, yet under the teachings of scientology. Is this true?
Yes which i also found to be a stunning fact, LieInTology and its leader Captain 4 foot 13 are about to get their just due. TickTock David Miscavige.
The were ‘ruined utterly,’ yes. Unfortunately.
http://www.skeptictank.org/can-cos.htm
http://www.xenu-directory.net/can.htm
I hope second season comes quickly. You have momentum right now. I pray the legal system will now step up and truly investigate this cult & remove religious tax status.
How can anybody still be part of this VILE cult after watching this episode?
As a person who is Bipolar, I wonder what Scientologists go through when they’ve already been diagnosed with a mental illness prior to joining the church. Those who were medicated probably quit cold turkey and suffered the horrible effects of withdrawal then went on to feel the effects of the untreated illness. All of this for a bogus “religion”.
I think we all want to believe in something larger than ourselves and I can truly see the enticement of the church back in the day. But there is just too much truth out there now. Nobody should be starting fresh with the church in this day.
The show is an explosion of knowledge. I’m reading Leah’s book right now. I can’t get enough of this information. I’m obsessed.
Keep going!!!
Unless they changed their policies, for decades the policy of the cult was that anyone who had taken psychiatric drugs or treated by psychiatry would not be allowed to be audited. They make it fairly apparent that they just want to help the “able” be more able and do not care about people with real problems.
Last nights show was heartbreaking. It seemed so sad to me that this family suffered so much.
What I found really surprising, is that the CoS would want to prosecute Brandon for several reasons.
1. The potential for their own liability. I mean they “diagnosed”, “Treated” him and it failed abysmally. It seems that the degeneration of his mental health, might very well lay squarely on their shoulders.
2. The potential (now actual) bad press, that may ensue. I mean, they look REALLY bad and if they had not pressed felony charges, this wouldn’t have really gone anywhere. This has exposed them on so many levels…..I mean really?
3. The PR nightmare, of bringing up cases like Lisa McPherson again. I mean, if they want to be forgiven for that, they are doing a pretty shit job.
Brandon mentioned that he feels like his life is “destroyed” or “over” before it has begun. NOT TRUE.
He is a survivor. He is a champion and a voice for those who sadly cannot speak for the impact of the CoS on people with mental health issues. There are those, who are just not here (Lisa) to speak at all. He is and he has. That shows great courage and resilience.
He should be proud of himself, not ashamed.
He is Victorious NOT a Victim.
I just cannot believe that this poor young man was subjected to the Rundown. I mean that would make a sane person go crazy.
These stories show how important it is for you, Mike, and Leah to keep going with this show.
A drip becomes a trickle,
A trickle becomes a stream
A stream becomes a river
And a river, well it can become a Tsunami and bring the whole place down.
I don’t think people should judge the Reisdorfs for how they handled it. We all do the best with what we have and they did. Plus, they have the bravery to share their story, with the knowledge that not only WILL the church fight back, but regular folks will have their troll like comments too.
They fought for their children and continue to do so. For any one who knows anyone with Bipolar disorder with hallucinations, it is a terrible illness. Mental illness is far more difficult to understand as it is invisible – not a cancer. The patient will say and do things that that others may not be able to forgive. That is on them, because the patient is not responsible for what they are doing. Which makes me wonder why they even proceeded with a felony charge. It seems to me, that they should have let the whole thing go. Especially, as he was taken into custody right out of the hospital.
So no fear Reisdorf family, it makes the Church of Scientology look really, really, really bad……and it makes you look strong. Keep on going!!!!!
I am still dealing with the aftermath of last night’s show. I was deeply affected by the show being reminded how COS is filled with hate to attack all critics and destroy families. Somehow this show must leak through their firewall of control so my daughter and others have a chance to learn the truth and escape this prison. We can’t stop until it does and I pray the attorney you were meeting with finds a way to break this veil of hiding behind the first amendment. Worshipping money and power does not make it a legitimate house of worship. I will meditate and pray that truth prevails and their evil will be denied,once and for all. Thanks to you and Leah for moving this agenda forward! Onward!!
Hey Brian, I am with you.
Hey, remember when we went to see the Incredible Stringband? In New York?
Outstanding post, Kathleen!
Good points you make, Kathleen. Have Brandon’s parents, Lois Reisdorf and husband, thought of suing the church? The church practiced medicine without a license. And their actions actually caused and brought on the psychotic break because he was so distraught over the loss of his brother to Disconnection. And not to mention the bad PR the church will suffer through this pressing of charges, and the fact that as media cover it, it opens the door to bringing up the Lisa McPherson case, which is similar re Introspection R/D. Could pressing charges be another foot bullet for the church?
What I found really sad was that you had two people sitting there that you personally had affected in a very negative fashion and your first comment wasn’t, “I am deeply sorry for the pain I have caused you”. Both of you sat there with your mouths open and backtracked rather than simply stating the obvious. Mr. Sweeney even made a reference to that very thing and neither of you could just say the words he was clearly asking from you??? He even gave you an in by commenting about the show being a testament of your remorse! Mr. Sweeney himself stated that your tactics in “fair gaming” him affected his mental well being and neither of you showed any remorse!? You stated it was simply your mind set at the time! I find it interesting that you are expecting the members of Scientology to stand up and take responsibility, but you yourself can not. My experience in life has been that we get what we put forth and true change begins from within.
Well you have no idea what my first comment was to them really. I have met with all 3 of them numerous times over many years before this show was filmed. I guess u don’t have a lot of understanding about how a TV show is made. It was not live. And rest assured I have apologized to each of them many years ago. It is why we are friends today. Do u think they would have come on the show if that was not the case?
I have heard Mr. Rinder apologize several times over the past few years, both in print and on camera, to everyone that he harmed while in his official scn capacity. So when that pause happened, I didn’t think that Mr. Sweeney was looking for an apology, and I didn’t fault Mr. Rinder and Ms. Remini for not rushing to fill the pause.
I’ve noticed that Mr. Rinder often leaves pauses unfilled, which seems odd until you get used to it. Complete opposite of when he was a representative of the COS and rushed to fill every milisecond of air time. The gaps of silence can be very effective, like that gutpunch clip on the 2020 show, where the camera asks him how long it’s been since he has seen his (grown) son, and he stands there in front of the Fort Harrison and calculates the time gone by, and finally answers “2004” so bleakly and tormentedly that you feel his pain.
I did wonder, though, how surreal it is for Mr. Rinder to be listening to someone tearfully describe their mistreatment by the COS, only to realize that they are referring to something that he had a hand in.
That’s exactly what I was going to comment, that you already made your apologies to these reporters. I watched a very interesting talk on youtube last night, John Sweeney in Ireland, giving a talk about Scientology. Wow! He injected a lot of humour into it, but the end result is the same. These people are dangerous. He talked and showed footage of Shawn Lonsdale, who also investigated them and had a show called cult watch. He committed suicide. Do you know anything about him Mike? I’d really like it if his investigation was part of the show. Keep fighting my friends.
Wow, OSA maybe?
You rock Mike. As always, you handle it with class too.
Mike, good response. I think most people understood there are no hard feelings and only healing/good relationships between you and the 3 journalists. They might have missed you saying you’re good friends now…. editing- ugh.
Seriously, maybe you should watch the show. It was clear Mr. Sweeney was looking for something public from you! At no point did I say this was a live taping and you must be assuming what knowledge I have because you clearly know nothing about me and to make that assumption shows ignorance on your part. That actually sounded like a dig towards me and that also shows your arrogance. It was pretty clear Mr. Sweeney was looking for a public declaration of wrongdoing and from what I watched independently on Mr. Sweeney’s situation, it clearly was warranted on that show. If he hadn’t responded as he did I would have nothing to say regarding it, but it was clear he wanted something. You would have to be daft not to have seen or heard that being you were there and all. Let’s stick to specifics, what was said beforehand means nothing in the grand scheme of things.What WAS obvious was your inability to see an opportunity to publicly apologize to this man and that seems calculating and cold.
Can only assume u r a troll and have not watched Johns panorama show about me in 2010 or anything else (including that and his wife flew from UK to attend my wedding..
Your show is amazing – and you are amazing! clearly whoever this person is has no idea how shooting a show works and clearly can’t see that you all know each other already and have all suffered together, and all made peace and come to terms long ago. Amazing! All of you – for your honesty and Sharing!
Maybe mr. Sweeney wasn’t looking for an apology but the way the conversation was edited a viewer might infer that he was. The episode didn’t give the whole background you guys now share. Just saying a viewer could get the wrong impression.
Loreen is out of line being snarky. However an on-air apology (even though not needed or have been given a long time ago) has an impact on the viewer as to how Mike now feels. Perhaps Mike could have said “I have apologized before to these guys for the things I did to them when I was in Scientology but I want to publicaly go on record for our viewing audience by saying that I am truly sorry and treasure our friendship.” That kind of a public statement is gold!
Wow Loreen, you sure are a bitch, my dear. I mean, seriously. You could at least include just a touch of self-deprecating humor. Like, for instance, the verbal equivalent of you hanging a spoon from your nose.
Did somebody fart?
I’m sorry Loreen, but I think you’re out of line. I did not see what you saw and I’m wondering why you’re so angry? I have been following Mike’s story quietly for years, and I have never thought that he was unapologetic, arrogant or unempathetic. Ever. Watch all of the interviews and documentaries he participated in and read the blogs.
Mike, I was impressed by the discussion you and Leah had with John, Mark and Tony. It was raw, it was honest and hard hitting, but respectful. I thought that it was professional, ethical, transparent and honest for John to speak of the impact that this experience had on him, yet, I did not sense that he was pointing the finger at you, yet you two were able to talk honestly about it. Bravo for that. To be able to sit with that scene and witness it was moving.
I cannot begin to understand the mixed feelings that you have experienced in the past years bit can understand the depth of them in moments like these. I appreciate you letting us into this journey with you and Leah, and allowing an honest look at your path, your decisions and the deceit you experienced while in the Church. And you don’t deserve rude and disrespectful comments.
I am interviewing for a job on Friday to work for a non for profit organization working to prevent people from joining radical movements that lead to violence (religious, political, etc). I am really excited about my interview and hope to join the organization. Stories like yours and all the ones I have been able to hear by reading your blog and watching the show are what allow me to do the type of job I do and make me want to get more involved.
I actually wondered the same question. And why resort to belittling the person for asking it? One thing to remember is so many viewers are coming to this show’s information for the first time. They, like me, go searching for more information. Then (maybe) they come on here and ask a question and they get belittled for it. Really? I guess it is my turn now. And no, I’m not a troll.
Belinda, you’re suggesting that Loreen simply asked a question and was belittled for it. Please reread her two posts, she is judging Mike harshly, accusing him of failing to “stand up and take responsibility”, and she also references his “ignorance” and “arrogance”. That’s not the behavior of someone who is genuinely searching for more information, that is the behavior of a troll.
And just a p.s., I’m a never-in who has been reading and posting on this blog for almost two years. I’ve asked questions too, and have been treated with kindness and respect by the regulars who took the time to reply to me. (But, unlike Loreen, I never posted a personal attack on Mike!)
Keep up the good work Mike,you and Leah are an inspiration to us.
Way, WAY off base, Loreen.
Loreen ……..really? Go have a long look into Mr Rinders past in Scientology and then what he has done since he ESCAPED. Have you even seen the previous episodes? You think Mike acted on his own, with ZERO monetary resources to hire PI’s, etc and orchestrated Fair Game against Scientology critics on his own? He was acting on behalf of the Church of Scientology, UNDER ORDERS and UNDER THE EFFECTS OF CULTURAL PROGRAMMING FOR DECADES. Mike Rinder is taking responsibility not for just HIS actions but for the ramifications the cult has had on thousands of victims for decades. Really? How DARE YOU? As far as I am concerned (and I am not alone) Mike Rinder has been forgiven and his actions while under the influence and mind control of the Church of Scientology have been acknowledged and he has accepted responsibility to the extent that any individual should be expected to. If Mike Rinder were to lie or attempt to cover up past actions THEN and ONLY THEN do you are anyone else have any grounds WHATSOEVER to demand accountability. This is far from the case. Mike has owned up to his past roles and he is taking responsibility far and above and beyond any other former high ranking staff member who has left has done. The fact that he keeps this venue open so former Scientologists can exchange stories, heal and compare views and discuss things that are totally off limits with the confines of the cult is a MAJOR commitment of time and resources. Go ask his wife how much this effort is costing the family in terms of resources. Go ask his wife how much time this takes away from his own family. Ask yourself this, how many times have you seen Mike Rinder answer the call from journalists and reporters to fly across the country for interviews? He does this out of a sense of decency and responsibility every god damn day. he’s doing it for not only his son and daughter but for EVERY son and daughter who is estranged and locked inside the prison of belief. Mike Rinders response to your question is polite measured and civil. I however to do feel inclined to respond in kind. Better people than Mike have committed suicide over the guilt and pain they know they caused others. Mike Rinder is doing something about. Loreen, seriously. STFU.
Welp, EVERYTHING you said I just want to hug you for, but this in particular:
“Mike Rinder is taking responsibility not for just HIS actions but for the ramifications the cult has had on thousands of victims for decades.”
THIS just nails it all for me.
THIS BLOG is my safe haven.
THIS BLOG is the ONLY place I have.
THIS BLOG is the ONLY place I feel heard, where I hear what I feel, this is the ONLY succor for me.
I can’t stand in the sunlight and wield a sword and take it all down. I can’t even ask for help. Some of us are trying to process and survive coming out while hiding. I gave the cult my life, I refuse to give it more. I know the ramifications of speaking out, of being seen. I can’t afford that yet.
Someday I’ll stand proudly behind/beside/along Mike Rinder. Until I can do that, I will offer my voice from the foxhole.
……..
I’m so thankful for Mike and all those who support him and cheer him on.
Thank you for nailing this excellent response.
I can clearly see and feel the pain Mike carries within his soul. when he stated how he “put HIS kids in there”. Watching him break down when Mary said “they (COS) OWNED me”……and the look of total “jaw dropping” seen from Leah when she heard the stories of other former members….their HEARTS are torn out.
Nothing is worse then carrying around with you your own past actions which have hurt others. There will NEVER be enough “I’m sorry”….”I apologize”…what do you want….people to grovel on the ground and crawl on their bellies and kiss someone’s ass for forgiveness”……scheeez
Loreen,
Are you serious???
I mean, seriously, are you kidding???
Television is edited in many different ways and I am sure that the footage between these 5 people was extensive. They have a LONG history with each other.
Mike has committed some sins yes. He has admitted on several different media outlets to these sins.
The most important part about all of this; his HARD and UNTIRING work at atoning for those sins.
He has subjected himself to things, non of us who are non scientologist could possibly understand. And for those who are or are former members of CoS, do. Which are pretty brutal.
In different episodes he has discussed his feelings of responsibility towards those he “fair gamed” and most importantly to his own children, who he raised in the CoS.
His apology comes not from just saying “I’m sorry”, but by writing this blog EVERY DAY. Doing many different interviews, participating in different projects and finally this show with Leah Remini. Which, quite frankly, I think he should get second billing for.
So, his sorry comes in a much more meaningful way. And be careful about making a judgement about Leah and Mike on one 45 minute piece of television. Maybe look at the thousands of hours he has used in rectifying ANY damage he has done. Which, is much more valuable.
p.s. why don’t you research what he and his family have gone through for coming forward against the CoS and then make a comment about what he has done. And maybe see what he suffered at the hands of DM.
ahhh yes….and David Miscavige has to deal with aging after a lifetime of abusing, lying, cheating, slapping, kicking, crimes against humanity – type of lifestyle as the Ecclesiastical Leader of Scientology. Wonder what will happen to his mind?
The Devil looks after his own….but sooner or later, even the Devil gets his due…..
How is this different from a cult? Is there any actual Religious services. Such as mass, bible study, prayer groups? Do they believe in the bible? Pray? Curious. Seems they call it church for tax exempt reasons but it seems more a cult like lifestyle. Barbed wire? Escape? Im confused as far as “church”.
Hi Evelyn,
Most Scientologist (public) participate weekly in one of the Church’s deeply spiritual rituals called Fundraising. During these rituals the parishioners are relieved of many of their mundane burdens such as self respect, dignity and hard earned cash. Church staff and Sea Org members are very well trained in getting people to donate money they don’t have in exchange for nothing. It’s magical. As for the rest of it, don’t feel bad about being confused. It’s a much better state than being a Scientologist in good standing.
hahaha! Thank you. *wipes tear. I needed that.
They worship the works of L. Ron Hubbard.
Such a good question!
Amazing episode Mike! I feel the frustrations of the Reisdorfs. They are brave to share the entire ordeal on TV.
Mike, I missed the last 10 minutes of the Season Finale last night due to power outage(we had snow storm in Portland). Where can I watch this episode again? Thank you and Leah for your relentless work! Yossi
Yossi, check the A&E schedule, they will be repeating the show a number of times during the week, including Sunday night at 8 p.m.
You can watch all the episodes on http://www.aetv.com
They go up on the site about 24 hours after they air.
yes…can you believe it? Lois WORKED WITH LRH all those years, they’re out and UTR for 30 odd years, and then … WHAM! Un-believable.
I believe in Christian religions the symbol of the Cross would signify God/Jesus/etc…..yet the CO$ uses this symbol with no real mention of God/Jesus/the Trinity???
If this so called 8 points are to represent their “religions tenets”…then why NOT use an OCTAGON shape to represent their so called 8 tenets of belief since CO$ doesn’t seem to be about Christianity.
Other religions uses their own type of religious symbols……so WHY does CO$ use a pretty much standard shape cross and then add additional points (for their other 4 tenets).
Is having the large Cross on the top of the CO$ buildings supposed to signify or give out an appearance to those who might be some type of Christian, that this is some type of Christian Church, since the Cross is displayed so prominently to draw people in who are unaware what type “religion” CO$ is?
Are there any “Baptisms” in CO$, as there are in other churches? I can understand a church requesting tithing but taking thousands of dollars is reprehensible, & does the Billion year CONTRACT give the Church FULL POWER over your medical care, i.e. Health /Living Will so no family makes any decisions for you?.
How does one manage to keep folks behind a barbed wire fencing enclosure, and when someone “escapes
send out their internal “hound dogs” to “capture & return people” some against their will, and not have legal issues with holding people what seems like captives.
I have been horrified by the use of a cross in such a fraudulent way. Disturbing.
I believe it’s from the Alister Crowley, the great satanist. L. Ron Hubbard Jr. said in a magazine interview , “You have to understand, my father didn’t worship Satan, he thought he was Satan.
And Hubbard was best buds ( til he stole his girlfriend!) with Jack Parsons, who was a big follower of Crowley, and he ant Hubbard had an orgy cult
That style of cross predates Crowley as an occult symbol. And Crowley was not, strictly speaking, a Satanist.
It could also be seen as the “crossed out cross” of Satanism, though. That would fit with what L. Ron Hubbard, Jr. claimed, or just with L. Ron Hubbard’s snide mocking of traditional symbols.
are we talking more modern day/ Anton LeVey type satanism, or what many think is satanism but is really devil worshiping. True Satanists don’t believe in the devil- that’s a biblical invention.
I know Jack Parsons was extremely influenced by Crowley and I think Hubbard took bits and pieces of that to find out how he could make money on the premise of having a church.
The cross has been an occult symbol since before the birth of Christ. Of course in non-Christian terms it has different meanings dependent upon the beliefs of the sect. The cross is an excellent symbol in that it is easy to make, whether of stone, cloth, or other materials, and is very economical of materials.
Christianity does not own the cross. For that matter the Romans don’t own the concept of using the cross for executions. Other civilizations from the Classical age also used it. To the best of my knowledge Christianity is the only faith which uses the cross in that specific way, and not all Christian sects feature the cross so prominently as the Catholics and Protestants do.
In the Catholic Church it seems Jesus appears on the cross to remind members that Jesus SUFFERED & “died for our sins”…other religions use a “bare cross” no figure of Jesus. Thank you for your input.
Bravo to everyone who continues to fight the good fight in exposing these criminals. It is indeed a new age for cult busting. Just a quick mention about the passing of an old friend and wonderful musician Marty Buttwinick who died yesterday of pancreatic cancer. Marty was a Scientologist to the very end, and was using a gofundme page to help with his medical expenses. Marty was one of those guys who could smell bullshit but with his large clientele and circle of friends within the cult circle, probably felt wise to keep his thoughts close to the vest. Fly free Marty, hopefully your current view of things will fill in the blanks in the story you were fed for so long.
I’ve played with Marty!
I did not know this. Thanks for letting me know.
He was a great guy!
Alanzo
+1! Me too, Doug!
Wow, I’m shocked and saddened. Marty was a good guy, great musician. We dated awhile wayyyyyyy back in the day. Man, too young to die – RIP
Mike and Leah, another great episode. I love your relationship and banter, you both have great chemistry together that comes across on camera. I loved Leah’s answer to Sweeney about his previous interview with her about the OT levels. Her answer came across as very honest and genuine, this is how we all felt when confronted with OT level questions.
And Mike it takes a very strong person to own up being on the evil side but now you are doing the right thing. Kudos to you because it’s not everyone that would be taking on the beast.
Also loved the ending at St. Patty’s lighting the candle. Can’t wait for more episodes.
When will LRH’s inglorious demise be brought up more directly and to the point?
Seems like that’s the final piece to the puzzle and most important “data point.”
Next season, maybe?
Here’s what Hubbard says in an excerpt from New Slant on Life:
———–
The true story of Scientology is simple, concise and direct. It is quickly told:
1. A philosopher develops a philosophy about life and death;
2. People find it interesting;
3. People find it works;
4. People pass it along to others;
5. It grows.
————-
The more factual story, albeit heretical, might actually and most probably be entirely different:
1. A man develops what he believes is a true science of the mind;
2. Seems to work for a few decades and its popularity grows;
3. Founder markedly deteriorates mentally and physically as he ages;
4. Attempts to take his own life to vanquish his mental demons, but fails;
5. Willfully denies going to a hospital for proper medical care during an acute stroke so he can end his life;
6. Many former adherents really can’t confront this is the way it all ended;
7. Some loyal followers continue to promote the well-worn mythology about the man;
8. So the COS continues on . . . for now.
I thought everybody knew all this already and the case was closed.
With all due respect . . . did I miss something here?
Yes FL, what you say look like the cycle which occured but the bad point was Miscavige ruled after Hubbard couldn’t anymore.
I’d add:
4.5 Hires a private doctor to shoot his ass full of Vistaril.
What I don’t understand if all the EX scientologist thought this church was so great why wouldn’t they stay?This has to tell this “so called” church (cult) and it’s people who defend it, that there IS SOMETHING TERRIBLLY WRONG with it! There are so many that were leaders that have left – does not that indicate to those who are still in it, that those who have left had a very, very strong reason for doing so? I’ve been praying for these brain washed people, and especially their children, to wake up and see things as they really are. Life is definitely too short to be separated from your own family, the only ones who love you no matter what!
This is the same nonsense that Tom Cruise was spouting when Brooke Sheilds came forward with her Post Partum Depression experience … no wonder the church of Scientology hates Psychiatry and Drug therapy. Surely, with guys like Tom Cruise promoting this insanity it can only be a matter of time before these guys are ridiculed out of existence.
I have to finish watching the show, but I did want to say something about psychology and psychiatry. First, I should qualify my remarks by saying that I did not grow up in the bubble of Scientology, but I can understand why people who have, once they are free, might think that everything on the outside is great, and that everything they were told about psychology, psychiatry and psychiatric drugs was false. Not to toot my horn, because I actually don’t have a lot of respect for academia today, but to provide further context, I have a graduate degree (with honors), and actually studied psychology, sociology and philosophy in college, so I had something against which to weigh Dianetics and Scientology.
Because of this, and my personal experience which I will describe below, I thought Hubbard was 100% right to call BS on both psychology and psychiatry (though the later “witch hunts” against invidual practitioners were silly). This was not taught to me by Scientology, but rather helped attract me to it.
As to my personal experience, I went to a psychologist after my parents’ divorce (complete waste of time and money), and after my first visit with a psychiatrist, I was convinced they didn’t know what on earth they were talking about and did not continue. The auditing I later had was definitely more beneficial, and allowed me to help reconstruct our family relationships (I know this sounds odd, given the horrible cases of disconnection). Relatives who were seeing psychiatrists for years and years did not seem to make any progress, but seemed only confirmed in their problems.
In some more serious examples, my father’s uncle was a combat veteran and when he went to the hospital complaining of physical pains, the psychiatrists got a hold of him and said he was “frustrated” by never having married. A few weeks later, he died of hepatitis which they completely missed. My sister’s dear friend had his health viciated by weekly electroshock therapy at a VA hospital (just a few years ago, not in the 1950s), until he died. There are a lot more stories like this. For every horror story in Scientology, as terrible as they are, there are probably thousands more in the “mental health” field. For this reason, I supported CCHR until it became evident that their connection to Scientology (thanks to David Miscavige) had completely “dead agented” them as well as anything written by Hubbard.
As to psychiatric drugs, I only had one personal experience. I went into emergency for a severe inner ear infection (extremely dizzy whenever I moved), so the doctor gave me something that I thought would dry up the fluid in my inner ear and give me relief. Instead, he gave me something to “slow me down” – “Ativan”, which produced one of the most horrible feelings and states of mind I ever had. When I researched it, I found out that the drug company had paid Johns Hopkins University to find as many uses for their psychiatric drug as possible (evidently a common practice), so it can be prescribed for anything from an inner ear condition to the dental chair.
But beyond my experience, one has only to listen to the potential side-effects listed at the end of commercials for anti-depressants to at least be slightly concerned. In fact, every murder-suicide in the past 30 years or so, everything from Kip Kinkel, to Phil Hartman’s wife, to Columbine, Aurora, Sandy Hook, Robin Williams, workplace shootings, the explosion of suicides among veterans being “treated”, and possibly the latest savagery at the Ft. Lauderdale airport (though we don’t know if he was on meds at this point), have involved several types of “mental health” medications such as Ritalin, Zoloft, Luvox, Prozac, etc., or sudden withdrawal from them, which is purported to be dangerous as well.
I know some people feel they have been helped by such drugs, and they should not be stigmatized for taking them, but just do the math. We have millions of people in the US taking these drugs, and if only 5% experience suicidal thoughts or aggressive behavior, coupled with the extreme ease of acquiring fire arms (I support the 2nd Amendment and am not debating that here), plus conditioning by violent tv, films and video games, that means that we have potentially thousands of ticking time bombs ready to explode. As if radical Islamist terror were not enough! I think France is actually the biggest consumer of anti-depressants on the planet, but it is a much different society in some ways.
I’m sure there are some psychologists and psychiatrists who are gifted “talk therapists”, and who can help people, but I think they are few and far between. I think in too many cases, meds become the “go to” treatment, and people are told they have a “chemical imbalance”, though I have not been able to find evidence that there is even a blood test for this. Even my MD brother-in-law, finally came around to the realization that the balance of human brain chemistry is extremely delicate, and that these meds may be actually detrimental.
In any case, I consider these drugs to be potentially the greatest public health threat we have today, but nobody seems to care. Networks receive millions of dollars in advertising from those companies, which also contribute to congressional and senatorial campaigns by the way, so not many people seem to be willing to even investigate it. I was shocked to learn in my economics class, that the government allows an acceptable “rate of death” for any product, so maybe this is considered “acceptable”. And the solution of our representatives seems to be even more access to these drugs, so if there is a link, things will get worse, not better.
I’m very glad that A&E has taken on corporate Scientology, but would they or another mainstream news organization take on such a powerful lobby as the pharmaceutical industry and investigate any possible link to the epidemic of murder-suicides in the US? I’m doubtful, but I continue to hope…
The only way that I’d shoot you on the face is if you took away my psych drugs. So, yeah, I guess you’re right: psych drugs cause violence.
You fucking muppet.
You make a good point. Death threats and insults really add to the debate.
“You fucking muppet.”
Mike Rinder – I’m afraid I don’t see the humor or the benefit in allowing this kind of post. You can tell me again I am not forced to read here. I can tell you it’s impolite to swear in public.
Hey Nickname, do like me and fuck complaining… GET EVEN!
AND … by the very wording of Espi’s insult, we see an extremely muppet-phobic remark. Now I’m not saying that Kermit is perfect, ok … let me make that clear. And maybe Miss Piggy isn’t actually a vegan … but just because they identify as puppett oriented muppets doesn’t mean they’re not people too …
Forget it, Nick, it’s the Internet.
Great contribution, Paladin. You stated the known facts.
To be accurate, I should say you stated SOME known facts.
Thanks again, marildi. Yes, SOME is accurate, just relating personal experience and observations which can be different for others.
I find it very odd that an er doc would not prescribe an antibiotic
So did I, or at least an anti-histamine. I went to the hospital later and demanded they remove the charge for the drug from my bill, which they did.
First of all, there are side effects with *all* meds…it just goes with the territory. There are many of them with the side effect of death, and they are *not* just psych drugs.
Second, you claim that all the incidents of violence can be traced back to psych meds it BS. When you make a claim like that, you need to back that up.
Psychiatry/Psychology is no more evil than dentistry or the field of pediatrics. There are good docs and bad.
Well, yeah, there are trade-offs for all drugs, but there’s no denying the reported presence of certain groups of drugs in those incidents – whether they had an effect needs to be investigated, and if so the manufacturers need to come up with drugs without those side-effects. “Suicidal thoughts” and “aggressive behaviour” should be concerning, but the FDA currently allows these. Even the Marine Corps would not take Eric Harris of Columbine because he was on Luvox. As to psychiatry, etc., yeah, there are good docs and bad, and I can’t say they are evil, but anyone can observe that a lot more meds are being prescribed and advertised mainstream than a few decades ago, and there has been an explosion in those incidents over the same period. If there’s no link, fine, but few people in government, in my experience, want to even look.
Paladin. Of course, you are right. But from zealot scientologist to zealot anti-scientologist it’s not far. Some here are extreme bainwashed anti-cult. The other side of Miscavige coin.
Yeah, I know what you mean FG, but we are all finding our way…
Paladin,
My experience with psychologists is that they’re basically decent people, but most seem to have a sense of their own impotence in solving their client’s problems, or bringing about resolutions to them.
I have at various times in my life gone to see a psychologist to ask them for their practical knowledge about social subjects such as behavior in bars or pick-up spots, and what in their opinion motivates such. I heard some guy in a bar deliberately insult a much younger woman, lewdly, and I thought it would be worth the $150 bucks to get a professional opinion that might help me understand. (I was a Scientologist at the time, but outside the church.) The Dr., a very nice lady, started acting seductive (?!), and asked me something very much like, Q: “And did this affect you personally?” A: “Well, yes, it affected me enough to book a slot with you!” Q: “And how did it make you feel?” A: “A sense of outrage and indignation, but mostly it set off a curiosity to try to comprehend how anyone could say such a thing. I thought you might be able to explain.” Q: “Tell me more about your outrage and indignation.” After twenty minutes of trying to pry answers out of her politely, I finally just laid it out that I wasn’t there for my own “counseling”, that I wanted her professional opinion on what could possibly have been going on in THAT guy’s “mind”. And she didn’t have one, and came back with another Q about me. So I actually left short of the hour, convinced I knew more than she did and had just wasted $150 bucks (and had to sort THAT out for myself). I did manage to tell her that guys like that tick me off because it makes it harder for guys like me. (Q: So I do understand that you are a “nice guy” – do you find frustration in your personal life?”) I had actually thought I might be able to get some sociological data about “people who go to bars”, maybe even some reflection on myself as a demographic, maybe some general profiles, so I might have a better idea of what I was walking into. Nope. Not even close. Believe it or not, I still keep thinking that these people must know something! Besides just asking about emotions and feelings and getting a client to talk and talk and talk until they get a stuck flow and keep going back hoping to someday get a good acknowledgement. I am sure the lady meant well.
By contrast, auditing has the Director of Processing Interview to get an idea of where the “client” is in his or her life, and there are definite parameters used to aid in that assessment. A definite auditing program is laid out, again within specific parameters, to address the major known causes of upsets or inabilities. The auditing session itself is not just “Talk to me about …”. And in my experience, either something resolves in session (and that’s usually it for the day), or more frequently, the session goes well, and is fun, and doesn’t seem like much, but getting back into the real world, thoughts start occurring, then more thoughts, and perceptions come in, of physical things, of people, I may see someone and somehow seem to have some insight into who they are, or some feeling of connection to them, and I have to smile right at them – and get a big smile back.
Behavioral psychology has some fascinating results of studies, such as one I read about where people’s eyes go when shown an intentionally diversified scene on a screen. Men look at breasts (clothed, guys, clothed), invariably, while women look at baby carriages, invariably (I think there was something like a 3% discrepancy out of 100%). True story. True study. And up to the age of two, if you put any object out of the direct line of vision of a baby, to the baby it is not “behind something”, it has “gone”, “disappeared”, “is no longer”, “it is an ex-parrot!” (Monty Python). And the studies on authoritarian pressures and peer pressures. Fascinating stuff, but it isn’t going to resolve personal inabilities or enable abilities in individuals.
I’m convinced that 25 hours of good solid auditing with no “extremely focused specific objective” would lead mostly normal people to a much brighter outlook, even people with “problems”, and would probably resolve most of what are termed neuroses, fixations, obsessions, compulsions, and so on. Depends on the auditing program, but my guess is that a lot of not-specifically-addressed problems are simply gone because the “client” has new realizations in life and thinks them through on his own, as he goes on about life. The training is a big part of it all, as well.
Thanks for relating your experience, Nickname. Very interesting, and not too surprising based on my experience too. A staff member once said to me, “Psychs are pretty good at testing, but they don’t understand what they are testing”. I think there is some truth to that.
Yeah, I would opt for good auditing any day, but not with a “3-swing FN” or other Miscavige alterations. I agree on training, and would say most of my gains came from early training, just plain ability to confront (face up to) which has gotten me through the storms of life. In any case, now I’m more interested in how I can have more compassion, more humility and be closer to God – something I find more as a Christian. But I see no reason not to have personal gains from auditing as well, if one wishes.
You’ve been visiting the CCHR! Another victim of confirmation bias. Sad, really.
You can find the data from other non-Scientology sources, reported in the news. I’m not a victim of anything.
Paladin, you know what you are talking about, and are sensible and balanced. Your comments are appreciated.
Informed and impartial posts such as yours, and Mike’s excellent presentations, are what make this blog worth reading.
Thank you, Oiram, much appreciated.
I used to think that anyone who was in a church could come and go as they please. Donate or not donate.
We used to think that we helped our fellow parishioners. I guess not.
Thank you to you and Leah and many others including finally finding “Going Clear”
Keep up the great job and spreading the word.
I’ve emailed A& E requesting information about future shows.
May God bless you and I hope you hear from your son in 2017
There is so much territory that Season 2 could cover. Really bring home the coerced abortions. Really bring home the financial manipulations, the safe pointing of local and national elected officials. The actual renting of Clearwater cops.
I would make a little light fun of Xenu and engrams and the entire pantheon of $cieno scripture, but only as some comedy relief. The only thing that is important are the actual crimes and human rights violations that occur.
Getting the last Broeker to testify would get every past and current clam watching the show. Hint, hint….
Powerful episode! How dare LRH for thinking he had the cure for psychosis. I truly believe he was mentally ill. Damn $cn for thinking they could replace medical care with their ideas ie: RD.
Glad to know Brandon received the medical care he needed. Bless him.
Having a family member diagnosed with bipolar and watching the very real symptoms of this disease I know it can be successfully treated.
Outstanding journalism by John , Tony and Mark. Decade’s of tireless reporting the truths of CoS. While being harassed and having their personal safety at risk. IMO deserves Pulitzer Prize recognition.
To be continued……….hope and pray the impenetrable walls of $cn will soon be bulldozed down. Can’t hardly wait for next Tuesdays episode.
Thank you Mike for all your hard work. Thank you Leah for all your hard work.
You are heroes!!
LRH’s eventual treatment for his own psychosis was Vistaril, an anti-anxiety drug. It was being administered by Dr. Denk and was in his system after he died (per San Luis Obispo County Coroner). Doesn’t say much for the Introspection Rundown, eh?
What was LRH’s psychosis? TIA
Thank you for the information Gus. So shocked, NOT, Elron didn’t go thru IRD!
As a former Jehovah’s Witness who hasbeen out for quite awhile, l thank you, Mike, Leah and A&E for this expose. I truly believe and hope it helps pave the way to the examination and consequent destruction of ALL the dangerous mind controling, money hungry, family destroying cults of BS that are in existance today. May you keep up this most important work. The fight has just begun and you have strength in numbers on your side. Love you al.l
As I’m an X JW as well , I’ve been riveted by these events as well.
Some things are simular in many religions except not allowing you to see your family. This we both can relate to.
May the force continue with you Mike and Leah!
Cathy and wendy, it seems to me that Scientology and the witnesses share a few things: the witnesses call it shunning and Scientology calls it disconnection. Either way, it’s fucked up. And both organizations hide and protect child rapist in their midst to guard against bad PR. They deserve each other.
For reasons delightfully exposed by Mike on the show, scientology hates psychiatry but ironically psychiatry is not a competitor of scientology. Psychiatry treats people with serious mental problems while scientology does not, will not and cannot. That’s right, the great breakthrough in knowledge of the mind can’t do NUTHIN about a long list of clinical psychiatric disorders except of course to deny they exist. Numerous police records over the decades indicate that approach yields unpromising results.
Scientology is for people who want “wins”, who want to climb the spiritual status ladder and go around helping their lessors with locationals and platitudes. Scientology can make average people feel superior to other average people but it’s useless for those who need help maintaining their sanity. Those poor souls are disqualified from receiving the powerful “tech” for the reason that they need actual results not dazzling pseudo-technological double-talk.
I recently watched David Miscavige’s entire interview with Ted Koppel. And he said something to that effect, that Scientology is not for those with mental disorders, but those who are already mentally stable yet want to improve their lives (and Tom Cruise had the gall to call out Brooke Shields for using anti-depressants years later). The message I got from DM saying that is basically they want normal, typical people in Scientology………who actually have money to give to the church. What this so-called “church” is about is all now becoming abundantly “Clear” (pun most definitely intended).
As long as they have the money, they’ll take ANYONE. They don’t give a shit.
My boyfriend and I were approached on Hollywood Blvd in 1972 to take the free personality test. I wasn’t yet 18, so they only allowed him to take the test. He later told me that they went on and on about the wonderful things Scientology could do to improve his life…until they found out he was a broke, unemployed 19-year-old who couldn’t afford services, then, boom, thank you and get out! Very obvious from the start it was all about the money.
Just when you think the Leah and Mike show can’t get any better, the next installment is even better than the last. I felt so good watching the three journalists interviewed. John Sweeney was so powerful in what he said and how he said it. Tony and Mark Bunker were great also. I was glad to see Mark Bunker trimmed his beard up a bit and looked good. I am so thankful for Mike and Leah and what they are doing. jWhat a great job! Here is a suggestion:
Have A&E put up your own disclaimer that airs before or after commercial breaks or at the first and end of the show just like Scn has their own disclaimer with their web site listed on it. Get your OWN DISCLAIMER with YOUR WEB SITE address for your site, Mike. That way they can read today’s article where more cases of psychotic disasters in the church can be found. People need to go to the links and read about Lisa McPherson, Ellie Perkins, and all the others you list. So let word get out via your own printed thing on the show. The church gets way too much exposure to their web site just because they’re too chicken to send a real person to be interviewed. Cut down on the church written disclaimer and put up your own so that the truth about deaths as a result of the Introspection R/D in the church can be known.
Mike
How do I find out if there is a Scientology center in my living area and seeing what they do to people w mental illness is horrid. What if you are a homosexual? Would you be declared by the church? Great show. Keep fighting
Kim. Go to their site. There is a drop down menu for your question
It depends on how much money you have and whether you are a celeb or not! If you answer no to either one then the outcome is likely yes!
From the LRH Reference on the Introspection Rundown: “The key is WHAT CAUSED THE PERSON TO INTROSPECT BEFORE THE PSYCHOTIC BREAK.”
The Reisdorf son said that what set off his break was the church making his brother disconnect from him and the family. In a similar case, a Scn family was told to disconnect from their son, Nick. He took it so hard that he would never see either of his parents again, that he called them saying he had an gun and was going to commit suicide with it. Luckily the dad got there quickly enough to stop the suicide attempt. But what triggered his psychotic break, again, was Disconnection from his family.
It needs to be brought out that the church’s own actions are what are causing psychotic behavior in some parishoners or ex parishoners and it traces back in many cases to the Disconnection policy the church pushes on its people.
Google Scientology and your city. I did and was shocked!
Mike, you and Leah are to be congratulated for creating a hit series on such a difficult subject. I agree with one of today’s comments that the series was more effective because you two are not ‘polished’ steely-eyed interviewers twice removed from the subject matter and miles above the ‘victims’. The series rings true and elicits emotional involvement BECAUSE you both bare your own emotions and tears.
Then, rather than wallow in it all, you get back on point and even provide the occasional humorous relief.
I like your analogy that Scientology is like slowly boiling the frog. If they told us at the door that they will be asking for all of our money, and our loyalty and devotion – above even our own family, and that they will harass and harangue us into obeying, then of course we would not have crossed the threshold.
You and Leah are terrific.
When I think about Scientology, what comes to mind is Tom Cruise jumping on Oprah’s couch and proclaiming his love for Katie Holmes and the interview with Matt Lauer. What craziness! I’ve watched several of the series episodes but the one that disturbed me the most was the last one. I felt physically sick to my stomach. How does our government allow this “church” to continue? I would think that brainwashing and aversive techniques to control people were illegal in this country but I guess if you have enough money you can do anything you want. Money = power and that cult has plenty of it. You and Leah MUST keep up the fight and bring this thing to an end. I pray for those who have been devastated by this. May God heal them.
You’ve done a fantastic job Mike hooking up with Leah and doing what you’re doing. I’ve learnt more in the last month or so and have come to appreciate and understand more of the tricky inner workings of the “tech/policy” than I would have dreamed possible a couple of years ago.
It strikes me as relatively obvious now that Hubbard not only walked a fine line, or what he liked to refer to as a ‘narrow path’ but he had no idea that he fell off it decades ago. For the briefest of moments back in the 80s I met a number of old timers who were happy with their lot in Scientology, had lives, families, careers etc and were inspiring, they did the old OT5&7 but called it quits after that. They did however, know precisely when to get out of Scientology. Unfortunately I never appreciated their disappearing nor took it as an omen of things to come at that time.
I’m not saying back then it was all workable etc but I am saying Hubbard played both ends against the middle more and more as he researched himself insane. He was addicted to self-auditing and made a obsessive passion out of ‘having to be the only one’ and had to come up with more and more breakthroughs to keep the spotlight on him. For me one of his major errors was attempting and insisting on the concept of ‘standard’. His own early fundamentals written into all his books say that is impossible, yet he insisted it was. Then his insistence of keeping it simple… geezers what a fuck up he made of that. As a result based activity the Church of Scientology is a complete sham, exampled by the question, “just what do you get for your money with Scientology?”
However, what is done is done but the war is not over, the truth is now becoming a weary veteran with major campaigns still ahead of it for us to rid of the Scientology organisation. You and Leah are the vanguard of something very special, best of luck.
I went to Scientologys counter site for the A & E show to see the responses and rebuttals. As a long time member I had to laugh derisively. It is the biggest pack of lies and BS one could possibly conjure up. In particular I love there specific responses to critics questions.
“WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO CANNOT AFFORD TO MAKE DONATIONS FOR SERVICES?
There is a Free Scientology Center in Churches of Scientology where those who cannot afford to donate may receive auditing without donation. There are also books and free public lectures, Sunday services and other religious gatherings for which there is no requested donation. Scientology books may be obtained at almost any local lending library. Scientology Volunteer Ministers are also on call 24/7, 365 days a year, to minister to those in need. Further, any member of the public may even participate in free online correspondence courses, which include all materials and technology contained in the Scientology Handbook.”
This from their website. What a f–king lie. Scientology is achieving “death from a 1000 cuts” that they are administering to themselves.
Thank you Leah and Mike for exposing the truth. And to all those interviewed, you are appreciated for telling your stories.
“WHAT ABOUT THOSE WHO CANNOT AFFORD TO MAKE DONATIONS FOR SERVICES?
There is a Free Scientology Center in Churches of Scientology where those who cannot afford to donate may receive auditing without donation. There are also books and free public lectures, Sunday services and other religious gatherings for which there is no requested donation.”
Double Bullshit on that. You cannot even get briefed on what $cientology is doing about anything without someone demanding $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ from you.
Yo Dave,
I have something I’ll give you for free good buddy………….
Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!! Now that’s some funny shit!!! Whew, tears in my eyes from laughing. Wait……what???? They were actually serious??? Bwahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha. Now that’s some extra funny shit!
I would imagine someone on the CO$ Free Scientology Center ASKS to see your previous Income Tax Returns…….
One of my friend’s daughter wanted her son Baptized in their local Catholic Church where they had recently moved to……they ASKED to see their Income Tax Return from the PREVIOUS year….
The usual name for The Free Scientology Center is … “Joining staff.”
Ha, and then they pull the football away and instead of getting your courses in exchange for slavery, you just become a slave! With the exception of the auditors, Staff and SO are the LEAST trained scientologists.
I keep saying, how can they clear the planet if they can’t even clear the damned Sea Org?
Been there done that, bought.
My brother needed mental health help, but didnt get it. Suicide at 19 ? coulda, shoulda, wouldya… it is dangerous to make people fear the science of psychology and the general practice of psychiatry. Sure they are not perfect, but they are designed to HELP and often they provide relief to people in need. More than scientology does, on many occasions. This is a very real issue with scn culture, in my opinion.
My heart goes out to you Liz. My own brother was diagnosed at 17 with mental illness, bipolar, schizophrenia, manic etc. When he TAKES his prescribed anti psychotic pills he is “normal”…..when he is not monitored by medical professionals or a “guardian” who GIVES him his pills daily, he does NOT take them and then he begins to “hear the voices” and spirals downward. He’s been mentally ill since he was 17 years old, he’s been in and out of psychiatric hospitals his entire life (if that’s what you can call what he has been through) and it’s been an up and down roller coaster ride. .
Of course as family members we’ve all be “along for the ride” and it’s not been a pleasant journey.
I didn’t think I could cry as much as I did after seeing every episode Leah & Mike and A & E presented to us……., but when I saw Brandon’s story the floodgates opened. . What a courageous young man he is. I am SURE that now that Brandon’s story IS out there, someone will offer this lovely young man a great opportunity of employment.
Hang in there Brandon, you are tougher than you know. I wish his family well who lovingly support him in his battle to stay mentally and physical healthy.
Leah, Mike and everyone else who has stepped forward with your own personal stories……none of this is easy, but I commend you for your bravery and send my love and Hugs to all!
Liz, I’m very, very sorry for your loss.
Hi Mike,
I am very interesting to know the situation of Scientology and Sea Org in Europe (If I am correct, there is a headquater based in London). How do they menage it? What is happening up there? Especially, all the recent justice cases in France and Belgium. As far as I know Eric Roux so called “The Minister of Church of Scientoly” seems to be the only spokesman for francophone scientologists.
Thank you.
Something I’ve had experience with. My favorite way of ensuring my communication has been received is sending by FedEx signature required. Sure, someone in the office signs for it, but it is more likely to get attention than email and some other forms.
Just received a response last week from a disrelated communication to an incoming cabinet member.
Mike,
I have a question. In my study of comparative cults, whenever a single leader gets that much power, like LRH and Miscaivage, there has always been some type of sexual immorality/abuse perpetrated by the leader. Has that been the case with the leaders of Scientology?
Certainly with Miscavige he talks about sex in a disgusting manner often. Taunting people. Making fun of them etc etc. But I have no knowledge of physical sexual abuse on his behalf. No information about Hubbard other than what is covered in Barefaced Messiah and other places.
My bet – Miscavige is impotent and can’t get it up. He hates children, hates sex, hates people – what did LRH say about someone like that?
He can always afford a 500 mg blue pill ………….. assuming His heart is big enough to handle it.
Yeah, but, 3 inches just doesn’t make it…
Reckon there’s two people who’d know – Shelly and TC. No wonder Shelly has been disappeared and Miscavige has TC’s folders.
Newcomer, Idle Morgue, and I Yawn: my idols, saying what so many have thought, but did not have the nerve.
Indicators of Human Trafficking
From the United States Department of Homeland Security’s (DHS) Blue Campaign website talking about Indicators of Human Trafficking at https://www.dhs.gov/blue-campaign/indicators-human-trafficking
Some of the indicators on DHS’s own website are copied verbatim and are as follows (with my comments in parentheses, based on my very limited “never-in” understanding):
A) Does the person appear disconnected from family, friends, community organizations, or houses of worship? (without a doubt, and DHS even uses the term “disconnected”)
B) Has a child stopped attending school? (even though The Ranch has now been shuttered, there are plenty of other “schools” you might want to check out to make sure they’re up to the educational standards you expect from all students)
C) Has the person had a sudden or dramatic change in behavior? (I would imagine this to be the case for most every new Sea Org member)
D) Is the person disoriented or confused, or showing signs of mental or physical abuse? (you have plenty of public testimony regarding the physical and mental abuses of one David Miscavige in particular)
E) Is the person fearful, timid, or submissive? (without a doubt, this is what keeps most all of them, Sea Org member or public Scientologist, “in line”, due to the fear of disconnection and being submissive by simply going along with the church’s wishes/orders in order to keep their family intact)
F) Does the person show signs of having been denied food, water, sleep, or medical care? (go check out people who are currently living, or to be more precise, “imprisoned” in the Hole on Int Base or on the RPF)
G) Is the person often in the company of someone to whom he or she defers? Or someone who seems to be in control of the situation, e.g., where they go or who they talk to? (look at the wife of this so-called church’s own “Ecclesiastical Leader” at her last public appearance at her father’s funeral in 2007)
H) Does the person appear to be coached on what to say? (oh dear Lord, HELL yes!)
I) Is the person living in unsuitable conditions? (perhaps you should take the local/state department of public health into the Hole to do an inspection and get back to me)
J) Does the person lack personal possessions and appear not to have a stable living situation? (google “Bohemian Rhapsody musical chairs” and let me know if it appears that many of these individual’s living situations would be considered “stable”)
K) Does the person have freedom of movement? Can the person freely leave where they live? Are there unreasonable security measures? (again, you really need to check out the Hole at Int Base to get answers to these questions…..that is, if they will even let you in due to the “unreasonable security measures” at the Int Base)
DHS, FBI, et al, I am a tax-paying citizen who continues to pay for your existence (just so you know, this so-called “church” pays no taxes, so you don’t work for them), and I am positive that you now have quite a few indicators from the public testimonies of many, many, many American citizens (and others around the world).
And as an added bonus, you have no statute of limitations on human trafficking to worry about. Just take a look at the relatively few public testimonies from Mike’s and Leah’s A&E show and other documentaries/interviews (and there are countless other untold stories by former members) and the preliminary evidence you can acquire from these individuals that, in very least, warrants an investigation.
As the mission statement of DHS states, “With honor and integrity, we will safeguard the American people, our homeland, and our values.” So do your job and investigate these claims made by the ever-growing number of former Scientologists and put an end to the abuses towards many American citizens (and others) that you have pledged to safeguard. If you just keep standing on the sidelines as this church keeps hiding behind the first amendment, then it’s obvious to me that you have no honor and no integrity, and are just as culpable as this church by enabling them to continue to devastate and destroy the lives of those you have sworn to serve, defend, and protect.
Wow, Mick! Well said!
Thanks missziss. Just starting to get frustrating seeing good people have their lives destroyed and the agencies we depend upon (and pay for) not doing anything. Perhaps they are and we just don’t know it (it’s not like they would publicly announce they were investigating someone and alert them to that). Maybe wishful thinking…….but hopefully not.
I think about Clare Headley having to take someone WITH her to be able to go for her Eye Dr appt…..why can’t she go alone (that answer is apparent).
What Church hunts down Parishioners like they are escaped prisons and returns them to “the fold”…….if a person has voluntarily LEFT the compound without “permission”….what right do they have to come after them and “suggest” they return?
Yes, Claire Headley’s eye appointment is yet another great example of how there always seems to be someone watching you. Seeing this happen to folks who appear to be really great people (like Marc and Claire) makes this whole situation infuriating.
Hopefully A&E will continue with another season or ten, until this so-called “churches” finally collapses in upon itself and many people can begin the slow, yet hopeful, process of actually reconnecting with their families…..and others can simply get on with their lives. CoS wants Leah to just move on with her life? Then shut your doors and I’m sure she will.
Reminds me of something funny someone said here (I wish I could take credit for this):
Scientology will officially be over when the last two Scientologists write KRs on each other.
That just struck my funnybone for some reason.
Bang on!
In response to the Human Trafficking issue – go on over to Tony Ortega’s Underground Bunker – he just interviewed an FBI agent who cancelled her appearance at a CoS event – geared towards human trafficking – yep they actually were going to host an event on that very subject.
Her responses to Tony’s questions are very interesting
http://tonyortega.org/2017/01/08/talking-to-the-fbi-agent-who-cancelled-her-talk-at-scientologys-mecca/
I certainly hope this doesn’t mean that this is the end of this exposure
Not by any means
Mike, I want to comment but only can figure out how to by replying to yours. I love the show and what you and Leah are doing to expose this. My question is my understanding of the definition of “church” is that it is a place of Christian worship. What does Scientology worship? Do scientologists believe in God, Jesus Christ and the Trinity? I am just confused why they call themselves a church. Again, love the show, you both are doing a great job. All your stories are so sad.
They call themselves a church because then L Ron Hubbard’s delusional ideology and claims of healing cannot be prosecuted because of religious protection.
Scientology does not address God in any meaningful way
Scientology worships L Ron Hubbard and his writings as infallible.
L Ron Hubbard has called Jesus a pedophile that was subject to rage and anger.
L Ron Hubbard hated Christianity and Christ.
On the first OT 8 level released in the eighties, that people have verified they read, L Ron Hubbard claims himself to be the Anti-Christ that was foretold in revelations.
L Ron Hubbard was a crazy person who had a very keen highly creative intelligence who was trying to rid his body of space aliens until the end of his life.
The only similarity to other religious practices is that they believe that the soul exists Independent of the body and that we have lived before.
That is about the only similarity.
Scientology in essence is a:
Delusional Metaphysical Freudian Therapy that rapes your capacity to reason and tell the difference between what is real and unreal.
L Ron Hubbard heard space aliens talking to him and he taught his students to do the same.
The highest therapy in Scientology is to find space aliens and clusters of space aliens in our bodies.
Scientologists spend years and years and years trying to exorcise trapped space aliens from their bodies.
My x wife went crazy doing this and became a homeless street er to be seen again.
Scientology is not a real religion. It is a con from a delusional loon who garnered enough authority Altitude to convince his subjects that he was something special.
When Scientologists tell you how great Scientology helped them, they say it like that help could have never happen from any other self help therapy.
L Ron Hubbard WAS a narcissistic megalomaniacal nut job with a great skill at communicating fallacious scientism.
It is the real help, that Scientologists get in the beginning of the “bridge” that sticks them in the hope of continued help.
It is a trap. A trap carefully designed by Ron to secure paying costumers.
Here are excerpts from the original OT8 materials that Miscavige changed because even he thought it was too weird.
THIS FIRST PARAGRAPH IS WHERE RON CLAIMS TO BE THE ANTI CHRIST FROM REVELATIONS
“No doubt you are familiar with the Revelations section of the Bible where various events are predicted. Also mentioned Is a brief period of time in which an arch-enemy of Christ. reforred to as the anti-Christ, will reign and his opinions will have sway. All this makes for very fantastic, entertaining reading but there is truth in it. This anti-Christ represents the forces of Lucifer (literally, the “light bearers” or “light bringer”), Lucifer being a mythical representation of the forces of enlightenment, the Galactic Confederacy. My mission could be said to fulfill the Biblical promise represented by this brief anti-Christ period. During this period there is a fleeting opportunity for the whole scenario to be effectively derailed. which would make it impossible for the mass Marcabian landing (Second Coming) to take place. The Second Coming is designed, among other things, to trigger a rapid series of destructive events.”
AND THIS NEXT PARAGRAPH IS WHERE RON CLAIMS JESUS WAS A PEDOPHILE.
“For those of you whose Christian toes I may have stepped on, let me take the opportunity to disabuse you of some lovely myths. For instance, the historic Jesus was not nearly the sainted figure has been made out to be. In addition to being a lover of young boys and men. he was given to uncontrollable bursts of temper and hatred that belied the general message of love, understanding and other typical Marcab PR. You have only to look at the history his teachings inspired to see where it all inevitably leads. It Is historic fact and yet man still clings to the ideal. So deep and insidious is the biologic implanting.”
Ron apologists will claim this is not Ron’s writings. The I have spoken to a number of nice people who have actually took this original course.
Ron apologists will counter my claim. That is because they are really too embarrassed to admit that Ron was a loon.
Yet….. those same Ron apologists believe that their bodies are inhabited with space aliens.
Scientology destroys your capacity to reason. It completely destorts your sense of right and wrong.
KEEP YOUR CHILDREN OUT OF THIS……….
THING!
You can read the entire looney tunes here. Your WTF meter will simply smoke the needle.
http://www.lermanet.com/cisar/russia/ot8.htm
Fascinating. Corroborated?
“I will return not as a religious leader but a political one”. Yeah well in the end the religious leader thing didn’t work out too well did it. Maybe he’s inhabited Trump.
Yes Martin, it was verified. This is the thread on Marty’s blog I started. A few who took that version of OT8 chimed in.
https://markrathbun.wordpress.com/2013/07/03/dangerous-thoughts/#comment-271435
Becky, first of all, welcome! As to commenting without replying to someone else, you can scroll to the bottom of the page to write your own comment.
As for your point about the definition of “church”, I actually looked up the definition (http://www.dictionary.com/browse/church) and it actually is mostly about Christianity (separation of church and state being the most open-ended definition). Judaism has synagogues/temples, Islam has mosques, Christianity has churches, etc. So them calling themselves a “church” actually doesn’t make sense, as you mentioned.
I do not mean to offend your beliefs. Christianity is a very great religion, and its tenets are, in my opinion, true – even if subject to interpretations.
As a Scientologist outside the Co$, this has been one of my “harp-on” things. Scientology proper, the data, philosophy, and practice, focuses on man as a spiritual being with an “afterlife”, just as all three of the world’s greatest religions do. Scientology focuses on improving the nature of a spirit, a being, reaching for higher levels of awareness. Scientology focuses on the nature of Creation, to study and learn about life and the individual’s tole in it and relationship to it all. It sounds nuts for me to say this in light of what the current “leadership” of the Co$ is doing, but the impetus is towards greater understanding and benevolence, even to love in the many Christian senses. It is left to the individual to discern his relationship to God, or the Creator, or Eternity. All of this makes Scientology, the data, the philosophy, and the practice, the purest religion on Earth. Some would argue that it has no Faith, no prescribed worship of belief. It has one: that man is basically good. (Hubbard’s sense of humor is vastly underappreciated.)
The problem with the Co$ is about that same as it was with the Catholic church, in the views of some: a monopoly in sore need of being trust-busted.
Scientology teaches that all human beings are filled with trapped space aliens and that is the highest auditing.
Do yo believe this?
There is not one religion that teaches this.
Doesn’t the Old Testament in the Holy Bible contain some passages referring to what could be called the BT’s only it calls them the “Bo Diddlies from Outer Space”? Yeah, they’re a real mess or am I thinking about something I saw while I was tripping on mescaline? Never mind.
As far as I can tell, they worship a bad science fiction writer who was diagnosed by at least one mental health professional as “schizophrenic with delusions of grandeur” (boy howdy). Like Hubbard, Miscavige seems to worship only money and the power it gives him to dictate how others live.
Church is also defined as, “ecclesiastical organization, power, and affairs, as distinguished from the state:”
All your questions have been answered by this site and many others concerning Scientology and their “faith”. A simple search will reveal all.
Christians don’t have exclusive use of the word Church, but it mostly refers to them in general use.
Thank you Mike, Leah, A&E and crew. Amazing series.
One of my beefs with the church of scientology is the fact that it does have something to do with the mind and in fact, can cause mental abuse and damage with its “tech,” such as this Introspection Rundown and the church’s use of sec checks. Thank you for shining a light on this in the episode last night. Yet another reason to take this church’s “tech” out of the realm of a “religion.”
Another thing I REALLY liked about this episode was when Sweeney talked about how he’s investigated and written about Saddam Hussein, been to and written about North Korea and then of course, the church of scientology and then pointed out how none of these went after him to destroy him like the church of scientology. I can hear Sweeney, Tony and Bunker testifying now before a Congressional Hearing as to this vile group’s tactics.
It’s time this was no longer a dream of mine and so many others. It’s time that a Congressional Hearing became the church of scientology’s nightmare.
I second that!
Still tracking down this episode. Glanced at the comments. Really interesting. Time zones and such dictate I do that later.
Keep this conversion open please Mike. Gotta get to it later!
I love seeing so many new people commenting. As a side-note:
To all fairly new to this valuable blog, I’ve searched around for interesting articles that support this blog and the Aftermath series.
I think this one is interesting from a previous blog. It sort of points at the Aftermath, written apparently before Going Clear.
https://backincomm.wordpress.com/2015/02/12/the-great-divide/
History is being made with this documentary series thanks to Leah and Mike. Thank you all for producing this epic presentation that has captured the interest of so many people. I pray that there are further episodes to come exposing what this cult has tried to keep secret for so long.
I must say – I have some BPC on the word “epic”
LOL
Haha, I try to keep the exclamation point count down, too!! (whew, I hadda knock a few off, there)
Mike – Why do families put themselves in these situations? Don’t they know what they are getting into (disconnection) if they decide to leave the phony church? I feel horrible for you and everyone who still has family in there. Who would sign such a thing you can never get out of knowing that if you leave your family will turn against you.
Also, have you ever apologized to the people you harrassed so relentlessly for all of those years?
I am happy you are out and living a better life but you were pretty ruthless to some people no?
I got this one….
Go back and watch every A&E episode, read every article of Mike’s blog from the beginning, (comments too) read about the same of Tony Ortega, watch “Going Clear”, read up on the books – Piece of Blue Sky, Bare Faced Messiah, Beyond Belief, Secrets of Scientology, Blown for Good.
Then come back and give us an updated post.
I’ve got a little basket of crows on my lap. You can pick the smallest one to eat if you like.
(it’s not a short job to explain how people get sucked in, why they stay, and how they get out. Many courageous people have put their lives on the line to tell. The above assignment will also tell you the price they pay)
” Also, have you ever apologized to the people you harrassed so relentlessly for all of those years?
I am happy you are out and living a better life but you were pretty ruthless to some people no?”
Are you for real Peter or is this the new and improved version of OSA Trolling? If it is the former I suggest you take a time out and do some more study.
TA, chunks, not grains! LOL
MIKE RINDER’S HAIR IS ON FIRE!!!
Thank you very much, Mike, for highlighting the mental health tragedies which come as a direct result of allowing Scientology to deliver unlicensed mental health services. The many tragedies such as Ellie Perkins and others are just horrible, and why mental health agencies continue to do nothing to protect the public from Scientology’s unlicensed, and too often dangerous, practices is beyond me.
But they do. And the tragedies stack up.
Do you think that the Poodle Boy actually sees the legal liabilities of continuing to deliver Dianetics and Scientology “services”, and this is why the Class 8 course, the Briefing Course, and so many other “services” are no longer offered by Scientology?
Getting Scientologists to pay for buildings is a lot less dangerous to the organization than getting them to pay for their Bridges – don’t you think?
Keep up the great work. I know you have LOTS of things you can reveal about Scientology now that you have achieved an audience of millions, and I can’t wait to see what else you have to reveal to the world about Scientology.
I know that you are just getting started.
Alanzo
“… Class 8 course, the Briefing Course, and so many other “services” are no longer offered by Scientology?”
When did these training courses go away? I have been out for years, but still kept a causal eye on the COS activities (more so since Going Clear, the movie). Former Class VI, former OTVII v1.1
Great series I really hope there is a season 2.
The BC and Cl. VIII courses are not being delivered and haven’t been for a while (at least a couple of years, I think).
Miscavige is busy fixing LRH’s fuckups, you know. Little Davey, tech expert, thinks there’s something wrong with those courses even though they are the same as LRH delivered himself, personally. I think He’s going to add a drill where you slap your PC.
You could walk into ASHO (key letters being S for Saint and H for Hill) and try to sign up for the Saint Hill Special Briefing Course and you’d get a dumb stare. Then the angry IAS reg bitch in the satin jacket will accost you and take the money you wanted to spend on training (and whatever more you have banked and in credit). ASHO delivers lower bridge stuff now. Crazy.
It’s astounding that none of the sheep seem to realize that it is, by Scientology standards anyway, a massive suppressive act not to be delivering those courses. Talk about tech degrades! Talk about out-KSW!!
Thankfully, I haven’t given a shit about any of that shit for a long time. But those who do give a shit should take heed: ASHO’s gone to shit.
Easy on the “Poodle” comments, Alanzo – please.
My family breeds them and we have a shit ton of them. Smartest dogs on the planet.
Do they bark and wear their hair like David Miscavige does?
Alanzo
While not a poodle fan personally, I can also attest to their intelligence.
That is why every breed on earth has been crossed with them (the Doodle explosion)
Goldendoodles, Labradoodles, Maltipoos, Aussiedoodles)
Google it…..it’s interesting to see the results of the combinations
The grandmother of my best childhood friend had a poodle called Happy. Happy was the nastiest, meanest dog in the neighborhood. Happy is the reason I have had a lifelong dislike of poodles (though I admire thier intelligence)
The one thing that I’d like to see a future or even writings on, and I’d appreciate some links or leads is on the actual bio of L. Ron Hubbard. I mean, I’ve learned about the crazy philosophies and what he created but what I want to know is the HOW. How did he decide to create Scientology? Was he picked on in the Navy? Did he have self-esteem issues? Was his childhood terrible? I think knowing a bit about his background might solidify and put the puzzle pieces together as to why Scientologists even think of him as a god in the first place.
L Ron Hubbard was mentally ill. He was a nut job! He kept it cleverly masked. L Ron Hubbard attached himself, like a parasite, to people with money, energy, ideas and fame .
Hubbard used rhetorical writing skills and mind control methods to enslave people and then he sucked them dry of their money, manipulated them in working for him for free and then sucked the living life out of his followers.
Now mentally ill David Miscavige is doing the same thing.
It is much like Hitler, Stalin etc.
A clear understanding Idle Morgue. You’ve drawn back the curtain of make believe and found the truth.
Ron WAS a hypnotic operator per his writing Altitude Instruction.
Here’s a good place to start for his naval record:
https://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Cowen/warhero/contents.htm
Alanzo
Susan Oser, look up Bare Faced Messiah at holysmoke.org
Mike – It’s well known that the FBI and other governmental agencies have investigated the CofS, but I’m curious as to how they are doing it. I think the FBI should send in plants with the task of working there way up to the top, just like the DEA does with drug dealing gangs/cartels, perhaps they are doing this now? Just get in there and infiltrate as far inside the CofS as possibly to gather intelligence. Also, when is Hollywood going to make a full feature, high budget film about the CofS? I think that would be fascinating, since there are no shortages of real life stories that are more than scary enough to be made into a movie. Maybe Tom Cruise could play the lead role…or just play himself as a brainwashed celebrity member, lol. Just want to let you know that my wife and I are the biggest fans of the show and have told many friends and family about it and they are now big fans. I hope ultimately that the intended reasons for having the show, come to fruition and ruin the CofS once and for all, or at least cripple it badly.
Hollywood did. It is called The Master by Paul Thomas Anderson. They do not call it scientology in the movie, but anybody that knows the history of the church or watched interviews with the director knows it is about the early days of Dianetics and LRH.
Nice to see Xenu get a mention, thanks to John Sweeney. So, no complaints from me about the show, none at all. Not even a wee quibble.
MOAR!!11!!
Mike & Leah, Thank you so much for exposing Scientology for what it is. It will be a very long time before my heart can feel less pain for all the victims, but especially the twin brothers’ story. Heartbreaking.
We have two “Cindy” people commenting here. I am a long-time commenter who came out on Mike’s site in Jan 2014. I am guessing the other Cindy is a newcomer to the site? Let’s figure out how to differentiate between the two Cindy’s here.
How about Original Cindy for you?
LAUGHING OUT LOUD!
Been watching the show. I’m a never in but went down the rabbit hole in 2012 when Katie & Tom blew up. What the two of you are doing is phenomenal. Don’t stop! These people are beyond wicked. Anything to stop them. You, Leah, Tony have the biggest brass balls I’ve ever seen, keep going!
Mike,
As has been said by many others here, you and Leah are doing a wonderful job. You’ve asked for suggestions…
1) Do an interview with Kate Bornstein, and further talk about the treatment of LBGT people in Scientology.
2) Talk about the COS and its attitudes towards blacks.
3) Talk about the lawsuitathon that the COS put the IRS through including interviews with IRS sttaffers who were involved in the craziness.
4) Do in depth coverage of the Monique Rathbun lawsuit. While Monique and Mark may not want to be involved, I have no doubt that you and Leah can find a lawyer capable of explaining the suit, the filings, and the rulings in layman’s terms. Especially important are all the admissions by the church about their actions.
As to the comments about Leah’s interviewing style, ignore them. Leah comes across as a regular person, not some super smooth newsie. This is a huge plus. Huge. Leah with her shock and anger is what is convincing people that this show is real, not Honey Boo .
Boo. Your contribution as a high up insider, confirming things that she’s hearing seals the deal.
If it was only one if you doing the show, it wouldn’t be effective. The two of you combined are devastating.
I really wish I could read David Miscavige’s mind right now!
This example of Hubbard’s “research” methodology tells one all they need to know about his “science of the mind” and scientology (knowing how to know).
It is COMPLETE quackery all the way through. (excepting isolated bits he took from others) Donald Duck was less of a quack than Hubbard.
Hubbard not even close to Donald Duck…
Well, maybe Donald’s uncle OSD. 😉
Tonight’s show was particularly heartbreaking for me to watch. As the parent of a child struggling with bipolar disorder, Brandon’s story tugged at my heart. It’s hard to even imagine my daughter going through what he did, let alone anyone else’s child.
Mike, for every story you and Keah are able to tell on the show I’m certain there are far more that you don’t have the time to incorporate. I’d really like to help. What is the best way to reach out, in your opinion, to people who want to go on record with their story? I would like to dedicate time on my podcast each week to giving people a platform to tell their experiences.
Hi Mike,
Just read that there are only about 25,000
Scientologists in this country. Can this be possible? I thought there were many more.
Love the show, can’t wait for each show.
Wow – great news that you and Leah will be talking to lawyers. Way to go!
I don’t think the show adequately explained the Introspection Run Down. For one thing, if you applied that “tech” to a sane person long enough, it would likely drive them insane. In America, we keep a lot of prisoners in isolation, with no human contact for days, weeks, months or years on end. It’s extremely detrimental to human beings who are social animals and require contact with other humans. Also the affects of the extreme doses of niacin were not discussed. It would have helped to have a medical person explain the affects of this dangerous practice. It goes beyond withholding medicine and therapy. Psychiatry is far from perfect. But Scientology is barbarity.
Scientology disables the able and makes the sane – insane!
And all for their own good of course according to Miscavige. The more he is resented the harder he tries. His version of Axiom 10!
Re the Introspection Rundown “no speaking to or around the psychotic person…” this is a form of torture. And in a scientific documentary I saw recently, one scientist who is also a doctor spent his life researching the mind, the brain, and what happens when people die and come back and the things they say they see. He even used himself as a guinea pig and had things done to him and reported on his experience. In the deprivation tank, he had no stimulus, no sound, only darkness and no tactile. His mind then hallucinated and made him think and act psychotic. So given this scientist/doctor’s findings, my guess is the no talking and silence around the psychotic will actually make them worse and not better.
Thanks to you and Leah and all of your guests, for all your bravery, in speaking out against the injustices this organization has inflicted on people. Sometimes I don’t know which is worse, the sufferings of those who voluntarily joined the church who have since left or the suffering it inflicts on innocent outsiders who are persecuted simply for their critical observations. Neither is fair. And it needs to be stopped.
While we all need to take responsibility for any harm our decisions inflict on others, your show is helping non-Scientologists see how easy it is for normal people to be brainwashed over time into abandoning their common sense and compassion for others, by not only a belief system bereft of true empathy, but especially a system behind it that is run like a banana republic.. And that the indoctrination is always accompanied by fear of leaving. Anything that depends on fear to maintain itself will eventually collapse. it shows an absolute bankruptcy of any true lasting moral value.
Psychiatry is far from a perfect field, as we all know. It sometimes, like other forms of Western medicine, relies too much on pharmaceuticals. And some of the primitive treatments that it has devised over the years have been just as cruel and brutal as any the CoS dreamed up. Looking at mental health the same way we look at physical health is something just beginning to be discovered. Taking the stigma away from a largely uneducated public is just as hard.
it’s still an art as much as a science. Which is probably its greatest asset. Psychiatry is not a monolithic discipline controlled by a single, untrained individual who bases his conclusions on instinct or hypotheses or ego alone. It has a certain amount of checks and balances by its professional practitioners who are free to disagree and look for better, more effective and more humane solutions to mental health issues. It can be subject to the rigors of scientific testing by its peers.That kind of evolution cannot exist in a bubble where the word of one very flawed human being is never questioned. It still has a great ways to go but neurophysiology and other disciplines are helping to make strides. Some people still hold on to old-fashioned dogmas of Freud and other early pioneers, but as a whole the discipline itself (the capitalist greed of both the insurance and pharmaceutical companies aside) is making progress and people often do get better. It doesn’t have all the answers, but it does not pretend to either.
I agree wholeheartedly that something has to officially be done to protect both people inside and outside of this organization from its vicious attacks and predatory practices. Tax-exempt status is completely undeserved (and might be a factor to help motivate the IRS to recover revenue). In addition, the abuses and trafficking activities you have outlined, in addition to the egregious harassment, and defamatory retaliation, make me think a class action suit for pain and suffering should be considered. I’m wondering if they don’t also fall under RICO statutes for racketeering. Certainly their practices should be formally investigated and the people who are whistleblowers should receive protection. I don’t know if the ACLU would be an advocate, but these people are interfering with civil liberties. We need to put pressure on our elected officials to make this a priority. Many people are already mobilizing to become more active in their government after this last election – there are all kinds of groups popping up to deluge their government representatives with complaints. And thus far, we have seen that it helps.
One piece of advice we have been given is not to send email to government offices – too easy to delete. The recommendation is to call your representative at THEIR LOCAL OFFICE (instead of their DC location) because they are less staffed, get less traffic, and the calls personally answered. Or write a letter. If enough people make a stink at their district level, they generally forward those concerns on to Washington. If enough states get involved, then it goes to a national level, where they are likely to form investigative task forces etc.
Also, I would suggest partnering with any human rights violation organizations if you have not already done so, like Amnesty International and similar places that specialize in such things. As well as anti-trafficking organizations. Or organizations that represent those who have been extorted or scammed or abused. The more common friends you have for different aspects of how the organization has abused people, the less likely they can target you individually, imo. These places can provide both cover and protection in numbers, and they may not only prove sympathetic to your cause, they may be able to assist with their own skills and experience in how to fight this effectively. CoS might be hiding behind the moniker of a religion, but their practices and philosophies put organized crime to shame. They operate like an evil corporate empire through coercion and punishment, and like true parasites, create sycophantic relationships that materially benefit a very few. CoS might be a unique organization, but its crimes are not new, and there are others who can support you.
I also like how you are trying to either dispense with, minimalize or at least clearly define all the clubby jargon, terms and acronyms for outsiders. While it’s nice to know all the little buzzwords people in CoS have invented to use, I hope it is not reinforcing their legitimacy or substance but simply neutralizing them for you. You all deserve to be able to define the world in your own terms and not be tied to the lexicon or the mental parameters of a mediocre sci-fi writer and his evil elf protégé, however clever and snarky they are. Best of luck on your continued journey. We will all be cheering you on and awaiting the next season of your show. And please give Leah a hug for me. Her warmth and down to earth honesty give a face and humanity to your cause that CoS cannot destroy with their infantile attempts at intimidation. The world loves an underdog which is why the David vs. Goliath parable was always so popular. Keep speaking truth to power!
Don’t waste your time calling or sending ANYTHING except a certified letter with (CC: Governor, Congressman, Senator, President of the United States etc)
SEND the Copies to other government officials and copy that to others…. because the US Govt is just as corrupt as Scientology.
One has to “get their ethics IN” LOL – hold them accountable and let other officials you are copying everyone so they can’t push it under their carpets loaded with criminal activity Scientology and
David Miscavige STILL get away with – even though these crimes have been reported for over a decade!
Both; the United States Government and Scientology (A CHURCH) are suppose to protect and serve the people – but they both exploit, lie and have no accountability in order to further their own means – GET RICH and HAVE POWER.
2017 is the year of the TRUTH! We are going to set beings free – Expose Scientology!
Wognited, I agree with your advice to send hard copies of each letter to multiple recipients. I have found that to be very effective on the local level, in getting the Major and City Council to address an issue. I’m sure it would help get the sttention this issue deserves, at higher levels.
+1!
Agree with your take on psychiatry vs Scientology in treating mental health issues. I found it well balanced in acknowledging the past and current deficits and positives psychiatry provides.
Although I don’t disagree with the methods you’ve outlined to encourage legal investigation into Scientology practices and crimes I am also hoping the abuses, sexual and otherwise, towards children will come further to light and be accompanied by massive lawsuits. The legal protections given to Scientology as a religion would not pertain and statutes of limitations often do not apply.
Thanks for your post.
Mike – love the show and hope we get to see more. The one thing I wish the show explained more is what people who are in the church find enriching and rewarding about it? Why do they stay in? The show explains a bit but I’d love more detail.
Keep up the great work.
Mike – Thank you so much for being a part of the show. We’ve been watching non-stop. More out of curiosity, since you didn’t make much money while in Scientology, how are you able to get by these days? I guess the reason I ask is that from personal experience it’s hard working on things you’re passionate about but still have to survive & pay the bills.
Kind of an intrusive personal question. And none of our business. 🙂
Jordan asked a personal question, but please consider how those of us on the outside see ex-Sea Org members and/ or 2nd gens. My husband and I have had countless rabbit-hole conversations and one that neither of us understand is how one makes a life after “blowing”. Admittedly, our understand is minamal. But how does one survive? It seems if someone leaves the SeaOrg they get a very small severance pay or a “Freeloaders Bill”. Am I incorrect? Then what happens to those who have a limited education or 2nd Gen raised solely within Scientology? Do they receive a diploma? Many of the readings and interviews by Scientologist are well written and spoken. I assume that is because reading is so intensive within the philosophy.
Those of us who don’t know are curious. How do you start over? I cannot imagine a lifetime, unable to save funds, and to start over. One can only assume that funds are limited, education is limited, career experience is limited. I think Jordan’s question may be poorly worded, but the answers would help those of us who have been sucked into the rabbit-hole.
And because it is personal I am willing to share that I am an ICU RN, as a second career. Any salary website can give the idea of yearly income earnings.
I have zero intention of being rude.
Here’s a good exercise for you Jordan:
1. Take your hand and start patting your head. Keep doing that until you feel comfortable.
2. Then, and only when you’re ready, take your other hand and start circling your tummy like your massaging it.
OK, now don’t worry if you can’t do it at first. Like everything else, it takes practice. But the rewards Jordan are extremely worthwhile. Check back and let us know how you’re doing.
If the above comment is a little harsh, I apologize. I’m wound a little tight these days.
As always, a difficult show to watch. Thanks for the entire series. Specific to this episode I was glad that the issue of the mentally ill and scientology’s treatment of them was highlighted. I also feel it was responsible and forthcoming for you and Leah Remini to discuss your prior interactions with the journalists.
Hopefully there will be another season.
Although adults have the right to self determine their psychiatric treatment (unless danger to self, danger to others or gravely disabled), you may want to look to find minors who are being denied psychiatric treatment. That could be considered negligence.
The usual solution for kids is drugs. And using powerful psychotropic drugs on the brains of very young children can be *very* debilitating.
Please review the TV Documentary on the Schofield children, January (Jani) and Bodhi. and their parents Michael and Susan’s battle to obtain proper treatment for their daughter “Jani” who was diagnosed at age 6 with schizophrenia.
The introspection rundown sounds like solitary confinement, which was an early treatment in insane asylums.
The strange part of it is that Scientology does not have anything to say about treating the organic nature of the brain. Clearly, LRH says here that the evil psych can harm the mind, so you’d think that someone could treat the diseases of the brain. For example, there are numerous toxic diseases of the brain, including Wilson’s disease, heavy metal poisoning, etc. For that matter, a brain tumor or meningitis could bend someone’s mind.
Per the initial single case ‘miracle’ – Did you know what was going at the time? When the person’s treatment was over, did you think he was cured? Was there a big proclamation or event after the ‘cure’? What happened to that person?
I want to recommend to people the book “Toxic Faith” as well as “Surviving Spiritual Abuse” by Jeff Van Vonderan who is an expert in helping people recover from the spiritual abuses of cults. He is well known for his work on the A/E show “Intervention” as a substance abuse recovery counselor but what many may not know is that he is well versed in how to help heal from abuses such as these and has authored several works on the subject. This may be helpful for families who have people caught in the church as well. Keep up the good work- we are behind you never give up! Don’t get discouraged- change will happen!
The basic of Introspection Rundown is that a person is introverted due to too many wrong indications. It applies to people who don’t have mental illness but a kind of breakdown or introversion. He has been told something which is terribly false but he believed it. Then he is in his head. After a while such situation can blow up and the guy might have a psychotic break, or lets call it a kind of burn out. In such a case, in the current society he is administred all kind of ant-psychotic med, while with scientology he is audited until he find the charges and is released of it.
I have seen it work very often, people coming out allright from this kind of depression made of invalidation of all kind. it’s a very generous approach, trying to avoid unecessary psychiatric treatment and drugs.
To go on a milder step. Someone who has lost someone, or suffer a big stress is liable to fall into what Hubbard call the “sad effect”. The medical response is pills, or worth ECT when the patient is really sad, sad. So, it doesn’t improve the patient in the majority of the case. Scientology handle in finding what they call the by passed charge, the mental cause. And when it is viewed the sadness, depression vanished. I was an auditor and did it so many time. I can remember a preclear, she was desperate because her boy friend left her. She was crying, crying, didn’t see how to live through it. I found many charges, and earlier similar charges until she could face the situation without being overwhelmed.
Now there was a dicey point, it takes quite a sharp auditor when the PC is borderline psychotic. And the decision has to be taken to audit him or not. It can be too much trouble. In 1976 a bulletin was written about illegal PCs, one of the case of illegal was PC had extensive psychiatric care. Unfortunatly, under Miscavige there was abuse of that. Many PCs where barred from auditing, and that caused many sorrows for those PCs. You have to know the immense hope people have with being audited. That probably was the most desired psychotherapy ever. Basically you sit in front of someone who is going to listen to you without any evaluation or invaliation and will guide you to unload your worries, upset, fear, pains. And you will end up free of those burden. This is what auditing is, I have done it so many time and seen people recover from their pain.
Of course the decision to audit or not when the case might mean trouble is a very difficult one. In the case quoted by Mike, it’s mostly childs of scientologist. For a scientologist anyone has a case, including their child. The last thing they would do would be to put them in psychiatry. They hope that with auditing he’ll find his way. And I have seen it so many time, troubled child who benefit of auditing like objectives, straightening out.
The opposition of scientology to psychiatry was from the 1950. Psychiatrist at this time were VERY barbarian. You just have to see the movie “Frances” to be convinced. Remember, homosexual in the 1950 where adressed with electric shock. Lobotomy was an acceptable cure. In this context Hubbard was the first anti-psychiatric, there were many more in the 1970 like Ronald Laing and Cooper.
The history of psychiatric abuse is much much more than scientology abuse.
So like Mc Pherson, all this case, which were not many, was very sad.
She went nuts on Clearwater’s street. They didn’t want to let her into “psychs hands”. Imagine she goes for a service at Flag and end up on a pschiatric hospital ! Now, where they were guilty was that she was very introverted after having been sec checked, usual Miscavige supression, deeply out tech.
It all wound up very badly.
But don’t jump so fast on scientology tech. iI has helped so many people. And I have known a girl, she was greatly helped by this introspection rundown.
Thanks for explaining this FG. This makes sense!!
Do you have a medical degree of any kind?
FG said, “It [use of [the introspection rundown] applies to people who don’t have mental illness but a kind of breakdown or introversion. ”
Wrong. Hubbard said that the development of the Introspection R/D means, “THIS MEANS THE LAST REASON TO HAVE PSYCHIATRY AROUND IS GONE”
ANYONE who has basic literacy in English knows what that sentence means. THERE IS NO REASON TO SEND A PERSON TO SEE A PSYCHIATRIST AS THIS RUNDOWN HANDLES ANY REASON A PERSON WOULD GO TO ONE.
Go see a deprogrammer (or a psychiatrist) before you harm someone. Hopefully someone who knows and loves you will get you sent to one.
Yes, the cheese for fixing and resolving issues can occur and does occur.
Then, when the Scientologist is all ,”wow, this stuff is great….. thanks Ron for the tech!”
Then, Ron is given the Altitude that he knows what he is doing. At that time………
TTHHHWWWAAPP!
Down goes the mouse trap and onto auditing space aliens as the cause of unwanted thoughts, feelings and conditions.
One of the most dangerous things about dangerous cults is that they have an element of actual help.
I have heard people who have gone to Toast Masters (which is free) and said it changed their life.
The difference is Toast Masters does not destroy families and ruin a persons ability to reason.
Scientology creates crazy people who believe in auditing space aliens as the highest process in Scientology.
At this point saying Scientology works is like the pusher on the street corner looking for customers.
There are safer means of self transformation out there.
My advise is
STAY AWAY FROM SCIENTOLOGY AND LISTEN TO THOSE SUPPORTING IT WITH GREAT SKEPTICISM AND SCRUTINY.
And remember, the guy who came up with this stuff, Hubbard, wished to commit suicide while he was auditing.
Remember that when Ron apologists claim Scientology works.
Hubbard hated the mental health field because they rejected him and thought he was a loon.
L Ron Hubbard dealt with the mental health field just like he dealt with Paulette Cooper.
THEY ARE CRITICS AND MUST BE DESTROYED
Those that continually defend Hubbard are under some sort of hypnotic spell.
Stuck in a Prison of Belief. Trapped by some positive things they experienced that they believe they could never have experienced outside of Scientology.
Making Scientology the “only way” to experienced positive things in life.
They hear all of the horrible things done and default to defending Hubbard with lip service to the actual atrocities.
That is what training and getting auditing in Scientology does to the mind.
STAY AWAY AND KEEP YOUR KIDS OUT OF THIS…….
THING!!
Some really insightful points.
One aspect of the “mental health field” was the government’s MK Ultra progam, in which many University departments of psychiatry were involved, both in the USA and in Canada. Google that, if you will. I believe it was that kind of thing that Hubbard was against.
You make some good points Brian but one of the unhappy aspects of life is that if you tell people not to do something a chunk of them will do exactly that. Such is life…
If we could just get the criminal aspect of Scientology actually prosecuted first and say Miscavige ripped off his throne and behind bars where he belongs the climate of Scientology could then find it’s rightful place. ie Just a memory alongside the Orange people in historical context and effectiveness
Brian, the point of not knowing there’s anything else useful or workable is the trap. And once you fall for it and join, they must keep you ignorant to any other solutions.
I’ve C/Sed and run an Introspection Rundown before – it does not work. Obviously I was misapplying the tech – LOL! The registrar didn’t think I was since he took that poor dude’s $100K inheritance. Did he even need an Introspection Rundown? – probably not (I admit it, I was pressured continually to give certain “technical estimates” by the reg & exec director). Would he have been better off living life and enjoying the outdoors? Definitely, but that doesn’t pay the bills at an organization.
Good to see you here Sir. I remember you when you were the C/S and you escaped the Fraud Scam Base. How are you?
FG – Are you serious? You are here promoting Scientology??? WTF?
FG – Firstly, Hubbard’s so called report and research on Psychosis is amateurish and cringe worthy. Research on a single subject followed by an announcement claiming a cure is magical thinking. Secondly, talking with a therapist or a trusted friend is just as likely to help motivate a person to a more productive mental space. A licensed therapist is a much safer way to negotiate the emotional landscape than Scien. ‘auditing’. A therapist is licensed by their governing state and as such, is required to put your welfare at the top of the pile. Scientology auditors do not adhere to this requirement because the welfare of Scientology comes first. Therefore if you spill your guts and say the wrong thing, expect to face a negative consequence.
*Inspiring work Mike R anfd Leah R. *
Morgue, keep in mind that many people have benefitted from various aspects of the decent application of the Scientology principles and processes as written by down by HUbbard, especially back in the 1960s and 1970s. The denial of that by some critics seems to put them in a category similar to that of fanatical climate change deniers. “WTF? Ate you serious? You are promoting climate change?” One can actually acknowledge the benefits of decent, helpful appplication of a subject without denying the evils that also can and do arise from it. Christianity is a good example. The Crusades. Witches burnt at the stake. Conversion at the point of a sword. Yet it is often recognized today as a force for good, and many decent people use it as a basis for being helpful and constructive. Read the history of that subject. Google is your friend.
And Uncle George the child molester is wonderful with cats.
This blog, this situation Val, is not here because of how great Ron and Scientology is.
This blog is here because of the terrible abuse done with Ron’s Scientology.
If you were in a therapy group of kids beaten and abused by their dads, would you break into the conversation and announce how great your dad was?
That these abused kids are not seeing the whole truth about dad?
With all of the pain that this series is revealing I do not understand how you and some can actually promoter how great Scientology is and how Ron is misinterpreted and misapplied.
It’s strange!
The Crusades were to fight back the advancement of the Islam Moors who had already conquered 2/3 of all of Europe. The Moors were beheading /torturing / hacking to death all who did not submit to Islam.
Osama bin Laden did not pick September 11 by random. September 11 is an important date for Islam.
The West has chosen to ignore the past.
Well e g.g.e., it seems that L Con’s apologists are as good at history as L. Con was at scientific research. LOL
iamvalkov, I have encountered the sort of critics you refer to, though I think there are few if any commenting here who actually take such a strident position.
What I think is often encountered, is a point of view that any benefits of Dianetics and Scientology come mainly in the earlier stages from techniques and principles adapted (without proper attribution) from other therapies and practices, that are available elsewhere at much less cost and likely in improved form. So there is a tendency to dismiss any discussion of possible benefits, that could come off as rather harsh unless explained. And there is concern that any discussion of past positive aspects, may mislead casual observers about a subject which you acknowledge has “evils.” Some also consider that the failure of independent Scientology and the “freezone” to have widespread successes or impacts, has demonstrated conclusively that there are no gains to be had outside of a high-control organization that commits those “evils” and has done more harm than good even if some benefit.
Also, it is frequently observed that those leaving Scientology often first retain some belief in Hubbard and what he claimed credit for but even that remaining loyalty usually fades with time. I think that those who believe that they have reached advanced points in that process may be frustrated with others they perceive as still stuck in the early phases, and that could seem unfairly dismissive in some cases. There may also be some who are at their own point in the process, where they may need to act in ways that might seem fanatical to the other extreme.
One major difference regarding the subject of climate change, is that there is scientific study and the expert opinions of trained researchers to refer to. The climate change deniers often resort to anecdote, such as that a cold winter disproves “global warming”. But you have only anecdotes to support your claims that “many people have benefitted” from Scientology – there is no research, and there are no scientifically trained experts in the field to evaluate evidence. If you think it through, you may find that you come out on the wrong end of that attempted comparison, and perhaps that would shed some light on the conflicts you perceive.
I am of the school of thought that there were some benefits early on. But knowing what I know now about things like confirmation bias, and understanding that the people involved were mostly a selective group who were on a trajectory to self-improvement anyway, it would not surprise me if evidence and research showed that it was all illusory.
Ideal Morgue, I am not promoting, I am just telling my experience. What is mainly wrong with scientology is Miscavige, and he is running the show since 1982. Scientology has been slowly degrading in loosing it’s own purpose and desire to help, to become a totalitarian cult.
I left, i couldn’t stay under Miscavige. Scientology was no longer itself
The ethics destructive bulletin were absolutely not in use in the 1970. Scientology did help many people. I was an auditor and knew how to do it. You must have empathy for the person you audit. Have you actually practiced scientology and at what time ? I see you not only hate the church but the whole subject. You must have been terribly dissapointed by something. I’ll be curious to know your experience.
Wow FG, you just cannot stop your lying. The destructive LRH ethics polices WERE in use in 1970. Why do you keep lying? Is it THAT important to cover up for the criminally insane Hubbard that you debase yourself so?
What is wrong with Scientology is……well, everything.
OSD, keeping it simple since .. forever. 🙂
Hubbard was FAR from being the first person to protest against lobotomies and Electroshock
I’m glad Mike (on Aftermath) included the FACT that Hubbard sent Dianetics to the governing body of American Psychiatrics (whatever it was called back then) and they rejected it as the poppycock it was
It then became a personal vendetta.
LRH apologists can claim ‘cures’ all they want, but there is never any proof other than ‘I had a preclear who was sad because she broke up with her boyfriend. I was able to ‘prove’ that she had been dumped by a French Count in the 17th century and that was the root of all her problems’
I am not trying to offend you, but you are promoting a very dangerous set of ideas. Maybe all the ‘psychotic’ guy on the Apollo needed was 10 days worth of rest because he had been working 24/7. And after that ‘psychotic break’ Hubbard had found the cure! It was called sleep. And food and water.
It’s dangerous to continue to promote this stuff. Just because you ‘know a girl who was helped’ by it means absolutely nothing without proper scientific testing
I know lots of people who were helped by speaking to their priest or pastors. Does that mean I would recommend everyone do that instead of seeking psychiatric help? Not a chance
“proper scientific testing”. Invalidation by buzzword. There is no practice in the humanities, psychological, psychiatric, religious or irreligious(humanistic), that achieves any results that have been proven by proper scientific testing. All clinical practices are all closer to “arts”, than to sciences. To say anyone was helped by any of them,in the absence of proper scientific testing, means absolutely nothing and is therefore dangerous, right? You’d put a heck of a lot of therapists of every variety out of business forthwith, I wager.
Very good post, Val.
Honestly, FG, a person is “introverted due to too many wrong indications”? How about expressing your meaning in terms that make grammatical sense? The Introspection Rundown is for people who don’t have mental illness but “A KIND OF BREAKDOWN OR INTROVERSION”. (?)
Seriously old boy, you’ll have to do better than that if you want to come across as knowing what you’re talking about to those who have been thinking rationally for years now. Besides, you can’t refer to “mental illness” because scientology denies it exists. Scientology considers it a kind of breakdown or introversion. In short, it doesn’t know shit about it.
The “charge” concept in which the solution is to recollect past experiences does have some limited viability but it’s value can easily be assessed by observing the many representatives of it. That is to say, look at the scientologists themselves and their typical wog-like behaviors. Where “getting rid of charge” therapy has been applied to people with serious mental health issues, we’ve seen more than a few tragic consequences.
rogerH., It appears to be related to point of view. When I worked in mental hospitals, we had a saying among the direct care staff – “Sometimes you can’t tell the players without a scorecard”, referring to distinguishing the psychiatrists from the patients.
I worked in the psychiatric unit at Grady Hospital in Atlanta for several years as an RN and I never witnessed the doctors behaving in any other way but professional. They were usually quite friendly too so I have no idea what you’re talking about. Perhaps you gravitated toward those who, like you, found it difficult to work with the doctors so you made them crazy by your reckoning.
“Breakdowns” are mental illness. Why would you dispense medical advice from a high school dropout? What Hubbard prescribes in his Introspection Rundown is dangerous and has caused deaths. If, by coincidence, a few people managed to survive it without ill effects…well, a broken clock is correct twice a day, no? PLEASE quit dispensing medical advice and advocating quackery. As a bipolar suffer who went undiagnosed until age 38, with family members who share the same diagnosis, I am incensed by your comment. I also have good friends who have suffered breakdowns and depression…these are serious medical conditions that require help from REAL medical professionals. Quit your advocacy of misinformation before you hurt someone.
Actually, even psychiatrists universally recognize that many similar manifestations of disorder can have very different causes. There are endogenous vs. exogenous depressions, situational reactions vs. genetic or organic disorders, etc. They are not all “mental illnesses” in the sense you seem to mean it. Calling everything a “mental illness” doesn’t clarify anything or indicate the proper responses.
FG, I won’t bother to get into a detailed analysis of why anyone who would accept conclusions from a clinical trial with only one subject (N=1) needs to word clear (M9 and M1), star rate and clay demo the phrases “scientific method” and “valid empirical research study,” but suffice it to say that the Introspection Rundown has no proven efficacy of any kind. And even worse, it has made a fair number of folks who were subjected to it a whole lot worse, instead of better.
As was the case with Brandon, when the tech fails, the PC gets blamed. Serious mental illnesses, such as schizophrenia and manic depression, do not resolve by locking people into rooms and socially isolating them. To imagine that they do (based on a clinical trial involving exactly one subject) is so ridiculously outlandish that it’s hard to put into words exactly how Dark Age that sort of thinking really is.
But putting all that aside, you capture the essential attitude of Elron and his faux religion’s ultimate orientation to its parishioners and those with serious mental illness in general when you noted, “Now there was a dicey point, it takes quite a sharp auditor when the PC is borderline psychotic. And the decision has to be taken to audit him or not. It can be too much trouble.”
Too much trouble for whom, sir? Certainly not the suffering patient or his worried family. Too much trouble, relative to the amount of money that can be made off of them? $cilons who’ve been indoctrinated into cult belief so deeply that they make these kinds of conscienceless statements are truly scary to me.
What you and other True Believers need to fully understand is that, at the point that you’re no longer earning for the cult or contributing your labor for pennies per hour anymore, then YOU will also become “too much trouble” for the cult. The fact that you’re not presently affiliated with the corporate cherch, under lil davey the despotic’s malevolent control, doesn’t mean that you’ve escaped the same kind of group mind, brain washed, cult mentality that those still in are burdened with. You’re an Indie whose Ronbot thinking is every bit as wrong-headed and dangerous as those still in the cherch.
Please, WAKE THE F*** UP and get yourself deprogrammed before you find yourself locking some poor adolescent schizophrenic into a cell and cutting them off from all social contact in the vain hope that they’ll settle out enough to audit them and find the “wrong indications” that supposedly plunged them into their psychosis. schizophrenia is biologically-based illness of the brain, which has tens of thousands of actual valid empirical research studies to support that fact…Elron was a a dangerous, pseudo-science spouting idiot who had a clinical study group with only one subject and no control group. That should say it all to anyone who knows anything about the scientific method and how valid scientific research gets conducted.
The elegance to your reasoning is a great pleasure to read.
Harpoona, as homs aside, much of your post is sensibe. Some of it I think you could profitably apply to your own thinking and opinions. I don’t have the impression that FG is in the CoS. I think with his experience, he could hang out some kind of shingle and probably do some good counselling people, as he appears to be well aware of his own limitations. Which is more than I can say about you.
Harpoona and others, my God how violent! Let me know are you ex scientologist or “never in”? I am really curious. Be reassure, I wont put anyone into a cell to cure him !
I am like you fighting those abuse mainly due to disconnection, but I cannot understand the hatred you have for Hubbard and scientology as a simple subject. Please tell your experience that I can understand.
FG, I think a lot of folks consider this an accurate reflection of the man. Anyone who can create and sanction this, instruct human beings to violence is up for fierce scrutiny.
To not see this as dangerous is dangerous in my eyes. Ron deserves all of this criticism. His infamous legacy was created by him. This link is the reason.
https://www.mikerindersblog.org/dealing-with-critics-of-scientology-the-l-ron-hubbard-playbook/
FG, thanks for sharing your experience as an auditor.
For perspective I think it has to be kept in mind that auditors, and Scientology in general, are dealing with a very selective population. People with significant psychological or psychiatric issues have been screened out of it. And people with motivation to change have been self-selected into it. Individuals from underprivileged backgrounds are also largely excluded. This makes for a group that is ideal and easy to work with, and that will readily experience improvement almost regardless of what therapy is done or even whether or not there is any treatment at all. Any real problems encountered are likely to be those typical of life’s up and downs, the occasional case of serious mental issues or illness that escaped the pre-screening or developed suddenly (for example schizophrenia often has an onset around the age of 20), and in the case of Dianetics and Scientology those originating with the therapy and process itself (such as “overrunning” and organizational abuse like “heavy ethics”). If “introspection” seems to work with people in such limited circumstances it really doesn’t say much about how widely applicable and effective the process actually is. It’s also hard to gauge the effectiveness if any of auditing, though it probably provides people some of the same benefits as any talk therapy and you did likely help people more than if they had done nothing at all. It is typical of auditing and any talk therapy that we hear reports that individuals were most satisfied and felt they received the most benefit when working with someone who was a good listener and who exhibited encouraging traits like empathy.
To add to what someone else already noted, opposition to psychiatry and some of its methods goes back decades before Hubbard started his attacks. Some of the things that he opposed were being challenged within the psychiatric and psychological professions themselves. I decided to have a look into the facts around the sensational practice of lobotomy, which turns out to have been on the decline in the late 1940s before Hubbard even started writing and ranting about the subject, and which over a short history amounted to only around 18,000 total operations in the US (hardly the casually applied horror that Hubbard painted if still a tragedy).
I would agree with you that today medication is too often dispensed in lieu of real therapy. But that is mostly done by frontline physicians in lieu of sending patients for therapy due to a combination of human demand for quick fixes and cost pressures in the current health care system. It’s almost too bad that the mental health professional can’t get people and their families to empty their pockets for individual counseling the way that Scientology does, or society probably really would be better off.
What an AMAZING show Mike & Leah! First time posting here. I was in for over 30 years and have been out for 8. My daughter, who was unfortunately raised in the DESTRUCTIVE CULT, is currently living in the Canadian Arctic with her husband with my 2 beautiful twin grand-daughters. With limited cable and internet access she somehow managed to see the A&E show and HOLLY SH*T… She said to me: “MOM… NOW I UNDERSTAND… THIS SHOW HAS HELPED ME HEAL WOUNDS I DIDN’T KNOW I STILL HAD.”
That is wonderful. Thank you for expressing this. It is what makes this worthwhile.
Wooooow! That is amazing! And wonderful. <3 Sending much love and good thoughts to your family, and hoping for good things for your daughter while she continues the healing.
Izzy, congrats on getting out! Like me, you got your old life back! Life is your choice now. And it’s great your daughter watched the show!
“I have made a technical breakthrough which possibly ranks with the major discoveries of the Twentieth Century. It is certainly the greatest advancement of 1973”
I’m still stunned he could make delusionallly grand statements like this and have them accepted by ANYONE.
Remember, these people are indoctrinated to believe every word the man said or wrote. He is sometimes described as the Pope of Scientology. But really he’s more like Peter, Paul and all the others who wrote the Bible because he wrote theirs. Watch one of the recordings of their “public” events (events for church members). It’s all grand delusion.
I applaud you, Ms. Remini, and others involved in the courageous effort to expose the fraud and abuses perpetrated by the CoS. I have been following these stories for fifteen years, and I am encouraged that the deceit is becoming increasingly exposed to a wider audience. Keep up the good work!
I feel the winds of change blowing, you guys are on a roll. I truly felt at the end of this episode that both you and Leah along with all the other people who have shared their stories are going to force things to change. If DM is feeling nervous or scared, he should be. The tides are turning and karma’s a.. well, you know.
Great show! I am sorry to see it coming to an end. Kate Bornstein’s book was the first one I read. Will you be speaking with her during the Reddit show or anytime after? Thanks.
Ever since I seen Leah Remini and her going public about her leaving the church. I have been interested and wanted to know why or what the Scientology was all about and why they called themselves a church something so sacred to people and religion. I have been glued to your guyses episodes and I’m kind of sad and that is coming to an end I hope you guys have a next season thanks suppose these people for what they truly are like you are doing now. I keep you all in my prayers Mr. Mike Rinder. You are such a brave man and I pray your children come back to you I believe that they will eventually. Keep going in I am behind you. I will be one of those people that will be rooting you guys and cheering you on. I feel God allowed you all to go through this. So you could be the ones to lead the his people out. Out into the light. Bless you all.
I am postulating for a second season. The first season was absolutely awsome, and I feel a great honor in being part of the Anti Scientology Cult (ASC) at a time like this.
Thank you, Mike and Leah!
I’ve just got to say, I’m sure glad I’m not fighting against Leah.
No kidding! She has fire in her belly. They taught her a little too well in the art of confrontation.
“She’s got a sun in that belly…and I pity the fool who messes with that Sun.
Well Valerie – Don’t start a cult and $ell $piritual Freedom, bankrupt members, shatter families, abuse people, attack critics, sit on billions whilst members work as slaves…
Then attack critics, blame the victims you victimized
Then lie about it
and you should be good!
Well, damn, gotta change my whole life … oh wait, I forgot, I don’t do those things. Phew!
That was quite a show. There is no way you will not get season two.. no way!
And to the Reisdorf family…….. you guys are so great, Good People. I hope and pray that something gets done from this injustice.
This cannot be left as is…. no way!
In addition to the FBI and IRS, DHS, ICE, and the State Department should be on the ‘write to’ list. There was a lot of discussion on The Underground Bunker about Human Trafficking, and the relavent laws, affer Tony O.’s article “Talking to the FBI agent who canceled her talk at Scientology’s ‘mecca’”. And many of the ways $cientology treats people, e.g., confiscating passports, fall far afoul of Human Trafficking laws. And it’s illegal in and of itself.
The interesting thing about Human Trafficking laws is THERE IS NO STATUTE OF LIMITATIONS. So $cientology can’t play it’s usual delaying games to run out the clock.
You and Leah have never asked for money from viewers, but there is a pent up desire from many people to get involved. Please consider how your large audience might come together to do something meaningful. I live near all the major facilities in Clearwater, and it breaks my heart to see these people living such uninformed lives.
Please let us know how we can contribute beyond talking to politicians.
Don’t TALK – WRITE LETTER’S and then CERTIFY THE LETTERS sending a copy to other Govt officials stating they may get sued for failing to protect the people of this Country!
We need Organization – Mike – a Central Files – so to speak
Where we can send in copies of our letters to Grand Central SP Station.
How do we Organize? Can I send you an email?
No! Do NOT do this: “sending a copy to other Govt officials stating they may get sued for failing to protect the people of this Country!”
Your letter will get shit canned for you being a lunatic or threatening.
DO send letters to your congress person and Senators (State and Fed level) informing them of the abuses and asking for urgent action.
Mike I saw a tweet where someone expressed fear to even comment. My logical mind said: 1) There’s not enough PI’s in the world to come after all of us wogs who post our support in Social Media in favor of #ScientologyTheAftermath & think it’s a cult. Am I right or would they come after all of us for such tweets?
NOt a chance they could come after everyone. It’s a flea on an elephant scenario.
Not to worry RSL,
I thought that I would be targeted based on the folks from OSA the cult sent out to handle me. It didn’t matter to me if they did, so I sent them my phone number just in case Dave had lost it or something.
Since I never heard anything I could only deduce that the cult had decided I was such a small being that they would not waste resources on me. Whatever.
I remain busy making sure the public persons in my small community are aware of the cults influence. The CST owns a compound in Tuolumne, two miles from my home. I’m glad they are close because I can keep an eye on them. They recently purchased another fifty acres to protect their flank on the South side. The Tuolumne utility district is a neighbor of theirs so Jane McNarin (CST big whig) does her best to maintain friendly relations with the natives.
They hire local contractors to help them with the work around the compound and Jane considers that they all are big supporters of $cientology because they ‘don’t talk poorly about it’. She also thinks that they read the cult books and are about to route onto services (somewhere) at any moment. Truth is, the contractors know the scene with the cult ……………………. they know they are rich, they want things done well and they want it done now. They enjoy the pay in this small town. They say the right things to Jane and she remains happy, well, as happy as she can be given the circumstances.
I digress.
Yo Dave,
In case you have lost it (which we both know you have – definately – lost it good buddy) have your minions give me a call sometime. 209-928-4822 …. leave a message if necessary. Or have Jane or one of your property managers stop by for a friendly visit.
I have sent you my address before and I still live in the same house where you used to send your regges at all hours of the day. If you need it, have OSA give me a call. And don’t forget to watch the show on A&E. For this one you will need those copper rods since you can’t really get away with beating people these days.
I’m concerned if I voice opposition publicly they’d force a disconnection on someone I know in the church, forcing her to disconnect from me.
What a great series! I’m in awe of the strength shown by ms. Remini and mr. Rinder. It can’t be easy to be so critical of your way of life for many many years. Seeing the episode where mr. Rinder speaks of the episode that put him over the edge, I can’t help but be amazed at the change in appearance of him! He looked so stressed, fearful, depressed, worn out, utterly a broken soul. He now looks happy, calm, and full of hope and pride in his courage to speak up to such injustices and also I think he perhaps feels as if a huge weight of guilt and shame has been lifted from his shoulders. Well done to all involved in this show, in the protests and in any other actions that help to expose this cult. You are all amazing people!
Hi Mike – My wife Wanda and I have watched every episode with enthusiasm. You and Leah and all associated with this reporting are TRUE HEROES! Stay the course and be brave! Many of us here in Canada are behind you, as it has become daily conversations at work and we eagerly wait to see how the powers that be, will intervene.
Mike, Thank you for your awesome work, and for this community, in fighting and exposing these atrocities… With all the abuse in Hemet, is it common for SO members to end up in the local ER? Is there a sophisticated hospital onsite to treat/hide the abuse?
Also, why are all the homes next to Hemet left to fall apart and deteriorate? Is there some psych-ops being used on the SO to make them think the world is falling apart around them?
This was, without a doubt, the most moving show to date. I’ve read the entire 7-part series written by Lois Reisdorf and posted here (and to anyone who hasn’t read it, you owe yourself the opportunity to hear from her in her own words and in full about her own experiences in Scientology) and still was unprepared for the power of this episode. Brava, Leah and Lowie, and bravo, Mike and Brandon. If anything is going to convince our Congressional representatives to listen, this is it.
My husband just got home and I’m going to hold him and be held by him for a while. I need that. May you be heard by all the right people, all of you.
Hi Mike, as a former child-in-scientology, I find the work you and Leah are doing to be extremely healing. My family (parents, siblings, cousins, aunt, and in-laws) sat around after Christmas discussing the A&E Documentary and your blog. We realized that watching/reading it all has had different effects on each of us. My sister finally forgave my parents for putting us through scientology – the documentary especially helped her understand what my parents went through. My aunt, the one on the outside watching her sister’s family get sucked down the drain of crazy town, was able to understand how they got sucked in, in the first place; and she was able to appreciate the fact that we were only in it for TWO years, not 25 or 30. My mom and dad have been able to give up some of their guilt and shame for being in it. And I have been overwhelmed with gratitude that we got out when we did, with our family in tact. Keep up this extremely brave and important work, for it is certainly the Lord’s work!
Amazing work. I’m stunned each episode I watch. Question, what work do scientologists actually do? Leah talks about the “work” she was committed to doing to make the world better. What was that? How do they make the world a better place? Also do you find anybody that still believes in the tenants of Scientology but just couldn’t handle being part of the religion because of the disconnect from family and friends?
Donating a lot of money to IAS and Social betterment groups. That’s how most Scn help out.
Jackie, I am an “almost in”, close to a “never-in” who was very interested in Scientology in my youth took a couple of basic courses, and did a lot of reading. At the time I was working in psychiatric settings. Back then, in the 1960s and 1970s, Scxientology was all about traing to be an Auditor, which was basically a good listener who helped people unburden themselves. That is what we saw as the benefit and contribution to improving lives in the society. working in psychiatry, I saw the potential benefit. So I skipped the over-the-top self-promotional statements Hubbard made. I never “joined the church”, not being a “joiner” but more of a “freethinker”, which many early Scientologists were. Those kind are long since gone from the CoS, it looks like to me. Virtually all the ones I met, are gone. As far as donating money to the IAS etc. that was seen as a scam bu upper management, and helped get people to leave. To my eyes, what the CoS is currently doing, has nothing to do with Scientology as we saw it, and th epotential we saw in it.
iamvalkov, I am with you…
Oh sure, LRH found a cure for Psychosis based on what supposedly helped ONE person. That’s so scientific. It isn’t even common sense!
Psychosis is rarely an act of the will and, most often, the direct result of extreme trauma unless there exists structural variations in the brain such as schizophrenia which is observable using modern fMRI scans. Hubbard may have been biased by his own trauma, which is understandable but unreliable science. Hubbard was delusional and grandiose; classically pathological. Most clinicians I know would define his attributes as sociopathic or possibly schizophrenic in nature. Schizophrenic are often paranoid, suspicious of governments, believe they receive direct communication from a dirty and rarely believe they need therapy. Psychosis , on the other hand, occurs naturally either in response to trauma triggers or from sleep deprivation. Humanistic clinicians are trained to listen carefully to the psychotic episode as it gleans information to the trauma which is often at the heart of the psychotic break.
Even in schizophrenia we find psychotic breaks are preceded by extended periods of sleep deprivation.
So, basically, Hubbard simply stumbled on what we already know about psychosis: If a person gets several days or weeks of increased sleep, their brains go back to proper functioning. It is a no-brainer.
Pardon the pun.
Direct communication from a deity, not dirty. I hate autocorrect.
<3
Thank you for your post Dr. Taheny. I appreciate your knowledge.
Dr T, you actually say the same thing than Hubbard. The psychotic break comme from many traumatic events containing invalidation, making smaller, heart breaking etc.. At one point he is blowing up. The job of the auditor is to find those points and relieves the person of it.
Of course this is limited to persons currently sane but who suffer a breakdown.
People with chronic mental illness wouldn’t respond well to auditing.
Sadly enough on this blog none has any idea of what auditing is. They just identify the subject of scientology with the church, which is a complete travesty of scientology.
If one would have made such organization with psychoanalyze it would have had the same result.
Loving the SA accent Lowie!
The Leah Remini: Scn The Aftermath series is really blowing the top off like no other documentary on Scn. The episode on Events was a jaw dropper. I had no clue it was all smoke and mirrors. This new information combined with the true identity of L. Ron Hubbard makes Scn the greatest con that I have known. So many people (including myself) have been cheated out of life. Especially those of us who joined the S.O. And staff. We sacrificed so much only to know it was all for the pockets and twisted enjoyment of LRH and now DM. I am glad A&E will work with Leah for a second season.
I’ve never been so addicted to a program in about 7 years. We dumped all TV/Cable in out lives.
I went back and bought a sling tv temporary license. This is crazy good entertainment. It’s got it all. A great bad guy. Horrible injustice and reluctant warriors!
And Leah is the Viking Sheild Maiden: From Brooklyn…… its perfect.
I have never been in Scientology so please forgive me if I sound naïve. I’ve been following you for about 2 years now. I’m wondering if there will be anything on:
1).How Miscavige gained his power. Pat and Annie Broker. 2). How they became tax exempt. (if I read correctly, they were going to sue anyone that could make a difference unless they sided with them).
Gotta go…THE show is about to start!!!!
I’m just an observer, but it appears to me that this show isn’t so much a history lesson on Scientology (although that would be interesting too) but instead is a human story showing how the cult has affected people. Every story humanizes $cientologies victims. The thing the show did best is to get away from looking at the ridiculousness and the how could “foolish people” believe this crap. It’s beside the point. But it sounds like you read the books that did explain many of these things.
in The Profit, the movie Stacy Brooks played a nurse in, I seem to remember Hubbard went nuts when his second wife tried to have him committed to a mental asylum and he tried to have HER committed and could not get it done so he took Alexis. Am I remembering that correctly?
Is that when his crazy hate of psychiatry went into overdrive? I know he was pissed that the AMA did not support Dianetics and that started his hatred of psychs, correct?
katscrisis, I would sum up HUbbard’s antagonism in a couple of different ways. First off, he said himself in one or more of his early lectures, that his choice of psychiatry as an “enemy”for the group he was creating, was arbitrary. One of the “causes” the group would espouse would be an antagonism towards psychiatry. The second part of my answer would be, Why choose psychiatry as an “enemy” for the group? That has to do with the state of psychiatry back in the those days. To get a picure of what kinds of activities psychatry was involved in back then, Google “MK Ultra”. That will fill you in, on what about 1950s sychiatry Hubbard disliked. Many of his objections were valid. I worked in psychiatry in the 1960s and could see what he was talking about.
Posting this for a broader perspective on the subject. There have been “psychiatric diagnoses” of Jesus done at various times over the years. Here is one response from Christians: http://www.bible.ca/psychiatry/psychiatry-atheistic-anti-christian-jesus-mental-patient-paranoid-schizophrenic.htm
By the way I love the show! You guys are doing a wonderful job and I hope you guys do more shows. You are the voice in the wilderness that speaks and must be heard! Now is the time for this giant to be brought down.
How does Scientology see things like autism? It’s not psychological but neurological. How did the church make John Travolta and his family feel about their oldest son who died?
I also wonder this. What about a person born with Down Syndrome with a secondary diagnosis of autism? Or, for that matter any person born with a disability ?
What would happen to a Scientologist who became brain damaged in an accident and no longer had their original capabilities??
Simple answer: the individuals would be blamed for pulling it in. It’s the only answer they have. And having worked directly with quite a few Downs Syndrome individuals, I found them to be the most loving and caring people I’ve ever known.
There are several threads about the subject over on ESMB. In the one below Voltaire’s Child says that Hubbard didn’t have an opinion about it.
http://www.forum.exscn.net/showthread.php?22771-Autism-amp-Scientology
Great question! Basically, autism is not considered by $cn parents. It’s a psych label and it doesn’t exist. The kids are just “out of PT (present time) and need objectives.”
Thanks to both you and Leah for exposing the dangerous practices of scientology. One area you need to improve upon is giving practical advice to those with loved ones in scientology. I have a loved one on the brink of moving to Clearwater. She’s been promised to make it to Clear by June. How do I have a conversation with her to convince her otherwise? How to I acknowledge the positive elements of scientology, while leveraging the negative elements to dissuade her from following through with her plan? The show and your blog seem geared toward exposing scientology’s abhorrent practices, and you do a bang up job. But what do we do if someone is caught in their clutches?
FH, It sounds like a better question there might be: How do I keep a loved one from falling into the cult’s clutches?
Is that, move to CW and go clear as a public person, or become a $ea Orgy member and the cult’s promising her that they will see that she’s audited to clear by June? The former just seems like a bad waste of money, but if it’s the latter, then that is a very dangerous and pressing concern.
Getting some expert local advice sure couldn’t hurt. In fact, if you’re anywhere near a mid- to large-size metropolitan center, then there’s likely to be someone around who ran away to the “circus” in CW, became disillusioned and routed out (or blew) who’s now back on local org lines. Talking to folks who’ve been there, done that, is essential research for anyone contemplating a big move like that.
I can tell you that my pre-clear friend told me she would be “clear” by Dec 31st 2015, her clearly stated goal after having been ordered to retake much of her pre-clear course work. As of Jan 2017, she has not made it. When I asked her why in Sep of 2016 before she disconnected from me, it was always the same excuse as the year went on, her twin was holding things up, they found things in her past life that had to be attended to, blah blah blah. I don’t mean to bear bad news, but my pre-clear friend is now taking so much course work in SoCal area that she hasn’t seen any of her four grandchildren since the summer. For the first time, she did not see her daughter nor her grandchildren as she admitted to her daughter her coursework kept her too occupied as she wanted to go “clear” finally. Of course, they are sucking out the money of her since she’s public. Mockingbird on The Bunker has a lot of great stuff in his website/blog as to how to talk to scientologists. I was disconnected because I asked questions and pressed her on such things as to wanting answers from someone as to why scientology would pay to settle so many lawsuits including millions to the family of Lisa McPherson is Miscavige really had nothing to do with her murder (he did). I nearly got to pre-clear by quoting certain of Hubbard’s policy letters and then asking how should I interpret them if not literally. That caused her so much cognitive dissonance she told me to contact the OSA (which I did try, but no one returns my calls, lol). I then offered her 10K for coursework if a single member of her “religion” would answer questions for the record. Of course, no one responds. I was immediately disconnected from my two business partners who will never return what I put into our once burgeoning business now bankrupted because the scilons were running it behind the scenes (I did not know that until it was too late.) Tell her you love her and ask her about Hubbard’s own words. It might make her think for herself.
Sounds like you know some of what I’m going through. I can be as argumentative as the best of them, but this mode has never brought progress. I do discuss LRH’s words with her, and it’s here I make the most ground, but anytime I point out the wrong ways of others in scientology it’s always a person misapplying “tech,” never the doctrine itself.
The two following books discuss this.
“Cults Inside Out: How People Get In and Can Get Out” by Rick Ross and “Combatting Cult Mind Control: The #1 Best-selling Guide to Protection, Rescue, and Recovery from Destructive Cults” by Steven Hassan.
It’s not easy, unfortunately.
It is doubtful that going clear, provided that is what she is audited towards, will in any way hurt her. It may in fact be good for her. Any attempt to talk her out of going could well result in her going out of communication with you. Suggest you simply remain a good friend. The Church will mess her around at some stage and that is the time to be there..An old timer
Yes, this makes a lot of sense.
http://www.xenu.net/archive/infopack/16.htm
That link may be helpful. I hope she doesn’t go.
This is a helpful article with advice I follow in my stronger moments. I did my own stint in Scientology, but quickly saw through the veil. My experience makes it hard to listen non-judgmentally at times.
Chris Shelton interviewed a woman named Rachel Bernstein, a therapist, whose specialty is helping people who have been in cults and other abusive relationships.
She gives advice about maintaining the relationship so you can help the person leave.
This is helpful. I’m watching these tonight.
I would also recommend these, and also the series Chris did where he interviewed his mom. She was on the outside, he on the inside, and they talk about what she did right, and what she did wrong, in her attempt to help him while he was in. It’s good stuff, with important insights.
Thanks for the responses, all. Sounds like this just needs to play itself out. She’s gung-ho and deflects and rationalizes every concern raised. I hope she becomes disillusioned earlier rather than later. It’s a tough thing to watch happen.
Wonderfully written. I am obsessively following all of this and greatly appreciate everything you are all doing to correct the condition of the abused and exploited.
Thanks again for all you do! I was going to ask the same question as that above. I think it’s clear that LRH was suffering from some sort of mental illness.
I look forward to hearing about what you and Leah have planned for the future. Keep up this important work!
“LRH was suffering from some form of mental illness”?
Ya Think?
Hi Mike – first, thank you for what you’re doing. I saw a comment on Twitter tonight that LRH was a paranoid schizophrenic. Was this true and was he diagnosed? Is this why he hated psychiatrists so much? I know that it’s known he used drugs, but I never knew about the schizophrenia. I hope you gain even more moment with this movement!
AFAICT he was not diagnosed, which is not to say he was or wasn’t. More information about his life can be found online, and in the books in the link below. Also, you may want to watch the Going Clear documentary.
http://whyweprotest.wikia.com/wiki/Chronology_of_publications_on_Scientology
Of course you can also find more about him on the church’s websites, but the info they have over there should be taken with, well, quite some grains of salt.
Mrs Shark – Whatever would make you suspect that L Ron Hubbard was a paranoid schizophrenic? You forgot Parasitical Crazy Loon – who attached himself to people’s wallets and created his own “Other Administrated” admiration to survive.
L Ron Hubbard was a MONSTER!
L Ron Hubbard wasn’t actually diagnosed as a paranoid schizophrenic and there’s lot to confirm he wasn’t. If anything, L Ron Hubbard was just your typical bad-tempered, violent, narcissistic criminal, although he did go potty in the end, most likely a form of dementia which creeps up on some people as they age. Despite all of his looney-toon rantings about psychiatry and big pharma, its interesting to note that L Ron Hubbard’s death was eased by the liberal application of the psych drug Vistaril. Significant quantities of it were found to be in his system by the coroner who carried out the post-mortem examination.
To be accurate, the coroner’s report says, “trace of Hydrxyzine (Vistaril) detected on blood specimen submitted”. Dr. Denk did inform the coroner that the only medications he was administering were Vistaril and vitamin B12.
The autopsy report is available at
http://www.autopsyfiles.org/reports/Other/hubbard,%20l.r._report.pdf